Jordan vs Lebron; Who was better at making their teammates better?

[SacJB Shady]

They both played with hall of famers. My friend says Jordan could make his teammates better than Lebron can. But Lebron averages more assists and is a point forward. So which player has more of an impact on their teammates, not counting individual numbers?

[plowking]

Stephen Curry.

[SacJB Shady]

Stephen Curry.


No doubt. But this is between LBJ and Jordan.

[Mr. Jabbar]

well, jordan made them hall of famers...what was wade before lebron? champion and finals mvp. bosh? franchise player top 10 in the league. allen? best shooter in the history of the game and champion. they were great players on their own merit. he did made some scrubs at cleveland look good tho (im lookin at ya jamison)

[Fresh Kid]

well, jordan made them hall of famers...what was wade before lebron? champion and finals mvp. bosh? franchise player top 10 in the league. allen? best shooter in the history of the game and champion. they were great players on their own merit. he did made some scrubs at cleveland look good at cleveland tho (im lookin at ya jamison)
excellent post:applause:

[plowking]

well, jordan made them hall of famers...what was wade before lebron? champion and finals mvp. bosh? franchise player top 10 in the league. allen? best shooter in the history of the game and champion. they were great players on their own merit. he did made some scrubs at cleveland look good tho (im lookin at ya jamison)

But Stephen Curry.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Hard to compare since Lebron's teammates were already champions, FMVPS & All stars before they joined him while as Jordan's teammates came to him as rookies

[hateraid]

Well in all fairness Lebron made Mo Williams look like a legitimate second option and Boobie Gibson look like a 3 point threat. Jordan would have probably mind ****ed them into early retirement.

[Magic 32]

Well in all fairness Lebron made Mo Williams look like a legitimate second option and Boobie Gibson look like a 3 point threat. Jordan would have probably mind ****ed them into early retirement.

Same result.

[Fresh Kid]

Well in all fairness Lebron made Mo Williams look like a legitimate second option and Boobie Gibson look like a 3 point threat. Jordan would have probably mind ****ed them into early retirement.
mo williams was tha bucks 2nd and 3rd option before he went to tha cavs:coleman:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Well in all fairness Lebron made Mo Williams look like a legitimate second option and Boobie Gibson look like a 3 point threat. Jordan would have probably mind ****ed them into early retirement.


Mo had his best year statistically the season before he joined Lebron

[plowking]

Hard to compare since Lebron's teammates were already champions, FMVPS & All stars before they joined him while as Jordan's teammates came to him as rookies

Rodman, Kukoc, Harper, etc were all just rookies and nobodies?

[Fresh Kid]

Rodman, Kukoc, Harper, etc were all just rookies and nobodies?
they werent bosh, allen, and lewis type players:facepalm

[plowking]

Mo had his best year statistically the season before he joined Lebron

His first year in Cleveland was his best statistical year actually. And are you implying best statistically season equals best play of your career?

[plowking]

they werent bosh, allen, and lewis type players:facepalm

Kukoc on the Bulls was better than Allen or Lewis were at any point on the Heat...
Did you even watch the Bulls?

Kukoc was a legit 20/5/5 player on any other team.

[Fresh Kid]

Kukoc on the Bulls was better than Allen or Lewis were at any point on the Heat...
Did you even watch the Bulls?

Kukoc was a legit 20/5/5 player on any other team.
i thought we talkin' about b4 they joined bro:biggums:

[plowking]

i thought we talkin' about b4 they joined bro:biggums:

Its not going to be the same for players at the end of their careers who are 35 and 39 years old.

[ripthekik]

well, jordan made them hall of famers...what was wade before lebron? champion and finals mvp. bosh? franchise player top 10 in the league. allen? best shooter in the history of the game and champion. they were great players on their own merit. he did made some scrubs at cleveland look good tho (im lookin at ya jamison)
shiittee... killed it

[97 bulls]

How does this comparison even begin to make sense? Jordans Bulls and James Heat were formed in two totally different ways. Who knows what Wade and Bosh would be regarded as if they came into the league with an established player in James the way Jordan was. Hell Bosh is looked at as a joke now in spite of what he accomplished in Toronto.

Dennis Rodman had a great career before he joined the Bulls. Kukoc was the best player in Europe when he joined the Bulls. As well as an Olympic Silver medallist. And Scottie Pippen would've been a great player without Jordan.

Damn some of you guys are dumb

[sekachu]

Rodman, Kukoc, Harper, etc were all just rookies and nobodies?




Rodman and harper weren't at their prime when they joined the bulls beside kukoc

[pauk]

Lebron was better at that... but it didnt matter for Jordan, he sure won anyways, he was too good... as he said: "There is no i in team, but there is i in win"

A better argument here would be Jordan vs Kobe or something, two identical mindsets offensively. I hate comparing Lebron to Jordan, offensively he is more closer to Magic or at least Bird offensively, they were more towards that pass-first mindset, caring much more about involving everybody, moving the ball and trusting teammates every single time even in any clutch situation and ofcourse they had kindof better passing/playmaking skills.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kukoc was a legit 20/5/5 player on any other team.

:oldlol:

My ass. In what universe? In '99, when he had everything to himself, he averaged 18.8 ppg (career high) but shot just 42% (and an abysmal 49% TS). Kukoc's peak scoring ability on any type of decent efficient was probably around 16-17 ppg. There are 5 players on the Heat (not including Lebron) who have averaged more than that for several full seasons in their careers.

[Andrei89]

How does this comparison even begin to make sense? Jordans Bulls and James Heat were formed in two totally different ways. Who knows what Wade and Bosh would be regarded as if they came into the league with an established player in James the way Jordan was. Hell Bosh is looked at as a joke now in spite of what he accomplished in Toronto.

Dennis Rodman had a great career before he joined the Bulls. Kukoc was the best player in Europe when he joined the Bulls. As well as an Olympic Silver medallist. And Scottie Pippen would've been a great player without Jordan.

Damn some of you guys are dumb

You take the bait. They say Lebrons teammates are better than Pippen, Kukoc and Dennis Rodman so they can diminish Lebron.

Haters gonna hate.

[Leftimage]

well, jordan made them hall of famers...what was wade before lebron? champion and finals mvp. bosh? franchise player top 10 in the league. allen? best shooter in the history of the game and champion. they were great players on their own merit. he did made some scrubs at cleveland look good tho (im lookin at ya jamison)

This post implies Pippen would not have been an all time great had he been drafted by another team. How do you know that for a fact? I'm willing to bet his stats would have been insane elsewhere.

Then there's Rodman - he was a high-profile add-on and already a beast when he joined the Bulls.

Who else from the Bulls double-threepeat is even noteworthy? Compared to the Lakers & Celtics dynasties, there were very few all-stars coming out of the 90s Bulls.

Pippen & Rodman were great players on their own merit. Phil Jackson was a great coach on his own merit. (see Lakers success). In reality, while Jordan may be the best individual player of all time, there is no evidence of him being a better teammate than Lebron (on and off-court).

In fact I'd argue the opposite is true.

FG% is a sensible figure to look at if you want to see how environmental changes have affected a player. Wade & Bosh are 53% over the past 2 seasons...

[pauk]

:oldlol:

My ass. In what universe? In '99, when he had everything to himself, he averaged 18.8 ppg (career high) but shot just 42% (and an abysmal 49% TS). Kukoc's peak scoring ability on any type of decent efficient was probably around 16-17 ppg. There are 5 players on the Heat (not including Lebron) who have averaged more than that for several full seasons in their careers.

That chance didnt come at the best timing imo, not the "peak/prime Toni Kukoc" exactly being 30-31 and kindof injury proned, it was also the first time he was that #1 guy for a team in the NBA, in a lockout season... 19-7-5 was not bad, i think that season should just give you a better indication of what he could have been.... if it happened earlier...... and if he didnt end up somewhere else i still think he could have averaged next season at least 20 as he perhaps translated/developed better into that role & strategy...

Instead he got traded to PHI/ATL where he was not given anywhere close to such a chance, ATL did give him a small chance but only for 17 games....... where he averaged 20-6-6 @ 50% FG.... the next season ATL said **** you and let him rot in the bench, then Milwaukee let him rot in the bench until he retired........

He got his rings and its all good... Bulls success, sacrificing for team success bla bla bla.... but Kukoc's productions/stats were bottlenecked by Jordan/Pippen for perfectly logical reasons..... he could have easily been a 20+ 5+ 5+ player....

I have just seen too much of "Kukoc at his best", perhaps im a bit biased aswell..... before Kukoc entered the NBA i watched alot of live footage right here in my/his country, the "Euro-Magic" nickname (given before he entered the NBA) came for a reason as he dominated any position PG-SG-SF-PF-C over and over in Europe and was even argued at one point to be better than Drazen Petrovic in his prime (i dont agree with that, but thats how far it went), he was not gona be exactly that good against NBA competition... i know... but in the shadow of Jordan/Pippen, of the bench i did manage to see more than enough glimpses & outbursts of that 20-5-5 averaging potential to comfortably say ---> YES, i think Toni would have guaranteed averaged at least 20-5-5 if he was given a legit chance at his peak/prime... as a starter with 30+ mpg, as a 1st option... preferably if he could had that chance immediately he got in the NBA so he could faster develope/translate better & better into that kindof a player and maybe/perhaps more than just a 20-5-5 player, i believe he was that good & had that potential...

[OldSchoolBBall]

YES, i think Toni would have guaranteed averaged at least 20-5-5 if he was given a legit chance at his peak/prime... as a starter with 30+ mpg, as a 1st option...

You're welcome to believe what you want, but there is ZERO evidence that he was capable of such a thing on good efficiency. He tried at age 30 (which isn't ancient - it's right in the middle of most players' primes), and managed an abysmal scoring efficiency rate (42% FG/49% TS) on < 19 ppg.

[JUDGE WITNESS]

lebron obviously he is a point guard

[DukeDelonte13]

Lebron is soft with his teammates.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but he's a buddy-buddy fun loving type of teammate. He makes players better by taking attention off of them. He's a better passer than Jordan. He's not the type of guy to berate teammates during practices.



I don't profess to be a michael jordan expert, as I followed the cavs much more closely than the bulls, but it's my understanding that Jordan pushed his teammates to the brink and brought a ton of intensity to practices.

You could make arguments for both. Some players respond better to leadership like Jordan's, other respond better to Lebron's personality type.

[97 bulls]

You're welcome to believe what you want, but there is ZERO evidence that he was capable of such a thing on good efficiency. He tried at age 30 (which isn't ancient - it's right in the middle of most players' primes), and managed an abysmal scoring efficiency rate (42% FG/49% TS) on < 19 ppg.
How about his second season when he avgd 16/5/5 on 50% shooting in 30 minutes without Jordan? Which translates to 18/6/5 over 36 minutes of play. Or his short stint in Atlanta when he avg 20/6/6 on 49% shooting.

[TheMarkMadsen]

His first year in Cleveland was his best statistical year actually. And are you implying best statistically season equals best play of your career?


pretty sure that's what most people would say. Jordan is on record saying that his 89 season was his best, which just happens to be his most statistically dominant, some players may switch teams and be put into different roles that decrease their numbers, like KG from 07 to 08, the decrease in numbers doesn't mean KG was a worse player in 07 than in 08, that's where context comes into play.

**Mo Will was putting up 17/4/6 on 48% before he joined Lebron, are you honestly going to tell me that it was Lebron who "turned Mo Will into a legit 2nd option" which is what i was responding to originally, because it seems to me that Mo Will was ready to be a 2nd option a year before he even joined Lebrons team

[G-Funk]

Lebron He took a sorry ass team to the Finals

Jordans team almost made it to the Finals without him.

[Kovach]

This post implies Pippen would not have been an all time great had he been drafted by another team. How do you know that for a fact? I'm willing to bet his stats would have been insane elsewhere.

And how do YOU know? How do you know how would his career turn out without the countless 1 on 1 sessions with Jordan or without having to go over the Pistons hump? What if he got drafted by the Nuggets? Do you seriously believe he would still be a defensive beast that he was if he spent his first several years playing for Moe and Westhead? Get real. He was nowhere near the total package and a potential all-time great coming out of college.

[veilside23]

And how do YOU know? How do you know how would his career turn out without the countless 1 on 1 sessions with Jordan or without having to go over the Pistons hump? What if he got drafted by the Nuggets? Do you seriously believe he would still be a defensive beast that he was if he spent his first several years playing for Moe and Westhead? Get real. He was nowhere near the total package and a potential all-time great coming out of college.

Kids! they only knew pippen because he played with jordan

people already knew wade bosh battier allen before they joined lebron.

but making teammates better doesnt always account to passing at all or being playmaker.. Leadership is what makes your teammates better... Making the right plays at the right time also matters.

So i agree with DukeDelonte's post ...

[ImKobe]

Lebron He took a sorry ass team to the Finals

Jordans team almost made it to the Finals without him.

losing in the 2nd round is almost making it to the Finals?

94-95 Bulls when MJ returned finished the season out with a 13-4 record, they were 34-31 without him that year.:facepalm

[97 bulls]

And how do YOU know? How do you know how would his career turn out without the countless 1 on 1 sessions with Jordan or without having to go over the Pistons hump? What if he got drafted by the Nuggets? Do you seriously believe he would still be a defensive beast that he was if he spent his first several years playing for Moe and Westhead? Get real. He was nowhere near the total package and a potential all-time great coming out of college.
This isn't true. He was a PG in college at 6'8. He was already known for his defensive skills, and was a top 5 lottery pick in a damn good draft. Heres his draft video
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDoQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8S8 tOKJPZ-Q&ei=zn3RUtb6AsPloASAo4DoDg&usg=AFQjCNH8Vz7vONeYXs33p9mrAU9AE2Cn3g&sig2=jmxSIyjdemmnuWtqGE5k8w

If you take the time to watch it, notice what players they mention when comparing him. Magic Johnson and Dennis Rodman. Thats basically what he ended up being. A forward that is capable of being the PG. With great defensive skills. And athleticism.

Even in his interview he made it clear that he eventually wanted to evolve into being the Pointguard of his team.

So the talent was definitely there.

Now does he win if he were drafted by a team like the Nuggets? Id lean towards no. But that doesn't seem to matter on Insidehoops.

[97 bulls]

Phil Jackson- It was a late fall morning very early in Scottie Pippen’s professional career, as it was for Phil Jackson too, for that matter. The Bulls, at the time, held practices at the Deerfield Multiplex, with the coaches’ offices located just off the baseline, only 12 or so feet away from the court.

I thinks its often missed that Jordan and Pippen helped each other. Heres a couple of quotes from interviews done with Phil Jackson and Tex Winter. Both can be found on NBA.com

When Jackson and his staff emerged a few minutes before practice started, they saw Pippen and Michael Jordan on the side of the court working on a segment of the team’s offense called the “corner series.”

“They were making a reverse pivot and Scottie was going to the basket dunking with his left hand,” Jackson recalled in a phone interview. “Michael was trying to learn from Scottie how to get the steps right to finish with his left hand. That was something that Scottie could do which Michael wanted in his repertoire.”
Imagine that????? Scottie Pippens actually helping Michael Jordan better yet teaching Jordan. And at Jordan's behest.


Tex Winter- "Michael realized how easy it was to play with him and how he helped make his teammates better. It's often said Jordan needed Pippen and Pippen needed Jordan. I'm not sure Jordan didn't need Pippen more than Pippen needed Jordan."

[Fresh Kid]

jordan, never lost in tha finals and had better competition.

[veilside23]

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Phil Jackson- It was a late fall morning very early in Scottie Pippen

[97 bulls]

what's your point? are you sure you are a bulls fan? so you mean to say that even without jordan they could have won.. Well dan has been FMVP scottie pippen was great but jordan is the main guy.. i dont know what your point is :coleman:
Hell no they couldn't win without Jordan. My purpose is to shut these morons up. The notion that Jordan won all by himself or in spite of his teammates is idiotic.

And what is equally idiotic is the assumption that Pippen wouldn't be great without Jordan

[I.R.Beast]

let's See... Lebron makes teammates one dimensional and his style caters to spot up shooters... that is not making teammates better...

[ImKobe]

Jordan being 6-6 in the Finals should be the end argument. He never had "stacked" rosters, except for maybe 96 because Rodman and Pippen were playing really well in the regular season and playoffs. Michael never let his team down when the rest of the guys weren't showing up(98 Finals).

Jordan made Pippen a top 50 all-time player. Lebron hasn't done that. He joined an NBA Champion and an NBA Finals MVP + another all-star to compete for titles. While I don't think that takes away from Lebron's own accomplishments, I do think I'm right to use this argument when it comes to making teammates better. Have Chris Bosh or Wade been better with Lebron? When the 2013 NBA Championship was on the line, Bron missed a 3 that would tie the game and his teammate had to get the offensive rebound and another teammate had to hit the three to save the game. I don't see how that is making anyone better.

MJ trusted his teammates when he needed to and they always came through when it mattered the most.

[Harison]

They both played with hall of famers. My friend says Jordan could make his teammates better than Lebron can. But Lebron averages more assists and is a point forward. So which player has more of an impact on their teammates, not counting individual numbers?

Jordan averaged tripple-double when he played as a PG.

There is no simple answer who makes teammates better, their styles are radically different.

Jordan had contagious borderline psychotic will to win. Players either had to step up or get lost from the Bulls. Intense training drills with the GOAT certainly made them better too, especially Pippen. However some were rubbed in the wrong way and hated MJ.

Lebron has a laid-back attitude, has some fun and I havent noticed him pushing teammates to their abilities and beyond.

IMHO Lebron is probably more liked by the teammates, but MJ got more off his players and pushed them to 6 championships (with comparatively less stacked teams and against greater competition).

[Nash]

they werent bosh, allen, and lewis type players:facepalm
Lewis :lol :lol :lol

[IGOTGAME]

Kukoc on the Bulls was better than Allen or Lewis were at any point on the Heat...
Did you even watch the Bulls?

Kukoc was a legit 20/5/5 player on any other team.

and he won titles without those players...

[Fresh Kid]

Lewis :lol :lol :lol
lewis wasnt an all star?:confusedshrug:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Jordan being 6-6 in the Finals should be the end argument. He never had "stacked" rosters, except for maybe 96 because Rodman and Pippen were playing really well in the regular season and playoffs. Michael never let his team down when the rest of the guys weren't showing up(98 Finals).

Jordan made Pippen a top 50 all-time player. Lebron hasn't done that. He joined an NBA Champion and an NBA Finals MVP + another all-star to compete for titles. While I don't think that takes away from Lebron's own accomplishments, I do think I'm right to use this argument when it comes to making teammates better. Have Chris Bosh or Wade been better with Lebron? When the 2013 NBA Championship was on the line, Bron missed a 3 that would tie the game and his teammate had to get the offensive rebound and another teammate had to hit the three to save the game. I don't see how that is making anyone better.

MJ trusted his teammates when he needed to and they always came through when it mattered the most.

there's no maybe about it, that 96 team was the best collection of talent that the 90's ever saw on one team

[ImKobe]

there's no maybe about it, that 96 team was the best collection of talent that the 90's ever saw on one team

I agree. It was the best team of the 90s as far as regular season goes. Seattle was pretty good that year as well. They had a top 5 offense and a top 5 defense. 2nd in points per game and 2nd in defensive rating. while bulls were 1st in ppg and 1st in defensive rating.

[Marlo Stanfield]

MJ

[Marlo_Stanfield]

MJ
Damn how can we have the same username:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:
now everyone thinks im an alt, great:coleman:

[Cold soul]

MJ hands down. MJ is also the superior player in most areas against Lebron.

[JebronLames]

Hahaha LeBron by a wide margin.

[WeGetRing2012]

MJ made his teammates better.

Lebron's teammates make him better.

[HOoopCityJones]

Mike.

He actually led his team of scrubs (sans Pippen) to various championships.


LeBron had to team up with All-star , Superstar and Hall of fame talent before he supposedly made a Team better enough to win a ship'.

People really wanna pretend he makes Bosh and Wade better?

[Boarder Patrol]

Jordan made stars (like Pippen) but didn't do too much for role players. Didn't he try to freeze out Bill Cartwright, stuff like that?

LeBron is the opposite, stars he plays with get worse (Wade and Bosh) but he makes role players like Chalmers, Cole, Beasley, etc. better.

[JebronLames]

Jordan made stars (like Pippen) but didn't do too much for role players. Didn't he try to freeze out Bill Cartwright, stuff like that?

LeBron is the opposite, stars he plays with get worse (Wade and Bosh) but he makes role players like Chalmers, Cole, Beasley, etc. better.

Haha wade and bosh got worse cuz the declined physically:facepalm

[JebronLames]

Mike.

He actually led his team of scrubs (sans Pippen) to various championships.


LeBron had to team up with All-star , Superstar and Hall of fame talent before he supposedly made a Team better enough to win a ship'.

People really wanna pretend he makes Bosh and Wade better?

Please stop. LeBron won last year without a top 20 player teammate in the playoffs.

[Joe Anderson]

Jordan made stars (like Pippen) but didn't do too much for role players. Didn't he try to freeze out Bill Cartwright, stuff like that?

LeBron is the opposite, stars he plays with get worse (Wade and Bosh) but he makes role players like Chalmers, Cole, Beasley, etc. better.
How have Wade and Bosh gotten worse because of Lebron?:biggums: Those two have had the 3 most efficient seasons of their careers since teaming up with Lebron. I guess that is just a coincidence?:rolleyes: Wade isn't quite as good due to age and injuries, it has nothing to do with Lebron. As for Bosh, he was never that great to begin with. Just cause Bosh put up nice numbers on a horrible team that means he's an all time great? I'm sure Ibaka could put up HOF numbers if you put him on a lottery team as well.

[Joe Anderson]

Please stop. LeBron won last year without a top 20 player teammate in the playoffs.
:applause: How many other all time greats could lead their team to a chip with their sidekick averaging less than 16 ppg for a playoff run? Not Jordan, and certainly not Kobe! :oldlol:

[J Shuttlesworth]

Mike.

He actually led his team of scrubs (sans Pippen) to various championships.


LeBron had to team up with All-star , Superstar and Hall of fame talent before he supposedly made a Team better enough to win a ship'.

People really wanna pretend he makes Bosh and Wade better?
Lol the Bulls weren't a team of scrubs. WTF? First three peat era, BJ armstrong was good for 15 a game, Horace Grant was good for a double double a game.. Not exactly scrubs. They had 2 all stars with good role players around them. At least he had Grant to get some rebounds, where Bosh is averaging what.. 5 a game this year? 2nd three-peat, he had Rodman, Kerr, and Kukoc.

I'm not even sure I'd say that LeBron makes his teammates better, more than Jordan.. but LeBron's game style is more suited towards passing. He's more reliable for getting his teammate the open looks and has better overall court vision.

[aaronrodgers777]

can someone help me out. I just made account, its lets me reply, but whenever I want to post a new thread, it says you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

[SexSymbol]

LeBron haven't made anyone better, atleast I don't recall it.

MJ, on the other hand, made Pippen's career.

[VIntageNOvel]

Please stop. LeBron won last year without a top 20 player teammate in the playoffs.

so what happened to wade and bosh? :confusedshrug:
they both all star

you just answered OP's question:roll:

lebron turn wade and bosh into spot up shooter / thread

[JebronLames]

so what happened to wade and bosh? :confusedshrug:
they both all star

you just answered OP's question:roll:

lebron turn wade and bosh into spot up shooter / thread
Neither played like an all star in the playoffs.

Wade and bosh have declined. Lebron is making them look better than they really are.

[Eye Test]

Wade and bosh, Lebron is making them look better than they really are.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/640/962/d91.gif

[King Jane]

Lebron is a better player than Jordan period, even Scottie Pippen thinks so. Jordan would get bodied playing against Lebron. Jordan was used to playing against 6-4 white guys he wouldnt know what to do with a 6-9 260lb beast like Bron would prob get busted in half if he got in his way.

[JebronLames]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/640/962/d91.gif
Do you remember wade having any big games in the playoffs during the last two years?

[Joe Anderson]

Do you remember wade having any big games in the playoffs during the last two years?
Wade came up huge in game 4 of the Finals last year, but yes overall his playoff performances have been very underwhelming to say the least. I can't remember an NBA player with more media protection than Wade, other than MJ that is. If Wade plays like crap in a big game than he gets props for even being on the court while injured. If he plays a good game then he is praised non stop as a warrior who is beating the odds! :facepalm No matter what Wade does, he never loses. Must be nice. :coleman:

[VIntageNOvel]

Do you remember wade having any big games in the playoffs during the last two years?

this dude didnt even watch the final last year:roll: bron didnt win shit without wade going ham in game 4

and you just strengthen the argument: lebron make wade and bosh worse, this is wade, the real 2011 FMVP we are talking about

[Eye Test]

this dude didnt even watch the final last year:roll: bron didnt win shit without wade going ham in game 4

and you just strengthen the argument: lebron make wade and bosh worse, this is wade, the real 2011 FMVP we are talking about

its amazing, they hate on their alpha dawg :facepalm

[JebronLames]

this dude didnt even watch the final last year:roll: bron didnt win shit without wade going ham in game 4

and you just strengthen the argument: lebron make wade and bosh worse, this is wade, the real 2011 FMVP we are talking about
Yes, he did have some big games even with his knees hurting, including that game 4 in the finals. Guess why?

LeBron made him better. :rockon:

[Joe Anderson]

its amazing, they hate on their alpha dawg :facepalm
Alpha dogs don't average less than 16 ppg for an entire playoff run! :facepalm

[VIntageNOvel]

Yes, he did have some big games even with his knees hurting, including that game 4 in the finals. Guess why?

LeBron made him better. :rockon:

:biggums:

thats some twisted logic there

i already feel dumber

:coleman:

im outta this shit

[VIntageNOvel]

Alpha dogs don't average less than 16 ppg for an entire playoff run! :facepalm


thats the point,
read the title again
:coleman:

[JebronLames]

Alpha dogs don't average less than 16 ppg for an entire playoff run! :facepalm
Haha yeah. Defenses also paid less attention to him than in the regular season, and lebron went out of his way to get him going. So wade was actually worse than his stats show :oldlol:

[Joe Anderson]

this dude didnt even watch the final last year:roll: bron didnt win shit without wade going ham in game 4

and you just strengthen the argument: lebron make wade and bosh worse, this is wade, the real 2011 FMVP we are talking about
You might wanna check that game 4 box score again, Lebron actually outscored Wade. Wade isn't the 2011 Finals MVP, as he wasn't able to lead the Heat to victory. Lebron carried Wade through 3 playoff series last season, why couldn't Wade carry Lebron through one series in 2011? :confusedshrug:

[JebronLames]

:biggums:

thats some twisted logic there

i already feel dumber

:coleman:

im outta this shit
Set you up on that one. Was trying to set up eye test, but you volunteered.

[chazzy]

Haha yeah. Defenses also paid less attention to him than in the regular season, and lebron went out of his way to get him going. So wade was actually worse than his stats show :oldlol:
What a bizarre path you've taken pauk. Had your 'normal' sh0wtime account and troll pauk account, then got outed. Now this is you troll account and pauk is your 'normal' account :oldlol:

[Joe Anderson]

Haha yeah. Defenses also paid less attention to him than in the regular season, and lebron went out of his way to get him going. So wade was actually worse than his stats show :oldlol:
I know! At one point the Spurs had Tiago Splitter guarding him.:roll:

[JebronLames]

What a bizarre path you've taken pauk. Had your 'normal' sh0wtime account and troll pauk account, then got outed. Now this is you troll account and pauk is your 'normal' account :oldlol:
Hi Chazzy.

[Eye Test]

wade was hurt besides the east is a joke, u dont need every player healthy to advance there, dwade was good when it mattered

[VIntageNOvel]

You might wanna check that game 4 box score again, Lebron actually outscored Wade. Wade isn't the 2011 Finals MVP, as he wasn't able to lead the Heat to victory. Lebron carried Wade through 3 playoff series last season, why couldn't Wade carry Lebron through one series in 2011? :confusedshrug:


boxscore reader :lol
watch the game, bron is statpadding in a sure win game,
wade is beasting that game

wade and bosh is an all star, in prime, yet often play poorly alongside lebron, but lebron makes his teammates better:hammerhead:

again you're talking about how wade not even averaging 16 ppg,and that's the fukcing point, if lebron makes his teammates better,
wade should have average more? no? :hammerhead:

post wade playoff average in 2006 and or 2011, compare it with after lebron take the front seat, you can clearly see that lebron doesnt really make his teammates better :hammerhead:

lebron makes scrub better i agree, but he turn all stars into spot up shooter limiting their usage by being ball dominant, and by clogging the paint, often leaving bosh on the perimeter (thats why his assist number and rebound is kinda misleading)

you can swap bron with melo/CP, and heat would still win at least 2 chip
(wade is more than capable to do the playmaking, and bosh still a 20/10 player) and thats why all aroundness is overrated, you dont ****ing need to do it all yourself, basketball is 5v5 game, unless you have scrub teammates (like in cleveland, i agree lebron all aroundness made em better), but in this stacked heat team? no, he hasnt made his teammates better :cheers:

oh yeah i stop replying to pauk's alt, it made me feel dumber

[VIntageNOvel]

What a bizarre path you've taken pauk. Had your 'normal' sh0wtime account and troll pauk account, then got outed. Now this is you troll account and pauk is your 'normal' account :oldlol:


yes he has already been exposed in 30-5-5 thread, when he got a mini meltdown and edited the first post quoting those jebronlames post :roll:

[AintNoSunshine]

Lebron not only is better at making his teammates better he's also better at getting better because he's just better

[Angel Face]

Jordan.

Lebron made his super friends spot up shooters.

[knicksman]

jordan produced all stars in pippen and grant while lebron made jamison, ben, hughes, sczerbiak scrubs. And im sure wade and bosh wouldnt be all stars if not for their names. Lebron just doesnt play in a team concept with his statpadding ways. A scorer is much more effective playing off the ball and letting his teammates rebound while lebron gets easily stopped in the playoffs.

[Mr Feeny]

yes he has already been exposed in 30-5-5 thread, when he got a mini meltdown and edited the first post quoting those jebronlames post :roll:

He's a clown. Im new to this forum but I've been reading for the past few years, and I am pretty sure he once posted that he would rather have Miami lose an NBA finals series than have Wade win a finals MVP, before going on on some emotional rancorous rant. TW@T

[Joe Anderson]

Jordan.

Lebron made his super friends spot up shooters.
If you think Wade is only a spot up shooter you clearly don't watch the Heat play. As for Bosh, being spot up shooter is exactly what he wants. Bosh has gone on record saying that he has no desire to go into the post and bang with guys who are bigger and heavier than he is. :facepalm
Sorry, but it is not Lebron's fault that Bosh is a big sissy who is afraid to go into the paint with the big boys.

[knicksman]

jordan can fit with other players while lebron cant thats why cleveland failed to build around him. The only way to build to win with him is through stacking coz of that. While hughes(another pippen)is enough for jordan to win in this league.

[Mr Feeny]

jordan can fit with other players while lebron cant thats why cleveland failed to build around him. The only way to build to win with him is through stacking coz of that. While hughes(another pippen)is enough for jordan to win in this league.

How can you seriously call Hughes another Pippen?

[FrobeShaw]

While hughes(another pippen)is enough for jordan to win in this league.
:applause:

[Joe Anderson]

How can you seriously call Hughes another Pippen?
Don't try to argue with the mentally challenged. :lol

[Doranku]

Well LeBron has made literally every teammate he's played with worse sans Mo Williams, so it's gotta be Jordan by default.

[Mr Feeny]

Well LeBron has made literally every teammate he's played with worse sans Mo Williams, so it's gotta be Jordan by default.

Boobie Gibson?

[russwest0]

Well LeBron has made literally every teammate he's played with worse sans Mo Williams, so it's gotta be Jordan by default.

Even Mo Williams... his two seasons prior to Cleveland were better than anything he did with LeBron.

MJ had a finals series averaging 11 assists... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: