Who is the GOAT Shot Blocker?

[navy]

Who do you guys think is the GOAT shot blocker? For the sake of the argument, let's say only when shots were counted as an official statistic, unless you have reliable info pre 1973.

[moe94]

Dream

[Droid101]

Mark Eaton, I guess?

[GoranDragon]

All time: Hakeem

Current: Ibaka

[Marchesk]

Wilt Chamberlain. Estimates based on blocks counted for various games put his average at 7 per game.

Wilt was a superior shot blocker to Hakeem, being that he was just as athletic, but taller and longer.

[PHILA]

Russell, easy. He is also comfortable blocking shots with either hand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v9_aiXvoSc&t=12m56s



http://i.imgur.com/UzgVU.png

http://i.imgur.com/3h691.png

http://i.imgur.com/ju2qS.png

[Fire Colangelo]

Unless ^ you guys have video evidence of Wilt/Russel games from 1960s counting their blocks it's gonna be Mark Eaton.

[LAZERUSS]

Russell, easy. He is also comfortable blocking shots with either hand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v9_aiXvoSc&t=12m56s



http://i.imgur.com/UzgVU.png

http://i.imgur.com/3h691.png

http://i.imgur.com/ju2qS.png

Although we don't have recorded numbers from the vast majority of their 143 H2H games, in the games in which they were recorded, Russell blocked 86 shots in 13 of those games, or 6.6 bpg, while Wilt blocked 203 in 24, or 8.5 bpg.

[iamgine]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0619/nba_photo1_800.jpg

[stanlove1111]

Unless ^ you guys have video evidence of Wilt/Russel games from 1960s counting their blocks it's gonna be Mark Eaton.


Unless you have video proof of Russell's games from the 1960s that he didn't block more shots then Eaton, then I will go with Russell. Seen enough of him and read enough of him to determine that.

[Harison]

Either Wilt or Russell. In "the modern era" - The Dream.

[SexSymbol]

Was it all a dreaaam

[Psileas]

Who do you guys think is the GOAT shot blocker? For the sake of the argument, let's say only when shots were counted as an official statistic, unless you have reliable info pre 1973.

Info is pretty reliable to know that Wilt and Russell should be in the short list anyway. It's been shown, after all, that Wilt's blocked shots had been counted in his 1972-73 season and they pretty much trumped anything that followed, including the few seasons immediately after 1973 - only Elmore Smith's also monstrous 1974 season comes close (but Smith wasn't the rebounder Wilt was).

Wilt-Russell-Bol are my top-3. Hard to give an order, each one has cases.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Manute Bol had 3 seasons over 10.6 BLK%; no one else even has a single season above 9.8. He has 4 of the top 5 seasons by BLK% all time. Dude blocked 5.0 shots in 26 mpg in his prime, and 4.3 bpg in 22 mpg. :oldlol:

Among guys who played 30+ minutes, Eaton's 5.6 bpg in 34 mpg is the high mark. Of course, this is all only from 1980 onward.

[IncarceratedBob]

Dwyane Wade

[LAZERUSS]

Fpliii has posted some numbers before, but I didn't save them. He would probably be the most knowledgeable source in terms of the Russell-Wilt discussions.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Wade

[LAZERUSS]

Info is pretty reliable to know that Wilt and Russell should be in the short list anyway. It's been shown, after all, that Wilt's blocked shots had been counted in his 1972-73 season and they pretty much trumped anything that followed, including the few seasons immediately after 1973 - only Elmore Smith's also monstrous 1974 season comes close (but Smith wasn't the rebounder Wilt was).

Wilt-Russell-Bol are my top-3. Hard to give an order, each one has cases.


I believe you and ThaRegul8r had Chamberlain with 5.4 bpg in his LAST season (at age 36.) Eaton averaged 5.6 bpg 12 years later.

Maybe you can post Wilt's KNOWN blocks in his post-season career, as well. I believe he would rank pretty high on an all-time list, even without using all of his many unknown games.

[fpliii]

Fpliii has posted some numbers before, but I didn't save them. He would probably be the most knowledgeable source in terms of the Russell-Wilt discussions.
I don't have it handy either. Based on the estimates we have, I'm operating under the following:

Russell

1957 6.0 7.0
1958 6.5 7.0
1959 7.5 7.0
1960 7.5 7.0
1961 9.5 8.4
1962 9.5 8.4
1963 8.5 8.4
1964 9.0 9.1
1965 9.0 9.1
1966 7.0 7.0
1967 5.0 5.7
1968 4.5 5.7
1969 6.5 7.0

Wilt

1960 8.5 7.0
1961 7.5 6.3
1962 5.0 4.3
1963 4.5 4.3
1964 9.5 9.1
1965 6.5 6.3
1966 9.0 8.4
1967 8.5 8.4
1968 9.5 9.1
1969 7.0 7.0
1970 6.5 7.0
1971 4.0 4.3
1972 6.0 7.0
1973 4.5 5.0

Nate

1964 2.5 4.3
1965 4.5 5.0
1966 5.0 5.7
1967 6.0 6.3
1968 5.5 5.7
1969 5.5 5.7
1970 3.5 3.6
1971 3.0 3.6
1972 4.5 5.0
1973 4.0 4.3

Kareem

1970 4.0 4.3
1971 3.5 4.3
1972 4.0 4.3
1973 4.0 4.3

First number is BPG (from the newspaper mentions, note that I didn't use the complete numbers from 66-67 or 67-68 since I'm still not sure how reliable they are), second is BLK% (I just ran a linear regression based on BLK/36 rate to match them up).

[SCfor3]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0619/nba_photo1_800.jpg
Holy shit!

How can anyone be this skinny?

I mean I'm skinny myself but atleast I got big strog legs

[jstern]

3rd time I post this:

Pound for pound it's Manute Bol (200 pounds). I was checking out his stats, and I was seeing 5 per game, etc. Pretty good, and then I noticed that he only played like 20 minutes per game. So I decided to compare him to other great shot blockers, like Olajuwon, and he totally killed them per 36 minutes. Pound for pound it's Manute Bol, and that's because he weight 200 pounds which is less than the average guard, and yet had the highest average of everyone. Was actually the best not including pound for pound.

Bol 200 pounds = 6.4 Blocks per 36 minutes/31.25 Pounds per block
Wade 214 pounds = 1 Block per 36 minutes/214 pounds per block
Olajuwon 255 Pounds = 3.1 Blocks per 36 minutes/82 pounds per block
Mutombo 245 Pounds = 3.2 Blocks per 36 minutes/76 pounds per block

[LAZERUSS]

I don't have it handy either. Based on the estimates we have, I'm operating under the following:

Russell

1957 6.0 7.0
1958 6.5 7.0
1959 7.5 7.0
1960 7.5 7.0
1961 9.5 8.4
1962 9.5 8.4
1963 8.5 8.4
1964 9.0 9.1
1965 9.0 9.1
1966 7.0 7.0
1967 5.0 5.7
1968 4.5 5.7
1969 6.5 7.0

Wilt

1960 8.5 7.0
1961 7.5 6.3
1962 5.0 4.3
1963 4.5 4.3
1964 9.5 9.1
1965 6.5 6.3
1966 9.0 8.4
1967 8.5 8.4
1968 9.5 9.1
1969 7.0 7.0
1970 6.5 7.0
1971 4.0 4.3
1972 6.0 7.0
1973 4.5 5.0

Nate

1964 2.5 4.3
1965 4.5 5.0
1966 5.0 5.7
1967 6.0 6.3
1968 5.5 5.7
1969 5.5 5.7
1970 3.5 3.6
1971 3.0 3.6
1972 4.5 5.0
1973 4.0 4.3

Kareem

1970 4.0 4.3
1971 3.5 4.3
1972 4.0 4.3
1973 4.0 4.3

First number is BPG (from the newspaper mentions, note that I didn't use the complete numbers from 66-67 or 67-68 since I'm still not sure how reliable they are), second is BLK% (I just ran a linear regression based on BLK/36 rate to match them up).

Great stuff. Clearly, Russell and Wilt were on an entirely different level than any other shot-blockers in the history of the game.

[ABfor3]

Manute Bol

[LAZERUSS]

Here are two minute's worth...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=splnUR-52jM

[fpliii]

Great stuff. Clearly, Russell and Wilt were on an entirely different level than any other shot-blockers in the history of the game.

Pretty much. BTW since we have the actual number for 72-73 you mentioned above (5.4, or close to 5.5), this chart:


Equivalent BLK% 1973-74 through 1975-76 for BLK/36
(Those who Qualified for Blocks Title, 50+ BLK)

10.0 - 14.0
9.5 - 13.3
9.0 - 12.6
8.5 - 11.9
8.0 - 11.2
7.5 - 10.5
7.0 - 9.8
6.5 - 9.1
6.0 - 8.4
5.5 - 7.7
5.0 - 7.0
4.5 - 6.3
4.0 - 5.7
3.5 - 5.0
3.0 - 4.3
2.5 - 3.6
2.0 - 2.9
1.5 - 2.2
1.0 - 1.5
0.5 - 0.8
0.0 - 0.1

tells us that's equivalent to a 6.3 BLK% in that season.

[Psileas]

I believe you and ThaRegul8r had Chamberlain with 5.4 bpg in his LAST season (at age 36.) Eaton averaged 5.6 bpg 12 years later.

Maybe you can post Wilt's KNOWN blocks in his post-season career, as well. I believe he would rank pretty high on an all-time list, even without using all of his many unknown games.

Well, I'll tell you this: If I added up all the blocked shots that have been credited to Wilt by newspapers (preferring the most popular figure when there exist different figures for the same game) and the ones estimated by nbastats, I'd get 790 blocks in 93 postseason games. Of course, this number is to be taken with a grain of salt.

[rlsmooth775]

Either Wilt or Russell. In "the modern era" - The Dream.

When did the modern era start for you

[Psileas]

I don't have it handy either. Based on the estimates we have, I'm operating under the following:

Russell

1957 6.0 7.0
1958 6.5 7.0
1959 7.5 7.0
1960 7.5 7.0
1961 9.5 8.4
1962 9.5 8.4
1963 8.5 8.4
1964 9.0 9.1
1965 9.0 9.1
1966 7.0 7.0
1967 5.0 5.7
1968 4.5 5.7
1969 6.5 7.0

Wilt

1960 8.5 7.0
1961 7.5 6.3
1962 5.0 4.3
1963 4.5 4.3
1964 9.5 9.1
1965 6.5 6.3
1966 9.0 8.4
1967 8.5 8.4
1968 9.5 9.1
1969 7.0 7.0
1970 6.5 7.0
1971 4.0 4.3
1972 6.0 7.0
1973 4.5 5.0

Nate

1964 2.5 4.3
1965 4.5 5.0
1966 5.0 5.7
1967 6.0 6.3
1968 5.5 5.7
1969 5.5 5.7
1970 3.5 3.6
1971 3.0 3.6
1972 4.5 5.0
1973 4.0 4.3

Kareem

1970 4.0 4.3
1971 3.5 4.3
1972 4.0 4.3
1973 4.0 4.3

First number is BPG (from the newspaper mentions, note that I didn't use the complete numbers from 66-67 or 67-68 since I'm still not sure how reliable they are), second is BLK% (I just ran a linear regression based on BLK/36 rate to match them up).

I think some of the numbers may be off to some extent. For example, the 1973 calculation of Wilt seems a bit low, so does the 1962 or 1963 calculation (I guess they are based on the assumption that these were among Wilt's worst defensive seasons) or Russell's 1967 calculation, while Wilt's 1970 calculation may be too high, knowing that he blocked "only" 3 vs the Bucks and estimating that he didn't block many after his brief comeback in the end of the regular season.

[GOBB]

Nerlens Noel

[CavaliersFTW]

Most prolific at their peaks for the era I do my research on is, Wilt Russell and Thurmond.

Best (different than 'most prolific' IMO), has gotta be Russell. I don't know if he got more blocked shots than Wilt or not, because according to guys like Harvey Pollack he did not block as many shots as Wilt. But I'm sure he blocked very nearly as many and his quickness on the jump and his timing and agility look more impressive than Wilt. He scared guys out of shots from a wider area on the floor. Wilt maybe stopped less people from driving in deep, but Russell could move around better and get at shots further out. According to Alex Hannum, Thurmond was something in between. I think all 3 of them are better shot blockers than Mark Eaton, Kareem, Hakeem, Robinson, Dikembe, etc. I think Manute Bol was probably the most prolific ever when he was on the floor. Problem was his stature and athleticism did not allow him to stay on the floor and do everything else centers are supposed to do. He's kind of an outlier, or a specialist in that regard.

[justin12140]

yall have never even see the guys your naming play a full season of basketball yet yall call them the best. thread would be better if the title wa "who is the best shot blocker you've ever seen play"

[Olacinco]

Joel embiid...

But since he's technically not eligible yet I guess mutumbo #1 for now

[fpliii]

I think some of the numbers may be off to some extent. For example, the 1973 calculation of Wilt seems a bit low, so does the 1962 or 1963 calculation (I guess they are based on the assumption that these were among Wilt's worst defensive seasons) or Russell's 1967 calculation, while Wilt's 1970 calculation may be too high, knowing that he blocked "only" 3 vs the Bucks and estimating that he didn't block many after his brief comeback in the end of the regular season.
Yeah, the regression takes into account team defense and known block games. I overrode the 73 calculation since we have the actual total from the LA Times/ThaRegul8r/petroslav.

Wilt 65 is low as well because the first half brings it down. I think his numbers for the rest of the season are up there with the rest of his Philly years.

[Primary]

Russell's blocks started fast breaks, a blocked shot and an outlet pass in one. He was extremely gifted at blocking shots right to his teammates. Wilt was doing the volleyball spike into the bleachers back then before it was cool.

[jzek]

Bol if you're a statistic kind of guy.

Mutombo if you're a true basketball kind of guy.

[CavaliersFTW]

Russell's blocks started fast breaks, a blocked shot and an outlet pass in one. He was extremely gifted at blocking shots right to his teammates. Wilt was doing the volleyball spike into the bleachers back then before it was cool.
Wilt blocked to his teammates too, do you not watch footage?