Larry Bird vs Julius Erving Head-to-Head Stats

[dankok8]

79-80 Season

11/10/1979

Erving: 37/10/8 (14/32, 9/12)
Bird: 22/7/3 (10/17, 1/2)

Sixers win 95-92. Erving hit a big shot in the last minute.

12/19/1979

Erving: 20/3/4 (9/15, 2/2)
Bird: 24/9/4 (10/18, 3/3)

Celtics win 112-89 in a blowout.

12/22/1979

Erving: 37/5/7 (17/25, 3/5)
Bird: 23/12/6 (10/17, 2/2)

Sixers win 126-113. Erving had 6 points in a crucial 4th quarter run.

2/6/1980

Erving: 36/10/5 (13/23, 10/14)
Bird: 32/11/4 (12/27, 8/8)

Celtics win 129-110. Bird had 22 points in the second half as the Celtics took control.

3/7/1980

Erving: 36/13/5 (16/28, 4/4)
Bird: 27/8/4 (11/21, 5/7)

Boston won 11-92. Erving had 26 points in the second half but to no avail. He also had a game-high 13 rebounds in the loss.

3/30/1980

Erving: DNP
Bird: 10/10/5 (4/15, 2/3)

Sixers won 116-110. Erving sat this one out and Bird played 32 minutes. Boston had already clinched the #1 seed. Not counting this one…

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 33.2 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 5.8 apg on 56.1 %FG/59.6 %TS
Bird: 25.6 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 4.2 apg on 53.0 %FG/58.4 %TS

Celtics beat the Sixers 3-2 in games where both guys played but Julius got the better of rookie Bird by a pretty much unanimous decision and had several huge games.

'80 Playoffs

Game 1

Erving: 29/7/3 (12/22, 5/6)
Bird: 27/9/5 (13/24, 1/1)

Sixers win 96-93.

Game 2

Erving: 24/5/4 (9/17, 6/6)
Bird: 31/12/2 (15/30, 1/1)

Celtics win 96-90. Bird was the man in this game although Archibald helped put the Sixers away late after Celtics blew a big lead.

Game 3

Erving: 28/11/7/5 (13/22, 2/3)
Bird: 22/21/4 (9/21, 1/2)

Sixers win 99-97. Julius had 22 points in the second half.

Game 4

Erving: 30/10/3 (9/22, 11/15)
Bird: 19/13/3 (6/15, 7/8)

Sixers win 102-90.

Game 5

Erving: 14/9/4 (4/10, 6/9)
Bird: 12/14/2 (5/19, 2/2)

Sixers win 105-94. Hollins had a game-high 24 points for Philly.

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 25.0 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 4.2 apg on 50.5 %FG/56.7 %TS
Bird: 22.2 ppg, 13.8 rpg, 3.6 apg on 44.0 %FG/48.2 %TS

Sixers upset the favored Celtics 4-1 and Erving outplayed Bird for the most part.

80-81 Season

11/1/1980

Erving: 45/9/4 (16/32, 13/17)
Bird: 36/21/4 (14/29, 7/8)

Sixers win 117-113 in overtime.

1/28/1981

Erving: 35/10/6 (15/26, 5/7)
Bird: 24/8/6 (11/22, 2/2)

Boston wins 104-101. Archibald had an 18/10 game and made some crucial plays.

2/4/1981

Erving: 33/9/1 (14/28, 5/6)
Bird: 11/12/4 (4/16, 3/3)

Sixers win 107-104.

3/1/1981

Erving: 19/7/5 (6/16, 7/8)
Bird: 24/15/5 (10/18, 4/7)

Boston wins 114-107.

3/22/1981

Erving: 24/4/5 (11/15, 2/2)
Bird: 19/7/6 (8/21, 3/4)

Sixers win 126-94 in a blowout.

3/29/1981

Erving: 19/9/4 (9/19, 1/1)
Bird: 24/10/7 (11/23, 2/2)

Celtics win 98-94 and finish the season 62-20 tied for best record with Philly but they get the tiebreaker because of division record.

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 29.2 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 4.2 apg on 52.2 %FG/56.8 %TS
Bird: 23.0 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 5.3 apg on 45.0 %FG/49.1 %TS

The team record is 3-3 and Erving got the better of Bird individually yet again.

'81 Playoffs

Game 1

Erving: 25/9/1 (8/20, 9/9)
Bird: 33/10/3 (14/29, 5/5)

Sixers win 105-104. Philly reserves outscored Boston’s second unit 44-16.

Game 2

Erving: 12/2/2 (5/14, 2/3)
Bird: 34/16/5 (14/21, 6/7)

Celtics win 118-99. Bird lit it up with his outside shooting.

Game 3

Erving: 22/7/7 (9/21, 4/4)
Bird: 22/13/4 (8/16, 6/7)

Sixers win 110-100. Erving did a good job containing Bird in this game.

Game 4

Erving: 20/7/5/5 (8/16, 4/6)
Bird: 18/17/6 (7/19, 4/5)

Sixers win 107-105 and take a 3-1 lead. Sixers had a 29-13 edge in made free throws and Erving again put the clamps on Bird for a second straight game.

Game 5

Erving: 21/2/5 (9/18, 3/4)
Bird: 32/11/5 (11/24, 10/10)

Celtics won 111-109 to stay alive. Sixers were up 6 with 1:51 left but Celtics wouldn’t let Erving get off a shot and Bird and Archibald made huge plays late and Sixers made mistakes.

Game 6

Erving: 16/6/4 (5/17, 6/7)
Bird: 25/16/4 (10/22, 5/6)

Celtics won another nail-biter 100-98 in Philly and forced a Game 7 in Boston. Parish had a 21/10 game after struggling in the series.

Game 7

Erving: 23/8/5 (11/21, 1/2)
Bird: 23/11/5/4/3 (8/17, 6/7)

Celtics win 91-90 in an intensely physical game even by the standards back then. Erving had 6 turnovers and 5 fouls in this one.

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 19.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.1 apg on 43.3 %FG/48.8 %TS
Bird: 26.7 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 4.6 apg on 48.6 %FG/55.4 %TS

Celtics came back from 3-1 down to win Game 7 and Bird was a huge reason why. Bird definitely got the better of the Doctor in this series and made clutch plays in games that went to the final seconds.

81-82 Season

12/4/1981

Erving: 18/5/3/?/3 (7/17, 4/4)
Bird: 24/10/2 (9/19, 5/7)

Celtics win 111-103. Sixers had 31 turnovers to 21 for Boston.

12/19/1981

Erving: 36/13/3/?/2 (15/25, 6/9)
Bird: 28/15/5 (12/24, 4/4)

Sixers win 123-118.

1/8/1982

Erving: 20/5/4/?/2 (9/18, 1/1)
Bird: 12/13/6 (6/22, 0/0)

Celtics win 96-90.

3/21/1982

Erving: 28/7/3/?/2 (12/25, 4/5)
Bird: 29/9/8 (12/14, 5/5)

Sixers win 123-111.

3/28/1982

Erving: 21/7/4/?/2 (9/18, 3/4)
Bird: 12/9/2 (5/16, 2/2)

Sixers win 116-98.

4/11/1982

Erving: 31/11/3/?/1 (9/19, 13/16)
Bird: 20/15/7 (7/22, 6/6)

Celtics win 110-109.

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 25.7 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.8 bpg on 50.0 %FG/55.3 %TS
Bird: 20.8 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 5.0 apg on 43.6 %FG/49.0 %TS

The teams went 3-3 and Erving may have gotten a slight edge statistically.

'82 Playoffs

Game 1

Erving: 12/6/1/?/2 (5/9, 2/2)
Bird: 24/15/10 (10/23, 4/4)

Celtics win in a huge blowout 121-81. Erving is scoreless in the second half.

Game 2

Erving: 20/5/8/?/2 (8/21, 4/4)
Bird: 18/14/4 (9/20, 0/1)

Sixers win 121-113. Boston had 23 turnovers.

Game 3

Erving: 19/7/3/?/3 (7/15, 4/6)
Bird: 15/13/11 (6/16, 3/7)

Sixers won 99-97. Bird missed a couple of shots in the final seconds. Tiny Archibald left the game 2 min in with a dislocated left shoulder and wouldn’t be back in the series.

Game 4

Erving: 17/9/3/?/3 (6/11, 5/11)
Bird: 17/9/5 (8/16, 0/0)

Sixers won in a blowout 119-94 to take a 3-1 series lead. Andrew Toney had 39 points.

Game 5

Erving: 12/5/2/?/2 (4/9, 4/7)
Bird: 20/20/8 (8/19, 4/4)

Celtics won in a huge blowout 114-85. Sixers shot 33% from the field and were outrebounded 64-49. Bird was huge on the boards.

Game 6

Erving: 24/11/4/?/3 (8/20, 8/9)
Bird: 14/17/4 (6/19, 2/2)

Celtics won 88-75. Sixers shot 35% from the field including 20% for a record-low 27 points in the second half. Toney was totally stymied scored 3 points on 1/11 shooting.

Game 7

Erving: 29/4/5/?/3 (10/21, 9/9)
Bird: 20/11/9 (7/18, 6/8)

Sixers win 120-106 in Boston to avoid a second straight disaster in the playoffs. Erving had a great game and took over the game in key stretches in the 3rd but a major hero for Philly was again Andrew Toney “the Boston straggler” who had 34/3/6 on 61% shooting. Boston had 24 turnovers that led to 29 points.

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 19.0 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.7 apg, 2.6 bpg on 45.3 %FG/52.3 %TS
Bird: 18.3 ppg, 14.1 rpg, 7.3 apg, 1.1 bpg on 41.2 %FG/44.9 %TS

Although Bird may have a slight cumulative edge Erving was better in Game 7. This was a tie individually and Toney’s spectacular play in key games really gave Philly this series.

[LAZERUSS]

[QUOTE=dankok8]Maybe we can have a series on H2H rivalries between famous players in history? I've already posted some Kareem-Wilt-Thurmond match-ups as well as a Bird-Jordan rivalry thread like this one a few months back.

Anyways this thread is going to highlight the second greatest rivalry of the 80's between the veteran Julius "Dr J" Erving and young Larry Joe Bird. Unlike Magic and Bird these two guys often defended each other making it a true rivalry. The comparison will include the span from '79-'82 when Julius was still close to his prime. Bird was 23-26 years old in this span and Erving was 29-32.

PTS/REB/AST/BLK/STL (FG/FGA, FT/FTA)

79-80 Season

11/10/1979

Erving: 37/10/8 (14/32, 9/12)
Bird: 22/7/3 (10/17, 1/2)

Sixers win 95-92. Erving hit a big shot in the last minute.

12/19/1979

Erving: 20/3/4 (9/15, 2/2)
Bird: 24/9/4 (10/18, 3/3)

Celtics win 112-89 in a blowout.

12/22/1979

Erving: 37/5/7 (17/25, 3/5)
Bird: 23/12/6 (10/17, 2/2)

Sixers win 126-113. Erving had 6 points in a crucial 4th quarter run.

2/6/1980

Erving: 36/10/5 (13/23, 10/14)
Bird: 32/11/4 (12/27, 8/8)

Celtics win 129-110. Bird had 22 points in the second half as the Celtics took control.

3/7/1980

Erving: 36/13/5 (16/28, 4/4)
Bird: 27/8/4 (11/21, 5/7)

Boston won 11-92. Erving had 26 points in the second half but to no avail. He also had a game-high 13 rebounds in the loss.

3/30/1980

Erving: DNP
Bird: 10/10/5 (4/15, 2/3)

Sixers won 116-110. Erving sat this one out and Bird played 32 minutes. Boston had already clinched the #1 seed. Not counting this one

[inclinerator]

bird was just warming up

[SHAQisGOAT]

Thanks for posting, I knew it more-or-less. Slight but clear edge to Julius imo, even though Bird just shitted on Erving, in the ps, in Doc's MVP season.
Also find it funny that the Celtics were being favored in 1980, true that they had the best record but also after having the 2nd worst before Bird came around, 76ers were already an established powerhouse, in the Finals before and close other times.. Bird was that good lol.

Since you got prime Erving vs young Bird might as well post prime Bird vs older Erving, though.

[LAZERUSS]

Thanks for posting, I knew it more-or-less. Slight but clear edge to Julius imo, even though Bird just shitted on Erving, in the ps, in Doc's MVP season.
Also find it funny that the Celtics were being favored in 1980, true that they had the best record but also after having the 2nd worst before Bird came around, 76ers were already an established powerhouse, in the Finals before and close other times.. Bird was that good lol.

Since you got prime Erving vs young Bird might as well post prime Bird vs older Erving, though.

Personally, I don't believe this was a peak Dr. J. It's too bad we didn't get to see a Dr. J in the early 70's playing in the NBA.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Personally, I don't believe this was a peak Dr. J. It's too bad we didn't get to see a Dr. J in the early 70's playing in the NBA.

Who said peak though? I said prime. Doc was peaking around 1976 (at his best in his last ABA year).
People might look at his numbers after the merger and say they took a considerable dip but he wasn't having the same usage, and Philly worked way more as a team, still they reached the Finals and Erving was a beast in the post-season. (NBA was "better" than the ABA though, not saying otherwise)

[fpliii]

Great research, thanks. :applause:

There was a lot of talk in '81 as to who was the best forward. Those two got the most play, though Marques Johnson came up a bit in articles as well.

[Dr.J4ever]

Personally, I don't believe this was a peak Dr. J. It's too bad we didn't get to see a Dr. J in the early 70's playing in the NBA.
This.

[Dr.J4ever]

Who said peak though? I said prime. Doc was peaking around 1976 (at his best in his last ABA year).
People might look at his numbers after the merger and say they took a considerable dip but he wasn't having the same usage, and Philly worked way more as a team, still they reached the Finals and Erving was a beast in the post-season. (NBA was "better" than the ABA though, not saying otherwise)
Agree with you mostly except for the part about the NBA being better than the ABA. I used to believe that, but after having a little bit of research in as basic a site as Wikipedia(I posted a thread yesterday on it), i now know that many veteran observers believed otherwise.

To me, there's just too much evidence to the contrary that the ABA was at least at par with the NBA, and maybe even superior to the NBA in certain aspects.

[dankok8]

IMHO Erving circa 1981 wasn't much worse than 1976. Definitely still in his prime and a more refined ball-handler and shooter (though he never was a great shooter...). Like one poster above said his USG% went down in the NBA trying to make it work with McGinnis and Collins in particular. His rebounding numbers were also reduced with so many great big men so he got fewer high % opportunities.

He definitely brought his A game against Bird though! :bowdown:

So many times you hear people saying Bird >>> but I'm not so sure that's the case. I mean Erving gave young Bird who was already damn good a lot of spankings.

[Dr.J4ever]

We have to understand that one of the reasons the Bird vs Erving rivalry became downgraded in history is because of NBA marketing. What really ushered in a new era for the NBA and it's rating was Lakers-Celtics and Bird vs Magic. Early 80's, when Doc was in the equation, it was Doc-Bird, and then Doc-Kareem. Mid 80's , Bird and Magic took over, and the NBA hype machine made us forget about the early 80's.

If Doc ever played at his prime during the 80's, I really would not be surprised if he is now rated higher than Bird among SF's. We simply don't know, but to me, it's a good bet.

[SHAQisGOAT]

IMHO Erving circa 1981 wasn't much worse than 1976. Definitely still in his prime and a more refined ball-handler and shooter (though he never was a great shooter...). Like one poster above said his USG% went down in the NBA trying to make it work with McGinnis and Collins in particular. His rebounding numbers were also reduced with so many great big men so he got fewer high % opportunities.

He definitely brought his A game against Bird though! :bowdown:

So many times you hear people saying Bird >>> but I'm not so sure that's the case. I mean Erving gave young Bird who was already damn good a lot of spankings.

Yea but like you've said, young Bird, Julius was in his prime, that's why you should also post older Doc vs Bird at his best.


We have to understand that one of the reasons the Bird vs Erving rivalry became downgraded in history is because of NBA marketing. What really ushered in a new era for the NBA and it's rating was Lakers-Celtics and Bird vs Magic. Early 80's, when Doc was in the equation, it was Doc-Bird, and then Doc-Kareem. Mid 80's , Bird and Magic took over, and the NBA hype machine made us forget about the early 80's.

If Doc ever played at his prime during the 80's, I really would not be surprised if he is now rated higher than Bird among SF's. We simply don't know, but to me, it's a good bet.

Peak/prime Doc is really underrated, beast of a baller, but never as good as prime Bird.

Prime Bird vs prime Erving would've been something crazy.

[jlip]

Doesn't add much but...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191656

[Rolando]

Dr. J is and has been underrated for a long time. Those numbers he put up just go to show you what an absolute basketball god he actually was.

I am mentioning this as a very loyal Bird fan: my favorite player ever.

[bizil]

When u look at Doc and Bird, Doc is just as good of a scorer and a better defender. Bird has the passing and rebounding edge (but keep in mind Bird played plenty of PF in his career in addition to SF). Peak value wise, I would NARROWLY take Bird due to the passing. But historically, Dr.J was every bit important as Bird, and arguably a tad bit more. And in the annuals of SF's, Bird or Bron is the GOAT NBA SF. However, Doc is the GOAT SF in professional basketball history (NBA AND ABA combined) in my book. Doc also had tremendous durability (He only played less than 70 games in a season ONLY ONCE which was his last year) and was one of the premier SF's in the world even into his mid 30's. But I feel the Doc-Bird rivalry was unique because they acutually played the same position. MJ was up against Bird and Magic of course later, but all three played different positions. Other than Russell-Chamberlain, u can make the case that Bird-Doc was the greatest by position rivalry in basketball history! Which is saying a lot because Doc was already into his 30's when the rivalry began to really get going.

[Iceman#44]

Why dont you post complete numbers? I mean, until the end of Erving's career? I know that after 1982 the Doctor was well after his prime, but just to put COMPLETE INFO. Would be great to see everything about this.

[Iceman#44]

Here we go with some more Stats: 1982-1983 season



1982-1983 Season

11/6/1982
Bird: 21/19/7 (10-23, no ft)
Erving: 28/7/4 (12-21, 4-7)

Phila win 119-115 after 2 OT and go 5-0 during the RS; 1st loss for the Celtics

12/10/1982
Bird: 33/14/2 (13-21, 7-8)
Erving: 22/5/2 (7-15, 8-10)

Celtics won 123-97

12/21/1982
Bird: 13/12/5 (4-11, 5-6)
Erving: 19/10/3 (7-16, 5-6)

Phila win 122-105, 33+19 for Moses Malone


3/4/1983
Bird: 32/11/9 (13-25, 6-7)
Erving: 23/4/3 (11-17, 1-2)

Boston win 110-105


4/17/1983
Bird: 13/12/7 (6-19, 1-2)
Erving: 20/8/2 (8-14, 4-4)

Celtics win 114-101, Doctor plays just 23 minutes.


1982-1983 Cumulative Stats (Erving VS Bird):
Teams record: 5 games, Phila 2 - Boston 3
Bird: 22.4 ppg, 13.6 reb, 6.0 ast, 46-99 fg (.465)
Erving: 22.4 ppg, 6.8 reb, 2.8 ast, 45-83 fg (.542)



PLUS, on March 16, Phila without Erving beat Boston despite 30-11-8 game from Larry Legend
3/16/1983
Bird: 30/11/8 (15-25, no ft)
Erving: DNP
Phila win 105-100, Toney scores 33, 28+15 for Malone

[Champ]

Great stuff.

Something to keep in mind though is that Bobby Jones often covered Bird during this period, with Erving matching up with Maxwell.

[SHAQisGOAT]

When u look at Doc and Bird, Doc is just as good of a scorer and a better defender. Bird has the passing and rebounding edge (but keep in mind Bird played plenty of PF in his career in addition to SF). Peak value wise, I would NARROWLY take Bird due to the passing. But historically, Dr.J was every bit important as Bird, and arguably a tad bit more. And in the annuals of SF's, Bird or Bron is the GOAT NBA SF. However, Doc is the GOAT SF in professional basketball history (NBA AND ABA combined) in my book. Doc also had tremendous durability (He only played less than 70 games in a season ONLY ONCE which was his last year) and was one of the premier SF's in the world even into his mid 30's. But I feel the Doc-Bird rivalry was unique because they acutually played the same position. MJ was up against Bird and Magic of course later, but all three played different positions. Other than Russell-Chamberlain, u can make the case that Bird-Doc was the greatest by position rivalry in basketball history! Which is saying a lot because Doc was already into his 30's when the rivalry began to really get going.

I wouldn't say Doc was a better defensive player than Bird, nor overall scorer. Bird's rebounding numbers didn't really drop when he moved (permanently) to SF though.
Yes, Doc had a beast of a peak, as far as SF's I would only take Bird and Bron ahead.

[OldSchoolBBall]

When u look at Doc and Bird, Doc is just as good of a scorer and a better defender. Bird has the passing and rebounding edge .

Doc was not as good a scorer as Bird. Few people are.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Great stuff.

Something to keep in mind though is that Bobby Jones often covered Bird during this period, with Erving matching up with Maxwell.

Bobby was coming off the bench though. Who was guarding Bird a lot, just as much sometimes or even more than Doc, was Caldwell Jones. He was like 6'11, long, pretty athletic and a really good defensive player, no easy task.

[Iceman#44]

1983-1984 Season:


11/19/1983
Bird: 18/8/5 (7-18, 4-4)
Erving: 18/5/3 (7-25, 4-7)

Phila win 92-91, Cheeks top scorer with 20.


12/4/1983
Bird: 22/11/13 (10-25, 2-3)
Erving: 20/4/6 (6-15, 8-12)

Phila win @ Boston 121-114


1/13/1984
Bird: 29/19/8 (13-25, 3-5)
Erving: 22/6/2 (7-16, 8-12)

Boston win @ Phila 105-104, monster game by Larry Legend, almost a triple double with 29 pt and 19 boards! Also 28+8 ast by Toney.


1/25/1984
Bird: 15/6/7 (5-18, 5-5)
Erving: 20/5/6 (7-15, 6-12)

Celtics win 102-98, 24+13 for Robert Parish


2/12/1984
Bird: 25/10/2 (7-22, 11-14)
Erving: 30/9/4 (13-19, 4-5)

Huge game for Doctor J, Phila win 109-91 @ boston


3/25/1984
Bird: 33/17/6 (12-28, 9-12)
Erving: 29/6/6 (12-22, 4-6)

Great game, Phila win after 2 OT 119-114. "Wilt-like" performance for Moses Malone with 32 pts and 27 boards!


OVERALL STATS 1983-1984 SEASON (BIRD Vs ERVING)
Team Record: Phila 4 - Celtics 2
Bird: 23.7 ppg, 11.8 reb, 6.8 ast, 54-136 fg (.397)
Erving: 23.2 ppg, 5.8 reb, 4.5 ast, 52-112 fg (.464)

[dankok8]

Here is the remainder of their H2H's until the end of Erving's career.

82-83 Season

11/6/82

Erving: 28/7/4/3 (12/21, 4/7)
Bird: 21/19/7/0 (10/23, 0/0)

Sixers win 119-115 in double OT.

12/10/82

Erving: 22/5/2/2 (7/15, 8/10)
Bird: 33/14/2/0 (13/21, 7/8)

Celtics win 123-97.

12/21/82

Erving: 19/10/3/1 (7/16, 4/5)
Bird: 13/12/5/1 (4/11, 5/6)

Sixers win 122-106. Moses dominates with 33 points and 19 rebounds.

3/4/83

Erving: 23/4/3/0 (11/17, 1/2)
Bird: 32/11/9/0 (13/25, 6/7)

Celtics win 115-110.

3/16/83

Erving: DNP
Bird: 30/11/8 (15/25, 0/0)

Sixers win 105-100. Toney has 33 points, Moses 28 points and 15 rebounds.

4/17/83

Erving: 20/8/2/4 (8/14, 4/4)
Bird: 13/12/7/2 (6/19, 1/2)

Celtics win 114-101.

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 22.4 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.8 apg, 2.0 bpg on 54.2 %FG/58.7 %TS
Bird: 22.4 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 6.0 apg on 46.5 %FG/51.3 %TS

Julius held his own for the most part.


83-84 Season

11/19/83

Erving: 18/5/3/1 (7/25, 4/7)
Bird: 18/8/5/1 (7/18, 4/4)

Sixers win 92-91.

12/4/83

Erving: 20/4/6/2 (6/15, 8/12)
Bird: 22/11/13/2 (10/25, 2/3)

Sixers win 121-114 in OT.

1/13/84

Erving: 22/6/2/3 (7/16, 8/12)
Bird: 29/19/8/0 (13/25, 3/5)

Celtics win 105-104.

1/25/84

Erving: 20/5/6/1 (7/15, 6/12)
Bird: 15/6/7/2 (5/18, 5/5)

Celtics win 102-98. Moses misses game with injury.

2/12/84

Erving: 30/9/4/0/2 (13/19, 4/5)
Bird: 25/10/2/0/0 (7/22, 11/14)

Sixers win 109-91. Moses misses game with injury.

3/25/84

Erving: 29/6/6/2 (12/22, 4/6)
Bird: 33/17/6/1 (12/28, 9/12)

Sixers win 119-114 in double OT. Moses has 32 points and 27 rebounds.

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 23.2 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.5 bpg on 46.4 %FG/51.2 %TS
Bird: 23.7 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 6.8 apg, 1.0 bpg on 39.7 %FG/45.8 %TS

Again Erving though probably slightly outplayed did well in his battle with Bird.


84-85 Season

11/9/84

Erving: 6/3/5/0 (3/13, 0/1)
Bird: 42/7/3/2 (17/23, 7/7)

Celtics win 130-119. The famous Bird-Erving brawk takes place after Bird taunts Erving by reciting their points.

12/12/84

Erving: 16/4/3/0 (7/18, 2/2)
Bird: 34/9/5/0 (16/28, 2/2)

Sixers win 110-107 in OT. Moses has 33 points and 13 boards.

1/20/85

Erving: 17/7/2/2 (8/12, 1/4)
Bird: 38/9/4/3 (15/26, 6/6)

Celtics win 113-97.

1/30/85

Erving: 15/2/6/1 (4/13, 7/8)
Bird: 16/7/8/1 (8/15, 0/0)

Sixers win 122-104. Moses has 38 points and 24 rebounds in a dominant effort.

3/29/85

Erving: DNP
Bird: 24/7/5/0 (10/15, 4/5)

Celtics win 112-108.

4/9/85

Erving: 18/4/2/3 (8/15, 2/2)
Bird: 18/7/9/1 (7/15, 4/5)

Sixers win 113-104.

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 14.4 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 3.6 apg, 1.2 bpg on 42.3 %FG/45.9 %TS
Bird: 29.6 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 5.8 apg, 1.4 bpg on 58.9 %FG/63.9 %TS

Bird definitely outplayed Dr. J in this season series. In fact he obliterated him in the first 3 games.


'85 Playoffs

Game 1

Erving: 12/6/2/1/1 (5/18, 2/2)
Bird: 23/9/7/1/4 (10/18, 3/3)

Celtics win in a blowout 108-93.

Game 2

Erving: 22/6/7/1/6 (8/13, 6/6)
Bird: 24/8/7/3/2 (8/23, 8/9)

Celtics win 106-98.

Game 3

Erving: 5/6/4/1/0 (1/10, 3/4)
Bird: 26/7/5/1/4 (11/19, 2/2)

Celtics win 105-94.

Game 4

Erving: 15/6/6/4/3 (4/21, 7/9)
Bird: 14/7/6/1/0 (4/15, 6/6) + 8 turnovers

Sixers win 115-104 to avoid getting swept.

Game 5

Erving: 16/2/3/1/0 (6/12, 4/4)
Bird: 17/5/5/1/3 (6/18, 5/7)

Celtics win 102-100.

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 14.0 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.6 bpg, 2.0 spg on 32.4 %FG/41.2 %TS
Bird: 20.8 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 6.0 apg, 1.4 bpg, 2.6 spg on 41.9 %FG/49.6 %TS

Even at such a late age Erving was able to play peak Bird to at least a draw in Game 2, 4, and 5. Granted Larry was injured.


85-86 Season

11/22/85

Erving: 21/8/1/0/2 (9/20, 2/2)
Bird: 11/9/6/2/0 (5/16, 1/2)

Celtics win 110-103.

11/26/85

Erving: 17/3/5/0/2 (7/16, 2/5)
Bird: 16/9/1/0/2 (6/17, 4/4)

Celtics win 98-91.

12/21/85

Erving: 14/6/2/1/0 (5/14, 4/4)
Bird: 29/8/6/1/2 (14/30, 1/1)

Sixers win 108-102.

1/26/86

Erving: 13/3/4/0/1 (6/13, 1/1)
Bird: 28/14/6/0/4 (9/25, 7/7)

Celtics win 105-103. McHale misses the game.

3/16/86

Erving: 13/5/4/0/0 (4/12, 5/5)
Bird: 36/14/6/0/3 (16/25, 1/2)

Celtics win 118-101.

4/6/86

Erving: 23/5/4/0/4 (8/14, 5/7)
Bird: 18/10/10/0/1 (8/17, 0/2)

Sixers win 95-94.

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 16.8 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 3.3 apg, 0.2 bpg, 1.5 spg on 43.8 %FG/50.7 %TS
Bird: 23.0 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 5.8 apg, 0.5 bpg, 2.0 spg on 44.6 %FG/50.0 %TS

Bird got the better of Erving here though he didn't put up great numbers.


86-87 Season

11/25/86

Erving: 16/5/3/0/0 (7/14, 2/2)
Bird: 22/7/6/0/0 (10/23, 2/3)

Sixers win 102-100.

12/5/86

Erving: 18/3/5/1/2 (7/13, 3/6)
Bird: DNP

Celtics win 108-106 despite Bird sitting out with a strained Achilles.

12/19/86

Erving: 24/7/5/2/1 (7/12, 10/12)
Bird: 20/7/9/0/1 (9/16, 2/2)

Sixers win in a blowout 122-100.

1/25/87

Erving: 6/5/2/2/1 (6/13, 1/1)
Bird: 17/4/5/0/4 (6/14, 4/5)

Celtics win 111-96.

3/29/87

Erving: 28/3/4/1/3 (11/26, 5/5)
Bird: 17/13/12/0/1 (7/16, 2/2)

Celtics win 118-100. McHale missed the game.

4/5/87

Erving: 11/5/5/0/0 (5/10, 1/1)
Bird: 39/10/12/0/1 (16/32, 5/5)

Sixers win 106-104 in OT.

Cumulative Stats

Erving: 17.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.0 bpg, 1.0 spg on 48.0 %FG/50.5 %TS
Bird: 23.0 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 8.8 apg, 0.0 bpg, 1.4 spg on 47.5 %FG/53.0 %TS

[Champ]

Doc was not as good a scorer as Bird. Few people are.

Doc was a better scorer during the first three years of the rivalry, though. Then things leveled out until Bird leaped ahead during the 83-84 season.

[dankok8]

When u look at Doc and Bird, Doc is just as good of a scorer and a better defender. Bird has the passing and rebounding edge (but keep in mind Bird played plenty of PF in his career in addition to SF). Peak value wise, I would NARROWLY take Bird due to the passing. But historically, Dr.J was every bit important as Bird, and arguably a tad bit more. And in the annuals of SF's, Bird or Bron is the GOAT NBA SF. However, Doc is the GOAT SF in professional basketball history (NBA AND ABA combined) in my book. Doc also had tremendous durability (He only played less than 70 games in a season ONLY ONCE which was his last year) and was one of the premier SF's in the world even into his mid 30's. But I feel the Doc-Bird rivalry was unique because they acutually played the same position. MJ was up against Bird and Magic of course later, but all three played different positions. Other than Russell-Chamberlain, u can make the case that Bird-Doc was the greatest by position rivalry in basketball history! Which is saying a lot because Doc was already into his 30's when the rivalry began to really get going.

Excellent post! :applause:

Overall in their 44 encounters in the regular season, Bird and Erving each won 22 games. In the postseason they met in 4 playoff series (all ECF...) and each man won 2 times. Even the playoff games won are tied 12-12.

[Pointguard]

When u look at Doc and Bird, Doc is just as good of a scorer and a better defender. Bird has the passing and rebounding edge (but keep in mind Bird played plenty of PF in his career in addition to SF). Peak value wise, I would NARROWLY take Bird due to the passing. But historically, Dr.J was every bit important as Bird, and arguably a tad bit more. And in the annuals of SF's, Bird or Bron is the GOAT NBA SF. However, Doc is the GOAT SF in professional basketball history (NBA AND ABA combined) in my book. Doc also had tremendous durability (He only played less than 70 games in a season ONLY ONCE which was his last year) and was one of the premier SF's in the world even into his mid 30's. But I feel the Doc-Bird rivalry was unique because they acutually played the same position. MJ was up against Bird and Magic of course later, but all three played different positions. Other than Russell-Chamberlain, u can make the case that Bird-Doc was the greatest by position rivalry in basketball history! Which is saying a lot because Doc was already into his 30's when the rivalry began to really get going.

Good Post as always.

Its hard to say which H2H matchup was the greatest involving a top ten GOAT but Chamberlain and Russell, as you mentioned, did have very close peaks - despite it was hard to measure their strengths against each other. Chamberlain was easily the better individual player while Russell was the better team player.

The best H2H matchup will be Durant/Lebron because they matchup more than Doc and Bird did. KG and Duncan had two guys at the same age peaking together and posting nearly identical numbers on each other and they actually guarded each other most of the time?

[Meticode]

Great thread, great research, great topic. Thank you for this. It's amazing how a poster with 100 posts can make one post and totally out-do tons of trolls all-together combined with legit topics.

Positive repped.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Doc was a better scorer during the first three years of the rivalry, though. Then things leveled out until Bird leaped ahead during the 83-84 season.

I was talking peak vs. peak, which is what the poster I quoted was referring to.

[Pointguard]

Danko, do you know why the '81 playoffs were so bad for Doc???

What year was the fight?

How do you rank Doc as a passer?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

When u look at Doc and Bird, Doc is just as good of a scorer and a better defender. Bird has the passing and rebounding edge (but keep in mind Bird played plenty of PF in his career in addition to SF). Peak value wise, I would NARROWLY take Bird due to the passing. But historically, Dr.J was every bit important as Bird, and arguably a tad bit more. And in the annuals of SF's, Bird or Bron is the GOAT NBA SF. However, Doc is the GOAT SF in professional basketball history (NBA AND ABA combined) in my book. Doc also had tremendous durability (He only played less than 70 games in a season ONLY ONCE which was his last year) and was one of the premier SF's in the world even into his mid 30's. But I feel the Doc-Bird rivalry was unique because they acutually played the same position. MJ was up against Bird and Magic of course later, but all three played different positions. Other than Russell-Chamberlain, u can make the case that Bird-Doc was the greatest by position rivalry in basketball history! Which is saying a lot because Doc was already into his 30's when the rivalry began to really get going.

I wouldn't say Doc was a better scorer than Bird (one of the GOAT shooters in history as well), but he's another case study of the “what if” type legacy. I mean, what if he didn’t play 5 years in the ABA? What would his NBA legacy look like had he played in the NBA for those 5 years? Guy influenced so many players who came in the following generations and players who weren’t even born when he retired still regard Doc as one of their inspirations to this day.

[Jailblazers7]

Doc is probably the most consistently underrated player on ISH and in general discussion. He would probably be consistently ranked top 10 if he spent his early years in the NBA instead of the ABA.

[dankok8]

Danko, do you know why the '81 playoffs were so bad for Doc???

What year was the fight?

How do you rank Doc as a passer?

From what I've been reading and seeing about the '81 ECF (Game 7 is on YT and other games were posted on RealGM somewhere...) Erving spent a considerable amount of time defending Bird. The energy expended chasing Larry completely depleted him for scoring on the other end. In retrospect it was probably a terrible move by Billy C to put the Doctor on Bird.

Bird rarely defended Dr J but vice versa was kind of common throughout their match-ups. However Bobby and Caldwell were mostly on Larry.

The infamous fight was Nov. 4, 1984, their first encounter in the 84-85 season. Bird absolutely mauled Erving in that game and taunted him every time after scoring saying stuff like... "it's 42-6 Doc!". Eventually Erving got so mad he started strangling Bird. Then Moses and Barkley were holding Larry while Doc landed a few cheap shots. That was a real rivalry that you won't find today.


Anyways here is the career summary as well...

Overall H2H record from 79-87

Regular season: 23-21 Celtics
Postseason: 12-12 tie (2-2 series tie)

Overall Career H2H Numbers

Regular Season

Erving: 22.8 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 3.9 apg on 49.7 %FG/75.5 %FT/54.2 %TS
Bird: 23.8 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 6.0 apg on 46.9 %FG/84.5 %FT/52.1 %TS

Playoffs

Erving: 19.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 4.1 apg on 43.5 %FG/79.6 %FT/50.2 %TS
Bird: 22.1 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 5.9 apg on 44.3 %FG/85.1 %FT/49.9 %TS

Erving got to the line a lot more so that's why his TS% is higher.

[ProfessorMurder]

Doc is probably the most consistently underrated player on ISH and in general discussion. He would probably be consistently ranked top 10 if he spent his early years in the NBA instead of the ABA.

Dominique is most underrated. Dominique has career averages as good as or better than Kobe in virtually every category other than assists, but people leave him out of the top 50...

[bizil]

I wouldn't say Doc was a better defensive player than Bird, nor overall scorer. Bird's rebounding numbers didn't really drop when he moved (permanently) to SF though.
Yes, Doc had a beast of a peak, as far as SF's I would only take Bird and Bron ahead.

For starters, Bird played plenty of PF early in his career. Those all defensive teams Bird made was when he was listed by many publications as a PF-SF. And not a SF-PF later down the line when McHale began starting mainly. Actually for PF's Bird was a very good defender. But in terms of guarding SF's, Doc is better than Bird in that sense. I mean who would u rather have defending a Bernard King or Nique on an island, Dr. J or Bird. Give me the natural SF in Doc. Neither was a great defender, but Doc was better defending SF's than Bird EVER WAS!!

In terms of scoring, Doc and Bird are on the same level. Bird has the MORE COMPLETE SCORING SKILLSET though! It's just like KD and Lebron. Sure KD has a better scoring skillset, but if u look at the results (PPG, FG%, etc.) Bron is just as good putting the ball in the rack. A peak Doc is every bit as good of scorer in terms of results as Bird. But Bird has more ways to score. I happen to put Bird, Doc, Nique, King on the same level of alpha dog. Calling them even scoring ISN'T a stretch at all! And if u prefer Bird then that's fine though.

In terms of boards, my point is Bird played a lot of PF. He was used to banging with bigger bodies and doing great rebounding. So naturally when he moved to SF, he was REALLY going to have the edge there. I think u missed the point I was trying to make. If Bird was already a GREAT REBOUNDER at PF, surely he would be one of the top 4-5 rebounding SF's EVER!

[bizil]

Dominique is most underrated. Dominique has career averages as good as or better than Kobe in virtually every category other than assists, but people leave him out of the top 50...

I agree 100%, Nique is my favorite player of all time! For all that he has done for basketball, its CRIMINAL the way many view him. Guys like English, Dantley, etc. are mad underrated. But Nique was so visible and a part of building the game globally. He was one of the L's 5-6 biggest stars with MJ, Magic, Bird, Isiah, and Barkley in that sense. Those were the guys who sold All Star weekend. Then on top of it, many people shit on Nique and disrespect him. Saying he was a one trick pony, selfish, not a true superstar, etc. At times it seemed like there was an agenda against Nique getting his just due.

For all intensive purposes, the freak athlete scoring machine SF family tree goes Baylor, Hawkins, Dr. J, Nique, and Bron. Historically, those five guys are the ones who really were epic at that. Bron has taken it to the ultimate level with his all around game. But that freak athlete SF scoring machine shit is a huge part of what makes Bron. And is an EPIC part of what builds the NBA and put asses in seats. And makes the L very marketable for casual fans. Nique held the torch after Doc and did it so well he HAS MORE CAREER POINTS THAN ANY SF IN NBA HISTORY!! Just like Big O has it for PG's, MJ for SG's, Mailman for PF's, and Kareem for C's. So for Nique to be on that level is EPIC IMMORTAL SHIT! And rightfully so, because in terms of growing the game and really revolutionizing basketball, Nique was THE SF along with Bird of the Golden Era.

[bizil]

Doc was not as good a scorer as Bird. Few people are.

A peak Dr. J WAS EVERY BIT THE SCORER BIRD WAS!!! But Bird has more complete scoring skillset. It's two different arguments. Nique was also every bit the scorer Bird was, but once again Bird had the more complete scoring skillset. All three are on the same level of alpha dog in my book though. The numbers Nique and Doc put up prove they were every bit the scorer Bird was.

[bizil]

Good Post as always.

Its hard to say which H2H matchup was the greatest involving a top ten GOAT but Chamberlain and Russell, as you mentioned, did have very close peaks - despite it was hard to measure their strengths against each other. Chamberlain was easily the better individual player while Russell was the better team player.

The best H2H matchup will be Durant/Lebron because they matchup more than Doc and Bird did. KG and Duncan had two guys at the same age peaking together and posting nearly identical numbers on each other and they actually guarded each other most of the time?

Awesome points! Durant-Bron is gonna take the cake no doubt! KG-Duncan was always epic as well. So was Barkley-Mailman as well! In terms of Wilt-Russell I agree with u. Wilt was easily the better solo player than Russ. Their rivalry it seemed had many more elements than just the individual battle. It was almost as if the draw way seeing if the mammoth Wilt could slay the Celtics. Instead of just Wilt-Russ.

[bizil]

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]I wouldn't say Doc was a better scorer than Bird (one of the GOAT shooters in history as well), but he's another case study of the

[Iceman#44]

From what I've been reading and seeing about the '81 ECF (Game 7 is on YT and other games were posted on RealGM somewhere...) Erving spent a considerable amount of time defending Bird. The energy expended chasing Larry completely depleted him for scoring on the other end. In retrospect it was probably a terrible move by Billy C to put the Doctor on Bird.

Bird rarely defended Dr J but vice versa was kind of common throughout their match-ups. However Bobby and Caldwell were mostly on Larry.

The infamous fight was Nov. 4, 1984, their first encounter in the 84-85 season. Bird absolutely mauled Erving in that game and taunted him every time after scoring saying stuff like... "it's 42-6 Doc!". Eventually Erving got so mad he started strangling Bird. Then Moses and Barkley were holding Larry while Doc landed a few cheap shots. That was a real rivalry that you won't find today.


Anyways here is the career summary as well...

Overall H2H record from 79-87

Regular season: 22-22 tie
Postseason: 12-12 tie (2-2 series tie)

Overall Career H2H Numbers

Regular Season

Erving: 22.8 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 3.9 apg on 49.7 %FG/75.5 %FT/54.2 %TS
Bird: 23.8 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 6.0 apg on 46.9 %FG/84.5 %FT/52.1 %TS

Playoffs

Erving: 19.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 4.1 apg on 43.5 %FG/79.6 %FT/50.2 %TS
Bird: 22.1 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 5.9 apg on 44.3 %FG/85.1 %FT/49.9 %TS

Erving got to the line a lot more so that's why his TS% is higher.



Actually W-L record is 23-21 for Bird in regular season...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=birdla01&p2=ervinju01

[Ben.]

Great post Danko

[dankok8]

Comparing Bird and Erving as scorers it's pretty damn close. Dr J was a monster slasher and finisher at the rim and he also got the to line more. Bird meanwhile was a deadeye shooter and more effective in the post as well. Overall looking at their volume and efficiency it's a wash. If I really had to pick one I'd go with Erving because of his higher finals scoring in particular. But that's grasping at straws...

Bird has a definite edge as a rebounder. 10-11 per game vs. 7-8... and his TRB% in the NBA is also much higher. That's a no brainer.

Passing is closer than people think. Speaking purely in terms of court vision that's Bird. He can make set passes from the high post better than any player ever with some insane degrees of difficulty. However when it comes to playmaking Erving is almost there because he's a superior ball-handler and his slashing puts more pressure on the defense. He's also better on the break.

Defensively Bird has an edge on bigger guys but Erving has an edge on smaller more athletic players. Off-ball both men were awesome. Defense ain't all blocks and steals... heck those two stats don't even come close to capturing the impact but Dr J really was amazing as an off-ball defender. Just as much as Bird despite the fewer accolades.

Overall I'd give Bird a slight edge because of rebounding. Also Bird just seemed to have that sixth sense that knack for seeing plays before they happen... the Kodak moments as coach KC Jones once put it.

[bizil]

Comparing Bird and Erving as scorers it's pretty damn close. Dr J was a monster slasher and finisher at the rim and he also got the to line more. Bird meanwhile was a deadeye shooter and more effective in the post as well. Overall looking at their volume and efficiency it's a wash. If I really had to pick one I'd go with Erving because of his higher finals scoring in particular. But that's grasping at straws...

Bird has a definite edge as a rebounder. 10-11 per game vs. 7-8... and his TRB% in the NBA is also much higher. That's a no brainer.

Passing is closer than people think. Speaking purely in terms of court vision that's Bird. He can make set passes from the high post better than any player ever with some insane degrees of difficulty. However when it comes to playmaking Erving is almost there because he's a superior ball-handler and his slashing puts more pressure on the defense. He's also better on the break.

Defensively Bird has an edge on bigger guys but Erving has an edge on smaller more athletic players. Off-ball both men were awesome. Defense ain't all blocks and steals... heck those two stats don't even come close to capturing the impact but Dr J really was amazing as an off-ball defender. Just as much as Bird despite the fewer accolades.

Overall I'd give Bird a slight edge because of rebounding. Also Bird just seemed to have that sixth sense that knack for seeing plays before they happen... the Kodak moments as coach KC Jones once put it.

Tremendous breakdown of Doc and Bird! And good observation about Doc's playmaking. Doc was a better passer (and all around player in general) than many recall. The way he could break down a defense and make easier shots for his teammates was very apparent when u watched him play.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I never felt Doc was the better scorer, I feel he was just as good of a scorer. I put Bird and Doc on the same level of scoring dominance. They just did it differently. Sure Bird is on the GOAT shooters, but Doc is one of the GOAT slashers. The pressure Doc, Bron, Nique, etc. put on a defense is a unique talent in itself. And in essence, makes a guy like Doc just good of a scorer as Bird. I don't feel better, because I put them on the same level scoring wise.

I respectfully disagree. Bird's combination of skills and efficiency set him apart. Not like it isn't close though.

It's crazy... I just cannot figure out another player that is similar to Larry. He is just so strange (I mean this in a good way). There is truly no one like him. I cant simply write another name here and try to explain how they are similar. It would be an injustice to Bird. Dirk Nowitzki is the closest person to being like Larry, but even his game is too different. It has been more than twenty years since dude has retired and there is really nobody that we can truly compare him to (think it is safe to say that there will never be another Larry Bird...)

[bizil]

I respectfully disagree. Bird's combination of skills and efficiency set him apart. Not like it isn't close though.

It's crazy... I just cannot figure out another player that is similar to Larry. He is just so strange (I mean this in a good way). There is truly no one like him. I cant simply write another name here and try to explain how they are similar. It would be an injustice to Bird. Dirk Nowitzki is the closest person to being like Larry, but even his game is too different. It has been more than twenty years since dude has retired and there is really nobody that we can truly compare him to (think it is safe to say that there will never be another Larry Bird...)


I never said LB wasn't unique, didn't change the game or any of that. I was simply stating that Bird's shooting and combo of skills set him apart from the rest and made him immortal. I ALSO SAID Doc's freak athletic ability and slashing made him stand apart too and made him immortal. They are two totally different players who have THREE THINGS in common. For starters, both are SF's, even though Bird played a lot of PF and Doc actually became more of a SF-SG as time went on. Secondly, both were epic alpha dog scorers who could carry a team. Third, both had transcendant level charisma along with epic accomplishments that made them two of the biggest stars in SPORTS HISTORY not just NBA history.

So basically, Bird couldn't do what Doc did. And Doc couldn't do what Bird did. But with that said, I would narrowly take Bird over Doc peak value wise. Historically when u factor ABA, I still consider Dr. J the GOAT SF. Who will eventually be eclipsed it looks like by Lebron.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Can't believe some people think that scoring is close between these two peak versus peak. Bird is one of the most skilled and effective scorers EVER. I actually think he might be a better scorer than Kobe, or at least not appreciably worse.

[LAZERUSS]

Can't believe some people think that scoring is close between these two peak versus peak. Bird is one of the most skilled and effective scorers EVER. I actually think he might be a better scorer than Kobe, or at least not appreciably worse.

Delete. Wrong thread.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I never said LB wasn't unique, didn't change the game or any of that.

I'm not saying you did. That was me going on a tangent. :lol

[bizil]

Can't believe some people think that scoring is close between these two peak versus peak. Bird is one of the most skilled and effective scorers EVER. I actually think he might be a better scorer than Kobe, or at least not appreciably worse.

When u look at Doc's PPG and FG%, it's OBVIOUS the scoring is on the same level as Bird. But Bird's TOTAL SCORING SKILLSET is better than Doc's. Bird has one of the premier scoring skillsets of all time. However, in terms of results and numbers, Doc was every bit the scorer Bird was. But I put them on the same level of alpha dog frankly. The guys like MJ and Kobe are scary because they had freak athletic ability like Doc and one of the best scoring skillsets ever like Bird.

[bizil]

I'm not saying you did. That was me going on a tangent. :lol

I understand bro! I was doing the same!:cheers:

[feyki]

Great thread .

Bird hadn't great scoring until 84 season . Erving looks better scorer in those series and that's normal . I think Erving Defence is underrated . Probably he was greatest shot blocker for his position in nba history , who is averaged 2 blocks a game along 8-9 years . He was good passer,playmaker for his position too . Of course , Bird had better passing,playmaking in other side .

[Marchesk]

If people counted the ABA the same as the NBA, Erving would have a strong top 10 case.

[LAZERUSS]

If people counted the ABA the same as the NBA, Erving would have a strong top 10 case.

100% agreed.

:cheers:

[SexSymbol]

18-14-7 is just better than 19-7-4

[SexSymbol]

If people counted the ABA the same as the NBA, Erving would have a strong top 10 case.
and they should, ABA was stronger.

[feyki]

I think he was better than Kareem at 75 and 76 . He was probably same or close level as Kareem in 74,77,78,79 and 80 years .

70's legends gets underrated as always . Cause That Era wasn't popular .