Lebron's Cavs vs. Iverson's Sixers

[SpecialQue]

1) Who did more with less?
2) Let's say they meet in the Conference Finals. Who wins?

[moe94]

Iverson had a great defensive squad and a great coach. LeBron had marginal spot up shooters and a decaying Z?

[Solefade]

Iverson had the better version of Eric Snow and Larry Hughes

[SilkkTheShocker]

1. LeBron easily
2. Cavs would win because LeBron is a lot better than Iverson ever was.

[LeBron 06]

1) Who did more with less?


LeBron


The cavs had 4 seasons with at least 50 wins and two seasons with at least 60 wins...The 76ers have only had one season with at least 50 wins

[Element]

LeBron didn't have a great cast? Offensively, they weren't built for playoff basketball but the Cavs got all those regular season wins because of their near top-ranked rebounding and defense. And LeBron definitely wasn't anchoring those parts of their game. In fact, they were a top defensive team in the league before bron himself even became a good defensive player (2007).

Iverson did more with less for sure. DPOY Mutombo adds name value, yeah, but they were on pace for the same amount of wins before the trade and their defense didn't really improve after it, either. Offensively, they were probably even better off with Ratliff. Sixers offense was designed to get this guy as many shots as possible and everyone else just fed off that.

LeBron's Cavs will win though. Mo Williams, Delonte West>>McKie and Mutombo

[Indian guy]

This is not much of a comparison. LeBron probably did more with less in '09 and '10 than anyone in NBA history.

[tmacattack33]

LeBron didn't have a great cast? Offensively, they weren't built for playoff basketball but the Cavs got all those regular season wins because of their near top-ranked rebounding and defense. And LeBron definitely wasn't anchoring those parts of their game. In fact, they were a top defensive team in the league before bron himself even became a good defensive player (2007).

Iverson did more with less for sure. DPOY Mutombo adds name value, yeah, but they were on pace for the same amount of wins before the trade and their defense didn't really improve after it, either. Offensively, they were probably even better off with Ratliff. Sixers offense was designed to get this guy as many shots as possible and everyone else just fed off that.

LeBron's Cavs will win though. Mo Williams, Delonte West>>McKie and Mutombo

That is laughable for someone with an account on a basketball site.

[blood yes]

LeBron didn't have a great cast? Offensively, they weren't built for playoff basketball but the Cavs got all those regular season wins because of their near top-ranked rebounding and defense. And LeBron definitely wasn't anchoring those parts of their game. In fact, they were a top defensive team in the league before bron himself even became a good defensive player (2007).

Iverson did more with less for sure. DPOY Mutombo adds name value, yeah, but they were on pace for the same amount of wins before the trade and their defense didn't really improve after it, either. Offensively, they were probably even better off with Ratliff. Sixers offense was designed to get this guy as many shots as possible and everyone else just fed off that.

LeBron's Cavs will win though. Daniel Gibson<McKie and Mutombo

Fixed, Mo Williams wasnt on the cavs team in 07

[SamuraiSWISH]

This is not much of a comparison. LeBron probably did more with less in '09 and '10 than anyone in NBA history.
Regular Season or the Playoffs? Cause Jordan's '88, '89, '90 were superior. Quite obviously, especially considering LeBron's mid series quit job in 2010 as favorites.

[Element]

That is laughable for someone with an account on a basketball site.

Offensively? Mo Williams>>>>anyone on AI's team by a mile

Defense wasn't the 01 Sixers problem. It was the fact that no one other than AI even managed to break 15 ppg.

[aj1987]

1) Who did more with less?
2) Let's say they meet in the Conference Finals. Who wins?

1. Lebron
2. Who's stopping Lebron? Literally no one on that team is even close to stopping Lebron.

[tpols]

Offensively? Mo Williams>>>>anyone on AI's team by a mile

Defense wasn't the 01 Sixers problem. It was the fact that no one other than AI even managed to break 15 ppg.
Lebron also had the 3rd and 7th best defenses in the league behind him.. and one of the best rebounding teams in the league both years.

AI didnt have to go through a team like Boston though..

[tmacattack33]

Offensively? Mo Williams>>>>anyone on AI's team by a mile

Defense wasn't the 01 Sixers problem. It was the fact that no one other than AI even managed to break 15 ppg.

I see. I was talking overall.

[SilkkTheShocker]

LeBron took a team to the Finals with Sasha Pavlovic starting.

[tpols]

LeBron took a team to the Finals with Sasha Pavlovic starting.
Prolly wouldve been the best player on some of the teams he was facing

[IncarceratedBob]

Did LeBron even get a win in the Finals? The Spurs he faced were garbage compared to peak Shaqs Lakers

[moe94]

Prolly wouldve been the best player on some of the teams he was facing
Ether :bowdown:

[TheMarkMadsen]

1) Who did more with less?
2) Let's say they meet in the Conference Finals. Who wins?


Iverson considering he won a finals game, also Lebron in 2009 & 2010 had a better supporting cast than Iverson ever could have dreamed of having in Philly

Iverson took a team with Jumaine Jones, George Lynch & Tryone Hill as starters and led them to a finals..01 was easily Iversons best supporting cast

compare that to Lebron's best in Cleveland.

2001 76ers : Def rating (5th overall) Opponents points per game (5th overall) SRS (7th overall)

Leading contributors besides Iverson:

Theo Ratliff: 12/8 on 50%. PER: 16

Dikembe Mutombo: 12/12/3 on 50%. PER: 19.6

Aaron Mckie: 12/4/5 on 47%. PER: 15

Erick Snow: 10/3/7 on 42%. PER: 14


2009 Cavs: Def rating (3rd overall) Opponents points per game (1st overall) SRS (1st overall)

Leading contributors besides Lebron

Mo Williams: 18/3/4 on 47%. PER: 17

Big Z: 13/8 on 47% PER: 18

Delonte West: 12/3/4 on 46%. PER: 14.1

Andy V: 9/7 on 54%. PER: 14.6


Iverson's top scoring guards other than himself combined for 22ppg while Lebrons back court combined or a little over 30ppg, with one of those players being an all star that year

Iverson had a better defensive anchor in Mutombo, however the Cavs depth at big men evens that out, as they were able to throw Big Z who was a better offensive player than Mutombo, and then throw a guy like Andy V at you, who was a better back up big than anybody on the 76ers, and even then they still had Ben Walllace who was a productive defensive player and still averaged 7rpg on around 20mpg. A young JJ Hickson was also buried on the bench. Lebron's teams were also better overall defensively.

[LeBron 06]

Iverson considering he won a finals game, also Lebron in 2009 & 2010 had a better supporting cast than Iverson ever could have dreamed of having in Philly

Iverson took a team with Jumaine Jones, George Lynch & Tryone Hill as starters and led them to a finals..01 was easily Iversons best supporting cast

compare that to Lebron's best in Cleveland.

2001 76ers : Def rating (5th overall) Opponents points per game (5th overall) SRS (7th overall)

Leading contributors besides Iverson:

Theo Ratliff: 12/8 on 50%. PER: 16

Dikembe Mutombo: 12/12/3 on 50%. PER: 19.6

Aaron Mckie: 12/4/5 on 47%. PER: 15

Erick Snow: 10/3/7 on 42%. PER: 14


2009 Cavs: Def rating (3rd overall) Opponents points per game (1st overall) SRS (1st overall)

Leading contributors besides Lebron

Mo Williams: 18/3/4 on 47%. PER: 17

Big Z: 13/8 on 47% PER: 18

Delonte West: 12/3/4 on 46%. PER: 14.1

Andy V: 9/7 on 54%. PER: 14.6


Iverson's top scoring guards other than himself combined for 22ppg while Lebrons back court combined or a little over 30ppg, with one of those players being an all star that year

Iverson had a better defensive anchor in Mutombo, however the Cavs depth at big men evens that out, as they were able to throw Big Z who was a better offensive player than Mutombo, and then throw a guy like Andy V at you, who was a better back up big than anybody on the 76ers. Lebron's teams were also better overall defensively.



Have you seen the series against the Magic????

The Cavs defense have given 103 points per games against the Magic and they were unable to defend the 3 points and Dwight Howard....It was awful to see....Mo Williams was awful in this series too

[TheMarkMadsen]

Have you seen the series against the Magic????

The Cavs defense have given 103 points per games against the Magic and they were unable to defend the 3 points and Dwight Howard....It was awful to see....Mo Williams was awful in this series too

The Cavs in 2009 were 1st in opponents points per game and 3rd in defensive rating.

The next year they were still a top 10 defense even after losing Ben Wallace

[LeBron 06]

The Cavs in 2009 were 1st in opponents points per game and 3rd in defensive rating.

The next year they were still a top 10 defense even after losing Ben Wallace


Yes, but they were not the best defense in the league...The defense have given 103 points per game against the Magic

The 76ers were better in defense in the playoffs in 2001

[atljonesbro]

God now people are making an argument that someone "won a game in the finals":roll: How desperate can you be?

[Element]

Yes, but they were not the best defense in the league...The defense have given 103 points per game against the Magic

The 76ers were better in defense in the playoffs in 2001

Maybe that had something to do with LeBron being hidden on Rafer Alston and doing nothing to stop Hedo and Rashard from lighting his ass up?

[OhNoTimNoSho]

1. lebron had a worse team. Iversons team wasnt good offensively but they were a good team.

2. I think the sixers would win. They had more heart, better defence, and they had iverson who was liable to drop 50 every other night

[LeBron 06]

Maybe that had something to do with LeBron being hidden on Rafer Alston and doing nothing to stop Hedo and Rashard from lighting his ass up?



It was not LeBron who guarded Lewis in this series......It was Varejeo

Alston and Hedo were very average in this series(Under 40% in this series), even if they were better than Mo Williams and Delonte West in this series..The cavs were not able to defend Howard in this series too

[DukeDelonte13]

Maybe that had something to do with LeBron being hidden on Rafer Alston and doing nothing to stop Hedo and Rashard from lighting his ass up?


That magic team was a terrible matchup for 95% of the NBA and that's why they got so far. Cavs didn't have the athleticism and length on the perimeter to contests those 3 pointers when they doubled howard, and they didn't have a player that could guard howard one on one.

the 2010 cavs acquired shaq, jamario moon, and anthony parker to help them match up better with the magic and lakers and in the reg season games they played i think the 2010 cavs swept the lakers and went 2-1 against the magic.

Too bad it didn't matter because of the epic meltdown against boston that was everyone but Lebron's fault. :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

That magic team was a terrible matchup for 95% of the NBA and that's why they got so far. Cavs didn't have the athleticism and length on the perimeter to contests those 3 pointers when they doubled howard, and they didn't have a player that could guard howard one on one.

the 2010 cavs acquired shaq, jamario moon, and anthony parker to help them match up better with the magic and lakers and in the reg season games they played i think the 2010 cavs swept the lakers and went 2-1 against the magic.

Too bad it didn't matter because of the epic meltdown against boston that was everyone but Lebron's fault. :oldlol:

:wtf:

[SilkkTheShocker]

LeBron>>>>>Kobe

[SilkkTheShocker]

God now people are making an argument that someone "won a game in the finals":roll: How desperate can you be?

Almost as funny as the dude using "heart" to say who would win a series.

[Bandito]

That magic team was a terrible matchup for 95% of the NBA and that's why they got so far. Cavs didn't have the athleticism and length on the perimeter to contests those 3 pointers when they doubled howard, and they didn't have a player that could guard howard one on one.

the 2010 cavs acquired shaq, jamario moon, and anthony parker to help them match up better with the magic and lakers and in the reg season games they played i think the 2010 cavs swept the lakers and went 2-1 against the magic.

Too bad it didn't matter because of the epic meltdown against boston that was everyone but Lebron's fault. :oldlol:
That was not a meltdown. The Celtics team was one win (and probably) one injury away from winning it all.

[aj1987]

Iverson considering he won a finals game, also Lebron in 2009 & 2010 had a better supporting cast than Iverson ever could have dreamed of having in Philly

Iverson took a team with Jumaine Jones, George Lynch & Tryone Hill as starters and led them to a finals..01 was easily Iversons best supporting cast

compare that to Lebron's best in Cleveland.

2001 76ers : Def rating (5th overall) Opponents points per game (5th overall) SRS (7th overall)

Leading contributors besides Iverson:

Theo Ratliff: 12/8 on 50%. PER: 16

Dikembe Mutombo: 12/12/3 on 50%. PER: 19.6

Aaron Mckie: 12/4/5 on 47%. PER: 15

Erick Snow: 10/3/7 on 42%. PER: 14


2009 Cavs: Def rating (3rd overall) Opponents points per game (1st overall) SRS (1st overall)

Leading contributors besides Lebron

Mo Williams: 18/3/4 on 47%. PER: 17

Big Z: 13/8 on 47% PER: 18

Delonte West: 12/3/4 on 46%. PER: 14.1

Andy V: 9/7 on 54%. PER: 14.6


Iverson's top scoring guards other than himself combined for 22ppg while Lebrons back court combined or a little over 30ppg, with one of those players being an all star that year

Iverson had a better defensive anchor in Mutombo, however the Cavs depth at big men evens that out, as they were able to throw Big Z who was a better offensive player than Mutombo, and then throw a guy like Andy V at you, who was a better back up big than anybody on the 76ers, and even then they still had Ben Walllace who was a productive defensive player and still averaged 7rpg on around 20mpg. A young JJ Hickson was also buried on the bench. Lebron's teams were also better overall defensively.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9182963&postcount=123



About time someone said it.

I am bookmarking this thread because its the perfect thread to shore up my ignore list. Kobe was great in 03. LeBron had one of the best seasons in my lifetime; and yes, I was around during MJs entire run.

In the 900 minutes LeBron was on the bench in the 08-09 season (about the length of a high school season) the Cavs were outscored by 137 points. Which equates to -7.3 ppg (or at least -7.3 points/48min). Extrapolated to a full season this puts them around the 3rd-5th worst team in the NBA with ~21-23 wins. When he was on the court the Cavs outscored their opponents by 869 points or +13.7 points/48 min (which, extrapolated to an entire season would be the best ever).

Think about that for just a moment. He took a bottom ~4 team in the league and won 66 games. Fewer than 10 teams in the history of the league have won more games than LeBron in 09 with his sack of misfit teammates.
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[LeBron 06]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9182963&postcount=123


:applause:

[secund2nun]

Maybe that had something to do with LeBron being hidden on Rafer Alston and doing nothing to stop Hedo and Rashard from lighting his ass up?

Or maybe it was because Cleveland had no talent.

Mo Williams was not on the 07 Cavs btw.

Lebron had much less help. AI is very overrated.

[TheMarkMadsen]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9182963&postcount=123


those type of advance stats are a joke. Just a month ago there was an ESPN article on how the HEAT were -10 with Lebron on the court and +10 with him on the bench.

there's not even a link in the original post, would be nice to see where those stats came and run them for the 01 76ers..

[aj1987]

those type of advance stats are a joke. Just a month ago there was an ESPN article on how the HEAT were -10 with Lebron on the court and +10 with him on the bench.

there's not even a link in the original post, would be nice to see where those stats came and run them for the 01 76ers..
Why are you talking about the '14 Heat though? Do you honestly believe that the '09 Cavs would've won more than 30 games without Lebron? That team went as far as Lebron took them and this is coming from the guy who thinks Wade should've won the MVP that season.

Oh, and Lebron is +4.7 according to NBA.COM (http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=2544).

Lets also not forget the fact the fact that Lebron's FGA's are the lowest ever (his career), while still scoring 25/7/7.

Why don't you just stop hating on the dude and just enjoy his greatness?

[Ai2death]

Or maybe it was because Cleveland had no talent.

Mo Williams was not on the 07 Cavs btw.

Lebron had much less help. AI is very overrated.

:facepalm If anything AI is severly underrated on this board.

That said, I believe Iverson did more with less,

But Lebron's team would beat Iverson's.
The 76'ers just would not be able to stop Lebron.

[Straight_Ballin]

Who did more with less? It's debatable, but what is not debatable is the fact that Iverson was 6'1, 165 lbs and shitted on the league getting MVP while bron was 6'8, 260 athletic freak getting his MVP.

Iverson did more with less gifted genetics.

[Ai2death]

Who did more with less? It's debatable, but what is not debatable is the fact that Iverson was only just 6'0, 165 lbs and shitted on the league getting MVP while bron was 6'8, 260 athletic freak getting his MVP.

Iverson did more with less gifted genetics.

:cheers:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Iverson won a game in the Finals. Lebron was swept by Tony Parker.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Iverson won a game in the Finals. Lebron was swept by Tony Parker.

Was that the game where he embarrassed Kobe?

[aj1987]

Iverson won a game in the Finals. Lebron was swept by Tony Parker.
And AI won a Finals game against Tyronn Lue.

[LeBron 06]

Iverson won a game in the Finals. Lebron was swept by Tony Parker.


The 76ers almost lost against the Toronto Raptors in 2001 too.....The Toronto Raptors!

[Deuce Bigalow]

And AI won a Finals game against the 11-0 Shaq and Kobe Lakers.
:applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

The 76ers almost lost against the Toronto Raptors in 2001 too.....The Toronto Raptors!
Lebron was swept

[SilkkTheShocker]

Pretty funny how vocal Kobe stans are on this topic. Dude couldn't even take a team with Odom and Caron Butler to the playoffs. He has no idea what its like carrying a crap team to a deep playoff run.

[Bigsmoke]

Lebron also had the 3rd and 7th best defenses in the league behind him.. and one of the best rebounding teams in the league both years.

AI didnt have to go through a team like Boston though..

how the Cav's defense held up after LeBron left.

the Sixers was a shitty defensive team in 06 with Iverson and was a dame near an elite defensive team with a full season without Iverson in 2008

[LeBron 06]

The cavs was not a good defensive team without LeBron in 2009

Defensive rating:100.6 with LeBron...108.8 without LeBron(in 900 minutes)

[Deuce Bigalow]

Pretty funny how vocal Kobe stans are on this topic. Dude couldn't even take a team with Odom and Caron Butler to the playoffs. He has no idea what its like carrying a crap team to a deep playoff run.
Cavs were a top defensive team, so they were far from crap. Lakers were a bottom defensive team.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Why are people still comparing Kobe with Lebron? :facepalm

That discussion ended last season.

[Deuce Bigalow]

07 Cavs 4th in Def rating.

ITT Lebron kids still thinking he took "scrubs" to the Finals :oldlol:

[aj1987]

Cavs were a top defensive team, so they were far from crap. Lakers were a bottom defensive team.
They were 7th, 7th, and 8th offensively though. Tell me why Kobe was All-D First team, again..

[veilside23]

I believe AI carried more with less.. based on the roster that reached the finals

lebron had

Z
drew gooden
damon jones
donyell marshall
sasha
daniel gibson
shannon brown ( benched)
Andy V
and a shell of larry hughes and eric snow


ai had

rookie rajabell
rodney buford
matt geiger
tyrone hill
jumaine jones
toni kukoc ( benched )
todd macculoch
vernon maxwell ( benched )
aaron mckie
kevin ollie
eric snow


so i dont know if that is more than what lebron had. Mike brown had a line up of gibson sasha/jones lebron marshall and Andy V. to support lebron with shooters so that when he drive he can kick it. for a 3 .

Ai had motombo on defense and mckie who sometimes makes or bricks a three. Eric snow was good but :confusedshrug:

Ai had to score 50 a game to win. Lebron had great 3 point shooters that compliments his game well. Like the miami heat now. But to be fair to lebron this was a young lebron james compared to a peak AI. We all not what LBH had and has right now after joining the heat.

[RedBlackAttack]

The cavs was not a good defensive team without LeBron in 2009

Defensive rating:100.6 with LeBron...108.8 without LeBron(in 900 minutes)
That is maybe the most useless statistic I've ever seen. The only times during that season where James sat out significant minutes were when the Cavs were destroying teams and they put the bench unit on the floor to mop things up.

You're seriously going to use those minutes to gauge how good that team was defensively? :oldlol:

That Cavs team had one of the very best team defenses in the league, period. James was a part of that... a pretty big part, actually. But, certainly not the sole reason.

The Cavs became an elite defensive team and an elite rebounding team the moment Mike Brown took over in 2005-06. Prior to that, not only were the Cavs not a good defensive team, LeBron James himself was a defensive liability.

That team was built around defense and rebounding... And, it largely worked until they had to go against the best of the best.

[SamuraiSWISH]

AI's 2001 NBA Finals game 1 is a superior performance than anything LeBron's done in the Finals that's for sure. A legendary game. Iverson had way more heart and squeezed more out of his god given abilities than LeBron.

[LeBron 06]

07 Cavs 4th in Def rating.

ITT Lebron kids still thinking he took "scrubs" to the Finals :oldlol:





The cavs had a 112.9 defensive rating with LeBron on the bench in the playoffs :lol




http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/on-off/2007/


:lol

[TheMarkMadsen]

They were 7th, 7th, and 8th offensively though. Tell me why Kobe was All-D First team, again..


because he was a great individual defender that year..

The cavs in 2007 were a 4th overall in defensive rating, tell me why Lebron wasn't on either of the all defensive teams, again..?

[RedBlackAttack]

The cavs had a 112.9 defensive rating with LeBron on the bench in the playoffs :lol




http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/on-off/2007/


:lol
You're an idiot if you seriously can't figure out why.

[SilkkTheShocker]

With Iverson all you get is "heart" and the "pound for pound" excuses.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The cavs had a 112.9 defensive rating with LeBron on the bench in the playoffs :lol




http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/on-off/2007/


:lol
Maybe because Lebron is a starter and starters usually are on the bench together for a while, ever thought of that?

:oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

With Iverson all you get is "heart" and the "pound for pound" excuses.
Yea, but heart / toughness speaks directly to intangibles LeBron never possessed.

[LeBron 06]

You're an idiot if you seriously can't figure out why.



The cavs was just a horrible team without LeBron

With the same roster the year after the cavs have been 0-5 or 0-6 at the beginning of season(November or december) when James was injured

[oh the horror]

Iverson did more with less. But lebrons cavs would beat them.

[hateraid]

I believe AI carried more with less.. based on the roster that reached the finals

lebron had

Z
drew gooden
damon jones
donyell marshall
sasha
daniel gibson
shannon brown ( benched)
Andy V
and a shell of larry hughes and eric snow


ai had

rookie rajabell
rodney buford
matt geiger
tyrone hill
jumaine jones
toni kukoc ( benched )
todd macculoch
vernon maxwell ( benched )
aaron mckie
kevin ollie
eric snow


so i dont know if that is more than what lebron had. Mike brown had a line up of gibson sasha/jones lebron marshall and Andy V. to support lebron with shooters so that when he drive he can kick it. for a 3 .

Ai had motombo on defense and mckie who sometimes makes or bricks a three. Eric snow was good but :confusedshrug:

Ai had to score 50 a game to win. Lebron had great 3 point shooters that compliments his game well. Like the miami heat now. But to be fair to lebron this was a young lebron james compared to a peak AI. We all not what LBH had and has right now after joining the heat.


You're clearly reaching this is a very bad assessment that's clearly agenda based.

AI's supporting cast was filled with award winners. DPOY, 6thMOY, COY.

Aaron McKie bricks 3's? Well if he took any yeah, but he was a scoring thrat off the bench with one of the best mid-range games. You had a steady PG, and a defensive beast in the middle, with another starting center to back him up. Plus another 6th man of the year on the bench. 01 Sixers were stacked. I should know, I watched them everyday including a few home games.

[RedBlackAttack]

The cavs was just a horrible team without LeBron

With the same roster the year after the cavs have been 0-5 or 0-6 at the beginning of season(November or december) when James was injured
16 posts and already in the red. Is this a record?

The Cavs were dressing something like 8 guys during the stretch of games you're talking about and were missing multiple starters.

And, even after James came back from injury, they went 2-3 over their next five games because so many other guys were out.

I actually, you know, watched the games. Always important in a discussion like this one.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Iverson had the DPOY, COY, and 6th Man of the year.

LeBron's second best players in the playoff run were a rookie Daniel Gibson and Varejao. Larry Hughes who already sucked balls even missed most of the Finals.


But Iverson CLEARLY had an inferior team :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

The cavs was just a horrible team without LeBron

With the same roster the year after the cavs have been 0-5 or 0-6 at the beginning of season(November or december) when James was injured

The Cavs also literally lost every game LeBron didn't play in during the end of the 2010 season. The Sixers went from being in the Durant/Oden sweepstakes to pushing for playoffs once Iverson was traded :oldlol:

[moe94]

But Iverson CLEARLY had an inferior team :oldlol:

Iverson carried a bunch of scrubs that included the likes of myself, Kid N Play, Squidward and Drake. Rise above the hate.

[RedBlackAttack]

The Cavs also literally lost every game LeBron didn't play in during the end of the 2010 season. The Sixers went from being in the Durant/Oden sweepstakes to pushing for playoffs once Iverson was traded :oldlol:
:oldlol:

Yeah, shockingly teams lose when Jamario Moon is playing 40 minutes a night and Sebastian Telfair is getting serious burn.

All of the starters either didn't play or were on seriously limited minutes during the stretch at the end of 2010. Why allow the facts to get in the way of a good story, I guess?

The Cavs actually beat the Spurs without James in the middle of the season when the other starters were playing their usual minutes.

[pauk]

1. Lebron
2. Lebron

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Only did Iverson did better was getting carried by the refs in the Bucks series that year.

[SilkkTheShocker]

:oldlol:

Yeah, shockingly teams lose when Jamario Moon is playing 40 minutes a night and Sebastian Telfair is getting serious burn.

All of the starters either didn't play or were on seriously limited minutes during the stretch at the end of 2010. Why allow the facts to get in the way of a good story, I guess?

You want to hear some facts? The Cavs went from winning 60+ games in back to back seasons to going on a 26 game streak once he left. And before you use the "it was a different team" excuse. They lost Shaq who missed 1/3 the season in Cleveland and was mostly out of shape. They lost Big Z who was also a total non-factor that year also. They lost Delonte who was in and out of the lineup with emotional and legal problems. The common denominator was always LeBron James. You can do you best to prop up his shitty teammates, but it was all LeBron.

[RedBlackAttack]

You want to hear some facts? The Cavs went from winning 60+ games in back to back seasons to going on a 26 game streak once he left. And before you use the "it was a different team" excuse. They lost Shaq who missed 1/3 the season in Cleveland and was mostly out of shape. They lost Big Z who was also a total non-factor that year also. They lost Delonte who was in and out of the lineup with emotional and legal problems. The common denominator was always LeBron James. You can do you best to prop up his shitty teammates, but it was all LeBron.
Review threads from 2010-11 if you want to see that season discussed ad nauseum.

The organization wasn't even trying to win in that 2010-11 season (smartly, I might add). Again, you'll never hear me downplay how great of a player James is. He's truly an all-timer.

In fact, he's so great that these efforts by his fans to denigrate every team that he's on, be it current or former, are entirely unnecessary.

You aren't one of the best defensive and rebounding teams in the league because of one player.

[Bigsmoke]

The sixers were good enough to make the playoffs without Iverson

FACT

The Sixers defeated a 53 win team on the the road in the Utah Jazz without Iverson even playing... But lose to them at home when Iverson was activated.

FACT

The Cabs without LeBron is worse than the 2011 cabs that won 19 games

Fact