How did the 2004 Pistons win the chamion

[rlsmooth775]

A team with no superstar player these guys wouldn't have even been in a all star game 11 years before when the NBA was at it's best

[sportjames23]

http://www.racialicious.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/mjpopcornbitchplsjpg.gif

[Mr Exlax]

They all had defined roles

[JUDGE WITNESS]

bone shattering defense

[Legends66NBA7]

Ben Wallace was an all-star in 2004.

[SCdac]

this is what's beautiful about basketball, imo. Teamwork, elite defense, offensive cohesiveness, and great coaching can get you far. They may not have had a "superstar" but they had all the pieces, a scorer (rip), playmaker (billups), bruiser (big ben), and so on. Got to love the Larry Brown-era Pistons. One of my favorite teams.

[cos88]

they played 6 vs 4 :mad:

kobe bryant has 6 rings the same as jordan :bowdown:

[DMV2]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=DET&is_playoffs=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_G=&pos_is_GF=&pos_is_F=&pos_is_FG=&pos_is_FC=&pos_is_C=&pos_is_CF=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

BTW, Game 2 win for LA was surged by Luke Walton of all people. His stats won't show it but if anybody watched that series, it was Luke in Game 2 that ushered the comeback.

Detroit should have swept them.

[Dr Hawk]

Great team perfectly assembled vs the team with injuries and Kobe and Shaq trying to stab each other.

At the end of the day, Shaq had to escape with the tail between his legs. You don't mess with the Mamba.

[Smook A.]

They had great defense and they had 4 all-stars on their roster

[ZMonkey11]

this is what's beautiful about basketball, imo. Teamwork, elite defense, offensive cohesiveness, and great coaching can get you far. They may not have had a "superstar" but they had all the pieces, a scorer (rip), playmaker (billups), bruiser (big ben), and so on. Got to love the Larry Brown-era Pistons. One of my favorite teams.

I don't know if I would call it an era. 2 years and he took the reigns of a very good team.

[ZMonkey11]

They had great defense and they had 4 all-stars on their roster

At that point, they had one All-Star. They didn't have 4 All-Stars until Flip Saunders was coaching.

[DMV2]

I don't know if I would call it an era. 2 years and he took the reigns of a very good team.
Yeah, that's why I was so happy when Carlisle got his championship with Dallas. He was great in Detroit, Indy and now in Dallas. Underrated coach.

[Fab17]

Darko was the main reason :lol . The first player of a loaded draft class to win the ring. :oldlol:

[IncarceratedBob]

Shaq quit

[SpecialQue]

The Pistons were no joke. I mean, not only did they end the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, but they also took the Spurs to 7 games the next season. They were in the conference finals every year from 2003-2008. It wasn't some fluke that they won. They were a fantastically constructed team.

[SCdac]

This team also made it to Game 7 of the '05 NBA Finals, too. That Game 7 was tied going into the 4th quarter.... In other words, they were nearly 2 time champs.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kobe put them over the edge

[mr.big35]

I dont like people underrate the 2004 Pistons. They come up with all these excuses for the lakers and not giving any credit to the Pistons.

[houston]

defense and pistons guards outplaying Lakers hall of fame backcourt

[mr.big35]

2004 Pistons would beat 2008 Celtics

[Stringer Bell]

They simply were a better team.

The Lakers had the two best individual players in the series, but Detroit was deeper and worked as a unit better.

[SilkkTheShocker]

2004 Pistons would beat 2008 Celtics

Probably.

Look who the 08 Celtics beat on the way to their title run:

-Sub .500 Hawks
-Cavs team with Delonte West as 2nd best player
-Solid Pistons team
-Lakers without Bynum and hurt Ariza.

I always lmao when people try to act like they were some world beater title team.

[T_L_P]

They held Kobe, then arguably their "guy," to 22.6 points .381 FG%.

And he was playing 46 minutes a game.

[HOoopCityJones]

They held Kobe, then arguably their "guy," to 22.6 points .381 FG%.

And he was playing 46 minutes a game.

Who else did they have to worry about? be honest here, Gary Payton couldn't figure out the triangle and was old, Malone was old playing on a bum ankle until he was just out and Shaq was out of shape all year.

All they had to defend was Kobe wit double teams and they had it.

[DMAVS41]

Great defense and under-rated playmaking from some of the guys. And by great defense I mean historic defense.

Also, Kobe didn't play like a star in the finals. If he had played like Manu did in the 05 finals...Lakers might have won.

[DMAVS41]

Who else did they have to worry about? be honest here, Gary Payton couldn't figure out the triangle and was old, Malone was old playing on a bum ankle until he was just out and Shaq was out of shape all year.

All they had to defend was Kobe wit double teams and they had it.

LOL...I'd have to watch the game tape, but if they did double Kobe a lot...why the **** did he take so many shots?

If they actually did double Kobe...he never should have shot 30 more times than Shaq in 5 games...

[Lebron23]

They held Kobe, then arguably their "guy," to 22.6 points .381 FG%.

And he was playing 46 minutes a game.


Kobe choked in that series. he had poor shot selection, and RIP hamilton out played him in their head to head matchup.

[Rake2204]

All they had to defend was Kobe wit double teams and they had it.I actually think one Detroit's keys to victory was the fact that they didn't go out of their way to double team either of L.A.'s stars. We had a thread here about this about a week ago. The Lakers' tendency that series was to pound the ball inside to Shaq at the start of each contest (leading to a stream of close range finishes and dunks) then slowly work away from O'Neal as the game wore on.

Detroit seemed content with that approach. They took their lumps from O'Neal for the first quarter or so, then let Kobe Bryant iso himself into oblivion. Surely, Detroit's defense was ready to help on any drive, hedge on any screen, and trap in corners (on the baseline and half court) but I don't recall seeing a lot of outright doubles on Kobe or Shaq.

Here's Bryant's Game 1 shot-by-shot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tDpobypzSo

[Magic 32]

I actually think one Detroit's keys to victory was the fact that they didn't go out of their way to double team either of L.A.'s stars. We had a thread here about this about a week ago. The Lakers' tendency that series was to pound the ball inside to Shaq at the start of each contest (leading to a stream close range finishes and dunks) then slowly work away from O'Neal as the game wore on.

Detroit seemed content with that approach. They took their lumps from O'Neal for the first quarter or so, then let Kobe Bryant iso himself into oblivion. Surely, Detroit's defense was ready to help on any drive, hedge on any screen, and trap in corners (on the baseline and half court) but I don't recall seeing a lot of outright doubles on Kobe or Shaq.

Here's Bryant's Game 1 shot-by-shot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tDpobypzSo

Kobe played a near perfect game 2....and they barely won.

[Bigsmoke]

They won by winning 16 games in the playoffs

[T_L_P]

Who else did they have to worry about? be honest here, Gary Payton couldn't figure out the triangle and was old, Malone was old playing on a bum ankle until he was just out and Shaq was out of shape all year.

All they had to defend was Kobe wit double teams and they had it.

Kobe just flat out sucked that series. Perhaps he was the guy who the Pistons worried about most, but at the end of the day, Shaq averaged 26 points in the Finals, so they had to worry about him too.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe just flat out sucked that series. Perhaps he was the guy who the Pistons worried about most, but at the end of the day, Shaq averaged 26 points in the Finals, so they had to worry about him too.


Empty stats bro.

Ben Wallace was shutting that boy down.

I watched that entire series cringing.

Now I ain't saying Kobe didn't try to play hero ball, but he was all they had that year by the time finals came around.

And don't knock the great Job Tyshawn Prince did defensively , it was great defense by the entire team.

[Lebron23]

Shaq was the best player in that series, but Kobe wanted to win his first Finals MVP. and he costs his team an NBA championship just like Lebron in 2011 and Manu in 2013.. Great defense by the Pistons, but Shaq still averaged 27 ppg on 63 FG% against them.

[ArbitraryWater]

Ohh the defense :bowdown:

COMPLETELY shut down everybody outside of Shaq, they had a gameplan of letting Shaq/Kobe get theirs, while the rest is locked up. Luckily, in addition, Kobe laid a huge egg, which sealed the deal. Otherwise g1&g4 were kind of winnable.

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe just flat out sucked that series. Perhaps he was the guy who the Pistons worried about most, but at the end of the day, Shaq averaged 26 points in the Finals, so they had to worry about him too.

Huh? Did you watch that series??

Kobe received single coverage and was locked the **** down by Tayshaune Prince and Rip Hamilton

[HurricaneKid]

The Lakers had the two best individual players in the series, but Detroit was deeper and worked as a unit better.

Kobe wasn't one of the best 10 players on the floor in this series. Maybe 15.

If he had sprained his ankle on the opening tip of G1 LAL would have been better off. I really don't pile on Kobe for much but the 04 series was far worse in my estimation than LeBron's 11 series. LeBron backed down to play a versatile supporting role, which is embarrassing for the best player on earth. Kobe literally said with his play that he didn't care if they won if he wasn't going to be the FMVP. Shaq shot 63% for the series and as good as Wallace was he simply couldn't defend prime Shaq. Time and time again Kobe shook off Shaq to throw up a contested 24 footer. He shot .381//174 and took 39 more FGA. Just look at some of the box scores. G4 Lakers looking to tie the series and Shaq goes 36/20 on >76% from the field. Rather than feed the beast, Kobe shoots 32% and takes 25 FGA (4 more than Shaq). I don't think there has ever more selfish basketball played. Ever.

[riseagainst]

yes, OP. We all know Kobe chucked that series. Is this the answer you are looking for? Are you happy now?

[Crafty]

Defense.
Also, helped a lot the fact that Kobe had only one good game.

Game 1 was 10 of 27 (37%) - L
Game 2 was 14 of 27 (52%) - W
Game 3 was 4 of 13 (30%) - L
Game 4 was 8 of 24 (32%) - L
Game 5 was 7 of 21 (33%) - L

[HylianNightmare]

that team bball

[Rake2204]

Empty stats bro.

Ben Wallace was shutting that boy down.

I watched that entire series cringing.

Now I ain't saying Kobe didn't try to play hero ball, but he was all they had that year by the time finals came around.Hmm, I watch that series on tape a time or two each year (Detroit Pistons fan here, reliving the glory days). "Ben Wallace is shutting down Shaq" was never a sentence that really came to mind. Ben's one of my all-time favorites, but Shaq more or less had his way with him whenever he received the ball in the post.

Now, as I mentioned in the other thread about this series from a week ago, for some reason the Lakers moved away from O'Neal as the game progressed forward. Some say it's because O'Neal wore himself out early. Some say Kobe Bryant was trying to get his. Some say it was just poor game planning. Either way, I feel the only thing that really stopped O'Neal from averaging 40 a night in the Finals that year was his lack of post touches after the first quarter. It was like the Pistons were banking on the Lakers getting bored of dumping it inside.

[Lebron23]

[QUOTE=Rake2204]Hmm, I watch that series on tape a time or two each year (Detroit Pistons fan here, reliving the glory days). "Ben Wallace is shutting down Shaq" was never a sentence that really came to mind. Ben's one of my all-time favorites, but Shaq more or less had his way with him whenever he received the ball in the post.

Now, as I mentioned in the other thread about this series from a week ago, for some reason the Lakers moved away from O'Neal as the game progressed forward. Some say it's because O'Neal wore himself out early. Some say Kobe Bryant was trying to get his. Some say it was just poor game planning. Either way, I feel the only thing that really stopped O'Neal from averaging 40 a night in the Finals that year was his lack of post touches after the first quarter. It was like the Pistons were banking on the Lakers getting bored of dumping it inside.[QUOTE]


I love reading your posts. You are always been an objective basketball game.

[HOoopCityJones]

Hmm, I watch that series on tape a time or two each year (Detroit Pistons fan here, reliving the glory days). "Ben Wallace is shutting down Shaq" was never a sentence that really came to mind. Ben's one of my all-time favorites, but Shaq more or less had his way with him whenever he received the ball in the post.

Now, as I mentioned in the other thread about this series from a week ago, for some reason the Lakers moved away from O'Neal as the game progressed forward. Some say it's because O'Neal wore himself out early. Some say Kobe Bryant was trying to get his. Some say it was just poor game planning. Either way, I feel the only thing that really stopped O'Neal from averaging 40 a night in the Finals that year was his lack of post touches after the first quarter. It was like the Pistons were banking on the Lakers getting bored of dumping it inside.


Because he was out of shape.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Kobetards spreading their propaganda in this thread to prop up Kobe again. Yeah, Shaq who scored 27 ppg on 63% had empty stats. I'm sure Kobe's 23 ppg on 38% had way more impact :rolleyes:

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobetards spreading their propaganda in this thread to prop up Kobe again. Yeah, Shaq who scored 27 ppg on 63% had empty stats. I'm sure Kobe's 23 ppg on 38% had way more impact :rolleyes:

You sure throwing that 63% out there all tough like the Ni99a didn't play two feet away from the basket.


You guys must be too young to remember what Shaq looked like that year.

[Rake2204]

Because he was out of shape.Right, for which I alluded when suggesting that maybe "Shaq wore himself out early". I still do not believe that means Ben Wallace shut O'Neal down, nor do I believe that makes Shaquille O'Neal's stats empty. Despite possibly being out of shape, O'Neal still managed to average 27 points (on 63% shooting) and 11 rebounds while playing 43 minutes a night during that five game Finals series (which accounted for 5 of the 89 total games he played that season).

The gaudy statistics and the high amount of minutes seems to suggest that it might not been as simple as saying, "Shaquille O'Neal was out of shape, that's why he didn't score more." I mean, that could have been the case, but evidence suggests there could have been more to the story.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

You sure throwing that 63% out there all tough like the Ni99a didn't play two feet away from the basket.


You guys must be too young to remember what Shaq looked like that year.

Yeah, he was out of shape. Still had way more impact than Kobe did.

[HOoopCityJones]

Right, for which I alluded when suggesting that maybe "Shaq wore himself out early". I still do not believe that means Ben Wallace shut O'Neal down, nor do I believe that makes Shaquille O'Neal's stats empty. Despite possibly being out of shape, O'Neal still managed to average 27 points (on 63% shooting) and 11 rebounds while playing 43 minutes a night during that five game Finals series (which accounted for ive of the 89 total games he played that season).

The gaudy statistics and the high amount of minutes seems to suggest that it might not been as simple as saying, "Shaquille O'Neal was out of shape, that's why he didn't score more." I mean, that could have been the case, but evidence suggests there could have been more to the story.

I'll take Phil's judgement over anyone's and obviously he saw something that made him go away from Shaq.

Where was the infamous double teams our boy used to draw? Look just because I think he had a bad series doesn't mean he was butt, but the fact still stands that this was not the same Diesel.

Why do you think us Laker fans got all salty when this ni99a lost weight and shit when he went to play for Miami.

Bro was half assing out there in that series.

I'm not putting it all on him, never did. Kobe was suspect too, but attribute that to some damn good defense by them Pistons.



Yeah, he was out of shape. Still had way more impact than Kobe did.

Yup. Big men tend to have more impact.

I'm glad you put that together *pats on the head*

Good boy.

[Black and White]

Same way the Mavs beat the 2011 Heat, with team ball

[VIP2000]

You sure throwing that 63% out there all tough like the Ni99a didn't play two feet away from the basket.


You guys must be too young to remember what Shaq looked like that year.

He was a bit out of shape, but was still a Top 10 player. The Lakers still made the Finals in the West (beating defending champion Spurs and MVP Garnett) and were the heavily favored team against the Pistons. So it's not like dumping the ball to Shaq in the post was anything new.

[HOoopCityJones]

He was a bit out of shape, but was still a Top 10 player. The Lakers still made the Finals in the West (beating defending champion Spurs and MVP Garnett) and were the heavily favored team against the Pistons. So it's not like dumping the ball to Shaq in the post was anything new.


I never said the guy was shit.

But obviously Phil preferred to goto Kobe in the series.

To say Kobe just highjacked the series is Bullshit.

There were many factors to why we lost , which is what I put in my first post in this thread.

Foos hear you speaking the truth and think you're trying to tarnish a legacy or something.

[Rake2204]

I'll take Phil's judgement over anyone's and obviously he saw something that made him go away from Shaq.

Where was the infamous double teams our boy used to draw? Look just because I think he had a bad series doesn't mean he was butt, but the fact still stands that this was not the same Diesel.With complete sincerity, I must ask, what do you believe Phil Jackson saw that made him go away from a player who made 13 of the 16 shots he attempted in game 1 while bullying his way through a single covering, much smaller defender? Do you believe Jackson wanted Kobe Bryant to take 30 more shots than O'Neal (from as many compromising positions as he did) as a means of spreading the floor?

In regards to the lack of double teams O'Neal saw in the Finals, I do not believe that was because Detroit didn't fear him. Instead, as I mentioned earlier, the single coverage seemed like a calculated risk by the Pistons, holding out hope that the Lakers would not abuse that matchup for a game's entire duration (either due to fatigue, general game flow, or players looking past the option in favor of lower percentage shots).

O'Neal was 31, so he likely wasn't what he was four years earlier. Still, dropping 36 and 20 on 16 of 21 shooting while playing 47 minutes of one's 88th game of the season really isn't too shabby for someone deemed out of shape.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

The Pistons were no joke. I mean, not only did they end the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, but they also took the Spurs to 7 games the next season. They were in the conference finals every year from 2003-2008. It wasn't some fluke that they won. They were a fantastically constructed team.

Should have beaten the Spurs in that series.

[Rake2204]

Should have beaten the Spurs in that series.Yeah, that series bums me out (in particular, Rasheed's double on Manu in the corner, leaving Horry open for that triple) but Detroit fought the good fight, especially considering how I thought they were going to get swept after those first two games (both Spurs blowouts).

I usually reason with myself though. They didn't pull it out in '05, but at least the Pistons won at least one ring with that club. Most teams never even get that.

[HOoopCityJones]

With complete sincerity, I must ask, what do you believe Phil Jackson saw that made him go away from a player who made 13 of the 16 shots he attempted in game 1 while bullying his way through a single covering, much smaller defender? Do you believe Jackson wanted Kobe Bryant to take 30 more shots than O'Neal (from as many compromising positions as he did) as a means of spreading the floor?

In regards to the lack of double teams O'Neal saw in the Finals, I do not believe that was because Detroit didn't fear him. Instead, as I mentioned earlier, the single coverage seemed like a calculated risk by the Pistons, holding out hope that the Lakers would not abuse that matchup for a game's entire duration (either due to fatigue, general game flow, or players looking past the option in favor of lower percentage shots).

O'Neal was 31, so he likely wasn't what he was four years earlier. Still, dropping 36 and 20 on 16 of 21 shooting while playing 47 minutes of one's 88th game of the season really isn't too shabby for someone deemed out of shape.


Who knows what Phil saw, maybe it was because Shaq was half assing it? Ina Final at that. He should of destroyed Ben Wallace, had career nights against him etc.

But you can't tell me Kobe just went out there and did whatever and then went back over to the Bench and told Phil to shut up when he asked him about it. Twas by design.

[YouGotServed]

lol Rake destroying Kobe fan boys with logic. Dude's only argument is "maybe Shaq was half-assing it and that's probably why Phil decided to let Kobe shoot contested 30 footers"

I don't know if I should :lol or :facepalm

[HOoopCityJones]

lol Rake destroying Kobe fan boys with logic. Dude's only argument is "maybe Shaq was half-assing it and that's probably why Phil decided to let Kobe shoot contested 30 footers"

I don't know if I should :lol or :facepalm

:wtf: You can read?

[ArbitraryWater]

You sure throwing that 63% out there all tough like the Ni99a didn't play two feet away from the basket.


You guys must be too young to remember what Shaq looked like that year.

How the **** does at matter from what distance he played??? What if Shaq would be 6 feet tall? SHIT WONT CHANGE.

As it would be any less valuable smh

Kobe choked it up, why cant you sore loosers admit that.

[MrC1991]

One of the greatest defenses the game has ever seen. Everyone on that team knew their role and what they had to do. One of my favorite teams to watch. Full house beats 2 pairs everytime. I think I seen that on one of the signs a fan made during the series. I thought it was clever.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Don't fall for the propaganda. These Kobetards want to change history but anyone who saw the series knows Shaq was beasting even though he was out of shape. The only thing cringe-worthy in that series was Kobe's selfishness to share the ball.

[HOoopCityJones]

How the **** does at matter from what distance he played??? What if Shaq would be 6 feet tall? SHIT WONT CHANGE.

As it would be any less valuable smh

Kobe choked it up, why cant you sore loosers admit that.

:lol You Mad sweetie pie?

[MrC1991]

If I'm not mistaken wasn't 2004 the height of Shaq and Kobes feud? Also wasn't Kobes problems in Denver before or after that series? If so its kind of amazing they even made the finals with all of the problems going on inside and outside of the Lakers organization.

[BoutPractice]

Perfectly assembled team with the best defense in the league against a team with chemistry issues.

I wonder how the Finals would've turned out if Derek Fisher doesn't make that 0.4 seconds shot and the Spurs go on to win the series against LA... they most likely win against Minnesota, but what about Detroit? Given how competitive the series was in 2005, it would've been interesting to see.