Stockton the Ultimate Point Guard

[Bandito]

http://www.interbasket.net/players/usa/stockton.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myMvojT6zIc)

Click the image...

[SexSymbol]

Holy hell how did you do that image to video thing?

[Bandito]

Holy hell how did you do that image to video thing?
Quote it and learn.:D

It is really simple,

[ URL="this is the link to the vid"]Put your here[/URL]

[Real Men Wear Green]

He was certainly the prototype. There was nothing you would normally expect from a pg that Stockton didn't excel at. "Ultimate" is a little too far though. He was one of the greatest ever but there have been a few better. I'd give Magic, Isaiah Thomas, and Oscar Robertson over him all-time.

[Harison]

Always rooted against the Jazz, but always respected his skills :applause:

[97 bulls]

He was certainly the prototype. There was nothing you would normally expect from a pg that Stockton didn't excel at. "Ultimate" is a little too far though. He was one of the greatest ever but there have been a few better. I'd give Magic, Isaiah Thomas, and Oscar Robertson over him all-time.
From a PG perspective. What were they better at?

[Real Men Wear Green]

From a PG perspective. What were they better at?
I said Stockton was the prototype. That means he was great at everything that we expect from the pg stereotype. I didn't say they were better than him at those things. They were better at other aspects of basketball (scoring and rebounding) which made them better players and thus better pgs, as the only edge he had over them was shooting.

[97 bulls]

I said Stockton was the prototype. That means he was great at everything that we expect from the pg stereotype. I didn't say they were better than him at those things. They were better at other aspects of basketball (scoring and rebounding) which made them better players and thus better pgs, as the only edge he had over them was shooting.
Ok, allow me to rephrase my question. What make Thomas, Magic, and Robertson more of the ultimate PG than Stockton?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Ok, allow me to rephrase my question. What make Thomas, Magic, and Robertson more of the ultimate PG than Stockton?
All were greater scoring threats, two of them were also significantly better rebounders and one of them could do almost anything on the court offensively. I'd take any of them to start my team over Stockton regardless of teammates.

[IGOTGAME]

Ok, allow me to rephrase my question. What make Thomas, Magic, and Robertson more of the ultimate PG than Stockton?

because they played the point guard position and through their playing of that position gave their teams a better chance to win basketball games.

[Bandito]

He was certainly the prototype. There was nothing you would normally expect from a pg that Stockton didn't excel at. "Ultimate" is a little too far though. He was one of the greatest ever but there have been a few better. I'd give Magic, Isaiah Thomas, and Oscar Robertson over him all-time.
Isaiah and Oscar are not better PG's than him. Oscar and Magic were just bigger and around better player than Stockton, but John is a better leader, has better playmaking abilities and is offensive awareness is just greater.

[Angel Face]

One of the best point guards to ever play the game. Loved watching him even if he's playing against Bulls back then. If he plays today and on his prime, he would absolutely be the best point guard in this soft era.

[Lebron23]

One of the best point guards to ever play the game. Loved watching him even if he's playing against Bulls back then. If he plays today and on his prime, he would absolutely be the best point guard in this soft era.


One of the best beta players of all time. Its sucks that he had a disappointing performance in the 1998 NBA Finals. I know he's 36 yrs.old, and very well past his prime, but Malone who's 35 yrs.old put up a solid performance in the Finals.

Magic, Isiah, Cousy, Frazier, Parker, Cousy, and Billups won championships because they played like a true alpha male in the playoffs, and in the NBA Finals.

PS

What's up with this $hitty username Poido123??

[215Philly]

One of the best point guards to ever play the game. Loved watching him even if he's playing against Bulls back then. If he plays today and on his prime, he would absolutely be the best point guard in this soft era.
:kobe:

[Angel Face]

One of the best beta players of all time. Its sucks that he had a disappointing performance in the 1998 NBA Finals. I know he's 36 yrs.old, and very well past his prime, but Malone who's 35 yrs.old put up a solid performance in the Finals.

Magic, Isiah, Cousy, Frazier, Parker, Cousy, and Billups won championships because they played like a true alpha male in the playoffs, and in the NBA Finals.

PS

What's up with this $hitty username Poido123??

Who the heck is poido? and how's your throat after LeBron's d!ck rested there last night?

[IGOTGAME]

:kobe:

he is better than every point guard currently playing except possibly Chris Paul. Havent wat hed him much this year so I don't know how well he is playing.

[215Philly]

he is better than every point guard currently playing except possibly Chris Paul. Havent wat hed him much this year so I don't know how well he is playing.
I agree that he would be the best but the guy said it like it was no argument.

[Sarcastic]

Pretty sure Magic Johnson is the Ultimate Point Guard.

[Milbuck]

:bowdown: The Brandon Knight of the Jordan era :applause:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Isaiah and Oscar are not better PG's than him. Oscar and Magic were just bigger and around better player than Stockton, but John is a better leader, has better playmaking abilities and is offensive awareness is just greater.
How does Stockton have better playmaking abilities? Was his cross better? Quicker first step? Better handle? I'm seeing a lot of "no" replies to these questions. He had as good court vision as anyone but I can say the same thing about Magic, Thomas and Robertson. Stockton has the assist record because Magic caught HIV as much as any other reason. Magic has the highest career APG, Stock is a close #2, and Robertson and Thomas are within 1.2 of him. And this is with Stockton running pick and roll with Karl Malone almost his entire career.

And really, "best pg" does not just come down to who is the best floor general. There are no set rules about what a pg should and should not contribute to his team. If a point guard can go out there and get 8 boards a game that makes him a better point guard. So the idea that all we should count when rating pgs is assists, disregard ability to rebound and act like it doesn't matter if he averages 12ppg or 24 is off.

[Y2ktors]

The 3rd greatest PG of all time:

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Stockton

[Bandito]

How does Stockton have better playmaking abilities? Was his cross better? Quicker first step? Better handle? I'm seeing a lot of "no" replies to these questions. He had as good court vision as anyone but I can say the same thing about Magic, Thomas and Robertson. Stockton has the assist record because Magic caught HIV as much as any other reason. Magic has the highest career APG, Stock is a close #2, and Robertson and Thomas are within 1.2 of him. And this is with Stockton running pick and roll with Karl Malone almost his entire career.

And really, "best pg" does not just come down to who is the best floor general. There are no set rules about what a pg should and should not contribute to his team. If a point guard can go out there and get 8 boards a game that makes him a better point guard. So the idea that all we should count when rating pgs is assists, disregard ability to rebound and act like it doesn't matter if he averages 12ppg or 24 is off.No that makes it a better player. Just because you can get a lot of rebounds doesn't mean you are a good PG. When does one correlate with the other.

Magic was just bigger, one of the reasons he could get more rebounds.

Scoring a lot of points again doesn't mean you are a better PG, that just means you are a better scorer. Just because you can score good doesn't mean you are good at setting your players and making the right pass.

THe reason Stock is better is because his assists to Turnover ratio is way better than MAgic's ever was.

Assists doesn't really tell the whole story like you said but the way Stock set the offense was just better than Magic, not by a lot though. I do understand than my POV is biased as yours are, so in reality doesn't mean squat in the end, because Magic is still a better player than Stock anyways.

But still I would take Stock as the better passer and setting the offense on ANY team over MAgic's.

[Y2ktors]

No that makes it a better player. Just because you can get a lot of rebounds doesn't mean you are a good PG. When does one correlate with the other.

Magic was just bigger, one of the reasons he could get more rebounds.

Scoring a lot of points again doesn't mean you are a better PG, that just means you are a better scorer. Just because you can score good doesn't mean you are good at setting your players and making the right pass.

THe reason Stock is better is because his assists to Turnover ratio is way better than MAgic's ever was.

Assists doesn't really tell the whole story like you said but the way Stock set the offense was just better than Magic, not by a lot though. I do understand than my POV is biased as yours are, so in reality doesn't mean squat in the end, because Magic is still a better player than Stock anyways.

But still I would take Stock as the better passer and setting the offense on ANY team over MAgic's.

See that's the bad thing about judging PGs. Ppl try to use a specific criteria, as if there's only one designated way to play the PG position.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nice trick!

Stock the man :applause:

[Real Men Wear Green]

But still I would take Stock as the better passer and setting the offense on ANY team over MAgic's.
I wouldn't even agree with that much. Regardless the difference in our perspectives is that you have a set list of duties that defines the point guard and how they should be ranked. While there are things a player must be able to do for me to view him as a real pg the ability to contribute outside of that skillset contributes to a point guard's value.

[Nick Young]

Steve Nash was basically John Stockton but much better at everything

[Bandito]

I wouldn't even agree with that much. Regardless the difference in our perspectives is that you have a set list of duties that defines the point guard and how they should be ranked. While there are things a player must be able to do for me to view him as a real pg the ability to contribute outside of that skillset contributes to a point guard's value.
Well an opinion is biased no matter how many 'facts' the person making it uses in the end.:confusedshrug:


I still will choose Stock over Magic on almost any team.

[Bandito]

Steve Nash was basically John Stockton but much better at everything
Future negged:facepalm

[Sarcastic]

Well an opinion is biased no matter how many 'facts' the person making it uses in the end.:confusedshrug:


I still will choose Stock over Magic on almost any team.

You would take the guy with 0 rings and 0 MVPs over the guy that has multiple of both?

Stockton is officially the most overrated player ever if anyone would consider him over Magic Johnson.

[bagelred]

People know he's the all time assists leader but they forget he's the all time steals leader. By alot.

If someone asks "What is a Point Guard?", I say watch John Stockton. That is a Point Guard.

[FatComputerNerd]

Steve Nash was basically John Stockton but much better at everything

Steve Nash was nothing like Stockton really.

If you want to compare Steve Nash to someone, Mark Price would be a better candidate, although Price was much scrappier and a better defender than Nash.

[bagelred]

Steve Nash was basically John Stockton but much better at everything

Uh, no....they aren't that much alike. Nash doesn't play D, whereas Stocton is the all time steals leader. 5x NBA All Defensive 2nd team.

Nash was only top notch for a very brief period of time in a very specific system. Stockton was consistently great for about 20 years or so.

[97 bulls]

You would take the guy with 0 rings and 0 MVPs over the guy that has multiple of both?

Stockton is officially the most overrated player ever if anyone would consider him over Magic Johnson.
I disagree with this. Granted Stockton had Malone. But come on. Look at the talent Magic had. Jabaar, Worthy, Scott, Mcadoo, Cooper, Wilkes.

[215Philly]

Steve Nash was basically John Stockton but much better at everything
What a weak poster :facepalm

[Y2ktors]

Steve Nash was basically John Stockton but much better at everything
:biggums:

[Sarcastic]

I disagree with this. Granted Stockton had Malone. But come on. Look at the talent Magic had. Jabaar, Worthy, Scott, Mcadoo, Cooper, Wilkes.


The GREAT Kareem Abdul Jabbar went through most of his prime without winning any titles, except for the one he won with Oscar. As soon as Magic showed up in LA, he starts winning them by the assload, and changed Kareem's entire career. Magic saved his career from being known as a guy who couldn't win, to one of the all time greatest winners in NBA history.

[T_L_P]

John Stockton is the greatest Point Guard to ever play.
But he's not the greatest player to play the Point Guard position.

There's a big difference.

[lakers1978]

Career wise I'd take Stockton of over nash, peak wise I rather have nash. Stockton never lead or dominated like Nash on Phoenix. What made Stockton an all time great was his longevity and consistency. You could always rely on a 14-18ppg with double digit assist yr in yr out. But a player that you build a championship team around, and a player that would put the team on his back, he was not.

[Xiao Yao You]

One of the best beta players of all time. Its sucks that he had a disappointing performance in the 1998 NBA Finals. I know he's 36 yrs.old, and very well past his prime, but Malone who's 35 yrs.old put up a solid performance in the Finals.



Karl choked!


Stockton has the assist record because Magic caught HIV as much as any other reason.

Unlikely Magic would have beat him regardless.

[sportjames23]

Quote it and learn.:D

It is really simple,

[ URL="this is the link to the vid"]Put your here[/URL]


Let me test this.

GOAT gonna GOAT:

http://sneakerpedia.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/michael-jordan-6-rings.jpg%3Fw%3D500%26h%3D339 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtU0ifvVPV8)

[Audio One]

John Stockton's massively overrated. Not a top 50 player, barely a top-10 PG. Purest point guard my ass :lol

[D.J.]

Nash and Stockton are alike? :facepalm Outside of perhaps the mid-range J, I cannot think of one similarity. Stockton thrived in the half court, Nash did not. Stockton reached the Finals multiple times, Nash not even once. Stockton is the all-time leader in steals and multiple All-Defensive teams, Nash's D was worse than a folding chair.

[215Philly]

John Stockton's massively overrated. Not a top 50 player, barely a top-10 PG. Purest point guard my ass :lol
:lebronamazed:

[sportjames23]

John Stockton's massively overrated. Not a top 50 player, barely a top-10 PG. Purest point guard my ass :lol


Damn, son. First you hate on Dream, and now Stockton. :biggums:

[Y2ktors]

John Stockton is the greatest Point Guard to ever play.
But he's not the greatest player to play the Point Guard position.

There's a big difference.

Huh??????

[T_L_P]

Huh??????

In terms of embodying the position, and doing exactly what a Point Guard is supposed to do, he's the greatest. :confusedshrug:

[houston]

Nash and Stockton are alike? :facepalm Outside of perhaps the mid-range J, I cannot think of one similarity. Stockton thrived in the half court, Nash did not. Stockton reached the Finals multiple times, Nash not even once. Stockton is the all-time leader in steals and multiple All-Defensive teams, Nash's D was worse than a folding chair.


I agree with this

[Y2ktors]

In terms of embodying the position, and doing exactly what a Point Guard is supposed to do, he's the greatest. :confusedshrug:

BUT there is no specific criteria that makes a player a PG.

[Bandito]

You would take the guy with 0 rings and 0 MVPs over the guy that has multiple of both?

Stockton is officially the most overrated player ever if anyone would consider him over Magic Johnson.
Magic had a stacked team while Stockton never had a stacked team. Fact.

[Done_And_Done]

John Stockton's massively overrated. Not a top 50 player, barely a top-10 PG. Purest point guard my ass :lol

You're cool

[Big#50]

Dirty player. **** him and Malone. Not even close to being the ultimate PG. He is top five though.

[Y2ktors]

Dirty player. **** him and Malone. Not even close to being the ultimate PG. He is top five though.

I have him at #3 all time.

[Bigsmoke]

He is a great sidekick PG:confusedshrug:

He's not a Magic or CP3 when is come to individual greatness

[MiseryCityTexas]

Idiot basketball fans had the nerve to say that Steve Nash was better lmao.

[joeyjoejoe]

If only he hadn't choked away the 98 finals

[Lebron23]

If only he hadn't choked away the 98 finals


That's why Zeke will always be rank higher than Stockton. Thomas elevated his game in the playoffs, and in the NBA Finals.

http://www.sportsblink.com/product_images/isiah-thomas-detroit-pistons-action-autographed-photograph-3351543.jpg

[joeyjoejoe]

That's a fair statement

[Totspurs]

It comes down to personal taste.

Who would you prefer in your team, Jose Calderon or Kyrie Irving? Because Calderon is the better point guard, by far.

[Y2ktors]

That's why Zeke will always be rank higher than Stockton. Thomas elevated his game in the playoffs, and in the NBA Finals.

http://www.sportsblink.com/product_images/isiah-thomas-detroit-pistons-action-autographed-photograph-3351543.jpg

Zeke was a better scorer, ability-wise. Other than that and 2 rings, he isn't even close to Stockton.

[Sarcastic]

Magic had a stacked team while Stockton never had a stacked team. Fact.


Magic had a stacked team because it had Magic Johnson on it. Fact.

[215Philly]

It comes down to personal taste.

Who would you prefer in your team, Jose Calderon or Kyrie Irving? Because Calderon is the better point guard, by far.
:no:

[Stringer Bell]

I get the idea in the traditional sense, when people say Stockton was the best "pure point guard", playing how most people envision how a PG should play.

But what about revolutionizing the position? Doing things above and beyond what most point guards are expected to do? Magic could score 20+, rebound, create by driving to the hoop or by posting up. If a PG's main priority is to create and make good passes...well Magic might be the greatest passer ever and could create in different ways.

Magic is the greatest PG ever. He did what a PG is expected to do, and then some.

[Pointguard]

Magic had a stacked team while Stockton never had a stacked team. Fact.

On both the Olympic teams and the All-Star teams the play degraded a whole level when Stockton substituted for Magic. Magic was on a whole different level. Magic could push the level of play much better and force pace better, and lead his target better. Magic knew tendencies a little better and was of the few that had Stockton's superb timing. Magic was also more creative. Magic could also feed the post better. Stockton could get to a very good level of play most of the time. Stockton could rarely get to a great level of play.

[Xiao Yao You]

On both the Olympic teams and the All-Star teams the play degraded a whole level when Stockton substituted for Magic. Magic was on a whole different level. Magic could push the level of play much better and force pace better, and lead his target better. Magic knew tendencies a little better and was of the few that had Stockton's superb timing. Magic was also more creative. Magic could also feed the post better. Stockton could get to a very good level of play most of the time. Stockton could rarely get to a great level of play.

Rarely as in almost 20 years of great?

[Lebron23]

On both the Olympic teams and the All-Star teams the play degraded a whole level when Stockton substituted for Magic. Magic was on a whole different level. Magic could push the level of play much better and force pace better, and lead his target better. Magic knew tendencies a little better and was of the few that had Stockton's superb timing. Magic was also more creative. Magic could also feed the post better. Stockton could get to a very good level of play most of the time. Stockton could rarely get to a great level of play.


Magic was just a better player than Stockton, and he had that winning mentality. The guy is a 5x NBA Champion, 3x NBA MVP, and 3x NBA Finals MVP, and he elevated his game to another level in the playoffs and Finals.