Is Shaquille O'Neal the GOAT Center?

[SavageMode]

4

[red1]

ranking players by peak is just as valuable as ranking career-wise and when ranking in that fashion shaq is a clear contender for the GOAT

[Uncle Drew]

Obvious agenda is obvious.

[$LakerGold]

Yeah.

[SavageMode]

ranking players by peak is just as valuable as ranking career-wise and when ranking in that fashion shaq is a clear contender for the GOAT
What other Centers even compare to his dominance on court?

[red1]

What other Centers even compare to his dominance on court?
lebron at that age would also be a sidekick

[SavageMode]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui53VtVBF3M

[Round Mound]

In Terms of Scoring While The Clock Ticks He Is The GOAT Offensive Center!

[Solid Snake]

Shaq is such a unique player to rank, because the absolute unadulterated chaos and potential for destruction was there. But how many seasons did he TRULY harness that power he had to destroy galaxies? Can you count them on one hand?

[SavageMode]

Shaq is such a unique player to rank, because the absolute unadulterated chaos and potential for destruction was there. But how many seasons did he TRULY harness that power he had to destroy galaxies? Can you count them on one hand?
He could be considered Goat. If only it weren't for his Free throw flaw, I'd put him next to MJ. He was truly unstoppable and a wrecking force for the Lakers. 3 FMVP. Insane.

[iTare]

Does the pope sh!t in the woods?

[MavsSuperFan]

imo yes

[TheMarkMadsen]

What other Centers even compare to his dominance on court?


Hakeem, Wilt, Russell, KAJ, D Rob in the 90s

[Orlando Magic]

Career? No.

Peak? Yes.

GOAT peak player (not just out of centers)? Yes.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

KAJ is the GOAT Center and the GOAT player


Hakeem, Wilt, Russell, KAJ, D Rob in the 90s
Youre an idiot if u think Admiral is on the same level as them

[moe94]

KAJ is the GOAT Center and the GOAT player


Youre an idiot if u think Admiral is on the same level as them

David Robinson > Russell :confusedshrug:

I couldn't care less he won a gorillian rings with a HoF cast in a terrible era.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Abdul Jabbar and it isn't really close, maybe for 3 years it was close..

[LAZERUSS]

David Robinson > Russell :confusedshrug:

I couldn't care less he won a gorillian rings with a HoF cast in a terrible era.

And yet, how about Eddy Curry?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryed01&p2=onealsh01

[$LakerGold]

Bill Russell would have been Mutombo/Shaq-days if he went up against Shaq. lol

[moe94]

And yet, how about Eddy Curry?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryed01&p2=onealsh01

I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say here.

Are you comparing Curry to Robinson?

[LAZERUSS]

Abdul Jabbar and it isn't really close, maybe for 3 years it was close..

If Kareem is the GOAT, that must mean that Moses, aka "The Kareem Killer", was GOAT+1...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=abdulka01&p2=malonmo01

Especially in their playoff H2H's.

BTW, you don't see the majority of their rebounding H2H's in that link, but Moses had entire seasonal H2H's of outrebounding KAJ by around 10 rpg (as well as a 10+ advanatge in their '83 Finals.)

Moses...

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[LAZERUSS]

I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say here.

Are you comparing Curry to Robinson?

How about Curry vs Russell? Do you think Curry would have battled Russell to a draw?

[LAZERUSS]

If Shaq would just wipe the floor with the centers of the 60's and 70's, how come a slob like Curry was outplaying him? Hell, who would have ever guessed that in their H2H's, Curry would have had the high point game?

[Odinn]

Peak-wise, he has a very strong case. But career-wise, he is behind of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Russell.

[Marchesk]

I don't understand how Shaq has the GOAT peak. Wouldn't Wilts' 24/24/8 season on 68.3% with a team that won 68 games and beat the Celtics be hard to top? Wilt averaged 8 assists as a center and shot 68% from the field!!! When did Shaq ever do something like that? Wilt was on the only team to ever beat a Healthy Russell-led Celitics. The only.

[Marchesk]

Career-wise, Shaq has no case over Kareem. Zero. It's not even a conversation.

[Marchesk]

Bill Russell would have been Mutombo/Shaq-days if he went up against Shaq. lol

Except nobody, and I mean nobody, has Mutombo anywhere near Russell on the all-time list. Want to know why? Because people understand that Russell contributed more than Mutombo did. Anyway, it wouldn't be Shaq vs Rusdell one on one. It's a team sport, and nobody in the history of the game has won like Russell did. That's what makes him a GOAT candidate. Not whether he could out duel a 340 pound monster. He often got out-dueled by Wilt. So what? His teams won. Russell did what his teams needed to win.

[clutchinho]

Let's break it down

In terms of stats - not close, goes to Kareem or Wilt
In terms of winning and leadership - not close, goes to Russell
In terms of peak - Again it'd be Kareem, Russell or Hakeem. Shaq simply had too many holes in his game, terrible P&R defender and a total liability at the FT line, so bad you couldn't even give him the ball in the last few minutes. In todays game a team anchored by Shaq would give up 100+ points a game easy.

So no, Shaq is not close to GOAT centre.

[Marchesk]

David Robinson > Russell :confusedshrug:

I couldn't care less he won a gorillian rings with a HoF cast in a terrible era.

But how many of those guys got into the Hall because of Russell?

[clutchinho]

David Robinson > Russell :confusedshrug:

I couldn't care less he won a gorillian rings with a HoF cast in a terrible era.

Bill Russell had 6-7 HOFs on his team in a 10 team league

Lebron has 4 HOFs(3 prime) on his team in a 30 team league


Whos team was relatively more stacked? 11 rings is no joke in any era, Russell was a winner.

[bizil]

In the area of the giants (the paint), Shaq is the most unstoppable force EVER! Wilt is right there, but Shaq was more massive, had great footwork, and was so athletic for his size. Plus he was a great passer out of double teams to get his teammates involved as well.

But GOAT wise, Shaq falls behind Wilt, Kareem, and Russell. But I do think Shaq had a chance to be the GOAT center, but due to injuries, beefs, etc. he didn't quite accumulate enough to pass the big three centers. But peak value wise, Shaq has a GREAT CASE to be the best center ever!

[SavageMode]

Prime Shaq could beat Prime Wilt anyday.

[Breezy]

If Kareem is the GOAT, that must mean that Moses, aka "The Kareem Killer", was GOAT+1...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=abdulka01&p2=malonmo01

Especially in their playoff H2H's.

BTW, you don't see the majority of their rebounding H2H's in that link, but Moses had entire seasonal H2H's of outrebounding KAJ by around 10 rpg (as well as a 10+ advanatge in their '83 Finals.)

Moses...

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

I've read recently that Moses was singularly focused on outplaying Kareem in those matchups. So much so that he hurt his team by being out of position because he was trying to get rebounds. It shows that these numbers need to be taken in context. It reminds me of Rodman in his later years or JJ hickson the last couple years, or Marcus Camby. Or even ( Dare I say it) Kobe Bryant in more recent years. For the record Kareem Did win 7 more of their head to head games than moses did.
Having awesome stats isn't necessarily the same as being good. Heck sometimes even winning doesn't mean your good. Not that I agree with the OP's premise that Shaq is the goat center. He's clearly behind some others ie: Wilt, Kareem, Russel.

...and please for the Love of all things holy keep your reply to me under 3 paragraphs. I didn't attack Wilt. No need to list his stats.

[moe94]

Stats don't mean you're good, neither does winning. Exactly what does then? He was hurting his team getting rebounds? Absolutely hilarious.

[Breezy]

Stats don't mean you're good, neither does winning. Exactly what does then? He was hurting his team getting rebounds? Absolutely hilarious.

A few things. 1 good is relative. Everyone in the league is good. Good here is relative to the other top tier all time players. So it's already a thin slice. I don't think you need a refresher on all the players who put up stats but don't have an impact. There are plenty. You hurt your team by prioritizing rebounds over more important things like defensive rotations, fast break oportunities.. ect. Some players just get high totals by taking their teammates rebounds, not getting unique boards. Similarly some players score a lot because the ball runs through them, not because they're great scorers.

[NumberSix]

top 4 player of all time

[Sakkreth]

If not to consider with how much he got away (travels and offensive fouls hardly ever called for him) he definetly has a strong case.

[dr.hee]

In the area of the giants (the paint), Shaq is the most unstoppable force EVER! Wilt is right there, but Shaq was more massive, had great footwork, and was so athletic for his size. Plus he was a great passer out of double teams to get his teammates involved as well.

But GOAT wise, Shaq falls behind Wilt, Kareem, and Russell. But I do think Shaq had a chance to be the GOAT center, but due to injuries, beefs, etc. he didn't quite accumulate enough to pass the big three centers. But peak value wise, Shaq has a GREAT CASE to be the best center ever!

Just my 2 cents...Jlauber will surely elaborate on that.

Let's consider a few things here...Wilt in his prime was sleeping with at least 10,000 women a year. Adjusted for pace, that would still be about 7,425 women p.a. today. My god, a crippled Wilt coming from surgery was still making sweet love to 6900 women in 1972 while blocking about 9000 ones that weren't up to his standard. H2H, even prime Kareem couldn't reject as many women as Wilt did.

Hell, even if you assume the 60/70s were a weak era for women, it still doesn't explain why Wilt banged more women than Nate Thurmond and Alcindor combined, while having to deal with knee issues. And while there are no boxscores of Wilt beating up a pack of mountain lions while searching for the holy grail, I have heard Red Auerbach say that Chamberlain used to win boxing fights against various animals in high school, including grizzly bears, cangaroos, killer wales and unicorns.

Anyway...don't know if there's a true GOAT amongst centers. In my opinion, Shaq (and Hakeem as well) couldn't really have guarded Wilt. But I don't see Chamberlain shutting them down either. Just too much offensively.
So I think it's more like a top tier of centers where everybody has a case for being picked #1 depending on the cast available. But no clear number one for me.

[Marchesk]

Let's consider a few things here...Wilt in his prime was sleeping with at least 10,000 women a year. Adjusted for pace, that would still be about 7,425 women p.a. today. My god, a crippled Wilt coming from surgery was still making sweet love to 6900 women in 1972 while blocking about 9000 ones that weren't up to his standard. H2H, even prime Kareem couldn't reject as many women as Wilt did.

Hell, even if you assume the 60/70s were a weak era for women, it still doesn't explain why Wilt banged more women than Nate Thurmond and Alcindor combined, while having to deal with knee issues. And while there are no boxscores of Wilt beating up a pack of mountain lions while searching for the holy grail, I have heard Red Auerbach say that Chamberlain used to win boxing fights against various animals in high school, including grizzly bears, cangaroos, killer wales and unicorns.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[julizaver]

[QUOTE=SavageMode]4

[Genaro]

Just my 2 cents...Jlauber will surely elaborate on that.

Let's consider a few things here...Wilt in his prime was sleeping with at least 10,000 women a year. Adjusted for pace, that would still be about 7,425 women p.a. today. My god, a crippled Wilt coming from surgery was still making sweet love to 6900 women in 1972 while blocking about 9000 ones that weren't up to his standard. H2H, even prime Kareem couldn't reject as many women as Wilt did.

Hell, even if you assume the 60/70s were a weak era for women, it still doesn't explain why Wilt banged more women than Nate Thurmond and Alcindor combined, while having to deal with knee issues. And while there are no boxscores of Wilt beating up a pack of mountain lions while searching for the holy grail, I have heard Red Auerbach say that Chamberlain used to win boxing fights against various animals in high school, including grizzly bears, cangaroos, killer wales and unicorns.

Anyway...don't know if there's a true GOAT amongst centers. In my opinion, Shaq (and Hakeem as well) couldn't really have guarded Wilt. But I don't see Chamberlain shutting them down either. Just too much offensively.
So I think it's more like a top tier of centers where everybody has a case for being picked #1 depending on the cast available. But no clear number one for me.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :applause:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

As much as I like Shaq, peak KAJ would have ran circles around him.

[2LeTTeRS]

In the area of the giants (the paint), Shaq is the most unstoppable force EVER! Wilt is right there, but Shaq was more massive, had great footwork, and was so athletic for his size. Plus he was a great passer out of double teams to get his teammates involved as well.

Shaq was unstoppable from the moment he enterred the league; but he didn't win anything until all the other big men had retired or exited their prime. When he won titles the best 5s in the league were Ben Wallace, Vlade Divac, and an aging Mutombo and D Rob.