Lebron 6 vs. Lebron 23

[Lebron23]

http://sinbapointforward.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/lebron-james-past-present-dunk.jpg

Who's the better player?

Who wins if they play 1 on 1? reminds me of Jordan's commercial back in 2003.

[b1imtf]

Once again, 6 is better and 23 is more exciting

[blood yes]

23 Cleveland LeBron is MUCHHH better than Heat LeBron, not even a debate.

Cleveland LeBron was incredible, truly an absolute legend

LeBron has NEVER had a performance as good as his performance against the pistons in 2007, in which, at the age of TWENTYTWO, scored the last TWENTYFIVE points for the cavaliers. Has Wilt even done that in a regular season game? Must be some sort of record

Heat LeBron doesnt have the explosion or the incredible clutchness that cleveland lebron had.

People forget 2007 game 5, and say bullshit like "he only scored 48, dudes have scored more in the playoffs"

You dumbshits are forgetting he scored the last TWENTYFIVE points, no cavalier made a point during that timespan, it was 1v5.

Heat LeBron has no bounce on his dunks.

It saddens me that LeBron regressed so much, lebron in 2007 was an absolute beast, a terror to be reckoned with. He essentially destroyed the pistons dynasty of the mid 2000s.

On the other hand, Heat LeBron needs ray allen to hit his shots for him:(
:cry:

2007 game 5 lebron, boy, that was a performance for the ages, it was 1v5

[KyrieTheFuture]

It's a wash. He was more athletic as 23 but he's a way better defender as 6.

[blood yes]

It's a wash. He was more athletic as 23 but he's a way better defender as 6.
Read my above post, for the glory days when he was beasting as a cavalier, murdering the pistons dynasty hopes into oblivion:(

Now, hes just an "ehh, hes the best in the league, but not as good as duncan/kobe/shaq" type of guy.

LeBron could have been the best in nba history, he ****ed it all up when he lost that athleticism, no bounce now

[Illuminati]

23 Cleveland LeBron is MUCHHH better than Heat LeBron, not even a debate.

Cleveland LeBron was incredible, truly an absolute legend

LeBron has NEVER had a performance as good as his performance against the pistons in 2007, in which, at the age of TWENTYTWO, scored the last TWENTYFIVE points for the cavaliers. Has Wilt even done that in a regular season game? Must be some sort of record

Heat LeBron doesnt have the explosion or the incredible clutchness that cleveland lebron had.

People forget 2007 game 5, and say bullshit like "he only scored 48, dudes have scored more in the playoffs"

You dumbshits are forgetting he scored the last TWENTYFIVE points, no cavalier made a point during that timespan, it was 1v5.

Heat LeBron has no bounce on his dunks.

It saddens me that LeBron regressed so much, lebron in 2007 was an absolute beast, a terror to be reckoned with. He essentially destroyed the pistons dynasty of the mid 2000s.

On the other hand, Heat LeBron needs ray allen to hit his shots for him:(
:cry:

2007 game 5 lebron, boy, that was a performance for the ages, it was 1v5

I'd like to agree with you, but I just can't. That's no doubt one of his greatest performances. But this game takes the cake no question, no debate.

http://youtu.be/_7kkbpcgXI8

The amount of pressure that was on him to deliver that big of a game like he did. No other player in sports history had that much pressure LeBron had that game.

He came in right from tip-off, dominated 3 straight quarters and never looked back. If we lost that game and LeBron didn't deliver, I just don't know how he would recover from that mentally.

That Pistons game is definitely top 5 though.

[red1]

cleveland lebron>>>>>>>>>> miami lebron

[inclinerator]

miami lebron is better, cleveland lebron was more aggressive

[blood yes]

I'd like to agree with you, but I just can't. That's no doubt one of his greatest performances. But this game takes the cake no question, no debate.

http://youtu.be/_7kkbpcgXI8

The amount of pressure that was on him to deliver that big of a game like he did. No other player in sports history had that much pressure LeBron had that game.

He came in right from tip-off, dominated 3 straight quarters and never looked back. If we lost that game and LeBron didn't deliver, I just don't know how he would recover from that mentally.

That Pistons game is definitely top 5 though.

:roll: :roll:
:biggums: :wtf:

The game that LeBron had against the pistons was rediculous. If you forgot, the dude hit 4 double clutch layups, one scoop up gamewinner, around 6-7 fadeaway off balance feet kicked out 22 foot jumpshots, and to top it all off, the dude did it with no help.

No screen from Varejao or Igs, or a 3pointer from Gibson or Hughes, LeBron did EVERYTHING. Most human beings would die from exauhstion after doing what lebron did in that game against detroit.

His game against boston was good, but he had soo much help from his teammates, just wade's presence was enough to give lebron cushion with his scoring.

Are you saying daniel gibson is as good as dwyane wade?

LeBron has more help with the heat now than kobe did with shaq. Atleast kobe had HOPS. LeBron has a shitty vertical now.

LeBron in cleveland was legendary, enough to rival jordan, heat Lebron is just mehh. If this was 2002, Heat LeBron would be the 5th best player in the league behind duncan, shaq, kobe, and chris webber (reminder, he was a beast in 2002).

[moe94]

Cleveland LeBron seemed more dominant in that it was flat out clear who the best player on the court was. He was that dominant. Just a complete animal.

[Illuminati]

:roll: :roll:
:biggums: :wtf:

The game that LeBron had against the pistons was rediculous. If you forgot, the dude hit 4 double clutch layups, one scoop up gamewinner, around 6-7 fadeaway off balance feet kicked out 22 foot jumpshots, and to top it all off, the dude did it with no help.

No screen from Varejao or Igs, or a 3pointer from Gibson or Hughes, LeBron did EVERYTHING. Most human beings would die from exauhstion after doing what lebron did in that game against detroit.

His game against boston was good, but he had soo much help from his teammates, just wade's presence was enough to give lebron cushion with his scoring.

Are you saying daniel gibson is as good as dwyane wade?

LeBron has more help with the heat now than kobe did with shaq. Atleast kobe had HOPS. LeBron has a shitty vertical now.

LeBron in cleveland was legendary, enough to rival jordan, heat Lebron is just mehh. If this was 2002, Heat LeBron would be the 5th best player in the league behind duncan, shaq, kobe, and chris webber (reminder, he was a beast in 2002).

Of course he had a monster game, no one is denying that dude.

But he basically had no help in Game 6. Bosh was coming off an injury and playing limited minutes, and Wade was 50%. LeBron had 45 points on 73% shooting!! The next guy with the most points? Wade. He had 17 points on 17 shots.

LeBron has a shitty vertical now? :wtf: Here's an alley-oop from the playoffs when they were playing the Pacers.

http://i.bullfax.com/imgs/e20598c2ea5829695ecb3ff6312e6c6afb71149d.jpg

:biggums:

[fpliii]

LeBron 6 by a good margin. LeBron 23 hasn't lost much (anything?) athletically, is miles better in the post and with his jumper (though in the 09 playoffs he was wet from midrange), and is on another level as a defender.

[red1]

to me it is a no-brainer. 09-10 lebron's game was flawless. current lebron is just as good but the decline in athleticism and the fact that its no longer a one man team makes it far less entertaining

[magnax1]

People legit think Cleveland Lebron was better? He's smarter, more efficient, more skilled and a better defender now. He isn't as good of a slasher, but probably a better scorer now anyway.

[red1]

People legit think Cleveland Lebron was better? He's smarter, more efficient, more skilled and a better defender now. He isn't as good of a slasher, but probably a better scorer now anyway.
he lost something. anyone who's been watching closely can tell, its not in the stats or awards but its noticeable. it might be more to accurate to say that he gained something because im sure it has to do with his weight, he is nowhere near as dominant in the half-court anymore. the transition is still there and he now compensates for the decline in blow-by abilty in other ways but he hardly breaks his man down of the dribble now

[blood yes]

People legit think Cleveland Lebron was better? He's smarter, more efficient, more skilled and a better defender now. He isn't as good of a slasher, but probably a better scorer now anyway.
Read my previous post please

[NLZ]

to me it is a no-brainer. 09-10 lebron's game was flawless. current lebron is just as good but the decline in athleticism and the fact that its no longer a one man team makes it far less entertaining

:no:

[plowking]

Hes a better player now, by a good margin.

Seriously, watching him in the post now is a thing of beauty. I wish he'd be down on the block for 80% of the game since he'd score 35 points a night.

[fpliii]

From another forum a few days ago:


From NBA.com's shooting breakdowns

Driving Layup Shot (Per Game):

04 - 0.9/1.2, 74.0%
05 - 1.2/1.4, 83.5%
06 - 2.3/2.8, 82.2%
07 - 1.7/2.1, 83.1%
08 - 1.9/2.3, 83.7%
09 - 1.5/1.7, 85.0%
10 - 1.6/1.9, 81.1%
11 - 1.6/2.2, 70.6%
12 - 1.3/1.8, 70.8%
13 - 1.5/1.9, 78.1%
14 - 1.7/2.1, 78.8%

Decided to just tally up all driving shots.

14 - 65/79, 82.2% (3.2 FGA/G)
13 - 170/216, 78.7% (2.8 FGA/G)
12 - 112/159, 70.4% (2.6 FGA/G)
11 - 177/244, 72.5% (3.1 FGA/G)
10 - 174/203, 85.7% (2.7 FGA/G)
09 - 180/206, 87.4% (2.5 FGA/G)
08 - 200/242, 82.6% (3.2 FGA/G)
07 - 183/214, 85.5% (2.7 FGA/G)
06 - 215/258, 83.3% (3.3 FGA/G)
05 - 122/144, 84.7% (1.8 FGA/G)
04 - 96/123, 78.0% (1.6 FGA/G)

Driving Dunks (by NBA.com)

14 - 7/8 (.32/G)
13 - 20/20 (.26/G)
12 - 16/17 (.27/G)
11 - 27/27 (.34/G)
10 - 22/22 (.29/G)
09 - 20/20 (.25/G)
08 - 24/24 (.32/G)
07 - 36/36 (.46/G)
06 - 26/27 (.34/G)

He didn't do 03-04 and 04-05 for the driving dunks. But anyhow, arifgokcen posted this article here over the summer:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/62471/lebron-james-vs-father-time

so if we're using half-court drives as a criterion in determining level athleticism for LeBron, he hasn't lost much (or any, really) in that regard as he's aged.

[red1]

From another forum a few days ago:



He didn't do 03-04 and 04-05 for the driving dunks. But anyhow, arifgokcen posted this article here over the summer:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/62471/lebron-james-vs-father-time

so if we're using half-court drives as a criterion in determining level athleticism for LeBron, he hasn't lost much (or any, really) in that regard as he's aged.
oh his first step is definitely slower. all you would have to do to see is view a few youtube highlights

[magnax1]

he lost something. anyone who's been watching closely can tell, its not in the stats or awards but its noticeable. it might be more to accurate to say that he gained something because im sure it has to do with his weight, he is nowhere near as dominant in the half-court anymore. the transition is still there and he now compensates for the decline in blow-by abilty in other ways but he hardly breaks his man down of the dribble now
I've watched his whole career, and he's definitely more effective now.

[Twiens]

23 was a whole lot faster, I'd probably take him.

[fpliii]

oh his first step is definitely slower. all you would have to do to see is view a few youtube highlights

I'd agree with that. I guess his muscle is just compensating? His vert and open-court speed still seem to be there, but you're probably right about his first step (though his lateral quickness doesn't seem far off).

[GrapeApe]

He's clearly a better player now. He's a better shooter, better defender, has a better post game, commits less turnovers, and is more mentally advanced. People are confusing athletic prime with basketball prime.

[NumberSix]

Number six

[TheCorporation]

23 Cleveland LeBron is MUCHHH better than Heat LeBron, not even a debate.

Cleveland LeBron was incredible, truly an absolute legend

LeBron has NEVER had a performance as good as his performance against the pistons in 2007, in which, at the age of TWENTYTWO, scored the last TWENTYFIVE points for the cavaliers. Has Wilt even done that in a regular season game? Must be some sort of record

Heat LeBron doesnt have the explosion or the incredible clutchness that cleveland lebron had.

People forget 2007 game 5, and say bullshit like "he only scored 48, dudes have scored more in the playoffs"

You dumbshits are forgetting he scored the last TWENTYFIVE points, no cavalier made a point during that timespan, it was 1v5.

Heat LeBron has no bounce on his dunks.

It saddens me that LeBron regressed so much, lebron in 2007 was an absolute beast, a terror to be reckoned with. He essentially destroyed the pistons dynasty of the mid 2000s.

On the other hand, Heat LeBron needs ray allen to hit his shots for him:(
:cry:

2007 game 5 lebron, boy, that was a performance for the ages, it was 1v5

Regressed so much? :coleman:

First off, he IS in his 11th season now, not like it's his 5th season playing. And, his efficiency is off the charts, and I see your Detroit Pistons game, and raise you a Game 6 in Boston 45-15-5 game, on 73, yes, 73% shooting...

[Solefade]

If you asked Lebron he would say #6 x1000

[Fawker]

#23 over used lebron vs. #6 with help and wisdom? What climate is the NBA in now and which Lebron won under those climates? Sorry Cleveland. Stop being poor.

[MavsSuperFan]

If you asked Lebron he would say #6 x1000
I would also, but of course he would, who wouldnt say they were better now than they were years ago. Unless it was super obvious they had declined almost anyone would say they had gotten better

I will say this for cleveland Lebron. He took over the game more. New lebron seems like he avoids shooting at times.

[Solefade]

Everyone that says 23 is better is dumb, they're the same people that say Kobe's fg's are worth more than lebrons because they're more difficult. :lol

[Meticode]

LeBron is a better overall player now than he ever was in Cleveland. While he might not be as quick as he was, he's still the quickest guy at his size in the league. He doesn't have to strictly depend upon athleticism to score now. Which is why some people felt he would decline fast because he depended so much on that.

I think Cleveland LeBron was more dominate, but he's a much smarter player not, and more effective.

[Mr. Jabbar]

6 doesn't have blood on his hands

[NumberSix]

LeBron is a better overall player now than he ever was in Cleveland. While he might not be as quick as he was, he's still the quickest guy at his size in the league. He doesn't have to strictly depend upon athleticism to score now. Which is why some people felt he would decline fast because he depended so much on that.

I think Cleveland LeBron was more dominate, but he's a much smarter player not, and more effective.
I think LeBron is more fortunate in Miami in the sense that he can play his game that he WANTS to play. I think he can still dominate on pure athletic ability, but that's not the game he wants to play. He wants to play the floor general type of game.

[fpliii]

Everyone that says 23 is better is dumb, they're the same people that say Kobe's fg's are worth more than lebrons because they're more difficult. :lol
I know what you're saying, but more difficult FGs are perhaps more valuable. If you can hit long 2s or convert from midrange/the post, you'll be in excellent shape in the playoffs. Great defenses that you'll face in the postseason are more willing to concede more difficult shots (while closely guarding the more efficient drives and threes), so by making hard shots at a good clip you're thwarting your opponent's strategy, and forcing them to respect those shots, opening up easier/more efficient shots for yourself and your teammates.

Contested shots are similar. If you have a talent for making them, you'll draw more help defenders over for double- and triple-teams, and create an open look for your teammate. This was a big part of why the recent Kobe-Pau Lakers squads were successful offensively (Kobe converted difficult shots opening up Pau from the post and midrange, and Pau's ability to make shots from both opened shots up for the rest of the squad to cut or shoot threes).

Obviously Kobe has a poor shot selection at time, and LeBron is better and perhaps smarter at picking his spots. But Kobe taking and making difficult shots definitely helps his teammates out tremendously for the above reasons.

[knicksman]

Everyone that says 23 is better is dumb, they're the same people that say Kobe's fg's are worth more than lebrons because they're more difficult. :lol

clearly you dont understand basketball. Its the reason why lebron formed a superteam coz he easily get stopped in the playoffs. Hes not as good as kobe in making tough shots. Actually hes defended like a role player yet couldnt produce. Its like choosing a cook who can wash the dishes and clean the kitchen over a lazy cook but better at cooking.

Its fine to chose the all around cook if you can only chose 1 but basketball is a team game so you can actually look for other players to do the lesser role. Tough shot creation is the hardest role a basketball player can have and only true alphas would ever dare play it. While betas are content with lesser roles and cheap rings

[Quickening]

Lol at Kobe fans saying 23 LeBron whilst constantly talking about how winning rings is the indication of who's the best player.... 5>2 right? So 2>0... *******s

[I<3NBA]

6 bcuz ringz.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Assuming this is #6 12-present vs #23 08-10. #6. Better jumper better post game.

[nycjeff45]

23 lebron was fcking fun to watch, dude was just dangerous...

[raprap]

LeBron 23 was great. I missed watching him dominate games regularly. :bowdown:

[lefthook00]

You know a players athleticism is declining b/c the frequency of dunks go down, his actual max vertical usually doesn't drop 'til later. An aging player can usually muster up a spectacular dunk just like his old days, but he won't be doing it as often. See Kobe's double pump dunk against the Hornets, got a great jump on that one but we know he couldn't fly around like that all game like when he was younger. James still has that crazy vert but you don't see him going nuts all game like he used to.

That being said, I think 23 LeBron could have won championships with the Heat as well.

[branslowski]

23 LeBron was more dominant and better IMO, but 6 LeBron is more efficient and have a better team.

23 LeBron's dominant games was 40pts 10reb 8ast on 16/27 FG any night, basically left his print on the game.

6 LeBron's dominant games are these 26pt 7reb 8ast on 7/10 FG any night type games.

[Trollsmasher]

6 is better, but there was just something about 23 that was more exciting.

[Solefade]

clearly you dont understand basketball. Its the reason why lebron formed a superteam coz he easily get stopped in the playoffs. Hes not as good as kobe in making tough shots. Actually hes defended like a role player yet couldnt produce. Its like choosing a cook who can wash the dishes and clean the kitchen over a lazy cook but better at cooking.

Its fine to chose the all around cook if you can only chose 1 but basketball is a team game so you can actually look for other players to do the lesser role. Tough shot creation is the hardest role a basketball player can have and only true alphas would ever dare play it. While betas are content with lesser roles and cheap rings

shut the fk up

[upside24]

I'd like to agree with you, but I just can't. That's no doubt one of his greatest performances. But this game takes the cake no question, no debate.

http://youtu.be/_7kkbpcgXI8

The amount of pressure that was on him to deliver that big of a game like he did. No other player in sports history had that much pressure LeBron had that game.

He came in right from tip-off, dominated 3 straight quarters and never looked back. If we lost that game and LeBron didn't deliver, I just don't know how he would recover from that mentally.

That Pistons game is definitely top 5 though.
The "No Emotion" game as it was coined was IMO LeBron's most impressive game.

Like you stated he had the most pressure of any athlete I can remember and he played exceptionally.

23 LeBron may have been more athletic and exciting to watch, but 6 LeBron is a much better player all around and is more enjoyable to watch IMO. His evolution including his improved shooting, shot selection and drastically improved post game makes him so much better it's ridiculous.

I just feel fortunate to be able to watch him along with CP3 and Durant. We NBA fans are spoiled right now.

[VIntageNOvel]

clearly you dont understand basketball. Its the reason why lebron formed a superteam coz he easily get stopped in the playoffs. Hes not as good as kobe in making tough shots. Actually hes defended like a role player yet couldnt produce. Its like choosing a cook who can wash the dishes and clean the kitchen over a lazy cook but better at cooking.

Its fine to chose the all around cook if you can only chose 1 but basketball is a team game so you can actually look for other players to do the lesser role. Tough shot creation is the hardest role a basketball player can have and only true alphas would ever dare play it. While betas are content with lesser roles and cheap rings

agree, those eye candy numberis actually not as impactful, he takes rebound from bosh, and playmaking from wade, turn them into spot up shooter. it works since wade decide to take a back seat, or else 2011 would happens

23 bron is more mj kobesque,
it just that in 2010 he gave up and quit on believing in himself,
sad, he just need to wait few more years and he could win the right way in cavs

[EnoughSaid]

LeBron is heavier now. That's the only difference physically. He's a much better shooter, defender, playmaker, post player, etc. While maybe he's not as quick as he used to be, LeBron is now more skilled and developed as a player.