why don't high school prospects use HGH?

[Ca$H]

I mean if you are a guy like Nate Robinson and notice that you stop growing
when you are in 10th grade then why not take HGH before your epipyhseal plates close? If Nate Robinson could have grown to 6-6 then he would be a perennial all star. Even a guy like Julius Randle could still grow. He is 6-9 which is decent but if he grew to 7-0 then he would be dominant. Paul George and Kobe grew 2 inches after entering the NBA and the added length has helped them big time.

[christian1923]

Cause it's illegal :no:

[bdreason]

Because it's illegal and expensive.


And just like steroids, there are high school players using HGH. The difference is HGH is much more expensive (~$3,000 per month).

[hateraid]

Lol, there's no magic height pill.

HGH = growth in body composition and recovery, not height

[inclinerator]

they do? ur naive if u dont think alot have started using since hs,
football, baseball, basketball etc

[Ca$H]

Lol, there's no magic height pill.

HGH = growth in body composition and recovery, not height

Growth hormone acts on growth hormone receptors on Liver cells causing it to produce and secrete IGF-1 which acts at the epiphyseal plates provided that it isn't closed.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

I mean if you are a guy like Nate Robinson and notice that you stop growing
when you are in 10th grade then why not take HGH before your epipyhseal plates close? If Nate Robinson could have grown to 6-6 then he would be a perennial all star. Even a guy like Julius Randle could still grow. He is 6-9 which is decent but if he grew to 7-0 then he would be dominant. Paul George and Kobe grew 2 inches after entering the NBA and the added length has helped them big time.
You talk like it's cheap as getting whey protein from GNC...:coleman:

Pharmaceutical HGH is thousands of dollars for even a month's worth of supply and that's with a prescription. Players don't need more than 3-4 IU's a day for recovery and the average quality Pharma GH is around $10-15 per IU. That's $40+ per DAY, shit ain't cheap son.

[chocolatethunder]

I'm 41 and I graduated in 1990 and when I was in High School I knew about six-10 players, most of whom weren't even good enough to play DIII and barely good enough to play high school (this was football but a few did play basketball also or at some point). So to answer your questions, yes high school players use PEDs. They are certainly more available now then they were in the late 1980s when I was in school.

[ZenMaster]

They do, most NBA players in the NBA now have probably used it in high school and/or college.

The prices mentioned here seem very steep though, I know a former player of mine was offered it for just under 2 grand, and that was for a 6 month cycle :confusedshrug:
That wasn't in the US though.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

They do, most NBA players in the NBA now have probably used it in high school and/or college.

The prices mentioned here seem very steep though, I know a former player of mine was offered it for just under 2 grand, and that was for a 6 month cycle :confusedshrug:
That wasn't in the US though.
They're steep because that's the price for legitimate pharmaceutical grade GH. Your friend probably got sold Chinese-made generic-grade GH which is nothing compared to the real thing and for the price you mentioned, that sounds about right.

If guys like LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Adrian Peterson, Vernon Davis, etc are really on GH, I can guarantee they're not taking no generic-grade bullshit. It's all pharma-grade HGH straight from the doctor/hospital.

Most high school kids get by with superior genetics anyway and possibly some steroids and over the counter prohormones (legal designer steroids), HGH isn't needed until college and the pro-level.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

Lol, there's no magic height pill.

HGH = growth in body composition and recovery, not height
Actually certain brands of HGH are made specifically to stimulate growth spurts in growth deficient children just like other brands are made for recovery for things such as severe burns, bone and joint injuries, etc. Different rDNA structures in the HGH is made for different functions.

It's simple: HGH into the human body signals the liver to produce IGF-1 (insulin growthlike factor), the ingredient that causes growth in bone structure, new muscle fibers, and faster recovery in skin, organs, and muscles.

Pure IGF-1 itself is even more expensive than HGH, I mean that's the gold pot you really want to be taking to turn yourself into superman. That shit will cost you literally thousands of dollars every few DAYS.

[Inactive]

I'm sure some do. There are a lot of stories of NBA players having remarkable late teens growth spurts. Not just the big guys either. Chris Paul was 5'2 as a sophomore, but he was a barefoot 6' at the draft.

[ZenMaster]

They're steep because that's the price for legitimate pharmaceutical grade GH. Your friend probably got sold Chinese-made generic-grade GH which is nothing compared to the real thing and for the price you mentioned, that sounds about right.

If guys like LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Adrian Peterson, Vernon Davis, etc are really on GH, I can guarantee they're not taking no generic-grade bullshit. It's all pharma-grade HGH straight from the doctor/hospital.

Most high school kids get by with superior genetics anyway and possibly some steroids and over the counter prohormones (legal designer steroids), HGH isn't needed until college and the pro-level.

I talked with a medical student about helping with advice if I had players who wanted to use it. He would not help getting it though and didn't really know the prices it goes for.
The reason I looked into help from him is because I've now had a quite a few players asking about HGH and if it could help them.
I have a hard time with it though because they're kids and have talked alot with them about it.
Generally I don't like the idea of taking it unless you have a good chance to go pro and potentially could make a lot of money.
Overrall IMO taking HGH as a young player isn't the worst thing you could do as long as you don't over do it, one round of 6 months when you're around 16 should be enough. I'd actually like to try and do one round myself and see what it does.

The problems with HGH is that when people who take it are so focused on their size and apperance, they "get used" to being how big they ever got with HGH that they have to keep taking it in order to maintain their body to their satisfaction.

[inclinerator]

I'm sure some do. There are a lot of stories of NBA players having remarkable late teens growth spurts. Not just the big guys either. Chris Paul was 5'2 as a sophomore, but he was a barefoot 6' at the draft.
chris paul is not 6 feet, maybe in shoes

[LA_Showtime]

I'm guessing most high school athletes take pro-hormones. You can buy those on the Internet or at GNC. That seems a lot easier than trying to find a doctor to prescribe you HGH or shopping at some foreign pharmacy.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

I talked with a medical student about helping with advice if I had players who wanted to use it. He would not help getting it though and didn't really know the prices it goes for.
The reason I looked into help from him is because I've now had a quite a few players asking about HGH and if it could help them.
I have a hard time with it though because they're kids and have talked alot with them about it.
Generally I don't like the idea of taking it unless you have a good chance to go pro and potentially could make a lot of money.
Overrall IMO taking HGH as a young player isn't the worst thing you could do as long as you don't over do it, one round of 6 months when you're around 16 should be enough. I'd actually like to try and do one round myself and see what it does.

The problems with HGH is that when people who take it are so focused on their size and apperance, they "get used" to being how big they ever got with HGH that they have to keep taking it in order to maintain their body to their satisfaction.

I talked with a sports physician who belived realistically 9/10 NBA players have used HGH in high school.
Unless you have a serious growth deficiency, it really isn't worth it to take HGH for several reasons:

1). You have to be in your teens (I'm talking 12-16ish)

2). It's absurdly expensive even with a prescription (ex. the average price for Saizen, a top pharmaceutical brand that is very popular among athletes and esp pro bodybuilders is around $1,000 for 120 IU's and that's a black market price. Say you inject 3-4 IU's per day and that's a relatively low dose, you're talking more than $30 a day. Without a prescription, good luck to your bank account

3). You have to be on for LONG periods of time to see any real growth (especially in height) and changes. I'm not talking 6 months, I'm talking a year-two years and longer. It's a hormone and yes it's the real thing but it's not a magic pill and won't transform you overnight or within months. It takes long periods time with consistent DAILY injections, just like steroids. Shits not a magic pill.

4). The whole point of taking HGH is to signal your liver to produce IGF-1 which is really the main protein that causes the growth and recovery that you want, and at such a young age especially during puberty, your IGF-1 levels will be at its peak, higher than they will ever be in your lifetime so it's not worth the money

5). Athletes take HGH along with steroids, insulin, and other stimulants. They never take one by itself, it'd be a waste. All of these drugs work in synergy with each other, you need steroids with your HGH injections in order to maximize your gains out of both. Steroids increase the size of your muscle fibers while HGH grows new fibers to soak in the steroids that you're injecting. Insulin shuttles nutrients directly to your muscle fibers post workout and dramatically increases protein synthesis and muscle recovery, you take HGH with it to prevent fat gain caused by the insulin and to prevent diabetes.

6). If you want an edge on the competition (on the HS level), take steroids instead. It's cheaper and it will deliver the results you want: speed, athleticism, explosiveness, endurance, etc). Take EPO, insulin, etc. If you're already 5'10ish by the time you're 16-17, don't worry about taking HGH. Get enough sleep and eat right, you will still grow until your early 20's. I went from 6' to 6'2 from 18 to 20.

[LA_Showtime]

Taking human growth hormone doesn't automatically mean some 5'5 kid will grow to be 6'4. :roll:

[Mirko Cro Cop]

Taking human growth hormone doesn't automatically mean some 5'5 kid will grow to be 6'4. :roll:
Exactly, HGH was made to cure growth deficiency in children and helping them grow like a normal human being. It wasn't made to turn people into super humans.

[D.J.]

High school athletes most definitely take PEDs. I went to high school in the mid 90's. I personally knew of 2 kids on the football team who were taking steroids. Granted PEDs like steroids and HGH are likely most common in football, but athletes in other sports take them too. And the problem is the coaches and higher ups at the school don't care as long as you're winning. In a sport like football or baseball, the coach gets axed if they start losing regularly.

[ZenMaster]

Unless you have a serious growth deficiency, it really isn't worth it to take HGH for several reasons:

1). You have to be in your teens (I'm talking 12-16ish)

2). It's absurdly expensive even with a prescription (ex. the average price for Saizen, a top pharmaceutical brand that is very popular among athletes and esp pro bodybuilders is around $1,000 for 120 IU's and that's a black market price. Say you inject 3-4 IU's per day and that's a relatively low dose, you're talking more than $30 a day. Without a prescription, good luck to your bank account

3). You have to be on for LONG periods of time to see any real growth (especially in height) and changes. I'm not talking 6 months, I'm talking a year-two years and longer. It's a hormone and yes it's the real thing but it's not a magic pill and won't transform you overnight or within months. It takes long periods time with consistent DAILY injections, just like steroids. Shits not a magic pill.

4). The whole point of taking HGH is to signal your liver to produce IGF-1 which is really the main protein that causes the growth and recovery that you want, and at such a young age especially during puberty, your IGF-1 levels will be at its peak, higher than they will ever be in your lifetime so it's not worth the money

5). Athletes take HGH along with steroids, insulin, and other stimulants. They never take one by itself, it'd be a waste. All of these drugs work in synergy with each other, you need steroids with your HGH injections in order to maximize your gains out of both. Steroids increase the size of your muscle fibers while HGH grows new fibers to soak in the steroids that you're injecting. Insulin shuttles nutrients directly to your muscle fibers post workout and dramatically increases protein synthesis and muscle recovery, you take HGH with it to prevent fat gain caused by the insulin and to prevent diabetes.

6). If you want an edge on the competition (on the HS level), take steroids instead. It's cheaper and it will deliver the results you want: speed, athleticism, explosiveness, endurance, etc). Take EPO, insulin, etc. If you're already 5'10ish by the time you're 16-17, don't worry about taking HGH. Get enough sleep and eat right, you will still grow until your early 20's. I went from 6' to 6'2 from 18 to 20.

That's good stuff, you seem to know what you're talking about. Personally I just coach, don't know about stuff like these except the things I hear and sometimes read.

A couple things though. It's not about gaining an edge on the competition in high school, it's about being able to go pro and the money that can bring at the higher levels. And if somebody else on your level is doing something to get them bigger and stronger you need to be doing the same. Doesn't matter that you grow from 6' to 6'2 from 18 to 20 when somebody else is going from 6'3 to 6'5 and plays your position and is about as skilled, you WILL be behind.

[MavsSuperFan]

You are naive if you think zero HS prospects are being given PEDs.
With all the money at stake

[Inactive]

chris paul is not 6 feet, maybe in shoeshttp://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chris-Paul-14/

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5352/nashpaul.jpg

[D.J.]

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chris-Paul-14/

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5352/nashpaul.jpg


That line isn't even at the top of Nash's head. And I've met Nash and he's only 6'1".

[Inactive]

That line isn't even at the top of Nash's head. And I've met Nash and he's only 6'1".It's not supposed to reach the top of Nash's head. No one is saying that Chris Paul is as tall as Steve Nash.

I posted his measurement (5'11.75) and a picture of him next to Nash (measured 6'1 barefoot) which seems consistent with those measurements.

[D.J.]

It's not supposed to reach the top of Nash's head. No one is saying that Chris Paul is as tall as Steve Nash.

I posted his measurement (5'11.75) and a picture of him next to Nash (measured 6'1 barefoot) which seems consistent with those measurements.


It is supposed to reach the top of his head because then it's not an accurate description.

[Inactive]

It is supposed to reach the top of his head because then it's not an accurate description.What?

[Mirko Cro Cop]

That's good stuff, you seem to know what you're talking about. Personally I just coach, don't know about stuff like these except the things I hear and sometimes read.

A couple things though. It's not about gaining an edge on the competition in high school, it's about being able to go pro and the money that can bring at the higher levels. And if somebody else on your level is doing something to get them bigger and stronger you need to be doing the same. Doesn't matter that you grow from 6' to 6'2 from 18 to 20 when somebody else is going from 6'3 to 6'5 and plays your position and is about as skilled, you WILL be behind.
Before you go pro, you have to get recruited to a top d-1 school. That means you have to outperform everyone else in your high school games because these college recruiters will be at these games. It all starts in HS, heck it even starts in middle school with these kids competing to get into prep schools. If you wanted to create a genetically superior athlete with drugs at an early age, you're going to need LOTS of money, I'm talking tens of thousands of dollars if not more and even then, your genetic predisposition will always have a limit that no matter how much HGH and other hormones you take, will never be able to cross. The main thing I'm talking about here is height, if both your parents are 5'6 and both have a long ancestral history of being short, you won't be 6'5 no matter how much HGH you take, period. If it was that easy, the super rich would be producing elite level athletes out of their kids like an assembly line.

[ZenMaster]

Before you go pro, you have to get recruited to a top d-1 school. That means you have to outperform everyone else in your high school games because these college recruiters will be at these games. It all starts in HS, heck it even starts in middle school with these kids competing to get into prep schools. If you wanted to create a genetically superior athlete with drugs at an early age, you're going to need LOTS of money, I'm talking tens of thousands of dollars if not more and even then, your genetic predisposition will always have a limit that no matter how much HGH and other hormones you take, will never be able to cross. The main thing I'm talking about here is height, if both your parents are 5'6 and both have a long ancestral history of being short, you won't be 6'5 no matter how much HGH you take, period. If it was that easy, the super rich would be producing elite level athletes out of their kids like an assembly line.

I'm aware of the bolded, but say you're 5'11 and another guy is 5'11, you're the two best point guards in the country. One starts taking HGH and the other doesn't. A lot of the best projects are fairly close in size.

You don't have to be scouted and play D1 to go pro, you can go pro in many other places in the world than the NBA.

[D.J.]

What?


Am I writing in Chinese? You put the line at the top of Nash's head. He's the taller of the two.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

I'm aware of the bolded, but say you're 5'11 and another guy is 5'11, you're the two best point guards in the country. One starts taking HGH and the other doesn't. A lot of the best projects are fairly close in size.

You don't have to be scouted and play D1 to go pro, you can go pro in many other places in the world than the NBA.
Just because he's taking HGH doesn't mean he's going outperform you. There's so many factors that come into play here. If HGH is all that he's on then you go take some Bolderone, testosterone, winstrol, and EPO. You'll out work him on the court given that your skill levels is around the same. This isn't bodybuilding where drugs is almost everything, in basketball, PED's are ONE aspect of what it takes to succeed on the pro level.

And yes I realize that people go to Europe and such over college but those are outliers, most kids go through the college route and that's how it's always been because the NBA is where it's at in terms of competition, prestige, and most importantly, money.

[Inactive]

Am I writing in Chinese? "It is supposed to reach the top of his head because then it's not an accurate description."

This sentence means that the line ought to reach the top of Nash's head, so that it can be an inaccurate description.

I didn't think that was what you intended to say, so I asked for clarification.


You put the line at the top of Nash's head. He's the taller of the two.1. I didn't make the picture.

2. It doesn't matter. The point is to clearly delineate the disparity in height. The picture will show where the top of Paul's head is relative to Nash, whether the line is over Nash's head, or Paul's.

[ZenMaster]

Just because he's taking HGH doesn't mean he's going outperform you. There's so many factors that come into play here. If HGH is all that he's on then you go take some Bolderone, testosterone, winstrol, and EPO. You'll out work him on the court given that your skill levels is around the same. This isn't bodybuilding where drugs is almost everything, in basketball, PED's are ONE aspect of what it takes to succeed on the pro level.

And yes I realize that people go to Europe and such over college but those are outliers, most kids go through the college route and that's how it's always been because the NBA is where it's at in terms of competition, prestige, and most importantly, money.

It's not about taking HGH vs something else, it's about taking PEDs vs not doing it. The guy doing it will have an advantage.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

It's not about taking HGH vs something else, it's about taking PEDs vs not doing it. The guy doing it will have an advantage.
Well no shit, that's why they're called performance enhancers

[ZenMaster]

Well no shit, that's why they're called performance enhancers

You where arguing HGH wouldn't do much for young players, but now that seems only on the basis that they take it instead of something else, which they don't.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

You where arguing HGH wouldn't do much for young players, but now that seems only on the basis that they take it instead of something else, which they don't.
I never said they didn't do much...

They're not do much in terms of height increase but if you take a min to read how HGH works and what it does, you'll understand that it's not meant to turn you into a skyscraper or even bring a significant increase in height growth. When it comes to height, the human body just doesn't work like that. If you look at most kids with severe growth deficiencies that's bad enough to where they need HGH, you'll see that even with long term HGH usage, most of these kids still end up shorter than the average kid. It's meant to aid in SOME growth in height, but most kids who are growth deficient aren't just lacking in terms of height, they're in need moreso in areas like bone density, bone structure, muscle growth, etc.

HGH's main usage for the athlete is faster recovery for muscle tears, joint, bone, and skin injuries, not for height.

[STATUTORY]

I never said they didn't do much...

They're not do much in terms of height increase but if you take a min to read how HGH works and what it does, you'll understand that it's not meant to turn you into a skyscraper or even bring a significant increase in height growth. HGH's main usage for the athlete is faster recovery for muscle tears, joint, bone, and skin injuries, not for height.

but aren't they usually prescribed to kids with HGH deficiency so they reach adult heights?

so is HGH not effective at stimulating height growth past certain level, ie the natural adult height for person assuming adequate HGH level?

really not educated about this, so asking in earnest

[ZenMaster]

I never said they didn't do much...

They're not do much in terms of height increase but if you take a min to read how HGH works and what it does, you'll understand that it's not meant to turn you into a skyscraper or even bring a significant increase in height growth. When it comes to height, the human body just doesn't work like that. If you look at most kids with severe growth deficiencies that's bad enough to where they need HGH, you'll see that even with long term HGH usage, most of these kids still end up shorter than the average kid. It's meant to aid in SOME growth in height, but most kids who are growth deficient aren't just lacking in terms of height, they're in need moreso in areas like bone density, bone structure, muscle growth, etc.

HGH's main usage for the athlete is faster recovery for muscle tears, joint, bone, and skin injuries, not for height.

I never said HGH only makes you taller, I just focused on it because we where talking about taking this drug at a pretty young age where kids would still be growing.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

but aren't they usually prescribed to kids with HGH deficiency so they reach adult heights?

so is HGH not effective at stimulating height growth past certain level, ie the natural adult height for person assuming adequate HGH level?

really not educated about this, so asking in earnest
It is to a certain extent but once you're past a certain age (the number most medical sources state is around 14-16 for boys) when your growth plates close, this basically means your body has set a limit on how tall you can be. Of course you will keep growing past that age until around 21-22, depending on each person but my point is, megadosing HGH and other insulin growth factor peptides past a certain age will do nothing for you in terms of height increase.

You're not going to know exactly how tall you'll be, there's so many factors involved like diet, sleep patterns, genetics,etc. For the most part, you can get a good estimate by looking at your parents but shit if your parents are both 5'10ish, you still have the potential to be 6'4-6'5 but hopping on large doses of HGH at age 13-14 for years on end isn't going to guarantee that either and who in their right mind especially parents would agree to that for their kids especially when their kid isn't showing signs of growth deficiency, not to mention the absurd amount of money it would cost to do that.

You're basically talking about putting a kid through years on end of scientific experiments to try and turn him into something his genetics says he's not meant to be. And let's face it, if your parents are both 5'6, you're not going to be tall and probably not meant to play professional basketball. No amount of drugs is going to change that.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

I never said HGH only makes you taller, I just focused on it because we where talking about taking this drug at a pretty young age where kids would still be growing.
I realize that and I'm telling you that my point is this: there's little benefit for a 14-16 year old to take HGH and any other hormones especially in heavy dosages because their hormone and IGF output during that time of their life is going to be at its max and all you're doing to blindsiding their body will growing to its maximum potential.

What's going to happen when you put a 14 year old on long term hormone usage is it's going disrupt his natural hormone production and then before you know it, he's going to be dependent on artificial hormones for life because his body never had the chance to fully go through puberty. Yes, puberty is the most important growth stage of a human's life cycle, you disrupt it with artificial hormones and you're potentially going to **** that person up for the rest of their life.

[Lebron23]

It is to a certain extent but once you're past a certain age (the number most medical sources state is around 14-16 for boys) when your growth plates close, this basically means your body has set a limit on how tall you can be. Of course you will keep growing past that age until around 21-22, depending on each person but my point is, megadosing HGH and other insulin growth factor peptides past a certain age will do nothing for you in terms of height increase.

You're not going to know exactly how tall you'll be, there's so many factors involved like diet, sleep patterns, genetics,etc. For the most part, you can get a good estimate by looking at your parents but shit if your parents are both 5'10ish, you still have the potential to be 6'4-6'5 but hopping on large doses of HGH at age 13-14 for years on end isn't going to guarantee that either and who in their right mind especially parents would agree to that for their kids especially when their kid isn't showing signs of growth deficiency, not to mention the absurd amount of money it would cost to do that.

You're basically talking about putting a kid through years on end of scientific experiments to try and turn him into something his genetics says he's not meant to be. And let's face it, if your parents are both 5'6, you're not going to be tall and probably not meant to play professional basketball. No amount of drugs is going to change that.

Not entirely true. Lebron parents are only 5'7" (Dad) and 5'5" (Gloria).

[Mirko Cro Cop]

Not entirely true. Lebron parents are only 5'7" (Dad) and 5'5" (Gloria).
Again those are outliers, almost like the 99th percentile of the population where something like that can happen.

Not to mention there's a ton of red flags I've read about LeBron's biological heritage, like supposedly his grandparents were very tall which is strange for his parents to be so short. Something doesn't add up there.

[ZenMaster]

I realize that and I'm telling you that my point is this: there's little benefit for a 14-16 year old to take HGH and any other hormones especially in heavy dosages because their hormone and IGF output during that time of their life is going to be at its max and all you're doing to blindsiding their body will growing to its maximum potential.

What's going to happen when you put a 14 year old on long term hormone usage is it's going disrupt his natural hormone production and then before you know it, he's going to be dependent on artificial hormones for life because his body never had the chance to fully go through puberty. Yes, puberty is the most important growth stage of a human's life cycle, you disrupt it with artificial hormones and you're potentially going to **** that person up for the rest of their life.

That doesn't coincide though with letting kids who are very short going through the same process you say there are so many problems with.
Is it worth for people being short to **** up the rest of his life taking this drug then?

Last, I'd like to clearify I'm not talking about taking a random kid and making him an athletic freak and a great basketball player through drugs.
I coach kids that are already very good and some have the chance to go pro and earn money that would get them set for life, it's those players where the question of it being worth it pops up.

[D.J.]

Not entirely true. Lebron parents are only 5'7" (Dad) and 5'5" (Gloria).


That's a freak thing. You take anyone else with parents of those heights and I doubt they're anything more than 5'9"-5'10" even if they grow a bit more than expected. My parents are 6'2" and 5'10" and I'm 6'8". Granted 6'2" and 5'10" are still tall, but it's nothing freakish. That's the funny thing with genetics. You never know what can happen in the end and no amount of HGH is going to override genetics.

[PickernRoller]

Not everyone's like Lebron? :confusedshrug: