Is DUI manslaughter sentencing too light...or is DUI sentencing not hard enough?

[Real Men Wear Green]

The Josh Brent sentence (http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/10345089/josh-brent-gets-180-days-jail-probation) got me thinking about how DUI's are dealt with. Laws vary from state to state but a general truth is that the more people you hurt the worse your sentence becomes. I don't mean at all to trivialize the fact that someone has died, but from a criminal (not civil) perspective I ask, why?

Assuming it's a case like Brent's where a passenger dies and the drunk isn't intentionally running someone over there is no intent to injure. So just judging it based on intention it's still just drunk driving.

On the flip side a good friend of mine is about a month away from getting his license back after his third DUI. He never did a day in jail, and although I'm sort of happy for him as he's my friend I really don't believe that he or anyone else with multiple DUIs should ever have the right to drive again. And I am kind of amazed that beyond having his license suspended and some fines he isn't punished.

Not speaking in terms of damage caused, just morally, why go easier on one than the other? Brent should be fiscally responsible for Jerry Brown's family for the rest of his life. That's the difference that I would make in punishment. But why put one in jail and not the other? They are equally dangerous. One was just luckier than the other.

[oarabbus]

I do think DUI manslaughter punishments are too light. Driving is a privilege not a right and a car is a several thousand pound weapon when a drunk person is behind the wheel.

Just look at Dante Stallworth who killed a guy and only got 30 days.

[-p.tiddy-]

DUIs are extremely hard to judge and I have had the exact same thoughts as you...I mean really the crime is the same regardless of the outcome

Brent HAD A PRIOR THOUGH...that is huge in relation to his case



I personally like the 3-strike system, IMO people who get DUIs should be given another chance...but once you hit 3 it's prison rape time

it's an easier mistake to make than most people like to admit, and you aren't even in the right mind state when you commit the crime...I would guess that the MAJORITY of adults age 30 or older in the US have driven drunk at some point in time.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I do think DUI manslaughter punishments are too light. Driving is a privilege not a right and a car is a several thousand pound weapon when a drunk person is behind the wheel.

Just look at Dante Stallworth who killed a guy and only got 30 days.
Sort of missed the point of what I was saying. While I wouldn't object to Stallworth being punished more severely I ask why a DUI that doesn't end in a death should be treated more lightly.

[-p.tiddy-]

On the flip side a good friend of mine is about a month away from getting his license back after his third DUI. He never did a day in jail, and although I'm sort of happy for him as he's my friend I really don't believe that he or anyone else with multiple DUIs should ever have the right to drive again. And I am kind of amazed that beyond having his license suspended and some fines he isn't punished.

he must have gotten his first two decades ago then...you can't do this anymore

there are actually people out there 20+ DUIs under their belt driving around, however they accumulated those DUIs back in 70s and 80s when the punishment was equal to a speeding ticket

[Real Men Wear Green]

DUIs are extremely hard to judge and I have had the exact same thoughts as you...I mean really the crime is the same regardless of the outcome

Brent HAD A PRIOR THOUGH...that is huge in relation to his case



I personally like the 3-strike system, IMO people who get DUIs should be given another chance...but once you hit 3 it's prison rape time

it's an easier mistake to make than most people like to admit, and you aren't even in the right mind state when you commit the crime...I would guess that the MAJORITY of adults age 30 or older in the US have driven drunk at some point in time.
Different people will be effected differently by the same amount of alcohol. But if you're an adult with experience drinking you know what your limit is. I once drove with 3 beers in me when I was 21. I think I may have failed a breathalyzer but I don't think I was truly drunk. Otherwise I've never come anywhere near drunk driving. It's not a hard thing to control. Pick a designated driver, use public transport or take a cab. I really don't have any sympathy for it.

[Real Men Wear Green]

he must have gotten his first two decades ago then...you can't do this anymore

there are actually people out there 20+ DUIs under their belt driving around, however they accumulated those DUIs back in 70s and 80s when the punishment was equal to a speeding ticket
His priors were indeed a while back but the laws vary from state to state. And it's also an advantage if you get a good lawyer. Funny thing: I just looked it up and the second conviction here in Mass is supposed to carry 30 days, mandatory jail time. I wonder if that's a recent change or something, because he did no time.

[niko]

I think the first time you should lose your license for 6 months. I get not jail time because maybe you made a stupid mistake (assuming nothing bad happens) but losing the license will make a lot of people think twice about it.

Jason Kidd left the house barely awake, drove right into a tree, and plead guilty and basically got time served.

[oarabbus]

Why aren't the charges harsher? Why is it "difficult to judge"? If you are at .09%, barely over the limit, then OK maybe some sort of light(er) sentence can be granted. But why do we tolerate drunk driving in the first place? No one gets a DUI their first time drunk driving. Everyone I know who's gotten a DUI had drunk driven many, many times prior to the arrest.

I'm not going to act like I'm some saint. I used to do it but I wisened up quickly and it's one of my biggest regrets, even though no consequences came of it. Someone losing their life because another person was too cheap to call a cab and wanted to get home is just ****ed up.

edit: I like Niko's idea of the 6 month license suspension. "What if the person has a job they need to drive to?" Tough **** you shouldn't have drunk driven, you are a danger to public safety when you drunk drive.

[GOBB]

I do think DUI manslaughter punishments are too light. Driving is a privilege not a right and a car is a several thousand pound weapon when a drunk person is behind the wheel.

Just look at Dante Stallworth who killed a guy and only got 30 days.

It was a tragedy but not malicious in nature. While Stallworth was driving drunk, he stopped after the incident and cooperated fully with the police. Plus took full responsibility. What we dont know is what that pedestrian did that night. He could have very well tried to beat Stallworth car and lost unfortunately. Hence a tragic situation. Its not as if he was standing at the bus stop and was struck. That is different. Or he hit the guy crossing at the crosswalk and Stallworth was too intoxicated too realize he had a red light. That is different.

He only did 26 days however...


Stallworth must also undergo drug and alcohol testing, will have a lifetime driver's license suspension and must perform 1,000 hours of community service. Lyons said after five years, Stallworth could win approval for limited driving for reasons such as employment.

As far as undergo drug and alcohol i'm not sure if thats an NFL thing? And unsure how often he will be tested. But losing your license for a lifetime is big.

Lets not forget he paid quite a bit financially to the family. I can understand there is no price on a life but how often do DUI manslaughter have the person pay the family anything? I'm not trying to prop up Donte, just saying he paid more than a 26 day sentence in jail.

[GOBB]

Edit: I'm wrong, the victim wasn't drunk. However he got in the vehicle knowing his teammate was drunk.

[-p.tiddy-]

in Texas your first DUI DOES result in losing your licence...

the "3-strike" rule really just means you can survive 2 DUIs without life in prison...it doesn't mean the first two are a slap on the wrist

I got my DUI in the late 90s...after it was all done I had paid over $20k in fines (enough to take a limo out ever weekend for a year) and done hours of community service and attend multiple MADD meetings. I also was on probation and had to piss in a cup every week for a year, and lost my licence for 3 months....all in all it really fckin sucked

[Dresta]

I think it should depend on the circumstances of the crash. Just because one person was drunk, does not necessarily mean that the crash was not the other person's fault. But if through your own gross irresponsibility, you cause the death of another human being, then you should get something like a decade, regardless of whether you are intoxicated or not.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think it should depend on the circumstances of the crash. Just because one person was drunk, does not necessarily mean that the crash was not the other person's fault. But if through your own gross irresponsibility, you cause the death of another human being, then you should get something like a decade, regardless of whether you are intoxicated or not.
I wouldn't lock someone up for a decade just because their driving sucks. A person with too many at-fault accidents should be a candidate for license revocation but you would be locking up senior citizens that really just need to stop driving and shouldn't be dealt with so harshly.

[niko]

in Texas your first DUI DOES result in losing your licence...

the "3-strike" rule really just means you can survive 2 DUIs without life in prison...it doesn't mean the first two are a slap on the wrist

I got my DUI in the late 90s...after it was all done I had paid over $20k in fines (enough to take a limo out ever weekend for a year) and done hours of community service and attend multiple MADD meetings. I also was on probation and had to piss in a cup every week for a year, and lost my licence for 3 months....all in all it really fckin sucked
What exactly (if its not rude asking) clicked in your head that all of this stopped? Because clearly it did....

[GOBB]

in Texas your first DUI DOES result in losing your licence...

the "3-strike" rule really just means you can survive 2 DUIs without life in prison...it doesn't mean the first two are a slap on the wrist

I got my DUI in the late 90s...after it was all done I had paid over $20k in fines (enough to take a limo out ever weekend for a year) and done hours of community service and attend multiple MADD meetings. I also was on probation and had to piss in a cup every week for a year, and lost my licence for 3 months....all in all it really fckin sucked

$20,000? :facepalm Payment plan and if so how long did it take to pay that off. Or did they want that money asap.

Clearly you've driven drunk quite a few times. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Glad you stopped.

[9erempiree]

I don't know where you guys are from but here in California a DUI and killing someone is charged as murder.

If you killed someone unintentionally and you were drinking, you will get substantial jail time.

Of course there are those instances where they would get 10 to 15 years for it rather than a life sentence and get out in half the time.

[9erempiree]

Per Cali laws....

1st DUI - 3 Months suspended license and 3 months of DUI school.

2nd - suspended indefinitely till you complete the 18 months of DUI school.

3rd DUI - suspended indefinitely, finish 18 months of school, possible alcohol treatment program and your license will be suspended for multiple years.

4th, 5th and beyond - jail time and suspended for life.

[-p.tiddy-]

What exactly (if its not rude asking) clicked in your head that all of this stopped? Because clearly it did....
I quit drinking, because my drinking was out of control and it was either stop drinking or die pretty much

my drunk driving stopped when my drinking stopped and I am ashamed to say I have driven drunk literally thousands of times :( ...it did slow down over the years though, but there were still times when I was would get behind then wheel while drunk in my 30s

in my 20s it was just pretty much a regular thing...and it was a regular thing for everyone I knew as well...we just drove drunk a lot...if someone was falling over themselves we might step in but for the most part we just didn't have fear of it...young and dumb

I always trusted myself to drive properly...I always just had more faith in myself than I should have...I always thought I was less drunk than I actually was...etc

I can remember back in the 90s racing friends down the highway at 120+ MPH...both of us drunk and with passengers...zipping around cars at high speed

all my fault, I take full responsibility, and I am lucky as all hell I didn't kill myself or even worse, someone else...I swear I have an angel watching me, because the list of shit I have done that should have killed me is long as fck

[-p.tiddy-]

$20,000? :facepalm Payment plan and if so how long did it take to pay that off. Or did they want that money asap.

Clearly you've driven drunk quite a few times. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Glad you stopped.
it was spread out to different things for different reasons...but most of that was court fees...

I was under age when I had my DUI...like 19 years old I think...my parents had to help me out with payment, but they forced me to pay them back over time

[niko]

I quit drinking, because my drinking was out of control and it was either stop drinking or die pretty much

my drunk driving stopped when my drinking stopped and I am ashamed to say I have driven drunk literally thousands of times :( ...it did slow down over the years though, but there were still times when I was would get behind then wheel while drunk in my 30s

in my 20s it was just pretty much a regular thing...and it was a regular thing for everyone I knew as well...we just drove drunk a lot...if someone was falling over themselves we might step in but for the most part we just didn't have fear of it...young and dumb

I always trusted myself to drive properly...I always just had more faith in myself than I should have...I always thought I was less drunk than I actually was...etc

I can remember back in the 90s racing friends down the highway at 120+ MPH...both of us drunk and with passengers...zipping around cars at high speed

all my fault, I take full responsibility, and I am lucky as all hell I didn't kill myself or even worse, someone else...I swear I have an angel watching me, because the list of shit I have done that should have killed me is long as fck

Damn. I had a really good friend growing up who crashed his car and paralyzed his girlfriend when he was drunk. (Neck down). That was it for him really, his life went totally to shit. I give you a lot of props for doing what you did, it's not easy to stop things like that.

[-p.tiddy-]

Damn. I had a really good friend growing up who crashed his car and paralyzed his girlfriend when he was drunk. (Neck down). That was it for him really, his life went totally to shit. I give you a lot of props for doing what you did, it's not easy to stop things like that.
I also have friends that are now dead to drunk driving as well as one who just "isn't the same" because of head trama

[GOBB]

I quit drinking, because my drinking was out of control and it was either stop drinking or die pretty much

my drunk driving stopped when my drinking stopped and I am ashamed to say I have driven drunk literally thousands of times :( ...it did slow down over the years though, but there were still times when I was would get behind then wheel while drunk in my 30s

in my 20s it was just pretty much a regular thing...and it was a regular thing for everyone I knew as well...we just drove drunk a lot...if someone was falling over themselves we might step in but for the most part we just didn't have fear of it...young and dumb

I always trusted myself to drive properly...I always just had more faith in myself than I should have...I always thought I was less drunk than I actually was...etc

I can remember back in the 90s racing friends down the highway at 120+ MPH...both of us drunk and with passengers...zipping around cars at high speed

all my fault, I take full responsibility, and I am lucky as all hell I didn't kill myself or even worse, someone else...I swear I have an angel watching me, because the list of shit I have done that should have killed me is long as fck

Damn I knew you were an alcoholic. But that story is wild. Wow. Glad you stopped. No judgement. :applause:

Who else would I have to own? Not many can fill the shoes of Skip Baseless as you can. :pimp:

[Rasheed1]

driving drunk is some reckless selfish bullish*t.. Props to Prime for correcting that issue before some got crippled or killed

[9erempiree]

We are all guilty of driving drunk. I had the same stories as Tiddy but not to that extreme.

Lesson learned and there is a time when age does matter and not a number. Times like this when you look at your age and you think to yourself that you shouldn't be doing this.

[niko]

We are all guilty of driving drunk. I had the same stories as Tiddy but not to that extreme.

Lesson learned and there is a time when age does matter and not a number. Times like this when you look at your age and you think to yourself that you shouldn't be doing this.
I never have. I don't drive out anywhere I am going to drink. I don't trust my judgment. It helps living in NY though, everything is train cab train cab when you are young.

[GOBB]

We are all guilty of driving drunk.

No.

[Rasheed1]

I don't drive drunk either.. And I trust my judgement.. but it only takes one unexpected thing to cause an accident and cost someone their life...

you'll be sitting in prison wishing you hadn't done it.. Just know before hand... don't do it

take it serious and you can still get drunk as you want. just follow some safety rules and you can have the same fun without the risk to other people's lives

[Balla_Status]

The reason why prime drove drunk (imo) is because Texas isn't set up for safe ride homes. It's so spread out. No taxis available right on the streets. No trains. No buses. etc.

You usually have to rely on a sober driver.

"Cant drink tonight. I'm driving."

"****ing *****. Take a shot. Chug this beer."

Or you just feel awkward being the only one driving so the sober guy says **** it and starts drinking. Then the plan goes to shit from there.

Drinking age needs to be lowered as well.

[GOBB]

The reason why prime drove drunk (imo) is because Texas isn't set up for safe ride homes. It's so spread out. No taxis available right on the streets. No trains. No buses. etc.

You usually have to rely on a sober driver.

"Cant drink tonight. I'm driving."

"****ing *****. Take a shot. Chug this beer."

Or you just feel awkward being the only one driving so the sober guy says **** it and starts drinking. Then the plan goes to shit from there.

Drinking age needs to be lowered as well.

:roll: :roll: :roll: hawker bieber

[Bandito]

We are all guilty of driving drunk. I had the same stories as Tiddy but not to that extreme.

Lesson learned and there is a time when age does matter and not a number. Times like this when you look at your age and you think to yourself that you shouldn't be doing this.
I never drive drunk. I just don't want to 'accidentally' kill someone over some beers. I always been responsible for my age though:rolleyes:

[Bandito]

The reason why prime drove drunk (imo) is because Texas isn't set up for safe ride homes. It's so spread out. No taxis available right on the streets. No trains. No buses. etc.

You usually have to rely on a sober driver.

"Cant drink tonight. I'm driving."

"****ing *****. Take a shot. Chug this beer."

Or you just feel awkward being the only one driving so the sober guy says **** it and starts drinking. Then the plan goes to shit from there.

Drinking age needs to be lowered as well.
I used to live in Texas and I know where you're coming from. Drinking there is hard man. No taxis whatsoever...

[ROCSteady]

I got a DUI when I was 17 and I thought the punishment was fair enough. I wasn't a legal adult (got it a month before my 18th) it was an automatic 6 month suspension of my license. Plus paying for required Alcohol Recovery courses that were supposed to be 12 weeks but I ended up getting discharged after like 6 or so. I don't know why I think the main guy just felt my slip up wasn't too concerning.

Plus having to pay for a lawyer and shit, going to court feeling somewhat of a degenerate so the shame is also a deterrent. I dunno I think it was pretty reasonable to have my life inconvenienced the way it was for that time period then get to reclaim my freedom of driving, not going to alcoholism classes etc.

A standard first time DUI shouldn't completely wreck someone's life and make it so difficult to where that person can't even get to school, work or contribute to their family or whatever. DUIs aren't a joke but a lot of times it's just a terrible stroke of bad luck or fate or whatever.

I'm not talkin like ppl drivin around completely bombed but of all the people that go out drinking who aren't looked at as loser drunk criminal scum for gettin arrested, EASILY could have multiple DUIs to their name and whatever reputation they have.

The most ideal thing is obv never to drink and drive but for ppl who like to go out socially and drink a couple, that isn't always possible unless it is a compressed city where taxis are always around. Even a person who is used to the party life and doesn't get drunk per se, in suitable standing to drive and be totally safe for all involved, could register high enough to catch a charge.

I remember one weekend I got totally shit faced hammered at a birthday party, like blackout drunk. I slept and woke up the next day and was still hungover and went to a family BBQ thing during the early day. I still felt like a mess but for some reason I drank a single beer then realized it was a mistake to drink anything after the previous night overindulgence. I drove home and got pulled over in THE EVENING at like probably 7 p.m. or later. The officer said I smelled like alcohol even though I felt 100% sober, like no drinking for hours and hours. I took a roadside blow test and STILL clocked a .04 BAC. Or so he said.

Point is, sometimes it's really hard to know what amount of alcohol can get you arrested. It's easy to think of the extremes and say don't be drunk when you operate a vehicle but sometimes you can be in total control of your vehicle's safety and not be putting anybody in danger, like say after a family dinner out or something, and still be in a bad luck scenario to get pulled over and be over the limit.

[Josh]

awwww you guys seem "mad" at them DUI folks. If I didn't know any better, I'd think half of you are undercover members of MADD.

Ruh roh! Anybody wanna taco bout it?

:confusedshrug:

[iamgine]

The Josh Brent sentence (http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/10345089/josh-brent-gets-180-days-jail-probation) got me thinking about how DUI's are dealt with. Laws vary from state to state but a general truth is that the more people you hurt the worse your sentence becomes. I don't mean at all to trivialize the fact that someone has died, but from a criminal (not civil) perspective I ask, why?

Assuming it's a case like Brent's where a passenger dies and the drunk isn't intentionally running someone over there is no intent to injure. So just judging it based on intention it's still just drunk driving.

On the flip side a good friend of mine is about a month away from getting his license back after his third DUI. He never did a day in jail, and although I'm sort of happy for him as he's my friend I really don't believe that he or anyone else with multiple DUIs should ever have the right to drive again. And I am kind of amazed that beyond having his license suspended and some fines he isn't punished.

Not speaking in terms of damage caused, just morally, why go easier on one than the other? Brent should be fiscally responsible for Jerry Brown's family for the rest of his life. That's the difference that I would make in punishment. But why put one in jail and not the other? They are equally dangerous. One was just luckier than the other.
What if I drive drunk and accidentally hit & kill a family and they have no other relative. Should I just get a suspended licence then?

[niko]

awwww you guys seem "mad" at them DUI folks. If I didn't know any better, I'd think half of you are undercover members of MADD.

Ruh roh! Anybody wanna taco bout it?

:confusedshrug:
That's not funny at all.

[Draz]

If I wanted to die I'll kill myself not along with others.

[Josh]

That's not funny at all.

I wasn't being serious. DUI (DWI is the more correct terminology bc technically, you don't have to be under the influence to get a DUI, simply driving while impaired such as lack of sleep for example, can get you a DWI conviction).

I've had two. Once at 18 another at 21. Haven't been behind the wheel after drinking since. I also lost my license four years no exceptions and the following three years a breathalyzer on my vehicle.

I thank God often I never killed anyone. I think the laws can be just or unjust, and like everything in life, it all depends on the individuals situation.

Ruh roh! so I guess we all taco bout it. I think in the end, Kesha says it best though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOubzHCUt48

and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdeFB7I0YH4