1968 EDF: Wilt chokes away another championship

[Deuce Bigalow]

1968 Sixers had a 3-1 series lead over the Celtics after winning 3 games in a row. Led by Chamberlain, they managed to lose the next 3 games in a row, costing them the series and a potential repeat championship. Here are Wilt's stats in Games 6 and 7.

1968 EDF vs Boston

Game 6 (L 106-114)

20 points
6-21 FG
8-22 FT

Hall of Fame teammate Hal Greer scored 40 points.
Sixers missed 19 freethrows, with 14 of them being missed by Chamberlain.

Game 7 (L 96-100)

14 points
4-9 FG
6-15 FT

Hal Greer scored 22, Chet Walker scored 19, Wali Jones 18, Luke Jackson 15, Wilt was the fifth leading scorer for his team and 9th leading scorer in the game.
Sixers missed 16 freethrows, with 9 of them being missed by Chamberlain.

Wilt Chamberlain had a combined total of 10-30 FG and 14-38 FT in Games 6 and 7.

From 1968-1970 Wilt Chamberlain's seasons came to an end by losing in a Game 7. In 1968 blowing a 3-1 series lead over the Celtics, in 1969 blowing a 2-0 and 3-2 series to Boston in the Finals, and in 1970 losing to the New York Knicks in the Finals.

[dankok8]

That was a bad collapse no doubt about it. He choked...

In the 2nd half of Game 7 I don't care how you feel you have to demand the ball and try to make plays for your team. He touched the ball a handful of times and took 2 shots. Then years later he had the gall to blame his teammates for missing open looks.

[Deuce Bigalow]

That was a bad collapse no doubt about it. He choked...

In the 2nd half of Game 7 I don't care how you feel you have to demand the ball and try to make plays for your team. He touched the ball a handful of times and took 2 shots. Then years later he had the gall to blame his teammates for missing open looks.
Let's see how JL will try to spin this one.

[LAZERUSS]

That was a bad collapse no doubt about it. He choked...

In the 2nd half of Game 7 I don't care how you feel you have to demand the ball and try to make plays for your team. He touched the ball a handful of times and took 2 shots. Then years later he had the gall to blame his teammates for missing open looks.

And obviously you didn't do any research on that series did you? Wilt was being treated for numerous ailments, including a strained hamstring behind his knee, a partial tear of the right calf (a similar injury that Reed suffered in the '70 Finals...and he was basically worthless after it), a bum toe, and arthritis in both knees...all of which had him NOTICEABLY LIMPING in that series. In fact, Russell commented later that a "Lessor man would not have played"...which of course meant, NO ONE else would have been playing.

Of course, your boy Kareem missed CHUNKS of two different seasons with a broken hand, and yet Chamberlain dominated game five of the '72 Finals with one hand badly sprained, and the other FRACTURED. Oh, and Kareem missed the clinching game six of the '80 Finals with a sprained ankle. Unfortunately for Wilt, he didn't have a Magic to lead his teams in his absence.

As for the comment that he touched the ball a handful of times in game seven was absolutely correct. During the course of the regular season the ball would go into Chamberlain about 15 times per quarter. In the second half of game seven, he TOUCHED the ball on the offensive end SEVEN times, and only twice in the 4th quarter, and both of those were offensive rebounds.

It was not up to Wilt to demand the ball, either. As great a coach as Hannum was, he blew it. I found it interesting that in an early season game in '67, against Thurmond, in a first half in which Chamberlain took a couple of shots, Hannum asked his teammates to go into Wilt in the second half. The result? Chamberlain torched a helpless Nate for 24 second half points, en route to yet another triple double. And yet, in their biggest game of the '68 season, he didn't say a word. And again, had Chamberlain demanded the ball, can you imagine the backlash he would have received? The man was undeservedly labeled as selfish early in his career. And in '68 he had led the league in assists. Had he suddenly started throwing up shots, the media would have had a field day.

The bottom line...Wilt couldn't score without the ball. The fact that he only TOUCHED the ball a total of seven times in the second half is all you need to know.

BTW, while Wilt went 4-9 from the floor in that game, his teammates had these stat lines, Greer 8-25 from the field; Wali Jones (who was also playing injured) 8-22; Walker, 8-22; Jackson (also playing injured) 7-17; and Guokas, 2-10. Oh, and Chamberlain, as always, led everyone in rebounding, with 34.

And, for the series, a hobbled Chamberlain, even with those two poor games in six and seven, still averaged 22 ppg, 25 rpg, 7 apg, and shot .487 from the field (one of only two times in his eight post-season series against Russell in which he shot less than .500 BTW...and in a post-season NBA that still only shot .446.)

Furthermore, the Sixers were without HOFer Billy Cunningham that entire series. Factor in that in game five, and leading the series 3-1, and only trailing by two points at the time, both Wali Jones and Luke Jackson suffered leg injuries, and were basically worthless the last two games, as well as Chamberlain playing with his assorted injuries, and it was actually quite amazing that the Sixers only lost a game seven by four points.

Clearly, had the Sixers been healthy in that post-season, and it would have been a repeat of the '67 EDF's, when they destroyed the Celtics, 4-1.

But again, that was Wilt "the Choker" for you. Only Chamberlain would get ripped in a series in which he averaged 22 ppg, led both teams in rebounding and assists, and still easily outplayed Russell in every facet of the game. A Wilt who PLAYED every minute of that series with multiple injuries.

[LAZERUSS]

I like how the OP always brings up Wilt's FT shooting, and yet never brings up Kobe's post-season FG%'s.

In fact, Kobe was so awful, his team's were seldom even in the big games that they lost. A case could be made that no other GOAT candidate was ever involved in so many closeout blowouts. He was routinely losing closeout games by 20+ points, and in fact had 30 and 39 point losses in closeout games. And he was also involved in a blowing a 24 point lead in a critical game in the 2008 Finals (and again, his team lost the closeout game by 39 points.) Furthermore, while the OP rips Wilt for his scoring decline, what happened to Kobe in his biggest post-season game, in his highest scoring season? He was WAY below his scoring norm, and his team blew a 3-1 series lead in that series too.

The fact was, Kobe shot worse in nearly every post-season in which he played than in his regular seasons. He then shot even worse in his all but one of his seven Finals, and in many, much worse. And, then he shot even worse in the closeout games of those Finals, even in wins.

[LAZERUSS]

Kobe in his Finals...


How about Kobe and his regular season FG%, and his Finals' FG%'s...

99-00 .468 -- .367
00-01 .464 -- .415
01-02 .469 -- .514 (oh wait...against the star-studded Nets)
03-04 .438 -- .381
07-08 .459 -- .405
08-09 .467 -- .430
09-10 .456 -- .409

Kobe in the clinching games of those seven Finals...

99-00 -- .296
00-01 -- .389
01-02 -- .438
03-04 -- .333
07-08 -- .318
08-09 -- .435
09-10 -- .250


Consistent. The bigger the game, the worse he shot...

[kurple]

Let's see how JL will try to spin this one.
everyone has bad games

6-24

[millwad]

Kobe in his Finals...

Kobe has nothing to do with the topic, why do you always bash other players as soon as someone writes something about Wilt? Other players and their failures doesn't make up for Wilt's massive choke jobs.

[LAZERUSS]

As for the '70 Finals, Chamberlain carried his 46-36 team to a game seven against the heavily-favored 60-22 Knicks, with a 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, .625 FG% series...all only four months after major knee surgery. But, yes, he choked in that series, too.

:facepalm

[Helix]

That was a bad collapse no doubt about it. He choked...

In the 2nd half of Game 7 I don't care how you feel you have to demand the ball and try to make plays for your team. He touched the ball a handful of times and took 2 shots. Then years later he had the gall to blame his teammates for missing open looks.


What a pathetic post!! Go do a little bit of research on that game, and the whole series for that matter, and then come back and give an INFORMED opinion. Unless you're a complete and utter troll like MW and DB, your opinion certainly should change. And by the way, see if you can find out what move Russell made that probably won them that series.

[LAZERUSS]

What a pathetic post!! Go do a little bit of research on that game, and the whole series for that matter, and then come back and give an INFORMED opinion. Unless you're a complete and utter troll like MW and DB, your opinion certainly should change. And by the way, see if you can find out what move Russell made that probably won them that series.

I will help him out...

Russell put Embry on the hobbled Chamberlain, and the 260 lb Embry did a very solid job against Chamberlain. Russell had pretty much been beaten to a pulp by Wilt to that point, and he "conceded" that he couldn't contain him.

Having said, though, (and I won't bother looking up his numbers before the 63-64 season), here were the Chamberlain-Embry H2H's (granted, Embry was probably not playing a lot of minutes in at least some of them)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=chambwi01&p2=embrywa01

Clearly, a prime/peak Chamberlain was just trashing ALL of his peers.

Of course, in this particular series, Wilt was playing at far less than 100%, but PLAYING none-the-less (every minute of that series.)

[CavaliersFTW]

What a pathetic post!! Go do a little bit of research on that game, and the whole series for that matter, and then come back and give an INFORMED opinion. Unless you're a complete and utter troll like MW and DB, your opinion certainly should change. And by the way, see if you can find out what move Russell made that probably won them that series.
He is a troll, masquerading as an 'old fan'.

[Helix]

I will help him out...

Russell put Embry on the hobbled Chamberlain, and the 260 lb Embry did a very solid job against Chamberlain. Russell had pretty much been beaten to a pulp by Wilt to that point, and he "conceded" that he couldn't contain him.

Having said, though, (and I won't bother looking up his numbers before the 63-64 season), here were the Chamberlain-Embry H2H's (granted, Embry was probably not playing a lot of minutes in at least some of them)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=chambwi01&p2=embrywa01

Clearly, a prime/peak Chamberlain was just trashing ALL of his peers.

Of course, in this particular series, Wilt was playing at far less than 100%, but PLAYING none-the-less (every minute of that series.)


It would have been interesting to see if he knew. Oh well. Another part of that question would be.....and what did that free Russell up to do?

I think anyone familiar with that series and those two teams knows the Sixers were easily the better team. As badly hobbled as they were, they only lost by four points in seven games. That shows just how powerful that Sixer team was. In fifty years of following the NBA they're the best team I've ever seen.

[LAZERUSS]

It would have been interesting to see if he knew. Oh well. Another part of that question would be.....and what did that free Russell up to do?

I think anyone familiar with that series and those two teams knows the Sixers were easily the better team. As badly hobbled as they were, they only lost by four points in seven games. That shows just how powerful that Sixer team was. In fifty years of following the NBA they're the best team I've ever seen.

Interesting too that these Wilt-bashers never bring up the fact that he was facing Russell in these close game seven defeats, either. Most knowledgeable "experts" tab Russell as the greatest defensive player of all-time. And he was certainly the greatest winner, as well.

But, nope...it was just Wilt "choking" away series-after-series...

[LAZERUSS]

You want choke jobs...

KAJ, Kobe, and Bird are probably the all-time leaders among the GOAT candidates...

And Hakeem couldn't even past the first round of the playoffs in over half of his 15 post-seasons. And most of those first round losses were blowouts, too.

[Psileas]

It would have been interesting to see if he knew. Oh well. Another part of that question would be.....and what did that free Russell up to do?

I think anyone familiar with that series and those two teams knows the Sixers were easily the better team. As badly hobbled as they were, they only lost by four points in seven games. That shows just how powerful that Sixer team was. In fifty years of following the NBA they're the best team I've ever seen.

I know the answer, but won't reveal it, I'll let someone like Stan Love, who remembers, ehm, "details" from all of Wilt's games.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Ah did we expect anything less? More excuses and essays trying to cover up for Wilt only winning two.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You want choke jobs...

KAJ, Kobe, and Bird are probably the all-time leaders among the GOAT candidates...

And Hakeem couldn't even past the first round of the playoffs in over half of his 15 post-seasons. And most of those first round losses were blowouts, too.
KAJ 6
Kobe 5
Bird 3

Wilt 2
Hakeem 2

Ouch

[LAZERUSS]

Ah did we expect anything less? More excuses and essays trying to cover up for Wilt only winning two.

He doesn't need "excuses."

He was the only guy capable of beating a healthy Russell-led dynasty, and in fact, nearly beat them four more times, as well. And was never outplayed by Russell in any.

And using your logic, he was at least the equal of KAJ, whom he beat 1-1 in H2H playoff series, and actually held a 3-1 edge in getting to the Finals in their four years in the league together. Hell, KAJ took his 60-22 team down in flames against the 47-35 Warriors in first round of the '73 playoffs, while Chamberlain led his 60-22 Lakers to a 4-1 series blowout of that same Warrior team. He also took his 46-36 Lakers to a game seven against the 60-22 Knicks in the '70 Finals....the same NY team that trashed KAJ's 56-26 Bucks 4-1 in the ECF's. And don't give me any stats. Obviously it is just about rings and winning.

[CavaliersFTW]

I know the answer, but won't reveal it, I'll let someone like Stan Love, who remembers, ehm, "details" from all of Wilt's games.
another of ISH's masquerade gimmicks :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

He doesn't need "excuses."

He was the only guy capable of beating a healthy Russell-led dynasty, and in fact, nearly beat them four more times, as well. And was never outplayed by Russell in any.

And using your logic, he was at least the equal of KAJ, whom he beat 1-1 in H2H playoff series, and actually held a 3-1 edge in getting to the Finals in their four years in the league together. Hell, KAJ took his 60-22 team down in flames against the 47-35 Warriors in first round of the '73 playoffs, while Chamberlain led his 60-22 Lakers to a 4-1 series blowout of that same Warrior team. He also took his 46-36 Lakers to a game seven against the 60-22 Knicks in the '70 Finals....the same NY team that trashed KAJ's Bucks 4-1 in the ECF's. And don't give me any stats. Obviously it is just about rings and winning.
He beat Russell ONE time. And he had another chance to beat him in 1969 but we know how that turned out. Bob Pettit beat Russell also and "ALMOST" like you like to put it beat him more times too. Funny how it took Kareem two seasons to match all of Wilt's winning in his first 12.

[Owl]

1968 EDF: Wilt chokes away another championship
An interesting starting point. Wilt Chamberlain was so good that whatever his team was they "owned" the NBA title and it was theirs to lose.

1968 Sixers had a 3-1 series lead over the Celtics after winning 3 games in a row. Led by Chamberlain, they managed to lose the next 3 games in a row, costing them the series and a potential repeat championship.
Odd that "1968 Sixers" collectively built up the series lead, but Wilt, who "chokes away another championship" "led them" to the losses.


Here are Wilt's stats in games 6 and 7.

1968 EDF vs Boston

Game 6 (L 106-114)

20 points
6-21 FG
8-23 FT

Game 7 (L 96-100)

14 points
4-9 FG
6-15 FT

Combined 10-30 FG and 14-38 FT in games 6 and 7.
Two disappointing performances from Chamberlain (by his standards) for sure. But rather than evaluating impact over a series, you're taking two games; rather than posting full stats for Wilt you just post shooting ones, ignoring his 34 rebounds in game seven and rather than posting those stats in context of his teammates performance (shooting substantially worse than Wilt, despite less defensive attention) you post them out of context.


From 1968-1970 Wilt Chamberlain lost 3 straight game 7s. In 1968 blowing a 3-1 series lead over the Celtics, in 1969 blowing a 2-0 and 3-2 series to Boston in the Finals, and in 1970 losing to the New York Knicks in the Finals. False, the bolded (actually bolded by yourself) is simply untrue. Even if Wilt Chamberlain were singularly responsible for deciding games himself, "he" would have to be credited with the 4-3 (Lakers) series victory over the Phoenix Suns in 1970.

edited to properly format quotes.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Wilt was a very special player truly the Lebron of his time. :applause:

[stanlove1111]

And obviously you didn't do any research on that series did you? Wilt was being treated for numerous ailments, including a strained hamstring behind his knee, a partial tear of the right calf (a similar injury that Reed suffered in the '70 Finals...and he was basically worthless after it), a bum toe, and arthritis in both knees...

.

I always get a kick out the arthritis in both knees story Wilt fans always throw out there. Here is a guy who was running marathons in his 50s but his knees were so shot at 30 years that he could barely play basketball anymore. He didn't feel the need to wear braces on his shot knees from 71-73 either...Good stuff. That's right up there with the story that he never recovered from the 1969-70 injury. They love to add to these things to add to the Wilt legend.

[LAZERUSS]

I always get a kick out the arthritis in both knees story Wilt fans always throw out there. Here is a guy who was running marathons in his 50s but his knees were so shot at 30 years that he could barely play basketball anymore. He didn't feel the need to wear braces on his shot knees from 71-73 either...Good stuff. That's right up there with the story that he never recovered from the 1969-70 injury. They love to add to these things to add to the Wilt legend.

Here again just unresearched opinions...

Wilt, himself, claimed to have felt MUCH better in his 71-72 season, than he had in his 70-71 (and obviously his post-surgery 69-70 season.) Of course, one only need watch game seven of the '70 Finals, and game five of the '72 Finals, both of which are on YouTube, to see it for yourself.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wilt was a very special player truly the Lebron of his time. :applause:
:applause:

[dankok8]

And obviously you didn't do any research on that series did you? Wilt was being treated for numerous ailments, including a strained hamstring behind his knee, a partial tear of the right calf (a similar injury that Reed suffered in the '70 Finals...and he was basically worthless after it), a bum toe, and arthritis in both knees...all of which had him NOTICEABLY LIMPING in that series. In fact, Russell commented later that a "Lessor man would not have played"...which of course meant, NO ONE else would have been playing.

Of course, your boy Kareem missed CHUNKS of two different seasons with a broken hand, and yet Chamberlain dominated game five of the '72 Finals with one hand badly sprained, and the other FRACTURED. Oh, and Kareem missed the clinching game six of the '80 Finals with a sprained ankle. Unfortunately for Wilt, he didn't have a Magic to lead his teams in his absence.

As for the comment that he touched the ball a handful of times in game seven was absolutely correct. During the course of the regular season the ball would go into Chamberlain about 15 times per quarter. In the second half of game seven, he TOUCHED the ball on the offensive end SEVEN times, and only twice in the 4th quarter, and both of those were offensive rebounds.

It was not up to Wilt to demand the ball, either. As great a coach as Hannum was, he blew it. I found it interesting that in an early season game in '67, against Thurmond, in a first half in which Chamberlain took a couple of shots, Hannum asked his teammates to go into Wilt in the second half. The result? Chamberlain torched a helpless Nate for 24 second half points, en route to yet another triple double. And yet, in their biggest game of the '68 season, he didn't say a word. And again, had Chamberlain demanded the ball, can you imagine the backlash he would have received? The man was undeservedly labeled as selfish early in his career. And in '68 he had led the league in assists. Had he suddenly started throwing up shots, the media would have had a field day.

The bottom line...Wilt couldn't score without the ball. The fact that he only TOUCHED the ball a total of seven times in the second half is all you need to know.

BTW, while Wilt went 4-9 from the floor in that game, his teammates had these stat lines, Greer 8-25 from the field; Wali Jones (who was also playing injured) 8-22; Walker, 8-22; Jackson (also playing injured) 7-17; and Guokas, 2-10. Oh, and Chamberlain, as always, led everyone in rebounding, with 34.

And, for the series, a hobbled Chamberlain, even with those two poor games in six and seven, still averaged 22 ppg, 25 rpg, 7 apg, and shot .487 from the field (one of only two times in his eight post-season series against Russell in which he shot less than .500 BTW...and in a post-season NBA that still only shot .446.)

Furthermore, the Sixers were without HOFer Billy Cunningham that entire series. Factor in that in game five, and leading the series 3-1, and only trailing by two points at the time, both Wali Jones and Luke Jackson suffered leg injuries, and were basically worthless the last two games, as well as Chamberlain playing with his assorted injuries, and it was actually quite amazing that the Sixers only lost a game seven by four points.

Clearly, had the Sixers been healthy in that post-season, and it would have been a repeat of the '67 EDF's, when they destroyed the Celtics, 4-1.

But again, that was Wilt "the Choker" for you. Only Chamberlain would get ripped in a series in which he averaged 22 ppg, led both teams in rebounding and assists, and still easily outplayed Russell in every facet of the game. A Wilt who PLAYED every minute of that series with multiple injuries.

Wilt shot a combined 10-30 (33.3%) from the field and 14-38 (36.8%) from the line in the last 2 games. Bill Russell definitely outplayed Wilt in those final two games and played him at least to a draw in Game 2 and Game 4.

Cunningham's injury is kind of inconsequential because the Sixers took a 3-1 lead without him. The Sixers including Wilt did suffer injuries but Wilt was capable of playing better. How about Game 1 and 5 where he was pretty good? He just dropped the ball in those last two games man. And yes I agree it's not all Wilt 'choking' Russell was also amazingly good.


I will help him out...

Russell put Embry on the hobbled Chamberlain, and the 260 lb Embry did a very solid job against Chamberlain. Russell had pretty much been beaten to a pulp by Wilt to that point, and he "conceded" that he couldn't contain him.

Having said, though, (and I won't bother looking up his numbers before the 63-64 season), here were the Chamberlain-Embry H2H's (granted, Embry was probably not playing a lot of minutes in at least some of them)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=embrywa01

Clearly, a prime/peak Chamberlain was just trashing ALL of his peers.

Of course, in this particular series, Wilt was playing at far less than 100%, but PLAYING none-the-less (every minute of that series.)

The reason Wayne Embry was defending Wilt was so that Russell could defend Chet Walker who was killing the Celtics. See below.

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/printmember/rus0int-1


Was this the 1968 series?

Bill Russell: 1968.

They had gotten up three to one. And the next three games, two of them would be in Philadelphia. So everybody says, "They can't win three games in a row," and I told my team, I says, "We don't have to win three games in a row. We just got to win the next one, then we worry about the next one. If we talk about winning three games, well, that's got nothing to do with anything. All we got to do is win the next one." So we get down to the last game, and we've gotten a two point lead and this is no three point shots, okay? So they fouled me deliberately because I'm the worst free throw shooter on the floor. And I just got to make one free throw and it's over because it's like eight or nine seconds to go in the game. So I get up and I shoot the first one, I clank it. I missed the hell out of it. So I'm sitting there getting ready to shoot the next one. Sam Jones walks up to me and says something to me, then walks away. I shoot, I make the free throw, we win the game. So everybody says, "What did Sam say? Did he tell you how important, how big a shot this was?" No. All Sam said to me was, "Do you know why you missed that free throw?" Why? "You did not flex your knees on the shot. When you flex your knees you're a good free throw shooter. When you don't flex your knees you don't shoot good. So just flex your knees and don't worry about it." Now that's the kind of guy Sam was. On his shots, everything was programmed, so he was not thinking about the importance of the shot, all he was thinking about was how to make the shot.

Before we leave 1968 altogether, can we talk about game seven for a minute? In 1968 you limited your friend Wilt Chamberlain to two shot attempts in the entire second half of game seven.

Bill Russell: That's not true at all. That was a coach's decision. I was the coach, okay? There was an adjustment we had to make.

There was a forward on their team named Chet Walker, and he was hurting us badly, okay? So I had my backup center, it was a guy named Wayne Embry. Now Embry had been in the league seven or eight years, and he played against Wilt all those years. So at half time I said to him, "Wayne, I'm going to try something. It's not new. I want you to guard Wilt. Okay? I have to take care of Chet Walker." And see, when I made that substitution everybody thought it was trying to stay out of foul trouble, something like that, which was to me the best part of that because I made adjustments that they didn't know what I was doing. So they couldn't make a counter adjustment. You see if you make an adjustment, and they know what you're doing, well they can just counter it. But I made an adjustment, they thought it was to get off of Wilt. They didn't know it was to get on Chet. Now Wilt had a game plan, but his game plan was counting on me trying to guard him. When we put Wayne on him, he guarded him a completely different way.

He was used to you guarding him.

Bill Russell: Yes. To me, the pretty part of it was -- I hate to use the word beauty -- is that Wayne had enormous experience guarding him. So it wasn't like you took some guy out of the stands and put him on Wilt. Here's a guy who's been guarding him for years. That adjustment was for Chet Walker, it wasn't for Wilt.

[stanlove1111]

Here again just unresearched opinions...

Wilt, himself, claimed to have felt MUCH better in his 71-72 season, than he had in his 70-71 (and obviously his post-surgery 69-70 season.) Of course, one only need watch game seven of the '70 Finals, and game five of the '72 Finals, both of which are on YouTube, to see it for yourself.


Nothing you posted there has anything to do with what I posted. Read post again.

[Owl]

Wilt shot a combined 10-30 (33.3%) from the field and 14-38 (36.8%) from the line in the last 2 games. Bill Russell definitely outplayed Wilt in those final two games and played him at least to a draw in Game 2 and Game 4.

Cunningham's injury is kind of inconsequential because the Sixers took a 3-1 lead without him. The Sixers including Wilt did suffer injuries but Wilt was capable of playing better. How about Game 1 and 5 where he was pretty good? He just dropped the ball in those last two games man. And yes I agree it's not all Wilt 'choking' Russell was also amazingly good.
Can you explain the link between the Sixers taking a 3-1 lead and Cunningham's absence being unimportant. I don't see it.

With Cunningham the 76ers went 62-20 posting a 7.96 SRS (Boston were 54-28 and 3.87). At with both sides at full strength (this primarily means Cunningham though obviously the 76ers had other injury worries, Boston missed Sanders in game 7) the Warriors would have to be clear cut favourites. That Philly came close is to their credit but I don't see how a 3-1 margin at one point makes Wilt bad.

[dankok8]

Can you explain the link between the Sixers taking a 3-1 lead and Cunningham's absence being unimportant. I don't see it.

With Cunningham the 76ers went 62-20 posting a 7.96 SRS (Boston were 54-28 and 3.87). At with both sides at full strength (this primarily means Cunningham though obviously the 76ers had other injury worries, Boston missed Sanders in game 7) the Warriors would have to be clear cut favourites. That Philly came close is to their credit but I don't see how a 3-1 margin at one point makes Wilt bad.

Not winning after a 3-1 deficit is considered a choke in itself. If one is a truly great player like Wilt was he must have to find a way to close it out somehow. They were one win away from a repeat championship and Wilt didn't show much the fire and killer instinct! I criticize him for playing poorly in Game 6 and 7. Dare I say being unassertive like Lebron in 2011 Finals!

No doubt they would have a better chance with a healthy Cunningham but being up 3-1 at some points suggests they COULD have won without him.

[LAZERUSS]

Not winning after a 3-1 deficit is considered a choke in itself. If one is a truly great player like Wilt was he must have to find a way to close it out somehow. They were one win away from a repeat championship and Wilt didn't show much the fire and killer instinct! I criticize him for playing poorly in Game 6 and 7. Dare I say being unassertive like Lebron in 2011 Finals!

No doubt they would have a better chance with a healthy Cunningham but being up 3-1 at some points suggests they COULD have won without him.

Of course, the Wilt that lacked a killer instinct after their 3-1 series lead, just annihilated Russell in game five, with a 28 point, 11-21 shooting, 30 rebound, 7 assist game, while Russell was ducking for cover with his meager 8 point, 4-10 shooting, 4 assist, 24 rebound game.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Can you explain the link between the Sixers taking a 3-1 lead and Cunningham's absence being unimportant. I don't see it.

With Cunningham the 76ers went 62-20 posting a 7.96 SRS (Boston were 54-28 and 3.87). At with both sides at full strength (this primarily means Cunningham though obviously the 76ers had other injury worries, Boston missed Sanders in game 7) the Warriors would have to be clear cut favourites. That Philly came close is to their credit but I don't see how a 3-1 margin at one point makes Wilt bad.
Wait you're telling me that he not only had a 3-1 series lead, but also home court advantage?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Of course, the Wilt that lacked a killer instinct after their 3-1 series lead, just annihilated Russell in game five, with a 28 point, 11-21 shooting, 30 rebound, 7 assist game, while Russell was ducking for cover with his meager 8 point, 4-10 shooting, 4 assist, 24 rebound game.
Then Games 6 and 7 happened and the great Bill Russell went on to win his 10th championship.

[LAZERUSS]

Then Games 6 and 7 happened and the great Bill Russell went on to win his 10th championship.

That's the real issue here. Chamberlain could maul Russell in every facet of the game, but if his teammates were horribly outmatched, as was most often the case, Russell's teams could still win. But, if Wilt was even slightly outplayed by Russell, in the very few contests in which that happened, Chamberlain's teams had no chance.

[Owl]

Not winning after a 3-1 deficit is considered a choke in itself. If one is a truly great player like Wilt was he must have to find a way to close it out somehow. They were one win away from a repeat championship and Wilt didn't show much the fire and killer instinct! I criticize him for playing poorly in Game 6 and 7. Dare I say being unassertive like Lebron in 2011 Finals!

No doubt they would have a better chance with a healthy Cunningham but being up 3-1 at some points suggests they COULD have won without him.
Okay so lets get this straight

1) Wilt/those '68 Sixers that were healthy enough to play are being penalised for being 3-1 up. A sweep, or the the same outcome in a different order would be preferable?

2) You think they were one win away from a repeat? This was the conference finals. LA played well that year and represented a serious threat.

3) Yes, they "could" have won without Cunningham, any seven game series "could" have gone the other way. But you assert that Cunningham's absence is "kind of inconsequential", I suggest it was far from that. I would contend that it was highly influential in the outcome of the series.

4) It's hard to assert yourself without recieving the ball. You could blame Wilt at the margins for a lack of touches but primary responsibilty has to go to the exterior players who failed to either get the ball to Wilt (Wilt got the ball in the post just 7 times in the 2nd half) or make their shots, and Hannum who called the plays. It's not like Embry was fronting Wilt. So either the guards (and other exterior players to a lesser degree) were colossaly stupid and chose not to pass to an available Chamberlain (unlikely) or as Wilt recalled it, they sagged on Wilt and denied him the ball, the guards got what they thought were good shots, took them and missed them (Greer 8-25, Jones 8-22, Goukas 2-10, combined 18-57, with Walker also shooting poorly, but more explicably so with Russell covering him).

[dankok8]

Okay so lets get this straight

1) Wilt/those '68 Sixers that were healthy enough to play are being penalised for being 3-1 up. A sweep, or the the same outcome in a different order would be preferable?

2) You think they were one win away from a repeat? This was the conference finals. LA played well that year and represented a serious threat.

3) Yes, they "could" have won without Cunningham, any seven game series "could" have gone the other way. But you assert that Cunningham's absence is "kind of inconsequential", I suggest it was far from that. I would contend that it was highly influential in the outcome of the series.

4) It's hard to assert yourself without recieving the ball. You could blame Wilt at the margins for a lack of touches but primary responsibilty has to go to the exterior players who failed to either get the ball to Wilt (Wilt got the ball in the post just 7 times in the 2nd half) or make their shots, and Hannum who called the plays. It's not like Embry was fronting Wilt. So either the guards (and other exterior players to a lesser degree) were colossaly stupid and chose not to pass to an available Chamberlain (unlikely) or as Wilt recalled it, they sagged on Wilt and denied him the ball, the guards got what they thought were good shots, took them and missed them (Greer 8-25, Jones 8-22, Goukas 2-10, combined 18-57, with Walker also shooting poorly, but more explicably so with Russell covering him).

1) No you're right... a loss is a loss but when you can win 3 games without someone it seems reasonable that you can win 4...

2) LA was unlikely to beat Philly. Their C position was so weak that Russell also posted huge offensive series on them. Wilt would maul them!

3) I agree. Maybe the way I said it it came off wrong. With a healthy Billy C Philly would have had a better chance. I'm just saying they could have won without him... all indications point to that.

4) If you're Wilt you have to demand the ball. Plus what about 6-21 shooting in Game 6? He "choked" two games in a row. It's easy to blame his teammates for missing shots. That's a cop out.



I also want to illuminate the other side of the equation concerning the state of the Celtics... Satch Sanders was suffering through injuries for Boston and DNP in Game 6 and 7. He was their best forward defender and him being out probably also forced the whole Russell-Embry scramble and putting Wayne on Wilt. Someone had to cover Chet Walker as I posted in the article above.

Sam Jones also had lingering injuries and performed far below the level of his earlier golden years.

And it baffles me how Russell gets virtually no credit from anyone for not just playing but COACHING his team at the same time!

[LAZERUSS]

Okay so lets get this straight

1) Wilt/those '68 Sixers that were healthy enough to play are being penalised for being 3-1 up. A sweep, or the the same outcome in a different order would be preferable?

2) You think they were one win away from a repeat? This was the conference finals. LA played well that year and represented a serious threat.

3) Yes, they "could" have won without Cunningham, any seven game series "could" have gone the other way. But you assert that Cunningham's absence is "kind of inconsequential", I suggest it was far from that. I would contend that it was highly influential in the outcome of the series.

4) It's hard to assert yourself without recieving the ball. You could blame Wilt at the margins for a lack of touches but primary responsibilty has to go to the exterior players who failed to either get the ball to Wilt (Wilt got the ball in the post just 7 times in the 2nd half) or make their shots, and Hannum who called the plays. It's not like Embry was fronting Wilt. So either the guards (and other exterior players to a lesser degree) were colossaly stupid and chose not to pass to an available Chamberlain (unlikely) or as Wilt recalled it, they sagged on Wilt and denied him the ball, the guards got what they thought were good shots, took them and missed them (Greer 8-25, Jones 8-22, Goukas 2-10, combined 18-57, with Walker also shooting poorly, but more explicably so with Russell covering him).

Cunningham's loss was huge. The '68 Sixers were not a deep team. And then when Jackson was injured in game five, their once overwhelming edge on the front line was gone.

And, of course, Chamberlain was nowhere near 100% in that post-season, either.

[La Frescobaldi]

Not winning after a 3-1 deficit is considered a choke in itself. If one is a truly great player like Wilt was he must have to find a way to close it out somehow. They were one win away from a repeat championship and Wilt didn't show much the fire and killer instinct! I criticize him for playing poorly in Game 6 and 7. Dare I say being unassertive like Lebron in 2011 Finals!

No doubt they would have a better chance with a healthy Cunningham but being up 3-1 at some points suggests they COULD have won without him.

Totally revisionist and based on knowing literally nothing about that series.
Anybody that sat bleachers in those playoffs and saw what happened to the Sixers knows that you have no clue what you are talking about.

You leave out the critical facts of Wali Jones & Luke Jackson going down with hamstrings during the EDF, and the fact that Hal Greer had a pull too. If you had seen Hal Greer bouncing down the court on one leg, desperately trying to keep up, you would never say such things.

In '68 Chamberlain was at his best - better than the season before. He had a terrific confidence around him. But no team wins a playoff series with serious injuries to 4 starters and their 6th man out. That was one of the saddest playoffs in history, watching the Sixers explode with injuries, one after the other. You didn't see the grimace on Wilt's face while he was playing. It's ludicrous to call that a choke job.

We expect it from Deuce, who already knows the facts & just makes threads to rile up lazerus. You should know better.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Funny thing is that the '68 Lakers made it to the NBA Finals with ease and lost in 6. '69 Lakers get Wilt Chamberlain...Easy championship right? Wrong. Lose in the NBA Finals. It's as if he didn't make an impact at all. And his former Sixers win 55 games without him and lose to the Celtics in the playoffs.

[La Frescobaldi]

Funny thing is that the '68 Lakers made it to the NBA Finals with ease and lost in 6. '69 Lakers get Wilt Chamberlain...Easy championship right? Wrong. Lose in the NBA Finals. It's as if he didn't make an impact at all. And his former Sixers win 55 games without him and lose to the Celtics in the playoffs.

The Warriors lost Rick Barry to the ABA and lost Nate Thurmond to injury - he missed the playoffs. The result could have well been different if those two guys had played the Western Finals for San Fran that year. The Warriors had been to the Finals in '67. As it was, you are right the Lakers got to the Finals with ease - playing in an easy conference like the West was that season.

[LAZERUSS]

Funny thing is that the '68 Lakers made it to the NBA Finals with ease and lost in 6. '69 Lakers get Wilt Chamberlain...Easy championship right? Wrong. Lose in the NBA Finals. It's as if he didn't make an impact at all. And his 76ers win 55 games without him and lose to the Celtics in the playoffs.

Not again Duece...

The Lakers traded THREE players to get Wilt. Two them were All-Star Archie Clark, who averaged 20 ppg in '68, and journeyman center Darrell Imhoff, who averaged a 10-13. Collectively, that was 29.2 ppg and 15.3 rpg. Oh, and those two would collectively average 36 ppg, 20 rpg, and shoot .510 in the first round of the playoffs, when their 55-27 Sixer team was wiped out by the 48-34 Celtics, 4-1. How come an injured Chamberlain could single-handedly carry the '68 Sixers, decimated by injuries, to a game seven against the Celtics (and just the year before that, take a 68-13 team to a dominating world title)?

But it gets better. The Lakers also lost future HOFer Gail Goodrich in the expansion draft (and BTW, Goodrich was THE gem of that draft), and his 13 ppg. And they basically replaced him with Johnny Egan, who did nothing.

So, here was Chamberlain having to replace 42 ppg and 18 rpg on the '69 Lakers, and he STILL led them to a then, best-ever record of 55-27.

BTW, how good were Goodrich and Clark in '68? Jerry West would miss 31 games that season, and LA went 19-12 in them without him. Oh, and he would also miss 21 games in '69, and LA managed to go 12-9 without him in those, as well.

Incidently, the Lakers were leading the Celtics in the '69 Finals, 2-1, and had the ball with only a few seconds left. Did the brilliant Van Breda Kolff put the ball in West's hands at that point? Nope, he let EGAN handle it, and you guessed it, he was stripped, and then Sam Jones, while falling down, hit the game winning shot (one of TWO miraculous game-winning shots by Boston players in that series.) Had Egan not blown that game, and the Lakers win that game four to go up 3-1. They then solidly beat Boston in game five. So, Egan's gaffe essentially cost the Lakers a 4-1 series win.

As for the REST of that trade...

Chamberlain would lead LA to four Finals in his five seasons in LA, including their first ever title in Los Angeles, with a dominating 69-13 team. Meanwhile, the Sixers would get progressively worse, and by Chamberlain's last season, they had become the laughingstock of the NBA, going 9-73.

Oh, in Wilt's last season, he led LA to a 60-22 record, and yet another trip to the Finals. He "retired" after that season, and the Lakers immediately plummetted to a 47-35 record, and were blown away in the first round of the playoffs. The next year they fell to 30-52. They then acquired Kareem, but wouldn't sniff a title until Magic arrived in 1980, when he would carry them to their first Finals since Wilt's retirement.

[millwad]

You want choke jobs...



And Hakeem couldn't even past the first round of the playoffs in over half of his 15 post-seasons. And most of those first round losses were blowouts, too.

How is that a choke job? You blame Wilt's HOF teammates all the time but suddenly when it comes to Hakeem you claim that the likes of Buck Johnson were GOAT type of players who deserved rings but Hakeem choked it away.

You're a clown.

[millwad]

Here again just unresearched opinions...

Wilt, himself, claimed to have felt MUCH better in his 71-72 season, than he had in his 70-71 (and obviously his post-surgery 69-70 season.) Of course, one only need watch game seven of the '70 Finals, and game five of the '72 Finals, both of which are on YouTube, to see it for yourself.

You're a clown, enough with the bogus about Wilt being crazy hurt. The man played 47 minutes per game in the playoffs that year, a player who is busted up and crazy injured like you claim that Wilt was wouldn't be able to do something like that. You're a fraud.

[dankok8]

Totally revisionist and based on knowing literally nothing about that series.
Anybody that sat bleachers in those playoffs and saw what happened to the Sixers knows that you have no clue what you are talking about.

You leave out the critical facts of Wali Jones & Luke Jackson going down with hamstrings during the EDF, and the fact that Hal Greer had a pull too. If you had seen Hal Greer bouncing down the court on one leg, desperately trying to keep up, you would never say such things.

In '68 Chamberlain was at his best - better than the season before. He had a terrific confidence around him. But no team wins a playoff series with serious injuries to 4 starters and their 6th man out. That was one of the saddest playoffs in history, watching the Sixers explode with injuries, one after the other. You didn't see the grimace on Wilt's face while he was playing. It's ludicrous to call that a choke job.

We expect it from Deuce, who already knows the facts & just makes threads to rile up lazerus. You should know better.

Actually I do have a clue. I know all the info you posted and I'm the only one who posted about the Celtics' injuries in the series too just to keep things fair. And generally I give Russell credit more than rip on Wilt.

I'm aware Sixers were cut down by injuries but it was still on Wilt to perform better in the last 2 games. Greer dropped 40 in Game 6 all in vain. Wilt's 33% shooting from the field, 37% from the line, and generally playing passive and not demanding the ball constitutes a choke. Now the cause of it... it may well have been his injury flaring up but he still underperformed whatever the reason. From his own accounts he seems to blame his teammates for missing shots off of his passes.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Actually I do have a clue. I know all the info you posted and I'm the only one who posted about the Celtics' injuries in the series too just to keep things fair. And generally I give Russell credit more than rip on Wilt.

I'm aware Sixers were cut down by injuries but it was still on Wilt to perform better in the last 2 games. Greer dropped 40 in Game 6 all in vain. Wilt's 33% shooting from the field, 37% from the line, and generally playing passive and not demanding the ball constitutes a choke. Now the cause of it... it may well have been his injury flaring up but he still underperformed whatever the reason. From his own accounts he seems to blame his teammates for missing shots off of his passes.
:eek:

3-1 series lead and a teammate drops 40 for you in game 6...

[Owl]

The Warriors lost Rick Barry to the ABA and lost Nate Thurmond to injury - he missed the playoffs. The result could have well been different if those two guys had played the Western Finals for San Fran that year. The Warriors had been to the Finals in '67. As it was, you are right the Lakers got to the Finals with ease - playing in an easy conference like the West was that season.
TBF the Lakers were good that year. If Deuce's point, if he has one beyond seeking a reaction, is that the Lakers didn't improve as much as you would expect a team adding Wilt Chamberlain to, it's accurate (though Philly's SRS fell from 7.96 to 4.79 despite recieving All-Star guard Archie Clark and comptent defensive minded center Darrall Imhoff; and rather than a close series, lost whilst wracked with injuries, Philly lost to Boston in 5 games with an average 10.4 points per game differential).

The reasons the Lakers didn't improve as much as expected, and were less than the sum of their parts are out there for anyone to find (and indeed have been discussed on this forum a fair bit). It's hardly all on Wilt.

[Owl]

Actually I do have a clue. I know all the info you posted and I'm the only one who posted about the Celtics' injuries in the series too just to keep things fair. And generally I give Russell credit more than rip on Wilt.

I'm aware Sixers were cut down by injuries but it was still on Wilt to perform better in the last 2 games. Greer dropped 40 in Game 6 all in vain. Wilt's 33% shooting from the field, 37% from the line, and generally playing passive and not demanding the ball constitutes a choke. Now the cause of it... it may well have been his injury flaring up but he still underperformed whatever the reason. From his own accounts he seems to blame his teammates for missing shots off of his passes.
Really?

Can you explain the link between the Sixers taking a 3-1 lead and Cunningham's absence being unimportant. I don't see it.

With Cunningham the 76ers went 62-20 posting a 7.96 SRS (Boston were 54-28 and 3.87). At with both sides at full strength (this primarily means Cunningham though obviously the 76ers had other injury worries, Boston missed Sanders in game 7) the Warriors would have to be clear cut favourites. That Philly came close is to their credit but I don't see how a 3-1 margin at one point makes Wilt bad.

[dankok8]

Really?

Sorry I must have missed it. You and I then! :cheers:

Anyways I feel Wilt should have played better. I hate to use the term choked but he way underperformed in the last 2 games.

[Owl]

Actually I do have a clue. I know all the info you posted and I'm the only one who posted about the Celtics' injuries in the series too just to keep things fair. And generally I give Russell credit more than rip on Wilt.

I'm aware Sixers were cut down by injuries but it was still on Wilt to perform better in the last 2 games. Greer dropped 40 in Game 6 all in vain. Wilt's 33% shooting from the field, 37% from the line, and generally playing passive and not demanding the ball constitutes a choke. Now the cause of it... it may well have been his injury flaring up but he still underperformed whatever the reason. From his own accounts he seems to blame his teammates for missing shots off of his passes.

:eek:

3-1 series lead and a teammate drops 40 for you the next game...
3+1=4. 4 games have been played. And the next game is ... game 6?

If Greer had such a game in tendem with Wilt's strong game 5 (already discussed in this thread), well they still might not have won as despite a strong outing from Wilt the 76ers were beaten decisively (which only confirms that the Sixers held together by duct tape at that point), but they would have had a chance.

[Deuce Bigalow]

3+1=4. 4 games have been played. And the next game is ... game 6?

If Greer had such a game in tendem with Wilt's strong game 5 (already discussed in this thread), well they still might not have won as despite a strong outing from Wilt the 76ers were beaten decisively (which only confirms that the Sixers held together by duct tape at that point), but they would have had a chance.
Meant game 6. You're up 3-2 and your teammate drops 40. How rare is that? And not only does he lose, but he shoots 6-21 from the field and 8-22 from the line. And of course you Wilt fans find "something" as an excuse. Wilt never did wrong in your guy's minds. Let me guess, 1969 wasn't his fault either huh? If Wilt didn't perform the ultimate choke job and gave Greer some help then its a trip to the Finals.

[La Frescobaldi]

Actually I do have a clue. I know all the info you posted and I'm the only one who posted about the Celtics' injuries in the series too just to keep things fair. And generally I give Russell credit more than rip on Wilt.

I'm aware Sixers were cut down by injuries but it was still on Wilt to perform better in the last 2 games. Greer dropped 40 in Game 6 all in vain. Wilt's 33% shooting from the field, 37% from the line, and generally playing passive and not demanding the ball constitutes a choke. Now the cause of it... it may well have been his injury flaring up but he still underperformed whatever the reason. From his own accounts he seems to blame his teammates for missing shots off of his passes.

1. Try taking some jumpers - or even some set shots, for that matter - with a hamstring pull.
2. Chamberlain could call for the ball all he wanted. If it doesn't go in the paint, it doesn't go in the paint. Again, that was largely due to injuries. Guys that can't move past their defender, can't pass.

3. The Sixers entire game strategy with Alex Hannum was based on the triangle offense. Guys can't cut through the paint nor slash with hamstring pulls.

It really is that simple.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Updated the OP.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I like how the OP always brings up Wilt's FT shooting, and yet never brings up Kobe's post-season FG%'s.

In fact, Kobe was so awful, his team's were seldom even in the big games that they lost. A case could be made that no other GOAT candidate was ever involved in so many closeout blowouts. He was routinely losing closeout games by 20+ points, and in fact had 30 and 39 point losses in closeout games. And he was also involved in a blowing a 24 point lead in a critical game in the 2008 Finals (and again, his team lost the closeout game by 39 points.) Furthermore, while the OP rips Wilt for his scoring decline, what happened to Kobe in his biggest post-season game, in his highest scoring season? He was WAY below his scoring norm, and his team blew a 3-1 series lead in that series too.

The fact was, Kobe shot worse in nearly every post-season in which he played than in his regular seasons. He then shot even worse in his all but one of his seven Finals, and in many, much worse. And, then he shot even worse in the closeout games of those Finals, even in wins.

Kobe in his Finals...
:roll: What does Kobe have to do with this thread? I'm seeing this more and more from you. It's like you admit Wilt choked since you like to randomly bring up Kobe, KAJ, Hakeem, or Bird for some reason. Deflection is one of the worst ways to respond.

You want choke jobs...

KAJ, Kobe, and Bird are probably the all-time leaders among the GOAT candidates...

And Hakeem couldn't even past the first round of the playoffs in over half of his 15 post-seasons. And most of those first round losses were blowouts, too.
"You want choke jobs?" Congratulations that you finally admitted Wilt has choke jobs :applause:

[julizaver]

Updated the OP.

I have created a thread Wilt Chamberlain vs Bill Russell 1968 EDF stats with all the numbers (not cherry picking stats) from all the games:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268252

and there are 2 replies (myself included).

A troll created a thread 1968 EDF: Wilt chokes away another championship without any valuable info and there are 51 posts.

Anyway this is how the world is nowadays ...
:facepalm

:lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

I have created a thread Wilt Chamberlain vs Bill Russell 1968 EDF stats with all the numbers (not cherry picking stats) from all the games:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268252

and there are 2 replies (myself included).

A troll created a thread 1968 EDF: Wilt chokes away another championship without any valuable info and there are 51 posts.

Anyway this is how the world is nowadays ...
:facepalm

:lol
Did Wilt choke in your opinion?

[LAZERUSS]

Updated the OP.

Not quite though Duece...

You forgot some FG%'s by Wilt's teammates in that game seven. Probably by accident.

But here they are...and keep in mind that Philly lost that 7th game by four points...

Greer 8-25
Walker 8-22
Jones 8-22
Jackson 7-17
Guokas 2-10

Of course, we actually a have much more in-depth study of this series by someone who was far more knowledgable...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268252

[ClipperRevival]

Totally revisionist and based on knowing literally nothing about that series.
Anybody that sat bleachers in those playoffs and saw what happened to the Sixers knows that you have no clue what you are talking about.

You leave out the critical facts of Wali Jones & Luke Jackson going down with hamstrings during the EDF, and the fact that Hal Greer had a pull too. If you had seen Hal Greer bouncing down the court on one leg, desperately trying to keep up, you would never say such things.

In '68 Chamberlain was at his best - better than the season before. He had a terrific confidence around him. But no team wins a playoff series with serious injuries to 4 starters and their 6th man out. That was one of the saddest playoffs in history, watching the Sixers explode with injuries, one after the other. You didn't see the grimace on Wilt's face while he was playing. It's ludicrous to call that a choke job.

We expect it from Deuce, who already knows the facts & just makes threads to rile up lazerus. You should know better.

Yet Greer exploded for 40 points in game 6 while Wilt scored 20 and shot 8/22 (37%) from the FT line. If Greer gets more help from the supposed GOAT, they probably close it out that game. Wilt was absolutely horrendous from FT line this series, especially the last 2 games. That fals on no one but himself.

[ClipperRevival]

1. Try taking some jumpers - or even some set shots, for that matter - with a hamstring pull.
2. Chamberlain could call for the ball all he wanted. If it doesn't go in the paint, it doesn't go in the paint. Again, that was largely due to injuries. Guys that can't move past their defender, can't pass.

3. The Sixers entire game strategy with Alex Hannum was based on the triangle offense. Guys can't cut through the paint nor slash with hamstring pulls.

It really is that simple.

If you are the GOAT and you are in a game 7 playing for elimination, you demand the ball. And it's not like game 7 was Wilt's only questionable playoff moment/game. If that were the case, we might be able to blame his teammates for not getting him the ball. His game 7 "injury" in 1969 and just terrible game and series. He had a gimp Reed in game 7 in 1970 but played passive. And he had went for 45 points in game 6, which meant he was clearly capable of great thing but didn't go after it like a killer like MJ or Russell would.

[ClipperRevival]

The injury excuses in 1968 is somewhat valid because Cunningham was out that series but they still had their two best players outside of Wilt in Greer and Walker relatively healthy. No team is 100% healthy come playoff time. When your three best players can go and you are up 3-1 and lose 3 straight, including game 7 at home, and your best player underperforms in games 6 and 7, shouldn't a good chunk of the blame fall on your star? It's one thing if your star plays above his standards and loses but that wasn't the case for Wilt. Call it choke or underperform but he simply didn't get it done in those 2 games and he must be held accountable.

[LAZERUSS]

If you are the GOAT and you are in a game 7 playing for elimination, you demand the ball. And it's not like game 7 was Wilt's only questionable playoff moment/game. If that were the case, we might be able to blame his teammates for not getting him the ball. His game 7 "injury" in 1969 and just terrible game and series. He had a gimp Reed in game 7 in 1970 but played passive. And he had went for 45 points in game 6, which meant he was clearly capable of great thing but didn't go after it like a killer like MJ or Russell would.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I see you have been TRYING to find more garbage again. Here you are, once again, digging up a topic from nearly two years ago...that has been TRASHED so MANY times...

but here we go again...

How healthy was Wilt and his Sixers in that game seven of the '68 EDF's...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14


DELAWARE COUNTY - April 4, 1968

There they are—the Philadelphia 76ers. See them gulp pills. Notice their bandages. Watch how they limp. Look at how they struggle.

They are sick and battered invalids. Pain and fatigue stagger hand in hand. They do not belong on a basketball court, they belong in wheelchairs.

There are only eight of them left now, and seven are ailing. They're wearing so much tape -they look like mummies in short pants. Do you wonder how they keep playing? Or why?

* * *

The 76ers will return to their rightful place at the Spectrum Friday night to meet the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Division finals.

From a New York viewpoint, the older 76ers should not have beaten the youthful, deep Knicks in the semifinals. After, the Knicks evened the series at 2-2, New York newspapers had buried the 76ers. The act seemed to b e contagious.

Loyalists in Philadelphia started believing it, too. But it was mostly the New York press. And when the 76ers resisted the early burial last Sunday, the New York press became cranky.

The sour grapes began to spill. A sportswriter who is one of the very biggest in New York City characterized the mood when he spent a greater part of the afternoon last Sunday complaining loudly and bitterly about the location of the TV cameras during foul shots. As a result, several heated arguments between TV and NBA officials and the writer developed along the sidelines.

It was exemplary of the New York mood, which was soon compounded by the 76ers' demoralizing 123-105 victory.

* * *

The turning point of the series was Sunday. The Knicks, feeling they could take advantage of the 76ers' badly battered and undermanned squad, suffered a psychological breakdown after the battered and undermanned 76ers destroyed them in the fifth game.

Then in the third game in three days Monday — an incredible piece of scheduling by the NBA—the 76ers administered the coupe de grace as the Knicks fell apartafter blowing a big early lead.

Winning the rough, bruising series with a team riddled by injuries and its bench practically stripped may — under the circumstances — be one of the most remarkable feats in NBA history.

* * *

A TEAM playing under these conditions should not be expected to survive such a series. Have you ever tried driving a car on three wheels?"

But the fact that the 76ers did win was a glowing tribute to the sheer determination and dedication of a proud team; one whose supreme pride shunned defeat in the face of most dire circumstances.

You had to be there to appreciate it . . . the way Hal Greer and Wally Jones ran and shot on battered knees; the way Wilt Chamberlain played the middle with a volcano in his stomach and an injured toe shot full of needles; the way Johnny Green kept hustling although long past the point of exhaustion; the way Luke Jackson, Chet Walker and Matt Goukas played their guts out despite assorted injuries.

It was an effort propelled by a strong motivation; dedication to a mission known as winning. These were driven men. Old pros who refused to buckle.

The Knick series can be forgotten now. The 76ers face a new challenge; one that is much bigger. Can they produce another maximum effort against Boston?

* * *

THERE THEY are — the Philadelphia 76ers. See how they scrap. Watch how they claw.

Notice their contempt for adversity.





Fond Du Lac Commonwealth Reporter - March 30, 1968

Injuries Plague 76ers

The Philadelphia 76ers, a team some rank as the physically strongest in professional basketball history, are in trouble. The trouble is injuries—to handyman Bill Cunningham and starting forward Luke Jackson, and to a lesser degree the two standouts of the defending world champions, Wilt Chamberlain and Hal Greer.

Cunningham broke his right wrist in the double overtime, 138-132 victory over New York which gave the 76ers a 2-1 lead in the best-of-seven series Wednesday night at Philadelphia. Cunningham shoots southpaw, but the injury has kayoed him for the year.

Jackson, the brutish, 6-foot-9 forward who supplies Wilt with rebounding assistance, has a hamstring pull, and was a doubtful performer when the series resumed at Madison Square Garden today.

Chamberlain has been taking cortisone shots in his right toe, and Greer, the middle-distance shooting star, has a knee which troubles him and on which he wears a brace.

Wally Wonder

It appears that Wally Jones, Greer's partner at guard who unblushingly dubbed himself "Wally Wonder," and Chet Walker, the smooth cornerman, are the only healthy 76er starters now.

The team, which ended Boston's domination last winter and then went on to stop San Francisco in the final playoff, was conceded as good a chance this season before the injuries set in. To make matters worse, the current opponent— the Knicks—is a young team which is just starting to feel its oats. The Knicks would enjoy nothing more than knocking off the world champions, and you can bet that Boston will be cheering for them.

Those who watch the pros over ABC each Sunday afternoon will have a chance to watch two games tomorrow. ABC announced Thursday that it will "split" its telecasting time, switching from the 76ers-Knicks' game to the Pistons-Celtics' match and back as the occasion arises.

This will give fans a chance to watch pivotal games in the Eastern Division playoffs, from which will probably spring the eventual champion.

The Pistons and Celtics are tied at 2-2 after Boston's 135- 110 win Thursday. Detroit, which won 10 of its last 13 games to beat out Cincinnati for the fourth playoff spot in the East, has given Boston a stronger run than the aging Celtics expected.

The two playoff series will probably be decided by the play of the two men who have dominated the game in recent years, Chamberlain and Bill Russell.

Counting On Wilt

With his team crippled by injuries, 76ers coach Alex Hannum said Friday that he is counting on Chamberlain to carry his club through against the Knicks. For Boston, player-coach Russell must play well for the Celtics to win.

Both teams depend on their big men to lead them to success. In both cases, the chores have been handed to capable men. So it will come as no surprise if the Celtics and 76ers end up in the Eastern Division's final round.

But the Knickerbockers will have something to say before it's over, and the Pistons likewise. The more experienced 76ers and Celtics are hoping the youngsters remember an old saying which goes, "Children should be seen and not heard."





Lawrence Daily Journal World - April 29, 1968

There never has been a keener rivalry in athletics than the one between basketball's Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell.

But while they go at it tooth and nail on the court, Wilt of Philly and Bill of Boston have great respect for each other.

After the Celtics edged the 76ers in the Eastern playoffs — mainly because the 76ers turned stone cold from the floor m the second half — Chamberlain led his mates to the Boston dressing room to congratulate the Celts.

But Russell, sportsman that he is, was quick to turn it around and laud Wilt, who played the final game with a bad leg injury. "Any lesser man wouldn't even be on the court, yet here was Wilt out there giving it all be had," Bill said.

At one point, Celt guard Larry Siegfried tried to stop Wilt from making a dunk by wrapping both arms around him The fabulous 7-1 strongman merely unleashed his fantastic power and flipped the 6-4, 215 pound Siegfried clear off the end of the court. Russell has often said he never hangs or to a jump ball too long with Chamberlain: "I'm always afraid he'll pick both of us up and stuff us through the hoop, Russell chortles. Everyone in the NBA contends Chamberlain is the strongest man they've ever encountered.

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13


It was deemed remarkable that they even got to the Division Finals vs. Boston with all the injuries. Luke Jackson was playing with a badly pulled hamstring. When Lakers star Magic pulled his hamstring in '89 Finals, he could not even play the final game at all & much of the third game. While the 1989 Lakers get excused due to injury, the '68 Sixers do not. Back in the old days they were expected to gut it out under worse playing conditions, as Jackson did when he played the entire 1966 season on a broken leg, casually shrugging it off as shin splints.

There were times during the NY series when the hobbled Sixers were getting killed on the boards, as Bellamy & Reed were feasting on the offensive glass. They played Games 4, 5, and 6 consecutively. No days off in between.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwCmKvHJNoQ&t=16m20s



New York Times - Apr 18, 1968

But injuries have depleted the team that ended the Celtics' eight-year reign last season. Wally Jones, the jump-shooting Philadelphia guard with the game-breaking touch, is doubtful for Friday. He aggravated his right knee, first injured during the series with the New York Knickerbockers, early in the opening quarter and did not return.

Wilt Chamberlain, the 7-foot pillar of the 76ers, produced 20 points but was in obvious pain with an ailing right leg.




Williamson Daily News - Apr 10, 1968






DELAWARE COUNTY - April 13, 1968

Club Rated 'Most Courageous' By Hannum as Injuries Mount

PHILADELPHIA (AP) - The Philadelphia 76ers could be billed as the best touring troupe In basketball. All they need is a doctor to complete the cast.

Going into the fourth game Sunday of their National Basketball Association playoff series with the Boston Celtics, the 76ers are hurting from head to toe.

So what's new? Injuries have plagued the defending NBA champions since the opening of the season.

"Alex Hannum says this is the most courageous team he's ever coached," says Harvey Pollack, the 76ers' statistician. "The locker room looks like a hospital ward every time I walk in."

Pollack ticked off some of the cases, which read like a medical diary:

-Wilt Chamberlain (partial tear of the calf muscle in his right leg, a strain in his right thigh and an injured right toe):

-Wally Jones (injured knee cartilage):

-Luke Jackson (pulled hamstring muscle):

-Hal Greer (bursitus in his right knee):

-And, Billy Cunningham (broken right wrist).

"That's not mentioning (rookie) Jim Reid who had a knee operation after injuring it the first game of the season," said Pollack, "and Larry Costello," the veteran guard who tore an ankle tendon after one-third of the season was gone.

The most recent injury was to Chamberlain in Friday night's Eastern Division playoff contest with the Celtics. The dipper was given whirlpool treatments for the calf muscle tear, but Pollack wasn't sure how he'd respond.

The 76ers have nine men in uniform for the best-of-seven playoffs, which they lead, two games to one. But whether they'll have anybody left for the finals against the Western Division winner is anybody's guess.

The team's troubles multiplied in the Eastern Division semifinals against the New York Knickerbockers. Cunningham broke his wrist, knocking him out for the season, Jones and Jackson suffered their injuries and Chamberlain aggravated his perennial toe injury.

And when Boston thumped the 76ers in the opening game of their playoffs here last Friday, some predicted a quick knockout of the injury-riddled champs.

But Philadelphia whacked Boston two straight, including Thursday where an injury actually helped the 76ers cause, points out Pollack.

How so?

"Well, Chamberlain was hurt and he couldn't turn around to score-so he kept feeding Greer, and he scored 31," explained the statistician.

Continued...

[sd3035]

1968 Sixers had a 3-1 series lead over the Celtics after winning 3 games in a row. Led by Chamberlain, they managed to lose the next 3 games in a row, costing them the series and a potential repeat championship. Here are Wilt's stats in Games 6 and 7.

1968 EDF vs Boston

Game 6 (L 106-114)

20 points
6-21 FG
8-22 FT

Hall of Fame teammate Hal Greer scored 40 points.
Sixers missed 19 freethrows, with 14 of them being missed by Chamberlain.

Game 7 (L 96-100)

14 points
4-9 FG
6-15 FT

Hal Greer scored 22, Chet Walker scored 19, Wali Jones 18, Luke Jackson 15, Wilt was the fifth leading scorer for his team and 9th leading scorer in the game.
Sixers missed 16 freethrows, with 9 of them being missed by Chamberlain.

Wilt Chamberlain had a combined total of 10-30 FG and 14-38 FT in Games 6 and 7.

From 1968-1970 Wilt Chamberlain's seasons came to an end by losing in a Game 7. In 1968 blowing a 3-1 series lead over the Celtics, in 1969 blowing a 2-0 and 3-2 series to Boston in the Finals, and in 1970 losing to the New York Knicks in the Finals.


I see why Wilt and Lebron share the same fanbase. Insecure, akward losers who shrivel under pressure. Their fans see themselves in their heroes, albeit a poverty version

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

So here was Chamberlain, playing every minute of a seven game series, with multiple injuries, including the same exact injury that rendered Willis Reed a useless statue in the last three games of the '70 Finals...

hanging a 22-25-7 game series.



Originally Posted by ClipperRevival
If you are the GOAT and you are in a game 7 playing for elimination, you demand the ball. And it's not like game 7 was Wilt's only questionable playoff moment/game. If that were the case, we might be able to blame his teammates for not getting him the ball. His game 7 "injury" in 1969 and just terrible game and series. He had a gimp Reed in game 7 in 1970 but played passive. And he had went for 45 points in game 6, which meant he was clearly capable of great thing but didn't go after it like a killer like MJ or Russell would.

His game 7 "injury" in 1969 was confirmed by none other than the Wilt-hating coach, himself....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain


Ironically, Van Breda Kolff came to Chamberlain's defense, insisting the often-maligned Lakers center hardly was able to move in the end.


Then...the famous WILT DOUBLE-STANDARD...

Wilt wasn't a "killer" like Russell or MJ...

In their four H2H game seven's...

Russell averaged 13.0 ppg, 24.5 rpg, and shot .465 from the floor
Wilt averaged 21.0 ppg, 28.5 rpg, and shot .638 from the floor

Ok, in game seven of the '62 EDF's, Wilt scored Philly's last five points to tie the game, and then nearly blocked Sam Jones game-winning shot.

In game seven of the '65 EDF's, Chamberlain scored Philly's last eight points, including 2-2 from the line with 36 secs left, and a thunderous dunk over a helpless Russell with 5 secs left. Oh, and how about the "clutch" Russell? Following Wilt's dunk, he hit a guidewire with his inbound pass, giving the ball back to the 76ers, and with a chance for Philadelphia to pull off the greatest upset in NBA playoff history (a 40-40 team beating an eventual champion 62-18 Celtics team.) But, as was often the case, it was a Russell TEAMMATE who saved the day...this time Havlicek (Havlicek steals the ball!)

As for the "killer" MJ...

he has three straight series clinching games from '85 to '87, in which he shot 6-16. 8-18, and 9-35. He also QUIT on his team in a game five of a series that was tied 2-2, and his team essentially quit on him after that game. BTW, you blame Wilt in that game seven, for only taking nine shots (although he was never given the ball by his teammates), but MJ took a measley eight shots in that "mailed in" game five. Just a horrific choke job by your "GOAT."

MJ also led his '95 Bulls down the toilet against Magic in the ECSF's with an awful game six of 8-19 from the floor.

Furthermore, MJ's TEAMMATES carried him to a series clinching game six win in the '96 Finals, and in a game in which Jordan shot a pathetic 5-19 from the field. Oh, and who can forget MJ's very forgetful game seven of the '98 ECF's, when MJ butchered his team with a 9-25 game, but was again saved by his teammates?

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Originally Posted by ClipperRevival
If you are the GOAT and you are in a game 7 playing for elimination, you demand the ball. And it's not like game 7 was Wilt's only questionable playoff moment/game. If that were the case, we might be able to blame his teammates for not getting him the ball. His game 7 "injury" in 1969 and just terrible game and series. He had a gimp Reed in game 7 in 1970 but played passive. And he had went for 45 points in game 6, which meant he was clearly capable of great thing but didn't go after it like a killer like MJ or Russell would.

More of the same WILT DOUBLE STANDARD...

Yep, when a Chamberlain, playing only four months after major knee surgery (the same surgery that took Elgin Baylor over a year-and-a-half to even remotely come back from)


hangs an epic "must win" 45-27 game (on 20-27 shooting) ...why didn't he ALWAYS do it?

I have asked myself the same question of Michael Jordan. A fully heathy MJ, BTW.

Everyone remembers his 63 point game against the Celtics, right? Well guess what? In the very next series clinching game, Jordan completely puked all over the floor with a 19 point game on 8-18 shooting, in a series clinching blowout loss. What happened? Why couldn't this "killer" summon up another 63 point game? In fact, he would never approach it again in the playoffs. How come?

Kareem was fantastic in the first four games of the '70 EDF's. In game five, he was outscored by Willis Reed, 32-27, in a series clinching blowout loss.

KAJ was again dominant in the first six games of the '74 Finals. In game six he scored 34 points, on 16-26 shooting, in a 102-101 win. In game seven, on his home floor, he was outplayed by the 6-9 Dave Cowens (particularly in the 4th quarter), in an embarrassing blowout loss. How come? Where was HIS 45-27 "must win" game?


I also find it fascinating that in Wilt's two Finals, that went to game seven's, he averaged 19.5 ppg, 25.5 rpg, and shot...get this... .708 from the field. His two opposing HOF centers averaged 5.0 ppg, 12.0 rpg, and shot .333 from the field in those two games. However, Wilt's TEAMs lost both.

Then think about this...

The famous first round choker, Hakeem, had a game seven in the Finals, in which he shot 10-25 from the floor...in a WIN.

Tim Duncan had a game seven in a Finals, of a 10-27 performance...in a WIN. BTW, he also choked away a game seven in the Finals by blowing a wide-open lay-up.

Kareem had a game seven in a Finals...in which he played 29 minutes, scored four points, on 2-7 shooting, with 3 rebounds, and 5 PFs...and was mauled by Laimbeer and Edwards...in a WIN.

Oh, and KAJ even called in sick in a potential Finals clinching game six, and then watched in horror as Magic Johnson carried his Lakers to a dominating win.

And how about Willis Reed winning a title, and the FMVP, with a game seven performance of 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 3 rebounds...while his opposing HOF center hung a 21-24 game on 10-16 shooting?

Yep...the WILT DOUBLE STANDARD...

[LAZERUSS]

And here are Wilt's 23 "must win" playoff game numbers...


12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)


3 games of 50+ points (including the ONLY THREE by a GOAT candidate)

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

In fact, how about I give you EVERY one of Chamberlain's 37 "must win" and "series clinching" games...ALL of them (even the "bad ones.")


Wilt actually played in 37 "elimination games",...games where either his team faced elimination, or could have clinched the series:

1. W: 53-22-2, 24-42 FG/FGA

2. W: 50-35-2, 22-42

3. L: 26-24-0, 8-18

4. L: 33-23-1, 13-29

5. W: 56-35-1, 22-48

6. W: 32-21-1, 12-29

7. L: 22-22-3, 7-15

8. W: 39-30-?, 19-29

9. L: 30-27-2, 12-28

10. W: 38-26-5, 14-22, 10 blks (Triple-Double)

11. W: 30-26-4, 13-22, 13 blks (Triple-Double)

12. L: 30-32-2, 12-15

13. L: 46-34-?, 19-34

14. W: 18-27-9, 7-14

15. W: 29-36-13, 10-16, 7 blks (Triple-Double)

16. W: 24-23-4, 8-13

17. W: 25-27-3, 10-19

18. L: 28-30-7, 11-21

19. L: 20-27-8, 6-21

20. L: 14-34-5, 4-9

21. W: 11-25-1, 5-9

22. W: 16-29-3, 5-11, 16 blks (Triple-Double)

23. L: 8-18-4, 1-5

24. L: 18-27-3, 7-8

25. W: 36-14-3, 12-20

26. W: 12-26-11, 4-11, 11 blks (Quad-Double)

27. W: 30-27-6, 11-18, 11 blks (Triple-Double)

28. W: 45-27-3, 20-27

29. L: 21-24-4, 10-16

30. W: 25-19-9, 7-12

31. L: 23-12-4, 10-21

32. W: 8-31-8, 4-6

33. W: 20-24-2, 8-12, 10 blks (Triple-Double)

34. W: 24-29-4, 10-14, 8 blks

35. W: 21-28-4, 10-17, 8 blks

36. W: 5-22-7, 2-2

37. L: 23-21-3, 9-16


W-L : 24-13

Here were Wilt's averages in those 37 games:

29.5 ppg

26.1 rpg

4.2 apg (missing one game)

.546 FG% (in post-seasons that shot about .440 on average in that span.)

Keep in mind that 24 of those 37 games came after his "scoring seasons" (59-60 thru 65-66)


THAT was the Wilt whom ClippersClown has claimed lacked a "killer instinct."