Unpopular Basketball opinions thread

[Solefade]

no hate ITT just opinions

I'll start:



CP3 was never the best PG in the league at any point.

[Black and White]

James Harden is not a superstar

[Riley Martin]

Blake Griffin isn't terrible.

[moe94]

There is a difference between having an unpopular opinion and saying something completely asinine purely for controversy.

When you cannot even begin to defend your argument, it's stupid.

[Riley Martin]

LeBron James is rather boring to watch most of the time.

[Solefade]

There is a difference between having an unpopular opinion and saying something completely asinine purely for controversy.

When you cannot even begin to defend your argument, it's stupid.

Which of these opinions stick out to you as asinine? everything above seems pretty debatable :confusedshrug:

[MJistheGOAT]

Kevin Love isnt only empty stats

[Pushxx]

LeBron James is rather boring to watch most of the time.

LeBron and Durant are on their own level right now, and I give the edge to LeBron.

But I agree: Durant is more enjoyeable to watch. I enjoyed watching LeBron a lot more in Cleveland. For such a stacked team, Miami is not that fun to watch.

[Solefade]

Westbrook and Rondo are the best PGs in the league.

[Black and White]

Deron Williams is not a max contract player

[Solefade]

Deron Williams is not a max contract player

not really unpopular IMO lol

[Pushxx]

Westbrook and Rondo are the best PGs in the league.

Good one. Healthy Rose, Westbrook, and Rondo > CP3 and working ankles Deron.

[The Real JW]

Magic > Bird

[Solefade]

LeBron would smash on MJ 1v1 :pimp:

[moe94]

Which of these opinions stick out to you as asinine? everything above seems pretty debatable :confusedshrug:

There's no debate to be had on the OP.

Try it, for comedic purposes. Defend it.

[kshutts1]

Jordan is not the GOAT.
Durant is the second best player. Not first, not third, and he has no valid argument for any spot but #2.
Kobe, even as my favorite player, is no longer a superstar. He's just a name, now. (injury aside)

[Raymone]

A woman's ass/tits can be too large, to the point of being unattractive.

[Solefade]

There's no debate to be had on the OP.

Try it, for comedic purposes. Defend it.

CP3's best years were in NO, and during that time Deron Williams was arguably better (esp when you look at their head to head match-ups)

[outbreak]

A large number of the second tier stars are more a product of circumstances rather than actually being more skilled than other players in the league. A lot of them just got lucky landing a team that liked them and let them take a bunch of shots and ran plays for them and now they are considered stars and continue to get such treatment. Additionally there's a number of players riding benches or playing a set role due to what the coach has asked who could be stars if giving free reign. Look at Afflalo this season, not saying he's a star, but he said that in Detroit and Denver he was told that the other guys on his team needed to get their looks before him and now in Orlando this year he's been pushed to take his shots and create for himself and look at the improvement. If he was a rookie getting that treatment he would be talked up and eventually the media would turn him into one of these second level "stars".

[moe94]

CP3's best years were in NO, and during that time Deron Williams was arguably better (esp when you look at their head to head match-ups)

Paul was UNARGUABLY the best PG from 08-10. He was clearly the best PG this year, as well. Are you saying his first team selections mean nothing? Are you saying his stats mean nothing? Are you saying he's not the most complete PG in the NBA? I get the fact that people hate on dude but let's be serious here. There is zero argument and if it really rests on Deron beating him head to head, the list of players better than others will make your god damn head spin.

[zoom17]

James Harden is not a superstar

that's not unpopular:oldlol:

[Black and White]

Penny Hardaway would be a top 2 player if he played today

[moe94]

Penny Hardaway would be a top 2 player if he played today
:biggums:

[L.A. Jazz]

Kobe, even as my favorite player, is no longer a superstar. He's just a name, now. (injury aside)
Kobe will never be the Kobe of old again, just old Kobe
BUT
he is still a superstar.

[Jameerthefear]

A large number of the second tier stars are more a product of circumstances rather than actually being more skilled than other players in the league. A lot of them just got lucky landing a team that liked them and let them take a bunch of shots and ran plays for them and now they are considered stars and continue to get such treatment. Additionally there's a number of players riding benches or playing a set role due to what the coach has asked who could be stars if giving free reign. Look at Afflalo this season, not saying he's a star, but he said that in Detroit and Denver he was told that the other guys on his team needed to get their looks before him and now in Orlando this year he's been pushed to take his shots and create for himself and look at the improvement. If he was a rookie getting that treatment he would be talked up and eventually the media would turn him into one of these second level "stars".
:applause:

[SHABBA]

Playoff Rondo is the best PG. At least, pre-injury.

[zoom17]

Paul George would never be as good as Prime T-mac

[Solefade]

Paul was UNARGUABLY the best PG from 08-10. He was clearly the best PG this year, as well. Are you saying his first team selections mean nothing? Are you saying his stats mean nothing? Are you saying he's not the most complete PG in the NBA? I get the fact that people hate on dude but let's be serious here. There is zero argument and if it really rests on Deron beating him head to head, the list of players better than others will make your god damn head spin.

08 was probably Paul's best season, he has has Deron there for sure. Stats were pretty similar especially in the playoffs (aside from steals) but really all of this is close enough to be arguable. Only thing is Deron has had more playoff success. Guess you can call Deron the Tom Brady of PGs and CP3 the Peyton Manning :pimp:

[moe94]

08 was probably Paul's best season, he has has Deron there for sure. Stats were pretty similar especially in the playoffs (aside from steals) but really all of this is close enough to be arguable. Only thing is Deron has had more playoff success. Guess you can call Deron the Tom Brady of PGs and CP3 the Peyton Manning :pimp:

Deron really fell off. Poor dude. At his best, he's still the second best PG in the league. What the hell happened there? Were injuries that bad? People talking about he was a product of a system. The system made him shoot that well. The system provided him the ability to break down any defender and drop everyone. The system made him a large PG who imposed his will. :coleman:

I miss the real D-Will.

[Mr Exlax]

If Melo is the leader of your team, your team won't succeed.

[no pun intended]

Amar'e Stoudemire will average at least 20 PPG again.

[atljonesbro]

If Melo is the leader of your team, your team won't succeed.
do you honestly think this is an unpopular opinion? :roll:

[imdaman99]

Knicks get no calls.

[cos88]

jonas val will be out of this league by the time he's 26

[red1]

no hate ITT just opinions

I'll start:



CP3 was never the best PG in the league at any point.
wow you just exposed yourself as someone who just recently started watching

[Solefade]

wow you just exposed yourself as someone who just recently started watching

Deron Williams says otherwise :confusedshrug:

[red1]

Deron Williams says otherwise :confusedshrug:
No man hindsight makes it even more clear who the better player was. You really trying to say you'd take dwill over cp3

[Solefade]

No man hindsight makes it even more clear who the better player was. You really trying to say you'd take dwill over cp3


that's why it's in an unpopular opinions thread.

I think Deron was better in his prime years in Utah.

If people can say KD is better than Lebron, why is it so asinine that I say Deron was better during those years?

[Lebron23]

Deron is product of the Jerry Sloan system

Wilkins would be a top 5 NBA player today.

[red1]

that's why it's in an unpopular opinions thread.

I think Deron was better in his prime years in Utah.

If people can say KD is better than Lebron, why is it so asinine that I say Deron was better during those years?
true enough. I just want to let you know that your opinion is not only unpopular it is also wrong :oldlol:

[Solefade]

true enough. I just want to let you know that your opinion is not only unpopular it is also wrong :oldlol:


yeah yeah :rolleyes:

[Legends66NBA7]

There's not such thing as equal players. Equal players would mean equal results of impact, but there's really no player who can be equal to another.

Two-way players are not superior to a player that might lack in a particular category, whether it's offense or defense. This is why basketball (as well many sports) become so interesting. You can have so many ways that a player can be dominant, that there's isn't one particular style that can be heavily relied to outplay another.

The Hawks, not the Knicks or Bucks, are the worst franchise in NBA in terms of playoff futility.

There is no sophisticated era that all-time great players can't overcome.



Can't think of anymore specific ones right now.

[CeltsGarlic]

Josh MacRoberts is a top 7 PF

[Mr. Jabbar]

vince carter is a choker

[Suckafree]

If there was a 2 on 2 All time NBA tournament, Lebron and Durant would take it out no matter what combinations they come up against.

[Lebron23]

vince carter is a choker

He showed some heart against Iverson's sixers in the 2001 NBA Playoffs.

[TaLvsCuaL]

Calderon is not bad defender

[zoom17]

Kevin love could be a first option on many Teams

[Mr. Jabbar]

He showed some heart against Iverson's sixers in the 2001 NBA Playoffs.

well, its an unpopular opinion

[andremiller07]

Taj Gibson given 30+ mins a game is a top 10 PF.

Chris Singleton could be a top 5 defender in the NBA if he was injury free.

Trevor Booker is better than Faried.

[moe94]

Taj Gibson given 30+ mins a game is a top 10 PF.

Chris Singleton could be a top 5 defender in the NBA if he was injury free.

Trevor Booker is better than Faried.

Most of your opinions are unpopular. :coleman:

[MJistheGOAT]

Derrick Rose is the worst MVP in NBA history

[toooo]

Lebron and Miami are not fun to watch. Boring TBH.

[VIntageNOvel]

lebron is clutch

[Young X]

Individual offense and defense are not equal, you can play perfect defense and get torched but you can't play perfect offense and get shut down. If they were equal someone like Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace would be better than someone like Charles Barkley.

It's no coincidence that the top 10 players every season are mostly the best offensive players, it's no coincidence that the best offensive players are mostly the top 5 MVP candidates/winners. Defense is total team effort where everybody on a team has to be on the same page, offensively one player can dominate games by himself.

[knicksman]

Jordan is not the GOAT.
Durant is the second best player. Not first, not third, and he has no valid argument for any spot but #2.
Kobe, even as my favorite player, is no longer a superstar. He's just a name, now. (injury aside)

too bad that 2nd could end up the 2nd GOAT

[Solefade]

following a favorite player does not equal bandwagoning

[MavsSuperFan]

My bad thought this was OTC for some reason

[MavsSuperFan]

Individual offense and defense are not equal, you can play perfect defense and get torched but you can't play perfect offense and get shut down. If they were equal someone like Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace would be better than someone like Charles Barkley.

It's no coincidence that the top 10 players every season are mostly the best offensive players, it's no coincidence that the best offensive players are mostly the top 5 MVP candidates/winners. Defense is total team effort where everybody on a team has to be on the same page, offensively one player can dominate games by himself.
I don't think that's an unpopular opinion

[Marlo_Stanfield]

MJ is the 4th best player of all time and LeBron>MJ:confusedshrug:

[SpecialQue]

Shaq is probably the most overrated player of all time.

[ProfessorMurder]

Shaq is probably the most overrated player of all time.

I think Kobe is. Shaq is overrated, but at least he was a crazy, once in a generation freak. Kobe is just a photocopy of what we'd seen before.

[gin17]

in my mind, duncan is still a PF

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Wilt's legacy, while great, is perpetrated by myth and legend.

Oh and Kobe is the most overrated player, ever.

[gin17]

i think that if wilt was born to play in today's league, he could have been the GOAT given the modern technology and training

[Prometheus]

Bill Russell is the luckiest and most overrated basketball player of all time, has absolutely no business in GOAT conversations or top 10 all-time lists, and would be nothing more than a moderate upgrade form peak Ben Wallace if he played today.

[SpecialQue]

I think Kobe is. Shaq is overrated, but at least he was a crazy, once in a generation freak. Kobe is just a photocopy of what we'd seen before.

Kobe is definitely overrated to an extent (he will never be as good as Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc). I brought up Shaq in this thread because it's an unpopular opinions thread, and for some reason Shaq seems to get less criticism than even Jordan on this site. That's probably because of how obnoxious Kobe stans are.

[ProfessorMurder]

Kobe is definitely overrated to an extent (he will never be as good as Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc). I brought up Shaq in this thread because it's an unpopular opinions thread, and for some reason Shaq seems to get less criticism than even Jordan on this site. That's probably because of how obnoxious Kobe stans are.

Yeah, Shaq frustrated the hell out of me. He could've been THE BEST, but he didn't maximize his potential. Poor free throws, out of shape a lot of the time, diva, extracurricular activities, etc.

He had some very clear flaws that he was able to cover up with sheer size and strength.

[BasedTom]

Kobe Bryant is actually a good player and not a rapist.

[SpecialQue]

Yeah, Shaq frustrated the hell out of me. He could've been THE BEST, but he didn't maximize his potential. Poor free throws, out of shape a lot of the time, diva, extracurricular activities, etc.

He had some very clear flaws that he was able to cover up with sheer size and strength.

This right here. I remember reading either in The Last Season or in an interview where Phil said that Shaq found a way to shoot freethrows that actually worked every time, but didn't want to do it in-game because it looked "f@ggy" or some shit. Plus in doing research on the Lakers, a lot of the Kobe/Shaq feud seemed to be caused by Shaq's constant shit-talking, which as a Laker fan pisses me the fvck off because, really, those two guys should have been an even more dominant combo than Kareem and Magic. Unfortunately, Shaq's a childish douchebag and Kobe's a sociopath, so I guess I should be happy it lasted as long as it did.

[Milbuck]

James Harden is the worst thing to ever happen to sports.

EDIT: That might not be an unpopular opinion. Probably isn't.

[avonbarksdale]

-no one should give a shit about wilt chamberland, that was entirely an different game that it is today and there is no reason for anyone to be comparing what game he played to what kobe/mj/lebron etc played

-kobe is one of the best to ever do it no debate, as much as people complain about the kobetards on this site the ones that try to downplay his achievements are far worse, you simply cannot win 5 rings without being dominant i'm sorry it does not happen

-kevin love is an amazing player and generally there is no such thing as 'empty stats', while 1 person can carry a team it is still a team sport and his bad team is far more to blame than him, if he was on miami putting up those numbers he would be praised as a god

-dwight is probably the best centre in the league, #2 at worst, the hate for the guy is incredible, he brought a mediocre magic team to the nba finals, something 99% of the league could not do

[Audio One]

Shaq is probably the most overrated player of all time.

He's got nothing on Hakeem, as far as being the most overrated ever

[Pushxx]

you simply cannot win 5 rings without being dominant i'm sorry it does not happen

25 players have won 5+ championships, of which 7 are not in the Hall of Fame or won't be.

Only responded because that line bothered me. Just sayin'.

[ImKobe]

Shaq is probably the most overrated player of all time.

I don't know if this is unpopular, many fans believe this due to Shaq having no competition against the Centers of the Eastern Conference, there were only a handful of bigs that could bother Shaq to an extent, and even then he was able to put up decent numbers on high efficiency.

But people have been ranking him over Hakeem and Duncan since ever, but was he really better at anything than Hakeem? He certainly wasn't the better rebounder or the shot blocker, he couldn't anchor a defense like Hakeem could, he couldn't shoot the basketball, his post game wasn't all that great either. When a younger Shaq (I believe he was in his prime already) went up against Hakeem in the Finals while being the favorites, old ass Hakeem schooled him(33 12 6 with 2 spg 2 bpg), despite Shaq putting up good numbers himself. The series to me showed that while Shaq was the most dominant big man since Wilt/Kareem, he couldn't really shut down an elite player like Hakeem, he also couldn't shut down Duncan, who always had huge numbers going up against Shaq.

[T_L_P]

-Reggie Miller is one of the most overrated "stars" in NBA history.

He was incredibly efficient, and he was always a scoring threat, but it seemed like the only way he could succeed was with a million screens being set for him. The word high maintenance comes to mind

[aj1987]

Kobe Bryant is actually a good player and not a rapist.
That's not an unpopular opinion, bro. That is a fact. Even the hardcore LeBron stans/Kobe haters place Kobe in the top 15 (he's #8 IMO). You can't be a top 15 GOAT and be a bad basketball player.

[OmniStrife]

East / West format makes the NBA worse by 60% AT LEAST.
So much potential history and series will never be to that stupid system.

[Audio One]

I don't know if this is unpopular, many fans believe this due to Shaq having no competition against the Centers of the Eastern Conference, there were only a handful of bigs that could bother Shaq to an extent, and even then he was able to put up decent numbers on high efficiency.

But people have been ranking him over Hakeem and Duncan since ever, but was he really better at anything than Hakeem? He certainly wasn't the better rebounder or the shot blocker, he couldn't anchor a defense like Hakeem could, he couldn't shoot the basketball, his post game wasn't all that great either. When a younger Shaq (I believe he was in his prime already) went up against Hakeem in the Finals while being the favorites, old ass Hakeem schooled him(33 12 6 with 2 spg 2 bpg), despite Shaq putting up good numbers himself. The series to me showed that while Shaq was the most dominant big man since Wilt/Kareem, he couldn't really shut down an elite player like Hakeem, he also couldn't shut down Duncan, who always had huge numbers going up against Shaq.

And yet: 9 first round playoff exits, 1 missed playoffs in his prime, which include 4 sweeps, 6 blowouts, couldn't make an All-NBA first team during the ages of 27, 28, 29, can't win an MVP or ring before age 30, Brad Daugherty made the All-NBA Third team over him. He was a selfish headcase that faked injuries while missing the playoffs in his prime due to contract dispute (while the medical says there's nothing wrong him, BTW), threw his teammates and coaches under the bus, and only won when Jordan was gone and the three-point line was shortened for his shooters and floor-spacing. People like to say he won w/o anybody, yet disregard that he beat a New York team that was even worse than his, and he played with an All-Star and All-NBA level player in Otis Thorpe, a very good guard in Cassell, and clutch role players such as Robery Horry, and Mario Elie, whom Hakeem would be one less ring without if not for his 3 in '95 against Phoenix.

All of these supposed "skills" he has over Shaq, yet couldn't make it out of the first round more than half his career, yet he's better than Duncan and Shaquiile :kobe:

[russwest0]

Agreed with these:


LeBron James is rather boring to watch most of the time.

James Harden is not a superstar

CP3 was never the best PG in the league at any point.

To add one of my own:

The Houston Rockets lost the James Harden trade.

Reason: Should have chosen the young prospects (Lamb, and either Adams or Giannis) , plus the draft picks (trade Kevin Martin for a draft pick, the Mavs pick), plus the more cap space and higher draft position and tanked for a few years.

As it stands now the Houston Rockets are stuck in mediocrity trying to build around Harden.

[ImKobe]

And yet: 9 first round playoff exits, 1 missed playoffs in his prime, which include 4 sweeps, 6 blowouts, couldn't make an All-NBA first team during the ages of 27, 28, 29, can't win an MVP or ring before age 30, Brad Daugherty made the All-NBA Third team over him. He was a selfish headcase that faked injuries while missing the playoffs in his prime due to contract dispute (while the medical says there's nothing wrong him, BTW), threw his teammates and coaches under the bus, and only won when Jordan was gone and the three-point line was shortened for his shooters and floor-spacing. People like to say he won w/o anybody, yet disregard that he beat a New York team that was even worse than his, and he played with an All-Star and All-NBA level player in Otis Thorpe, a very good guard in Cassell, and clutch role players such as Robery Horry, and Mario Elie, whom Hakeem would be one less ring without if not for his 3 in '95 against Phoenix.

All of these supposed "skills" he has over Shaq, yet couldn't make it out of the first round more than half his career, yet he's better than Duncan and Shaquiile :kobe:

Hakeem led a team filled with average players to a title in 94 and had Drexler and swept Shaq, Penny & Horace Grant in 95 at 32 years old

:biggums:

The majority of the time he missed the Playoffs/ was a 1st round exit was when he turned 35, when he no longer was an elite player and when he only played 37 games in Toronto.

[Audio One]

Hakeem led a team filled with average players to a title in 94 and had Drexler and swept Shaq, Penny & Horace Grant in 95 at 32 years old

:biggums:

The majority of the time he missed the Playoffs/ was a 1st round exit was when he turned 35, when he no longer was an elite player and when he only played 37 games in Toronto.

You mean THIS series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVYob04jjxk


And if he had won a championship that year, you "Dream" ******gers would be adding that trophy to his ring total; can't have it both ways :no:

[ImKobe]

And if he had won a championship that year, you "Dream" ******gers would be adding that trophy to his ring total; can't have it both ways :no:

:biggums:

I have no idea what your post is about, but I'll just add in more in regards to Shaq & Hakeem:

1) Who was the best player that Hakeem played with? Are Clyde Drexler/Ralph Sampson/Horry/out of prime Barkley on the same level as prime Penny/Kobe/Wade/Nash/Lebron/Allen/KG/Pierce? :oldlol:
2) Who coached the 93-95 Rockets, when Hakeem carried average players to b2b titles? Rudy T? Who was Shaq's coach when he won his 4 titles? Oh, it was Phil Jackson and Pat Riley.
3) When Shaq joined the Lakers and they had 3-4 all-stars from 97-99, they got swept twice in the Playoffs. Shaq also failed to win a title in 04 with Phil,Kobe,Malone,Payton on his side, nearly getting swept(if it wasn't for Kobe's 3 to get it to OT) in the Finals while being the clear cut favorites.

[andremiller07]

The C position is actually going to be really good in 2-4 years and is currently underrated .

Trevor Booker is better than Faried and a lot of the undersized starting PF's are garbage and should be bench players.

[Fowl]

Carmelo Anthony could of been Top 5 GOAT if put in the right situation.

[ImKobe]

do u think that peak hakeem>peak shaq

It's arguable, but it depends on what you define as a peak in Hakeem's case. And do you just base it on averages or what they did for their team to win?

2000-2002 Shaq was unstoppable, there wasn't a single player in the league who could have stopped him from getting 30 and 12 a game.

In terms of skillsets, I think Hakeem is far more skilled than Shaq ever was, I only saw the older version of Hakeem play in the late 90s, but I've watched some of his games from the mid-90s and there's no way any other big could do what he did. He had the whole package.

Though I grew up a Laker fan in the Shaq-Kobe era, I can't just put Shaq above Hakeem as a player without looking at the numbers, the context, the players they played with. If I started a franchise and I had to choose between prime Shaq/Hakeem, I'd go with Hakeem, because he's a better defensive player and a rebounder, and I can rely on him in crunch time.

[PsychoBe]

It's arguable, but it depends on what you define as a peak in Hakeem's case. And do you just base it on averages or what they did for their team to win?

2000-2002 Shaq was unstoppable, there wasn't a single player in the league who could have stopped him from getting 30 and 12 a game.

In terms of skillsets, I think Hakeem is far more skilled than Shaq ever was, I only saw the older version of Hakeem play in the late 90s, but I've watched some of his games from the mid-90s and there's no way any other big could do what he did. He had the whole package.

Though I grew up a Laker fan in the Shaq-Kobe era, I can't just put Shaq above Hakeem as a player without looking at the numbers, the context, the players they played with. If I started a franchise and I had to choose between prime Shaq/Hakeem, I'd go with Hakeem, because he's a better defensive player and a rebounder, and I can rely on him in crunch time.

hakeem doesnt need an elite perimeter player to succeed.

[Audio One]

:biggums:

I have no idea what your post is about, but I'll just add in more in regards to Shaq & Hakeem:

1) Who was the best player that Hakeem played with? Are Clyde Drexler/Ralph Sampson/Horry/out of prime Barkley on the same level as prime Penny/Kobe/Wade/Nash/Lebron/Allen/KG/Pierce? :oldlol:
2) Who coached the 93-95 Rockets, when Hakeem carried average players to b2b titles? Rudy T? Who was Shaq's coach when he won his 4 titles? Oh, it was Phil Jackson and Pat Riley.
3) When Shaq joined the Lakers and they had 3-4 all-stars from 97-99, they got swept twice in the Playoffs. Shaq also failed to win a title in 04 with Phil,Kobe,Malone,Payton on his side, nearly getting swept(if it wasn't for Kobe's 3 to get it to OT) in the Finals while being the clear cut favorites.


I was talking about your reference to Nightmare's time in Toronto. Nightmare had the best collection of veteran talent aside from Mike in the 90's, and beat a Cinderella Knicks squad, that was even worse than his own team. Thorpe was better than anyone on that Knicks roster outside of Ewing, and Cassell had a much better career than anyone outside of Ewing. Nightmare's best games came in the losses in '94, and would've lost that series if not for Cassell's homerun in game 3. Only if Shaq had the luxury of not leading his team in a playoff series (let alone Finals series) in FG% while winning titles in the weakest stretch of talent since the merger, and with a shortened three point line :sleeping

And Houston was the better team than Orlando, even though they were favored, just like Oklahoma City was favored against Miami, even though Miami had the better team. Lemme tell you 2 things about NBA basketball so you can never say you never heard this.

In the NBA: youth is never served and defense wins championships. All of what you said though is really irrelevant. Nothing changes the fact that Oljawuon had to wait until Jordan left to get his titles, and couldn't make it past the first round more than half his career. The 90's Rockets = forever paper champions

[Audio One]

hakeem doesnt need an elite perimeter player to succeed.

You're right, he needs Jordan to be on vacation swinging at baseballs :applause:

[ImKobe]

I was talking about your reference to Nightmare's time in Toronto. Nightmare had the best collection of veteran talent aside from Mike in the 90's, and beat a Cinderella Knicks squad, that was even worse than his own team. Thorpe was better than anyone on that Knicks roster outside of Ewing, and Cassell had a much better career than anyone outside of Ewing. Nightmare's best games came in the losses in '94, and would've lost that series if not for Cassell's homerun in game 3. Only if Shaq had the luxury of not leading his team in a playoff series (let alone Finals series) in FG% while winning titles in the weakest stretch of talent since the merger, and with a shortened three point line :sleeping

And Houston was the better team than Orlando, even though they were favored, just like Oklahoma City was favored against Miami, even though Miami had the better team. Lemme tell you 2 things about NBA basketball so you can never say you never heard this.

In the NBA: youth is never served and defense wins championships. All of what you said though is really irrelevant. Nothing changes the fact that Oljawuon had to wait until Jordan left to get his titles, and couldn't make it past the first round more than half his career. The 90's Rockets = forever paper champions

Houston went to the Finals as underdogs, they were a 6th seed going into the Playoffs, no one expected them to repeat, much less make the Finals that year.

90's Rockets are legit champions, you do realize Orlando beat the hell out of the Bulls in the Playoffs with MJ playing his ass off and the same team got swept by the Rockets? You want to tell me the Rockets wouldn't have won against Chicago? Who would Chicago have used to stop Hakeem that year?

Hakeem, in the WCF went up against David Robinson, who won MVP that year and annihilated him, he averaged 35 13 5 with 4 blocks a game in that series to get the Rockets to the Finals.

Your arguments are filled with hyperboles, MJ got knocked out of the Playoffs in 95, which is a fact and you can spin it with the "oh he was away for 1 and a half year", but the fact is that MJ averaged 31 ppg on 48% shooting and the Bulls still didn't come close to winning that series against a team you said was worse than the Rockets.

[Audio One]

Houston went to the Finals as underdogs, they were a 6th seed going into the Playoffs, no one expected them to repeat, much less make the Finals that year.

90's Rockets are legit champions, you do realize Orlando beat the hell out of the Bulls in the Playoffs with MJ playing his ass off and the same team got swept by the Rockets? You want to tell me the Rockets wouldn't have won against Chicago? Who would Chicago have used to stop Hakeem that year?


Your arguments are filled with hyperboles, MJ got knocked out of the Playoffs in 95, which is a fact and you can spin it with the "oh he was away for 1 and a half year", but the fact is that MJ averaged 31 ppg on 48% shooting and the Bulls still didn't come close to winning that series against a team you said was worse than the Rockets.

And of course the only reason they were sixth seeds was 'cause of injuries, and Drexler wasn't acquired 'til after the AS break.

And saying that series wasn't close is just being intellectually dishonest. Well, either that or you didn't watch those games. The Bulls scored over 6 games only 5 points less than the Magic; that was a close series and far away from "not coming close". In game 1 Jordan forced a lot of bad turnovers by actually trying to be more a playmaker, which failed, because the chemistry needed wasn't really there. He also missed a couple of shots he usually made. That happens as well.

You really expect players to be in peak basketball shape and playoff-ready after 8 preseason games on opening night? Really? I'm not. I assume that teams will develop over time to become better and better at executing the plays, increasing the chemistry as well. What Jordan lacked in that playoff run of 1995 was the feel for his teammates; he made stupid turnovers, because he expected his teammates in positions where they weren't. His team defense looked worse, because he still gambled for steals as if Horace Grant was at the 4 spot and not Toni Kukoc. That he was able to adapt to that was seen during the next 3 seasons.

Of course, we saw what happened the very next year: SEVENTY-TWO GAMES WON, on a dominating world title run, while Hakeem gets swept out the playoffs, AGAIN

http://thegboatdotnet.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/8p10n.gif%3Fw%3D479

[Marlo_Stanfield]

And of course the only reason they were sixth seeds was 'cause of injuries, and Drexler wasn't acquired 'til after the AS break.

And saying that series wasn't close is just being intellectually dishonest. Well, either that or you didn't watch those games. The Bulls scored over 6 games only 5 points less than the Magic; that was a close series and far away from "not coming close". In game 1 Jordan forced a lot of bad turnovers by actually trying to be more a playmaker, which failed, because the chemistry needed wasn't really there. He also missed a couple of shots he usually made. That happens as well.

You really expect players to be in peak basketball shape and playoff-ready after 8 preseason games on opening night? Really? I'm not. I assume that teams will develop over time to become better and better at executing the plays, increasing the chemistry as well. What Jordan lacked in that playoff run of 1995 was the feel for his teammates; he made stupid turnovers, because he expected his teammates in positions where they weren't. His team defense looked worse, because he still gambled for steals as if Horace Grant was at the 4 spot and not Toni Kukoc. That he was able to adapt to that was seen during the next 3 seasons.

Of course, we saw what happened the very next year: SEVENTY-TWO GAMES WON, on a dominating world title run, while Hakeem gets swept out the playoffs, AGAIN

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Nicolas-Cage-Trying-to-hold-in-laughter.gif
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[East_Stone_Ya]

Rose didn't deserve the MVP :rant

[Audio One]

Why people choose Nightmare over the Fundamental and Diesel baffles me. Duncan and O'Neal are both efficient, unselfish scorers, that makes people around them better. Hakeem's a blackhole, that can't pass, and is a chucker that'll just get you traveling violations. All those fancy moves, yet he could only score 20 points a game, and has more career turnovers :oldlol:

[JohnFreeman]

Rose didn't deserve the MVP :rant
Thought this was common knowledge?

[ImKobe]

And of course the only reason they were sixth seeds was 'cause of injuries, and Drexler wasn't acquired 'til after the AS break.

And saying that series wasn't close is just being intellectually dishonest. Well, either that or you didn't watch those games. The Bulls scored over 6 games only 5 points less than the Magic; that was a close series and far away from "not coming close". In game 1 Jordan forced a lot of bad turnovers by actually trying to be more a playmaker, which failed, because the chemistry needed wasn't really there. He also missed a couple of shots he usually made. That happens as well.

You really expect players to be in peak basketball shape and playoff-ready after 8 preseason games on opening night? Really? I'm not. I assume that teams will develop over time to become better and better at executing the plays, increasing the chemistry as well. What Jordan lacked in that playoff run of 1995 was the feel for his teammates; he made stupid turnovers, because he expected his teammates in positions where they weren't. His team defense looked worse, because he still gambled for steals as if Horace Grant was at the 4 spot and not Toni Kukoc. That he was able to adapt to that was seen during the next 3 seasons.

Of course, we saw what happened the very next year: SEVENTY-TWO GAMES WON, on a dominating world title run, while Hakeem gets swept out the playoffs, AGAIN

http://thegboatdotnet.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/8p10n.gif%3Fw%3D479

You do realize the team that Hakeem lost against Seattle, the team that MJ had his worst Finals series against? The Sonics were just that much better while Rockets were old and fatigued, and were a 5th seed. Houston was garbage outside Hakeem and Drexler, and they were 34 & 33 years old.

While MJ was more turnover prone, the Bulls even lost when he had 39 points and 0 turnovers. They weren't going to stop Orlando without Rodman, who averaged 12 and 16 against the Magic the following year, when they swept them.

[ImKobe]

Why people choose Nightmare over the Fundamental and Diesel baffles me. Duncan and O'Neal are both efficient, unselfish scorers, that makes people around them better. Hakeem's a blackhole, that can't pass, and is a chucker that'll just get you traveling violations. All those fancy moves, yet he could only score 20 points a game, and has more career turnovers :oldlol:

Seriously, you should stop posting :oldlol:

[JohnFreeman]

Why people choose Nightmare over the Fundamental and Diesel baffles me. Duncan and O'Neal are both efficient, unselfish scorers, that makes people around them better. Hakeem's a blackhole, that can't pass, and is a chucker that'll just get you traveling violations. All those fancy moves, yet he could only score 20 points a game, and has more career turnovers :oldlol:
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BEjouZKCUAA25dM.jpg:large

[joeyjoejoe]

Kobe is not on top ten alltime

Refs were never going to let utah beat the bulls

Marion was the 2nd most important player for Dallas in their title run

[JohnFreeman]

Kobe is not on top ten alltime

Refs were never going to let utah beat the bulls

Marion was the 2nd most important player for Dallas in their title run
Common knowledge

[Reggie43]

Rik Smits was a better player than Yao Ming.

[Lebron23]

Shaq deserves the MVP Award over Robinson in 1995, and Nash in 2005.

[JohnFreeman]

Kobe didn't deserve the MVP

[Lebron23]

Lebron should have been the MVP in 2006. Nash Suns won 54 games while Lebron cavs won 50 games. LBj also had the better overall statsline, and the cavs were 23-7 against the west.

[poido123]

Rose didn't deserve the MVP :rant


On judging MVP criteria? He was.

You can debate whether you personally believe he was the best player or not, but based on team record and producing MVP stats and performances, he measured up to how an MVP is judged.

If we were to base it purely on the best player in a given year? Then I could name a number of players who should of won the award. But it isn't only judged on that, it's team success and individual that comes into it.

[poido123]

Back on topic, the league still has corrupt refs and corruption still exists influencing, but not fixing games...

Just my opinion, and I don't let that affect my enjoyment of watching NBA games in general...:D

[russwest0]

Back on topic, the league still has corrupt refs and corruption still exists influencing, but not fixing games...

Just my opinion, and I don't let that affect my enjoyment of watching NBA games in general...:D

I think some refs occasionally fix games and it definitely affects the outcome.

[JohnFreeman]

Back on topic, the league still has corrupt refs and corruption still exists influencing, but not fixing games...

Just my opinion, and I don't let that affect my enjoyment of watching NBA games in general...:D
I think bias comes into affect more than fixing. I have a feeling some refs hate some teams more than others.

[russwest0]

I think bias comes into affect more than fixing. I have a feeling some refs hate some teams more than others.

Here is the best example of blatant ref fixing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nyu69Oj1q4

(Worth a good watch for anyone who seriously doubts this isn't a problem in this league)

Detroit still won, but it wasn't without an insane amount of late game BS to cover the point spread for the refs who had bets on Miami. This is a playoff game too, mind you. The Heat scored 17 points in the final minute and a half.

[Wally450]

Rondo is a top 3 PG in the NBA

[JohnFreeman]

Here is the best example of blatant ref fixing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nyu69Oj1q4

(Worth a good watch for anyone who seriously doubts this isn't a problem in this league)

Detroit still won, but it wasn't without an insane amount of late game BS to cover the point spread for the refs who had bets on Miami. This is a playoff game too, mind you. The Heat scored 17 points in the final minute and a half.
I agree it happens. Sacramento v lakers :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk is Top 15 All Time.

I honestly would like to put Russell out of the Top 10....
15 ppg on 44%? 16 ppg on 43%? (playoffs)

Someone who's a complete bum on one side of the ball, doesn't deserve a top 5 spot, top 10=critical...

[PsychoBe]

david stern didn't care about black people.

[CelticBaller]

Wilt is overrated

[JohnFreeman]

Dirk is Top 15 All Time.

I honestly would like to put Russell out of the Top 10....
15 ppg on 44%? 16 ppg on 43%? (playoffs)

Someone who's a complete bum on one side of the ball, doesn't deserve a top 5 spot, top 10=critical...
That is unpopular, I will give you that :oldlol:

[JohnFreeman]

Wilt is overrated
I thought this was popular opinion? :oldlol:

[CelticBaller]

I thought this was popular opinion? :oldlol:
Nope, Check all of the ranking threads, they always have this due in the top 5

[JohnFreeman]

Nope, Check all of the ranking threads, they always have this due in the top 5
I would take prime Garnett over Wilt any day

[SilkkTheShocker]

-Kobe was never the next best player in the NBA
-Bill Russell was nowhere near as good as Shaq, Kareem, etc. Weak era
- Barkley was too much of a loser to ever win titles. He was lazy, locker room malcontent
-Duncan never gets blamed for anything. Same with Tony Parker
- David Stern is the best thing to ever happen to the NBA
- The 08 Celtics are the most overrated title team in NBA history. Always compared to the greats, despite getting taken to 7 games by Atlanta, almost losing to an untalented Cleveland team, and playing an injured Lakers team.
-Dirk>>>>>>.KG
-2012 LeBron>>>2009 LeBron
-Kobe has no significant playoff games or memories.

[Solefade]

-Kobe has no significant playoff games or memories.


I agree :cheers:

[HOoopCityJones]

Lebron would be ringless if he didn't form a miniature All-Star Team.

[Solefade]

Lebron would be ringless if he didn't form a miniature All-Star Team.


Kobe wouldn't have won any of his rings if he didn't have the best front court in any of his championship seasons :confusedshrug:

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe wouldn't have won any of his rings if he didn't have the best front court in any of his championship seasons :confusedshrug:

You weren't calling a Gasol-Odom the best frontcourt til you decided you hate Kobe though. :lol

[Solefade]

You weren't calling a Gasol-Odom the best frontcourt til you decided you hate Kobe though. :lol


i don't hate kobe, i really like him actually


i just hate his retarded ass fans

[HOoopCityJones]

i don't hate kobe, i really like him actually


i just hate his retarded ass fans

Who cares? :confusedshrug:

[VelvetHoop]

Carmelo Anthony could of been Top 5 GOAT if put in the right situation.


I think that if Melo would have been drafted by the Pistons instead of the Nuggets we would have a VERY different view of him at this point.

[Tarik One]

I believe Track McGrady can beat Michael Jordan decisively in a game of one-on-one.

The Bulls would NOT have continued to win consecutive titles if Jordan hadn't retired. Horace Grant was out the door regardless.

[I.R.Beast]

LeBron James is rather boring to watch most of the time.
he is boring to to watch

[fpliii]

1) Don't keep a GOAT list, but it's strange how everybody simultaneously decided Oscar isn't a top 10 player, and now the same shit is happening with Hakeem.

2) Bird>Magic by a mile.

3) I don't think you can contend for a championship if your best offensive player relies on driving or easy baskets (transition, finishing, etc.).

[Demitri98]

Kareem > Jordan

CP3 is overrated

The Rockets will never win a championship with the Harden/Dwight core

Kobe > Shaq

The only reason the Spurs are good is because of Pop

[HOoopCityJones]

Kareem > Jordan

CP3 is overrated

The Rockets will never win a championship with the Harden/Dwight core

Kobe > Shaq

The only reason the Spurs are good is because of Pop

:roll:

[T.O.RapsJays]

Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwight Howard are underrated. Melo is a great scorer and rebounder for the position. Bosh was probably always underrated by playing for the Raptors on awful teams, now some people even think he's expendable. Dwight, with all of his attitude issues, is still one of the best bigmen in the game (probably not the best currently but on some days he looks like it).

[SpecialQue]

Kareem > Jordan

CP3 is overrated

The Rockets will never win a championship with the Harden/Dwight core

Kobe > Shaq

The only reason the Spurs are good is because of Pop

Niiiiice. :applause: