Is Chris Paul the John Stockton of this era?

[Connor B]

Not necessarily in terms of play style/stats - Paul puts up more points, but the average assist numbers are actually similar (despite Stockton's spikes of 13-14 in some seasons), and both were good defenders. Both have/had a tendency to lead the league in assists and steals.

But I see both going down with

- no MVPs
- no rings

Not bashing Paul, but if we are talking about hardware, comparing him to Magic Johnson and other point guards, while he may possibly be as good skill wise, is stupid because he lacks all the awards. So, he is Stockton.

[Purch]

If he can make it to the conference finals at any point in his career....

[Harison]

Stockton was a tough and gritty player, smarter, better defender too. He was nothing like soft whining flopping diva like CP3.

[russwest0]

Stockton was a tough and gritty player, smarter, better defender too. He was nothing like soft whining flopping diva like CP3.

This x10000000.

[Nick Young]

Stockton could atleast get to the finals. CP3 has played with Tyson Chandler and David West as his front court and couldn't do jack shit. He is now on one of the most stacked teams in the league and can't do shit with it. Overrated like no other.

CP3 ball doesn't win titles.

[russwest0]

Why does Chris Paul never seem to catch flack for that Spurs series?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2779/year/2012/chris-paul

If Kevin Durant or LeBron James did that, the amount of hate coming their way would be unbelievable.

[Young X]

If you replace West/Griffin with Malone/Duncan and Del Negro with Sloan/Pop do you guys still see Paul not getting past the 2nd round? Be real.

[Legends66NBA7]

If you replace West/Griffin with Malone/Duncan and Del Negro with Sloan/Pop do you guys still see Paul not getting past the 2nd round? Be real.

He would get out of the 2nd round but he would be the clear sidekick. In a way, that would suggest he's closer to Stockton than it actually is.


His numbers wouldn't be the same as they are today.

[Purch]

Why does Chris Paul never seem to catch flack for that Spurs series?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2779/year/2012/chris-paul

If Kevin Durant or LeBron James did that, the amount of hate coming their way would be unbelievable.
The spurs series? It's all about that Denver series

http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290427003


58 point blowout in a close out game?

[K Xerxes]

Paul is a better player than Stockton. Stockton's become incredibly overrated due to his assist stats, but it was Malone's team without doubt, and Stockton was very much a system player. You give Paul someone on the calliber of Malone and they're making the finals. The best player he's played with is Blake Griffin and he isn't close to sniffing Malone yet.

[Purch]

If you replace West/Griffin with Malone/Duncan and Del Negro with Sloan/Pop do you guys still see Paul not getting past the 2nd round? Be real.
YAwn.

I remember how Hornets fans used to argue that the only reason Deron got to the conference finals, and Pauk didn't was because of talent. Fast foward 3 years of better talent, of a top 3 powerfoward, and what does he do? Get swept by the Grizzlies? Get swept by the Spurs?

The excuses are getting old

[coin24]

Paul is a better player than Stockton. Stockton's become incredibly overrated due to his assist stats, but it was Malone's team without doubt, and Stockton was very much a system player. You give Paul someone on the calliber of Malone and they're making the finals. The best player he's played with is Blake Griffin and he isn't close to sniffing Malone yet.


Stockton >>> CP3 in every aspect of ball and in not being a whiny little flopping diva..
You obviously never watched Stockton play. True professional:applause:

It baffles me how Cp3 always gets a pass. He a front runner who disappears as soon as his team is down.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

CP3 is better than Stockton ever was. If u cant see that u simply dont understand basketball


If he can make it to the conference finals at any point in his career....
This is a fcking retarded argument. If CP3 had

Jerry Sloan
Karl Malone
Mark Eaton
Jeff Hornacek
Greg Ostertag
Byron Russell

He easily wins rings.

[Purch]

Paul is a better player than Stockton. Stockton's become incredibly overrated due to his assist stats, but it was Malone's team without doubt, and Stockton was very much a system player. You give Paul someone on the calliber of Malone and they're making the finals. The best player he's played with is Blake Griffin and he isn't close to sniffing Malone yet.
Rose made the conference finals with Boozer as his second best player.
D-Will made it with Boozer as his second best player.

Why is having Griffin instead of Malone an excuse for such an underwhelming playoff resume

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Rose made the conference finals with Boozer as his second best player.
D-Will made it with Boozer as his second best player.

Why is having Griffin instead of Malone an excuse for such an underwhelming playoff resume
Did u not watch last 2 playoffs? Griffin for injured in the Spurs series in 2012 then in the Memphis series in 2013. You cant be this clueless:facepalm :facepalm

[Purch]

CP3 is better than Stockton ever was. If u cant see that u simply dont understand basketball


This is a fcking retarded argument. If CP3 had

Jerry Sloan
Karl Malone
Mark Eaton
Jeff Hornacek
Greg Ostertag
Byron Russell

He easily wins rings.

Based on what his record of coming up big in the playoffs? Like getting swept by the Grizz, with no perimeter scorer, and home court?

[Purch]

Did u not watch last 2 playoffs? Griffin for injured in the Spurs series in 2012 then in the Memphis series in 2013. You cant be this clueless:facepalm :facepalm
Please don't give me that bs. Z-Bo was banged up those whole playoffs. What team is ever fully healthy in the playoffs?

Don't get me started on the health of Tp, Manu and Duncan at any given time

[Young X]

YAwn.

I remember how Hornets fans used to argue that the only reason Deron got to the conference finals, and Pauk didn't was because of talent. Fast foward 3 years of better talent, of a top 3 powerfoward, and what does he do? Get swept by the Grizzlies? Get swept by the Spurs?

The excuses are getting oldIt's not an excuse, it's reality.

Look at how terrible Griffin (who was injured) and DJ played in the playoffs last season. That's not talent.

He hasn't played with a reliable supporting cast in the playoffs yet, pair CP with Malone, Duncan, Durant, Wade (aka more support) and he wins alot more. Simple.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Based on what his record of coming up big in the playoffs? Like getting swept by the Grizz, with no perimeter scorer, and home court?
Griffin was injured and the series still went 6 games. You literally have no clue what youre talking about. Griffin avged 13/5 45% shoot

[Purch]

It's not an excuse, it's reality.

Look at how terrible Griffin (who was injured) and DJ played in the playoffs last season. That's not talent.

Pair CP with Malone, Duncan, Durant, Wade (aka more support) and he wins alot more. Simple.
Bull, complete. This isn't Kg's supporting cast from the early 2000's. Griffin is a top 3 powerfowrd at worst.

The way people make excuses for you would belive he was Lebron playing with Mo Williams S his second option

[Purch]

Griffin was injured and the series still went 6 games. You literally have no clue what youre talking about. Griffin avged 13/5 45% shoot
Really and the fact that Memphis was top 3 defensively had nothing to do with that?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Bull, complete. This isn't Kg's supporting cast from the early 2000's. Griffin is a top 3 powerfowrd at worst.

The way people make excuses for you would belive he was Lebron playing with Mo Williams S his second option
Griffin isnt a top 3 powerforward LOL

Aldridge
Love
Dirk
Davis

are all way better

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Really and the fact that Memphis was top 3 defensively had nothing to do with that?
So CP3 gets blame when a player whos supposedly an allstar cant perform in the playoffs:biggums: :biggums:

CP avged 23/6/4 1 turnover a game 53% shoot against perimieter defense of Conley, Tony, Prince:biggums: :biggums:

Nikka u really that dumb to put the blame on CP:biggums:

[Young X]

Rose made the conference finals with Boozer as his second best player.
D-Will made it with Boozer as his second best player.

Why is having Griffin instead of Malone an excuse for such an underwhelming playoff resumeThe problem is you're just looking at names.

Rose had the #1 defense/rebounding team in the league behind him and played in the east against a 37 win Pacer team and a 44 win Hawk team. Can you see the 08 Hornets losing against ether team? Be smart.

Williams arguably wasn't even the best player on his team that year, what did he do in that run that Paul isn't capable of doing? Be real.

[La Frescobaldi]

CP3 is better than Stockton ever was. If u cant see that u simply dont understand basketball


This is a fcking retarded argument. If CP3 had

Jerry Sloan
Karl Malone
Mark Eaton
Jeff Hornacek
Greg Ostertag
Byron Russell

He easily wins rings.

When? Not any time recently.

That team is not beating Celtics nor Lakers, and it's not beating Miami. They might give Dallas a run

[Purch]

O and you're right about 6 games, I'm not sure why my memory made me remember a sweep. So I can admit a mistake about that

[Purch]

Griffin isnt a top 3 powerforward LOL

Aldridge
Love
Dirk
Davis

are all way better
Anthony Davis is a center, well at least that's what I always classified him as.

Dirk is a good call. I do think with Griffins improved passing game and defense it's closing the gap.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Anthony Davis is a center, well at least that's what I always classified him as.

Dirk is a good call. I do think with Griffins improved passing game and defense it's closing the gap.
I dont think Griffin is better than David Lee, David West or Paul Millsap either.

[AboutBuckets]

I dont think Griffin is better than David Lee, David West or Paul Millsap either.

:biggums:

[La Frescobaldi]

:biggums:
was thinkin the same

[Purch]

The problem is you're just looking at names.

Rose had the #1 defense/rebounding team in the league behind him and played in the east against a 37 win Pacer team and a 44 win Hawk team. Can you see the 08 Hornets losing against ether team? Be smart.

Williams arguably wasn't even the best player on his team that year, what did he do in that run that Paul isn't capable of doing? Be real.

The clippers last season were top 4 in offensive rating and #8 in defensive rating. And they were facing a very subpar offensive team, in the playoffs. Don't make it out like they were playing a contender, or a powerhouse.

See and your questions are exactly where my issue comes from, all of the points about Cp3 are based on hypothetical scenarios in which you guys claim he can be successful.

What I'm saying is if Cp3 is as good a player as you claim, his supporting cast on the clippers has been suffuient enough to perform better in the playoffs. Teams he's lost to like Memphis and Denver weren't powerhouse teams, these are teams that his team performed on par without throughout the whole season.

[Purch]

I've seen Millsap throughout his whole career in Utah, so I might undervalue him based on his last year and a half on the team

[Young X]

What I'm saying is if Cp3 is as good a player as you claim, his supporting cast on the clippers has been suffuient enough to perform better in the playoffs. Teams he's lost to like Memphis and Denver weren't powerhouse teams, these are teams that his team performed on par without throughout the whole season.I'm saying, go back and look at how those same teammates played in those series. The Clippers played on the level of Memphis throughout the regular season because Blake, DJ played at their normal level, in the playoffs they turned into SCRUBS partially because of injuries.

David West, Eric Bledsoe, Matt Barnes, Carl Landry, injured Blake Griffin are the best players he's played with in the playoffs. Look at those players, then look at the teams he's went up against in the west. You need more than average/good players to go far in the west.

[notatop29pg]

Team achievements wise probably. But is a far better player.

[KyleKong]

Do people not remember during that Grizz series Griffin and injured and Del Negro was their head coach?

[Young X]

So many dumb n!ggas on this site.

Someone like Barkley took 8 years to get past the 2nd round as the 1st option. Only got past the 2nd round 3 times in his 16 year career.

KG took 8 years to get past the 1st round.

Oscar took 10 years to past the 2nd round.

Those players weren't playing any better after they went to the conference finals then they did before. Why would you use this as an argument when there were players GREATER than CP that had the same problem?

Stupid.

[La Frescobaldi]

Not bad at all. Jordan took 7 , Chamberlain did too, to win the Finals. Didn't make them any less, just didn't have the teammates around them

[Nick Young]

Why does Chris Paul never seem to catch flack for that Spurs series?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2779/year/2012/chris-paul

If Kevin Durant or LeBron James did that, the amount of hate coming their way would be unbelievable.
People rewrite history for CP3 for some reason

[dankok8]

CP3 has had rather bad luck in his career as well as under-performing teammates...

In '08 playoffs as the #2 seed, they beat a very strong Mavs team and then fell to the defending champs Spurs in 7 hard-fought games. Paul played brilliantly.

In '09 playoffs as the #7 seed, they lost in 5 games to #2 seed Denver. But people are forgetting how great those Nuggets were that year. In fact they were tied 1-1 with LA and looking like a better team. And then Melo went down and they lost. If they stayed healthy that year they could have won it all. After the all-star break they were the best team in the league.

Paul was injured in 09-10 and Hornets missed the playoffs.

In '11 playoffs as the #7 seed, they faced 2-time defending champs Lakers. West was out for the playoffs and Chris Paul played brilliantly pushing the series to 6 games surrounded by scrubs.

In '12 playoffs as the #5 seed they UPSET the Grizz thanks to amazing comebacks in both Game 1 and Game 7. Then in the Spurs series against a #1 seed both Paul and Griffin were injured playing way below their level and the Clips got swept.

In '13 playoffs as the #4 seed, they lost to the Grizz. Paul played well but Griffin and Jordan disappeared.

Seriously I don't want to make excuses but Paul really never had a good enough team to win. Only once could his team even remotely be considered a contender and that's the 07-08 Hornets who were the #2 seed in the West. And even then who could realistically expect them to beat LA or San Antonio?

[joeyjoejoe]

Wow dankok8 surprising to see someone who knows what there talking about, refreshing

[Heavincent]

Lets not act like CP3 is completely blameless for his playoff defeats.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290427003

CP3 is better than Stockton, but I don't get why people think he's better than Kidd. Kidd carried the Nets to the Finals twice, with Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson as the two next best players. I don't think Paul could do that.

[joeyjoejoe]

Early 2000's in the east yeah he could

[tpols]

CP3>John Stockton but hes a first option wheres stockton wasnt. Gonna be tough to win anything when you have to face superior first options like Kobe, Duncan, etc. lebron if cp ever made the finals. Dont see him winning anything unless hes on a really stacked team.

[2LeTTeRS]

Lets not act like CP3 is completely blameless for his playoff defeats.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290427003

CP3 is better than Stockton, but I don't get why people think he's better than Kidd. Kidd carried the Nets to the Finals twice, with Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson as the two next best players. I don't think Paul could do that.

Was making it to the Finals in the East really that big of an accomplishment? Think about it:

- 2001-02: Nets won 52 games (beating the Pacers [42 wins], Hornets [44 wins; led by Baron Davis and old Mashburn], and Celtics [49 wins; with Pierce and Antoine Walker] to make it to the Finals).
- 2002-03: Nets won 49 games (beating Milwaukee [42 wins], Boston again [44 wins], and Detroit [50 wins; but prior to trading for Sheed] to make it to the Finals).

[tpols]

Was making it to the Finals in the East really that big of an accomplishment? Think about it:

- 2001-02: Nets won 52 games (beating the Pacers [42 wins], Hornets [44 wins; led by Baron Davis and old Mashburn], and Celtics [49 wins; with Pierce and Antoine Walker] to make it to the Finals).
- 2002-03: Nets won 49 games (beating Milwaukee [42 wins], Boston again [44 wins], and Detroit [50 wins; but prior to trading for Sheed] to make it to the Finals).
Nets were up on the 04 Pistons 3-2 before Kidd got hurt.. the same pistons that would make back to back finals and look great versus stacked spurs and lakers teams.


Pistons even before sheed were a team on par with Memphis Grizzlies and old spurs that have been knocking CP3's teams out. And after sheed Nets still proved they could hang. Nets were a good team... they just had no big guy to defend Shaq or Duncan. Kidd couldnt affect that and Kmart is way undersized to guard them.

[Bandito]

Not even close. Stockton was one of the best floor general in history, and that's including Euroloeague. Paul is not even close to how good he was.

[joeyjoejoe]

I think its actually very close both don't really have any weakness also think both are better then kidd

[kNicKz]

Stockton > CP3

In every aspect imaginable

[Bigsmoke]

Stockton was never a top 5 player ever in his career.

CP3 is a top 3 player and finishes top 5 in the MVP race annually.

[kNicKz]

Stockton was never a top 5 player ever in his career.

CP3 is a top 3 player and finishes top 5 in the MVP race annually.

strong argument

o yea :

[quote]10

[Bigsmoke]

strong argument

o yea :



http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l487/Northside777/mj-laughing-1.gif

We're going to act like Stockton wouldn't have a field day with high flyers like Blake and a big man like DeAndre?

Stockton higher on the all time list mainly because of longevity. I can respect that. CP3 is better than Stockton when it comes to actual talent.

[kNicKz]

Stockton higher on the all time list mainly because of longevity. I can respect that. CP3 is better than Stockton when it comes to actual talent.

I won't even settle for that. Stockton was simply better in every aspect..I don't see a single thing that CP3 is better at.

This isn't a knock on CP3 either. He's just not as good as John Stockton. There is no shame in that

[Legends66NBA7]

[QUOTE=kNicKz]strong argument

o yea :

10

[Young X]

I won't even settle for that. Stockton was simply better in every aspect..I don't see a single thing that CP3 is better at.Scoring, rebounding, ballhandling, taking over games, more productive, etc.

[Legends66NBA7]

I won't even settle for that. Stockton was simply better in every aspect..I don't see a single thing that CP3 is better at.

Stockton isn't a better scorer, rebounder, or at steals. I would even say Paul takes care of the ball better.

3 point shooting is some what debatable too, but I would give the edge to Stockton.