@ Lazeruss

[aj1987]

Wilt shot like shit in the playoffs. Especially his FT's. Can you please explain why?

I DON'T CARE ABOUT HIS TEAMMATES FG% AND FT% RELATIVE TO THE LEAGUE AVERAGE.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt shot like shit in the playoffs. Especially his FT's. Can you please explain why?

I DON'T CARE ABOUT HIS TEAMMATES FG% AND FT% RELATIVE TO THE LEAGUE AVERAGE.

Good for you...

[aj1987]

Good for you...
Please explain why, without bringing up what his teammates shots (acc to the league average). Everything points to him being an EPIC choker.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Laz is on record saying Wilt was a great shooter.

[aj1987]

Laz is on record saying Wilt was a great shooter.
What were Wilt's FT numbers in close loses, btw?

[Deuce Bigalow]

What were Wilt's FT numbers in close loses, btw?
Bball reference has his gamelogs with FT shooting numbers since 63-64 season. I'll try to find 60-63.

[LAZERUSS]

Laz is on record saying Wilt was a great shooter.

Nine FG% titles in his 14 seasons. The two highest FG% seasons in NBA history. Outshot the league eFG% by unfathomable margins that no one has approached since. Dramatically outshot his opposing HOF centers in his post-season H2H's...

yes, he obviously was a great shooter.

[moe94]

Stop hating on Laz. Unlike most Wilt stans, he's nowhere near as condescending. He's just clearly their leader.

[aj1987]

Nine FG% titles in his 14 seasons. The two highest FG% seasons in NBA history. Outshot the league eFG% by unfathomable margins that no one has approached since. Dramatically outshot his opposing HOF centers in his post-season H2H's...

yes, he obviously was a great shooter.
And then the Playoffs happened...

[LAZERUSS]

Bball reference has his gamelogs with FT shooting numbers since 63-64 season. I'll try to find 60-63.

We know that he shot 64% against Boston in the '62 EDF's, which included a game seven of 8-9 from the line...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Nine FG% titles in his 14 seasons. The two highest FG% seasons in NBA history. Dramatically outshot his opposing HOF centers in his post-season H2H's...

yes, he obviously was a great shooter.
Shaq has 10 FG% titles...

Andre Drummond is the current FG% leader...

[aj1987]

Shaq has 10 FG% titles...

Andre Drummond is the current FG% leader...
:bowdown: :bowdown: Drummond!

[Deuce Bigalow]

He just admitted to us that Wilt was a GREAT SHOOTER. Wilt Chamberlain was a great shooter guys.

51.1%FT career in the Regular season
45.0%FT career in the Playoffs
37.5%FT career in the Finals

Great shooters shoot those percentages on wide open freethrows 15 feet out.

[Deuce Bigalow]

We know that he shot 64% against Boston in the '62 EDF's, which included a game seven of 8-9 from the line...
One down

Elimination games-Playoffs

'62: 8-9

[aj1987]

He just admitted to us that Wilt was a GREAT SHOOTER. Wilt Chamberlain was a great shooter guys.

51.1%FT career in the Regular season
45.0%FT career in the Playoffs
37.5%FT career in the Finals

Great shooters shoot those percentages on wide open freethrows 15 feet out.
:bowdown: :bowdown:

[LAZERUSS]

And then the Playoffs happened...

His .522 playoff career eFG% came in post-season's that averaged about a .435 eFG%...or nearly 10% higher than the league average. And, he faced a HOF starting center in 105 of his 160 playoff games, as well as a multiple all-star starting center in 26 more. Included were 18 games against Reed, 17 against Thurmond, 11 against a peak Kareem, and 49 against Russell.

And while Chamberlain was putting up playoff series of .500, .560, and even .611 against Nate, a peak KAJ was putting up playoff series of .486, .428, and even a .405 against an aging Thurmond.

And, as well all know, Chamberlain outshot his opposing starting centers, and by huge margins, in all six of his Finals.

Even using TS%, Chamberlain was STILL outshooting them by crushing margins...

[LAZERUSS]

:bowdown: :bowdown:

Shaq was equally as bad...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Shaq was equally as bad...
NOPE

Finals career FT%

Hakeem: 91/123 (74.0%)
Kareem: 229/326 (70.2%)
Russell: 319/520 (61.3%)
Shaq: 185/382 (48.4%)
Wilt: 124/331 (37.5%)

Shaq shot 11% better in the Finals than Wilt


In the entire postseasons?

Wilt 45.0%
Shaq 50.4%

[aj1987]

Shaq was equally as bad...
Not worse than Wilt though. Shaq averaged his highest PPG in the Finals. Unlike Wilt, who's a RS hero.

@ Deuce, Can you post Shaq's and Wilt's PPG?

[LAZERUSS]

NOPE

Finals career FT%

Hakeem: 91/123 (74.0%)
Kareem: 229/326 (70.2%)
Russell: 319/520 (61.3%)
Shaq: 185/382 (48.4%)
Wilt: 124/331 (37.5%)

Shaq shot 11% better in the Finals than Wilt


In the entire postseasons?

Wilt 45.0%
Shaq 50.4%

And yet Hakeem, the best FT shooter of them all...only two rings in 18 seasons. That explains the importance of FT shooting I guess.

[aj1987]

And yet Hakeem, the best FT shooter of them all...only two rings in 18 seasons. That explains the importance of FT shooting I guess.
The same as 50 PPG Wilt. Yeah, it sure does!

[Deuce Bigalow]

And yet Hakeem, the best FT shooter of them all...only two rings in 18 seasons. That explains the importance of FT shooting I guess.
You know that Wilt won the same amount as Hakeem, right?

[moe94]

You know that Wilt won the same amount as Hakeem, right?

:applause: :roll:

I choked.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Not worse than Wilt though. Shaq averaged his highest PPG in the Finals. Unlike Wilt, who's a RS hero.

@ Deuce, Can you post Shaq's and Wilt's PPG?
Playoffs

Shaq - 24.3 ppg
Wilt - 22.5 ppg

Finals

Shaq - 28.0 ppg
Wilt - 18.6 ppg

[Deuce Bigalow]

Just ask the 2013 Spurs if freethrows are important.

[aj1987]

Playoffs

Shaq - 24.3 ppg
Wilt - 22.5 ppg

Finals

Shaq - 28.0 ppg
Wilt - 18.6 ppg
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

And this is including Shaq's 13PPG in '06, right? I'm sure it is.

[LAZERUSS]

You know that Wilt won the same amount as Hakeem, right?

Only if you include rings.

Chamberlain led his team's to far better records, much further in the post-season, and to far more Finals.

And once again, using your ridiculous logic...Wilt=KAJ. Except that in their four years in the league together, Chamberlain held 3-1 Finals advantage. and was obvioulsy much more "clutch" because of it, right?

[Psileas]

What were Wilt's FT numbers in close loses, btw?

What is the point? Just to throw an idea, is it to see how many FT's he lost so that you can put the blame of their losses on him losing FT's wherever you can?

And while I'm here, let me do some quick fix of a quote of yours:


Not worse than Wilt though. Shaq averaged his highest PPG against crippled, retiring and never a great defender Rik Smits. Unlike Wilt, who was facing Bill Russell and Nate Thurmond.

[moe94]

Only if you include rings.


If you're talking about winning, that's all that matters. No one cares who came in second or who the silver medalist is. Stop. You got destroyed there.

[aj1987]

What is the point? Just to throw an idea, is it to see how many FT's he lost so that you can put the blame of their losses on him losing FT's wherever you can?

And while I'm here, let me do some quick fix of a quote of yours:
You do know that Shaq averaged 28/13/6/2 on 60% against Hakeem, right? Oh, and this was a 23 year old Shaq.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Only if you include rings.

Chamberlain led his team's to far better records, much further in the post-season, and to far more Finals.

And once again, using your ridiculous logic...Wilt=KAJ. Except that in their four years in the league together, Chamberlain held 3-1 Finals advantage. and was obvioulsy much more "clutch" because of it, right?
Hakeem would have what? 5, 6 rings? If he was on Wilt's teams. '67-'70 would be a 4peat. Imagine peak Jerry West as your guard that DOMINATES the playoffs and Finals like no other at the time.

[LAZERUSS]

You do know that Shaq averaged 28/13/6/2 on 60% against Hakeem, right? Oh, and this was a 23 year old Shaq.

Oh wait...he was SWEPT in that series...

Must have been his fault...

BTW, a 38-39 year old KAJ, in ten straight H2H's against Hakeem, averaged 33 ppg on a .621 FG%. Included were games of 40, 43, and 46 points (on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes.)

[CavaliersFTW]

NOPE

Finals career FT%

Hakeem: 91/123 (74.0%)
Kareem: 229/326 (70.2%)
Russell: 319/520 (61.3%)
Shaq: 185/382 (48.4%)
Wilt: 124/331 (37.5%)

Shaq shot 11% better in the Finals than Wilt


In the entire postseasons?

Wilt 45.0%
Shaq 50.4%
And despite this Wilt was still more effective at the line than Shaq, in Wilt's era it was 2 to make 1 and 3 to make 2. As such, he often made points when he got sent to the line, regardless of his percentage. Different rules mean different impact. You guys who are so obsessed with efficiency and shit of this era always seem to fail to understand the subtle differences between how the game was played then and now and how that means direct comparisons of stats are misleading. You'll be the quickest to jump on someone who tries to suggest Wilt would put up 'the same' production in today's era (even though nobody says that, you mock "Wilt fans" as if they do), yet you'll be the last to admit it when a statistic of his from his era is an unfavorable one. How cute.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Oh wait...he was SWEPT in that series...

Must have been his fault...
At least he wasn't swept to a losing team in the first round like Wilt...

[LAZERUSS]

Hakeem would have what? 5, 6 rings? If he was on Wilt's teams. '67-'70 would be a 4peat. Imagine peak Jerry West as your guard that DOMINATES the playoffs and Finals like no other at the time.

Once again, using your ridiculous logic, it must have been West's fault that they lost in '69...since he was the supposed leader of that team...

[aj1987]

Oh wait...he was SWEPT in that series...

Must have been his fault...
Still doesn't chane the face that Wilt is a playoffs choker.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Once again, using your ridiculous logic, it must have been West's fault that they lost in '69...since he was the supposed leader of that team...
Wilt's regular season ppg declined by -8.8 ppg, making it the 2nd biggest decline in regular season to finals ppg of alltime. Also his below 40% freethrow shooting, the norm for him in the Finals hurt them.

[LAZERUSS]

Hakeem would have what? 5, 6 rings? If he was on Wilt's teams. '67-'70 would be a 4peat. Imagine peak Jerry West as your guard that DOMINATES the playoffs and Finals like no other at the time.

Hakeem won one ring in a season in which MJ took the year off (and his Bulls went 55-27 without him, and lost a close seven game series against a NY team that would lose a close seventh game against Hakeem's Rockets.)

And in his '95 Finals, Hakeem had a TS% of .508, in a post-season NBA that had a TS% of .541, and in which his TEAMMATES collectively had a TS% of .595 (BTW, Shaq had a TS% of .589.)

Too bad Chamberlain never had teammates that stepped up like, or faced NY teams that only had one decent player (Ewing.)

[Psileas]

You do know that Shaq averaged 28/13/6/2 on 60% against Hakeem, right? Oh, and this was a 23 year old Shaq.

And you do know that Wilt, in the sole season he was scoring big and got to the Finals, averaged 29/28 against Russell, right? And that he never gave up 33 ppg to a 28 ppg scorer, right?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hakeem won one ring in a season in which MJ took the year off (and his Bulls went 55-27 without him, and lost a close seven game series against a NY team that would lose a close seventh game against Hakeem's Rockets.)

And in his '95 Finals, Hakeem had a TS% of .508, in a post-season NBA that had a TS% of .541, and in which his TEAMMATES collectively had a TS% of .595 (BTW, Shaq had a TS% of .589.)

Too bad Chamberlain never had teammates that stepped up like, or faced NY teams that only had one decent player (Ewing.)
Awe poor Chamberlain. Had Jerry West AVERAGE 38-5-7 in the NBA Finals with 53/10 in game 1 and 41 points in game 2 to build up a 2-0 series lead...but poor Wilt still found a way to lose.

[CavaliersFTW]

Oh wait...he was SWEPT in that series...

Must have been his fault...

BTW, a 38-39 year old KAJ, in ten straight H2H's against Hakeem, averaged 33 ppg on a .621 FG%. Included were games of 40, 43, and 46 points (on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes.)
As the so called most dominant player and biggest/strongest of his era it was his title to lose too. Shaq choked through and through. Bigger stronger faster than his opponent, and he totally blew it. Don't even get me started on the rest of his career. He has more losing seasons (seasons that he failed to win a title) than Wilt had. And he's supposedly 'most dominant' of his era :oldlol: pathetic.

Am I doing it right?

http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/5I5s8.png




Wilt critic logic



http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/shaq.png

[LAZERUSS]

Still doesn't chane the face that Wilt is a playoffs choker.


One more damned time...


The idiotic Bill Simmons claims that Wilt "shrunk" in the post-season, particularly in BIG games.

Had he actually done any real research into Wilt's post-season career, he would have found that Wilt averaged 27.0 ppg in his 35 "must-win" and/or clinching games. Meanwhile, his starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg in those 35 games. He also outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including a 19-0 edge in his first 19 games of those 35. Furthermore, in his 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from 59-60 thru 65-66), Chamberlain averaged 37.3 ppg in those "do-or-die" or clinching games. And there were MANY games in which he just CRUSHED his opposing centers in those games (e.g. he outscored Kerr in one them, 53-7.)

Wilt had THREE of his four 50+ point post-season games, in these "elimination games", including two in "at the limit" games, and another against Russell in a "must-win" game. He also had games of 46-34 and 45-27 (and only 4 months removed from major knee surgery) in these types of games. In addition he had games of 39 and 38 in clinching wins.

In the known 19 games in which we have both Wilt's, and his starting opposing center's rebounding numbers, Chamberlain outrebounded them in 15 of them, and by an average margin of 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg. And, had we had all 35 of the totals, it would have been by a considerably larger margin. A conservative estimate would put Wilt with at least a 30-5 overall edge in those 35 games. He also had games, even against the likes of Russell, and in "must-win" situations, where he just MURDERED his opposing centers (e.g. he had one clinching game, against Russell, in which he outrebounded him by a 36-21 margin.)

And finally, in the known FG% games in which we have, Chamberlain not only shot an eye-popping .582 in those "do-or-die" games, but he held his opposing centers to a combined .413 FG%. BTW, he played against Kareem in two "clinching" games, and held Abdul-Jabbar to a combined .383 shooting in those two games (23-60), while Chamberlain himself, shot .545 (18-33.)

The bottom line, in the known games of the 35 that Wilt played in that involved a "must-win" or clincher, Wilt averaged 27 ppg, 26.1 rpg, and shot .582 (and the 27 ppg figure was known for all 35 of those games.)

And once again, Chamberlain played in 11 games which went to the series limit (nine game seven's, one game five of a best-of-five series, and one game three of a best-of-three series), and all he did was average 29.9 ppg (outscoring his opposing center by a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg margin in the process), with 26.7 rpg, and on .581 shooting. Or he was an eye-lash away from averaging a 30-27 game, and on nearly .600 shooting, in those 11 "at the limit" games.


Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain's TEAMs went 24-11 in those 35 games, too.

That was the same player that Simmons basically labeled a "loser", and a "choker", and who "shrunk" in his BIG games.

[Psileas]

Still doesn't chane the face that Wilt is a playoffs choker.

...and then will come the old list of Lazeruss that includes all of Wilt's performances in do or die playoff games and you'll go to sleep.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

What's with all the disrespect Wilt gets? Yeah he was a bad ft shooter, but so was Shaq :confusedshrug:

Not his fault he ran into one of the greatest teams ever. Replace Lakers Shaq with prime Wilt. People really think Wilt wouldn't win at least three championships?

[LAZERUSS]

...and then will come the old list of Lazeruss that includes all of Wilt's performances in do or die playoff games and you'll go to sleep.

Yep...and here they are...


Ok, here are the known numbers in Wilt's "must-win" playoff games (elimination games), and clinching game performances (either deciding winning or losing games), of BOTH Chamberlain, and his starting opposing centers in those games.

1. Game three of a best-of-three series in the first round of the 59-60 playoffs against Syracuse, a 132-112 win. Wilt with 53 points, on 24-42 shooting, with 22 rebounds. His opposing center, Red Kerr, who was a multiple all-star in his career, had 7 points.

2. Game five of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, a 128-107 win. Chamberlain had 50 points, on 22-42 shooting, with 35 rebounds. His opposing center, Russell, had 22 points and 27 rebounds.

3. Game six of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, in a 119-117 loss. Wilt had a 26-24 game, while Russell had a 25-25 game.

4. Game three of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 60-61 playoffs , and against Syracuse, in a 106-103 loss. Chamberlain with 33 points, while his opposing center, the 7-3 Swede Halbrook, scored 6 points.

5. Game five of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 61-62 playoffs, against Syracuse, in a 121-104 win. Chamberlain had 56 points, on 22-48 shooting, with 35 rebounds. Kerr had 20 points in the loss.

6. Game six of the 61-62 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 109-99 win. Wilt with 32 points and 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points and 22 rebounds in the loss.

7. Game seven of the 61-62 ECF's, against Boston, in a 109-107 loss. Wilt with 22 points, on 7-15 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the win.

8. Game seven of the 63-64 WCF's, and against St. Louis, in a 105-95 win. Wilt with 39 points, 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty, who would go on to become a multiple all-star, had 10 points in the loss.

9. Game five of the 63-64 Finals, and against Boston, in a 105-99 loss. Chamberlain with 30 points and 27 rebounds. Russell had 14 points and 26 points in the win.

10. Game four of a best-of-five series in the 64-65 first round of the playoffs against Cincinnati, a 119-112 win. Chamberlain with 38 points. His opposing center, multiple all-star (and HOFer) Wayne Embry had 7 points in the loss.

11. Game six of the 64-65 ECF's, against Boston, a 112-106 win. Chamberlain with a 30-26 game. Russell with a 22-21 game in the loss.

12. Game seven of the 64-65 ECF's, and against Boston, a 110-109 loss. Wilt with 30 points, on 12-15 shooting, with 32 rebounds. Russell had 15 points, on 7-16 shooting, with 29 rebounds in the win.

13. Game five of a best-of-seven series, in the 65-66 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 120-112 loss. Wilt had 46 points, on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 18 points and 31 rebounds in the win.

14. Game four of a best-of-five series, in the first round of the 66-67 playoffs, and against Cincinnati, a 112-94 win. Wilt with 18 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 27 rebounds and 9 assists. His opposing center, Connie Dierking, had 8 points, on 4-14 shooting, with 4 rebounds in the loss.

15. Game five of the 66-67 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 140-116 win. Chamberlain with 29 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 36 rebounds, 13 assists, and 7 blocks. Russell had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds, and 7 assists in the loss.

16. Game six of the 66-67 Finals, and against San Francisco, in a 125-122 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 8-13 shooting, with 23 rebounds. His oppsoing center, HOFer Nate Thurmond, had 12 points, on 4-13 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the loss.

17. Game six of the first round of the 67-68 playoffs, against NY, in a 113-97 win. Wilt had 25 points, and 27 rebounds. His opposing center, HOFer Walt Bellamy, had 19 points in the loss.

18. Game seven of the 67-68 ECF's, against Boston, in a 100-96 loss. Wilt with 14 points, on 4-9 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 12 points and 26 rebounds in the win.

19. Game six of the first round of the 68-69 playoffs, against San Francisco, in a 118-78 win. Wilt with 11 points. Thurmond had 8 points in the loss.

20. Game four of the 68-69 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Chamberlain with 16 points. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty had 30 points in the loss.

21. Game seven of the 68-69 Finals, against Boston, in a 108-106 loss. Chamberlain had 18 points, on 7-8 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Russell had 6 points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds in the win.

22. Game five of a best-of-seven series (the Lakers were down 3-1 going into the game) in the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, and against Phoenix, a 138-121 win. Wilt with 36 points and 14 rebounds. His opposing center, Neal Walk, had 18 points in the loss.

23. Game six of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, in a 104-93 win. Wilt with 12 points. Jim Fox started that game for Phoenix, and had 13 points in the loss.

24. Game seven of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, and in a 129-94 win, which capped a 4-3 series win after falling behind 3-1 in the series. Wilt with 30 points, 27 rebounds, and 11 blocks. Fox had 7 points in the loss.

25. Game four of the 69-70 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Wilt with 11 points. Bellamy had 19 points in the loss.

26. Game six of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 135-113 win. Wilt with 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Nate Bowman had 18 points, on 9-15 shooting, with 8 rebounds in the loss.

27. Game seven of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 113-99 loss. Wilt with 21 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 24 rebounds. HOFer Willis Reed had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 3 rebounds in the win.

28. Game seven of the first round of the 70-71 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 109-98 win. Wilt with 25 points and 18 rebounds. 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle had 4 points for the Bulls in the loss.

29. Game five of the 70-71 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 116-94 loss. Wilt had 23 points, on 10-21 shooting, with 12 rebounds, 6 blocks (5 of them on Alcindor/Kareem.) Kareem had 20 points, on 7-23 shooting, with 15 rebounds, and 3 blocks in the win. Incidently, Wilt received a standing ovation when he left the game late...and the game was played in Milwaukee.

30. Game four of the 71-72 first round of the playoffs, against Chicago, in a 108-97 sweeping win. Wilt had 8 points and 31 rebounds. Clifford Ray had 20 points in the loss.

31. Game six of the 71-72 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 104-100 win. Chamberlain with 20 points, on 8-12 shooting, with 24 rebounds, and 9 blocks (six against Kareem.) Kareem had 37 points, on 16-37 shooting, with 25 rebounds in the loss.

32. Game five of the 71-72 Finals, against NY, in a 114-100 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds, and 9 blocks. HOFer Jerry Lucas had 14 points, on 5-14 shooting, with 9 rebounds in the loss.

33. Game seven of the first round of the 72-73 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 95-92 win. Wilt with 21 points and 28 rebounds. His opposing center, Clifford Ray, had 4 points.

34. Game five of the 72-73 WCF's, and against Golden St., in a 128-118 win. Wilt with 5 points. Thurmond had 9 points in the loss.

35. Game five of the 72-73 Finals, against NY, in a 102-93 loss. Wilt with 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Willis Reed had 18 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 12 rebounds.

That was it. 35 "must-win" elimination and/or clinching post-season games.

[Deuce Bigalow]

'69 Finals Gm 4: 2-11 FT (1 point loss)
'69 Finals Gm 7: 4-13 FT (2 point loss)

[LAZERUSS]

And this...


Shaq CHOKED numerous times, too. No other all-time great was involved in more sweeping losses, either. And he narrowly avoided two more.

And I already explained Wilt's "decline" in which his scoring dropped marginally, his FG% dropped marginally, in post-seasons in which scoring and eFG% also declined marginally, all with his rebounding increasing, and with him dramatically reducing the efficiency of his HOF opposing centers in the process.

And again, Shaq had post-season series in which he was either outscored, outrebounded, or outshot from the floor by opposing centers (and several in which his FT shooting was just awful.) And when he faced the Spurs in his post-seasons, his numbers declined significantly. Where are Shaq's 30+ ppg series against the Spurs? But again, you won't give Wilt the same benefit against the greatest defensive center in NBA history, as well as the greatest dynasty in NBA history.

And the reality was, a prime scoring Wilt was a better scorer, a much better rebounder, a much better defensive center, a much better passer, and a much better shot-blocker. And his FG%'s were nearly comparable when compared to league average eFG%'s. In fact, at his peak, his FG%'s just blew away Shaq's, even without using league average.

Of course, Chamberlain never had the luxury of facing a Smits-Davis combo, or a Todd McCullough in his Finals either.

And there is simply no way the NBA would have allowed Chamberlain to play like this against his peers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

By the way, Chamberlain had series against a peak Russell which were every bit as dominant as Shaq did against a 34 year old Motumbo in the '01 Finals. And if you factor in post-season league eFG%, those were even greater.

Shaq's numbers vs. Mutumbo's in the '01 Finals...

Shaq 33.0 ppg, 15.8 rpg, .572 FG%, in a post-season NBA that had an eFG% of .462.
Motumbo 16.8 ppg, 12.2 rpg, and a .600 FG%.

How about Wilt-Russell in the '65 EDF's?

Wilt 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, .555 FG% in a post-season NBA that had an eFG% of .429.
Russell 15.6 ppg, 25.2 rpg, and a .447 FG%.

And again, post a Shaq-Spurs series in which Shaq averaged 30+ ppg.

[Deuce Bigalow]

As the so called most dominant player and biggest/strongest of his era it was his title to lose too. Shaq choked through and through. Bigger stronger faster than his opponent, and he totally blew it. Don't even get me started on the rest of his career. He has more losing seasons (seasons that he failed to win a title) than Wilt had. And he's supposedly 'most dominant' of his era :oldlol: pathetic.

Am I doing it right?

http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/5I5s8.png




Wilt critic logic



http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/shaq.png
Losing seasons? Huh?

Shaq 4
Wilt 2

[LAZERUSS]

'69 Finals Gm 4: 2-11 FT (1 point loss)
'69 Finals Gm 7: 4-13 FT (2 point loss)

Game four...Russell 2-12 from the FIELD. Baylor 2-14 from the field AND 1-6 from the line. Oh, and Chamberlain had 31 rebounds in that game.

Game seven...Wilt 7-8 from the field. Russell 2-7 from the field. Baylor, 8-22 from the field. Wilt shot .875 from the field in that game seven, while his teammates collectively shot .360. Oh, and Russell's teammates collectively shot .477 in that same game. AND, West MISSED FOUR FTs in that same game, too. But, yes, completely Wilt's fault.

[LAZERUSS]

Losing seasons? Huh?

Shaq 4
Wilt 2

Shaq 15 losing seasons.
Wilt with 12.

Shaq was obviously a bigger loser.

[Psileas]

BTW, Lazer, Wilt allegedly also blocked about a dozen shots in that 56-point game vs the Nats and, in that 22-point game vs the Celtics, the same year, played some defense dominant enough to make an admiring Bob Cousy claim that "if Wilt plays like this every time, forget it".

[Deuce Bigalow]

'70 Finals
Gm 1: 1-10 FT
Gm 7: 1-11 FT

[CavaliersFTW]

'69 Finals Gm 4: 2-11 FT (1 point loss)
'69 Finals Gm 7: 4-13 FT (2 point loss)
2 to make 1 3 to make 2

He was sent to the line a lot less times than his free throw attempts indicate.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Shaq 15 losing seasons.
Wilt with 12.

Shaq was obviously a bigger loser.
No no no no

Shaq 4 championships rings
Wilt has half

[SpecialQue]

Why isn't this a PM?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wilt's FT shooting - Last game of the playoffs

'60: 10-16
'61: 7-14
'62: 8-9
'63: Missed playoffs
'64: 6-9
'65: 6-13
'66: 8-25
'67: 8-16
'68: 6-15
'69: 4-13
'70: 1-11
'71: 3-9
'72: 4-9
'73: 5-14

[moe94]

Why isn't this a PM?

You don't like era stans fighting? I personally find it quite enjoyable. I find it weird that Deuce always gets ganged up on, though. Poor dude. :(

[CavaliersFTW]

Losing seasons? Huh?

Shaq 4
Wilt 2
Wow 2 more? Am I supposed to be impressed? :rolleyes: Shaq simply a product of increased longevity. Guy had far more opportunities to win titles, of which, he mostly failed to connect on. :oldlol:

Shaq 'most dominant/biggest/strongest of his era' failed to win a title in, get this, FIFTEEN seasons, fifteen years of being a total loser. Some physical force he was right? Also, one rebounding title, ever, and he's bigger than everybody he played against. 10.7rpg average for career for a 340lb 'dominant' center. And fifteen seasons of choking. :oldlol:


/Wiltcriticlogic

[LAZERUSS]

Enough of this nonsense...

[SpecialQue]

You don't like era stans fighting? I personally find it quite enjoyable. I find it weird that Deuce always gets ganged up on, though. Poor dude. :(

I don't get why people here feel this weird need to bash older players, especially someone like Wilt. It's the "I didn't see it personally, so it couldn't have been that great" bullshit that permeates everything.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wow 2 more? Am I supposed to be impressed? :rolleyes: Shaq simply a product of increased longevity. Guy had far more opportunities to win titles, of which, he mostly failed to connect on. :oldlol:

Shaq 'most dominant/biggest/strongest of his era' failed to win a title in, get this, FIFTEEN seasons, fifteen years of being a total loser. Some physical force he was right? Also, never won a rebounding title, ever, and he's bigger than everybody he played against. 10.7rpg average for career for a 340lb 'dominant' center. And fifteen seasons of choking. :oldlol:


/Wiltcriticlogic
No we are critical because Wilt only won 2 rings. I have never seen anyone use this "failed season" thing other than jlauber after I bring up rings.

[moe94]

I don't get why people here feel this weird need to bash older players, especially someone like Wilt. It's the "I didn't see it personally, so it couldn't have been that great" bullshit that permeates everything.

Well, there is footage, stats and hearsay to go on. Most people here haven't even seen Kareem, much less Wilt. Even if they never saw him play, they want to discuss it with people who may have in order to get real incites. I'm being overtly optimistic, of course.