Replace Lebron with Tyson Chandler and contact year Ariza

[clutchinho]

The salaries match up with a Lebron for Chandler and Ariza swap, how far do the Heat go?

To me, they're still the favorites for the title. They lose Lebron's GOAT level transition game but retain everything else that makes the Heat deadly (trapping defense, great 3 point shooting, multiple goto guys with Wade and Bosh), they also instantly become a better rebounding team and are able to field a big lineup with Chandler and Bosh to match up against teams like the Pacers that currently punish the Heat inside.

Overall, I think they become a better playoff team but a less efficient regular season team.

[Jameerthefear]

The salaries match up with a Lebron for Chandler and Ariza swap, how far do the Heat go?

To me, they're still the favorites for the title. They lose Lebron's GOAT level transition game but retain everything else that makes the Heat deadly (trapping defense, great 3 point shooting, multiple goto guys with Wade and Bosh), they also instantly become a better rebounding team and are able to field a big lineup with Chandler and Bosh to match up against teams like the Pacers that currently punish the Heat inside.

Overall, I think they become a better playoff team but a less efficient regular season team.
no just no. the east is weak, so they still make conference finals, but they lose in 5 maybe 4 to indy.

[Lebron23]

Can you please kill yourself right now?? You stupid mid 30's Kobetard. Lebron >> Kobe

[TheMarkMadsen]

If wade was able to play every game of the playoffs they could possibly make it to the finals, would give the pacers a decent shot in the ECF. Would be outmatched in the finals tho

[Byobob]

The salaries match up with a Lebron for Chandler and Ariza swap, how far do the Heat go?

To me, they're still the favorites for the title. They lose Lebron's GOAT level transition game but retain everything else that makes the Heat deadly (trapping defense, great 3 point shooting, multiple goto guys with Wade and Bosh), they also instantly become a better rebounding team and are able to field a big lineup with Chandler and Bosh to match up against teams like the Pacers that currently punish the Heat inside.

Overall, I think they become a better playoff team but a less efficient regular season team.

I could be wrong but the Heat lineup is built around Lebron.

[Mr. Jabbar]

interesting, they also become a better 4th quarter performing team

[clutchinho]

no just no. the east is weak, so they still make conference finals, but they lose in 5 maybe 4 to indy.

Disagree, Indiana are getting overrated. The main advantage they currently hold over the Heat (size) is negated when the Heat can put out a lineup of Chandler, Bosh, Ariza, Wade and Chalmers. All those easy baby hooks and offensive rebounds Hibbert feasts on now against the Heat? He'll have to work for those.

You've got one of the best inside outside combos in the league with Wade and Bosh, you've got elite shooting and athleticism in your role players, and you're able to go big against any team with Chandler in the middle. It's a similar team to the Kobe Gasol Lakers that won 2 titles, definitely a tier above the Pacers.

[Lebron23]

Disagree, Indiana are getting overrated. The main advantage they currently hold over the Heat (size) is negated when the Heat can put out a lineup of Chandler, Bosh, Ariza, Wade and Chalmers. All those easy baby hooks and offensive rebounds Hibbert feasts on now against the Heat? He'll have to work for those.

You've got one of the best inside outside combos in the league with Wade and Bosh, you've got elite shooting and athleticism in your role players, and you're able to go big against any team with Chandler in the middle. It's a similar team to the Kobe Gasol Lakers that won 2 titles, definitely a tier above the Pacers.


Lebron is still better than Kobe. 4x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP at age 28 >> 1x NBA MVP, 2x* NBA Finals MVP at age 25. (Gasol should have been the Finals MV. He showed up in Game 7 while Kobe disappeared like David Copperfield.

[Jameerthefear]

Disagree, Indiana are getting overrated. The main advantage they currently hold over the Heat (size) is negated when the Heat can put out a lineup of Chandler, Bosh, Ariza, Wade and Chalmers. All those easy baby hooks and offensive rebounds Hibbert feasts on now against the Heat? He'll have to work for those.

You've got one of the best inside outside combos in the league with Wade and Bosh, you've got elite shooting and athleticism in your role players, and you're able to go big against any team with Chandler in the middle. It's a similar team to the Kobe Gasol Lakers that won 2 titles, definitely a tier above the Pacers.
Bosh routinely plays terrible against Indiana, and without the threat of Lebron driving Indy can stay with shooters more often. Wade doesn't play consistently well enough to beat Indiana in a 7 game series, and since he would probably have to guard PG he'd be spent. Unless Ariza guards him. Not to mention that Wade gets feeds from LBJ all the time to get him easy looks. That's all gone without the best player in the world right there. Miami can't match them offensively anymore.

[Micku]

no just no. the east is weak, so they still make conference finals, but they lose in 5 maybe 4 to indy.

I say indy beats them in 6 or 7. The main reason why Indy is a big threat to Maimi is because of their frontline more than anything else. Miami always make Hibbert look like prime Mourning or something with their lack of bigs, and the Pacers would beat Miami at their biggest weakest, which is rebounding.

If Tyson Chandler would do his job correctly, then Hibbert wouldn't score like 20 ppg against them. This eliminates one of the main threats and help with the rebounding issue. Also, he is one of the best offensive rebounders in the league. With Chris Anderson, Oden (lol), Beasley and Haslem coming off the bench, they would have a solid frontline to compete with the Pacers.

Assuming if Wade and Bosh are healthy, then the Heat with Tyson and Ariza would have a solid shot at beating the Pacers, but I think the Pacers will still edge out. But if you replace Ariza with Deng, they would have a better chance.

[DFish24]

Title favorites for sure.

[clutchinho]

Bosh routinely plays terrible against Indiana, and without the threat of Lebron driving Indy can stay with shooters more often. Wade doesn't play consistently well enough to beat Indiana in a 7 game series, and since he would probably have to guard PG he'd be spent. Unless Ariza guards him. Not to mention that Wade gets feeds from LBJ all the time to get him easy looks. That's all gone without the best player in the world right there. Miami can't match them offensively anymore.

You're assuming Wade and Bosh are still playing like current off ball Wade and spot up shooter Bosh.

Without Lebron, Wade becomes the playmaker once again, an aggressive Wade is a 28-7 player. Bosh's life also gets a lot easier when the defense has to respect Chandler's abilities as a finisher and offensive rebounder, but in any case he is Bosh, get him the ball at the elbow and he will get his.

Offensively they won't lose much at all. The spacing will still be amazing, unless if you think Lebron taught Battier and Ray Allen how to shoot 3s. Chandler's offensive rebounding also gets them 3 or 4 extra possessions a game which is huge in a slowed down playoff game.

[Jameerthefear]

I say indy beats them in 6 or 7. The main reason why Indy is a big threat to Maimi is because of their frontline more than anything else. Miami always make Hibbert look like prime Mourning or something with their lack of bigs, and the Pacers would beat Miami at their biggest weakest, which is rebounding.

If Tyson Chandler would do his job correctly, then Hibbert wouldn't score like 20 ppg against them. This eliminates one of the main threats and help with the rebounding issue. Also, he is one of the best offensive rebounders in the league. With Chris Anderson, Oden (lol), Beasley and Haslem coming off the bench, they would have a solid frontline to compete with the Pacers.

Assuming if Wade and Bosh are healthy, then the Heat with Tyson and Ariza would have a solid shot at beating the Pacers, but I think the Pacers will still edge out. But if you replace Ariza with Deng, they would have a better chance.
That was last year. With the emergence of Lance Stephenson and the addition of Scola and Granger getting back, they don't need Hibbert to put up that many points. Plus PG has improved this year. They have more players to pick up the slack now.

[Lebron23]

I wouldn't even trade 2012 Kobe and 2012 Gasol for Lebron James. This is such a terrible thread. Lebron was the Heat's best player against Indiana in 2012 and 2013.

[Jameerthefear]

You're assuming Wade and Bosh are still playing like current off ball Wade and spot up shooter Bosh.

Without Lebron, Wade becomes the playmaker once again, an aggressive Wade is a 28-7 player. Bosh's life also gets a lot easier when the defense has to respect Chandler's abilities as a finisher and offensive rebounder, but in any case he is Bosh, get him the ball at the elbow and he will get his.

Offensively they won't lose much at all. The spacing will still be amazing, unless if you think Lebron taught Battier and Ray Allen how to shoot 3s. Chandler's offensive rebounding also gets them 3 or 4 extra possessions a game which is huge in a slowed down playoff game.
So let me get this straight, a past his prime Wade suddenly turns into a 28-7 player (which he's only done ONCE in his career), Chandler's abilities as a finisher apparently have more impact then Lebron James sucking the whole entire defense on him with his driving abilities and shooting, and the Heat shooters get the same exact looks without the best player in the fvcking world driving and dishing. Okay. You're dumb

[chazzy]

Lebron23 is on autopilot

[clutchinho]

So let me get this straight, a past his prime Wade suddenly turns into a 28-7 player (which he's only done ONCE in his career), Chandler's abilities as a finisher apparently have more impact then Lebron James sucking the whole entire defense on him with his driving abilities and shooting, and the Heat shooters get the same exact looks without the best player in the fvcking world driving and dishing. Okay. You're dumb

You don't get it, I'm not saying the Heat are better without Lebron

But the gap between having Wade driving in and sucking the defense instead of Lebron is a lot smaller than the gap between having Tyson Chandler manning the middle instead of Birdman. Wade has turned himself into a good off ball player but that's not his natural game, he's had a hall of fame career as a penetrating playmaker.

I don't see evidence of Wade's decline, he's had some injuries and willingly taken a backseat to Lebron, but that's not a decline

[Micku]

That was last year. With the emergence of Lance Stephenson and the addition of Scola and Granger getting back, they don't need Hibbert to put up that many points. Plus PG has improved this year. They have more players to pick up the slack now.

Hibbert was still killing Miami in the games played this year too. He scored 24 against them when they lost to the Pacers. Probably the main reason why they beat the Pacers when the Heat was at home was because they put Hibbert into foul trouble.

The Pacers do have better guys now, and they are better this year offensively. I feel like Miami can match up with them offensively without LeBron. They have too much offensive talent with Wade, Bosh, Allen, and Beasley and better shooters overall. I don't think they would get as good as looks without LeBron tho.

I feel like Tyson can hold down the paint better, and help the Heat with rebounding, which also takes away one of the Pacers main strength against the Heat. So, I think it'll be closer than just 5 games. I still think the Pacers would win because I don't really trust D-Wade and Bosh ability to lead them pass the Pacers. It depends on their health. If they are healthy, then they have a legit shot.

[Jameerthefear]

You don't get it, I'm not saying the Heat are better without Lebron

But the gap between having Wade driving in and sucking the defense instead of Lebron is a lot smaller than the gap between having Tyson Chandler manning the middle instead of Birdman. Wade has turned himself into a good off ball player but that's not his natural game, he's had a hall of fame career as a penetrating playmaker.

I don't see evidence of Wade's decline, he's had some injuries and willingly taken a backseat to Lebron, but that's not a decline
Wade HAS declined. There is no doubt about that, Heat fans have been saying it for a while. The Heat are not going to score enough in a 7 game series to beat the Pacers. They barely beat them with Lebron, so what makes you think they can do it with Wade as the alpha. You're just assuming a bunch of hypothetical shit falls into place and everything works just perfect. Bottom line is Indy would beat them in 4 or 5.

[ripthekik]

3 rings by now if they joined in 2010.

[clutchinho]

Wade HAS declined. There is no doubt about that, Heat fans have been saying it for a while. The Heat are not going to score enough in a 7 game series to beat the Pacers. They barely beat them with Lebron, so what makes you think they can do it with Wade as the alpha. You're just assuming a bunch of hypothetical shit falls into place and everything works just perfect. Bottom line is Indy would beat them in 4 or 5.

Wade's averaged 20+ each season in the past 3 seasons while shooting 52% and 54% from the field with career lows in turnovers

That doesn't scream decline to me, that's a guy on criose control picking his spots more because his team is historically stacked and well coached

[clutchinho]

You're just assuming a bunch of hypothetical shit falls into place and everything works just perfect. Bottom line is Indy would beat them in 4 or 5.


The irony

[Jameerthefear]

Hibbert was still killing Miami in the games played this year too. He scored 24 against them when they lost to the Pacers. Probably the main reason why they beat the Pacers when the Heat was at home was because they put Hibbert into foul trouble.

The Pacers do have better guys now, and they are better this year offensively. I feel like Miami can match up with them offensively without LeBron. They have too much offensive talent with Wade, Bosh, Allen, and Beasley and better shooters overall. I don't think they would get as good as looks without LeBron tho.

I feel like Tyson can hold down the paint better, and help the Heat with rebounding, which also takes away one of the Pacers main strength against the Heat. So, I think it'll be closer than just 5 games. I still think the Pacers would win because I don't really trust D-Wade and Bosh ability to lead them pass the Pacers. It depends on their health. If they are healthy, then they have a legit shot.
The Pacers didn't miss a beat when Hibbert went out with foul trouble that game. They basically gave the game away in the final 2 minutes. Heat shooters are least effective without Lebron, Bosh plays terrible against the Pacers in the playoffs, and sometimes Ray Allen doesn't even show up. Wade played awful in the playoffs last year too. Rebounding is a big part of the Pacers victories against the Heat, yes I agree with that. But that is because usually it is tough for them to keep up scoring-wise (at least last year it was). Paint defense is important but that goes out the window if Tyson gets in foul trouble without Lebron as the help defender and then were right back where we started.

[Jameerthefear]

Wade's averaged 20+ each season in the past 3 seasons while shooting 52% and 54% from the field with career lows in turnovers

That doesn't scream decline to me, that's a guy on criose control picking his spots more because his team is historically stacked and well coached
Post Wade's averages vs the Pacers in the playoffs last year. Do it.

[Micku]

You don't get it, I'm not saying the Heat are better without Lebron

But the gap between having Wade driving in and sucking the defense instead of Lebron is a lot smaller than the gap between having Tyson Chandler manning the middle instead of Birdman. Wade has turned himself into a good off ball player but that's not his natural game, he's had a hall of fame career as a penetrating playmaker.

I don't see evidence of Wade's decline, he's had some injuries and willingly taken a backseat to Lebron, but that's not a decline

He definitely declined. He used to better off the dribble, a better finisher and getting to the line more. While I believe the stats of him finishing is better than it was in 2009 or 2010, he has LeBron to help him by giving him great passes to the rim or on the fastbreak. I do think Wade would average more ppg if LeBron wasn't on the team because he'll take more shots, but he wouldn't be as efficient. You can just see it in his game that he isn't the player that he used to be. At least not consistently. He's still great tho.

[clutchinho]

Post Wade's averages vs the Pacers in the playoffs last year. Do it.

Averages as the off ball Wade.. irrelevant to what we were discussing, that'd he's still more than good enough as the best player on a title team

[Jameerthefear]

Averages as the off ball Wade.. irrelevant to what we were discussing, that'd he's still more than good enough as the best player on a title team
Not irrelevant at all. If he doesn't play well as the 2nd option, then what makes you think he plays well as the main focus of the defense. You're making shit up

[clutchinho]

Not irrelevant at all. If he doesn't play well as the 2nd option, then what makes you think he plays well as the main focus of the defense. You're making shit up

Because he's Wade, Becuase despite playing a role hes not comfortable with hes still shooting career highs in the last few years, because he hasn't turned into tyreke Evans overnight , because bosh had 37 and 10 when they actually gave him the ball for once

Lol at Wade needing to prove he's good enough to be a first option.

[Jameerthefear]

Because he's Wade, Becuase despite playing a role hes not comfortable with hes still shooting career highs in the last few years, because he hasn't turned into tyreke Evans overnight , because bosh had 37 and 10 when they actually gave him the ball for once

Lol at Wade needing to prove he's good enough to be a first option.
more hypotheticals and you even brought up stats that bosh put up against a completely different team. cute. done with ya bud. live in your own stupidity.

[Micku]

The Pacers didn't miss a beat when Hibbert went out with foul trouble that game. They basically gave the game away in the final 2 minutes. Heat shooters are least effective without Lebron, Bosh plays terrible against the Pacers in the playoffs, and sometimes Ray Allen doesn't even show up. Wade played awful in the playoffs last year too. Rebounding is a big part of the Pacers victories against the Heat, yes I agree with that. But that is because usually it is tough for them to keep up scoring-wise (at least last year it was). Paint defense is important but that goes out the window if Tyson gets in foul trouble without Lebron as the help defender and then were right back where we started.

The Heat actually went on a run and scored a bunch of points in the paint a little bit after Hibbert went out of the game due foul trouble I believe. So, they missed him defensively.

Wade was playing on one knee in the playoffs last year. Even though he has declined, he is still a threat healthy and he'll play his style of game more and not off the ball. And Bosh won't have to guard Hibbert or Hibbert with him if Tyson is on the team. It would mainly be a West vs Bosh battle. And while the shooters not as efficient with LBJ, they still have Wade to give them open shots. And they have great ball movement, so they would still be a threat and better than the Pacers imo. Ray Ray may get more shots, Beasley would get more shots, and etc to pick up LBJ slack. And I think Tyson would be fine because the Heat are still a good defensive team w/o LBJ and if you replace him with Ariza. Not as good, but I would think they would still be one of the best in the league.

I think they would take the Pacers to 6-7. They would match up with them in rebounding, Tyson would help them defend the paint better, and they still the offensively talent to battle with them. I don't think they would win because I don't know how well Wade will play if he is healthy w/o LBJ or Bosh, but they would battle them.

[Al Thornton]

wow

[clutchinho]

more hypotheticals and you even brought up stats that bosh put up against a completely different team. cute. done with ya bud. live in your own stupidity.

so Wade being good enough to be a first option is now a hypothetical

Another typical lebron stan, did u start watching basketball in the summer of 2011?

[Trollsmasher]

People quickly forgot how abysmally awful were Bosh and Wade in that Indiana series and how much LeBron had to carry that team.

And the Pacers are so much better this year.

And you want me to switch LeBron for Chandler and Trevor Ariza?:lol

[clutchinho]

People quickly forgot how abysmally awful were Bosh and Wade in that Indiana series and how much LeBron had to carry that team.

Food for thought, maybe Lebron's playstyle has something to do with it.

Can you remember any of Lebron's teammates having a good playoff series, ever? Closest non-role player I could think of was Wade against the Mavs in 2011, and that came when Lebron pulled a houdini act.

[Jameerthefear]

People quickly forgot how abysmally awful were Bosh and Wade in that Indiana series and how much LeBron had to carry that team.

And the Pacers are so much better this year.

And you want me to switch LeBron for Chandler and Trevor Ariza?:lol
B-b-but Wade will suddenly transform into a 28-7 player! Bosh will play well without Lebron getting him open looks and Tyson clogging the paint! It makes sense right?!

so Wade being good enough to be a first option is now a hypothetical

Another typical lebron stan, did u start watching basketball in the summer of 2011?
he's not good enough to lead this heat team over the pacers.
and lol @ being a LBJ stan when I'm an Orlando Magic fan. Don't really like him as a player, but I respect the hell out of him. Same with Kobe.

[Trollsmasher]

Food for thought, maybe Lebron's playstyle has something to do with it.

Can you remember any of Lebron's teammates having a good playoff series, ever? Closest non-role player I could think of was Wade against the Mavs in 2011, and that came when Lebron pulled a houdini act.
Ah classic blame it on LeBron argument.

It's LeBron's fault that Bosh was shooting 38% in that series while pulling down glorious 4 rebounds per game?

Why is it that Birdman coming off the bench (playing with Bron most of the time) was able to shoot 89% !!! FG and pull down 5 rebounds while playing 15 minutes less than Bosh?

[Micku]

People quickly forgot how abysmally awful were Bosh and Wade in that Indiana series and how much LeBron had to carry that team.

I think people are also forgetting that they were both banged up as well. To be fair, Wade was playing on one knee throughout the playoffs and Bosh was dealing with an ankle injury. He was doing okay scoring wise against the Pacers before his injury. Granted, they should've played better, but they were injured. LeBron had to carry them.

And of course you can argue that if they weren't injured and LBJ weren't there, they have to step their game up. Bosh and Wade would have more FGA. So, their points should go up, but they probably wouldn't be as efficient.

[clutchinho]

Ah classic blame it on LeBron argument.

It's LeBron's fault that Bosh was shooting 38% in that series while pulling down glorious 4 rebounds per game?

Why is it that Birdman coming off the bench (playing with Bron most of the time) was able to shoot 89% !!! FG and pull down 5 rebounds while playing 15 minutes less than Bosh?

:lol :lol :lol Birdman are you serious??

Imagine you're the Pacers coaching staff, you're figuring out how to stop Lebron, and how to stop Wade, and how to stop Bosh, and how to stop Ray Allen... At what point does stopping Birdman enter their thoughts

[Trollsmasher]

:lol :lol :lol Birdman are you serious??

Imagine you're the Pacers coaching staff, you're figuring out how to stop Lebron, and how to stop Wade, and how to stop Bosh, and how to stop Ray Allen... At what point does stopping Birdman enter their thoughts
You are stopping an entire team, not separate players. Bosh simply played like a soft guy he is and there is no reason to believe this would change with him taking on a bigger role. Getting outplayed by a 34 years old ex-methead coming off the bench shows how much you can rely on that guy.

[nycjeff45]

miami wins one game with lebron not playing and all these hypothetical threads everywhere up the arse...fcking idiots...

[The-Legend-24]

You can basically replace Bron with any all star wing player, and they're still the favorites.

[Lebron23]

You can basically replace Bron with any all star wing player, and they're still the favorites.


Sounds like Kobe in the lakers 3 peat. But seriously Lebron played his @$$ off against Indiana in the conference Finals.

[plowking]

How do we get through Indiana with Lebron being the only one that had a good series against them?

[plowking]

You can basically replace Bron with any all star wing player, and they're still the favorites.


Favorites that more than likely end up losing.

[bdreason]

2nd best team in the East. Wouldn't even make the playoffs out West, especially with Wade missing every other game.

[Micku]

How do we get through Indiana with Lebron being the only one that had a good series against them?

Last year Wade and Bosh were injured against the Pacers. Plus the Pacers attack the prime weakness that the Heat have, which is rebounding. Plus Hibbert was having a career series against them and the Heat made him look like Shaq Miami Heat version. That's pathetic, and that's was one of the big reasons why the series was so close despite Wade and Bosh not performing. The dude average 22.1 ppg on 55.7% and 10 rebounds. He lead the Pacers in points and he's very same guy that average 12.3 ppg in the regular season on 44.8%. And two of the games that the Pacers did beat the Heat last year was extremely close and Hibbert was the x factor and not counting the injury of Wade.

I don't think they would get pass the Pacers w/o LBJ, but with the addition of Tyson, it would eliminate a lot of weakness of the Heat. Hibbert won't go off and Tyson would help on the rebounds and they would have solid back ups. Tho the Pacers improved this year offensively, I still think the Heat would match them offensively w/o LeBron, but it depends on the health on Wade and Bosh. If they are healthy, I can see it going to six games and possibly seven.

But w/o Lebron, they probably wouldn't beat the West top west teams like Spurs and Thunder if they are healthy too.

[Fudge]

Mario Chalmers
Dwyane Wade
Trevor Ariza
Chris Bosh
Tyson Chandler

That's STILL a contender. I don't care what you say. Only people denying this are JeBron stans. :oldlol:

[moe94]

Mario Chalmers
Dwyane Wade
Trevor Ariza
Chris Bosh
Tyson Chandler

That's STILL a contender. I don't care what you say. Only people denying this are JeBron stans. :oldlol:

Contender when your best player is an injury prone, coasting Wade? Really?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Contender when your best player is an injury prone, coasting Wade? Really?

Wade could sit out every 3 games with Ray Allen, and RMJ. Then you have Beasley who also adds scoring.

[LeGOAT]

If Wades knee acts up in the playoffs like always or Bosh gets hurt like he did in 2012, good luck with that

[DMAVS41]

Definitely a contender if healthy, but I still think they lose to the Pacers. Bosh would have to grow a pair...and Chandler would get his shit kicked by Hibbert over the course of that series.

[K Xerxes]

2nd seed 50-55 win team I'd say. Lose to Indiana in about 6.

[Jameerthefear]

How do we get through Indiana with Lebron being the only one that had a good series against them?
exactly my point

[clutchinho]

Mario Chalmers
Dwyane Wade
Trevor Ariza
Chris Bosh
Tyson Chandler

That's STILL a contender. I don't care what you say. Only people denying this are JeBron stans. :oldlol:

With one of the best benches in the league and elite shooting at every position too.

Teams wouldn't dare to double Wade or Bosh, you gonna leave Ray Allen open in the corner or leave Tyson free for a lob?