Penny Hardaway in today's NBA

[Shade8780]

Where does he rank?

[IGOTGAME]

Just wait til Dante Exum gets here and look where he ranks...

But really, he is easily top 5. NBA is watered down in top end talent right now.

[KobesFinger]

Top 15, possibly top 10.

[PJR]

1994-95 Penny? Third best player after LBJ and Durant.

[Shade8780]

Just wait til Dante Exum gets here and look where he ranks...

But really, he is easily top 5. NBA is watered down in top end talent right now.
That's why I wanted to know :lol

[tmacattack33]

He'd be number 3 right now, right behind Durant.

Peak Penny in 1996 was top 5 in what was one of the more stacked times this league has ever seen. He was behind MJ and ahead of Pippen, John Stockton, and Gary Payton as far as best perimeter players.

With the rule changes though, he might have done better now than he did in 1996, so he could even be ahead of Durant in that case.

[imdaman99]

Top 10 easily, likely top 5. C'mon guys. Penny was an all-world talent that could do it all.

[atljonesbro]

22 ppg, 7 apg, 4 rpg, 2 spg.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Dude was a 1st teamer just a few years into his career before he was inured.

With the laxed perimeter rules and no hand checking there would be no stopping Penny from getting to the lane. Dude was as explosive as Rose, ha a nice mid range game and could handle the rock like Magic.

Penny & Lebron would be 1a/1b especially this year.

Penny is puttin up 26/8/9 all day IMO.

He'd be Lebron just less passive and less physically dominant. Yeah penny was 6'7 but he wasn't as big as Lebron.

Penny would be the best guard in the game by a mile.

[atljonesbro]

Dude was a 1st teamer just a few years into his career before he was inured.

With the laxed perimeter rules and no hand checking there would be no stopping Penny from getting to the lane. Dude was as explosive as Rose, ha a nice mid range game and could handle the rock like Magic.

Penny & Lebron would be 1a/1b especially this year.

Penny is puttin up 26/8/9 all day IMO.

He'd be Lebron just less passive and less physically dominant. Yeah penny was 6'7 but he wasn't as big as Lebron.

Penny would be the best guard in the game by a mile.
Got some facts to support all this?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Got some facts to support all this?


1st team all NBA 95-96..2/3 of his first 3 years he was ALL NBA team First team

put up 21/4/7 during that stretch on 51% shooting..


so yeah like i said, top guard in the league, putting up 25+ easy due to the way they put superstars on the line these days..

in his two years w/o Shaq even while battling through injuries and being a shell of his former self he was grabbing 6 rebounds per game

so yeah 25/7-8/8+ a game for a prime Penny (which we never even saw) in today's league isn't very far fetched

[atljonesbro]

1st team all NBA 95-96..2/3 of his first 3 years he was ALL NBA team First team

put up 21/4/7 during that stretch on 51% shooting..


so yeah like i said, top guard in the league, putting up 25+ easy due to the way they put superstars on the line these days.
So we should just tack on an extra 6 ppg for all guards back in the day due to easy FT's? Why would only 90s guards be able to take advantage of these easy FT's and inflate their stats but guards today somehow aren't inflating their stats due to that?

[Swaggin916]

Dude was a 1st teamer just a few years into his career before he was inured.

With the laxed perimeter rules and no hand checking there would be no stopping Penny from getting to the lane. Dude was as explosive as Rose, ha a nice mid range game and could handle the rock like Magic.

Penny & Lebron would be 1a/1b especially this year.

Penny is puttin up 26/8/9 all day IMO.

He'd be Lebron just less passive and less physically dominant. Yeah penny was 6'7 but he wasn't as big as Lebron.

Penny would be the best guard in the game by a mile.

He was not as explosive as Rose let's be real... He wasn't even as explosive as Lebron. D-Wade I could go with. I honestly think Scottie Pippen is probably the most fair comparison... but a better shooter. A do it all intelligent player/playmaker that can be the star or 2nd option. Like others have said, he would just be a less effective Lebron. Just a tier below.

[TheMarkMadsen]

So we should just tack on an extra 6 ppg for all guards back in the day due to easy FT's? Why would only 90s guards be able to take advantage of these easy FT's and inflate their stats but guards today somehow aren't inflating their stats due to that?


what are you talking about? did you watch Penny play? Dude was a slasher who finished extremely well in traffic and had amazing body control..

Penny was one of the best finisher's in the league during his first few years

first Penny Hardaway video that comes up on youtube and the first 4 plays are all fouls in todays NBA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbWXxr0ge8


Dude was in his 3rd year..so yeah if you account for the improvement in his game over the next few years if he stays healthy, and you put that physical play and explosive slasher in todays league and an extra 5ppg isn't far fetched.

[TheMarkMadsen]

He was not as explosive as Rose let's be real... He wasn't even as explosive as Lebron. D-Wade I could go with. I honestly think Scottie Pippen is probably the most fair comparison... but a better shooter. A do it all intelligent player/playmaker that can be the star or 2nd option. Like others have said, he would just be a less effective Lebron. Just a tier below.


who does this look like from todays NBA?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xulAGFIFV8

[tmacattack33]

He was not as explosive as Rose let's be real... He wasn't even as explosive as Lebron. D-Wade I could go with. I honestly think Scottie Pippen is probably the most fair comparison... but a better shooter. A do it all intelligent player/playmaker that can be the star or 2nd option. Like others have said, he would just be a less effective Lebron. Just a tier below.

No he wasn't, but he was 5 inches taller. If he really was just as explosive as Rose, at 6'7 he'd be the best player of all-time.

In 1996, Penny came in 3rd in MVP voting right behind MJ and Karl Malone, and it was rightfully so. He beasted it up, both with Shaq hurt and with Shaq healthy.

He made the all-nba team at the guard spot next to MJ both years of his peak over Gary Payton and John Stockton. Both Gary Payton and Stockton would be right there with Chris Paul in a debate for best PG today.

[atljonesbro]

what are you talking about? did you watch Penny play? Dude was a slasher who finished extremely well in traffic and had amazing body control..

Penny was one of the best finisher's in the league during his first few years

first Penny Hardaway video that comes up on youtube and the first 4 plays are all fouls in todays NBA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbWXxr0ge8


Dude was in his 3rd year..so yeah if you account for the improvement in his game over the next few years if he stays healthy, and you put that physical play and explosive slasher in todays league and an extra 5ppg isn't far fetched.
So I guess we should just subtract 5 ppg from guys like James Harden and Kevin Durant. Harden would average 19 ppg and DURANT 24 PPG LMAO. Harden is taking 9 FT's a game this year aka the god of getting to the line in the NBA. Penny took 7.1 in 95/96. MASSIVE DIFFERENCE WOW ASTONISHING.

[TheMarkMadsen]

So I guess we should just subtract 5 ppg from guys like James Harden and Kevin Durant. Harden would average 19 ppg and DURANT 24 PPG LMAO. Harden is taking 9 FT's a game this year aka the god of getting to the line in the NBA. Penny took 7.1 in 95/96. MASSIVE DIFFERENCE WOW ASTONISHING.


you're a moron, you're not understanding anything and are just running with wild exaggerations

you didn't watch the dude play why are you even in this thread trying to talk about him. Go back to bball reference son

[atljonesbro]

you're a moron
Wow you really got me. BRB gonna go cry this one off.

Sorry I don't agree your hero would be as good as LeBron. As if 22 ppg, 7 apg, 4 rpg, 2 spg on 50% isn't a fair estimate.

[senelcoolidge]

I remember Penny back in college. With today's rules he would have had it easier and of course would have better stats. Today's rules would be perfect for a guy like Penny.

[pauk]

Something between Lebron & Shaun Livingston.

[Owl]

1st team all NBA 95-96..2/3 of his first 3 years he was ALL NBA team First team

put up 21/4/7 during that stretch on 51% shooting..


so yeah like i said, top guard in the league, putting up 25+ easy due to the way they put superstars on the line these days..

in his two years w/o Shaq even while battling through injuries and being a shell of his former self he was grabbing 6 rebounds per game

so yeah 25/7-8/8+ a game for a prime Penny (which we never even saw) in today's league isn't very far fetched
I'm a Penny fan, he was very, very good. That said

1) You've moved your averages from 26/8/9 to 25/7-8/8+
2) You're (apparently based on this last post, though this wasn't clear earlier) talking about a hypothetical "peak" Penny rather than one that actually played.
3) Regarding "the way they put superstars on the line these days" . Four players averaged 9 or more free throw attempts in Penny's best season ('96) two did so last year, 15 players averaged 7 ftas in '96, nine did so last year. Refs have always put superstars on the line. At best you might argue that the fouls were harder then, maybe his fragility is less important, or he's more able to finish through the softer fouls. That's the best you could argue.
4) His rebound numbers at his peak were way off 8 boards. In a different role, several years later he got 5.7 and 5.8. Projecting a player with a trb% that never got to double figures as being an 8rpg player?

Anyway, to the general question, adapt for your belief of league quality however you may, his '96 advanced stats would have put him 4th in PER last year, and 4th in WS/48 (behind LeBron, Durant and Paul in both cases). That seems reasonably fair.