Most Championships as the Best Player on their Team

[T_L_P]

What is the list? Bill Russell is obviously number 1, but were there any years in which he was not the best player on his team (when they won a championship, of course)?

From what I can tell, this is the list:

1. Bill Russell (x)
2. Michael Jordan (6)
3. George Mikan (5)
4. Tim Duncan (4)

Then there are some debatable ones (Magic, mainly).

What is the rest of the list?

[waseem780]

Shaq 3
Kobe 2
Wade 1

[K Xerxes]

Honestly don't know about Russell, but I've heard people say he was the best in at least 8/11. Don't hold me to that, I don't know anywhere near enough about his championship runs as others.

Jordan - 6/6
Duncan - 4/4
Shaq - 3/4
Magic - 3/5 (maybe 4)
Kareem - 3/6 (maybe 2)
Bird - 3/3
Kobe - 2/5
Wilt - 2/2
Hakeem - 2/2
LeBron - 2/2

From the consensus top 11.

[guy]

Basing "best player" on who ranked highest on their team in regular season MVP voting.

Russell - 10
Jordan - 6
Mikan - 5
Magic - 4
Duncan - 4
Bird - 3
Shaq - 3
Cowens - 2
Kareem - 2
Hakeem - 2
Kobe - 2
Lebron - 2

[Marchesk]

Wouldn't Hondo be in there twice?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Basing "best player" on who ranked highest on their team in regular season MVP voting.

Russell - 10
Mikan - 7
Jordan - 6
Magic - 4
Duncan - 4
Erving - 3
Bird - 3
Shaq - 3
Cowens - 2
Kareem - 2
Barry - 2
Hakeem - 2
Kobe - 2
Lebron - 2
NBL and ABA added

[Fudge]

Wade and Kobe have 2 apiece.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Russell should be like 8 or so. At the very beginning when he entered the NBA, it was Cousy and in his last year, in 1969, it was Hondo.

Jordan - 6
Duncan - 4
Shaq - 3
Kareem - 3
Magic - 3
Bird - 3
Hakeem - 2
Kobe - 2
LeBron - 2
Wilt - 2 or 1 (either him or Jerry in 1972)

(posting the top11 all-time players)

[Odinn]

Magic - 3/5 (maybe 4)
Kareem - 3/6 (maybe 2)
This is kinda misleading.

KAJ was still better than Magic in 1982. The certain '3' belongs to KAJ and the same goes for 'maybe 4'. Because Kareem was still their offensive and defensive leader in 1985. I know, thread title says the best player and Magic has a stronger case to be the better player in 1985. But his 'the best player on a championship team' criteria is directly related to roles actually. It's used to eliminate those FMVP arguments (such as Parker winning over Duncan in 2007, Maxwell winning over Bird in 1981, Worthy winning over Magic in 1988), but if you look closely it's more than being the best one.

[Trollsmasher]

Pau - 1
Kobe - 1

[Deuce Bigalow]

Pau - 0-16
Kobe - 2
:oldlol:

[miller-time]

Was Larry the best on his team for the first championship? He only has 2 FMVPs.

[SHAQisGOAT]

This is kinda misleading.

KAJ was still better than Magic in 1982. The certain '3' belongs to KAJ and the same goes for 'maybe 4'. Because Kareem was still their offensive and defensive leader in 1985. I know, thread title says the best player and Magic has a stronger case to be the better player in 1985. But his 'the best player on a championship team' criteria is directly related to roles actually. It's used to eliminate those FMVP arguments (such as Parker winning over Duncan in 2007, Maxwell winning over Bird in 1981, Worthy winning over Magic in 1988), but if you look closely it's more than being the best one.

:applause:

[NumberSix]

Tony Parker was the best player on the 2007 team and has been since.

[I<3NBA]

Kobe - 0

[Black and White]

Tony Parker was the best player on the 2007 team and has been since.

This, Parker has been the main reason for their success

[NumberSix]

Jordan. 6
Kareem. 4
Shaq. 3
Duncan. 3
Bird. 3

[SHAQisGOAT]

Was Larry the best on his team for the first championship? He only has 2 FMVPs.

So, Jo Jo White was a better player than Cowens in 1976, Unseld was a better player than Hayes in 1978, Magic was a better player than Kareem in 1980, Worthy was a better player than Magic in 1988, Parker was a better player than Duncan in 2007...? :confusedshrug: :rolleyes: :facepalm

Core of the team was pretty much the same in 1979 (without Bird), why did they have the 2nd worst record? Why didn't Max lead them to better record? Took a rookie to lead them to the best record and the ECF, then the title in his 2nd year...
Why was Cornbread never in the run for MVP or making all-nba teams?

In fact, imo, not taking anything away from Maxwell because he was really good and clutch, but that FMVP belonged to Bird. He put up 15/15/7 (only one to do this in the Finals, in NBA history) with some really good overall D, drawing most attention (because he had just murdered the MVP in the "real" Finals, the ECF), making everyone, especially Max, get easy buckets because of it and his great playmaking, rebounding almost as good as prime Moses. Yea he struggled with his shot and scoring while Cedric was very consistent but it's not like he was far from Maxwell in that department, while he was considerable better in everything else and had a great and clutch, closing game6.

[NumberSix]

So, Jo Jo White was a better player than Cowens in 1976, Unseld was a better player than Hayes in 1978, Magic was a better player than Kareem in 1980, Worthy was a better player than Magic in 1988, Parker was a better player than Duncan in 2007...? :confusedshrug: :rolleyes: :facepalm

Core of the team was pretty much the same in 1979 (without Bird), why did they have the 2nd worst record? Why didn't Max lead them to better record? Took a rookie to lead them to the best record and the ECF, then the title in his 2nd year...
Why was Cornbread never in the run for MVP or making all-nba teams?

In fact, imo, not taking anything away from Maxwell because he was really good and clutch, but that FMVP belonged to Bird. He put up 15/15/7 (only one to do this in the Finals, in NBA history) with some really good overall D, drawing most attention (because he had just murdered the MVP in the "real" Finals, the ECF), making everyone, especially Max, get easy buckets because of it and his great playmaking, rebounding almost as good as prime Moses. Yea he struggled with his shot and scoring while Cedric was very consistent but it's not like he was far from Maxwell in that department, while he was considerable better in everything else and had a great and clutch, closing game6.
Everything being bolded has the same effect as nothing being bolded.

[ssginc]

Russell should be like 8 or so. At the very beginning when he entered the NBA, it was Cousy and in his last year, in 1969, it was Hondo.


You could argue Hondo was Boston's best player during their 68 and 69 title runs. Also, just FWIW, during Russ' rookie year his teammates (Cousy and Heinsohn) won MVP and ROY respectively (so it makes you wonder just exactly how much did Bill's teammates help him become the player he became, which I bring up because popular opinion says Russ "made" his teammates)?

That aside, I would say Russ assumed the distinction of Boston's undisputed best player from 60 through 66, which would give him 7.

[ssginc]

In fact, imo, not taking anything away from Maxwell because he was really good and clutch, but that FMVP belonged to Bird. He put up 15/15/7 (only one to do this in the Finals, in NBA history) with some really good overall D, drawing most attention (because he had just murdered the MVP in the "real" Finals, the ECF), making everyone, especially Max, get easy buckets because of it and his great playmaking, rebounding almost as good as prime Moses. Yea he struggled with his shot and scoring while Cedric was very consistent but it's not like he was far from Maxwell in that department, while he was considerable better in everything else and had a great and clutch, closing game6.


Agreed. No question Bird should have won FMVP in 81.

[DonDadda59]

Tony Parker was the best player on the 2007 team and has been since.

No.

[houston]

This, Parker has been the main reason for their success


Not true Duncan is the main reason for their success. He clearly the best player for the Spurs espec during their finals run.

[LAZERUSS]

You could argue Hondo was Boston's best player during their 68 and 69 title runs. Also, just FWIW, during Russ' rookie year his teammates (Cousy and Heinsohn) won MVP and ROY respectively (so it makes you wonder just exactly how much did Bill's teammates help him become the player he became, which I bring up because popular opinion says Russ "made" his teammates)?

That aside, I would say Russ assumed the distinction of Boston's undisputed best player from 60 through 66, which would give him 7.

Russell missed 24 games in his rookie season. In the 48 that he played, the Celtics went 28-20 (.583.) In the 24 he missed, they went 16-8 (.667.)

And in the '58 Finals, Russell injured his ankle in the third quarter of game three, with the series tied 1-1. Boston lost that game by three points, but they outscored St. Louis in the 4th quarter, without Russell, by five points.

Russell then missed all of game four, which Boston won easily without him, 109-98. And he missed all of game five, which Boston lost by two points.

He returned for about 20 minutes in the clinching game six loss, and missed the second half,...a half in which Boston outscored the Hawks by four points, in a one point loss.

[bukowski81]

Tony Parker was the best player on the 2007 team and has been since.

No, even the best version of Parker isnt better than 07 Duncan

[ssginc]

Russell missed 24 games in his rookie season. In the 48 that he played, the Celtics went 28-20 (.583.) In the 24 he missed, they went 16-8 (.667.)

And in the '58 Finals, Russell injured his ankle in the third quarter of game three, with the series tied 1-1. Boston lost that game by three points, but they outscored St. Louis in the 4th quarter, without Russell, by five points.

Russell then missed all of game four, which Boston won easily without him, 109-98. And he missed all of game five, which Boston lost by two points.

He returned for about 20 minutes in the clinching game six loss, and missed the second half,...a half in which Boston outscored the Hawks by four points, in a one point loss.


I don't question Russell's value as much as I think his teammates often times take too far of a back seat. (FTR I have him #3 all-time, and IMO one of only 3 players for whom a legit argument for GOAT can be made - along with MJ and Jabbar.)

Still, Cousy was a legit HOFER long before Russ entered the league; Hondo went on to win multiple championships after Russ retired, and in my book is Top 15 all time; Bailey Howell averaged 21 / 11 / 48% for 7 years before teaming with Russ. Point is there was a TON of "legit" HOF talent on that 60's Dynasty, yet all too often we're told they wouldn't have been squat without Russ. Suffice to say I don't buy the notion. In fact, I think joining a team that didn't need Offense / Scoring helped Russ immensely.

What might have become of him if he was drafted by the Pistons or Royals, for example, instead of the team that ranked #1 or #2 in Scoring for 5-6 years before Russ arrived.

Just sayin'

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan - 6/6
Duncan - 4/4
Bird - 3/3
Wilt - 2/2
Hakeem - 2/2
LeBron - 2/2
Shaq - 3/4
Magic - 3/5
Kobe - 2/5 (case can be made for 2001 though)
Kareem - 3/6
Wade - 1/3
Dirk - 1/1

[ssginc]

Jordan - 6/6
Duncan - 4/4
Bird - 3/3
Wilt - 2/2
Hakeem - 2/2
LeBron - 2/2
Shaq - 3/4
Magic - 3/5
Kobe - 2/5 (case can be made for 2001 though)
Kareem - 3/6
Wade - 1/3
Dirk - 1/1


While 2010 could have gone to Gasol, who was certainly just as valuable to the success of the Lakers as was Kobe, and arguably even more so in the Finals.

[Deuce Bigalow]

While 2010 could have gone to Gasol, who was certainly just as valuable to the success of the Lakers (that year) as was Kobe, arguably even more so in the Finals.
Yeah? Where are his 33/7/7 WCF and 35/9/4 WCSF type performances then? Has he even came close to leading the Lakers in scoring for just one series?

[ssginc]

Yeah? Where are his 33/7/7 WCF and 35/9/4 WCSF type performances then? Has he even came close to leading the Lakers in scoring for just one series?

Once Shaq left Kobe was getting bounced in the first round for years...then WHAM, the Lakers become an instant powerhouse the very second Pau arrives.

Coincidence?

I think not.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Once Shaq left Kobe was getting bounced in the first round for years...then WHAM, the Lakers become an instant powerhouse the very second Pau arrives.

Coincidence?

I think not.
This somehow proves that Gasol was close to being as good as Kobe?

MJ loses in the first round 3 times in a row and has a sub .500 record 3 times, then Pippen comes and they win 50 games and get out of the first round then a couple years later when Pippen gets better the Bulls 3peat. Coincidence?

[T_L_P]

Tony Parker was the best player on the 2007 team and has been since.

Nope, he's been the best player during certain years after 2007, but he has absolutely no case for '07.

Even if you think he performed better in the Finals (which he didn't anyway), all you need to do is look at their statlines and see the clear difference:

Parker in 2007 Playoffs: 20.8 PPG / 3.4 RPG / 5.8 APG / 1.1 SPG
Duncan in 2007 Playoffs: 22.2 PPG / 11.5 RPG / 3.3 APG / 3.1 BPG

And that was Duncan playing less minutes, and anchoring the defense. Best player :facepalm

Swap Parker with Nando de Colo and the Spurs still have a chance to win. Swap Duncan with Matt Bonner and we have no chance.

[CavaliersFTW]

Russell should be like 8 or so. At the very beginning when he entered the NBA, it was Cousy and in his last year, in 1969, it was Hondo.

Jordan - 6
Duncan - 4
Shaq - 3
Kareem - 3
Magic - 3
Bird - 3
Hakeem - 2
Kobe - 2
LeBron - 2
Wilt - 2 or 1 (either him or Jerry in 1972)

(posting the top11 all-time players)
Cousy was not better than Russell at any point when they were on the team together. Russell was the best player on his team no less than 10 out of his 11 titles.

[BoutPractice]

Interesting. Fans obviously value championships as the "alpha" a lot... yet Duncan consistently ranks at the lower end of the top 10 for a lot of them (some go as far as to say KG is just a good) even though if you present the criterion they seem to value most in an objective list like this one, Duncan actually comes close to the very top. I wonder whether in time this inconsistency will change?

[ArbitraryWater]

Cousy was not better than Russell at any point when they were on the team together. Russell was the best player on his team no less than 10 out of his 11 titles.

:roll:

What crap. It's a known fact Cousy was > Russell until the late 50's.. watch the game replays, nobody talks about russell, they all talk about cousy winning another, cousy retiring, cousy this cousy that.