The hypocrisy of hockey

[Go Getter]

In light of tonight's brawl between the Flames & Canucks I wanted to ask the question: why is it that hockey players get away with fighting yet in basketball [and other major sports] small scuffles are treated like major offenses?

[BasedTom]

It's usually mid-tier or scrubs who fight in hockey. If someone so much as breathes on Cindy Crosby or Alex Ovechkin then Gary Bettman bans the player from the league and sends their family to a gulag.

[Ed Wachter]

Side note: the creator of this thread is openly racist.

Continue.

[tpols]

A little fighting is good to clear emotions in a game.. in an NBA game players hold back until theyre really sick of whats ever going on and they explode causing a big scuffle spreading across the court

There's ettiquette in hockey fighting.. theyre on skates so its always in a small stretch of ice, they throw punches and grab/block.. its pretty simple on skates. First to go down and fight is over. No 'retaliation' or gang jumpings. Its fair and settles the dispute and makes sure pent up rage doesnt make a player do something he may regret.

When youre out on a bball court you could have these guys chasing each other going everywhere, diving at each other, running around.. its just too wild and uncontrolled. Plus there would be no ettituquette like in hockey.. and they dont have pads and helmets on so it would likely be more dangerous. Just not a good idea for basketball based on how it operates:oldlol:

[Heavincent]

The only people who say there shouldn't be fighting in hockey are non-hockey fans. It's a statement I find to be pretty offensive quite honestly.

Also, even if NBA players were allowed to fight, there probably wouldn't be that many of them.

[Jailblazers7]

Because white ppl like to watch fighting as long as it's not black people beating up white ppl or vice versa?

[Heavincent]

You know, I think sports fans these days would rather see athletes take passive-aggressive shots at each other over twitter than actually fight like men.

[DukeDelonte13]

i played hockey my whole life, still play in men's leagues here and there.

it's just a part of the game. As another poster said the fights don't usually get too out of control.

[Nick Young]

the fighting is the only entertaining aspect of that sport

[Draz]

I'll admit I seen that fight. It was pretty cool.

Their grown men, millionaires. Let them fight. If you guys think NBA players don't associate with each other outside of basketball in their intense battles together on the court you're insane. I don't think it should be allowed but don't fine them and penalize them.

[Jameerthefear]

because no one gives a shit about hockey

[Bandito]

Is the sport so boring that it actually needs fights to keep interest? This

[MMM]

hockey was the first sort i fell in love with not sure why people think its boring. Yea there are low scoring games but the game is has a good fast flowing pace. There are low scoring 1-0 or 2-1 games that were far more entertaining than higher scoring games.

[Real Men Wear Green]

In light of tonight's brawl between the Flames & Canucks I wanted to ask the question: why is it that hockey players get away with fighting yet in basketball [and other major sports] small scuffles are treated like major offenses?
Is that hypocrisy? Most of the people replying will know more about the NHL than me, I only care about the Bruins and then only when they're going for the Cup. Just asking because I don't see hypocrisy in your statement, that's just them permitting more violence than other sports. I don't think their punishments will end fighting like the NBA has but are they saying they have a hard stance against fighting?

[DukeDelonte13]

hockey was the first sort i fell in love with not sure why people think its boring. Yea there are low scoring games but the game is has a good fast flowing pace. There are low scoring 1-0 or 2-1 games that were far more entertaining than higher scoring games.


because people don't know it.

People don't watch the sport = people think its boring. Just like how most americans view soccer.

[iggy>]

Because its extremely hard to fight on ice. Fighting on a hard surface is entirely more dangerous. In hockey, once a player falls to the ice the fight is over.

[Just2McFly]

Because its extremely hard to fight on ice. Fighting on a hard surface is entirely more dangerous. In hockey, once a player falls to the ice the fight is over.
One would thinking having gloves, sticks and fighting on ice would be more dangerous than hardwood.

[iggy>]

One would thinking having gloves, sticks and fighting on ice would be more dangerous than hardwood.
It's very hard to land significant blows while sliding on ice. Players have to hold each others Jersey's just to keep their balance.

[GOBB]

So the reasoning behind fighting allowed in hockey is...just because it is. :oldlol:

Only cool part about hockey is fighting and some guy weaving thru players and scoring. But I always wondered why fighting is allowed in the sport. Its not like the guys fight and its broken up. In fact you know a fight will happen and the zebras just waits for the first person to get KO'd or dropped. Why let them fight to begin with?

I can't get into hockey, no clue about the sport so it seems like the game would watch me more than me it. My friend asked me to go to the Flyers game yesterday, had suite tickets. I declined. I have no idea what I'm watching.

[Derka]

You know, I think sports fans these days would rather see athletes take passive-aggressive shots at each other over twitter than actually fight like men.

There's a large nugget of truth to that.

[embersyc]

Dudes have big padded gloves and helmets on.
They are on ice skates.
There is a glass barrier between fans and players.
Fights are mostly one on one.

[BoogieWoogieMan]

There are three reasons for fighting in hockey and the first reason is for a way for players to police themselves. When a shit disturber is slashing, late hits or taking cheap shots at a star player and the ref doesn't see it or won't blow the whistle, the star player's teammate came come in and initiate a fight to keep the shithead in check.

The league is trying to stop this, because now they have a instigating rule, where if you start the fight, you get an extra two minutes in the box. Which is stupid, because now there are lot more cheap shots happening by smaller players and they refuse to fight, because they know they'll be killed, but they know that rule will protect them and their coach will be glad that they instigated the other team to get an instigating penalty. :facepalm

The second reason is psychological. When your team is down by the score, and you're getting out shot, out hit, out hustle, and just plain losing; you need a spark to give your team some energy. So you start a fight and if you win it, it's a moral boost to your team. They get jacked up.

The last reason is just pure revenge from a past incident.

[Styles p]

hockey is the toughest most exciting sport by far. nothing more exciting then being down one goal with a minute left pulling your goalie and scoring that tying goal. or just a well set up goal. Gobb you missed a great game last night high scoring flyers games are so much fun. also about the fighting if you have guys hitting you that hard all night long frustration builds up and you handle it. like others have said it sparks your team i've seen teams down 2 goals their player wins a fight and they come back. also gobb i'm sure living in philly you've heard about the broad street bullies? the team in the 70's that beat their way to 2 stanley cups. heres a great hour long HBO documentary about them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJgMQDkyJH0 hockey players are by far the toughest out of all the 4 major sports to play such a physically demanding game for 82 games a season is ridiculous, hockey players are a different breed.

[Go Getter]

Is that hypocrisy? Most of the people replying will know more about the NHL than me, I only care about the Bruins and then only when they're going for the Cup. Just asking because I don't see hypocrisy in your statement, that's just them permitting more violence than other sports. I don't think their punishments will end fighting like the NBA has but are they saying they have a hard stance against fighting?


I'm saying that NBA/NFL players have a small skirmish and they are fined, looked down upon, and called thugs. Hockey players do it an they are called tough.

I can see why fighting isn't permitted in the NBA...the game revolves around flow.

I can see why fighting isn't allowed in the NFL....it would be pandemonium.

What I can't see is why NFL players, who push and shove each other all game, are fined and hyper surveilled when it comes to physicality...if the NFL had a fight like this it would be the opening story on every sports news show...people would be questioning their morals for wasting the fans money and all that.

[Go Getter]

Dudes have big padded gloves and helmets on.
They are on ice skates.
There is a glass barrier between fans and players.
Fights are mostly one on one.

Thanks for adding some true insight without the bullshit. I may not agree but I see some of the reasoning.

[Derka]

I'm not seeing where this is hypocrisy. Fighting is just allowed by rule in one and not allowed in the other.

Besides...aside from a few guys, basketball players are far and away the fakest bunch of tough guys going in American pro sports.

[Go Getter]

I'm not seeing where this is hypocrisy. Fighting is just allowed by rule in one and not allowed in the other.

Besides...aside from a few guys, basketball players are far and away the fakest bunch of tough guys going in American pro sports.
I agree. Chris Childs threw the last decent punches I've seen in a b ball game:oldlol:

My thing is that when football players scuffle they are seen as thugs. When hockey players fight it is seen as tough.

The fans lost out lat night with all the penalties...if it was the NBA people would be chastising them for wasting the fans money to settle personal vendettas. No one is questioning the morals of the brawlers from last night.

[Styles p]

I agree. Chris Childs threw the last decent punches I've seen in a b ball game:oldlol:

My thing is that when football players scuffle they are seen as thugs. When hockey players fight it is seen as tough.

The fans lost out lat night with all the penalties...if it was the NBA people would be chastising them for wasting the fans money to settle personal vendettas. No one is questioning the morals of the brawlers from last night.

maybe it's the fact that nfl is an american game and hockey was made by tough canadian mountain men?

[Heavincent]

My thing is that when football players scuffle they are seen as thugs.


Because most of the time they do fight like thugs.

[Go Getter]

Because most of the time they fight like thugs.
:rolleyes:

Yeah because hockey players fight like gentlemen.

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/newsroom/img/posts/2013/11/WS5/1af71ada3.jpg

[Go Getter]

maybe it's the fact that nfl is an american game and hockey was made by tough canadian mountain men?
The NHL is American though.

[BoogieWoogieMan]

The NHL is American though.

With their hockey operations in Toronto? Makes sense.

Edit: Oh shit, they moved it to New York. Didn't know that.

Double edit: It was created in Montreal though.

[Go Getter]

So sophisticated:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esETGHljQi4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYO0-nAjf-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwozfvMJbSI


Because there is nothing thuggish about beating someone over the head with a stick:rolleyes:

[Heavincent]

:rolleyes:

Yeah because hockey players fight like gentlemen.


They do. One man vs another. Everyone else stands and watches.

Andre Johnson vs Cortland Finnegan...now that was a good fight. None of that brawling non-sense with a million bodies flying around.

[Go Getter]

With their hockey operations in Toronto? Makes sense.

Edit: Oh shit, they moved it to New York. Didn't know that.

Double edit: It was created in Montreal though.

I'm not totally disregarding your point but the N in National represents America.

[BoogieWoogieMan]

No one is saying its sophisticated. There is a big push trying to get rid of fighting, hence the instigator penalty. It's mostly the old timers trying to keep it alive, just like it is in the NFL when it comes to helmet to helmet hits.

[Go Getter]

They do. One man vs another. Everyone else stands and watches.

Andre Johnson vs Cortland Finnegan...now that was a good fight. None of that brawling non-sense with a million bodies flying around.


When has a player from the NFL/NBA gotten jumped by a group of guys? Usually guys come in to break up fights.

[Go Getter]

No one is saying its sophisticated. There is a big push trying to get rid of fighting, hence the instigator penalty. It's mostly the old timers trying to keep it alive, just like it is in the NFL when it comes to helmet to helmet hits.
Dude said they fight like gentlemen.

I see a lot of thuggish behavior....especially when they hit each other with sticks.

[BoogieWoogieMan]

Dude said they fight like gentlemen.

I see a lot of thuggish behavior....especially when they hit each other with sticks.

So one single person said it, it must be true? :lol

[Heavincent]

So sophisticated:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esETGHljQi4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYO0-nAjf-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwozfvMJbSI


Because there is nothing thuggish about beating someone over the head with a stick:rolleyes:

That is thuggish behavior that is looked down on by most hockey fans.

[Go Getter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sEagjNAh-U

Dude just hit his own goalie in the face then doesn't even show remorse:oldlol:


Hockeys ugliest plays:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwB21wtLN84

[Styles p]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmStcAnjOqA heres Eric Boulton vs Jay Rosehill from last night, 2 guys going toe to toe and letting them fly look how much energy the fight gave the crowd which in return has an effect on the players and they flyers came back and won the game.

[Go Getter]

So one single person said it, it must be true? :lol
No, of course not, I was simply challenging his stance.

[kentatm]

because no one gives a shit about hockey


The NHL currently selling out more arenas than the NBA.

link (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nhl-selling-more-arenas-nba-225020461--nhl.html)

[Go Getter]

The NHL currently selling out more arenas than the NBA.

link (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nhl-selling-more-arenas-nba-225020461--nhl.html)
Yeah hockey is bigger than most people realize. I went to a hockey school. When we traveled [the b ball team] we ate Arby's and Subway and when they traveled they ate steak and shrimp.

*Mind you they've won so many state titles that we have to have our B team compete for state while our A team travels the country and our b ball team has never won state.

[Go Getter]

A little fighting is good to clear emotions in a game.. in an NBA game players hold back until theyre really sick of whats ever going on and they explode causing a big scuffle spreading across the court

There's ettiquette in hockey fighting.. theyre on skates so its always in a small stretch of ice, they throw punches and grab/block.. its pretty simple on skates. First to go down and fight is over. No 'retaliation' or gang jumpings. Its fair and settles the dispute and makes sure pent up rage doesnt make a player do something he may regret.

When youre out on a bball court you could have these guys chasing each other going everywhere, diving at each other, running around.. its just too wild and uncontrolled. Plus there would be no ettituquette like in hockey.. and they dont have pads and helmets on so it would likely be more dangerous. Just not a good idea for basketball based on how it operates:oldlol:

You mean like beating someone over the head with a stick?

[KevinNYC]

One would thinking having gloves, sticks and fighting on ice would be more dangerous than hardwood.

Players almost never fight with their sticks. It will get you suspended or banned and in some cases arrested.

The reason fighting is considered part of the game is the sticks. People use their sticks all the time in ways the refs don't catch. The argument is guys would use their sticks way too much during the game if they could do it and not face a beating.

Imagine a coach facing a prime Wayne Gretzky? He could tell his players just to slash at Gretzky. What's a couple of penalties vs taking out the greatest player ever? The reason fighting is somewhat sanctioned in hockey is the sticks.

[Go Getter]

Players almost never fight with their sticks. It will get you suspended or banned and in some cases arrested.

The reason fighting is considered part of the game is the sticks. People use their sticks all the time in ways the refs don't catch. The argument is guys would use their sticks way too much during the game if they could do it and not face a beating.

Imagine a coach facing a prime Wayne Gretzky? He could tell his players just to slash at Gretzky. What's a couple of penalties vs taking out the greatest player ever? The reason fighting is somewhat sanctioned in hockey is the sticks.


So with the cameras and technology we have now [I can see what you mean when referring to the 60s-80's] why can't that be cleaned up through the league office?

[chosen_one6]

So much ignorance in this thread about hockey...if you take the time to learn about the sport it can be very, very fun to watch. I hear it's very fun to play as well however I couldn't do it because I value my teeth too much. I personally think it's more entertaining than baseball.

[Go Getter]

So much ignorance in this thread about hockey...if you take the time to learn about the sport it can be very, very fun to watch. I hear it's very fun to play as well however I couldn't do it because I value my teeth too much. I personally think it's more entertaining than baseball.

Well then educate us.

[chosen_one6]

Well then educate us.

Here you go. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hockey)

[Norcaliblunt]

Hockey players who brawl are looked at as goons.

[ROCSteady]

It's strategic. If a team's energy is dormant or seeming nonchalant, a goon or intimidator will bite the bullet and start a fist fight, hopeully to energize his team with some tenacity. Players always react to a fight, a good one no doubt gets them fired up even more than a lame, scripted one.

There's your answer.

[ROCSteady]

Dudes have big padded gloves and helmets on.
They are on ice skates.
There is a glass barrier between fans and players.
Fights are mostly one on one.

Gloves and helmets are shedded when they fight. Once in a while, a helmet may stay on but they usually get thrown off

[Go Getter]

Here you go. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hockey)
Not about hockey you buffoon about the ignorance in your fellow posters remarks.

[ROCSteady]

I'm saying that NBA/NFL players have a small skirmish and they are fined, looked down upon, and called thugs[/B]. Hockey players do it an they are called tough.

I can see why fighting isn't permitted in the NBA...the game revolves around flow.

I can see why fighting isn't allowed in the NFL....it would be pandemonium.

What I can't see is why NFL players, who push and shove each other all game, are fined and hyper surveilled when it comes to physicality...if the NFL had a fight like this it would be the opening story on every sports news show...people would be questioning their morals for wasting the fans money and all that.


This is your main motivation for creating the thread. You just want another circumstance in life to be able to cry unequal racial perception. "When blacks fight, they are thugs, why can't the white hockey guys be seen as lowly goons too wah wah wah wah."

Hockey is a rough, contact sport. Whether you know anything about how the game works or not, fighting serves a legit purpose for the guys playing. It's not JUST for the fans and entertainment.

[MightyWhitey]

Side note: the creator of this thread is openly racist.

Continue.
I concur.

[chosen_one6]

Not about hockey you buffoon about the ignorance in your fellow posters remarks.

:oldlol:

You weren't specific.

The ignorance about the sport and fighting just comes from a lack of understanding of the sport. A few posters have already eloquently stated why fighting is around in hockey and the impact it can have. Some people say hockey is an irrelevant sport or that it's boring to watch but I say those people don't know what they're talking about.

[tmacattack33]

Why is hockey the only major sport that sanctions fighting? What purpose does fighting serve? Is the sport so boring that it actually needs fights to keep interest? It seems highly barbaric.

But seriously, why?

Why can't basketball incorporate this? Floppers can get their @ss beat and the fake tough guys can be weeded out.

In hockey you're on skates. No one can get leverage on a punch if they're on skates. They also have pads.

So it's usually not even that bad.

[NuggetsFan]

Because it's as much apart of the sport as anything? It's been around forever. The actual reasons differs depending on who you ask, it use to be the "enforcers" protected your skill players. People wouldn't throw dirty hits on your star players with a guy out there who's sole purpose was to knock you out. Isn't so much the case these days. Momentum. Helps change the the flow of the game. Venting, sports cause alot of emotion. Guy might be less likely to throw a hit from behind or something dirty if he can just drop the gloves.

Grew up playing hockey and watching it. Some people want it out of the game, IMO that would be terrible. It's apart of the history of the game, and has been on every level. Right down to road hockey with friends. Dropping the mitts is just as much apart of hockey as a stepback jumper. That's why they get away with it. Shit you think that brawl was bad? Go look at the history of the game :oldlol:

[NuggetsFan]

In hockey you're on skates. No one can get leverage on a punch if they're on skates. They also have pads.

So it's usually not even that bad.

Not really. People want it gone because the damage it's doing to players brains, similar to protecting the QB in football. Yeah alot of the times it's nothing seriously but you can get some real crazy one's going. Earlier in the year I believe Parros had a nasty fall. I guess your not aloud to remove your helmet anymore, fights nowadays are nowhere near as bad they use to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKWBupArhpE

Those are some bombs tho. Much more than what you see with basketball players flicking there wrists :oldlol:

[NuggetsFan]

To clarify it's deff the history and how long it's been around. You got kicked out for fighting when I was a kid but you still did it. You seen guys like Tie Domi sticking up for teammates so you wanted to do the same. As you advance the fighting continues regardless of punishment. So for NHL players they've seen it on every level just like they see goals and assists, same with fans.

For the record last nights activities will be on the hot seat among NHL fans. Esp Torts going after Hartley during the intermission, the coaches. Check out an NHL forum, some do consider what Hartley did a major offense. He started his 4th line looking for a fight and Torts was forced to match thus creating the mayhem.

[tpols]

You mean like beating someone over the head with a stick?
nah:oldlol:

like bynum hitting barea at the end of the LA series.. artest and pretty much all his incidents.. if you put Ben Wallace and Ron Artest on ice and let them duke it out Artest never goes into the stands. All the animosity is gone after the fight.. nothing builds up.

[Go Getter]

:oldlol:

You weren't specific.

The ignorance about the sport and fighting just comes from a lack of understanding of the sport. A few posters have already eloquently stated why fighting is around in hockey and the impact it can have. Some people say hockey is an irrelevant sport or that it's boring to watch but I say those people don't know what they're talking about.


I see what you're saying but I don't agree. Hockey players get a pass for thuggish behavior. They staged a fight and no one in here called them classless or selfish but Sherman said snide comments after the game and he is a goon, a thug, someone who needs to be shut up.

[Go Getter]

nah:oldlol:

like bynum hitting barea at the end of the LA series.. artest and pretty much all his incidents.. if you put Ben Wallace and Ron Artest on ice and let them duke it out Artest never goes into the stands. All the animosity is gone after the fight.. nothing builds up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcgivAeVlI4

Hockey players fight fans too.

Artest didn't initiate the fight he got a beer thrown on him. Domi squirted the fans with water and started the confrontation. Still, Artest is the def. of sports bad boy...

[JtotheIzzo]

Hockey has fighting because:

1-protect the smaller skill players who could easily be taken out within the rules of this full contact game(important to remember). Wayne Gretzky's records are so amazing because he played so many years with an unskilled bodyguard (Dave Smenko) on his line. The reason why is a guy like him dancing around the ice is equivalent to a quarterback running wild out of the pocket...he could get drilled, so if someone takes umbrage, there is someone there to make sure they pay for it.

Fighting is an added deterrent to hard hits on the less physical players.

Not everyone fights, players know this, there are guys who are there to score, and muckers. The muckers tend to mingle with each other, when they go at a star or a goalie, their counterpart muckers will sort them out.

You would never see a goon go after a top shelf, non-physical star, and the reason why is it goes again the unwritten rules of the game which are policed through fighting.

2-keep the stick work to a minimal. you hit someone with your stick, you can guarantee you will get a fist in your mouth before the end of the game. if you follow every nasty piece of stick work, there is almost 100% of the time a fight involving the guilty party shortly there after.

3-there is a method to fighting, rare are there cheapshots in a fight and rarely does a fight end where there is not a 'good job' or some exchange at the end. it is an intricate and necessary part of the game, without there would be more injuries and more stoppages in play because everything would need to go through the officiating and the dirty players would have a field day.

[Go Getter]

Hockey has fighting because:

1-protect the smaller skill players who could easily be taken out within the rules of this full contact game(important to remember). Wayne Gretzky's records are so amazing because he played so many years with an unskilled bodyguard (Dave Smenko) on his line. The reason why is a guy like him dancing around the ice is equivalent to a quarterback running wild out of the pocket...he could get drilled, so if someone takes umbrage, there is someone there to make sure they pay for it.

Fighting is an added deterrent to hard hits on the less physical players.

Not everyone fights, players know this, there are guys who are there to score, and muckers. The muckers tend to mingle with each other, when they go at a star or a goalie, their counterpart muckers will sort them out.

You would never see a goon go after a top shelf, non-physical star, and the reason why is it goes again the unwritten rules of the game which are policed through fighting.

2-keep the stick work to a minimal. you hit someone with your stick, you can guarantee you will get a fist in your mouth before the end of the game. if you follow every nasty piece of stick work, there is almost 100% of the time a fight involving the guilty party shortly there after.

3-there is a method to fighting, rare are there cheapshots in a fight and rarely does a fight end where there is not a 'good job' or some exchange at the end. it is an intricate and necessary part of the game, without there would be more injuries and more stoppages in play because everything would need to go through the officiating and the dirty players would have a field day.


Why are the rules policed by fighting and not the FO? Regulations from the commissioner, in theory, could stop all that drama.

If hockey players like to make millions playing a children's game they will comply, no?

[NuggetsFan]

Why are the rules policed by fighting and not the FO?

If hockey players like to make millions playing a children's game they will comply, mo?

You do realize fighting in hockey goes beyond the NHL right? and like I said history of the game. They made fighting a major back in the 20's. That's a whole lot of seasons where fighting is a 5 minute major. Nobody cares because that's the way it's always been, thats hockey :oldlol:

[hateraid]

Why are the rules policed by fighting and not the FO? Regulations from the commissioner, in theory could stop all that drama.

If hockey players like to make millions playing a children's game they will comply, no?

Because fighting has worked since it's inception, so why change it?

and fighting is not that "classless" in the NHL as you're making it out to be. There is a gentlemanly agreement with combatants and monitored closely by the refs. Rarely is there a major injury.

[Go Getter]

You do realize fighting in hockey goes beyond the NHL right? and like I said history of the game. They made fighting a major back in the 20's. That's a whole lot of seasons where fighting is a 5 minute major. Nobody cares because that's the way it's always been, thats hockey :oldlol:


I like the fighting in hockey. I would not like it to change.

My thing is:

Hockey player fights=it's a part of the game; it's how it's always been
Football player fight=he's a thug/goon/poor role model

Which is crazy because the whole game is a shoving match.

Sherman talked trash after a game and he is a thug but hockey players stage a fight and it's shrugged off -- it seems like a double standard to me.

[flipogb]

because football sucks thats why

[Go Getter]

Because fighting has worked since it's inception, so why change it?

and fighting is not that "classless" in the NHL as you're making it out to be. There is a gentlemanly agreement with combatants and monitored closely by the refs. Rarely is there a major injury.

I never tried to make it out as a classless act [only the extreme instances where a person was beat with a stick]...I'm wondering why fighting in hockey is seen as tough but in other sports it's seen as classless.

[Styles p]

I never tried to make it out as a classless act [only the extreme instances where a person was beat with a stick]...I'm wondering why fighting in hockey is seen as tough but in other sports it's seen as classless.
BECAUSE FIGHTING IS NOT PART OF OTHER GAMES what do you not understand? it's expected in hockey.

[GOBB]

Because fighting has worked since it's inception,.

See, inception can be done!

[Go Getter]

BECAUSE FIGHTING IS NOT PART OF OTHER GAMES what do you not understand? it's expected in hockey.


I don't understand why it is EXPECTED in hockey.

I don't understand why hockey players are allowed to regulate themselves and the NHL doesn't do it.

I don't understand why hockey fights are seen as an act of toughness but in other sports it is seen as an act of classlessness.

*The only sports that fighting should be a part of is boxing, wrestling, martial arts, and MMA.

[hateraid]

BECAUSE FIGHTING IS NOT PART OF OTHER GAMES what do you not understand? it's expected in hockey.

This.

also as expressed many times is that it is in olace to protect skilled players. Penaling fighting in other sports protects players. Penalizing in hockey will not stop players from making runs on skill players.

[NuggetsFan]

I like the fighting in hockey. I would not like it to change.

My thing is:

Hockey player fights=it's a part of the game; it's how it's always been
Football player fight=he's a thug/goon/poor role model

Which is crazy because the whole game is a shoving match.

Sherman talked trash after a game and he is a thug but hockey players stage a fight and it's shrugged off -- it seems like a double standard to me.

Uhh because there different sports? If fighting had been legal or had happened consistently since the start of the NFL and across all levels than people wouldn't call it classless.

I remember playing hockey as like a 8 year old and hitting eachother in the face with gloves/helmets on in the dressing rooms. When you played with adults people would always jokingly try to drop the mitts. Have you ever heard the term jersey'd? That stems from hockey.

There's alot of people that want it out of the game. They are struggling too because it's such apart of hockey culture. Fighting isn't apart of the NFL or NBA. Infact the NFL has been trying to make the game less physical by protecting the QB's and WR's and simply changed the rules. People who want fighting gone can't do that.

Not trying to be a dick but can't understand why you can't see this.

[hateraid]

Uhh because there different sports? If fighting had been legal or had happened consistently since the start of the NFL and across all levels than people wouldn't call it classless.

I remember playing hockey as like a 8 year old and hitting eachother in the face with gloves/helmets on in the dressing rooms. When you played with adults people would always jokingly try to drop the mitts. Have you ever heard the term jersey'd? That stems from hockey.

There's alot of people that want it out of the game. They are struggling too because it's such apart of hockey culture. Fighting isn't apart of the NFL or NBA. Infact the NFL has been trying to make the game less physical by protecting the QB's and WR's and simply changed the rules. People who want fighting gone can't do that.

Not trying to be a dick but can't understand why you can't see this.

Not trying to be harsh as well but can't seeing it and not willing to are 2 different things.

But you are absolutely right

[STATUTORY]

because white men fighting on skates is a better optic than black men brawling in shorts, tats, and headbands, the latter is too reminiscent of real life while the former has a surrealistic comedic element



this is about as REAL a response as u gonna get Go Getter

[NuggetsFan]

I don't understand why it is EXPECTED in hockey.

I don't understand why hockey players are allowed to regulate themselves and the NHL doesn't do it.

I don't understand why hockey fights are seen as an act of toughness but in other sports it is seen as an act of classlessness.

*The only sports that fighting should be a part of is boxing, wrestling, martial arts, and MMA.

Hockey use to be a shit show from the get go. Physical play and intimidation play a huge factor even today. Look at the Bruins vs Canucks. That's an aspect to hockey like blitzing is in the NFL. Nobody ever touched Gretzky because the Oilers would surround him with people who would protect him. It's a strategic element to the game. Play physical with the star. Not so much today but still happens among other things.

Hockey is a physical sport that has allowed fighting for a very long time. Just seems you don't like it? NFL, NBA haven't allowed fighting. Therefore when Andre Johnson fights people don't like it. Evander Kane can fight because it's allowed and apart of a tradition that spans longer than you or I.

[Lebron23]

Because it's very hard to throw a perfect punch while wearing skates. And it's part of their Hockey cultures.

[NuggetsFan]

because white men fighting on skates is a better optic than black men brawling in shorts, tats, and headbands, the latter is too reminiscent of real life while the former has a surrealistic comedic element



this is about as REAL a response as u gonna get Go Getter

What about Brasher? Evander Kane had a nice scrap a few nights ago. Look at basketball fights, they look more like women fighting than anything sans the Pistons Brawl and some punches thrown back in the 70's and 80's. NHL fights are waaaay more brutal, NBA scuffles just involve alot of people crowding together and somebody throwing a punch and backing up.

People don't care about the NHL fights because it happened last night, will happen the next night and happened 15 years ago. People care about fighting in the NBA because it has never been allowed and has no place in the game.

Has NOTHING to do with race.

[Go Getter]

Uhh because there different sports? If fighting had been legal or had happened consistently since the start of the NFL and across all levels than people wouldn't call it classless.

I remember playing hockey as like a 8 year old and hitting eachother in the face with gloves/helmets on in the dressing rooms. When you played with adults people would always jokingly try to drop the mitts. Have you ever heard the term jersey'd? That stems from hockey.

There's alot of people that want it out of the game. They are struggling too because it's such apart of hockey culture. Fighting isn't apart of the NFL or NBA. Infact the NFL has been trying to make the game less physical by protecting the QB's and WR's and simply changed the rules. People who want fighting gone can't do that.

Not trying to be a dick but can't understand why you can't see this.


I understand that it is part of the game but it isn't necessary to progress the game. They are different sports but the same country categorizes the players.

We see hockey players as tough guys, but NBA players as punks....in the NBA players like Blake Griffin get targeted and hit more than the average player but he is supposed to keep his composure or he is called a thug for small skirmishes. But hockey players are lauded...it's hypocritical to me.

Not trying to be a dick but can't understand why you can't see this.

[Go Getter]

Because it's very hard to throw a perfect punch while wearing skates. And it's part of their Hockey cultures.


It's a part of basketball and football culture to talk trash but if it finds it's way to TV people get their panties all in a bunch.

[longtime lurker]

I understand that it is part of the game but it isn't necessary to progress the game. They are different sports but the same country categorizes the players.

We see hockey players as tough guys, but NBA players as punks....in the NBA players like Blake Griffin get targeted and hit more than the average player but he is supposed to keep his composure or he is called a thug for small skirmishes. But hockey players are lauded...it's hypocritical to me.

Not trying to be a dick but can't understand why you can't see this.

What's your question? Why is there fighting in hockey or why do basketball players get labelled as thugs while NHL players don't?

[Solidape]

In light of tonight's brawl between the Flames & Canucks I wanted to ask the question: why is it that hockey players get away with fighting yet in basketball [and other major sports] small scuffles are treated like major offenses?

Because when non-colored folks do it, its toughness, competitive, part of the game, needed for the sport, etc etc. When colored folks do it, its ghetto, poor sportsmanship, dangerous colored folks acting up for no reason, thugs, gangsters, etc.

No one can explain why hockey needs fighting. If they ban people from NHL forever for fighting, after the first 5 guys get banned, the rest will get in line and stop fighting. Money > anything when it comes to professional sports.

[NuggetsFan]

I understand that it is part of the game but it isn't necessary to progress the game. They are different sports but the same country categorizes the players.

The same country? Hockey is waaay more dominant in Canada than the USA where in some markets it's practically dead. Where as with basketball some areas in Canada could careless about it. So yeah North America but different areas and totally different fans. Not to mention LeBron James is everywhere, probably some people in L.A who don't know who Crosby is.

You said it yourself tho, different sports.

Fighting in a sport where it's allowed and has been always = Nobody caring.
Fighting in a sport where fighting isn't allowed = get called a thug.

Kinda like breaking the law, thug. Follow the rules of the law, not a thug. Like I said tho that incident last night will have people putting players on the hot seat. For example I've seen somebody call Kevin Bieska who fought last night a "spot picker". Which fans do because you know fighting it apart of hockey.



We see hockey players as tough guys, but NBA players as punks....in the NBA players like Blake Griffin get targeted and hit more than the average player but he is supposed to keep his composure or he is called a thug for small skirmishes. But hockey players are lauded...it's hypocritical to me.

Seriously? How can't you understand that fighting isn't apart of basketball like hockey. What Blake Griffin is doing is suspendable. People do call players names when they do something similar in hockey. Matt Cooke is considering a piece of shit because he does dirty things that get him suspended. Tie Domi wasn't because he dropped the gloves with other players who also wanted to drop the gloves and did something that has been apart of hockey for ages. Even than Domi got his fairshare of hate from opposing fans, esp the over the glass thing.

Also compare the two. A large group of players, nobody goes toe to toe. You have guys like Melo who sucker people and run. Guys who talk shit and never actually throw a punch and just look like immature kids since you know, it's not legal to fight in basketball. With hockey when somebody lays a dirty hit and a guy steps up and defends his teammate you can feel the momentum sway. Two guys going at it you've seen since you started watching the game, it's like a crossover. It's apart of the game, with basketball seeing Kobe swing his arms at somebody looks stupid because your like this is basketball.


Not trying to be a dick but can't understand why you can't see this

Yeah your a complete fool. It'd be like me trying to talk about baseball. I don't even know what your trying to get at. You don't even realize how laughable what your saying is, which is crazy. This is up there for people blindly thinking whats coming out of there mouth isn't completely ridiculous. Even the people trying to get rid of fighting in hockey understand what I'm saying.

BTW somebody calling an NBA player a punk is no different than somebody calling a hockey player a goon :roll:

[BrownEye007]

I don't watch hockey often, but when I do I hope for a fight.

[brandonislegend]

because no one gives a shit about hockey
Hockey games have sold out more arenas than Basketball has this season. Fact.

[NuggetsFan]

It's a part of basketball and football culture to talk trash but if it finds it's way to TV people get their panties all in a bunch.

LOL and you don't think they do the same with the NHL? You don't think fans aren't calling Torts or what Hartley did bush league? .. It just appears you have no fcking idea about hockey and came on ISH to be like uhhhh why do people not give hockey players shit for fighting and talking about something you have no idea about.

Look up Sean Avery. Check out Don Cherry. Fighting is simply apart of the game but people still call players goons, give them shit when they do something stupid. John Scott was crucified by some because he's a 6'6 enforced which is rare today because enforcers are deff a dying breed, who tried to fight Phil Kessel. People tore that situation apart because Kessel swung his stick at him, and you know what? He was called a PUNK. People called Scott an idiot too.

People just don't hate on LEGAL hockey plays that are apart of the game, just like people don't hate Kobe for knocking down a 3.

Trash talk isn't in the rulebook you fcking moron.

[NuggetsFan]

NuggetsFan, not trying to be a dick or whatever, but why is the fighting necessary? Did you already go through it?

Yeah dude. Instead of rambling :lol

- Police the game themselves, players are held accountable for the plays they make, protect the stars.

- Momentum. 82 game season. Team is playing lazy and you get a scrap going it can completely change the game.

- Emotion. Venting, rivalries etc.

- History/Tradition. It's been around since what like the 20's? Every player watched it on TV since they were kids and have grown up with it in there leagues as well.

[Go Getter]

LOL and you don't think they do the same with the NHL? You don't think fans aren't calling Torts or what Hartley did bush league? .. It just appears you have no fcking idea about hockey and came on ISH to be like uhhhh why do people not give hockey players shit for fighting and talking about something you have no idea about.

Look up Sean Avery. Check out Don Cherry. Fighting is simply apart of the game but people still call players goons, give them shit when they do something stupid. John Scott was crucified by some because he's a 6'6 enforced which is rare today because enforcers are deff a dying breed, who tried to fight Phil Kessel. People tore that situation apart because Kessel swung his stick at him, and you know what? He was called a PUNK. People called Scott an idiot too.

People just don't hate on LEGAL hockey plays that are apart of the game, just like people don't hate Kobe for knocking down a 3.

Trash talk isn't in the rulebook you fcking moron.

You said culture and I pointed to a cultural aspect of the game.

What I hear from you is justification of violence in hockey simply "because it's tradition."

That doesn't really answer the question for me.

The sport could be more hockey and little to no fighting but that's the way people like it.

Again, I'm not downing hockey just the perception of fighting in hockey vs. other sports.

Also, the NHL is an American corporation...no matter how popular the sport is in Canada or other areas, the N in NHL stands for the US.

[NuggetsFan]

Why is it more needed in this sport than any other sport? It would seem like all those things you said could apply to any team sport yet they absolutely frown upon fighting and it's certainly not part of the game. I figured there was a deeper meaning.

The physicality maybe. They didn't even use helmets when hockey first started. Hockey is body contact, NBA is not. NFL has hit obviously but has a much slower pace and less risk of "dirty" plays. I don't even know how NFL could have fighting? Inbetween plays and just give out 5 minute penalties? Just give a flag and let the players stay in the game? Hockey has a penalty box. Fighting is in the rule book right down to an instigator penalty. NFL has fighting as an ejection similar to minor leagues of hockey.

It's not needed more probably, actually some people these days who think it should be outta the game. It's just apart of the sport, it's how the game was made. I guess you don't get to pick and choose the rules. I find it entertaining so I'm happy with it. It's like how you can't kick the ball in basketball, it's just not allowed.

I personally don't see how it could be any other way as person who's watched it/played it for a pretty long time.

[Solidape]

Why is it more needed in this sport than any other sport? It would seem like all those things you said could apply to any team sport yet they absolutely frown upon fighting and it's certainly not part of the game. I figured there was a deeper meaning.

Deeper meaning is this....when white folks do it, its part of the game, when colored folks do it, they are thugs and gangsters.

You mean to tell me that fighting is needed more in NHL versus NFL?

[Solidape]

The physicality maybe. They didn't even use helmets when hockey first started. Hockey is body contact, NBA is not. NFL has hit obviously but has a much slower pace and less risk of "dirty" plays. I don't even know how NFL could have fighting? Inbetween plays and just give out 5 minute penalties? Just give a flag and let the players stay in the game? Hockey has a penalty box. Fighting is in the rule book right down to an instigator penalty. NFL has fighting as an ejection similar to minor leagues of hockey.

It's not needed more probably, actually some people these days who think it should be outta the game. It's just apart of the sport, it's how the game was made. I guess you don't get to pick and choose the rules. I find it entertaining so I'm happy with it. It's like how you can't kick the ball in basketball, it's just not allowed.

I personally don't see how it could be any other way as person who's watched it/played it for a pretty long time.

Football (American) started it without head gear protection too.

[Go Getter]

The physicality maybe. They didn't even use helmets when hockey first started. Hockey is body contact, NBA is not. NFL has hit obviously but has a much slower pace and less risk of "dirty" plays. I don't even know how NFL could have fighting? Inbetween plays and just give out 5 minute penalties? Just give a flag and let the players stay in the game? Hockey has a penalty box. Fighting is in the rule book right down to an instigator penalty. NFL has fighting as an ejection similar to minor leagues of hockey.

It's not needed more probably, actually some people these days who think it should be outta the game. It's just apart of the sport, it's how the game was made. I guess you don't get to pick and choose the rules. I find it entertaining so I'm happy with it. It's like how you can't kick the ball in basketball, it's just not allowed.

I personally don't see how it could be any other way as person who's watched it/played it for a pretty long time.

NFL has less chance of dirty plays?:biggums:

Idk about that.

[Go Getter]

There is no gear in rugby either but they don't fight from what I've seen.

[Solidape]

NFL has less chance of dirty plays?:biggums:

Idk about that.

Dudes just trying to justify a point to support his argument

NHL fight supporters are like those dudes that try to explain how evolution is wrong and creationism is more real.

Fun fact, NFL started without helmets so that rules out NHL playing without protection. Cheap shots in NFL can be had in every play, in fact happen more often than you would think. Ever heard of tripping, clipping, gouging???

[Solidape]

There is no gear in rugby either but they don't fight from what I've seen.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[NuggetsFan]

You said culture and I pointed to a cultural aspect of the game.

Correct. It's also apart of the rules of the sport tho, trash talk is not. Fighting is both apart of the culture and in the rule book.


What I hear from you is justification of violence in hockey simply "because it's tradition."

It's hockey. If you think it's too violent or fighting shouldn't be allowed that's completely fair to say. You would not be alone. Just don't compare it to sports where fighting is illegal and not apart of the game. That's stupid, what you said here is not. That's a legit opinion.


That doesn't really answer the question for me.

The sport could be more hockey and little to no fighting but that's the way people like it.


Yeah that's fine. It's the way I like it. Like I said there are the hockey fans that dislike it and think it should be removed. It has been to some degree too, mostly because of enforcers post hockey. Concussions, quality of life etc.


Again, I'm not downing hockey just the perception of fighting in hockey vs. other sports.

This is what's ridiculous. Too lazy to continue to ramble but just doesn't make sense. Basketball and football fighting isn't allowed, so why compare it to a sport where fighting is apart of? ..


Also, the NHL is an American corporation...no matter how popular the sport is in Canada or other areas, the N in NHL stands for the US.

This is where you can tell your lack of hockey knowledge is exposed.

464 players in the NHL are from Canada.
215 from USA
69 from Sweeden
37 from Czech Rebuplic
31 from Russia
27 from Finland.

NHL is dominant in Canada. It's Canada's game, TSN is the main media and that's from Canada. The media coverage in Canada compared to the states is insane. The main route to the NHL is playing in the CHL, other would be playing in Europe of Div 1 in America.

I don't care if the N stands for national how the NBA/NFL is viewed is dominant in America like hockey is dominant in Canada. PERIOD.

[NuggetsFan]

NFL has less chance of dirty plays?:biggums:

Idk about that.

IMO yeah. What do you have? Late hits? Horse collar? Cheap shots obviously, not hockey is filled with cheap shit.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/3885803/eratspear_medium.gif

Latest incident in the NHL that's getting ripped apart by the media/fans. Basically getting called a "punk"

[NuggetsFan]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

I have no knowledge of rugby so won't speak on it. Something you two should learn from.

[Solidape]

IMO yeah. What do you have? Late hits? Horse collar? Cheap shots obviously, not hockey is filled with cheap shit.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/3885803/eratspear_medium.gif

Latest incident in the NHL that's getting ripped apart by the media/fans. Basically getting called a "punk"

NHL can always make rules to suspend that guy for 20 (or XX games) games without pay!

After a while this sort of behavior will go down, not away, money talks.

[Go Getter]

IMO yeah. What do you have? Late hits? Horse collar? Cheap shots obviously, not hockey is filled with cheap shit.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/3885803/eratspear_medium.gif

Latest incident in the NHL that's getting ripped apart by the media/fans. Basically getting called a "punk"


Yeah but the pile ups in football are frequent and it is very easy to do all sorts of cheap stuff without getting caught.

[NuggetsFan]

NHL can always make rules to suspend that guy for 20 (or XX games) games without pay!

After a while this sort of behavior will go down, not away, money talks.

They could and he will get suspended, and a player like Erat won't even have to drop the gloves usually. Like I said the game has changed.

Your issue seems to be with how stupid fighting in hockey is. Which I understand completely. Tons of people are like wait a minute why do they fight? That's alright, even hockey fans who believe that.

It's the comparing to the likes of NFL/NBA that's funny. It's like a non basketball fan being like hey they kick the ball in soccer, why can't they in basketball?

Take your issue with the creators/innovators/pioneers of the sports because are who formed the game. People with hockey just so happened to include fighting right or wrong how it is and why it's different from the NBA and NFL both of which I like just as much if not more :confusedshrug:

[Solidape]

Yeah but the pile ups in football are frequent and it is very easy to do all sorts of cheap stuff without getting caught.

Every sport has their cheap shot opportunities, only difference is that some hockey fans try to justify the use of those in their sport because hockey is magically a different sport and must have fighting or the game cannot work.

Start blacklisting players that fight from NHL and in a few years no one will fight, at least the smart ones wont.

[NuggetsFan]

Yeah but the pile ups in football are frequent and it is very easy to do all sorts of cheap stuff without getting caught.

True. I feel with football the craziest hits are the legal ones tho and players don't care because that's football, just like fights are hockey. Really tho that's subjective, I feel I see more dirty plays in hockey. I could be wrong.

[Solidape]

They could and he will get suspended, and a player like Erat won't even have to drop the gloves usually. Like I said the game has changed.

Your issue seems to be with how stupid fighting in hockey is. Which I understand completely. Tons of people are like wait a minute why do they fight? That's alright, even hockey fans who believe that.

It's the comparing to the likes of NFL/NBA that's funny. It's like a non basketball fan being like hey they kick the ball in soccer, why can't they in basketball?

Take your issue with the creators/innovators/pioneers of the sports because are who formed the game. People with hockey just so happened to include fighting right or wrong how it is and why it's different from the NBA and NFL both of which I like just as much if not more :confusedshrug:

Those dudes are long dead man.

[NuggetsFan]

Start blacklisting players that fight from NHL and in a few years no one will fight, at least the smart ones wont.

This is actually kinda getting funny now :oldlol:

[Go Getter]

True. I feel with football the craziest hits are the legal ones tho and players don't care because that's football, just like fights are hockey. Really tho that's subjective, I feel I see more dirty plays in hockey. I could be wrong.


I know it seems like I want to tear down hockey but I don't. I'm challenging people's perception of hockey players compared to the perception of other athletes.

[NuggetsFan]

Those dudes are long dead man.

Yup. Ask the people in charge now how hard it is to change the past. There's players/coaches/GM's even who probably want fighting gone. I'm sure someday it will too, but not anytime soon because as it stands now it's just such apart of hockey.

All tho they've added new rules. Ugly goalie fight this year with one player who didn't wanna drop them that resulted in a new rule, Emery I believe was the idiot. He got called out for it by the media, fans tho. Not sure how Go Getter didn't see it.

[Go Getter]

Every sport has their cheap shot opportunities, only difference is that some hockey fans try to justify the use of those in their sport because hockey is magically a different sport and must have fighting or the game cannot work.


I kind of get this feeling as well.

[NuggetsFan]

I know it seems like I want to tear down hockey but I'm not. I'm challenging people's perception of hockey players compared to the perception of other athletes.

Which is easily answered. One sport it's allowed. Why it's allowed or should it be allowed? Say what you will. It is tho. Other sports it's not allowed. That's why people perceive them different. With that being said people/media do give NHL players shit for certain stuff surrounding fights, guess you miss it.

I'm sure other factors come into play, not that naive. NHL players make waaaaay less money, aren't in the media as much in America, come from different backgrounds, don't have as much off the court issues such as the Kobe incident, obviously racist people out there and it's mostly white guys. Compare Crosby, Duchene, Doughty to LeBron, J.R Smith etc. or whatever and yeah people are douchebags about it.

That's subjective tho, not concrete. Whats concrete is the rule book allows for players to fight in hockey and than get sent to the penalty box, NBA/NFL don't allow that.

[hateraid]

Seriously, I've never seen a thread go in this many circles :lol
I guess what it boils down to is this (not directed at you Go getter)
Humans are ignorant when it comes to things they are unfamiliar with. That's really the explanation to why hockey fights are not accepted outside the hockey culture.

Let's look at it another way.

What if someone up in Flin Flon, Manitoba, Canada who has never seen a lick of basketball in his life catches an NBA game. He notices that when a shot goes up from deep nobody goes up and challenges it before it goes in the net. We explain it's called goal tending, it's not a new rule, it's been around forever, it gives the other team a shot at scoring from far. The guys says, well in every other sport you can contest a ball/puck from the goal line in any spot on the field/court/ice, why is it different in basketball? Is it hypocrisy?

Is there something wrong with his perception? That's the way he sees it in other sports? What makes basketball any different? It all boils down to accepting different cultures

[STATUTORY]

Seriously, I've never seen a thread go in this many circles :lol
I guess what it boils down to is this (not directed at you Go getter)
Humans are ignorant when it comes to things they are unfamiliar with. That's really the explanation to why hockey fights are not accepted outside the hockey culture.

Let's look at it another way.

What if someone up in Flin Flon, Manitoba, Canada who has never seen a lick of basketball in his life catches an NBA game. He notices that when a shot goes up from deep nobody goes up and challenges it before it goes in the net. We explain it's called goal tending, it's not a new rule, it's been around forever, it gives the other team a shot at scoring from far. The guys says, well in every other sport you can contest a ball/puck from the goal line in any spot on the field/court/ice, why is it different in basketball? Is it hypocrisy?

Is there something wrong with his perception? That's the way he sees it in other sports? What makes basketball any different? It all boils down to accepting different cultures

:biggums: what kind of analogy is that. Fighting is not enabled by the rules of the sport, it's prohibited in Hockey just as it is in basketball. what we are discussing is why society and audience tacitly acknowledge and accept fighting between players in hockey while abhor it in basketball. it's decidedly not an issue of rules but perception

[hateraid]

:biggums: what kind of analogy is that. Fighting is not enabled by the rules of the sport, it's prohibited in Hockey just as it is in basketball. what we are discussing is why society and audience tacitly acknowledge and accept fighting between players in hockey while abhor it in basketball. it's decidedly not an issue of rules but perception
You've just agreed with me and didn't realize it

[Norcaliblunt]

Baseball has dugout clearing brawls every year, that result in only cupcake penalties, lets add them into the discussion.

[Styles p]

ahhh can't wait to watch this flyers and islanders game in an hour, hopefully wayne simmonds(he's black since this is really what this thread is about) beats the shit out of an islander.

[Go Getter]

ahhh can't wait to watch this flyers and islanders game in an hour, hopefully wayne simmonds(he's black since this is really what this thread is about) beats the shit out of an islander.



Man sit yo simple ass down.:facepalm

[Go Getter]

Baseball has dugout clearing brawls every year, that result in only cupcake penalties, lets add them into the discussion.
:rolleyes:


Cupcake penalties? People get suspended for games that results in the loss of thousands of dollars.


Hockey players are the only athletes that get a slap on the wrist for fighting.

[Norcaliblunt]

:rolleyes:


Cupcake penalties? People get suspended for games that results in the loss of thousands of dollars.


Hockey players are the only athletes that get a slap on the wrist for fighting.

You are not automatically penalized for leaving the dugout in a baseball brawl like you are for leaving the bench in the NBA. Major League Baseball continues to allow dugout clearing brawls to be apart of the game for some reason.

And for the thousandth time, fighting is apart of the sport historically/traditionally and within the rules of Hockey, and people still look at it negatively. As for perception, all you have to do is play hockey while not even being an enforcer or brawler, and people have stereotypes about you being some rugged toothless goon. Quit acting like hockey is looked at in some fashionable light.

Lastly I find it interesting that basketball is the only team sport I can think of off the top of my head where a team can commit a penalty and benefit from it. You can commit fouls in hope the other team misses the free throws in all sorts of different situations such as hack a Shaq, players going hard in the paint, and end of the game scenarios. How is committing penalties aka breaking the rules supposed to help you win? BECAUSE IT IS PART OF THE GAME.

[NuggetsFan]

You are not automatically penalized for leaving the dugout in a baseball brawl like you are for leaving the bench in the NBA. Major League Baseball continues to allow dugout clearing brawls to be apart of the game for some reason.

And for the thousandth time, fighting is apart of the sport historically/traditionally and within the rules of Hockey, and people still look at it negatively. As for perception, all you have to do is play hockey while not even being an enforcer or brawler, and people have stereotypes about you being some rugged toothless goon. Quit acting like hockey is looked at in some fashionable light.

Lastly I find it interesting that basketball is the only team sport I can think of off the top of my head where a team can commit a penalty and benefit from it. You can commit fouls in hope the other team misses the free throws in all sorts of different situations such as hack a Shaq, players going hard in the paint, and end of the game scenarios. How is committing penalties aka breaking the rules supposed to help you win? BECAUSE IT IS PART OF THE GAME.

Don't bother. He's blindly talking about something he has no idea about and actually thinks he's making sense.

Doesn't matter what reasons you give. I think a big thing with perception is country for sure. Hockey is Canada's game much like the NBA/NFL is American. Alot of Americans don't grow up with hockey as much therefore the concept of fighting seems crazy where as everywhere in Canada are comfortable with it. Therefore the people in and around hockey perceive the players differently when they fight where in the NBA people are NOT comfortable with fighting therefore when it happens those fans attack it.


Here's bottom line: Whether u like or hate CGY-VAN line brawl - plenty of views both way - it's "accepted" in NHL with prescribed penalties.


- Bob McKezie. Basically our guy at the ESPN of hockey, since you know ESPN could give a shit about it. Big analyst at TSN.

What Go Getter can't grasp is people will call some guys out for it. They will get called goons. Coaches will get heat. Players will be perceived differently. Even with fighting being apart of the game it still happens. You just have no idea about hockey.

[kentatm]

Maybe if NBA players didn't have a rep for throwing bitch ass sucker punches in fights they wouldn't get hated on so much.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/jsm33187/Basketball/melo_punch.gif

Or maybe, just maybe, its as simple as 6'8 dudes pack such a heavier punch than the average 5'10 to 6'1 sized guys in other sports that its wise to not allow them to potentially KO a fool and wreck his career.

Its not like you can punch a guy as hard on skates like you can on an NBA court. Even baseball fights tend to end in a tackle in the dirt more than anything.

Hell, I once saw Shaq take a swing at Brad Miller after he had turned his head and started walking the other way. Had Shaq connected it probably would have killed Miller.

[Go Getter]

Don't bother. He's blindly talking about something he has no idea about and actually thinks he's making sense.

Doesn't matter what reasons you give. I think a big thing with perception is country for sure. Hockey is Canada's game much like the NBA/NFL is American. Alot of Americans don't grow up with hockey as much therefore the concept of fighting seems crazy where as everywhere in Canada are comfortable with it. Therefore the people in and around hockey perceive the players differently when they fight where in the NBA people are NOT comfortable with fighting therefore when it happens those fans attack it.



- Bob McKezie. Basically our guy at the ESPN of hockey, since you know ESPN could give a shit about it. Big analyst at TSN.

What Go Getter can't grasp is people will call some guys out for it. They will get called goons. Coaches will get heat. Players will be perceived differently. Even with fighting being apart of the game it still happens. You just have no idea about hockey.

I get it. And I ACCEPT it. Hell, I even LIKE it. But I still think that it's hypocritical that we view ball players as thugs for their image and speech yet hockey players are seen as tough for fighting and knocking each other's teeth out.

I agree that I do not know about hockey which is why I am asking...I appreciate you guys explaining your POV to me the best you can and being respectful and patient with me.

:cheers:

[Go Getter]

Maybe if NBA players didn't have a rep for throwing bitch ass sucker punches in fights they wouldn't get hated on so much.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/jsm33187/Basketball/melo_punch.gif

Or maybe, just maybe, its as simple as 6'8 dudes pack such a heavier punch than the average 5'10 to 6'1 sized guys in other sports that its wise to not allow them to potentially KO a fool and wreck his career.

Its not like you can punch a guy as hard on skates like you can on an NBA court. Even baseball fights tend to end in a tackle in the dirt more than anything.

Hell, I once saw Shaq take a swing at Brad Miller after he had turned his head and started walking the other way. Had Shaq connected it probably would have killed Miller.


C'mon man hockey players cheap shot each other in the nuts and break sticks over each other's bodies....

[Rasheed1]

I think pure Hockey fans appreciate the fighting as a "part of the game" and don't differentiate the way other fans who go between Hockey and other sports do..

some people love hockey fighting, but act like a fight in basketball is a sign of societal decay..

"I wont be taking my kids to any more NBA games... Too much thuggish behavior"

But the same mofo will rave about an "epic" hockey fight and not view it as a moral problem...

[Go Getter]

I think pure Hockey fans appreciate the fighting as a "part of the game" and don't differentiate the way other fans who go between Hockey and other sports do..

some people love hockey fighting, but act like a fight in basketball is a sign of societal decay..

"I wont be taking my kids to any more NBA games... Too much thuggish behavior"

But the same mofo will rave about an "epic" hockey fight and not view it as a moral problem...


Exactly my point.

[NuggetsFan]

I think pure Hockey fans appreciate the fighting as a "part of the game" and don't differentiate the way other fans who go between Hockey and other sports do..

some people love hockey fighting, but act like a fight in basketball is a sign of societal decay..

"I wont be taking my kids to any more NBA games... Too much thuggish behavior"

But the same mofo will rave about an "epic" hockey fight and not view it as a moral problem...

And the mofo would be kinda correct. A fight on the basketball court is assault, it doesn't exist within the game of basketball. It does within hockey, right or wrong whatever your opinion is it still doesn't change the fact that fighting is included in the sport of hockey.

As a fan of both that's the difference. Melo suckering somebody is like uhhh what's happening this is basketball. Two guys dropping the gloves and both willingly accepting to fight is hockey. You grew up with it, you've seen it and it's as common as anything. Not the case with basketball.

Look at basketball scrums. It's like 4 vs 1 .. sucker punches .. complete and utter confusion .. guys trying to fight players who don't want to fight back. Now that happens in hockey at times too and when it does it's treated EXACTLY the same as it is in basketball.

Look at the brawl he's talking about. Everybody squares off 1 vs 1, everybody is willing, after the fight nobody needs to be calmed down or dragged off the floor like with basketball players. A hockey fight is controlled chaos and when it isn't it's dealt with, fighting in basketball is just pure chaos that would need to be dealt with every single time.

People defend and include the "good" hockey fights. I remember seeing a junior game with Patrick Roy's son. He's a goalie and got in a fight with an unwilling participant. He was charged with assault I'm pretty sure, can't count how many times I've seen NBA players to runs at guys who want no part in it.

NHL players like and want to fight, NFL/NBA probably don't :lol

[brandonislegend]

Maybe because hockey it seems they actually respect eachother (after fights they tap heads) in basketball everyone is p*ssies and they act like a bunch of pre madonnas

[ROCSteady]

Jeez this thread is so pointless now. Multiple people explained fighting in the fabric of hockey and why it isn't a pointless display of goonary (although there have been multiple acts of downright assault in hockey, not cool) but thick skulls wanna cry about double standards.

This thread really just comes down to racial sensitivity. OP and other people have gotten it explained in many ways in various forms but still can't just accept that dudes swinging on a basketball court simply isn't the same thing as it is in a sport where physical contact and intimidation plays a role in every game. It's like they want Rev Al Sharpton to come out and condemn the white Canadian/Euro sport for unjust racial perceptions.

It's mainly black dudes in here still sensitive that black dudes get seen as feral and impulsive or angry when they throw punches in sports where it's not accepted. It's often an unfair stereotype but what else needs to be said about fighting in hockey vs. basketball? OP's objection to fighting in hockey as having a palpable cause and effect is his plea for whites and blacks to be seen in the same light, despite how the dynamics of the sports differ.

[Go Getter]

Jeez this thread is so pointless now. Multiple people explained fighting in the fabric of hockey and why it isn't a pointless display of goonary (although there have been multiple acts of downright assault in hockey, not cool) but thick skulls wanna cry about double standards.

This thread really just comes down to racial sensitivity. OP and other people have gotten it explained in many ways in various forms but still can't just accept that dudes swinging on a basketball court simply isn't the same thing as it is in a sport where physical contact and intimidation plays a role in every game. It's like they want Rev Al Sharpton to come out and condemn the white Canadian/Euro sport for unjust racial perceptions.

It's mainly black dudes in here still sensitive that black dudes get seen as feral and impulsive or angry when they throw punches in sports where it's not accepted. It's often an unfair stereotype but what else needs to be said about fighting in hockey vs. basketball? OP's objection to fighting in hockey as having a palpable cause and effect is his plea for whites and blacks to be seen in the same light, despite how the dynamics of the sports differ.

1. I have stated thatI like hockey, went to a hockey school, and watched the Blackhawks beat the Bruins in a thrilling shootout a few days ago. I don't want the sport to change.

2. Don't project your bullshit on me. There is nothing about hockey that requires fighting. The aim is to score more goals. Fighting in sports is thuggery no matter if it be NBA/MLB/NHL/Soccer.

3. The only sports where fighting should be permissible is MMA, martial arts, wrestling, and boxing.

4. America unfairly labels black and latino men "thugs" for their appearance but the ACTIONS of hockey players [such as fighting at the beginning of the game and not playing] are not seen as thug-like -- people are making excuses for this poor behavior.


That is a well-thought out rebuttal to fighting in hockey. It is not based in racial hatred it is based in logic. Please refer to brother Rasheed1's post as well.

I do not hate anyone and I plan on going to a hockey game next week. My son wants to play hockey so I'm learning more about the rules and culture.

[ROCSteady]

1.) Claiming not wanting to change the sport contradicts with your #3 statement.

2.)It doesn't require fighting but it does serve a definite purpose to the guys on the ice, at higher levels. It rallies a group and hockey, above all sports, hockey teams have a greater camraderie (outside goaltender) than all team sports, due in part to the protection and sense of duty guys have for each other. I'm not even a dude who gets off on the fights when I watch NHL games but I did play the game.

3.) You are not an authority on what should be accepted and not accepted in a rough, physical and emotional sport where checking/hitting guys to get them tired is strategy. Dudes looking to punch each other out to intensify their team is also strategy. Why is that so hard to understand?

4.)Hockey fans do not give a pass to guys who aim to do nothing but fight. Goons are looked at with disdain by the majority of hockey purists. They are looked at the same way a dirty player like Suh is seen by the opposition. Even lower becuz fans know these guys don't offer much in terms of playmaking. Big white Canadien farm boys who only get on ice to fight ARE seen as thugs and goons as it pertains to the sport by people who actually know hockey enough to know their role. The White America you are referring to are oblivious to the nuances of the sport, they can't call these guys thugs because they don't know their purpose or even who the hell they are.

Good look to your son in his pursuit of playing the game and good luck with understanding and enjoying the intensity that hockey parents are subjected to. Ice hockey was by far the most fun sport to play for me but I never tried football.

[Rasheed1]

And the mofo would be kinda correct. A fight on the basketball court is assault, it doesn't exist within the game of basketball. It does within hockey, right or wrong whatever your opinion is it still doesn't change the fact that fighting is included in the sport of hockey.

As a fan of both that's the difference. Melo suckering somebody is like uhhh what's happening this is basketball. Two guys dropping the gloves and both willingly accepting to fight is hockey. You grew up with it, you've seen it and it's as common as anything. Not the case with basketball.

Look at basketball scrums. It's like 4 vs 1 .. sucker punches .. complete and utter confusion .. guys trying to fight players who don't want to fight back. Now that happens in hockey at times too and when it does it's treated EXACTLY the same as it is in basketball.

Look at the brawl he's talking about. Everybody squares off 1 vs 1, everybody is willing, after the fight nobody needs to be calmed down or dragged off the floor like with basketball players. A hockey fight is controlled chaos and when it isn't it's dealt with, fighting in basketball is just pure chaos that would need to be dealt with every single time.

People defend and include the "good" hockey fights. I remember seeing a junior game with Patrick Roy's son. He's a goalie and got in a fight with an unwilling participant. He was charged with assault I'm pretty sure, can't count how many times I've seen NBA players to runs at guys who want no part in it.

NHL players like and want to fight, NFL/NBA probably don't :lol

Oh please.. :rolleyes:

BBall fights are not all sucker punches and some kind of shady sh*t...

guys do much worse in hockey games tham anything Carmelo has ever done.. Give me a break..

It is simply a double standard (that you obviously endorse)..

In Hockey its "tough guys".. But when guys in other sports fight, its a Moral and societal problem that your kids need to be sheltered from :oldlol:

Stop the bullsh*t please

[NuggetsFan]

Oh please.. :rolleyes:

BBall fights are not all sucker punches and some kind of shady sh*t...

guys do much worse in hockey games tham anything Carmelo has ever done.. Give me a break..

It is simply a double standard (that you obviously endorse)..

In Hockey its "tough guys".. But when guys in other sports fight, its a Moral and societal problem that your kids need to be sheltered from :oldlol:

Stop the bullsh*t please

Holy fck. Am I getting trolled?

There's toooooons of people who think fighting in hockey is stupid and should be removed. That's a fair opinion. Not understanding the difference between being allowed to fight in hockey and not in basketball is LAUGHABLEEEE :oldlol:

Show me basketball fights where two people square off and everybody else around them calms down and watches? Show me where NBA players don't throw hissy fits and need other grown men to calm them down? Every scrum turns into chaos. Your right people do worse things in hockey games and when they do TSN or the fans completely go all in on them, probably worse than basketball. Look up Don Cherry, dude says way worse shit than anybody on TNT.

Point is there's clearly composed fights where all hell doesn't break loose. Even with a bench brawl things are more controlled than NBA scrums. Look at the Malice @ the Palice. The brawl he's talking about? They finished the game :oldlol:

[NuggetsFan]

Fck it. Too many words wasted. I agree, why the hell is Kobe Bryant throwing down with LeBron James any different than Joe Thornton and Jamie Benn fighting. Same exact thing :lol

[Rasheed1]

Holy fck. Am I getting trolled?

There's toooooons of people who think fighting in hockey is stupid and should be removed. That's a fair opinion. Not understanding the difference between being allowed to fight in hockey and not in basketball is LAUGHABLEEEE :oldlol:

Show me basketball fights where two people square off and everybody else around them calms down and watches? Show me where NBA players don't throw hissy fits and need other grown men to calm them down? Every scrum turns into chaos. Your right people do worse things in hockey games and when they do TSN or the fans completely go all in on them, probably worse than basketball. Look up Don Cherry, dude says way worse shit than anybody on TNT.

Point is there's clearly composed fights where all hell doesn't break loose. Even with a bench brawl things are more controlled than NBA scrums. Look at the Malice @ the Palice. The brawl he's talking about? They finished the game :oldlol:


WHO F*CKING CARES EXACTLY HOW THEY SQUARE OFF??? None of it is a sign of moral decay and a symptom of social decline like a lot of so called Hockey fans insinuate when fight break out in BBALL games..

That's the point... People act like NBA fights (or NFL fights) are ruining the fabric of society..

F*cking Sherman cant even yell into a TV screen without everyone calling him a "thug" and a "N*gger"..

But if a hockey fight breaks out? it is an epic occurance... one for the record books.. Tough guys doing what tough guys do...

that is the difference

[ROCSteady]

No man, a hockey fight is not epic at all. Happens more often than an injury. No big deal. Standard operating procedure.

Sounds like you just hate that people stereotype black athletes when they get pissed and lose control.

Saying that long term,well balanced, knowledgable sports fans think a scrap that goes down in an NFL game or NBA game is a sign of moral decay is an extreme assessment. That's major hyperbole.

Hockey players are seen as tough guys because they generally stay in games for nasty inflictions, not just fighting. I'm talking a 8- 10 inch major laceration on the mid section from a skate blade- like a katana sliced a dude. I'm talking gettin hit in the mouth incidentally and losing half your teeth and shrugging it off to come back in the game like it's nothing. I'm talking sustaining ligament damage, fractured bones and still being worried about missing a shift....in one reg season game of 82.

Meanwhile, D-Wade hurts his shoulder one time and gets taken off on a wheelchair.

If you can't see the difference in environments and see why fighting would be more natural in one setting versus the other, then...

[NuggetsFan]

"N*gger"..


Ohhhhhhhhhhh. I get it. Kinda figured that's what this was about, won't touch on that. Kinda did a few posts ago but yeaaaah.

People call hockey players goons, punks, dirty etc. all the time when they do something stupid or take fighting to another level. However they do not get called N*ggers. Probably cause there white for the most part, I'm sure guys like E.Kane, J.Ward, PK Subban do tho, sometimes anyways :confusedshrug:

[Rasheed1]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh. I get it. Kinda figured that's what this was about, won't touch on that. Kinda did a few posts ago but yeaaaah.

People call hockey players goons, punks, dirty etc. all the time when they do something stupid or take fighting to another level. However they do not get called N*ggers. Probably cause there white for the most part, I'm sure guys like E.Kane, J.Ward, PK Subban do tho, sometimes anyways :confusedshrug:


Its not soo much about the racial aspect as it is about the phony moral and societal aspect of the double standard..

Im sure the black guys in the NHL are used to being called N*ggers and monkeys by the fans... :confusedshrug: its a part of the job at times..

but im talking about the way the fights are viewed...

I understand that hockey has controls for a fight where the NBA, MLB, and NFL do not..

But that doesn't make fights in those leagues a "moral" problem..

some fans (many of them are hockey fans) have a so called "moral" problem with fighting in other leagues, but not the NHL..

[Norcaliblunt]

Lol at this idea that EVERYBODY automatically calls basketball players thugs for fighting. Doc Rivers and Kevin Johnson started one of worst brawls ever, and are both looked up to as respectable figures within the sport and outside of it.

[Rasheed1]

No man, a hockey fight is not epic at all. Happens more often than an injury. No big deal. Standard operating procedure.

Sounds like you just hate that people stereotype black athletes when they get pissed and lose control.

Saying that long term,well balanced, knowledgable sports fans think a scrap that goes down in an NFL game or NBA game is a sign of moral decay is an extreme assessment. That's major hyperbole.

Hockey players are seen as tough guys because they generally stay in games for nasty inflictions, not just fighting. I'm talking a 8- 10 inch major laceration on the mid section from a skate blade- like a katana sliced a dude. I'm talking gettin hit in the mouth incidentally and losing half your teeth and shrugging it off to come back in the game like it's nothing. I'm talking sustaining ligament damage, fractured bones and still being worried about missing a shift....in one reg season game of 82.

Meanwhile, D-Wade hurts his shoulder one time and gets taken off on a wheelchair.

If you can't see the difference in environments and see why fighting would be more natural in one setting versus the other, then...


seeing the double standard is not a "major hyperbole" .. I know hocke fans who are also NBA fans.. They have told me how the NBA has a "thug" problem and that is why people have gone away from the NBA.. They tell me about protecting their kids from the bad influences of the "thugs" in the NBA..

I laugh at them, but they think they make make sense :oldlol:

Like I said (in case you missed that part).. I understand that hockey has a place, and controls for fighting... But that doesn't mean that there is a moral, societal difference between fighting in hockey and fighting in other sports..

it is simply a double standard

[Rasheed1]

Lol at this idea that EVERYBODY automatically calls basketball players thugs for fighting. Doc Rivers and Kevin Johnson started one of worst brawls ever, and are both looked up to as respectable figures within the sport and outside of it.


BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT... nobody said EVERYBODY calls NBA players thugs...

I said there is a double standard between hockey fighting and fighting in the other major sports

[Norcaliblunt]

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT... nobody said EVERYBODY calls NBA players thugs...

I said there is a double standard between hockey fighting and fighting in the other major sports


Then who calls them thugs then? What your honky friends? I've heard people stereotype hockey players as knucklehead goons. It goes both ways.

[ROCSteady]

Ya the motivation for this whole thread of b!tching is racial sensitivity. The idea that black athletes throwing a punch or two in the NFL/NBA are chastised as ignorant uncontrollable, primitive beings versus white guys doing it in a controlled, monitored and strategic and not being perceived as athletes with a criminal mindset. Mainly it's just an adopted slight of injustice from dudes who see race before everything. They believe the 'White mass public' turns a cheek to similar acts from other white people.

Its not about the sport. It's about the skin color that dominates the sport. Meanwhile, Richard Sherman yells at viewers all over America in a post game and people are dumbfounded why the status quo, unspectacular everyday unenlightened viewer took offense to his behavior. All the sudden, it's just another instance of race being attacked and not just ignorant thoughts and feelings towards that particular guy.

[Rasheed1]

Then who calls them thugs then? What your honky friends? I've heard people stereotype hockey players as knucklehead goons. It goes both ways.


it doesnt go both ways ....:oldlol:

you cannot be blind enough to post on a basketball board and not be aware that a portion of society label NBA players as "thugs" for their on court behavior (mostly because of the fighting and the clothes they wear)

Hockey fans call some hockey players goons.. But they don't have the vitriol that they have for an NBA player (or nfl player) who would fight during a game...

Again, look at Sherman.. He is a "thug" and a "scumbag" (and other things) simply because of his rant on sunday.. God forbid if he had actually gotten into a fight.. :oldlol:

People would be looking for charges to be brought against him...

you cant act like the idea of fighting in hockey and the idea of fighting of in the NBA are the same... They are obviously 2 totally different entities...

I know there is a move within the NHL to get rid of fighting.... but most "goons" in hockey don't even have any talent :roll:

There are no players in other sports who occupy so much space simply for their "goonery"

[ROCSteady]

seeing the double standard is not a "major hyperbole" .. I know hocke fans who are also NBA fans.. They have told me how the NBA has a "thug" problem and that is why people have gone away from the NBA.. They tell me about protecting their kids from the bad influences of the "thugs" in the NBA..

I laugh at them, but they think they make make sense :oldlol:

Like I said (in case you missed that part).. I understand that hockey has a place, and controls for fighting... But that doesn't mean that there is a moral, societal difference between fighting in hockey and fighting in other sports..

it is simply a double standard

A double standard implies that both situations are of uniform circumstances. Hockey = physical contact sport Basketball = Skilled Athletic Sport

Hockey has tons of skill just as basketball can be physical but the discretion is pretty wide between the two. In basketball, the peak is to maybe commit a hard foul, a flagrant. That's the pinnacle of sending a message. In hockey, it's throwing an illegal hit to set the tone or squaring up and beating the shit out of the other guy's face. They are not on equal ground.

As for the 'NBA fans' who cry thug, there prolly is a degree of unwanted judgment and racism on their part or just plain dismissal of what's more 'mainstream' to viewership on ESPN and stuff. I'll say this: Hardcore NHL fans have a complex because they feel very passionate about the game and feel it doesn't get the coverage it deserves on major networks. Hockey fans are smaller in numbers but are typically way more knowledgable and loyal than the average NBA or NFL fan who cheer but with varying degrees of prior support and team knowledge.

Hockey fans can be quick to be monolithic and dismiss the major 3 sports becuz they resent that it takes away from NHL coverage. I've seen hockey psychos look for any reason to downplay the awesomeness of basketball or baseball or whatever just because they are biased and want to trump up THEIR main passion. That could have a lot to do with that kind of talk. Those people aren't who I was referring to as well balanced, open minded, knowledgable long term sports fans.

[Rasheed1]

Ya the motivation for this whole thread of b!tching is racial sensitivity. The idea that black athletes throwing a punch or two in the NFL/NBA are chastised as ignorant uncontrollable, primitive beings versus white guys doing it in a controlled, monitored and strategic and not being perceived as athletes with a criminal mindset. Mainly it's just an adopted slight of injustice from dudes who see race before everything. They believe the 'White mass public' turns a cheek to similar acts from other white people.

Its not about the sport. It's about the skin color that dominates the sport. Meanwhile, Richard Sherman yells at viewers all over America in a post game and people are dumbfounded why the status quo, unspectacular everyday unenlightened viewer took offense to his behavior. All the sudden, it's just another instance of race being attacked and not just ignorant thoughts and feelings towards that particular guy.


we all live here in America and we all know (in our hearts) what is actually going on..

you are right to a large degree... "It's about the skin color that dominates the sport"


in one sport? fights are epic and the stuff of legend...

In another? when fights break out, it is a sign of thuggery and the decline of society itself

[Rasheed1]

A double standard implies that both situations are of uniform circumstances. Hockey = physical contact sport Basketball = Skilled Athletic Sport

Hockey has tons of skill just as basketball can be physical but the discretion is pretty wide between the two. In basketball, the peak is to maybe commit a hard foul, a flagrant. That's the pinnacle of sending a message. In hockey, it's throwing an illegal hit to set the tone or squaring up and beating the shit out of the other guy's face. They are not on equal ground.

As for the 'NBA fans' who cry thug, there prolly is a degree of unwanted judgment and racism on their part or just plain dismissal of what's more 'mainstream' to viewership on ESPN and stuff. I'll say this: Hardcore NHL fans have a complex because they feel very passionate about the game and feel it doesn't get the coverage it deserves on major networks. Hockey fans are smaller in numbers but are typically way more knowledgable and loyal than the average NBA or NFL fan who cheer but with varying degrees of prior support and team knowledge.

Hockey fans can be quick to be monolithic and dismiss the major 3 sports becuz they resent that it takes away from NHL coverage. I've seen hockey psychos look for any reason to downplay the awesomeness of basketball or baseball or whatever just because they are bias and want to trump up THEIR main passion. That could have a lot to do with that kind of talk. Those people aren't who I was referring to as well balanced, open minded, knowledgable long term sports fans.

I m not talking about fans who only follow hockey... I will accept that a lot of them like the fighting in the sport and they wouldn't understand the difference I am talking about.. I can understand why they believe fighting should exist in their sport and I wouldn't respect their opinion enough about the other sports to give it any thought..


Im talking about the multi sport fan who lives in Philly.. Who lives in NY, Detroit, Boston and other major cities..

I think you know what is being talked about, but whatever.....

[ROCSteady]

I feel you are being dramatic in that assertion. The fights on ice are whatever to people who are used to them and only sensationalized dramatic dumbasses will make a huge deal over a punch being thrown by a WR or CB. Even a NBA team 'fight' (more often one or two swings and some shoving) isn't seen anymore deplorable than a bench clearing brawl in the MLB, which is majorly Hispanic with both blacks, whites, couple Asians mixed in.

I rarely see any competent sports fans think society is crumbling if two lineman get into it or a dude takes exception to a hard foul. Some get pumped by it, some just say whatever. Only shitheads think it's ruining America.

Sounds like you are just very sensitive to how blacks are viewed in sports. Sherman deserved much of the scorn he got, short of being known as a N--ger. People don't enjoy having irritating voices screaming at their television after seeing a dude's team make it to the Super Bowl.

[ROCSteady]

I m not talking about fans who only follow hockey... I will accept that a lot of them like the fighting in the sport and they wouldn't understand the difference I am talking about.. I can understand why they believe fighting should exist in their sport and I wouldn't respect their opinion enough about the other sports to give it any thought..


Im talking about the multi sport fan who lives in Philly.. Who lives in NY, Detroit, Boston and other major cities..

I think you know what is being talked about, but whatever.....

Yea, you take exception to judgment of viewers who don't respect a black athlete's background or hip hop imagery and wait to degrade them when they lose their cool. I get that. It sucks and pisses me off too that so many don't follow a great thing like NBA basketball because of petty aesthetics.

However, some dudes that are pro black athletes just project body language that people think isn't professional at the pro level. Some guys also have bad attitudes and just project something that isn't accessible to the blue collar everyman.

I do not like the dismissal of great athletes based on hair, tats, scowls, etc. but some guys earn a poor reputation for very legit reasons that aren't rooted in learned racism or bigotry.

[Rasheed1]

I feel you are being dramatic in that assertion. The fights on ice are whatever to people who are used to them and only sensationalized dramatic dumbasses will make a huge deal over a punch being thrown by a WR or CB. Even a NBA team 'fight' (more often one or two swings and some shoving) isn't seen anymore deplorable than a bench clearing brawl in the MLB, which is majorly Hispanic with both blacks, whites, couple Asians mixed in.

I rarely see any competent sports fans think society is crumbling if two lineman get into it or a dude takes exception to a hard foul. Some get pumped by it, some just say whatever. Only shitheads think it's ruining America.

Sounds like you are just very sensitive to how blacks are viewed in sports. Sherman deserved much of the scorn he got, short of being known as a N--ger. People don't enjoy having irritating voices screaming at their television after seeing a dude's team make it to the Super Bowl.


I think Sherman's "rants" are ugly myself...

But I don't think they merit the attention it has gotten.. NFL is an intense league and I would expect at least that much intensity to be inside any player..

Im actually glad that there are players like Sherman to show me that it does indeed exist...

The double standard when it comes to fighting in Hockey is obvious and it doesn't take much sensitivity to see it...

like I said a few times..I can understand people who only love hockey.. I can that some of them love fighting and they don't want it taken away..

the other stuff is just a double standard when it comes to how players and the sport itself are viewed..

hell David Stern felt it was necessary to institute a dress code in the NBA to stop the "thug" talk...

Im saying the line between "thug" and normal human being is a lot different depending on which sport you watch..

you said it yourself "It's about the skin color that dominates the sport" a lot of times

[Norcaliblunt]

it doesnt go both ways ....:oldlol:

you cannot be blind enough to post on a basketball board and not be aware that a portion of society label NBA players as "thugs" for their on court behavior (mostly because of the fighting and the clothes they wear)

Hockey fans call some hockey players goons.. But they don't have the vitriol that they have for an NBA player (or nfl player) who would fight during a game...

Again, look at Sherman.. He is a "thug" and a "scumbag" (and other things) simply because of his rant on sunday.. God forbid if he had actually gotten into a fight.. :oldlol:

People would be looking for charges to be brought against him...

you cant act like the idea of fighting in hockey and the idea of fighting of in the NBA are the same... They are obviously 2 totally different entities...

I know there is a move within the NHL to get rid of fighting.... but most "goons" in hockey don't even have any talent :roll:

There are no players in other sports who occupy so much space simply for their "goonery"

If I based my world perspective off what gets said on this board or by sports writers then that would be stupid. Lol.

Are Doc Rivers and KJ looked at as thugs to the general public? What about Barkley and Shaq? Not every player who fights in the nba is considered a thug. Bottom line. In fact when was the last time fights broke out in the NBA and people started playing the thug card?

If we are basing our perspectives off of message board trolls, and dipshit sports writers paid to ruffle feathers, then you can find ignorant comments on about almost anything.

[Rasheed1]

If I based my world perspective off what gets said on this board or by sports writers then that would be stupid. Lol.

Are Doc Rivers and KJ looked at as thugs to the general public? What about Barkley and Shaq? Not every player who fights in the nba is considered a thug. Bottom line. In fact when was the last time fights broke out in the NBA and people started playing the thug card?

If we are basing our perspectives off of message board trolls, and dipshit sports writers paid to ruffle feathers, then you can find ignorant comments on almost about anything.


no.. its more of an amalgamation of people I know and media and websites like this one right here

another thing I have learned (especially regarding the NBA) is that perceptions change with time...

I can remember when Scottie Pippen was hated because he refused to go into a play that was designed for toni Kuoc.. People swore he would never live it down, but he did..

Kobe? rape charges? he lived those down.. So Im saying that opinions change and I am mostly speaking of visceral reactions than long lasting opinions of players


people love shaq and Barkley now.. they are hall of famers... But barkley was pariah at times in his career (he deserved some of it, but he lived it down)

Im just saying that society is pretty quick to make a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to fighting in some sports, but not others

[NuggetsFan]

it doesnt go both ways ....:oldlol:

It does. No matter the sport, the race, the player etc. there are insults used towards them. Just because you get your panties in a bunch over "thug" more so than a word like goon or meathead that also attacks somebody's morals and intelligence doesn't mean it only goes one way..


you cannot be blind enough to post on a basketball board and not be aware that a portion of society label NBA players as "thugs" for their on court behavior (mostly because of the fighting and the clothes they wear)

What's this have to do with fighting in sports? Alot of the shit your talking about has nothing to do with it. NBA players are called thugs because there covered in tattoo's, have off court trouble, clothes as you said, who they hang out with. Such as somebody like Carmelo showing up in Stop Snitching Stop Lying or Steven Jackson throwing up gang signs. A few idiots like J.R Smith get the entire NBA labeled thugs. It's wrong and I agree, but that has nothing to do with fighting. NHL players make less money, aren't in the media as much, haven't had the same off court problems as a Kobe, Big Ben, O.J etc.

Even than it still exists in hockey. Tyler Sequin got a really bad rap for being a punk who partied too much and was traded, he was targeted in the media too. People like you and Go Getter just don't know enough about the sport so your blind about it. He wasn't called a "thug" all tho I'm pretty sure he's actually covered in stupid tattoo's so that probably is a race thing :oldlol:


Hockey fans call some hockey players goons.. But they don't have the vitriol that they have for an NBA player (or nfl player) who would fight during a game...

I've actually never seen many fights in the NFL/NBA but I'm only 22. I can think of a few. Something like the Andre Johnson one, I personally don't care about. Look at that compared to an average hockey fight. Did Finnegan even throw a legit punch back? I love emotion in sports and I didn't care but alot of people really don't like seeing unwilling fights. Cortland was playing chippy, pushing and ripping the helmet but dude didn't actually fight back did he?

Same with the NBA. Look at that Nick Young situation recently. That's not a fight. He was surrounded by the entire team, threw a half punch and retreated. His own teammate Kendall Marshall was like ten feet back and didn't want any part of it.

I think that's a big thing. NHL players want to fight, NBA/NFL don't. I think there content with just pushing and shoving usually. When they get eachothers face they don't want to full out "drop the mitts".

Even than I don't know many people who get upset at offensive linemen pushing eachother or really anything surrounding the NFL. I've heard people say NBA players look stupid and sometimes they do during scrums. KG playing tough guy, getting on his knees and barking and never actually fighting? Most people won't like that..


Again, look at Sherman.. He is a "thug" and a "scumbag" (and other things) simply because of his rant on sunday.. God forbid if he had actually gotten into a fight.. :oldlol:

I found it entertaining, he looked completely crazy tho. White, black, yellow, NBA, NHL and I think that's obvious to anyone.


People would be looking for charges to be brought against him...

Kinda like Patrick Roy's son when he got involved with another goalie who didn't want to fight back? What about Todd Bertuzzi for that huge sucker punch on Steve Moore? Dude's still in court I believe. Still gets boo'd and hate to this day. I've actually seen people use "thug" with him before. Nasty play and got what he deserved...


you cant act like the idea of fighting in hockey and the idea of fighting of in the NBA are the same... They are obviously 2 totally different entities...

Doesn't even need to be said, only on ISH.


I know there is a move within the NHL to get rid of fighting.... but most "goons" in hockey don't even have any talent :roll:

There is. They'll probably succeed eventually, like years and years down the road because of how intertwined it is within the NHL. Ehhh yeah there are some left. Nowhere near where it use to be. You still have your enforces but it's a dying breed. True enforcers get scratched and sit in the press box when not needed. Bottom 6 guy's like Chris Neil and Jordan Tootoo can do other things besides fights.


There are no players in other sports who occupy so much space simply for their "goonery"

Not really these days. Most guys are useful and fill a 4th line checking roll. NBA players get called thugs because teams like NY sign Chris Smith for no reason other than J.R wanting them too. Fighting is apart of the game thus fighters are needed but like I said these days there's hardly a shit load of true enforcers that do nothing but fight..

[ROCSteady]

Human beings are quick to judge, very reactionary. In short, we aren't the most sophisticated creatures when we watch our sports. I agree that we beat these 'deviant' behaviors to death. The media are vultures that often enjoy the sensationalism or character assassination of an intriguing or colorful figure.

The surprising thing about today and yesterday is that very few talking heads on the networks were laying into Sherman. They treated him very decent compared to how the general public now see him. I give them kudos for that despite the oversaturation.

[Norcaliblunt]

no.. its more of an amalgamation of people I know and media and websites like this one right here

another thing I have learned (especially regarding the NBA) is that perceptions change with time...

I can remember when Scottie Pippen was hated because he refused to go into a play that was designed for toni Kuoc.. People swore he would never live it down, but he did..

Kobe? rape charges? he lived those down.. So Im saying that opinions change and I am mostly speaking of visceral reactions than long lasting opinions of players


people love shaq and Barkley now.. they are hall of famers... But barkley was pariah at times in his career (he deserved some of it, but he lived it down)

Im just saying that society is pretty quick to make a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to fighting in some sports, but not others


Hockey is essentially less popular, with less media coverage than basketball, football, and baseball. Hockey has a long history of fights which are legal within the rules of the sport so people are desensitized, and even then there are people who still disapprove of it. Baseball allows dugout clearing brawls to keep taking place for some reason, so Hockey isn't the only sport with their own weird code when it comes to fighting. People can be ignorant, yes. Also double standards can exist especially when comparing apples to oranges, so suck it up put on your big boy pants and get used to it.

[ROCSteady]

hell David Stern felt it was necessary to institute a dress code in the NBA to stop the "thug" talk...

Im saying the line between "thug" and normal human being is a lot different depending on which sport you watch..

you said it yourself "It's about the skin color that dominates the sport" a lot of times

I don't see why the dress code was so oppressive to the players. These dudes work in a multimillion dollar industry. Image is ALWAYS stressed in big business where commerce is large. Sure it's a basketball game but they are still employees of multi million dollar corporations. What's wrong with being required to dress business-casual when you are on the clock representing your organization? Don't see it as persecution to individual identity.

[Rasheed1]

People can be ignorant, yes. Also double standards can exist especially when comparing apples to oranges, so suck it up put on your big boy pants and get used to it.

you are right.. people need to put their "big boy pants" on.. it shouldn't bug people for me to point out the double standard..

it is obvious..we should be able to admit it and move on

[tpols]

Fighting in sports is thuggery no matter if it be NBA/MLB/NHL/Soccer.
Nah.. as has been explained a million times, there is an ettiquette to hockey fighting based on mutual agreement. Basketball is often one guy lashing out at another and then everything goes to shit and its a gang fight essentially. Now that is thuggery.. uncontrolled violence that serves no purpose.

[Norcaliblunt]

you are right.. people need to put their "big boy pants" on.. it shouldn't bug people for me to point out the double standard..

it is obvious..we should be able to admit it and move on

:cheers:

I just don't think it is some big racial/social issue that some of you are trying to make it out to be. It's simply a different sport so a different animal. Ignorant assertions can be made about anything, and they can go either way. It just so happens that in this example basketball, and football are more heavily covered by the media so negative comments are more likely to be voiced and heard.

I wanna know why in golf, fans have to be quiet when players are putting and driving, but in basketball people can scream, blow horns, and wave hands when players are shooting a free throw? I smell double standard.

[tomtucker]

i don

[tomtucker]

:cheers:



I wanna know why in golf, fans have to be quiet when players are putting and driving, but in basketball people can scream, blow horns, and wave hands when players are shooting a free throw? I smell double standard.

that

[Styles p]

[QUOTE=tomtucker]i don

[gigantes]

http://img.izismile.com/img/img8/20150107/1000/daily_gifdump_762_21.gif

[Akrazotile]

The answer is that they're on skates. The potential for serious damage (bertuzzi cheap shots notwithstanding) is much, much less than two people squaring off on flat footing.

That's all it is. Has nothing to do with race. If white people had a problem with watching blacks fight, there'd be no floyd mayweather or jon jones. The issue is untrained, unequipped guys just throwing haymakers on a basketball court has potential to cause the kind of harm people don't want their kids to see, i.e. a Rudy T moment. On skates, it's mostly just cuts and bruises.

[ROCSteady]

Y'all need not discuss things you have no idea about.

Of course a basketball forum wouldn't think highly of hockey, being that their seasons overlap and have the same format (except for the stupid 2-3-2 format the NBA had for the Finals)

[Jailblazers7]

I think it's crazy that baseball brawls are pretty much excepted. Those get pretty wild and it's the whole ****ing team that storms the field.

[ROCSteady]

2-3-2 format has been changed back to 2-2-1-1-1

That's why I said HAD

About time they changed. NBA fixed the dumb sh!t for the Gold Ball :cheers:



Hockey is the greatest sport in existence, granted its accesible,understood and people aren't turned off by all required materials and the general homogenous nature (skin color, not nationality) of its participants.

[Akrazotile]

I think it's crazy that baseball brawls are pretty much excepted. Those get pretty wild and it's the whole ****ing team that storms the field.


Theyre not really accepted, not by the league anyhow. Dudes get suspended for participating in brawls. At least Im pretty sure they do.

[oarabbus]

Maybe if NBA players didn't have a rep for throwing bitch ass sucker punches in fights they wouldn't get hated on so much.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/jsm33187/Basketball/melo_punch.gif

Or maybe, just maybe, its as simple as 6'8 dudes pack such a heavier punch than the average 5'10 to 6'1 sized guys in other sports that its wise to not allow them to potentially KO a fool and wreck his career.

Its not like you can punch a guy as hard on skates like you can on an NBA court. Even baseball fights tend to end in a tackle in the dirt more than anything.

Hell, I once saw Shaq take a swing at Brad Miller after he had turned his head and started walking the other way. Had Shaq connected it probably would have killed Miller.


This... at the end of the day you don't have multiple guys in play who are pushing 6'8", 6'10", 7' weighing 250+ lbs... lot different than your average hockey player who is ~6', or even NFL who is ~6'3" on average.

Put Gortat, Pekovic, Nene, Valanciunas, Cousins, and Dwight in the Hockey rink or on a baseball field and you wouldn't be allowed to fight there either...

[hateraid]

This... at the end of the day you don't have multiple guys in play who are pushing 6'8", 6'10", 7' weighing 250+ lbs... lot different than your average hockey player who is ~6', or even NFL who is ~6'3" on average.

Put Gortat, Pekovic, Nene, Valanciunas, Cousins, and Dwight in the Hockey rink or on a baseball field and you wouldn't be allowed to fight there either...

Your kidding right?
Have you heard of John Scott? Zdeno Chara? Dustin Byfuglien? Brian McGratten? All those guys would murder any of the guys mentioned above. And there are a lot more

[Lebron23]

Wayne Gretzy was an amazing player.

[Velocirap31]

Wayne Gretzy was an amazing player.

Probably the number one untouchable guy. I've heard stories about players hitting him hard and then getting destroyed moments later by an Oilers/Kings enforcer. I'm going to go watch some youtube of him now. :bowdown:

[Jailblazers7]

Theyre not really accepted, not by the league anyhow. Dudes get suspended for participating in brawls. At least Im pretty sure they do.

Yeah, I think suspensions are handed out but I think they are basically slaps on the wrist. The Pirates had a pretty intense fight with the Brewers this season and the longest suspension was 5 games with a couple others only getting 1 or 2. Meanwhile everyone else who storms the field is just told to go sit back down. It is still viewed largely as a part of the history of the sport.

[KyrieTheFuture]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/4703619/andre-johnson-fight-gif-o.gif

Football would be way better if we had this every game

[oarabbus]

Your kidding right?
Have you heard of John Scott? Zdeno Chara? Dustin Byfuglien? Brian McGratten? All those guys would murder any of the guys mentioned above. And there are a lot more

Those guys are basically midgets compared to the NBA players I listed. Nene would tear them into small pieces. Or James Johnson.

[Styles p]

Those guys are basically midgets compared to the NBA players I listed. Nene would tear them into small pieces. Or James Johnson.
... yeah ok :roll: :roll: :oldlol:

[Heavincent]

Those guys are basically midgets compared to the NBA players I listed. Nene would tear them into small pieces. Or James Johnson.

Chara would destroy any NBA player.

[GimmeThat]

they couldn't stop the game, so they stopped the players.

[hateraid]

Those guys are basically midgets compared to the NBA players I listed. Nene would tear them into small pieces. Or James Johnson.

John Scott is 6'7 245 and pummels any of those guys you mentioned, and he's not the top enforcer in the league. Zdeno is 6'8. Byfuglien is 6'4 260. McGratten who is probably the toughest guy in the NHL is 6'4 235 and would crumple Nene. Not to mention a couple of these guys are skilled skaters who can fore check like a James Harrison tackle.
so your example is way off based

[ROCSteady]

Reading over this thread again...Good discussion.


If y'all have any questions or murky perceptions of the NHL or hockey in general, feel free to ask.

I'll drop more knowledge about my first love (outside my moms)

[ROCSteady]

Oh and it's pretty much inarguable that...



Gretzky > Jordan in relation to their respective sports

[oarabbus]

John Scott is 6'7 245 and pummels any of those guys you mentioned, and he's not the top enforcer in the league. Zdeno is 6'8. Byfuglien is 6'4 260. McGratten who is probably the toughest guy in the NHL is 6'4 235 and would crumple Nene. Not to mention a couple of these guys are skilled skaters who can fore check like a James Harrison tackle.
so your example is way off based

James Johnson 6'9" 250lbs trained in MMA and would destroy all those guys without breaking a sweat.

Panda's friend AKA Metta World Peace aka Ron Artest too

[ROCSteady]

Niccas aren't doing that on ice skates.

[ROCSteady]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/410/040/f6e.png

[That_Admiral]

https://adventuresinpucking.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/bobby-orr-bruins-photo-fw.jpg

[dude77]

james johnson is an exception .. not the norm in the nba .. how many guys have black belts and kickboxing experience in the nba .. nba players = fake tough guys ..

and lol@bringing up that bitch artest ..

that fggt backed off like a bitch when wallace shoved him but he jumped into the stands when a tiny fan threw some liquid on him :lol

[ROCSteady]

http://www.peoples.ru/sport/hockey/peter_bondra/bondra_2.jpg

http://www.nhlsnipers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/jaromir-jagr68.jpg

http://blogimages.thescore.com/nhl/files/2013/04/bure3.jpg

http://vancouverisawesome.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/joe-sakic.jpg

[hateraid]

James Johnson 6'9" 250lbs trained in MMA and would destroy all those guys without breaking a sweat.

Panda's friend AKA Metta World Peace aka Ron Artest too
That's 1 individual compared to a culture built to fight. Your sample size doesn't make your case any better. Also there are a ton of brutes in the NHL who train MMA who are battle tested in the field I bet McGratten destroys Johnson on the ice and the streets