Grade 4 question: I wanna see if an adult can pass this

[hateraid]

My kid came home with a marked assignment in which he was only rewarded 50%. The questions were in 2 parts. I was a little pissed as to why my son did not receive full marks. I will explain later as to why he was only rewarded half the credit. I've shown this too some of my peers/family and half of them got question 2 wrong.

Here is 1 example of the 2 part question:

1) 628 - 379 = ?

2) Check it


No other instructions were given. Now answer this for me please

[shaq2000]

Get your kid into a better school.

[CeltsGarlic]

1. 628 - 379= 249

2. 249 + 379 = 628

[KobesFinger]

Did he add 379 and 249 back together? That's the only way I know how to prove it

[Mr. Jabbar]

1) 249

2) 249 √

[TheMarkMadsen]

My kid came home with a marked assignment in which he was only rewarded 50%. The questions were in 2 parts. I was a little pissed as to why my son did not receive full marks. I will explain later as to why he was only rewarded half the credit. I've shown this too some of my peers/family and half of them got question 2 wrong.

Here is 1 example of the 2 part question:

1) 628 - 379 = ?

2) Check it


No other instructions were given. Now answer this for me please

yeah that whole "check it" is such bullshit.

did he forget to "check" aka did he not SPELL IT OUT for the teacher as to how he subtracted 379 from 628?

628-379= 249

249+379= 628..

It's pretty silly to "check" on simple subtraction problems but it does help when the math gets harder and he gets to algebra and shit

not sure if thats why he missed it but thats the only thing i could think of

he didn't get the answer wrong so it was dumb to give him an F, i agree.

[shaq2000]

? = 249
? + 379 = 249 + 379 = 628
2? = 2(628 - 379) = 2(249) = 498
-1? = -1(628 - 379) = -1(249) = -249

It checks out.

[MavsSuperFan]

1. 628 - 379= 249

2. 249 + 379 = 628
This is the answer and it's reasonable if the teacher expected your kid to do this.

Scores at this age aren't as important as teaching skills such as how to check equations

[Levity]

Did he miss the check it part? because thats probably more on him than anyone else. i doubt an adult would remember to do something so simple like that, but im sure thats the way they teach him in grade school and have them repeatedly do it.

however, i agree its dumb that they mark him down 50% for not checking. i reminds me of "not showing your work" on math tests back in teh day, so the teacher doesnt give you credit. not everyone needs to write shit on paper in order to get the answer

[cos88]

they should say more clearly:

2. prove that you are right, not check it wich is to vague

[GASOL IS GOAT]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2zz5nhf.jpg

[-p.tiddy-]

probably safe to assume he was taught how to "check it" in class :confusedshrug:

[9erempiree]

:oldlol:

Elementary teachers are now asking 4th graders to check their work on a simple subtraction problem?

Thank goodness they didn't do this when I was in school. More solving. :facepalm

To be fair......his son did problem #1 and then when it said check it on #2...the kid probably glanced it over and knew he was right and moved on.

[TheMarkMadsen]

he should have checked but it shouldn't result in an F if he didn't check but got the answer right..

should have been like a 75% for getting the answer right but not checking.

[shaq2000]

This is the answer and it's reasonable if the teacher expected your kid to do this.

Scores at this age aren't as important as teaching skills such as how to check equations

It's not an equation. Unless the teacher is intending the question mark to be a variable, in which case he's a questionable teacher.

[DaSeba5]

This is pretty simple for 4th grade. They made me do algebra in 2nd grade with pawn pieces.

[9erempiree]

If I was OP I would tell the teacher that the son deserved full credit.

He did the work and how does she know he didn't check it. #2 did say check it and he checked it. Didn't show his work but it didn't ask for that.

You can check it with a calculator or check it with an adult.

[DaSeba5]

50% is ridiculous though. If anything, if the directions asked to check it, and he didn't do it, they should just take a few points off (assuming the teacher explained how to check it to him), but to give him only half credit after getting the answer right is just silly. I mean this isn't high school or college, what does the teacher hope to accomplish?

[hateraid]

Thank you for the responses guys.

The correct method and how it was to be checked was to reverse order. Which is 249+379= 628

So my son got the first question right, but question 2 what he did was redo the question and show his work. In fact he did it the long way by showing all the carrying overs. He was not in fact taught reverse order.

This is where I have a problem is because question 2 is so ambiguous a child could have interpreted it several ways. In fact I agree with whoever said "check it with a calculator". All it said was check it with no further instructions. If question 2 actually said "check your answer using reverse order" then the onus would have been on my child

[Patrick Chewing]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/Babich4000/check_zps4de47927.jpg

[miller-time]

http://rightcogency.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/unknauthor_problem-cartoon.jpg

The kid was probably shown how to check it. He should have done that.. How did the other kids in the class go?

[niko]

To me, the thing to do is ask the other parents. If everyone did it except him, then they taught him what to do, he didn't do it, he should pay more attention. If a bunch of kids were confused, or their parents had to tell them, then it's the teachers fault.

We had a question the other day. Sally has three apples. She also has two oranges. How many vegtables does she have?

So to me it's zero. But it was actually a typo.

[b1imtf]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Verticle_Subtraction_Example.svg/180px-Verticle_Subtraction_Example.svg.png

Maybe this?

[hateraid]

http://rightcogency.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/unknauthor_problem-cartoon.jpg

The kid was probably shown how to check it. He should have done that.. How did the other kids in the class go?

Part of the learning process is kids pass around work and check eachothers answers. Half the kids got it wrong

[MavsSuperFan]

Part of the learning process is kids pass around work and check eachothers answers. Half the kids got it wrong
Don't stress too much about elementary school grades there's no one today successful because they did great in elementary school and there's no one A failure because they did bad in elementary school

Actual grades at this point aren't as important as learning the actual skills and knowledge

[shaq2000]

Do the kid a favor and teach him the algebraic axioms yourself. Also explain to him that math is so much more than arithmetic so he doesn't get turned off to it like everyone else.

[ballup]

1. 349
2. 628 - 249 = 379

I bet that's also half credit for being a smart ass.

[nathanjizzle]

http://i40.tinypic.com/33aciuo.png

[miller-time]

Part of the learning process is kids pass around work and check eachothers answers. Half the kids got it wrong

I bet they learnt to do it right the next time though? Success! :D

[YouGotServed]

probably safe to assume he was taught how to "check it" in class :confusedshrug:

lol this. Of course they went over it in class.

Your kid's teacher is right. Don't blame the teacher because your kid can't follow instructions.

[gts]

Thank you for the responses guys.

The correct method and how it was to be checked was to reverse order. Which is 249+379= 628

So my son got the first question right, but question 2 what he did was redo the question and show his work. In fact he did it the long way by showing all the carrying overs. He was not in fact taught reverse order.

This is where I have a problem is because question 2 is so ambiguous a child could have interpreted it several ways. In fact I agree with whoever said "check it with a calculator". All it said was check it with no further instructions. If question 2 actually said "check your answer using reverse order" then the onus would have been on my child


"Check it" is a core instruction word in school now... My 3rd grader gets those exact same words on her homework, has for 2 years now.

All these new buzz words... half the time my kid is teaching me what the homework assignment is before I can help her do it...lol

[hateraid]

lol this. Of course they went over it in class.

Your kid's teacher is right. Don't blame the teacher because your kid can't follow instructions.

Did you bother even reading the rest of the thread? Half his class got it wrong and approached that question the same way

And what if was correct? He was taught it that way in the first place.

Proof right here even adults need thorough instructions to have a proper conclusion

[ace23]

? = 249
? + 379 = 249 + 379 = 628
2? = 2(628 - 379) = 2(249) = 498
-1? = -1(628 - 379) = -1(249) = -249

It checks out.
You're trying way too hard bruh. :facepalm

[YouGotServed]

Did you bother even reading the rest of the thread? Half his class got it wrong and approached that question the same way

Proof right here even adults need thorough instructions to have a proper conclusion

You mad bro?

I don't care if half the class got it wrong. The teacher isn't going to give her/his students homework on something they haven't already gone over in class.

Your kid can't follow instructions.

[hateraid]

You mad bro?

I don't care if half the class got it wrong. The teacher isn't going to give her/his students homework on something they haven't already gone over in class.

Your kid can't follow instructions.

Well you are insulting my child.

The fact that they went over it in class is irrelevant, he approached it the way he was taught. Had the question said, "check your answer using reverse order" and he did it the same way then the intelligence of my son can be questioned

The question is ambiguous enough that he shouldn't be fully accountable

[miller-time]

Did you bother even reading the rest of the thread? Half his class got it wrong and approached that question the same way

And what if was correct? He was taught it that way in the first place.

Proof right here even adults need thorough instructions to have a proper conclusion

First you didn't give us prior instruction, you just gave us the question. If half the class got it wrong then it means half the class got it right. Which means that unless half a class of 4th graders are more perceptive than the adults you have been testing they were most likely given and understood the instructions prior to the test.

Although I am just arguing for arguments sake. Maybe the teacher just delivered the lesson poorly.

[hateraid]

First you didn't give us prior instruction, you just gave us the question. If half the class got it wrong then it means half the class got it right. Which means that unless half a class of 4th graders are more perceptive than the adults you have been testing they were most likely given and understood the instructions prior to the test.

Although I am just arguing for arguments sake. Maybe the teacher just delivered the lesson poorly.

That's exactly my point. The reason I asked the question I the OP is I'm assuming we all learned reverse order, I wanted to test to see how adults approached it. The fact only half my son's class got it wrong also shows the delivery was poor. Combine that with the fact he wasn't taught it should raise flags.

In any case the teacher reviewed that question with the whole class so I'm confident every kid has learned that process

[-p.tiddy-]

spit in her face and punch her in the gut as hard as you can, and while she is gasping for air grab her hair and pull her toward you and whisper "if my son ever gets less than a 90 again I'll make sure you are never capable of having a son of your own...understand me whore?"

that will probably be my approach to this situation when my son is in grade school if he ever makes less than an A...

[cuad]

Please, dude. Your kid obviously spaced out when the teacher showed the class how the check their answers.

[sundizz]

Did you bother even reading the rest of the thread? Half his class got it wrong and approached that question the same way

And what if was correct? He was taught it that way in the first place.

Proof right here even adults need thorough instructions to have a proper conclusion

No, the kid was wrong. The parent is even wayyyy more wrong for making a big deal out of the result as opposed to the process. It's sad that your need to be right is going to be passed on to your kid and will hamper your kids ability to adapt and be flexible. Unless you made a big deal of it, the kid would simply LEARN from this experience instead of viewing it/his teacher negatively.

They'd either learn to check their work, or to listen more carefully in class, or to ask their teacher if they weren't sure. Those are the skills that school should be teaching (and you should be supporting). Not whether they got 100% on some stupid question.

It is more than likely that the teacher told the students exactly what the check it part of the problem meant in class. Kids just forget, or don't listen.

Either way, it's something that will happen one time and will teach a kid (with a tiny minor penalty like this) the importance of showing that you can prove your work. Most kids (and adults) are in a hurry. Check it simply is a way for kids to slow down and repeat the process to truly drive home a concept.

It's the same reason they have to write/answer questions about a book they've read. It sucks, but to really get the point of something in your long-term you really need to put effort/work into it to make it stick.

*There are some teachers who just aren't great. Some are mean. I'm not defending teachers, but rather the concept of how you handled this "teachable moment". It's why a lot of Americans kid suck at school. They get the mentality from home that everything needs to be perfectly explained and that it is okay to be negative about grades/results. In South Korea (where i lived/taught), the kid would of had the opposite have happened. The parent would of said this is your fault...if you didn't know what it meant you should of asked your teacher or figured it out yourself. Just because other students got it wrong doesn't mean you have to be mediocre like them. Neither way is perfect but hopefully you understand the big impact you have on how your kid handles future tough academic situations.

[oh the horror]

IMO if half the class got it wrong then maybe the teacher should "check" her methods for delivering that lesson again.


No biggie. But half a class is a lot.

[hateraid]

No, the kid was wrong. The parent is even wayyyy more wrong for making a big deal out of the result as opposed to the process. It's sad that your need to be right is going to be passed on to your kid and will hamper your kids ability to adapt and be flexible. Unless you made a big deal of it, the kid would simply LEARN from this experience instead of viewing it/his teacher negatively.

That was my reaction to somebody who drew a conclusion then used it to insult my child


They'd either learn to check their work, or to listen more carefully in class, or to ask their teacher if they weren't sure. Those are the skills that school should be teaching (and you should be supporting). Not whether they got 100% on some stupid question.

I take it that you're either a teacher or are close to an educator. You're definitely not a parent. As a parent I would think I have a right to review my kid's material and question it myself if even I didn't understand the direction. As evident to when I made the OP half the adults questioned what that second question meant.

And where are you drawing a conclusion that that I'm against kids checking their work? My concern was my kid DID check his work, got the question right, but told he was wrong because the second question wasn't done correctly. My only concern was the clarity. And by all means I'm not a pushy parent, I've never pushed my kid into achieving the highest grades possible. I accept my kid for who he is. You're being pretty presumptuous and have taken it as far as insulting my parenting. The fact that I did care enough to question shows I care about his education.



It is more than likely that the teacher told the students exactly what the check it part of the problem meant in class. Kids just forget, or don't listen.

And I took that into account. But if HALF the class got it wrong then there's obviously an issue with how it was taught. Had my son been the ONLY kid who had got it wrong then yes I can be called out for over reacting


Either way, it's something that will happen one time and will teach a kid (with a tiny minor penalty like this) the importance of showing that you can prove your work. Most kids (and adults) are in a hurry. Check it simply is a way for kids to slow down and repeat the process to truly drive home a concept.

As I pointed out, he did, and was penalized. Not a way to encourage a kid to learn. Especially when he did "check it". Like I said, I have no issues with having teachers encourage kids to check their answers. Once you understand my point maybe you can realize what it is I'm griping about.


It's the same reason they have to write/answer questions about a book they've read. It sucks, but to really get the point of something in your long-term you really need to put effort/work into it to make it stick.

*There are some teachers who just aren't great. Some are mean. I'm not defending teachers, but rather the concept of how you handled this "teachable moment". It's why a lot of Americans kid suck at school. They get the mentality from home that everything needs to be perfectly explained and that it is okay to be negative about grades/results. In South Korea (where i lived/taught), the kid would of had the opposite have happened. The parent would of said this is your fault...if you didn't know what it meant you should of asked your teacher or figured it out yourself. Just because other students got it wrong doesn't mean you have to be mediocre like them. Neither way is perfect but hopefully you understand the big impact you have on how your kid handles future tough academic situations.

Ahh, so you are a teacher.
Don't get me wrong, I applaud what you do. By no means am I insulting teaching nor do I think my son's teacher is a bad teacher, this particular example is making me cautious because I felt that particular instance isn't educating my son.
Look, my mom was a teacher in the US, my cousin is currently a teacher, my dad could have been a professor in Criminology had he stayed in the Philippines. I understand the value of an educator. Just understand where I'm coming from as a parent. I've already been through 3 teachers with my son and I think they did a wonderful job. my son was never the brightest, and I've always accepted that, but when something to me isn't clear, I'm going to question that.

[hateraid]

IMO if half the class got it wrong then maybe the teacher should "check" her methods for delivering that lesson again.


No biggie. But half a class is a lot.

precisely my point

[Josh]

Did he miss the check it part? because thats probably more on him than anyone else. i doubt an adult would remember to do something so simple like that, but im sure thats the way they teach him in grade school and have them repeatedly do it.

however, i agree its dumb that they mark him down 50% for not checking. i reminds me of "not showing your work" on math tests back in teh day, so the teacher doesnt give you credit. not everyone needs to write shit on paper in order to get the answer

These simple and basic mind-**** questions are stupid and silly. Some people (such as your kid's teacher) think they're cute and dude'e sick probably gets all hard when he explains it and his student's faces light up with the "Aha" moment.

There's really no purpose to a "trick question" ... people waste time, etc developing the question, putting it into practice and then discussing it. I'm not trying to be a killjoy here, I just find very little purpose behind these.

I do however like those little brain teasers ... you know, something like having:

doc
doc

or

doctor + doctor

People scratch their heads and give up - then you tell them it's a paradox.

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/images/smilies/new6-05/jackoff.gif

[shaq2000]

You're trying way too hard bruh. :facepalm

No, it checks, watch.

Take the natural log of both sides.

ln(?) = ln(628 - 379) = ln(249)

Now divide by i

ln(?)/i = ln(249)/i

Now square both sides

ln(?)^2/i^2 = ln(249)^2/i^2

Now multiply by -1

ln(?) = ln(249)

Now raise both sides, base e

e^ln(?) = e^ln(249)
? = 249

Done. ? equals 249. Verified.

[Rake2204]

I think it's a little tough for anyone here to have a legitimate grip on the situation in this case, since no one knows what was taught, how it was taught, how much of a dent this assignment made on one's overall grade, and myriad other factors. There seems to at least be some possibilities though:

1) Maybe the teacher was too vague

2) Maybe the teacher taught the lesson well but worded the question poorly on the assignment

3) Maybe the teacher was perfectly clear in what "check" was supposed to mean in this situation and some kids just missed the boat

Regardless, the manner with which one "checks" is not always universal. A lot of educators have slight variants on the lingo they use to describe certain necessary actions. In this case, it would seem this particular "check" was in clear reference to what CelticGarlic illustrated in the third post of this thread. In terms of mathematics, the various forms of checking answers is very, very crucial, as I'm supposing you may agree.

The good news is the teacher sounds like a pro. No educator nails their lessons and assignments 100% of the time, but it surely sounds like they knew something may have been lost in translation, so they addressed the question in class. That's how it's supposed to be done.

[ace23]

No, it checks, watch.

Take the natural log of both sides.

ln(?) = ln(628 - 379) = ln(249)

Now divide by i

ln(?)/i = ln(249)/i

Now square both sides

ln(?)^2/i^2 = ln(249)^2/i^2

Now multiply by -1

ln(?) = ln(249)

Now raise both sides, base e

e^ln(?) = e^ln(249)
? = 249

Done. ? equals 249. Verified.
:facepalm

[The_Yearning]

Grades k-12 is useless bro, who cares.

[miller-time]

And I took that into account. But if HALF the class got it wrong then there's obviously an issue with how it was taught. Had my son been the ONLY kid who had got it wrong then yes I can be called out for over reacting

How many students are in the class?

[Cowboy Thunder]

ur kids must smoke blunts of kush and listen to rap music like the rest of ish

[CelticBaller]

1. 628 - 379= 249

2. 249 + 379 = 628
this

[hateraid]

Your kid got it wrong, chill out. Maybe the question could've been worded better, or maybe half the class didn't listen to the way they were taught? Just because half got it wrong doesn't mean the teacher is to blame. Haven't you ever taken a test where the entire class fails except for one person? You can't tell me that you sat in the room when they learned the lesson and learned what 'check it' meant.

Don't act like this is a college thesis that your kid whiffed on, it's a meaningless two part problem.

:wtf:
It is 100% the teacher's fault. You think a teacher deserves their job if only 50% of their students are passing?

[hateraid]

I think it's a little tough for anyone here to have a legitimate grip on the situation in this case, since no one knows what was taught, how it was taught, how much of a dent this assignment made on one's overall grade, and myriad other factors. There seems to at least be some possibilities though:

1) Maybe the teacher was too vague

2) Maybe the teacher taught the lesson well but worded the question poorly on the assignment

3) Maybe the teacher was perfectly clear in what "check" was supposed to mean in this situation and some kids just missed the boat

Regardless, the manner with which one "checks" is not always universal. A lot of educators have slight variants on the lingo they use to describe certain necessary actions. In this case, it would seem this particular "check" was in clear reference to what CelticGarlic illustrated in the third post of this thread. In terms of mathematics, the various forms of checking answers is very, very crucial, as I'm supposing you may agree.

The good news is the teacher sounds like a pro. No educator nails their lessons and assignments 100% of the time, but it surely sounds like they knew something may have been lost in translation, so they addressed the question in class. That's how it's supposed to be done.

Repped.
:applause:

[hateraid]

How many students are in the class?

Between 20-25

[kNicKz]

1) 249

2) 249 √

:roll:

[miller-time]

I have multiple examples of only 1-3 people passing a test out of 20+ people that took it. At least two of the examples were in a class taught by arguably the best teacher I've ever had.

Exactly. Also not every student may have failed due to poor instruction but rather simply because some students just don't pay attention anyway. If there are 20 kids in the class and 10 passed, 10 failed, but 5 of the failing students were inattentive students anyway then it means that only 25% (the remaining 5) of the students didn't understand or didn't retain the lesson. There are a multitude of factors that can create these results. If they learnt the lesson but didn't retain it because they were too busy thinking about recess then that is their fault.

[gts]

IMO if half the class got it wrong then maybe the teacher should "check" her methods for delivering that lesson again.


No biggie. But half a class is a lot.

At that age not really... I volunteer in my daughters 3rd grade class, grading homework and tests.. The kids are all over the place, they each take different tests depending on how they're doing, you pass you move on fail take it again... you have 3 or 4 running away passing every math test, a whole clump of them scattered around the high to low end of the mid level tests and a handful stuck in the lower level tests... There's probably 48 different tests in all and I'd venture that of the class's 24 kids they are on 15 different tests at any given time

Having half the class mess up a math assignment isn't odd at all when you're talking about 8 and 9 or 10 year olds...

Hateraid is this the same teacher you had problems with before on some other topic? Maybe you should just have the kid transferred to another teacher you feel more comfortable with

[hateraid]

Quit painting in such broad strokes. It's not '100% the teacher's fault'. It can be the teacher's fault, the students' fault, or a combination of the two.

Only half your class understands a simple problem? teachers fault


You have no firsthand evidence of how something was taught and therefore have no concrete proof it's the teacher's fault.

Assume much? You've basically already made up which side your on despite the fact

- The assignment did not indicate clearly the correct answer
- I asked my son if he learned the material in class
- half the class got it wrong
- the teacher either taught, retaught, and re-reviewed the answer because such a simple question as checking your answer and doing it correctly should not have been missed by half the class

That's proof enough



If the teacher taught this poorly, but your kid got the answer right and a 2/2 on the assignment, would you have made this thread? I doubt it. You're just upset that your kid got points taken off of something.

I'm not upset he got it wrong. Kid will get it wrong a lot of the time. I don't agree with penalizing a kid with a question that had no clarity nor merit to the fact he got the initial question right


It's not unreasonable for half the students to f*ck up one meaningless assignment. It's not like half the class is failing the year.

And he's not failing himself. But he didn't "fvck up a meaningless assignment". It's about being thoroughly taught


I have multiple examples of only 1-3 people passing a test out of 20+ people that took it. At least two of the examples were in a class taught by arguably the best teacher I've ever had.

:oldlol: Those are high school or college situations. This would be unacceptable for grade 4. If a grade 4 teacher had a test where only 3 out of 20 kids passed, that is a piss poor teacher.

[hateraid]

At that age not really... I volunteer in my daughters 3rd grade class, grading homework and tests.. The kids are all over the place, they each take different tests depending on how they're doing, you pass you move on fail take it again... you have 3 or 4 running away passing every math test, a whole clump of them scattered around the high to low end of the mid level tests and a handful stuck in the lower level tests... There's probably 48 different tests in all and I'd venture that of the class's 24 kids they are on 15 different tests at any given time

Having half the class mess up a math assignment isn't odd at all when you're talking about 8 and 9 or 10 year olds...

Hateraid is this the same teacher you had problems with before on some other topic? Maybe you should just have the kid transferred to another teacher you feel more comfortable with

I did. This teacher physically hurt my kid which I dealt with and we came to an agreement. That situation was difused

I understand completely what you're saying. Ultimately I don't discredit this teacher because she knows her job better than me.
Also, I coach my kid's soccer team. So I understand how hard it is to get the attention of a group of kids.
But let's say half my kid's couldn't get one simple drill I'd have to question the method in which I coach.

[chosen_one6]

At virtually every level of mathematics I've ever been in, checking your answer means going in reverse. Even in my college calculus class it was practically the same thing (if there wasn't a variable)

It seemed like the answer to OP was obvious to me, however I can definitely see how a kid and their parent would look at that and say "wtf?"

[hateraid]

Exactly. Also not every student may have failed due to poor instruction but rather simply because some students just don't pay attention anyway. If there are 20 kids in the class and 10 passed, 10 failed, but 5 of the failing students were inattentive students anyway then it means that only 25% (the remaining 5) of the students didn't understand or didn't retain the lesson. There are a multitude of factors that can create these results. If they learnt the lesson but didn't retain it because they were too busy thinking about recess then that is their fault.

I am fully aware of this fact.
But if the question were to have asked "check your answer with reverse order" maybe more if not all the kids would have passed. Now wouldn't that have been a win win situation? the teacher gets merit for all her kids comprehending and applying the material taught

sorry if I'm getting agitated but I feel I'm getting painted as hating this teacher or questioning the school system. I was more questioning the clarity of this one assignment. even with presenting the facts that I did this should have been a case where the teacher flubbed one assignment, instead it's shitting on hateraid for being an overbearing parent

[gts]

I did. This teacher physically hurt my kid which I dealt with and we came to an agreement

I understand completely what you're saying. Ultimately I don't discredit this teacher because she knows her job better than me.
Also, I coach my kid's soccer team. So I understand how hard it is to get the attention of a group of kids.
But let's say half my kid's couldn't get one simple drill I'd have to question the method in which I coach.


Well just understand math is very foreign to some kids.. they zone out, soccer is fun, for some math is a living nightmare.... lol

Now you and your son know what "check it" means, shouldn't be a problem... Thing is don't be afraid to talk to the teacher.. they use words in math now that I never heard when i went to school.

I've had to run to the computer to look things up on more than one occasion

[hateraid]

At virtually every level of mathematics I've ever been in, checking your answer means going in reverse. Even in my college calculus class it was practically the same thing (if there wasn't a variable)

It seemed like the answer to OP was obvious to me, however I can definitely see how a kid and their parent would look at that and say "wtf?"

Thanks, I appreciate that

:cheers:

We can't just assume that all kids would have applied that method. My point is these kids who didn't use it should not be fully penalized
We're arguing an interpretation of a 9 year old.

[hateraid]

Well just understand math is very foreign to some kids.. they zone out, soccer is fun, for some math is a living nightmare.... lol

Now you and your son know what "check it" means, shouldn't be a problem... Thing is don't be afraid to talk to the teacher.. they use words in math now that I never heard when i went to school.

I've had to run to the computer to look things up on more than one occasion


Absolutely. :oldlol:
My whole point is that he did check it yet was not given credit. That was really my only concern. Just a dad being a dad

thanks for at least being civil and not being condescending about it

repped
:cheers:

[chosen_one6]

Thanks, I appreciate that

:cheers:

We can't just assume that all kids would have applied that method. My point is these kids who didn't use it should not be fully penalized
We're arguing an interpretation of a 9 year old.

Yea, the teacher should have known beforehand that such a vague instruction would have led to different types of interpretations of the answer.

[gts]

Absolutely. :oldlol:
My whole point is that he did check it yet was not given credit. That was really my only concern. Just a dad being a dad

thanks for at least being civil and not being condescending about it

repped
:cheers:

haha being the father of three I know exactly where you were coming from... I've certainly had a few go rounds with various teachers over the years..

If you ever get a chance to volunteer in the class on a regular basis you should do it.. the kid loves it, actually all the kids do, dads in the class are rare but more importantly it's an eye opener... You couldn't pay me to be a teacher :lol

[Josh]

I did. This teacher physically hurt my kid which I dealt with and we came to an agreement. That situation was difused.

Wait, what? Diffused my ass. The teacher actually physically hurt your child?! This is what I don't get, you created this thread calling out this teacher over some math problem but the underlining significance here is this teacher putting his hands on your son. Let's actually go ahead and get the scale out.

Physical harm to my son ___ 628 - three hunny and seven some shit

Is this even up for debate? What you should do is next field trip, the night before, equip your car, truck, van or whatever with bombs, missiles, spiked dildos, some automobile worthy medieval bedevilment type shit. Also get your buddies to participate. Have them fix up their rides to reflect what you've done, just ask them to spice it up a bit with custom grimy looking paint jobs strictly for cool points.

Do you see where I'm going with this? On that day of the field trip you and about three or four of your buddies are going to play some MadMax with the school bus, the school bus driver and the kids. While it's unlikely, we're hoping the teacher himself will be driving the school bus. We wanna rock out with our cocks out when we pound on this mutha****er, bring his ass to new heights he's never even dreamed of.

As soon as the bus hits the exits onto the highway let the games begin. Yes, your son will be on the bus, but if you're willing to care more about an enigmatic math problem instead of your son's physical well being then playing MadMax with the school bus shouldn't be much of an issue, right?

:confusedshrug:

Besides, those buses these days are built like a beast. But we're not just looking to swing into it a couple of times, you know, just to scare him (teacher) a bit (and at that point the kids will probably be scared to death - if we're lucky maybe two or three of them will have had strokes or minor heart attacks... if so, SCORE!)

Now the primary objective is to have this bitch all over the national 6 o'clock evening news. A life or two might have to be lost in the process - hopefully not your sons, but the real problem in all this is the math problem, your boys physical well being ranks pretty low on the totem bowl, right? So, considering loss of life is goal, we'll have to do more than merely b ump the bus. We must flip the ****er. If you and a couple of your buds can crush some Budweisers and do a couple rails beforehand that'll probably help, and surely be more fun.

If it'll make you feel better, the night before pack your son's backpack with a helmet, elbow and knee pads and a note explaining how to survive this whole ordeal, but try to keep the note simple, non-complicated, like the math problem, after all that's the reason behind all this bullshit to begin with. So save son by packing safety stuff - great if you do, not a biggie if you don't.

Flame throwers on the vehicles is something I strongly recommend. Unfortunately, I doubt you have fireproof gear for you boy so keep in mind you run the risk of torching dude.

Wait, stop. I'm not doing this. I'm not going any further. If you go through with it and do it next field day, whatever. I don't think you will. However if you do it's not my fault. It's that damn bitch ass math problem's fault! Got damn complications ****ing with our mental interiors, even though kids are being beat on their exteriors. Smash a little boy's face into the wall, that's OK, just don't send his ass home with abstract math problems.

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/images/smilies/new6-05/crazy.gif

[Deuce Bigalow]

1) 249

2) 249 √
:applause: :oldlol:

[PHX_Phan]

I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. I remember in my math classes getting the right answer to the question was only half of your score and the other half was on using a particular method being taught to solve the problem. For instance learning the order of operations, the questions themselves are sort of meaningless, it has more to do with showing that you used a particular method to get your answer.


There is really no way of knowing, none of us were present to see the lesson, whether or not the instructions were vague or what stage it was in. For all we know, the lesson was on reverse order. This is a pretty basic subtraction question at the 4th grade level, I'm sure they're not testing the kids' ability to subtract one whole number from another.

[VIntageNOvel]

1) 249

2) 249 √

this deserve full mark and bonus point :roll:

[Dresta]

Frequently used to get average marks in school Maths tests for not showing proper working, which i always felt was bullshit. If you give me questions so easy i can do them comfortably without writing anything down then why should i have to waste my time with superfluous 'workings out'?

Teacher should be questioned for being a vague bitch.

[hateraid]

I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. I remember in my math classes getting the right answer to the question was only half of your score and the other half was on using a particular method being taught to solve the problem. For instance learning the order of operations, the questions themselves are sort of meaningless, it has more to do with showing that you used a particular method to get your answer.


There is really no way of knowing, none of us were present to see the lesson, whether or not the instructions were vague or what stage it was in. For all we know, the lesson was on reverse order. This is a pretty basic subtraction question at the 4th grade level, I'm sure they're not testing the kids' ability to subtract one whole number from another.

thanks for your input. But I find it funny that these educators who are not involved in this particular case automatically placed the blame on my child and me. Even though I had more involvementand know this situation first hand. Kid didn't learn therfore it's the kid's fault. For shame educators, you need to take more accountability

[rufuspaul]

Poor kid will never get into a good college now. Best to prepare for a career in food service.

[hateraid]

Poor kid will never get into a good college now. Best to prepare for a career in food service.
Cross my fingers!

I've always wanted discount and swag at Carl's Jr

[Nick Young]

My kid came home with a marked assignment in which he was only rewarded 50%. The questions were in 2 parts. I was a little pissed as to why my son did not receive full marks. I will explain later as to why he was only rewarded half the credit. I've shown this too some of my peers/family and half of them got question 2 wrong.

Here is 1 example of the 2 part question:

1) 628 - 379 = ?

2) Check it


No other instructions were given. Now answer this for me please
This was grade 1 level math back in my day bruh. We were doing long division in 3rd and basic algebra in 4th. Is your kid slow or did American schools get stupider?

[gts]

I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. I remember in my math classes getting the right answer to the question was only half of your score and the other half was on using a particular method being taught to solve the problem. For instance learning the order of operations, the questions themselves are sort of meaningless, it has more to do with showing that you used a particular method to get your answer.

This brings up a point I forgot earlier

Last year I had been helping my daughter with some home work.. basic drill is she does the work then I look it over, check spelling or that the numbers add up right, then she'd fix what was wrong..

I got a note from the teacher that said something like...

For now early in the school year don't correct her homework. It's more important to know what she's doing wrong than it is to be right.

She went on to explain she doesn't even grade the homework, she just wants it to be done, that the practice of doing the work, building those skills for the following years is more important than it's being done correctly.. She explained she didn't want it to be a chore that ruined the kids afternoon but just an extension of her day at school....

[hateraid]

This was grade 1 level math back in my day bruh. We were doing long division in 3rd and basic algebra in 4th. Is your kid slow or did American schools get stupider?

Are you implying my kid is writing this material? Yeah, it's obviously my son :rolleyes:

[Nick Young]

Are you implying my kid is writing this material? Yeah, it's obviously my son :rolleyes:
I'm implying he's being taught the material 2 years past the age when I was taught it when I went to elementary school. In 4th grade hes doing basic subtraction and I remember my class was learning basic algebra. Is he delayed or have schools gotten easier and slower is what Im asking.

[hateraid]

This brings up a point I forgot earlier

Last year I had been helping my daughter with some home work.. basic drill is she does the work then I look it over, check spelling or that the numbers add up right, then she'd fix what was wrong..

I got a note from the teacher that said something like...

For now early in the school year don't correct her homework. It's more important to know what she's doing wrong than it is to be right.

She went on to explain she doesn't even grade the homework, she just wants it to be done, that the practice of doing the work, building those skills for the following years is more important than it's being done correctly.. She explained she didn't want it to be a chore that ruined the kids afternoon but just an extension of her day at school....

Good way to look at it. Sounds like your kids are set on a good path of learning.
But it has to fall into the hands of the educator too. This is why this thread is kind of frustrating is because my kid is bright, yet the teachers are pointing the finger at the kid and the parent saying that they are wrong or your kid is not paying attention. Fairly presumptuous no? Kid got it wrong, therefor it's the kid's fault? Not very encouraging.
I try not to involve myself too much in my son's homework as I feel too he needs to understand not just the answer but how and why he got to it.

[hateraid]

I'm implying he's being taught the material 2 years past the age when I was taught it when I went to elementary school. In 4th grade hes doing basic subtraction and I remember my class was learning basic algebra. Is he delayed or have schools gotten easier and slower is what Im asking.

Sorry if I took it as an insult.
No my kid is not slow or in any special needs school. This is the actual assignment. But the way this assignment was laid out it looked like they were covering carrying over. I'm sure there's a lot more advanced math they are learning. this was just one assignment I had to review because he got lower than 60% which the school has a rule parents have to see and sign work that is below satisfactory. Again, I don't often have him come home with assignments to look over or go over all his homework with him because he does that independently. I help him very little.

[hateraid]

Hateraid you need to surround yourself with some smarter people if half the people you asked couldn't figure that out


:lol
Touche, but obviously everyone knew the answer when they were given clearer direction

[Rake2204]

thanks for your input. But I find it funny that these educators who are not involved in this particular case automatically placed the blame on my child and me. Even though I had more involvementand know this situation first hand. Kid didn't learn therfore it's the kid's fault. For shame educators, you need to take more accountabilityEducators can be very sensitive to stories like these, especially with so many vague details one has no way of knowing.

The original post was somewhat open to interpretation, so I'd say it's to be expected that educators, who deal with situations like these all the time, may provide the other side of the coin. As I mentioned in my previous post, I suggested this scenario's blame could have ranged from falling directly onto the kids, directly onto the teacher, or a little bit of both. With such a lack of details, no one can really know where the blame may lay, but I always think it's worth considering all sides of a story.

Educators surely make mistakes. But they also face many stories similar to your own where the educator has done virtually everything in their power for a classroom only to have parents nitpick and wrongfully place blame for either their own shortcomings or their kid's unwillingness to cooperate or work. So again, even if you were right in this situation (we don't know), educators see these complaints virtually every day (except they're dealing with 30 sets of parents, not just one). The sensitivity is just going to be there to situations like these, and I think that's okay.

Clearly, both sides of the equation sometimes take it too far. There's teachers who assume nothing they do is wrong, but then there's parents who constantly update their status on my Facebook feed about how awful their child's teacher is because their kid had to stay inside for recess after refusing to work and disrupting the class. As with nearly everything, a little moderation (and willingness to place one in another's shoes) can often go a long way. I think some of the presumptions of other posters here may be a mere reflection of an insinuated presumption on your part in the original post. Whether that was intentional on your part or not, the first post kind of came across as a setup to criticize the educator in this case. And again, with such vague details, I think some saw that angle and thought, "Yeah, or maybe the blame may lay elsewhere."

Separately, I thought this was a good article I read recently on the state of public school teaching: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/12/31/i-would-love-to-teach-but/

[Rake2204]

My friend teaches 8th grade. She got in trouble at work for failing too many students, as failing them "hurts their self esteem". It's gross.Yeah, unfortunately that's real. An excerpt from the story I linked above:


It was about this time that I was called down to the principal’s office with a terse e-mail that read only, “I need to speak with you.” Clueless, I took down my grade sheets, communication logs, lesson plans, and sat down as an adult still summoned down to the principal’s office. “I need to talk to you about these students.” She handed me a list of about 10 students, all of whom had D’s or F’s. At the time, I only had about 120 students, so I was relatively on par with a standard bell curve. As she brought up each one, I walked her through my grade sheets that showed not low scores but a failure to turn in work—a lack of responsibility. I showed her my tutoring logs, my letters to parents, only to be interrogated further.

Eventually, the meeting came down to two quotes that I will forever remember as the defining slogans for public education:

“They are not allowed to fail.”

“If they have D’s or F’s, there is something that you are not doing for them.”

What am I not doing for them? I suppose I was not giving them the answers, I was not physically picking up their hands to write for them, I was not following them home each night to make sure they did their work on time, I was not excusing their lack of discipline, I was not going back in time and raising them from birth, but I could do none of these things. I was called down to the principal’s office many more times before I was broken, before I ended up assigning stupid assignments for large amounts of credit, ones I knew I could get students to do. Even then, I still had students failing, purely through their own refusal to put any sort of effort into anything, and I had lowered the bar so much that it took hardly anything to pass.

According to the rubrics set forth by the county, if they wrote a single word on their paper, related or not to the assignment, I had to give them a 48 percent. Yet, students chose to do nothing. Why? Because we are forced to pass them. “They are not allowed to fail,” remember? Teachers are held to impossible standards, and students are accountable for hardly any part of their own education and are incapable of failing. I learned quickly that if I graded students accurately on their poor performance, then I have failed, not them. The attention is turned on me, the teacher, who is criticized, evaluated, and penalized for the fleeting wills of adolescents.

[PHX_Phan]

thanks for your input. But I find it funny that these educators who are not involved in this particular case automatically placed the blame on my child and me. Even though I had more involvementand know this situation first hand. Kid didn't learn therfore it's the kid's fault. For shame educators, you need to take more accountability

Because you are omitting the entire lesson and asking us to decide if it was a vague lesson or not.

Just by looking at this question, I can tell it is a lower level of math than your kid is probably learning, therefore I'd assume the lesson had more to do with how it was solved rather than just providing a correct answer and working out basic subtraction.

The fact that half of the class got it right tells me that it's probably not so much on the educator. I'm guessing this isn't some midterm exam, probably a pop quiz on the days lesson that doesn't account for much of the kids grade.

No one is really 'blaming' your kid. Part of the learning process is not to be right 100% of the time. In my math classes I was marked down for things like this plenty of times and still managed to get into AP math classes. It's not a big deal, kid is only in 4th grade.

[hateraid]

Educators can be very sensitive to stories like these, especially with so many vague details one has no way of knowing.

The original post was somewhat open to interpretation, so I'd say it's to be expected that educators, who deal with situations like these all the time, may provide the other side of the coin. As I mentioned in my previous post, I suggested this scenario's blame could have ranged from falling directly onto the kids, directly onto the teacher, or a little bit of both. With such a lack of details, no one can really know where the blame may lay, but I always think it's worth considering all sides of a story.

Educators surely make mistakes. But they also face many stories similar to your own where the educator has done virtually everything in their power for a classroom only to have parents nitpick and wrongfully place blame for either their own shortcomings or their kid's unwillingness to cooperate or work. So again, even if you were right in this situation (we don't know), educators see these complaints virtually every day (except they're dealing with 30 sets of parents, not just one). The sensitivity is just going to be there to situations like these, and I think that's okay.

Clearly, both sides of the equation sometimes take it too far. There's teachers who assume nothing they do is wrong, but then there's parents who constantly update their status on my Facebook feed about how awful their child's teacher is because their kid had to stay inside for recess after refusing to work and disrupting the class. As with nearly everything, a little moderation (and willingness to place one in another's shoes) can often go a long way. I think some of the presumptions of other posters here may be a mere reflection of an insinuated presumption on your part in the original post. Whether that was intentional on your part or not, the first post kind of came across as a setup to criticize the educator in this case. And again, with such vague details, I think some saw that angle and thought, "Yeah, or maybe the blame may lay elsewhere."

Separately, I thought this was a good article I read recently on the state of public school teaching: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/12/31/i-would-love-to-teach-but/

Another excellent post by the way!

I actually had the opportunity to talk to my mom who was an elementary teacher in Pennsylvania about this situation this morning. Her comment to that specific question in the OP was if he got the first question right then he understood how he got the answer. The second part should not have been graded but it was necessary that reverse order was crucial to that follow up question to show the teacher he did understand how he got question 1. But it wasn't clear enough of a question for a 9 year old to grasp so he shouldn't be punished if he did in fact do work that was relevant.
I have no problem with that response because the onus was both on the teacher AND the student. THIS was more the answer (along with yourself and GTS identified) I was was looking for and it helped create comfort in this situation. I am more comfortable admitting maybe my kid's comprehension might have been lacking. Instead what I'm getting is "no your kid is wrong, you're a bad parent."
Can you see where the parent is coming from?
Maybe this is a case where both parties need to put themselves in the shoes of the other. Speaking on the parents side the teachers also need to see that not ALL parents are out to blame the teachers.

[hateraid]

Because you are omitting the entire lesson and asking us to decide if it was a vague lesson or not.

Just by looking at this question, I can tell it is a lower level of math than your kid is probably learning, therefore I'd assume the lesson had more to do with how it was solved rather than just providing a correct answer and working out basic subtraction.

The fact that half of the class got it right tells me that it's probably not so much on the educator. I'm guessing this isn't some midterm exam, probably a pop quiz on the days lesson that doesn't account for much of the kids grade.

No one is really 'blaming' your kid. Part of the learning process is not to be right 100% of the time. In my math classes I was marked down for things like this plenty of times and still managed to get into AP math classes. It's not a big deal, kid is only in 4th grade.
Thanks for that.
The way I read the lesson it was more a lesson on carrying over. Also evident when I asked my kid had he learned reverse order and he said no. which to me means he probably learned it at some point in the year but was not reviewed in regards to this specific assignment.
Also the fact the half the class got it wrong indicates the question wasn't clear or may not have been reviewed previous to this assignment.
Give a little credit to my son. I know your trying to be a devil's advocate but put some onus on the teacher as well if you want to come off as impartial.

[sundizz]

Well, i really don't know what you expected coming here. You never responded to what i said btw (apple doesn't fall far from the tree i guess). Likely, cuz it isn't what you wanted to hear.

It's sad that parents give their kids so much importance in these matters. No one remembers or cares about what happened at that age. All that matters is the feelings/repressed feelings they develop at that age. It's really sad to me when parents make such a big out of tiny inconsequential stuff like this. It teaches a mentality of fear, or reprisal, and the importance of nonsense.

If you really want your kid to be good at math you get him a private tutor for 1 hour a week. He'll learn more in one hour with a private tutor than he would all week at school. School is for socializing and learning how to accept failure, how to accept success and how to fit in. You putting this nonsense pressure on him about some stupid homework doesn't help. This doesn't mean not to set high standards for him. However, put it on him. Make your kid understand that even if it is the teacher's fault he needs to work harder. Maybe next time he'll raise his hand and ask about it instead of just not caring enough to find out. If half the students got it right...it clearly says that he missed something. Teaching him to blame others when he messes us is just a recipe for academic failure.

As an adult if the manager of department says something and 50% of the workers do it correctly....doesn't it make it the fault of the other 50% that didn't do it correctly? He should struggle to succeed. It's ridiculous how much parents teach their kids to give up. Crying, hating you, hating school...it's all a part of learning to grow. The feeling of succeeding against odds is something that can only be felt....and ingrained when given the opportunity. If you coddle him and defend him like this you are crippling him.

I taught in a foreign country with kids that couldn't even understand the words coming out of my mouth. However, 1 month in every single student in my class knew exactly how to do the homework. Their ability to do it, etc varied but because I unrelentingly did not ease up on what I expected of them they invariably adhered to those standards. If they didn't put their name on it they got a 0. If they didn't put a period at the end of a sentence they got a 0. If they wrote in anything but a pencil they got a 0. If they didn't capitalize the beginning of every sentence they got a 0. It's not that any of that stuff is important. Literally, it's so ridiculously unimportant. However, because of this requirement it changed the culture of the class. I had a "system" also where if one student got a 0 in the group (3 students) on their homework, the entire group started the day off with negative group points.

Honestly, I hated doing it. Some kids here have like 4 hours of afterschool private academies etc. In reality I just wanted them to come to my class and play and enjoy. For my first two years, I had a laissez fair attitude about this attention to detail. It took me two years to realize that kids need this level of structure...there is nothing worse for them than not knowing. Even doing bad is better than not knowing.

Every single kid in my class got in the top 3% of the country on their exams. Some of them finished bottom 10% for other classes. And i'm not saying scores even matter...it's just that they came to my class and liked the feeling of being accountable. Kids that were just "troublemakers" would come in my class, sit down, open their notebook and write the daily journal without any prompting. I taught 4th grade and I knew that in the long run this class would soon be forgotten. However, all I hoped was that they would remember that when they held themselves accountable they could achieve anything they wanted.

I remember in 4th grade I had a project about some book. I completely forgot about and it was due the next day. I also forgot my mom knew that it was due. The night before at 9 she asked me for my project to review it. I tried to lie, but eventually the truth came up that I didn't do it. In 4th grade, she made me stay up all night (and sat with me) until I finished the project. I complained, tried to run out the door, do all sorts of nonsense. Eventually, around 5 am it was done. I hated my life. I hated her. I hated school. I literally was just hating everything. However, I turned it in and the approval I got for having a nice completed project made it a little bit better. I still was hating everything to be honest. Was tired and cranky. For the next 15 years of education I remembered that moment. The confidence I drew from that singular event gave me the ability to overcome every other academic hurdle I faced.

[hateraid]

Well, i really don't know what you expected coming here. You never responded to what i said btw (apple doesn't fall far from the tree i guess). Likely, cuz it isn't what you wanted to hear.

ORLY? Check the 43rd post in this thread. Next time I might not respond if your intention is to insult me. Apple from the tree heh? Only read what you want to read?



It's sad that parents give their kids so much importance in these matters. No one remembers or cares about what happened at that age. All that matters is the feelings/repressed feelings they develop at that age. It's really sad to me when parents make such a big out of tiny inconsequential stuff like this. It teaches a mentality of fear, or reprisal, and the importance of nonsense.

Again very presumptuous. You summed all that up about me from one thread. you're guilty of what you're accusing me of.
The way I see it, teacher/student-parent is a service like a service/customer. There is a right to question when a child's education is involved. By the way you represent yourself you seem like a bitter educator. Get out of the business if you're not happy. No part of a child's education is nonsense.


If you really want your kid to be good at math you get him a private tutor for 1 hour a week. He'll learn more in one hour with a private tutor than he would all week at school. School is for socializing and learning how to accept failure, how to accept success and how to fit in. You putting this nonsense pressure on him about some stupid homework doesn't help. This doesn't mean not to set high standards for him. However, put it on him. Make your kid understand that even if it is the teacher's fault he needs to work harder. Maybe next time he'll raise his hand and ask about it instead of just not caring enough to find out. If half the students got it right...it clearly says that he missed something. Teaching him to blame others when he messes us is just a recipe for academic failure.

I have thought of that route thank you, but your assessment of it is very volatile for an educator. Because I am questioning one assignment you've painted such an overall morbid picture.


As an adult if the manager of department says something and 50% of the workers do it correctly....doesn't it make it the fault of the other 50% that didn't do it correctly? He should struggle to succeed. It's ridiculous how much parents teach their kids to give up. Crying, hating you, hating school...it's all a part of learning to grow. The feeling of succeeding against odds is something that can only be felt....and ingrained when given the opportunity. If you coddle him and defend him like this you are crippling him.

Again, such a bitter POV. And yes if a manager has 50% of his employees who can't do the job, IT IS the issue of the manager. I oversaw a huge area in the company I previously worked for. Training is the main responsibility in that position.


I taught in a foreign country with kids that couldn't even understand the words coming out of my mouth. However, 1 month in every single student in my class knew exactly how to do the homework. Their ability to do it, etc varied but because I unrelentingly did not ease up on what I expected of them they invariably adhered to those standards. If they didn't put their name on it they got a 0. If they didn't put a period at the end of a sentence they got a 0. If they wrote in anything but a pencil they got a 0. If they didn't capitalize the beginning of every sentence they got a 0. It's not that any of that stuff is important. Literally, it's so ridiculously unimportant. However, because of this requirement it changed the culture of the class. I had a "system" also where if one student got a 0 in the group (3 students) on their homework, the entire group started the day off with negative group points.

Honestly, I hated doing it. Some kids here have like 4 hours of afterschool private academies etc. In reality I just wanted them to come to my class and play and enjoy. For my first two years, I had a laissez fair attitude about this attention to detail. It took me two years to realize that kids need this level of structure...there is nothing worse for them than not knowing. Even doing bad is better than not knowing.

Every single kid in my class got in the top 3% of the country on their exams. Some of them finished bottom 10% for other classes. And i'm not saying scores even matter...it's just that they came to my class and liked the feeling of being accountable. Kids that were just "troublemakers" would come in my class, sit down, open their notebook and write the daily journal without any prompting. I taught 4th grade and I knew that in the long run this class would soon be forgotten. However, all I hoped was that they would remember that when they held themselves accountable they could achieve anything they wanted.

I remember in 4th grade I had a project about some book. I completely forgot about and it was due the next day. I also forgot my mom knew that it was due. The night before at 9 she asked me for my project to review it. I tried to lie, but eventually the truth came up that I didn't do it. In 4th grade, she made me stay up all night (and sat with me) until I finished the project. I complained, tried to run out the door, do all sorts of nonsense. Eventually, around 5 am it was done. I hated my life. I hated her. I hated school. I literally was just hating everything. However, I turned it in and the approval I got for having a nice completed project made it a little bit better. I still was hating everything to be honest. Was tired and cranky. For the next 15 years of education I remembered that moment. The confidence I drew from that singular event gave me the ability to overcome every other academic hurdle I faced.

Again, I applaud what you do. But you seem to come from a very bitter place and you are more lashing out on me rather than addressing the issue. If you do want me to respond more then put your indifference aside about parents and lettuce discuss. You're actually a prime example of why parents question teachers. Otherwise take it as you will, not going get into a head butting contest.

[Swaggin916]

1) 249

2) 249 √

That's what I would have done... and what I would have thought they meant just to be tricky or something. But I guess it's just to see if you can add in addition (pardon the pun) to subtracting.

[Balla_Status]

:wtf:
It is 100% the teacher's fault. You think a teacher deserves their job if only 50% of their students are passing?

Sorry your precious little snowflake failed dude. It'll be alright.

[tmacattack33]

Teacher's aren't perfect.

Fukk it.

In elementary school, the point of getting good grades is to impress your parents.

So, just tell your kid that you think the question was a little weird and in your eyes he shouldn't have lost points for that. So if he got 8 out of the other 9 questions right, tell him that in your eyes he got a 88% (8 out of 9 = 88%) on that test.



Also, as said, a lot of times different terms are used by different teachers. "Check it" is pretty damn vague, but it is highly likely that on the chalkboard or in their homework or somewhere previous to this test, this teacher wrote "check it" after a problem and he/she meant to do the problem in reverse.

[miller-time]

Teacher's aren't perfect.

Fukk it.

In elementary school, the point of getting good grades is to impress your parents.

So, just tell your kid that you think the question was a little weird and in your eyes he shouldn't have lost points for that. So if he got 8 out of the other 9 questions right, tell him that in your eyes he got a 88% (8 out of 9 = 88%) on that test.



Also, as said, a lot of times different terms are used by different teachers. "Check it" is pretty damn vague, but it is highly likely that on the chalkboard or in their homework or somewhere previous to this test, this teacher wrote "check it" after a problem and he/she meant to do the problem in reverse.

You are the wind beneath my wings bro.

[ImKobe]

Grades are irrelevant until high school, imo.

[hateraid]

So I had a change to meet with my son's teacher Friday afternoon. I thought this would be a good lead-in into a discussion about how my son is doing overall

Here's what she said about the math question (take not sundizz you salty faknut. This is how a teacher should handle it)

She said that she agreed the question was vague. To her defense she did not write the test herself, it's part of the curriculum. The way it marked is the way the curriculum was laid out. She also said the lesson was not on reverse order but on subtracting using carry overs. So in fact my son did not really get the question wrong, and there was no lesson leading up to this assignment, however it was covered at one point of the year.
She could see why my son, amongst many others had interpreted it the wrong way. In fact the way my son had done it was show his work and it showed the teacher how the lesson would be taught to kids his age. The material was then taught again as a refresher and to put more emphasis on what "check it" means and to use reverse order in the future.
My son has no learning issues nor does he require any additional tutoring outside of the class.

THAT is how an educator should approach this situation. It gives me confidence in the teacher that she is able to take accountability.

It's a shame that the majority of the people will take the side of the teacher and automatically attack my child and me in this situation. Jumped to the conclusion that my son is dumb as opposed to seeing both sides need to take accountability. This teacher instead on blaming my son, and blaming the world took pride in her work and decided to educate, not just teach. Take note educators.

[hateraid]

You set up a meeting over this? Or was this already scheduled or something?

I had concerns about his overall progress. I thought this was a good lead in to that question.

[gts]

So I had a change to meet with my son's teacher Friday afternoon. I thought this would be a good lead-in into a discussion about how my son is doing overall

Here's what she said about the math question (take not sundizz you salty faknut. This is how a teacher should handle it)

She said that she agreed the question was vague. To her defense she did not write the test herself, it's part of the curriculum. The way it marked is the way the curriculum was laid out. She also said the lesson was not on reverse order but on subtracting using carry overs. So in fact my son did not really get the question wrong, and there was no lesson leading up to this assignment, however it was covered at one point of the year.
She could see why my son, amongst many others had interpreted it the wrong way. In fact the way my son had done it was show his work and it showed the teacher how the lesson would be taught to kids his age. The material was then taught again as a refresher and to put more emphasis on what "check it" means and to use reverse order in the future.
My son has no learning issues nor does he require any additional tutoring outside of the class.

THAT is how an educator should approach this situation. It gives me confidence in the teacher that she is able to take accountability.

It's a shame that the majority of the people will take the side of the teacher and automatically attack my child and me in this situation. Jumped to the conclusion that my son is dumb as opposed to seeing both sides need to take accountability. This teacher instead on blaming my son, and blaming the world took pride in her work and decided to educate, not just teach. Take note educators.
Good good.. Sounds like things worked out... Communication is an amazing thing...



Sounds like what I mentioned in an earlier post, part of the new national core standards approach to teaching..

To the bold, you knew that already dad...:cheers:

[-p.tiddy-]

she said all that after you punched her in the stomach like I suggested right?

told you that was the correct way to go about things...you're welcome

[tmacattack33]

You are the wind beneath my wings bro.

Why thank you.

[hateraid]

Good good.. Sounds like things worked out... Communication is an amazing thing...



Sounds like what I mentioned in an earlier post, part of the new national core standards approach to teaching..

To the bold, you knew that already dad...:cheers:

Thanks bud.
I'm glad you came and shared the side of the parent in this thread :cheers:

[hateraid]

she said all that after you punched her in the stomach like I suggested right?

told you that was the correct way to go about things...you're welcome

I took the other route and tried to seduce her.
We scheduled another late night meeting next week........ ;)

[hateraid]

Why thank you.

Your comment was really appreciated though. :cheers:

[Rake2204]

THAT is how an educator should approach this situation. It gives me confidence in the teacher that she is able to take accountability.

It's a shame that the majority of the people will take the side of the teacher and automatically attack my child and me in this situation. Jumped to the conclusion that my son is dumb as opposed to seeing both sides need to take accountability. This teacher instead on blaming my son, and blaming the world took pride in her work and decided to educate, not just teach. Take note educators.I'm glad your issue was successfully worked out. Though I must say, it's my belief you yielded the responses you received in this thread largely through the manner with which you originally presented your problem. Even if it wasn't your intent, your posts can sometimes come across a little abrasive or suggestive when it comes to educators, which in turn puts a number of contributing posters on the defensive.

Your original post felt as though it was merely a build-up toward criticizing teachers. As such, with such limited background information, some (perhaps not always eloquently) pointed out that it could have been something besides the entire fault or willful ignorance of the educator.

Again though, I am glad the educator was professional in addressing the situation. I'm hopeful this can go a long ways toward the realization that most educational employees are merely trying to do their job the best they can and even then, it's still going to result in a lot of imperfections.

[hateraid]

I'm glad your issue was successfully worked out. Though I must say, it's my belief you yielded the responses you received in this thread largely through the manner with which you originally presented your problem. Even if it wasn't your intent, your posts can sometimes come across a little abrasive or suggestive when it comes to educators, which in turn puts a number of contributing posters on the defensive.

Your original post felt as though it was merely a build-up toward criticizing teachers. As such, with such limited background information, some (perhaps not always eloquently) pointed out that it could have been something besides the entire fault or willful ignorance of the educator.

Again though, I am glad the educator was professional in addressing the situation. I'm hopeful this can go a long ways toward the realization that most educational employees are merely trying to do their job the best they can and even then, it's still going to result in a lot of imperfections.

I can see how it comes across that way. That's just me acting as a concerned parent. Maybe secrectly I was embarrassed because I didn't figure out the question myself :lol