Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1969 WC 1 Round

[julizaver]

Game 1 26.03.1969 - SFW win 99-94

Wilt 48 min 11 pts (5-11 FG, 1-3 FT), 30 rebs, 3 asts
Nate 48 min 15 pts (6-16 FG, 3-6 FT), 27 rebs, 8 asts

Game 2 28.03.1969 - SFW win 107-101

Wilt 41 min 10 pts (4-10 FG, 2-9 FT), 17 rebs, 1 asts
Nate 48 min 27 pts (11-18 FG, 5-6 FT), 28 rebs, 4 asts, 14 blks

Game 3 31.03.1969 - Lakers win 115-98

Wilt 44 min 22 pts (9-14 FG, 4-13 FT), 28 rebs, 5 asts, 8 blks
Nate 44 min 22 pts (8-20 FG, 6-11 FT), 20 rebs, 5 asts, 8 blks

Game 4 02.04.1969 - Lakers win 103-88

Wilt 42 min 11 pts (4-10 FG, 3-6 FT), 14 rebs, 3 asts, 9 blks
Nate 36 min 10 pts (3-13 FG, 4-5 FT), 15 rebs, 4 asts, 3 blks

Game 5 04.04.1969 - Lakers win 103-98

Wilt 48 min 7 pts (3-6 FG, 1-3 FT), 27 rebs, 2 asts, 10 blks
Nate 48 min 18 pts (9-22 FG, 0-3 FT), 13 rebs, 6 asts

Game 6 05.04.1969 - Lakers win 118-78

Wilt 39 min 11 pts (5-9 FG, 1-3 FT), 25 rebs, 1 ast, 10 blks
Nate 29 min 8 pts (3-13 FG, 2-3 FT), 14 rebs, 1 ast

For the series:

Wilt 43.7 mpg 12 ppg, 23.5 rpg, 2.5 apg on 50.0 % FG and 32.4 % FT
Nate 42.2 mpg 16.7 ppg, 19.5 rpg, 4.7 apg on 0.392 % FG and 58.8 % FT

Unofficial stats: Wilt blocked 37 shots in the last four games, Nate blocked 25 shots in the known 3 games (For some of the games there are some different numbers in different sources, but we speak about 1-2 blocks, so it wouldn't affect the general picture).

[Psileas]

Thurmond became probably the first player who outplayed Wilt in back to back playoff games and the Warriors took a 0-2 lead, then Wilt came back, outplayed Thurmond in 4 in a row and so did the Lakers (duh, that choker Thurmond...).

BTW, as tough as Thurmond was, his teams would at times lose big time. They lost the last game of this series by 40, they later lost to the Bucks by 50 and a regular season game to the '72 Lakers by like 63.

[Psileas]

BTW, nbastats estimates Wilt's game by game blocked shots as 6, 11, 11, 7, 14 and 15. I also read somewhere that Wilt had blocked 9 shots in the 1st half of game 5 alone.

[julizaver]

BTW, nbastats estimates Wilt's game by game blocked shots as 6, 11, 11, 7, 14 and 15. I also read somewhere that Wilt had blocked 9 shots in the 1st half of game 5 alone.

Those numbers are estimates, I have only posted exact numbers from archive articles.
I can prove it by uploading here (some of them are saved on my local disk).
Yes, in Game 5 Wilt blocked 9 shots in the first half.

[Pointguard]

Do any of you know if Thurmond played classic prototype center or was he playing hustle center like DH does now?

Thanks

[CavaliersFTW]

Do any of you know if Thurmond played classic prototype center or was he playing hustle center like DH does now?

Thanks
What does classic prototype vs hustle even mean? Be more specific I guess and I can try to help based on footage, I've seen a lot of footage of his. He had an extremely high motor, but that doesn't mean he also wasn't a traditional big. He played in the pivot, offensively and defensively. He played good position defense on his man, and tried to flat out shut down the basket from ANYONE whether it be his man or a guard driving in too close, he looks like he went after everything he could within the key and even a little bit outside depending on where the help was.

I do have this break-down btw of all his touches/activity of a game later in his career past his prime, but it shows what kind of shots he was comfortable taking, how he moved and saw the floor, etc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhPmER4HHA

[Pointguard]

What does classic prototype vs hustle even mean? Be more specific I guess and I can try to help based on footage, I've seen a lot of footage of his. He had an extremely high motor, but that doesn't mean he also wasn't a traditional big. He played in the pivot, offensively and defensively. He played good position defense on his man, and tried to flat out shut down the basket from ANYONE whether it be his man or a guard driving in too close, he looks like he went after everything he could within the key and even a little bit outside depending on where the help was.

I do have this break-down btw of all his touches/activity of a game later in his career past his prime, but it shows what kind of shots he was comfortable taking, how he moved and saw the floor, etc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhPmER4HHA
Yeah, you got it.

Classic prototype would be the Wilt/Kareem/Walton/Hakeem/Shaq this college kid Embid tradition: Classic post, center of offense, read the defense, repost make move or operate out of post and cover a radius from the hoop. Hustle players don't have a very defined way of playing like Ben Wallace, or DH now, most of the league's centers right now.

[Pointguard]

CavsFTW, Thurmond was definitely a hustle center in that clip. A very definite majority of his post ups were 15 feet away from the basket and out of his range. At this stage in his career he should know where he's effective and how to get there?

Dwight Howard was making the move toward being a classical post prototype center but now has moved away from that. So there could be reasons as to why a player might do that. I don't know enough of Nate's background to suggest anything. But at that time in history, centers knew what their value was and played toward their height. They developed their skills around the basket and knew how to get to their strengths. The prototype classical centers were like that.

[julizaver]

CavsFTW, Thurmond was definitely a hustle center in that clip. A very definite majority of his post ups were 15 feet away from the basket and out of his range. At this stage in his career he should know where he's effective and how to get there?

Dwight Howard was making the move toward being a classical post prototype center but now has moved away from that. So there could be reasons as to why a player might do that. I don't know enough of Nate's background to suggest anything. But at that time in history, centers knew what their value was and played toward their height. They developed their skills around the basket and knew how to get to their strengths. The prototype classical centers were like that.

Thurmond value is in the defensive end. And it was that during his whole career.

[La Frescobaldi]

CavsFTW, Thurmond was definitely a hustle center in that clip. A very definite majority of his post ups were 15 feet away from the basket and out of his range. At this stage in his career he should know where he's effective and how to get there?

Dwight Howard was making the move toward being a classical post prototype center but now has moved away from that. So there could be reasons as to why a player might do that. I don't know enough of Nate's background to suggest anything. But at that time in history, centers knew what their value was and played toward their height. They developed their skills around the basket and knew how to get to their strengths. The prototype classical centers were like that.

Thurmond was closer to what you are saying about a 'hustle center' on offense. He was dangerous to 20' & didn't care where his post game started. He would post up forwards, guards, it didn't matter at all. However if you are going to distingush you'd have to add a lot of guys that you might consider 'traditional.'

Moses Malone was a great post player but his jumper was good from anywhere. Earlier days Kareem had a drop dead 18 footer all the way round the basket, and you better believe Dirk never got his shot off as high as Jabbar did. Chamberlain was great with the fadeaway to 15' - Kevin Garnett basically stole Wilt Chamberlain's offense and built his entire career around it, from that turnaround fadeaway off the block, to waving the ball over a cutter's head, to the amazing assists & off-ball screens - and it's very very forgotten about Wilt's 7 or 8' jumper in the key below the free throw line but it was money.

But Nate you must remember played forward coming into the league - out of position, but what are you gonna do with Chamberlain at the C? Thus his game started off more to the outside and it would have just been natural to keep that awesome outside threat.
He was a little streaky, on the downside... he could miss in epic numbers when he was cold - unlike his brother the completely unstoppable Rick Barry who as far as I can remember was NEVER EVER cold. But when his jumper was falling, Nate Thurmond & Rick Barry were the original Splash Brothers.

Yeah I can see where you would say, Nate Thurmond in many ways was the original or prototype for many of today's centers. Nikola Pekovic is the great example today of the classic old-school center - that style I love best of all; but many of today's centers want to play like forwards, to the contemptible absurdity of a bynum who wants and demands to shoot 3s.

[LAZERUSS]

Thurmond became probably the first player who outplayed Wilt in back to back playoff games and the Warriors took a 0-2 lead, then Wilt came back, outplayed Thurmond in 4 in a row and so did the Lakers (duh, that choker Thurmond...).

BTW, as tough as Thurmond was, his teams would at times lose big time. They lost the last game of this series by 40, they later lost to the Bucks by 50 and a regular season game to the '72 Lakers by like 63.

And how about game three of the '73 WCF's, which took place in Oakland (and I was there to see it)? The Lakers crushed Nate's (and Barry's) Warriors, 126-70. Oh, and in game two of the '67 Finals, Chamberlain's Sixers murdered Nate's (and Barry's) Warriors, 126-95.


As for this series...just another example of no center ever outplaying Wilt in the post-season. And this was against a Chamberlain who played well below his normal standards.

[Pointguard]

However if you are going to distingush you'd have to add a lot of guys that you might consider 'traditional.'

Moses Malone was a great post player but his jumper was good from anywhere. Earlier days Kareem had a drop dead 18 footer all the way round the basket, and you better believe Dirk never got his shot off as high as Jabbar did. Chamberlain was great with the fadeaway to 15' - Kevin Garnett basically stole Wilt Chamberlain's offense and built his entire career around it, from that turnaround fadeaway off the block, to waving the ball over a cutter's head, to the amazing assists & off-ball screens - and it's very very forgotten about Wilt's 7 or 8' jumper in the key below the free throw line but it was money.

But Nate you must remember played forward coming into the league - out of position, but what are you gonna do with Chamberlain at the C? Thus his game started off more to the outside and it would have just been natural to keep that awesome outside threat.
He was a little streaky, on the downside... he could miss in epic numbers when he was cold - unlike his brother the completely unstoppable Rick Barry who as far as I can remember was NEVER EVER cold. But when his jumper was falling, Nate Thurmond & Rick Barry were the original Splash Brothers.

Yeah I can see where you would say, Nate Thurmond in many ways was the original or prototype for many of today's centers. Nikola Pekovic is the great example today of the classic old-school center - that style I love best of all; but many of today's centers want to play like forwards, to the contemptible absurdity of a bynum who wants and demands to shoot 3s.

Good Post.

Pete Newell taught basic traditional center from the Wilt model til the at least the late 80's. You could see the trend in different players. There were a basic set of skills that you saw in most of the centers that you rarely see now. KG learned most things himself. So he was watching films and just copyng things he saw.

[LAZERUSS]

As evidenced by this series, Chamberlain was the game's greatest shot-blocker. I also find it fascinating that in their known H2H's, Wilt murdered Russell in blocked shots. He slaughtered Kareem in that category, as well.

Of course, we now know that Wilt, in his LAST season, averaged 5.42 bpg. And for those that might suggest that KAJ or Nate were as good...in the very next season, when the NBA actually began to "officially" record blocked shots, KAJ averaged 3.5 and Nate was at 2.9.

And I believe that Psileas had Wilt with between 6-7 bpg in his 71-72 season, too.

What we really need though, is Wilt's blocks from the 60's. Even Harvey Pollack commented that he has entire seasons of 10+.

[LAZERUSS]

Good Post.

Pete Newell taught basic traditional center from the Wilt model til the at least the late 80's. You could see the trend in different players. There were a basic set of skills that you saw in most of the centers that you rarely see now. KG learned most things himself. So he was watching films and just copping things he was.

KG is a great comparison. A prime "scoring" Wilt looked very much like a prime Garnett. Maybe not quite the extended range that KG had, but from up to 15 feet they were nearly identical.

[julizaver]

And how about game three of the '73 WCF's, which took place in Oakland (and I was there to see it)? The Lakers crushed Nate's (and Barry's) Warriors, 126-70. Oh, and in game two of the '67 Finals, Chamberlain's Sixers murdered Nate's (and Barry's) Warriors, 126-95.


As for this series...just another example of no center ever outplaying Wilt in the post-season. And this was against a Chamberlain who played well below his normal standards.

I will create a new thread about '73 series.
I think the data for '67 series is widespread all over the net and there is no need to post it. I could only add that Nate Thurmond blocked 9 shots in Game 2 (Sixers win) and 8 shots in Game 5 (Warriors win).

[julizaver]

As evidenced by this series, Chamberlain was the game's greatest shot-blocker. I also find it fascinating that in their known H2H's, Wilt murdered Russell in blocked shots. He slaughtered Kareem in that category, as well.

Of course, we now know that Wilt, in his LAST season, averaged 5.42 bpg. And for those that might suggest that KAJ or Nate were as good...in the very next season, when the NBA actually began to "officially" record blocked shots, KAJ averaged 3.5 and Nate was at 2.9.

And I believe that Psileas had Wilt with between 6-7 bpg in his 71-72 season, too.

What we really need though, is Wilt's blocks from the 60's. Even Harvey Pollack commented that he has entire seasons of 10+.

Nate Thurmond was very good shot-blocker especially in his younger days, later in his career the multiple injuries took his toll. Judging by sources and available data I can suggest that after 1970 his shot-blocking numbers decreased.
Unlike Chamberlain, who averaged 7 bpg in his first 10 games during '73 playoffs (49 in 7 games vs Bulls and 21 or 22 in first 3 games vs Warriors).

[LAZERUSS]

I will create a new thread about '73 series.
I think the data for '67 series is widespread all over the net and there is no need to post it. I could only add that Nate Thurmond blocked 9 shots in Game 2 (Sixers win) and 8 shots in Game 5 (Warriors win).

I have seen some sources with Chamberlain having 10+ blocks in the '67 Finals, too. I believe 15 in one of them.

[julizaver]

I have seen some sources with Chamberlain having 10+ blocks in the '67 Finals, too. I believe 15 in one of them.

The known to me numbers (according to my notes) for '67 Finals are as follows:

Game 1
Wilt - 9 blocked shots
Nate NA

Game 2
Wilt - 10 blocked shots
Nate - 9 blocked shots

Game 3
Wilt NA
Nate NA

Game 4*
Wilt - 10 blocked shots (according to reporter who counted, according to Sharman at least 15)
Nate - several (according to Oakland Tribune)

*After that game several articles credited Wilt with at least 40 blocked shots in first 4 games.

Game 5
Wilt - NA
Thurmond 8 blocked shots

Game 6
Wilt - at least 6 blocked shots
Nate - several (according to Oakland Tribune)

[LAZERUSS]

As a sidenote to their '73 playoff series H2H's...Chamberlain outrebounded Thurmond, who came in second to Wilt during the regular season, by a staggering 6.4 rpg! Just another example of a post-season Wilt's absolute domination of the glass against EVERY center he faced in his 29 post-season series.

Oh, and I could only find two series, in the 29 in which Chamberlain played, in which Wilt's opposing starting center shot .500 or better. In one, the '64 WDF's, Beatty shot .521...but Wilt outscored him by a 39-14 ppg margin, and outshot him .559 to .521. And in the '72 Finals, in which Lucas shot an .500 (Wilt shot .600 BTW)...but, Lucas hit 9 of his first 11 shots from the floor, and then went 37-81 (.457) the rest of the way.

In fact, Chamberlain was ROUTINELY holding his opposing centers (including Kareem and Bellamy) to WAY below their normal FG%'s. And we know that Wilt even reduced Russell's FG% more than Russell reduced his in their 143 career H2H's.

[LAZERUSS]

The known to me numbers (according to my notes) for '67 Finals are as follows:

Game 1
Wilt - 9 blocked shots
Nate NA

Game 2
Wilt - 10 blocked shots
Nate - 9 blocked shots

Game 3
Wilt NA
Nate NA

Game 4*
Wilt - 10 blocked shots (according to reporter who counted, according to Sharman at least 15)
Nate - several (according to Oakland Tribune)

*After that game several articles credited Wilt with at least 40 blocked shots in first 4 games.

Game 5
Wilt - NA
Thurmond 8 blocked shots

Game 6
Wilt - at least 6 blocked shots
Nate - several (according to Oakland Tribune)

Just using your game two...Chamberlain had a QUAD-DOUBLE... 10-38-10-10.

[La Frescobaldi]

I have seen some sources with Chamberlain having 10+ blocks in the '67 Finals, too. I believe 15 in one of them.
from an old thread, although it is about the EDF not the Finals:


Well, if full paragraphs describing how Chamberlain wreaked total havoc on the Celtics offense isn't plain enough, try these.

1967 Eastern Division Finals

Game 1.
Russell 20 pts 15 rebs 4 assists
Chamberlain 24 pts 32 rebs 13 assists + 12 blocks

(the blocks were reported by Sports Illustrated.)

That's a Chamberlain quadruple double.

Game 2.

Russell 14 pts 24 rebs 5 asts
Chamberlain 15 pts 29 rebs 5 asts

Game 3
Russell 10 pts 29 rebs 2 asts
Chamberlain 20 pts 41 rebs 9 asts

Chamberlain's 41 rebounds against Russell is the NBA playoff record.

Game 4
Russell 9 pts 28 rebs 5 asts
Chamberlain 20 pts 22 rebs 10 asts

Chamberlain with the triple double against Russell.

Game 5
Russell 4 pts 21 rebs 7 asts
Chamberlain 29 pts 36 rebs 13 asts

Chamberlain with the triple double against Russell.

*****************

Nobody knew about triple double, or quadruple double back then. There was no such thing. Those terms were invented many years later. But that game 5 brought on a debate that has raged for 40 years.

One of my friends marked his scorecard to show Chamberlain with 16 blocks, but another friend had it with only 15. They still argue about it.

But even without knowing what a quadruple double was (and maybe Harvey Pollack knows the answer), it was plain to everyone that Chamberlain had demolished Russell in every possible way.

****************************
Playoff lines:
Russell 11 ppg 23 rpg 4 apg
Chamberlain 21 ppg 32 rpg 10 apg

Wilt Chamberlain averaged a triple double against Bill Russell over the entire series, and had (at least according to Sports Illustrated & some basketball maniacs in the bleachers) 2 quadruple doubles.

So yeah, what I said before....
"Russell could barely keep up with him, let alone hold his own."

that pretty much sums it up.

****************************


I dunno about 10 blocks average over the playoffs. He had 10 at least once in those Finals, including a sensational 4 in a row in one possession that blew all the air out of the arena. But I've never seen anyone take over a series the way he did that one against the Celtics. And it stays my view always - he was better in '68.

[LAZERUSS]

from an old thread, although it is about the EDF not the Finals:


I dunno about 10 blocks average over the playoffs. He had 10 at least once in those Finals, including a sensational 4 in a row in one possession that blew all the air out of the arena. But I've never seen anyone take over a series the way he did that one against the Celtics. And it stays my view always - he was better in '68.

Here again, a PRIME Chamberlain was the most dominant center, including the post-season, of all-time. He was outscoring, outrebounding, outassisting, outshooting, and outblocking his peers, most all of whom are in the HOF, by HUGE margins.

As for your take on '68...Chamberlain was playing with several injuries, including a partial tear in his quad, and in which recaps had him NOTICEABLY LIMPING. Still, he played nearly every minute of the post-season (which included three straight games without a day off in the Knicks' series), and in which he averaged 23.7 ppg, 24.7 rpg, 6.5 apg, .534 FG%. He was the highest scorer, rebounder, and had the most assists in the Knick series, all while outshooting Bellamy from the field, .584 to .421 (and Bellamy had shot .541 against the NBA during the regular season.)

[Psileas]

Nate Thurmond was very good shot-blocker especially in his younger days, later in his career the multiple injuries took his toll. Judging by sources and available data I can suggest that after 1970 his shot-blocking numbers decreased.
Unlike Chamberlain, who averaged 7 bpg in his first 10 games during '73 playoffs (49 in 7 games vs Bulls and 21 or 22 in first 3 games vs Warriors).

That's a testament to Wilt's incredible reflexes, especially for a big. Of course, Wilt loved to perform some spectacular blocked shots, some even 2+ feet above the rim and, unlike his speed and quickness, his vertical remained pretty strong even after his 1969+1970 injuries (except probably the '70 playoffs), but he had the timing (and size) to perform the kinds of blocks that don't need a huge vertical to be performed.

[julizaver]

from an old thread, although it is about the EDF not the Finals:

I dunno about 10 blocks average over the playoffs. He had 10 at least once in those Finals, including a sensational 4 in a row in one possession that blew all the air out of the arena. But I've never seen anyone take over a series the way he did that one against the Celtics. And it stays my view always - he was better in '68.

The archive newspapers credited Wilt with 7 blocked shots in Game 5 against Celtics.

[Psileas]

I dunno about 10 blocks average over the playoffs. He had 10 at least once in those Finals, including a sensational 4 in a row in one possession that blew all the air out of the arena. But I've never seen anyone take over a series the way he did that one against the Celtics. And it stays my view always - he was better in '68.

You mean he was better in the 1968 season?
What I see is that in 1967 he was probably a bit more disciplined, focusing on the title that he had never won, team play, etc. In 1968, he performs a bit more frequently some of his old-style dominant games (50 pointers, consecutive 30+ pointers, etc), then he started posting one triple double after another, he seemingly had more versatility in his dominance.
As we know, Wilt in 1968 wanted to win the passing title. But what I haven't figured out is when he decide to perform this - was it something he'd persuade regardless of conditions or was it because Oscar missed some games early on and Wilt took the lead and decided to keep it? What I definitely believe, of course, is that this isn't what kept him from beating the Celtics again, like some claim - this is ridiculous, it's like saying that Jordan's quest for triple-doubles in 1989 was the reason the Bulls later lost to the Pistons.

[julizaver]

That's a testament to Wilt's incredible reflexes, especially for a big. Of course, Wilt loved to perform some spectacular blocked shots, some even 2+ feet above the rim and, unlike his speed and quickness, his vertical remained pretty strong even after his 1969+1970 injuries (except probably the '70 playoffs), but he had the timing (and size) to perform the kinds of blocks that don't need a huge vertical to be performed.

According to Nate himself Wilt "could leap very high" when he wanted. And he also stated that due to Wilt's leaping ability he should take his shots with very high ark resulting in low shooting percentage. There are so many games in which Wilt just closed the lanes for easy basket.

According to Wilt - his knees were sore in '70 and '71 season, but in 1972 he was in better physical shape and condition, something noticed by his former coach Joe Mullaney when seeing Wilt played in '72.

[LAZERUSS]

You mean he was better in the 1968 season?
What I see is that in 1967 he was probably a bit more disciplined, focusing on the title that he had never won, team play, etc. In 1968, he performs a bit more frequently some of his old-style dominant games (50 pointers, consecutive 30+ pointers, etc), then he started posting one triple double after another, he seemingly had more versatility in his dominance.
As we know, Wilt in 1968 wanted to win the passing title. But what I haven't figured out is when he decide to perform this - was it something he'd persuade regardless of conditions or was it because Oscar missed some games early on and Wilt took the lead and decided to keep it? What I definitely believe, of course, is that this isn't what kept him from beating the Celtics again, like some claim - this is ridiculous, it's like saying that Jordan's quest for triple-doubles in 1989 was the reason the Bulls later lost to the Pistons.

I have read Bill Simmons, and other's, making that ridiculous claim, as well. From what I have read, Chamberlain set out to lead the league in assists in '68 as some kind of personal motivation. Of course, the Wilt-bashers use that as a reason that his Sixers lost in seven games to the Celtics in the '68 EDF's. However, they will never acknowledge that this act of "selfishness" resulted in the Sixers running away with the best record in the league, at 62-20. Nor will they bring up the fact that the Sixers were just decimated by injuries in the '68 EDF's, including Wilt, himself. Nope. It was WILT's fault.

[Psileas]

According to Nate himself Wilt "could leap very high" when he wanted. And he also stated that due to Wilt's leaping ability he should take his shots with very high ark resulting in low shooting percentage. There are so many games in which Wilt just closed the lanes for easy basket.

According to Wilt - his knees were sore in '70 and '71 season, but in 1972 he was in better physical shape and condition, something noticed by his former coach Joe Mullaney when seeing Wilt played in '72.

And even with sore knees in 1970, he blocked 43 shots within only 4 playoff games in a row. We don't have these games available, but I'm willing to bet he wasn't jumping high and frequently for his standards. From 1971, we have 1 playoff game availabe and he performs at least one great jump, along with some of the quick reflexes that I mentioned before.

[La Frescobaldi]

The archive newspapers credited Wilt with 7 blocked shots in Game 5 against Celtics.
you mean in one sequence? :lol

[Pointguard]

According to Nate himself Wilt "could leap very high" when he wanted. And he also stated that due to Wilt's leaping ability he should take his shots with very high ark resulting in low shooting percentage. There are so many games in which Wilt just closed the lanes for easy basket.

According to Wilt - his knees were sore in '70 and '71 season, but in 1972 he was in better physical shape and condition, something noticed by his former coach Joe Mullaney when seeing Wilt played in '72.
I rarely ever see wasted leaps by Wilt. He was really disciplined in that regard. He seemed to jump very late, and definitely after the offensive player left his feet. Sometimes he would go for a rebound he didn't snag but it was well worth the try and he would contend shots that he probably knew he couldn't block but it would make the offensive player adjust.

[dankok8]

Beautiful find Julizaver! :rockon:

If I remember correctly a big reason cited for the Warriors' collapse in the series was the injury of all-star guard Jeff Mullins. He scored 56 points in the first two games and just 30 points in the last four games combined.

[Pointguard]

Moses Malone was a great post player but his jumper was good from anywhere. Earlier days Kareem had a drop dead 18 footer all the way round the basket, and you better believe Dirk never got his shot off as high as Jabbar did. Chamberlain was great with the fadeaway to 15' - Kevin Garnett basically stole Wilt Chamberlain's offense and built his entire career around it, from that turnaround fadeaway off the block, to waving the ball over a cutter's head, to the amazing assists & off-ball screens - and it's very very forgotten about Wilt's 7 or 8' jumper in the key below the free throw line but it was money.

But Nate you must remember played forward coming into the league - out of position, but what are you gonna do with Chamberlain at the C? Thus his game started off more to the outside and it would have just been natural to keep that awesome outside threat.
He was a little streaky, on the downside... he could miss in epic numbers when he was cold - unlike his brother the completely unstoppable Rick Barry who as far as I can remember was NEVER EVER cold. But when his jumper was falling, Nate Thurmond & Rick Barry were the original Splash Brothers.

Yeah I can see where you would say, Nate Thurmond in many ways was the original or prototype for many of today's centers. Nikola Pekovic is the great example today of the classic old-school center - that style I love best of all; but many of today's centers want to play like forwards, to the contemptible absurdity of a bynum who wants and demands to shoot 3s.

Going to do a Kansas sidetrack for a moment.

This Kansas kid Embiid has the ghost of Chamberlain in him. He's not as strong or fluid but he's got the post moves sewed up and he jumps late like Wilt. Never mind he has only been playing three years, I think he's more deadly than anybody in the NBA in the deep post right now if he isn't easy to move out of the post, he's as polished as Al Jefferson with his feet movement. He's as quick and coordinated as DH in the post, but more determined. He plays longer than Bynum, and smarter than Pekovic. Timing better than Larry Sanders. Can make a left handed move as good as DMC. He's the real test to see if the league has just outdated height and the prototype center position.

[Miller for 3]

Going to do a Kansas sidetrack for a moment.

This Kansas kid Embiid has the ghost of Chamberlain in him. He's not as strong or fluid but he's got the post moves sewed up and he jumps late like Wilt. Never mind he has only been playing three years, I think he's more deadly than anybody in the NBA in the deep post right now if he isn't easy to move out of the post, he's as polished as Al Jefferson with his feet movement. He's as quick and coordinated as DH in the post, but more determined. He plays longer than Bynum, and smarter than Pekovic. Timing better than Larry Sanders. Can make a left handed move as good as DMC. He's the real test to see if the league has just outdated height and the prototype center position.

:wtf:

Embiid is nothing like Wilt. Wilt had nowhere near the finese or skill that Embiid has, and Embiid has nowhere near the strength and speed of Wilt. Embiid in the 60s = 50/30/10 averages. Wilt in today's game - 10/5/2 in 24 minutes a game

[Pointguard]

:wtf:

Embiid is nothing like Wilt. Wilt had nowhere near the finese or skill that Embiid has, and Embiid has nowhere near the strength and speed of Wilt. Embiid in the 60s = 50/30/10 averages. Wilt in today's game - 10/5/2 in 24 minutes a game
Wow, how can you post something and then prove you didn't read it.
Didn't I say he didn't have the strength???

The comparison of Wilt to Embiid:

Originally Posted by Pointguard
Going to do a Kansas sidetrack for a moment.

This Kansas kid Embiid has the ghost of Chamberlain in him. He's not as strong or fluid but he's got the post moves sewed up and he jumps late like Wilt.


Wilt had great finesse and skill - do you really think somebody could average 40ppg over seven years without skill?? He rarely played a power game and had the games finest tuned finesse shots - most players can't do a finger roll or a turn-around-bank shot. I am amazed that you did know of Wilt's speed. And do you think starters play 24 minutes a game?