The Big Ass Second Term/Politics thread part III [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

KevinNYC

01-02-2014, 04:15 AM

Wikileaks Party including Julian Assange's father meets with Bashar al-Assad.

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2013/12/30/1226792/222442-8c1a0cd6-7107-11e3-9f0f-e2ffe37c14de.jpg
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/30/assanges-father-met-assad-in-damascus/
Wikileaks does not know or approve the Wikileaks Party "solidarity" meeting with Assad.

WikiLeaks has said it was unaware of and did not approve a delegation to Syria which met President Bashar al Assad, and reportedly included Julian Assange's father.

It came after Australia's WikiLeaks Party announced it was to to take part in the "solidarity delegation", which it said aimed to show opposition to violence and Western military intervention.

John Shipton, the father of the WikiLeaks founder and chief executive of Australia's WikiLeaks Party, was said to be among those who travelled to the conflict-torn country.

The group met Mr Assad on December 23, according to a post on the Syrian president's Twitter feed.

KevinNYC

01-02-2014, 04:19 AM

Apparently the NSA has total access to iphones (http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/12/30/the-nsa-reportedly-has-total-access-to-your-iphone/)

Awesome!

What does that mean? "Total access to iphones"

rufuspaul

01-02-2014, 11:34 AM

What does that mean? "Total access to iphones"

It means they can download Angry Birds Go.

knickballer

01-02-2014, 12:07 PM

What does that mean? "Total access to iphones"

you know exactly what it means libtard :oldlol:

kNicKz

01-02-2014, 01:09 PM

What does that mean? "Total access to iphones"

[quote]

KevinNYC

01-02-2014, 01:53 PM

So I go to the Apple store and buy an iPhone 5 and activate it.
then what happens?

kNicKz

01-02-2014, 04:00 PM

So I go to the Apple store and buy an iPhone 5 and activate it.
then what happens?

Can you read the English language? The article is in English and is legible. Not rhetorical , but a dead serious question ...

KevinNYC

01-02-2014, 04:34 PM

Can you read the English language? The article is in English and is legible. Not rhetorical , but a dead serious question ...

So please tell me what happens after I turn on my iphone.

longhornfan1234

01-02-2014, 04:36 PM

So please tell me what happens after I turn on my iphone.

Stop trolling.

KevinNYC

01-02-2014, 05:14 PM

Stop trolling.
Not trolling at all. Tell me what happens with my newly activated iPhone 5

kNicKz

01-02-2014, 05:33 PM

So please tell me what happens after I turn on my iphone.

From another 4.5 second glance at the article:

http://b-i.forbesimg.com/erikkain/files/2013/12/S3222_DROPOUTJEEP.jpg

The NSA apparently claims a 100% success rate in installing the malware on iPhones.

For future reference :

http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-english?cid=se-gg-shop&gclid=CODm9s644LsCFeHm7AoduC0Auw

Now $324 plus free shipping/handling

KevinNYC

01-02-2014, 06:10 PM

From another 4.5 second glance at the article:

http://b-i.forbesimg.com/erikkain/files/2013/12/S3222_DROPOUTJEEP.jpg

For future reference :

http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-english?cid=se-gg-shop&gclid=CODm9s644LsCFeHm7AoduC0Auw

Now $324 plus free shipping/handlingSo that comes on my phone? How do we get from I walk out of the apple store to that slide?

kNicKz

01-02-2014, 10:06 PM

So that comes on my phone? How do we get from I walk out of the apple store to that slide?

:roll:

Someone must have been cut from the debate team in middle school

Reading salty , deflecting posts like this one make me reminisce of the smell of Napalm in the morning

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 01:09 AM

So anyway back to my original question.

What does it mean to say "the NSA has total access to iphones?"

Is it the same as this?

"If you are an NSA target, a special group within the NSA can hack your Apple iPhone or your Huawei Router or you Cisco firewall. This is not mass or bulk collection technique and is illegal to use against Americans."

Do you think there's a reason Applebaum in his speech to a German hacker group pointed out the Apple iPhone over the Huawei router? Do you think there's a reason in his speech he accused Apple of working with the NSA, whereas the article he cowrote for Der Speigel (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/catalog-reveals-nsa-has-back-doors-for-numerous-devices-a-940994.html) clearly indicates there's nothing to support that?

There is no information in the documents seen by SPIEGEL to suggest that the companies whose products are mentioned in the catalog provided any support to the NSA or even had any knowledge of the intelligence solutions.

Applebaum is a long time member of Wikileaks and not an unbiased source and clearly wants people to believe the NSA out of the box has access to your phone. He's very much in the hype business and follows the standard Snowden reporting trick of deliberately obscuring the difference between the capability of the NSA and what the NSA actually does. “Worst than your worst nightmares" and "Wrist-slitting depressing” is the terms Applebaum used in his speech. Cops, FBI, National Guards, and US Marines are have the capability to kill dozens of citizens with their government issued weapons. To say that is the goal and policy of the goverment is a bit of a stretch. It's also a bit of stretch to say that the NSA hacking your iphone is worth than having the government kill you.

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 01:32 AM

The reasons I asked about what happens if I went to the Apple store and activate an iphone 5 were:

A. They would have to hack my phone, this is not automatic. It would be specific targeted phones, not "iphones" in general. Apple sells more than 150 million iphones a year. Do you think the NSA is listening to all of these? And nobody notices? I would think your data rates would skyrocket.

B. The hack mentioned in the article is from 2008. So that would be a second generation iphone running iOS 3, I believe.

Apple has released several iOS upgrades and many, many security fixes since then. (http://threatpost.com/apples-ios-7-update-fixes-80-security-bugs/102356)

C. The hack which was not operational and still in development as late as August 2008 requires the NSA to get access* to your iphone. This is such a spy movie cliche that they don't even have to explain what is happening any more. You see the spy monkey with somebody's phone and you know what's up. Homeland had the Director of the CIA's Mac hacked in this way, they switched out his mouse.

It's not just the NSA that can hack phones. If these idiots at the British tabloids can do it, you don't think that the NSA has the capabilities to hack an iphone?**
http://www.thenation.com/sites/default/files/user/164565/murdoch%20simpsons.jpg

*Yes, the NSA have probably improved their methods since then.

**Yes, the NSA capabilities goes far beyond listening to voicemails to find out who Hugh Grant was sleeping with.

Rose

01-03-2014, 01:38 AM

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]He's very much in the hype business and follows the standard Snowden reporting trick of deliberately obscuring the difference between the capability of the NSA and what the NSA actually does.

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 02:38 AM

I thought you were a big fan of Snowden, what he did, and how he did it? That makes it seem like you aren't. I could be completely wrong and have you confused with someone else though.

No. I'm not a fan of Snowden. He has that toxic combination of arrogance, naivete and paranoia that you find in a lot of hacker/anarchist types.

You get the paranoid in statements like this: "I don’t want to live in a world where everything that I say, everything I do, everyone I talk to, every expression of creativity or love or friendship is recorded."

So you chose China and Russia? He will claim that the US forced him to be there, because, of course, there's no other way to get out of Hong Kong except through Russia.

Perhaps he and Wikileaks will surprise me and during the Sochi Olympics make a giant campaign about the killing of journalists in Russia, or poisoning of Viktor Yushchenko. Or perhaps Assange will keep his TV show on a Kremlin founded network. (http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/13/assange-tv-presented-by-the-kremlin/) And Snowden will keep being managed by his lawyer who has close ties to the FSB or as we know them KGB 2.0. (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g8VxMJ-Rk1g2-rCyqzjdO2zmuHdw)

Rose

01-03-2014, 02:52 AM

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]No. I'm not a fan of Snowden. He has that toxic combination of arrogance, naivete and paranoia that you find in a lot of hacker/anarchist types.

You get the paranoid in statements like this: "I don

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 04:00 AM

I agree with the bolded. But he has a point with what he said. If the government wanted to (and they could very well be doing it right now) they could spy on everything we're doing for the entirety of our lives. I live a relatively boring life, but I still don't want the NSA watching me post on ISH, hooping, etc etc.

I think the reason Snowden/Wikileaks are buddy buddy with the Russians right now is they're the lesser of two evils. Yeah the Russian government is pretty corrupt, yeah they're most likely spying on their civilians as much as our government is. But the Russian government doesn't hold nearly as much power as the United States government. And in the grand scheme of things probably isn't spying on their allies, and most certainly not to the same extent our government is.

And maybe they're taking the whole "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing a bit too far. Plus Snowden most likely has a red notice placed upon him by Interpol, he's not going anywhere.

I agree that Snowden has kicked off a healthy debate.

I completely disagree that the Russian government is the lesser of two evils. And completely disagree that Russia doesn't spies on its allies.

I assume you're an American?

Compare Edward Snowden to Alexander Litvinenko (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-417248/Terrible-effects-poison-Russian-spy-shown-pictures.html).

If 6 years go by and Snowden is not full of polonium-210, we'll have our answer.

falc39

01-03-2014, 04:13 AM

No. I'm not a fan of Snowden. He has that toxic combination of arrogance, naivete and paranoia that you find in a lot of hacker/anarchist types.

You get the paranoid in statements like this: "I don’t want to live in a world where everything that I say, everything I do, everyone I talk to, every expression of creativity or love or friendship is recorded."

So you chose China and Russia? He will claim that the US forced him to be there, because, of course, there's no other way to get out of Hong Kong except through Russia.

Perhaps he and Wikileaks will surprise me and during the Sochi Olympics make a giant campaign about the killing of journalists in Russia, or poisoning of Viktor Yushchenko. Or perhaps Assange will keep his TV show on a Kremlin founded network. (http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/13/assange-tv-presented-by-the-kremlin/) And Snowden will keep being managed by his lawyer who has close ties to the FSB or as we know them KGB 2.0. (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g8VxMJ-Rk1g2-rCyqzjdO2zmuHdw)

KevinNYC, you're freaking hilarious. Some of your arguments may have been fairly argued after a month after the first release of documents, but now you sound just really mad and frustrated because with every passing article and month your positioned is weakened. You keep focusing on Snowden's personality, like that has anything to do with the actual big picture and things we actually care about. He could have been a slimeball and cheated on his girlfriend for all I care or a big narcissist, like the majority of young males living in this country... but no one does care, except maybe you, and other people who are finding it increasingly difficult to criticize his actions. Cmon, for real. How biased do you have to be to focus on that kinda stuff? We get it, you also can't stand wikileaks.. but plz try not to let it affect your arguments.

I have found that people who argue against Snowden have been reduced to the simplest of arguments that you can count on one hand. aka but he broke the law!!! or he could of used other channels!! (the most ridiculous one, refuted many times by pass "whistleblowers" who failed). Or he's a traitor! even though many of these have been refuted or his actions have been justified through worldwide and domestic support, including obama's own freaking task force and a major american newspaper. You keep talking about biased sources, but what are your sources on the matter? Clapper? Alexander? The minute amount of documents that the NSA releases for PR? Obama's mouth? (or c0ck, in your case) Because clearly, those must be the hard truth of the matter and immune to their own biases. Unless you work in a top secret intelligence position, chances are you're no expert and your sources are as shitty as ours. Snowden, that little runt who you keep looking down on, still knows 1000x more than you will ever know about how the NSA operates. But no, you have to come on the forum and try to bait people by asking incredibly vague questions so you can act all smug when you correct them.

And Hong Kong is not China, not even close. I've been in hong kong when british ruled and after they gave it up. It's by name only and it's still not culturally the same. The whole airport fiasco pretty much shows he really had no options and Russia wasn't a planned destination. The US even downed a plane with another president that they thought was communicating with him... you think he had many options? Clearly, this is another one of those weak arguments that you always hear, made by people who will never have to experience running from the world's most powerful country. Like those criticizing him would know what to do. It's easy to quarterback when your life isn't in danger :facepalm

Snowden would be a freaking angel to you if you just cut him a fraction of the amount of slack compared to when you do it for Obama.

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 04:31 AM

KevinNYC, you're freaking hilarious. Some of your arguments may have been fairly argued after a month after the first release of documents, but now you sound just really mad and frustrated because with every passing article and month your positioned is weakened. You keep focusing on Snowden's personality, like that has anything to do with the actual big picture and things we actually care about. He could have been a slimeball and cheated on his girlfriend for all I care or a big narcissist, like the majority of young males living in this country... but no one does care, except maybe you, and other people who are finding it increasingly difficult to criticize his actions. Cmon, for real. How biased do you have to be to focus on that kinda stuff? We get it, you also can't stand wikileaks.. but plz try not to let it affect your arguments.

I have found that people who argue against Snowden have been reduced to the simplest of arguments that you can count on one hand. aka but he broke the law!!! or he could of used other channels!! (the most ridiculous one, refuted many times by pass "whistleblowers" who failed). Or he's a traitor! even though many of these have been refuted or his actions have been justified through worldwide and domestic support, including obama's own freaking task force and a major american newspaper. You keep talking about biased sources, but what are your sources on the matter? Clapper? Alexander? The minute amount of documents that the NSA releases for PR? Obama's mouth? (or c0ck, in your case) Because clearly, those must be the hard truth of the matter and immune to their own biases. Unless you work in a top secret intelligence position, chances are you're no expert and your sources are as shitty as ours. Snowden, that little runt who you keep looking down on, still knows 1000x more than you will ever know about how the NSA operates. But no, you have to come on the forum and try to bait people by asking incredibly vague questions so you can act all smug when you correct them.

And Hong Kong is not China, not even close. I've been in hong kong when british ruled and after they gave it up. It's by name only and it's still not culturally the same. The whole airport fiasco pretty much shows he really had no options and Russia wasn't a planned destination. The US even downed a plane with another president that they thought was communicating with him... you think he had many options? Clearly, this is another one of those weak arguments that you always hear, made by people who will never have to experience running from the world's most powerful country. Like those criticizing him would know what to do. It's easy to quarterback when your life isn't in danger :facepalm

Snowden would be a freaking angel to you if you just cut him a fraction of the amount of slack compared to when you do it for Obama.

Kid shouldn't have turned his life over to the wikileaks crowd.

Also if you read upthread, I was asked what I thought about Snowden.

And you may want to reread the task force's conclusions again. And see how much they validate Snowden.

falc39

01-03-2014, 04:54 AM

Kid shouldn't have turned his life over to the wikileaks crowd.

Also if you read upthread, I was asked what I thought about Snowden.

And you may want to reread the task force's conclusions again. And see how much they validate Snowden.

Some people have principles? Sounds like you care more about his life decisions then he does?

That is for damage control, but the actual task force recommendations are used repeatedly in favor of snowden, like on a daily basis right now, all over the web. Do you always take things so literally?

Scoooter

01-03-2014, 05:23 AM

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 05:29 AM

Some people have principles? Sounds like you care more about his life decisions then he does?

That is for damage control, but the actual task force recommendations are used repeatedly in favor of snowden, like on a daily basis right now, all over the web. Do you always take things so literally?

Wow. What an argument. People on the internet misunderstanding something. What will they think of next.

Anyway here's one member of the task force (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/michael-morell-correcting-the-record-on-the-nsa-recommendations/2013/12/27/54846538-6e45-11e3-aecc-85cb037b7236_story.html)

One of the dangers of a 304 -page report on a complex subject is that everyone gets to choose what he or she thinks is the bottom line. Many of those commenting on the report and recommendations of the recently completed Presidential Review Group on Intelligence and Communications Technologies must have read a different report than the one I helped write.

As one of the five members of the panel, let me try to clear up some of the confusion and misperceptions. One such misperception is the extent of the changes called for in the report. Commentators have used the word “sweeping” to characterize the recommendations, arguing that they would “roll back” the capabilities of the intelligence community.

This is incorrect........
Several news outlets have reported that the review group had called for an end to the program, but we did not do that.

Here's another

“What Mr. [Edward] Snowden did is treason, was high crimes, and there is nothing in what we say that justifies what he did,” said Richard Clarke, a former White House counter-terrorism adviser and current ABC News consultant. “Whether or not this panel would have been created anyway, I don’t know, but I don’t think anything that I’ve learned justifies the treasonous acts of Mr. Snowden.”

A third

NSA not a ‘rogue agency’

“The problems that exist are not, in my opinion because the NSA itself is indifferent to the law, but because our recommendations basically say we think the governing law should be changed.

“But NSA almost without exception was operating within the authorities that were given to it by Congress, executive branch and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. And one might think those authorities should be reconsidered, which we do.

......

I understand why many people think that Snowden did the nation a service. And certainly there were positive consequences that arose from what he did (including many of the recommendations of the panel.)

“. . . But at the same time we have a very strong legal principle in our system, that you don’t get to commit a crime because you have a good justification for doing so. . . .
...

“Basically, my view is I think Snowden is a criminal.”

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 06:00 AM

Snowden being a hypocrite doesn't negate any of his judgments.
I agree with this

You may not admire his character, but no one's claiming he wasn't telling the truth about the NSA;
I disagree with this. Snowden's first appearance on the national stage was a video interview where he claimed he personally had the authority to wiretap Obama. This is clearly a lie. My read of Snowden is not that is not sincere, but he's paranoid and a fantasist. This lie seems to come from the fantasy part. The thing you have to remember about Snowden was he was not operational. He was a systems guy. He basically stole a bunch of PowerPoints from meetings/trainings he never attended. This is why the initial Guardian stories had so many things wrong. He either misread the slides or if he knew better, didn't correct the authors when they misread the slides.

than that no one is really mounting an unqualified defense of the NSA's practices.
I don't think this is true either....though it may be all about unqualified
The Task Force disputed the idea that the NSA is out of control. It found them working within the law and responsive to the FISA court. The basic recommendation was that if you don't like the way they are doing things, we need to change the laws. Sen. Ron Wyden has been a strong critic of the NSA, but a very sensible one too and he felt the Task Force offered "meaningful" reforms. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/18/nsa-review-panel-reform-ron-wyden)

Russia may do some shady shit, but that doesn't mean the US is off the hook.
I agree with that too.
However, if your main defense is you were acting out of principles, then doing shit like offering to spy, sorry investigate spying, for Brazil in exchange for asylum doesn't really help you.

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 06:06 AM

Have you seen the NY Times editorial on Snowden?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/02/opinion/edward-snowden-whistle-blower.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=0

Balla_Status

01-03-2014, 08:06 AM

KevinNYC talking points are hilarious. As long as it happens under Obama, it's ok.

If it happens under Bush, it's wrong. You're so naive. I like how you quote a government source to back up your claim when another government group is ****ing up. Like that's really reliable...

As long as the president is working under the law, you should agree with it according to KevinNYC. You trust what the government says under Obama but not under Bush. You. Are. A. Tool.

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 11:01 AM

As long as the president is working under the law, you should agree with it according to KevinNYC.
No. When the government is working under the law, it's legal. That's the baseline. It's a pretty freaking big distinction when the debate is the government is out of control and violating the Constitution.

I never said anything about agreeing with it. We can have this debate about the NSA without accepting cartoonish arguments on either side. The government is not listening to my damn iPhone.

You trust what the government says under Obama but not under Bush.
Because yeah, the government is one person and every person in the government thinks the same. Except that when the metadata program was operating outside the law, it almost caused a constitutional crisis. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxHjWYA50Ds) (The folks are both sides of that argument were Republicans then.) Since that time the metadata program has been brought with legal guidelines, overseen by the existing national security court and Congressional intelligence committee.

But this is not Bush/Obama thing for me. I don't believe in the Wikileaks radical transparency agenda. I don't believe the intelligence services are monolithically evil. I generally trust in the American system and its capacity to reform itself. I said months ago, the NSA is going to go away, but will be reformed and that's because it's simply not the caricature its opponents make it out to be. Going further with the idea of the American system, it's not private ownership of guns that keeps us free, it's that you will never get a large part of US Military to turn on its people. I don't believe that the millions of Americans who go to work for the government turn against their neighbors and family.

And I've learned not to trust hacker types since I stopped reading Wired in the 1990s. I learned not to trust anarchists from punk shows way before that. Remember Snowden came out of the gate lying; saying he had the authority to wiretap the president's phone or read his email. That's a lie. It's illegal for anyone in the NSA to do so and as a network/systems guy not even near his job description. To Snowden those are mere technical issues. Snowden doesn't agree with the NSA legal mandate of collecting signals intelligence on foreign targets. He doesn't think we should be keeping an eye on China. Feel feel to go back and point out all my posts where I criticized Bush and Cheney for spying on China.

Rose

01-03-2014, 12:44 PM

I agree that Snowden has kicked off a healthy debate.

I completely disagree that the Russian government is the lesser of two evils. And completely disagree that Russia doesn't spies on its allies.

I assume you're an American?

Compare Edward Snowden to Alexander Litvinenko (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-417248/Terrible-effects-poison-Russian-spy-shown-pictures.html).

If 6 years go by and Snowden is not full of polonium-210, we'll have our answer.
So, what exactly is your problem with what Snowden did (and/or how he did it), if you believe he kicked off a healthy debate?

Agree to disagree on the Russians being the lesser of two evils, although they did get busted for trying to put spyware on the G20 computers because they're idiots.:lol Yes, I'm American.

I don't think Litvinenko is a fair comparison. He betrayed his corrupt government in secrecy before going all out and making sure that everyone and their brother knew about what the FSB was doing, how Putin was put in power, etc etc. More importantly, that government has a very deep history of assassinating dissenters/traitors.

Whereas, Snowden just said **** the US in the most public way possible and left, because he knew the court system would be against him until the tides turned. After the Supreme Court ultimately decides whether the NSA/Five Eyes are legal he'll be back. And personally I'd much rather face the American Supreme Court than the FSB.

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 06:05 PM

So, what exactly is your problem with what Snowden did (and/or how he did it), if you believe he kicked off a healthy debate?

Agree to disagree on the Russians being the lesser of two evils, although they did get busted for trying to put spyware on the G20 computers because they're idiots.:lol Yes, I'm American.

I don't think Litvinenko is a fair comparison. He betrayed his corrupt government in secrecy before going all out and making sure that everyone and their brother knew about what the FSB was doing, how Putin was put in power, etc etc. More importantly, that government has a very deep history of assassinating dissenters/traitors.

Whereas, Snowden just said **** the US in the most public way possible and left, because he knew the court system would be against him until the tides turned. After the Supreme Court ultimately decides whether the NSA/Five Eyes are legal he'll be back. And personally I'd much rather face the American Supreme Court than the FSB.

Wait, you admit the Russians have a very deep history of assassinating dissenters and but you still think America is worse? The court system should be against Snowden because there is absolutely no doubt he committed multiple felonies.

Fred Kaplan in (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2014/01/edward_snowden_doesn_t_deserve_clemency_the_nsa_le aker_hasn_t_proved_he.html)responding to that Time editorial I linked to above, make several good points why Snowden doesn't qualify as a whistleblower. Including the facts that a couple of dozen of his coworkers lost their jobs because they trusted him and he ****ed them over.

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 06:26 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/al-qaeda-force-captures-fallujah-amid-rise-in-violence-in-iraq/2014/01/03/8abaeb2a-74aa-11e3-8def-a33011492df2_story.html

A rejuvenated al-Qaeda force asserted control over the western Iraqi town of Fallujah on Friday, raising its flag over government buildings and declaring an Islamic state in one of the most crucial areas that U.S. troops fought to pacify before withdrawing from Iraq two years ago.

The capture of Fallujah came amid an explosion of violence across the western desert province of Anbar in which local tribes, the Iraqi security forces and al-Qaeda militants have been fighting one another for days in a confusingly chaotic three- way war.

KevinNYC

01-03-2014, 08:03 PM

Interesting read on the three types of snooping Snowden (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/01/03/the-three-types-of-nsa-snooping-that-edward-snowden-revealed/)revealed who responds to which type.

Rose

01-03-2014, 09:17 PM

Wait, you admit the Russians have a very deep history of assassinating dissenters and but you still think America is worse? The court system should be against Snowden because there is absolutely no doubt he committed multiple felonies.

Fred Kaplan in (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2014/01/edward_snowden_doesn_t_deserve_clemency_the_nsa_le aker_hasn_t_proved_he.html)responding to that Time editorial I linked to above, make several good points why Snowden doesn't qualify as a whistleblower. Including the facts that a couple of dozen of his coworkers lost their jobs because they trusted him and he ****ed them over.
And the court system should be against a lot of politicians because they've committed felonies, no? In terms of killing their own...Russians are more likely. In terms of who I'd rather be aligned with right now if I'm Snowden it's definitely Russia.

I wouldn't count him as a whistleblower either. I just want to know what exactly is your problem with what Snowden did (and/or how he did it), if you believe he kicked off a healthy debate? Because it seems to me like you have no problem with what he did just how he did it. Which I can see why, but I think how he did it was the best course of action. He just shouldn't have lied while doing so/ given the Guardian inaccurate information.

falc39

01-03-2014, 09:35 PM

Wow. What an argument. People on the internet misunderstanding something. What will they think of next.

Without Snowden, that task force would have never existed. Without the task force, the recommendations (and hopefully the following reforms) would not exist. That's why whenever the task force is brought up in everyday conversation it is nine times out of ten in Snowden's favor and to his credit. Easy enough to understand?

Remember Snowden came out of the gate lying; saying he had the authority to wiretap the president's phone or read his email. That's a lie. It's illegal for anyone in the NSA to do so and as a network/systems guy not even near his job description. To Snowden those are mere technical issues. Snowden doesn't agree with the NSA legal mandate of collecting signals intelligence on foreign targets. He doesn't think we should be keeping an eye on China. Feel feel to go back and point out all my posts where I criticized Bush and Cheney for spying on China.

Wait, you admit the Russians have a very deep history of assassinating dissenters and but you still think America is worse? The court system should be against Snowden because there is absolutely no doubt he committed multiple felonies.

You make it sound like the NSA is very organized and good at keeping tabs on its personnel and what they are doing on their jobs. If only that were the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion now, would we?:lol

Funny how you speak of lying and felonies. You know who else lied and embarrassed the nation? I'll give you a hint: He works at a high position for the NSA and is walking around freely without any punishment. Amazingly, he still has his job. Isn't perjury a felony? Oh, but wait, he is one of Obama's cronies, so I'm sure you're cool with it like you always are :cheers:

KevinNYC

01-05-2014, 07:36 AM

Man Who Understands 8% Of Obamacare Vigorously Defends It From Man Who Understands 5% (http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-who-understands-8-of-obamacare-vigorously-defe,34022/)

KevinNYC

01-05-2014, 02:02 PM

Clapper's lawyer, the General Counsel of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, says he didn't lie. (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/04/opinion/testimony-of-the-national-intelligence-director.html) Blames it on the context of the question. The last bit is the most interesting.

This incident shows the difficulty of discussing classified information in an unclassified setting and the danger of inferring a person’s state of mind from extemporaneous answers given under pressure. Indeed, it would have been irrational for Mr. Clapper to lie at this hearing, since every member of the committee was already aware of the program.

KevinNYC

01-05-2014, 02:06 PM

Looking up what Wyden said at the time, I can across this editorial from the NY Times. (http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/making-alberto-gonzales-look-good/?_r=0)

This was not, by the way, the first time data-collection came up at a Senate hearing. At a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing in July 2006, then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales was asked whether the government had accumulated large amounts of data on Americans’ routine phone calls. “The programs and activities you ask about, to the extent that they exist, would be highly classified,” Mr. Gonzales said.

You have to wonder about giving a position of vast responsibility to someone who can beat Mr. Gonzales in dishonesty.

KeylessEntry

01-05-2014, 02:09 PM

Clapper's general counsel says he didn't lie. (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/04/opinion/testimony-of-the-national-intelligence-director.html) Blames it on the context of the question. The last bit is the most interesting.

Wrong. Maybe you should read your NY times opinion pieces a little more closely before posting, because the article you linked points out that clapper did lie, he just lied unintentionally (allegedly, according to his lawyer, lol).

I like the paragraph directly above the one you quoted

When we pointed out Mr. Clapper’s mistake to him, he was surprised and distressed. I spoke with a staffer for Senator Wyden several days later and told him that although Mr. Clapper recognized that his testimony was inaccurate, it could not be corrected publicly because the program involved was classified.

KeylessEntry

01-05-2014, 02:45 PM

KevinNYC

01-05-2014, 04:42 PM

Wrong. Maybe you should read your NY times opinion pieces a little more closely before posting,

Wrong, how? You may want to reread my post a little more closely before posting. Because I didn't say if I agreed with the op-ed at all.

Originally Posted by KevinNYC
A. Clapper's general counsel says he didn't lie.
B. Blames it on the context of the question.
C. The last bit is the most interesting.

A. Fact. Not my opinion.
B. Fact. Not my opinion.
C. My opinion on a small part of the op-ed, still doesn't say anything about my opinion of the whole argument.

because the article you linked points out that clapper did lie, he just lied unintentionally
You may want to look up the word lie. Because intention is pretty big part of it.

noun: lie; plural noun: lies
1.
an intentionally false statement.

You can make misleading or false statements without lying. False or misleading describe the the statement. Lying describes the mindset behind the statement. I could say there's never been a three-peat champion in the NBA since Jordan's Bulls and not be lying. I would still be wrong and the statement would still be false. That's not enough to say I'm lying. If I forgot about Shaq's Lakers (or never knew about them), I'm not lying. I'm just wrong. If I do know that Shaq's Lakers won three times in row and I still say what I said, then I'm lying.

It's this distinction that is the basic argument the general counsel is making through out the op-ed including the paragraph you cite
(The Jan. 2 oped) repeats the allegation that James R. Clapper Jr., the director of national intelligence, “lied” to Congress about the collection of bulk telephony metadata. As a witness to the relevant events and a participant in them, I know that allegation is not true.
......In that context, his answer was and is accurate.......
we pointed out Mr. Clapper’s mistake to him.........although Mr. Clapper recognized that his testimony was inaccurate,

You can believe this letter to the editor or not, but it's clearly arguing that Clapper didn't deliberately lie.

KevinNYC

01-05-2014, 05:00 PM

Not everything I post here argues a point one way or the other. Sometimes it just moves the story along as with the general counsel post.

The Alberto Gonzales link was intended to advance an argument. It shows Clapper coming off worse than Gonzales, that he could have answered the question without misleading Congress and ****ing himself over. So that's Bush official 1, Obama official 0, but that can't fit into your narrative.

KevinNYC

01-05-2014, 05:42 PM

I think you hate Snowden so fiercely because he is basically responsible for destroying the "good guy democrat" vaneer that you and the people you get your opinions from at the NY times have been hiding behind, exposing you for being the same as the status quo authoritarians that supported Bush when he was trampling over civil liberties.

You hate Snowden because he exposed your beloved party of democrats.

It's not because of any veneer that I dislike Snowden. He deliberately made sensational claims that he couldn't back up. "I can personally tap the President's phone, etc."

I feel that he has gone way past any civil liberty issue and exposed legal spying practices to deliberately damage the US. Why is OK to leak to the Chinese how we are spying on them?

Is it illegitimate that the US is spying on China? A country with the largest military force on Earth, nuclear weapons and an incredibly robust cyberwar division?

Same goes with Russia.

Is it OK, to offer to help spy for Brazil if they gave him asylum? That goes waaaaaaaay beyond his initial concerned citizen pose and give lies to his motives. The same goes for his threats to release more damaging information if he gets extradited.

I'm not against the US having intelligence agencies and using them. That's for starters. A lot of folks in this debate have a problem with that basic point. It would be nice to live in a world, where we don't have wars and folks aren't out to harm Americans, but I don't live it that world.

Read that Fred Kaplan article I linked to. He comes down very much where I am at in regards to Snowden.

KevinNYC

01-07-2014, 09:16 PM

longhornfan1234

01-07-2014, 11:22 PM

My sister signed up for health insurance through healthcare.gov...she's saving over $150/month. She's also getting almost an additional $600 back on her taxes. Her deductible was cut in half....and her copays are less than before.

I guess Barrycare is helping some people.

KevinNYC

01-08-2014, 05:37 PM

Christie is ****ed. They found the fire causing all that smoke about the bridge closing

KevinNYC

01-08-2014, 05:42 PM

New Jersey Governor Chris Christie was thrust deeper into a scandal with the release on Wednesday of emails showing his staff was involved in closing lanes at the George Washington Bridge, a move critics called political retribution.

The emails released on Wednesday ...... show that at least one of Christie's top aides was involved in discussions about the lane closures weeks before the shutdown. The George Washington Bridge is among the world's busiest, carrying some 300,000 vehicles on a typical day.

"Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee," the aide, Bridget Anne Kelly, wrote to a Port Authority executive in August. Link http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA0710H20140108?irpc=932

chosen_one6

01-08-2014, 06:24 PM

Link http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA0710H20140108?irpc=932

Typical government bullshit

longhornfan1234

01-08-2014, 07:00 PM

Christie is ****ed. They found the fire causing all that smoke about the bridge closing
Eh... I'm no Christie fan.... but the internal documents are from mid to low level staff in on the conspiracy... not the Governor

KevinNYC

01-08-2014, 07:16 PM

Eh... I'm no Christie fan.... but the internal documents are from mid to low level staff in on the conspiracy... not the Governor

There's three or four big elements to the story.

One Christie was making fun of this until recently. Then he trying to say there was a legitimate reason for the lane closings....they were doing a traffic study.

All that has been blown up. The emails reveal it was only done for political retaliation. This ends the He said, She Said aspect of the story. The actions are indefensible and Christie himself now says this was unacceptable and an outrage.

The other big part of the story is that it jumped from the Port Authority into Christie's office. The emails/texts make clear that the Port Authority guys were only doing it at the behest of Christie's staff. Christie says he only just learned of this which at best means his staff has been lying to him and he needs to fire more people. His campaign manager was on some these emails right after it happened.

Read the new stories on this today. Everyone is saying how this ratcheted things up.

KevinNYC

01-08-2014, 07:18 PM

The other element, is David Wildstein is expectied to testify tomorrow on all this. That's why we have all this documentation. His boss Baroni is under supoena too.
Now that these emails that confirm it was done for just political reasons, what could they say under oath that puts this story to bed? This story has just started and it's already up to Christie's deputy chief of staff.

You can expect her to be subpoenaed shortly.

Wildstein just filed a lawsuit to (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/wildstein-halt-bridge-testimony) try and prevent him from testifying.

KevinNYC

01-08-2014, 07:37 PM

mid to low level staff

I'm not sure how you define mid level staff, but she is surely not low. She's one of his four top aides.
Office of the Governor
(http://nj.gov/governor/admin/staff/)
Senior Staff
Kevin O’Dowd, Chief of Staff
Louis C. Goetting, Deputy Chief of Staff
Maria Comella, Deputy Chief of Staff for Communications and Planning
Bridget Anne Kelly, Deputy Chief of Staff for Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs
Charles B. McKenna, Chief Counsel
Paul Matey, Deputy Chief Counsel
Matthew McDermott, Appointments Director
Regina Egea, Director of the Authorities Unit
Rosemary Iannacone, Director of Operations
Melissa Orsen, Chief of Staff to the Lt. Governor
Marc Ferzan, Executive Director of the Office of Recovery and Rebuilding

The Bergen Record (http://www.northjersey.com/news/christie_kelly_bridge_lane_closures_emails.html) has a good rundown of All The Governor's Men who knew about this.

At Port Authority
David Wildstein (fired)
Bill Baroni (fired)
David Samson who headed Christie's transition team when he became governor.

In Trenton
Bridget Anne Kelly, Deputy Chief of Staff
Michael Drewniak, Christie’s spokesman
Bill Stepien, Christie’s re-election campaign manager and now state GOP chairman

So we're already up to 6.

KevinNYC

01-08-2014, 11:38 PM

What is going on in Syria? Just a couple of weeks ago the most extremist Islamists appeared to be very, very strong, but since then there's been on host of stories that they are losing ground. Like this one. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/stretched-thin-syrian-extremists-are-pressured/2014/01/07/d770a86e-77df-11e3-a647-a19deaf575b3_story.html)
Just a week ago, al-Qaeda-linked rebels in Syria enjoyed an arc of dominance across the country’s north and east, ruling with brutality.

But a series of stunning reversals in recent days has made clear that the militant group may be more vulnerable than it seemed, in part because its frequent kidnappings and attacks on fellow rebels have won it few allies.

By Tuesday, the group, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, appeared increasingly desperate, with its fighters pushed out of some towns and turning to suicide bombings in a bid to hold on to pockets of Raqqah, the large north-central city that was its stronghold.

I wondering what caused this reversal. Is it that the other rebel groups including the less extremist Islamist groups have been forced to work together to take on ISIS? Is it that it's a lot easier to take over a town, than it is to actually control and hold that ground? I wondering if the outside sponsors of the rebels forced them to get together against ISIS. This article says these recent push against ISIS reveals a level of coordination amongst other rebel groups that is new.

KevinNYC

01-08-2014, 11:57 PM

Al Qaeda-linked group routed in Syrian rebel infighting

Syria rebels demand al-Qaeda group surrender

Syria's rebels are fighting each other — and that's bad news for Assad

These headlines are like the exact opposite of last month

IcanzIIravor

01-09-2014, 12:26 AM

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]Al Qaeda-linked group routed in Syrian rebel infighting

Syria rebels demand al-Qaeda group surrender

Syria's rebels are fighting each other

KevinNYC

01-09-2014, 01:02 AM

Here's how big a bombshell the NJ emails are. Fox News didn't cover the biggest political story for six hours (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/fox-news-christie-scandal) and when they did. They didn't reveal what was in the emails. Sheppard Smith told people they could "Google them" Roger Ailes has always been a big supporter of Chris Christie.

And Jon Stewart was hiliarious on this tonight. He said he was embarrassed by this behavior, as it was far below the political corruption standard usually set by NJ. "We have a severed horse's head on our state flag."
http://flaglane.com/download/new-jersey-flag/new-jersey-flag-graphic.png

KevinNYC

01-09-2014, 01:03 AM

Here's the article. (http://theweek.com/article/index/254707/syrias-rebels-are-fighting-each-other-mdash-and-thats-bad-news-for-assad) I didn't read it at the time, I was just looking for headlines.

His argument is if the rebels unify against the worst extremists then they will be more able to get Western support.

He also thinks the reason ISIS has been losing ground, is they have been focusing on Iraq.

falc39

01-09-2014, 04:01 AM

One Christie was making fun of this until recently. Then he trying to say there was a legitimate reason for the lane closings....they were doing a traffic study.

LOL, civil engineer here and I actually do traffic studies at work. Never closed a lane on purpose just to study traffic and I have never heard of anyone doing such a thing. We have modeling software for that.

KevinNYC

01-09-2014, 09:27 AM

LOL, civil engineer here and I actually do traffic studies at work. Never closed a lane on purpose just to study traffic and I have never heard of anyone doing such a thing. We have modeling software for that.
And when you do have to affect traffic, I'm sure you inform cops and firefighters and other local officials. This is why people couldn't believe this story when they first heard it. The mayor of Fort Lee was on tv yesterday saying he couldn't believe that someone would do this to get at him

KevinNYC

01-09-2014, 09:42 AM

NY Times has good wrapup of the story today and why it's a full blown scandal now. They mention this

When reporters began calling to ask about the lane closings, Mr. Wildstein and Ms. Kelly worked with Michael Drewniak, the governor’s chief spokesman, to fashion a statement saying that the port was “reviewing traffic safety patterns” at the bridge and had been “in contact with Fort Lee police throughout this transition.”

In fact, bridge officials testified in December that Mr. Baroni and Mr. Wildstein instructed them not to tell the Fort Lee police, or anyone else, about the lane closings before they happened. They also testified that they did not believe there had been any traffic study; none were produced after the lane closings, and any study of traffic patterns could have been done using computer models of data routinely collected at the bridge.

Christie press conference at 11 today.

rufuspaul

01-09-2014, 09:56 AM

I read somewhere that when people called to complain that their kids weren't able to get to school that Kelly bitch said that's what they deserve because their parents voted Democratic. Nice. What happened to the good ole days when the mayor of Ft. Lee would've just had his knee caps broken?

longhornfan1234

01-09-2014, 11:31 AM

Damn....I didn't know Christie and his staff are this ****ed up. :facepalm

Jailblazers7

01-09-2014, 11:34 AM

This Christie thing blows my mind because he won the election in a ****ing landslide. Why seek retribution after a battle that you won handily?

longhornfan1234

01-09-2014, 11:36 AM

North Carolina cut jobless benefits and unemployment dropped...

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/capitolreport/2014/01/08/what-happens-when-jobless-benefits-are-cut-north-carolina-may-offer-clues/

IcanzIIravor

01-09-2014, 12:02 PM

KevinNYC

01-09-2014, 01:15 PM

At Port Authority
David Wildstein (fired)
Bill Baroni (fired)
David Samson who headed Christie's transition team when he became governor.

In Trenton
Bridget Anne Kelly, Deputy Chief of Staff Fired today
Michael Drewniak, Christie’s spokesman
Bill Stepien, Christie’s re-election campaign manager and now state GOP chairman Kinda Fired today

Need to update the List. Christie just fired two more. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-jersey-gov-chris-christie-to-address-bridge-scandal-in-news-conference-at-11-am/2014/01/09/60b6288e-7933-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_story.html)

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) on Thursday apologized for a scandal in which some of his top aides apparently shut down access lanes to a bridge as an act of political retribution, saying he was “embarrassed and humiliated by the conduct of some of the people on my staff.”

Christie said he had fired deputy chief of staff Bridget Anne Kelly, one of the aides apparently responsible for the closure, and has told Bill Stepien, his 2013 campaign manager, not to apply to become state party chairman or to work with the Republican Governors Association, which Christie is taking over.

“I come out here today to apologize to the people of New Jersey,” Christie said at a packed news conference. “I apologize to the people of Fort Lee, and I apologize to the state legislature.”

Will this put out the fire?

longhornfan1234

01-09-2014, 01:31 PM

Christie's apology sounds pretty sincere. I want to believe him.

Jailblazers7

01-09-2014, 01:32 PM

Need to update the List. Christie just fired two more. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-jersey-gov-chris-christie-to-address-bridge-scandal-in-news-conference-at-11-am/2014/01/09/60b6288e-7933-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_story.html)

Will this put out the fire?

Nope. They are going for his throat and people will keep digging until that find if there is any evidence that helped cover it up at some point.

rufuspaul

01-09-2014, 02:45 PM

Christie's apology sounds pretty sincere. I want to believe him.

Crocodile tears. :cry:

KevinNYC

01-09-2014, 02:53 PM

Christie's apology sounds pretty sincere. I want to believe him.
The high school classmate Christie appointed to the port authority just plead the fifth

gigantes

01-09-2014, 03:16 PM

could this be a big difference between capitol hill politics and regional politics?

i mean, in washington, it sounds like most folks (from the interns and lobbyists on up) are members of a club / fraternity. they play individualistic and partisan roles in public, but tend to be more relaxed and cooperative buddies behind the scenes.

then i see regional stuff like this, and it sounds like THOSE folks are locked in to real combat... struggling to divide a pie not large enough to feed everyone. plus, being at war can be rather addicting and empowering.

*shrug*

Lebowsky

01-09-2014, 04:51 PM

The European Parliament has invited E. Snowden to testify. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/european-parliament-invites-snowden-to-testify/2014/01/09/9c446564-7924-11e3-a647-a19deaf575b3_story.html)

KevinNYC

01-09-2014, 06:47 PM

This Christie thing blows my mind because he won the election in a ****ing landslide. Why seek retribution after a battle that you won handily?
Because a big, big win in Democratic State set ups a very good narrative for a presidential run.

So David Wildstein has taken the 5th. Baroni was also subpoenaed. The one Christie fired today is surely going to get subpoenaed.

The US Attorney in NJ has opened a probe.

MY guess is they have to be wondering who is going to the prosecutor first? Who is going to try and get immunity first?

Couple of telling things about the press conference. Today Christie claimed he couldn't sleep about this for the last two nights. But he claimed he only found out about it yesterday morning. That would only cause one sleepless night.

Also the four folks implicated so far were fairly close to Christie. If an idiot on the internet like me could tell this was trouble for Christie a month ago, no one close to Christie could see he need to look into this before yesterday?

Also these close people gave all these documents to the NJ legislature.....and there well over a thousand we haven't seen yet...but they didn't tell Christie? There might be legal reasons for that, but Christie said he was "blindsided" by this. Really? Last month Christie claimed he was upset when he found out that three lanes of the bridge were dedicated to Fort Lee. This is ridiculous argument, they are the local access lanes used by anyone in that area. More importantly for this story. This sounds like Christie trying to diminish the controversy by using cover story. All through November and December he was referring to laughable "the traffic study" excuse Nobody on his staff told him there was never a traffic study?

Christie fired Kelly, but didn't fire his spokesman Drewniak who reviewed the traffic study cover story that Wildstein and Kelly put out. Did they lie to him? If they didn't he's in on it. If they didn't lie to him what did he think when it came last month there was no traffic study. Did he go to Christie and tell him that Kelly and Wildstein were going to get him trouble?

Fort Lee is not the only mayor they tried to retaliate against. The mayor of Jersey city is also mentioned in the emails. Which means that Wildstein at the Port Authority was very familiar with who the Governor's office considered an enemy, which means this wasn't some hush-hush operation.

KevinNYC

01-09-2014, 10:26 PM

This Christie thing blows my mind because he won the election in a ****ing landslide. Why seek retribution after a battle that you won handily?

Rachel Maddow just did a piece where she said the target of the retribution was the mayor of Fort Lee, but the NJ State Senator whose district contains Fort Lee and who was the head of the NJ Senate. The order to shut down Fort Lee came at 7:30 AM on the same day that this story was published.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/08/supreme_stunner_christie_declines_to_nominate_just ice_hoens_for_lifetime_tenure.html
Supreme stunner: Christie declines to nominate Justice Hoens for lifetime tenure

[QUOTE] In a stunning move that roiled New Jersey

KevinNYC

01-10-2014, 12:23 AM

When Wildstein took the fifth, his lawyer told the legislators that if the Attorney Generals of NY, NJ and the US Attorney gave his immunity, he would be happy to testify. So Wildstein is looking for immunity. Baroni and Kelly won't be far behind.

Kelly's boss, Christie's chief of staff is up to become the Attorney General of NJ. His confirmation hearing (http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/01/will_new_attorney_general_be_derailed_by_george_wa shington_bridge_scandal.html) is next week. He will be under oath for that hearing.

Draz

01-10-2014, 02:06 AM

Christie is under fire. Haven't done my research but did he really shut down the lanes?

rufuspaul

01-10-2014, 09:28 AM

Rachel Maddow just did a piece where she said the target of the retribution was the mayor of Fort Lee, but the NJ State Senator whose district contains Fort Lee and who was the head of the NJ Senate. The order to shut down Fort Lee came at 7:30 AM on the same day that this story was published.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/08/supreme_stunner_christie_declines_to_nominate_just ice_hoens_for_lifetime_tenure.html
Supreme stunner: Christie declines to nominate Justice Hoens for lifetime tenure

Christie was battling Senate Democrats over judicial nominations

Here's a theory on the issue from one of my old fraternity brothers:

I know a lot of you ain't too fond of Rachel Maddow but you may want to follow her on the Christie story. She was there at the beginning of this story and was ridiculed by other credible pundits on the left, most notably Bob Sommerby at The Daily Howler (he is cranky, frequently hard to understand, and frequently sober about the core of the matter).

Maddow challenged the prevailing narrative tonight....she's not buying the "it's revenge for failure to endorse from the Ft Lee mayor." Given the timing of the emails to sabotage bridge traffic ties closely to a flair up between Christie and NJ State Dems over judicial positions. In other words, he was possibly going after the lead Democrat who lives in Ft Lee...THAT was the revenge motive, so the story goes.

Who knows. But the new narrative is neat and tidy and markets just as well to GOP moderates flirting with the governor as a potential Oval Office date as it does us liberals who see him as an odious thug buffoon. The story is almost too perfect but I think something quite close to it will be the summa.

But just as important as the content and aesthetic svelteness of the myth is that Maddow presented it as a found story. Bullshit. If this were truly straight reportage then the epistemic lifting would be part of the story...."we went here to look and found x and then we asked Mr. Doe about x and he said look at the abc email......" We didn't get that. We got Joseph Smith and the golden plates....the story just appeared whole.....which of course that isn't how stories are made unless you believe in magic. So if the product wasn't reportage and it wasn't dropped from the heavens then from whence did it come? A political enemy. Maddow is being fed and told exactly where to look and what to look for.

And I'm going all in that the source is someone in the GOP. Take Christie out early and use MSNBC as the instrument. FOX can't take the risk nor is it as credible of an attacker when it comes to a target like Christie. Blowback goes to MSNBC so two birds one scandal may be part of the calculus as well.

No evidence for any of this mind you....but it feels like Christie is Nixon, Wildstein is Haldeman, Rachel Maddow's source is Deep Throat aka FBI agent Mark Felt, Maddow as Washington Post.....and the Democratic representative being treated to Wildstein's Fifth Amendment stonewall today, wondered out loud about "who knew what and when did he know it" as the ghost Howard Baker complete with pipe, southern gentlemanly manner, and integrity floated by.

KevinNYC

01-10-2014, 10:26 AM

Here's a theory on the issue from one of my old fraternity brothers:That's kind of a crazy ass theory. I take it this is one your fraterntiy brothers who likes to get high? He's right Rachel Maddow was the first on this story nationally, but the other parts were confusing.
Who knows. But the new narrative is neat and tidy and markets just as well to GOP moderates flirting with the governor as a potential Oval Office date as it does us liberals who see him as an odious thug buffoon.
Is he saying GOP moderates would like him after hearing the new theory? Because in both theories the world's busiest bridge got shut down as part of a political vendetta. It's just that the target has changed.

But just as important as the content and aesthetic svelteness of the myth is that Maddow presented it as a found story. Bullshit. If this were truly straight reportage then the epistemic lifting would be part of the story...."we went here to look and found x and then we asked Mr. Doe about x and he said look at the abc email......" We didn't get that. We got Joseph Smith and the golden plates....the story just appeared whole....
Whoa! Holy Aesthetic sveteness, Batman!
I don't even know what he means by epistemic lifting here. Do you?

There could have been someone who gave the story to Maddow gift-wrapped, but I don't get what the golden plates bits at all. Her report basically looked at the date of the first email and asked why this date? What happened to Christie so that at 7:30 in the morning his deputy chief of staff sets this plan in motion? A good Google search through NJ newpapers is all you need. Do you need a source to ask that question?

If someone did gift-wrap to Maddow, why would it be someone in the GOP? Yes, Christie has his enemies and rivals. But would they be insiders with the NJ GOP, and not GOP bigwigs from other states? You would need inside NJ knowledge to understand exactly what set this off and if you are GOP insider in NJ, your best chance at getting to the big show politically is hitching your star to Christie.

A more likely candidate to tip off Maddow might be some of the NJ Democrats who have appeared on her show. Remember the documents that came out Tuesday are just a small, small, part of what they have.

Loretta Weinberg who is supposedly the new target of the vendetta has appeared on Maddow's show. (http://www.frequency.com/video/nj-lawmakers-seek-answers-in-traffic/138095076#53849714) She probably would understand the significance of that August date. My candidate would John Wisniewski who is the NJ legislator who is leading the investigation and you surely would know what is in ALL the documents that have been turned over, not just the little bit that leaked.

KevinNYC

01-10-2014, 10:30 AM

If Wisniewski is playing this for maximum political damage, he might do the following

Start at the Port Authority.
Subpoena PA documents and emails
See if it leads to the state house in Trenton.
Leak enough documents to get the governor on the record, force him to fire people and face the press

Check.
Check.
Check.
and Check.

Then what is your next move? Now that Christie has committed himself and said that his two top aides were not involved, when they you release more information.

Oh look over here. (http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/10/politics/christie-bridge/)
New Jersey lawmakers will release 907 pages of documents Friday that could shed new light on a scandal that's forced an "embarrassed and humiliated" Gov. Chris Christie to apologize over a bit of apparent political retribution he says went no higher than his deputies.

KevinNYC

01-10-2014, 10:35 AM

Also I'm not buying his read on All the Governor's Men

No evidence for any of this mind you....but it feels like Christie is Nixon, Wildstein is Haldeman, Rachel Maddow's source is Deep Throat aka FBI agent Mark Felt, Maddow as Washington Post.....and the Democratic representative being treated to Wildstein's Fifth Amendment stonewall today, wondered out loud about "who knew what and when did he know it" as the ghost Howard Baker complete with pipe, southern gentlemanly manner, and integrity floated by.

Wildstein is not Halderman, Halderman was indispensible and the guy Nixon tried to protect to the end. He didn't get caught first, he got caught last, just before Nixon left. Wildstein is Howard Hunt, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Howard_Hunt) one of the guys who got caught at the scene of the crime.

Haldeman was Nixon's chief of staff. Kevin O'Dowd is Christie's chief of staff. My guess is there's a target on O'Dowd's back.

rufuspaul

01-10-2014, 11:28 AM

longhornfan1234

01-10-2014, 10:43 PM

Hey, I'm not saying I believe all this. I just thought it was an interesting read. You gotta admit Christie didn't convince anyone yesterday. The whole presser was loaded with, "I'm lying my ass off" tells....deflections, pivots, non-denial denials, incoherence of details, OVER explanation, the buttressing of the incorrect revenge on Ft Lee mayor narrative, all packaged in barely-contained indignant narcissism. ....it was a performance for the ages.

Christie is full of shit. This is a small time... two bit scheme perpetrated by the staff of a popular political moderate. It shows precisely why we need smaller... accountable... transparent government. The abuse of power... with operatives disregarding the effect that it would have on ordinary people... sickens me. Death in an ambulance... missed school plays... or lost productivity at home or work for thousands of people somehow gets back at the mayor of that town? It doesn't even make sense.

Jailblazers7

01-10-2014, 11:33 PM

Guy Dudebro

01-10-2014, 11:46 PM

Lets be real here, there is no real difference, in 2014, between the Jackass and the Elephant.

Obama is GWB only he likes black people slightly more. DASSIT! These two posses are like the Crips and Bloods, no matter who is in charge, there will still be crack and hoes.

Yeah Buddy!

KevinNYC

01-11-2014, 01:29 AM

Dude! What's up with you, guy? I thought we were bros.

KevinNYC

01-11-2014, 04:32 AM

Christie is full of shit. This is a small time... two bit scheme perpetrated by the staff of a popular political moderate. It shows precisely why we need smaller... accountable... transparent government. The abuse of power... with operatives disregarding the effect that it would have on ordinary people... sickens me. Death in an ambulance... missed school plays... or lost productivity at home or work for thousands of people somehow gets back at the mayor of that town? It doesn't even make sense.

The family of the woman who died don't think any delay caused her death. They said it was just her time.

So all these documents are coming out because the legislature subpoenaed them. There is a new legislature coming in and that means they need to vote on subpoena power again in a couple of days. Probably why all the docs came out this week. The new head guy is a Democrat who is close to Christie. Does he dare monkey with the investigation. Because now they have reason to supbpoena several people in the governor's office including several that have not been fired.

Dunno know where this goes next. Now that Christie did his press conference and there's no emails from him directly. Does he just try to ride this out? His spokesman's emails show he knew about this controversy since September and also filled with obscenity. Can he survive? The woman who slated to be Christie's next chief of staff, was the governor's liaison with the Port Authority and she was emailed once the NY guy flipped out in Sept. She doesn't mention this to Christie?
I think they are going to try and find tooth and nail to prevent Kelly's emails from being subpoenaed and try to remove the subpoena power from the guy currently running the committee. I have no idea how they could do that with so many eyes on this....

Also both the NY Daily News and the NY Post are unloaded both barrels on Christie. I guess they commute to work.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vG2ubv9GcmU/Us_xQJERyUI/AAAAAAAAFeg/_MsAjKkMe18/w426-h533/cfbd936d-b726-479f-b0d8-845bc501e684
http://nyopoliticker.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/new-york-post-ignorance-is-chris.jpg

KevinNYC

01-12-2014, 03:00 PM

We just signed a nuclear deal with Iran (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304549504579316643349109898?mg=ren o64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB1000 1424052702304549504579316643349109898.html)
Iran and six major powers agreed on how to execute an interim accord over the country's nuclear program that is intended to lead to a more comprehensive deal.

European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, who chairs the six power group that negotiates with Iran, said on Sunday that the nations ratified the agreement after senior EU, U.S. and Iranian officials met for two days late last week. The interim nuclear deal will take effect from Jan. 20.

The agreement provides concrete steps for how to implement the Nov. 24 accord, which requires Iran to curtail its nuclear activities in exchange for the easing of some of the West's longtime sanctions against the country.

Iran and the six powers have set themselves a 12-month deadline to reach a broader, more comprehensive agreement, but leaders of both sides said they hoped to reach that deal sooner, within six months of the interim accord. The interim deal can be renewed after six months by mutual consent.

November's interim accord marked the first formal warming of relations with Iran after decades of animosity. A final, more comprehensive deal would represent a rapprochement between Tehran and the West which could have far-reaching consequences in the Middle East.

KevinNYC

01-12-2014, 03:15 PM

link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/robert-gates-former-defense-secretary-offers-harsh-critique-of-obamas-leadership-in-duty/2014/01/07/6a6915b2-77cb-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_story.html)
In a new memoir, former defense secretary Robert Gates unleashes harsh judgments about President Obama’s leadership and his commitment to the Afghanistan war, writing that by early 2010 he had concluded the president “doesn’t believe in his own strategy, and doesn’t consider the war to be his. For him, it’s all about getting out.”

Leveling one of the more serious charges that a defense secretary could make against a commander in chief sending forces into combat, Gates asserts that Obama had more than doubts about the course he had charted in Afghanistan. The president was “skeptical if not outright convinced it would fail,” Gates writes in “Duty: Memoirs of a Secretary at War.”

Lot's of people are pushing back on Bob Woodward's view of this book. Slate's political writer is saying Woodward missed the subtlety and nuances of the book. Gates served under both Bush and Obama and has good and bad things to say about both.

the early response to the book has none of the subtlety of Gates’ actual prose. There are enough damning quotes in Duty to serve any purpose, and those quotes have been weaponized and they’re detonating all over Twitter and in slapdash reviews, locking in narratives for both the right and the left.
.....
So, if you don’t like President Obama, you quote Gates’ claims that he engaged in “wishful thinking” and lacked nerve when things went bad and that his White House micromanaged on a level with the Nixon White House. Or you can choose to note that he says the Obama White House was “determined to take credit for every good thing that happened while giving none to the career folks in the trenches who had actually done the work.” (Ouch.)

If you do like Obama, you can cite any of the several times Gates calls him “bold,” the blanket statement about his Afghanistan policies (that his every decision was right and that he frequently made decisions “opposed by his political advisers or that would be unpopular with his fellow Democrats”), and Gates’ characterization of Obama’s call to go after Bin Laden as “one of the most courageous decisions I had ever witnessed in the White House.”

The liberal activist group MediaMatters said that Woodward "poisoned the debate" on the book.
Much of the media is adopting Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward's description of former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates' forthcoming memoir as a damning critique of President Obama -- a narrative undermined by Woodward's own description of the book's contents.They point the more neutral reads on the same anecdotes Woodwards cites. Woodward himself writes this
toward the end of “Duty,” he says of Obama’s chief Afghanistan policies, “I believe Obama was right in each of these decisions.”, but he claims that Gates in contradicting himself. The other authors point out that perhaps just misread Gates's thoughts on Obama earlier.

The Book comes out Tuesday and readers can find out for themselves.

Ne 1

01-12-2014, 11:15 PM

The whole bridge-gate "scandal" is being over blown to divert attention away from what the mainstream media isn't talking about. TPA/TPP.

The TPP (some call it NAFTA on steroids), is being negotiated in secret with only corporate lobbyists allowed in to voice opinions, will enact copyright regulations that will wipe out the internet as we know it, to the benefit of large corporations and the disadvantage of users like you, or Jeff, or anyone with a small business or independent website. Obama is trying to get Trade Promotion Authority so the TPP can be fast tracked and Congress would have no say on it.

The copyright laws that it will enact place responsibility for copyright infringements on the ISP. This means that an ISP, with its limited ability to monitor every website it processes, will be forced to limit its website allowance to just a few sites. No longer will you be able to have your own.
This will lead to the ISP charging a lot for each site, allowing only the wealthiest corporations to own one.

This is exactly what disinformation, corporate network "news" would dearly love, as it limits the public's access to real news, allowing them to disseminate propaganda without any outside conflicts.

There are other problems with the TPP as well, such as elimination of national sovereignty, placing corporations in control of law instead of the people.

This video explains a lot of that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHYlZb65gVY

NOW is the time to call, email, or write your so-called "representatives" and demand this thing be canned.

It is no coincidence that the current administration is currently in court, trying to make the case that foreign treaties trump the Constitution.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/01/stopping-fast-track-one-way-we-can-block-tpp

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/09/trans-pacific-partnership-obama-boehner_n_4570837.html

Ne 1

01-12-2014, 11:30 PM

This will be the internet after TPP:
http://oi41.tinypic.com/1z1wyt4.jpg

Post this on your facebook, your google plus, your twitter, other message boards, everywhere:
http://oi40.tinypic.com/2nkopon.jpg

"The TPP basically incorporates a number of intellectual property provisions of ACTA and some actually go beyond ACTA. So if you hated ACTA or SOPA/PIPA, then you will hate TPP."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WRgFKIFA5M

knickballer

01-12-2014, 11:39 PM

^^
Inb4 KevinNYC takes some lame pundit from a random NYtimes article defending it

Ne 1

01-12-2014, 11:59 PM

^^
Inb4 KevinNYC takes some lame pundit from a random NYtimes article defending it

Only a shill would defend this. Even House Democrats and Nancy Pelosi criticized it. "We want transparency. We want to see what's going on there," "We have a problem with that."- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)

"Congressional Democrats have often been frustrated by his [Obama] lack of attention to their concerns, but they've been especially disturbed lately that in his grand pivot to Asia and push for a 12-nation trade pact dubbed the Trans-Pacific Partnership, they and the rest of Congress largely have been cut out of negotiations.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/11/fast-track-trade-democrats_n_4580720.html

Hopefully they just block the fast track. If this has to go through the normal legislative process, it will be shot down as it so richly deserves as people learn what's in it. Like NAFTA's results? Outsourcing, loss of national sovereignty to multinational corporations? You'll just love TPP if so.

longhornfan1234

01-13-2014, 12:52 AM

^^
Inb4 KevinNYC takes some lame pundit from a random NYtimes article defending it
Impossible.

Majority of liberals and Dems are against this deal.

Ne 1

01-13-2014, 02:09 AM

Impossible.

Majority of liberals and Dems are against this deal.

Hard line leftists are against it. Hard line conservatives are against it. And you even have centrists who are saying the content is highly questionable.

I honestly don't know who could possibly defend this outside of the corporate insiders and the bought and paid for Washington plutocrats like Obama and John Boehner.

Relatively little of this is really trade. Most of it is imposition of laws and regulations that could never pass Congress as stand-alone legislation. But even so, the Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate international trade, not the executive branches administration. Having the USTR negotiate a multi-international treaty in secret and then the President gets to send it to Congress for an up or down, with no chance to amend- that should rub anyone the wrong way regardless of party affiliation.

KevinNYC

01-13-2014, 03:07 AM

The whole bridge-gate "scandal" is being over blown to divert attention away from what the mainstream media isn't talking about. TPA/TPP.
If the mainstream media wasn't talking about TPA/TPP, why do you need to divert attention from it?

KevinNYC

01-13-2014, 10:30 AM

This MSNBC's host theory on Bridgegate (http://www.msnbc.com/up/watch/important-new-developments-in-bridgegate-114674243672) more compelling than the other MSNBC's host's theory on Bridgegate. Steve Kornacki had a guest on who used to work with him covering NJ politics and he also agrees with Rachel Maddow the retribution wasn't over the Mayor of Fort Lee's endorsement, but says it's about turning this
http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/tjtlto7keueqlog8mo8r.jpg

into this

http://www.tuckerdevelopment.com/images/FINAL_AerialTowardsRiver_Cropped_Moda%20copy.jpg

Address
175 Main Street, Fort Lee, New Jersey 07024

Description
Located in Fort Lee, New Jersey, Hudson Lights will be a mixed-use development in excess of one million square feet including retail, residential, office and/or hotel on the western 8-acre portion of a 15-acre redevelopment area.

The site offers accessibility to five major highways and is located at the base of the two-level, 14-lane George Washington Bridge, which connects New Jersey to Manhattan

Full discussion here
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/is-a-billion-dollar-development-project-at-the-heart-of-bridgegate

The author argues there's a behind the scenes fight for control of a billion dollar project going on. A project that is only worth a billion dollars since it's so close to the three local accesslanes to the bridge. Shut two of them down and you no longer have a billion dollar project.

KevinNYC

01-13-2014, 10:58 AM

The initial "time for some traffic problems" came out when the Hudson Lights project was seeking a round of financing. This explains why the Mayor of Fort Lee didn't go to the press during the lane closures, but complained only the Port Authority. He didn't want publicity, it would scare away investors.

The lanes were shut down from Sept 9-13th. The 14th and 15th weren't business days. $218 million in financing was secured and announced Monday Sept 16th, the first business day after the bridge was reopened.

It puts this statement from Gov. Christie in a new light.
http://videos.nj.com/nj/2013/12/gov_chris_christie_sauced_over.html

Ne 1

01-13-2014, 12:14 PM

If the mainstream media wasn't talking about TPA/TPP, why do you need to divert attention from it?

The excessive coverage is distracting us from a much larger issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE8MA5sXlPw

Ne 1

01-13-2014, 12:40 PM

Anyway, how can we get sites like Google, Wikipedia, Facebook, Twitter etc. to post banners like they did for SOPA/PIPA? Alternately, a front page mention on a popular news website would be effective? Which sites do you think would be receptive to posting such a story if we sent them a tip? I thought maybe huffington post since they ran the article about fast track. But their front page is Chris Christie distraction bullshit like all the other sites.

longhornfan1234

01-13-2014, 10:01 PM

http://blog.heritage.org/2014/01/13/obamas-unconstitutional-recess-appointments-come-supreme-court/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

Obama's Unconstitutional "Recess" Appointments Come Before the Supreme Court.

rufuspaul

01-14-2014, 11:19 AM

Seems Christie is in even more hot water over the way emergency fed money for Hurricane Sandy was spent.

kentatm

01-14-2014, 11:24 AM

Seems Christie is in even more hot water over the way emergency fed money for Hurricane Sandy was spent.

yea I saw about this one.

dunno how in the world he is going to be able to justify picking a $4.7 million commercial bid that used his family over the $2.5 million bid that didn't

Ne 1

01-17-2014, 01:10 AM

Reminder that if fast tracking for TPP passes: 1. Corporations will be be given power to supersede foreign governments. Those governments can be sued for taking any action that could potentially hurt their profits.

2. The authorities can legally censor the internet as they please. They are already doing that to some extent already but when the bill passes this will increase tenfold.

3. The internet will be regulated to "channels", in a manner akin to cable TV, with only the biggest websites and internet providers remaining independent. All smaller websites and providers will be subsequently absorbed by the bigger ones.

http://www.finance.senate.gov/newsroom/chairman/release/?id=7cd1c188-87f1-4a0b-8856-3fc139121ca9

Here's one excerpt of this things horrible and vague wording bound to be abused

>>iv) ensuring that standards of protection and enforcement keep pace with technological developments, and in particular
ensuring that rightholders have the legal and technological means to control the use of their works through the Internet and other global communication media, and to prevent the unauthorized use of their works;(v) providing strong enforcement of intellectual property rights, including through accessible, expeditious, and effective civil, administrative, and CRIMINAL enforcement mechanisms

That's right it's no longer a CIVIL matter but a CRIMINAL matter, download some pop song or popular song? It's no longer court but jail now.

>>; and(vi) preventing or eliminating government involvement in the violation of intellectual property rights, including cyber theft and piracy;

And if a company is falsely accusing you of something and your government is protecting you? Well they can sue the shit out of the government as well for interfering.

These are just some SMALL parts of this ****ed up bill that are empowering corporations and allowing them to further regulate the Internet and the world Governments. TPA/TPP is a serious threat to our national sovereignty. Call or email you congressional representatives and tell them to oppose the TPA bill which would give Obama the ability to fast track the TPP treaty without transparency and without congress bring able to amend it. If they kill the fast tracking, there's no way this will pass through the regular legislative processes. www.contactingthecongress.org/

KevinNYC

01-17-2014, 03:12 AM

So we finally get Iran to agree to a nuclear deal and now a bunch idiot Senators including a lot of Dems want to torpedo it

Sens. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.), Mark Kirk (R-Ill.), Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), Ben Cardin (D-Md.), John McCain (R-Ariz.), Bob Casey (D-Pa.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Chris Coons (D-Del.), John Cornyn (R-Texas), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.), Mark Begich (D-Alaska), Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), Mark Pryor (D-Ala.), Susan Collins (R-Maine), Mary Landrieu (D-La.), Jerry Moran (R-Kan.), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.), Pat Roberts (R-Kan.), Mark Warner (D-Va.), Mike Johanns (R-Neb.), Kay Hagan (D-N.C.), Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.), and Roy Blunt (R-Mis.).

Schumer :facepalm

Obama is supposed to announce his NSA reforms tomorrow. I read one column that said expect the NSA, the FISA court, Congress, the tech companies and the EFF all to be disappointed.

The UN found evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/world/middleeast/syria.html) in northern Syria by the jihadi rebel group ISIS.
A recent series of mass executions attributed to jihadist rebels in Syria may constitute war crimes and crimes against humanity, Navi Pillay, the United Nations human rights chief, said on Thursday.

Mass executions of civilians and of fighters who were no longer participating in hostilities were reported in the northern cities of Aleppo, Idlib and Raqqa. They were carried out by armed opposition groups in Syria, in particular by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, Ms. Pillay said in a statement, citing what she described as reliable testimony by witnesses.

The executions appear to have coincided with a succession of fierce battles between opposition groups in northern Syria since the start of the year as moderate and Islamist factions try to drive out hard-line fighters linked to Al Qaeda.

Syrian Peace talks are supposed to begin next week in Geneva. We're still trying to coax the opposition to come. (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/world/middleeast/kerry-offers-assurances-as-syria-talks-draw-near.html)
[QUOTE]As the Syrian opposition neared a decision on whether to attend an international peace conference next week, Secretary of State John Kerry offered a public assurance on Thursday that the Obama administration had not pulled back from its goal of establishing a transitional government that would not include President Bashar al-Assad.

In a quickly arranged appearance before reporters, Mr. Kerry criticized

KevinNYC

01-21-2014, 01:23 PM

Chris Christie officially kicks off his 2016 campaign in January with the Statue of Liberty behind him. He is going to do his inauguration at Ellis Island.

Christie's rough month continues. His Innaguration celebration on Ellis Island, just got cancelled due to snow. (http://www.northjersey.com/news/recordpolitics/NJ_Gov_Christie_cancels_party_because_of_weather.h tml)

He also had to cancel a private dinner (http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2014/01/20/less-interest-in-christies-second-inauguration-ceremony/) for just 50 close supporters last night because there wasn't enough interest.

This was supposed to be his big month. He has his big photo op at the Statue of Liberty and positions himself at the GOP front runner just as the Super Bowl comes to his state. He would have been in great position. All that has changed. Now the investigations have led into the state house, the US attorney is involved and potential scandal is spreading to other issues.

Last week, Christie said this. "I accepted the task of leading this state for eight years, not four years." I wonder if he realizes a presidential run is not going to happen for him.

Rasheed1

01-21-2014, 04:20 PM

Christie is finally getting pegged as a bully..

He reminds me of Fred Flintstone or the guy from the Honeymooners..

A loud mouth Fatso

KevinNYC

01-23-2014, 10:46 AM

Government Privacy Board (http://www.pclob.gov/) comes out against the NSA phone data collection. (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-01-23/nsa-phone-data-program-called-illegal-by-privacy-oversight-board#p1) Full Report to be released later today.

The U.S. justification for the phone records collection under Section 215 of the Patriot Act “implicates constitutional concerns under the First and Fourth Amendments, raises serious threats to privacy and civil liberties as a policy matter, and has shown only limited value,” the report said. “As a result, the board recommends that the government end the program.”

Board was unanimous on its recommendations and 3 out of 5 say program is illegal. (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/23/us/politics/watchdog-report-says-nsa-program-is-illegal-and-should-end.html?hp&_r=4)
But in its report, the board lays out what may be the most detailed critique of the government’s once-secret legal theory behind the program: that a law known as Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows the F.B.I. to obtain business records deemed “relevant” to an investigation, can be legitimately interpreted as authorizing the N.S.A. to collect all calling records in the country.

The program “lacks a viable legal foundation under Section 215, implicates constitutional concerns under the First and Fourth Amendments, raises serious threats to privacy and civil liberties as a policy matter, and has shown only limited value,” the report said. “As a result, the board recommends that the government end the program.”

While a majority of the five-member board embraced that conclusion, two members dissented from the view that the program was illegal. But the panel was united in 10 other recommendations, including deleting raw phone records after three years instead of five and tightening access to search results.

MightyWhitey

01-23-2014, 11:42 AM

Christie is finally getting pegged as a bully..

He reminds me of Fred Flintstone or the guy from the Honeymooners..

A loud mouth Fatso
He would make a great President for the good ol' USA!

KevinNYC

01-24-2014, 12:58 AM

Board was unanimous on its recommendations and 3 out of 5 say program is illegal. (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/23/us/politics/watchdog-report-says-nsa-program-is-illegal-and-should-end.html?hp&_r=4)

Ackerman at the Guardian said the 2 of 5 who dissented have made a much better case about these program than the NSA has. They say the program is much more useful as a tool of quick response or triage than as a preventive program

[QUOTE]The dissenting minority, who cautiously embraced the practice, presented a defense of mass surveillance that was far more sophisticated and intellectually honest than the one presented until recently by the National Security Agency in the wake of the Edward Snowden revelations.

Accordingly, the difficulty they had in convincing their colleagues of the merits of their narrower defenses of the program speaks to the same difficulty the NSA has had in persuading skeptical members of Congress of its value. It looks to become crucial to the unfolding fight between the agency and Capitol Hill to amend or end the bulk collection outright.

.....

KevinNYC

01-24-2014, 02:04 AM

Perfectly timed for the Syrian peace talks in Geneva comes a report that is brilliant in its Machiavellian counter-intuitiveness. Assad has funded Al Qaeda as a way of discrediting the opposition.

Syria's Assad accused of boosting al-Qaeda with secret oil deals

Western intelligence suggests Bashar al-Assad collaborating with jihadists to persuade West the uprising is terrorist-led.

The Syrian regime of President Bashar al-Assad has funded and co-operated with al-Qaeda in a complex double game even as the terrorists fight Damascus, according to new allegations by Western intelligence agencies, rebels and al-Qaeda defectors.
Jabhat al-Nusra, and the even more extreme Islamic State of Iraq and al-Shams (ISIS), the two al-Qaeda affiliates operating in Syria, have both been financed by selling oil and gas from wells under their control to and through the regime, intelligence sources have told The Daily Telegraph.
Rebels and defectors say the regime also deliberately released militant prisoners to strengthen jihadist ranks at the expense of moderate rebel forces. The aim was to persuade the West that the uprising was sponsored by Islamist militants including al-Qaeda as a way of stopping Western support for it.

As the uprising against his rule began, Assad switched again, releasing al-Qaeda prisoners. It happened as part of an amnesty, said one Syrian activist who was released from Sednaya prison near Damascus at the same time.
“There was no explanation for the release of the jihadis,” the activist, called Mazen, said. “I saw some of them being paraded on Syrian state television, accused of being Jabhat al-Nusra and planting car bombs. This was impossible, as they had been in prison with me at the time the regime said the bombs were planted. He was using them to promote his argument that the revolution was made of extremists.”

Who knows if this is true?

KevinNYC

01-29-2014, 03:04 PM

Rasheed1

01-29-2014, 03:12 PM

Watch a NYC congressman threaten to throw a local cable TV reporter off a balcony.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/01/29/rep-michael-grimm-r-n-y-reportedly-threatens-journalist/
Staten Island :facepalm

Also for the NY ishers, he got this worked up over NY1? Wow.

Thats just dumb right there.. Whatever investigation he has going on, he is only drawing more attention and scrutiny to it

KevinNYC

01-29-2014, 03:36 PM

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]Thats just dumb right there.. Whatever investigation he has going on, he is only drawing more attention and scrutiny to it

KevinNYC

01-29-2014, 11:35 PM

KevinNYC

01-30-2014, 01:25 AM

It also shows the level of pure arrogance, entitlement and vitriol of some of the people in congress (and in Washington in general)

Apparently, this guy had several other blowups including one at NY1 studios that was off camera.

Jon Stewart had a good line on this. "In his defense, 'I'll throw you off a ****ing balcony' is a standard Staten Island goodbye."

KevinNYC

01-30-2014, 03:29 AM

The Islamist on Islamist battles have gotten so intense, the head of Al Qaeda has asked them to stop. (https://flashpoint-intel.com/inteldocument/flashpoint_ZawahiriUrgentCallSyria.012314.pdf)

KevinNYC

01-31-2014, 07:50 PM

The high school classmate Christie appointed to the port authority just plead the fifth

I beginning to think this David Wildstein guy is no fan of Chris Christie.

In additional to help ruin the month of January for Christie, he decided to ruin Super Bowl Sunday for Christie.

He could have released this news on Monday (https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl=dXlG1k2t7b8Dv-M2J3jFzH6RdpPKM&authuser=0&topic=h), but he chose to do it today.
Former aide accuses Christie of lying about bridge scandal
Ex-Port Authority Official Says 'Evidence Exists' Christie Knew About Lane
Gov. Chris Christie knew about George Washington Bridge lane closures during shutdown: aide
Christie knew about bridge lane closings, ex-official says

Monday was already going to be a bad day for Christie because it was the deadline 20 people and organization who have been subpoenaed to turn over their stuff. The documents wouldn't be released to the public, but the news would still have been filled with stories just on that. But Wildstein went ahead with a new fresh allegation that Christie will be forced to respond to whenever he attends a Super Bowl event.

HarryCallahan

02-09-2014, 09:51 PM

http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/europe/197656-carney-blames-moscow-for-leaked-ukraine-call

Haven't seen much coverage of this in western media outlets.

[QUOTE=Kyiv Post]In a conversation leaked online and posted to YouTube on Feb. 6, voices closely resembling those of U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt and U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland discuss loosely the roles of Ukrainian opposition leaders and the United Nations, and frustration over inaction and indecision by the European Union in solving Ukraine

HarryCallahan

02-09-2014, 09:53 PM

longhornfan1234

02-11-2014, 12:49 PM

The House is likely to vote Wednesday on a plan to extend the government's borrowing authority into 2015 in exchange for reversing a cut to the pensions of working-age military veterans that Congress approved just two months ago to try to trim the budget deficit," theNew York Times reports.

"The plan, presented to House Republicans on Monday evening by their leaders, represents a dramatic reversal for the House after three years of using the debt ceiling to extract major spending cuts and conservative policy changes. In this instance, the debt ceiling deadline -- looming at the end of this month -- will be used to reverse the only difficult spending cut included in a budget and deficit-reduction deal reached in December."

Roll Call: "The deal remains tenuous, however, as leaders will still have to round up a large swath of support from the Republican Conference."

Republicans to trade debt limit for more spending....:roll: :roll:

KevinNYC

02-11-2014, 01:04 PM

Start a Part IV. There's a bunch of stuff happening.

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin is on trial for corruption.

We are debating attacking another American member of Al Qaida. Apparently the new drone rules where the military makes the strike slows the process down.

The deficit projection for 2014 got revised down again, slated to be about $160 billion less than last year.

In early 2016 polling, the Republican frontrunner is Mike Huckabee.

Mike Huckabee 16%
Jeb Bush 14%
Chris Christie 13%
Rand Paul 11%
Ted Cruz 8%
Marco Rubio 8%
Paul Ryan 8%
Scott Walker 6%
Bobby Jindal 5%
Someone else/Not sure 10%

KevinNYC

02-11-2014, 01:11 PM

Republicans to trade debt limit for more spending....:roll: :roll:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/us/politics/boehner-to-bring-debt-ceiling-to-vote-without-policy-attachments.html?_r=0

Boehner's now doing a clean debt limit raise
[QUOTE]Facing a rebellion over his latest debt ceiling proposal, Speaker John A. Boehner on Tuesday told House Republicans that he would bring legislation to a vote that would raise the government

rufuspaul

02-11-2014, 01:15 PM

In early 2016 polling, the Republican frontrunner is Mike Huckabee.

:facepalm

KevinNYC

02-11-2014, 01:22 PM

:facepalm
Also further bad news for the GOP featuring your brother-in-law. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ex-gen-david-petraeus-hillary-clinton-tremendous-president-article-1.1607801)

rufuspaul

02-11-2014, 01:45 PM

Also further bad news for the GOP featuring your brother-in-law. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ex-gen-david-petraeus-hillary-clinton-tremendous-president-article-1.1607801)

:lol He probably f*cked her too.

Damn, I just can't conceive of a president Hillary. Guess I'd better get used to it.

KevinNYC

02-11-2014, 02:05 PM

:lol He probably f*cked her too.

Damn, I just can't conceive of a president Hillary. Guess I'd better get used to it.Also, this means a return of Monica Lewinsky (https://www.google.com/search?q=lewinksy&oq=lewinksy&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2866j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=lewinsky&safe=off&tbm=nws) which has already begun. I was thinking of doing a post for those who were too young to remember it of the insanity of the mid 90's Clinton hunting. It's one of those things I always think of when people ask why I'm a Democratic partisan or when people claim there's no difference between the parties.

Both Rand Paul and the head of the RNC have been enthusiastically bringing up Lewinsky for a few weeks now. It's probably terrible politics for the Republicans, but they probably won't be able not dive in head first either. Some candidate/PAC knows they are going to be able to use it to get a lot of ink/donations by doing it, which will force the rest of the field to have to weigh in on it.

KevinNYC

02-11-2014, 02:07 PM

kentatm

02-11-2014, 02:36 PM

It's what got George W. Bush the Republican nomination since it discredited every Republican in Washington and Rove told Bush not to go near it, he came out the whole thing looking very good.

Impeachment damaged all his Republican rivals, damaged Gore and forced to make the disastrous VP pick of Joe Lieberman.

I always thought Gore massively ****ed up by distancing himself from Clinton when he ran.

Affair be damned the man still had high approval ratings and was/is a killer speaker/fundraiser.

A hard barnstorming tour of Florida by Clinton could have swung the election.

KevinNYC

02-11-2014, 02:44 PM

I always thought Gore massively ****ed up by distancing himself from Clinton when he ran.

Affair be damned the man still had high approval ratings and was/is a killer speaker/fundraiser.

A hard barnstorming tour of Florida by Clinton could have swung the election.
Yup.

Also the State Department released it report on the Keystone XL pipeline.
They claim there will not be significant environment impact if the pipeline is built. There reasoning is Canada is going to find a way to use it's tar sands oil one way or the other. That is, they will be build a pipeline to some place else to refine it. Or they will ship it by train.

Next Kerry and then Obama have to give their decisions.

Rasheed1

02-11-2014, 03:22 PM

WTF is Rand Paul smoking these days? :biggums:

Monica Lewinsky??

Does he believe this is good issue for him??

He equates Bill Clinton getting head to the GOP war on women??

The war on women is about f*cked up policies, not cheating with interns..

:facepalm

longhornfan1234

02-11-2014, 03:45 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/us/politics/boehner-to-bring-debt-ceiling-to-vote-without-policy-attachments.html?_r=0

Boehner's now doing a clean debt limit raise

Boehner will go down as one of the worst house speakers in history.

longhornfan1234

02-11-2014, 03:47 PM

kentatm

02-11-2014, 04:04 PM

This poll can't be true. Huckabee and Jeb are the front runners? :facepalm

Paul, Cruz, and Walker should be the front runners.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

KevinNYC

02-11-2014, 07:23 PM

Boehner will go down as one of the worst house speakers in history.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/68772/large/housedebtlimit.jpg

Boehner is wising up. Vote is already done. Debt limit idiocy lasted 1 day. Let's Republicans vote for default and let's the grown up votes for solvency.

He realized there's no benefit in letting the wingers damage the part while making him look powerless.

What are they going to do, recall him as speaker, and then face a split vote that brings back Pelosi

HarryCallahan

02-11-2014, 10:50 PM

This poll can't be true. Huckabee and Jeb are the front runners? :facepalm

Paul, Cruz, and Walker should be the front runners.

It's one poll. I've seen another poll that had Jeb and Huck in low single figures and Christie at 9%. It really doesn't mean anything.

I am really looking forward to the republican debates. Not sure how they're gonna top Gingrich-Bachmann-Santorum-Cain though..

Balla_Status

02-12-2014, 06:04 AM

Hilary Clinton gonna be president? Guess I'm not returning to America for awhile.

KevinNYC

02-12-2014, 10:49 AM

Hilary Clinton gonna be president? Guess I'm not returning to America for awhile.

Well you could come back for 3 years if you wish, as the next president won't take office until Jan 2017.

It's still way, way early, but she is currently the biggest Democratic frontrunner ever. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/01/30/hillary-clinton-is-the-biggest-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-presidential-nomination-ever-yes-ever/) She has a 61 point lead over Biden.

The Republicans are in rougher shape as the Tea Party still will be strong in 2016 and outside groups will raise enough money to allow some unelectable candidates a deep run. Christie was polling as high 24% just a couple of months ago, but he's back down among the pack.

If you look at the last six presidential elections, there are some states that voted Democratic each time and some that have voted Republican each time.

It's 18 states for the Democrats and 12 for the Republicans. The only big state for the Republicans is Texas, where as several big ones went for the Democrats. It gives you 242 electoral votes for the Democrats and 102 for the Republicans, so they have a smaller margin of error.

Christie was the Republican who did best against Clinton. That is gone. (Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/hillary-clinton-chris-christie-2016-poll-103043.html#ixzz2t7QW3fWU)

Hillary Clinton seems to be benefiting from the bridge scandal plaguing New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who is slipping further away in a 2016 matchup, according to a new poll.
Clinton leads the Republican governor by 16 points, 55 percent to 39 percent of the vote among registered voters, a poll by CNN/ORC released Monday shows. In a December CNN poll, Christie held the lead over Clinton 48 percent to 46 percent.

That's a 19 point swing in a couple of months and other Republican names aren't doing much better.

A lot can happen in 2 and half years, but she is looking incredibly strong.

So get prepared for more Lewinsky and more Benghazi. The Benghazi swift boaters just formed the other day. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/11/us-usa-clinton-benghazi-idUSBREA1A1YM20140211)

KevinNYC

02-12-2014, 10:59 AM

Unfortunately for the Benghazi Swift Boaters, even the latest report from Republicans in the House (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/republicans-investigating-benghazi-blame-white-house-state-dept-for-failures/2014/02/10/b03ebbe2-929b-11e3-b227-12a45d109e03_story.html), finds nothing new.

Republicans on the House Armed Services Committee largely exonerated the U.S. military from responsibility for failures associated with the September 2012 terrorist attacks in Benghazi, Libya, instead blaming the White House and the State Department for ignoring heightened threats in the area.

The committee majority’s conclusions, in a report released Tuesday, do not differ significantly from those reached by other congressional panels that have touched on the military’s role in the Benghazi incident.

Fox News and other Republicans have been pushing this myth that military was ordered to "Stand Down" in Benghazi. (https://www.google.com/search?q=stand+down+benghazi&oq=stand+down+be&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.5164j0j4&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8) This report is just the latest of many to debunk that.

The report found that there had been no order given to a six-man military group based in Tripoli to “stand down” rather than rush to Benghazi, but rather that the majority of the group was ordered to stay in the Libyan capital to combat possible threats there.