The rest of the NBA has now almost tied Wilt Chamberlain for most 60pt games

[CavaliersFTW]

With Melo's 62 point performance, now the combined efforts of all players who have ever played throughout NBA history have amassed a grand total of thirty-one 60 point performances. One more 60 point game and the entire history of players that have ever played in the NBA will be tied with Wilt Chamberlain's record of thirty-two 60 point games. Congrats entire history of NBA players minus Wilt Chamberlain, you've almost reached one of Wilt's records :cheers:

So who will be the next player to score 60? My guess is Durant, either this season or within the next 3 seasons :bowdown:





*EDIT*

Our answer has arrived! Lebron James 61 points on 3/3/14!

THE REST OF THE NBA IS NOW TIED WITH WILT CHAMBERLAIN!


:party: :djparty :dancin

[CelticBaller]

Nobody cares about that dead dude

[russwest0]

those playoff performances tho... :lol :lol :lol

[moe94]

People will get mad you even though you're just having fun and being blatant about it.

[Mr. Jabbar]

lebrons grandfather surely took advantage of his size

[TheReal Kendall]

Come on dude :facepalm I like Wilt so I'm not gonna say anything bad about him

[CelticBaller]

lebrons grandfather surely took advantage of his size
taking advantage of every opportunity runs on their genes

[Ratnik]

Wilt will be just another JaVale McGee in today's league

[CavaliersFTW]

People will get mad you even though you're just having fun and being blatant about it.
This is true I can already sense some rustled jimmies in this thread :oldlol:

[Budadiiii]

People will get mad you even though you're just having fun and being blatant about it.
ISH is even home to the mentally challenged. :applause:

No cyber bullying around here. We accept any and everyone.

[senelcoolidge]

Wilt the most dominate player ever, far none.

[dankok8]

To be fair Wilt had the super high pace and green light to shoot a lot.

Still a great record but there must be context applied.

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm just putting a spin on this 62 point game news that ESPN and NBAtv probably won't want to point out, but this is huge news guys, the combined efforts of every player who has ever played in the NBA (minus Wilt) actually has a fighting chance to tie one of Wilt's records! :lol

[Budadiiii]

Hey Cavs For The Win.... do you consider Wilt to be the GOAT? Just curious.

[Psileas]

OP is Euroleaguing like half the board right now.

[CavaliersFTW]

Hey Cavs For The Win.... do you consider Wilt to be the GOAT? Just curious.
Most of the time, he's my #1 as in, I'd start a franchise with him - he's my fav player. But I don't disagree with people who would take several other players there are a few good candidates to take #1 all time. I'm personally picking Wilt most days though :rockon:

[CelticBaller]

OP is Euroleaguing like half the board right now.
like anybody cares about poor mans javelee

[GOATbe]

:sleeping Prime Wilt would average 10ppg max in this era. They need to seriously consider erasing anything set before the mid 80s from the record books

[Psileas]

like anybody cares about rich mans shaq

Same way nobody cares about Euroleague?
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[CavaliersFTW]

:sleeping Prime Wilt would average 10ppg max in this era. They need to seriously consider erasing anything set before the mid 80s from the record books
They already do this, when is the last time ESPN has shown any stats prior to some arbitrary 80's date? They always have some arbitrary cut off. Wilt and Russell make everyone look bad with the things they accomplished both individually and with championships, GOATs gonna GOAT ya know? :applause:

[CelticBaller]

Same way nobody cares about Euroleague?
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
true

[Magic 32]

I love Wilt (third all time for me), but let's be real:

http://s21.postimg.org/u4vq8f80n/Bill_Bradley_NYWTS.jpg

[moe94]

Same way nobody cares about Euroleague?
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I've noticed a ton of people compare cavs to EuroLeague. Their similarities are pretty noticeable but cavs isn't flat out insane and actually makes videos so he definitely has great qualities.

Then again, EL is the funniest poster here so it's not really a diss. I love EL. :confusedshrug:

[CavaliersFTW]

I love Wilt (third all time for me), but let's be real:

http://s21.postimg.org/u4vq8f80n/Bill_Bradley_NYWTS.jpg

Pretty much the same as Magic Johnson's competition:

http://cdn87.psbin.com/img/mw=250/mh=250/cr=n/d=akbph/e8i816p5lnmfce53.jpg

:oldlol:

source: pic of two random basketball players from 1981

[CavaliersFTW]

I've noticed a ton of people compare cavs to EuroLeague. Their similarities are pretty noticeable but cavs isn't flat out insane and actually makes videos so he definitely has great qualities.

Then again, EL is the funniest poster here so it's not really a diss. I love EL. :confusedshrug:
Actually, Euroleague has a Youtube channel too, not even joking :lol

[kennethgriffin]

-regular season goat

- prime regular season goat

- athletic goat

- peak regular season goat

- off camera ( regular season ) goat

- unprotected premarital sex goat















:confusedshrug:

[Milbuck]

:sleeping

Where's Ed Wachter?

[plowking]

Yeah, but the league surpassed 60 point games that people actually care about a long time ago.

[Magic 32]

source: pic of two random basketball players from 1981

95% of the NBA in the 60's

[CavaliersFTW]

95% of the NBA in the 80's
I know that's why I picked the picture :cheers:

[Magic 32]

I know that's why I picked the picture :cheers:

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-201306/9075bb4d715078bf679328753550c7e8.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

Guess the decade:

8 white guys
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/celtics/Champs_85_86.jpg

4 white guys
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/0529/espndb_1969nbachamp_576.jpg




http://i.imgur.com/q5UXfHz.gif

[Magic 32]

Guess the decade:

8 white guys
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/celtics/Champs_85_86.jpg

4 white guys
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/0529/espndb_1969nbachamp_576.jpg




http://i.imgur.com/q5UXfHz.gif

Well, its the Celtics.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt has those 32, and then the next best player has 5.

Here were Wilt's LAST five 60+ point games...(with a 58 pointer in for fun)...

02/07/66: 65 points, 29 rebs, 28-43 from the field

03/03/66: 62 points, 37 rebs, 26-39 from the field

02/15/67: 58 points, 25 rebs, 26-34 from the field

12/16/67 : 68 points, 34 rebs, 30-40 from the field

01/26/69: 60 points, 21 rebs, 22-36 from the field

02/09/69: 66 points, 27 rebs, 29-35 from the field


He averaged 63.2 ppg, 28.8 rpg, 26.8 FGM, 37.8 FGA, and shot .709 from the field.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt has those 32, and then the next best player has 5.

Here were Wilt's LAST five 60+ point games...(with a 58 pointer in for fun)...

02/07/66: 65 points, 29 rebs, 28-43 from the field

03/03/66: 62 points, 37 rebs, 26-39 from the field

02/15/67: 58 points, 25 rebs, 26-34 from the field

12/16/67 : 68 points, 34 rebs, 30-40 from the field

01/26/69: 60 points, 21 rebs, 22-36 from the field

02/09/69: 66 points, 27 rebs, 29-35 from the field


He averaged 63.2 ppg, 28.8 rpg, 26.8 FGM, 37.8 FGA, and shot .709 from the field.
:biggums:

[jongib369]

Wilt has those 32, and then the next best player has 5.

Here were Wilt's LAST five 60+ point games...(with a 58 pointer in for fun)...

02/07/66: 65 points, 29 rebs, 28-43 from the field

03/03/66: 62 points, 37 rebs, 26-39 from the field

02/15/67: 58 points, 25 rebs, 26-34 from the field

12/16/67 : 68 points, 34 rebs, 30-40 from the field

01/26/69: 60 points, 21 rebs, 22-36 from the field

02/09/69: 66 points, 27 rebs, 29-35 from the field


He averaged 63.2 ppg, 28.8 rpg, 26.8 FGM, 37.8 FGA, and shot .709 from the field.


http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/aBKV1DP_460sa_v1.gif

[Marlo_Stanfield]

well since Wilt is the GOAT its no surprise he owns every scorin record in the history of the game:applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

well since Wilt is the GOAT its no surprise he owns every scorin record in the history of the game:applause:
My god 2014 draft did produce some good posters after all, welcome aboard sir :applause:

[houston]

ok

[LAZERUSS]

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/aBKV1DP_460sa_v1.gif

Yeah...the Wilt-bashers (and those who know no better) tend to believe that all of Chamberlain's high scoring games before his 66-67 season. The fact was, Wilt put up the HIGH point game(s), each season from 61-62 thru 68-69.

The game on 01/26/69 was an interesting one (for those who have not read about it yet)...

Wilt was averaging a career low 17 ppg mid-way thru that season. In fact, it was so bad, that Sports Illustrated ran an article claiming that Wilt could no longer score...and it hit the newstands on 01/27/69...

BTW, Chamberlain was leading the league in scoring in his 69-70 season, at 32.2 ppg on a .579 FG%, when he blew out his knee in the ninth game. And that average was not inflated by one huge game, either. He had games of 33, 35, 37, 38, 42, and 43 points...as well as 25 point game in which he just wiped the floor with rookie Kareem in every facet of the game. And speaking of Kareem, he would average 28.8 ppg that rookie season. Interesting too that Wilt's teammate, Jerry West, led the league in scoring that season, at 31.2 ppg. At the time of Wilt's injury (again, when Wilt was averaging 32.2 ppg, West was averaging 30.8 ppg.)

In any case, clearly Wilt could have scored so much more had he been so inclined.

[LAZERUSS]

As a sidenote...

Chamberlain had 8 59 point games in his career (and 9 58 point games)...

He was a shade away from 40-to-49 career 60+ point games...

[fpliii]

As a sidenote...

Chamberlain had 8 59 point games in his career (and 9 58 point games)...

He was a shade away from 40-to-49 career 60+ point games...
When you have a chance, I was wondering if you could discuss Wilt's 68-69 and 69-70 years, before the injury? We have a great mix by CavsFTW from his Warriors/Sixers seasons, but very little tape out there from the Lakers portion of his prime (I think a few of us agreed his prime ended with the injury in the other thread).

Also, regarding his later Lakers years, is it possible that he was still in his defensive prime? Or do you feel his loss of mobility post-injury made him a shell of his early self on that end?

[LAZERUSS]

When you have a chance, I was wondering if you could discuss Wilt's 68-69 and 69-70 years, before the injury? We have a great mix by CavsFTW from his Warriors/Sixers seasons, but very little tape out there from the Lakers portion of his prime (I think a few of us agreed his prime ended with the injury in the other thread).

Also, regarding his later Lakers years, is it possible that he was still in his defensive prime? Or do you feel his loss of mobility post-injury made him a shell of his early self on that end?

Van Breda Kolff badly mis-managed Chamberlain. He had him playing the high post (which, admittedly, Chamberlain had done well, part-time, in Philly), so that a declining Baylor could roam the baseline. He also blamed Wilt for the Laker chemistry issues, and even benched Wilt during the season (and in the last five minutes of a game seven, and during a furious Laker rally, that resulted in a two-point loss.)

Incidently, I have read those, like Bill Simmons and even Fatal9, claim that Wilt's impact with the 68-69 Lakers was minimal. They argue that LA "only" increased from a 52-30 win team, to a 55-27 win team. Of course, they will only mention the actual trade, in which the Lakers traded three players (basically two quality players) to Philly, for Chamberlain. BUT, they will never mention that the Lakers also lost Gail Goodrich, and his 14 ppg from 67-68, to the expansion draft (Goodrich was THE prize of that draft BTW.)

How big a factor was the loss of Goodrich? In LA's 67-68 season, West missed 31 games. But, with all-star guard Archie Clark (part of the Wilt trade), and Goodrich, the Lakers went 19-12 without him. So, the Lakers essentially went from a team with THREE exceptional guards, down to ONE. And guess what...West would miss 21 more games in 68-69, too. Still, even with no functional guard play, the Lakers were able to go 12-9 without West in 68-69.

Chamberlain was a beast in 68-69...despite being shackled by a bull-headed moronic coach. Simmons would never mention the fact that Chamberlain just crushed the three centers who would outvote him in the MVP balloting...in both regular season numbers, and in H2H play. Only Unseld's 3-3 team record in those H2H's was close, too. Chamberlain mauled Reed's Knicks, 5-1, and Russell's Celtics, 4-2, in H2H w-l records.

The Russell voting was really ridiculous. Wilt annihilated him in their regular season H2H's, going 6-0 in scoring H2H's, including a 35-5 beatdown, and 5-0-1 in rebounding H2H's, including a crushing margins of 21-8 and 42-18. And Wilt's Lakers also had a considerably better regular season W-L record, too. Obviously, there continued to be an "anti-Wilt" bias in the voting, as there was for much of his career.

Oh, and on Dec. 25th, in 1968, Chamberlain put up a RECORDED 23 blocked shots (in a nationally televised game...that is nowhere to be found now BTW), which, is miles ahead of the "official" mark of 17.

And in the post-season, he pounded Thurmond, solidly out-rebounding him, and, as always, just murdering him in FG% efficiency. The reality was, Wilt was by FAR, the best center on the planet in 68-69. There was only one man who could contain him,...and that was Van Breda Kolff.


As for 69-70, I think there were two main factors that re-energized Wilt going into that season. First, his new coach, Joe Mullaney, immediately asked Chamberlain to become the focal point of the offense again. And secondly, the arrival of rookie Lew Alcindor. And there was no question about it, either. Chamberlain was off to one of his finest seasons ever, even at age 33, in those first nine games (which included a domination of Alcindor in one of them...the only H2H between the two, before Wilt shredded his knee.)

The knee injury was serious. Even the most optimistic medical opinion had Wilt out for at least the season (really, a full year.) And there were those that believed that a 33 year old, 300 lb Wilt, was probably done, too. But he just stunned the medical experts with an amazing rehabilitation program that he, himself, went on.

Here again, have you ever read anything by Simmons (or Fatal9) which APPLAUDED Wilt for coming back way ahead of schedule. I won't take the time to look it up now, but PHILA actually posted a quote from Chamberlain, in which he made up his mind to come back early, even at considerably less than 100%, to HELP lead his teammates to a title.

And I doubt you have ever read anything from either of those two clowns PRAISING Wilt's play in leading a COMEBACK from a first-round, 3-1 series deficit, with three straight dominating games of 36-14 (10 blocks); a QUAD double of 12-26-11-11; and a game seven of 30-27-6 with 11 blocks.

And the fact was, Wilt's 48-34 Lakers were solid under-dogs going into the Finals against the 60-22 Knicks. NY had a loaded and deep lineup, and they had the reigning MVP, Willis Reed, at his peak. Amazingly, a laterally-limited Wilt battled Reed to a 2-2 draw in their first four games of that series (a 2-2 series...which, BTW, was already better than Alcindor's 56-26 Bucks, who had been blown out in the EDF's by the Knicks, 4-1.)

The pivotal game of that series was game five. Reed went down with his leg injury (a similar injury that Wilt played with for every minute of the '68 EDF's BTW.) NY was down by 10 points (and Wilt was badly outplaying Reed to that point), and it would go to 13 at the half. However, the officiating in the second half was very suspect, as reported by NY TIMES writer, Leonard Koppett,...which probably explained why a brutalized West and Wilt were limited to a total of FIVE second half shots...COMBINED. The Knicks came back to win that game, without Reed.

In game six, Chamberlain just crushed the Reedless Knicks, in a blowout win. But, an inspired NY team, even with Reed contributing virtually nothing, just blew out LA in game seven. The fact was, Chamberlain was the ONLY Laker to play well in that game. And Reed, despite scoring a total of 11 points, on 4-10 shooting, with 3 rebounds...in the last three pivotal games of that series...won the FMVP. And, despite scoring 88 points, on 39-55 shooting, with 71 rebounds, in those last three games...Chamberlain was labeled a "choker." A Wilt who was only four months removed from major knee surgery, and who put up the only 20-20 .600 series in Finals history (23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and on a .625 FG%.)

Offensively, Wilt was never the same after that injury. He lost a lot of his lateral mobility (although very little of his vertical leaping ability.) And in his own words, he was a physical wreck in the 70-71 season. However, even he was pleasantly surprised by the fact that his arthritis actually seemed to clear up before his 71-72 season.

And, had their been a DPOY award in that 71-72 season, Chamberlain would have been a unanimous pick. His new coach, Bill Sharman brought in a new mentality, and with Wilt's defense, rebounding, and outlet passes, the realtively old Laker team just ran the NBA to death that season.

And while KAJ had heavy scoring numbers against Wilt in the WCF's, he couldn't hit the ocean from a lifeboat against Wilt in the last four games of that series, and those that actually watched that series, including the Milwaukee Press, and Milwaukeee coach, acknowledged that Wilt outplayed KAJ. Time Magazine even went a step further, proclaiming that Wilt had DECISIVELY outplayed KAJ in that SERIES.

And then Chamberlain just completely took over the Finals. While West was puking all over the floor in that series, Chamberlain shelled the entire NY frontline, and ran away with the FMVP. IMHO, this might have been Wilt's greatest season. For the first time in his career, he was no longer considered the best player on the planet, and then to pull a "Russell" on Kareem, and just reduce him to a shot-jacking brick-layer, was perhaps his finest moment.

He continued to be an elite player in his last season, at age 36. He would finish 4th in MVP voting, lead the league in rebounding, was voted first team all-defense (again...and ahead of players like Cowens, Lanier, Thurmond, and KAJ), set a FG% mark that will probably never be broken, led his team to a 60-22 record, and then to yet another Finals (his 4th in five seasons in LA.) And in the process, he just murdered a Thurmond, who had battered KAJ yet again in the playoffs (and sent the heavily-favored Bucks packing.) And while he was not great in the Finals, his team lost four straight games in the last minute, and he was clearly LA's best player in the clinching loss. In his very last game, Wilt hung a 23 point game, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds.

[EllEffEll]

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-201306/9075bb4d715078bf679328753550c7e8.jpg

OT, but they're one of the most underrated teams in history. 82/83 Sixers are up there with the GOAT NBA teams IMHO.

[TylerOO]

Nobody cares about that dead dude

:roll: :applause:

[fpliii]

Cool, thanks LAZ.

[GoranDragon]

Different era.

Carmelo 62pt today would equate to roughly 90pt in Wilt's era and I'm being kind with the inflation.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

My god 2014 draft did produce some good posters after all, welcome aboard sir :applause:
will say the same about you if u ever start hating on da Bron:cheers:

[SexSymbol]

Wilt played in an era where average center was 6'8", none of his individual records should be hold accountable.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Wilt played in an era where average center was 6'8", none of his individual records should be hold accountable.
he played against some absolute beasts and was most certainly ten times better than Kobrick ever was:facepalm

[SexSymbol]

he played against some absolute beasts and was most certainly ten times better than Kobrick ever was:facepalm
Wilt is not close to Kobe all-time, but what does that have to do with anything here?
in the end, Wilt will be remembered for two things - 100 points in a game and losing in general

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Wilt is not close to Kobe all-time, but what does that have to do with anything here?
in the end, Wilt will be remembered for two things - 100 points in a game and losing in general
even wilt haters have him top 5:roll: :roll: :roll:
Kobe?? not so much:lol

[SexSymbol]

even wilt haters have him top 5:roll: :roll: :roll:
Kobe?? not so much:lol
Maybe uneducated ones.
Wilt has no case over russell, mj, kareem, bird, kobe, hakeem, tim duncan, mikan, shaq, probably missed out on somebody too. He's in the moses/lebron/havlicek tier

[mehyaM24]

he played against some absolute beasts and was most certainly ten times better than Kobrick ever was:facepalm

not at all.....not even remotely.....single dumbest post in human history.. now punch yourself right smack dab in the pvssy for being so stupid

[Rose'sACL]

please post percentage of blacks in league during wilt's prime and don't tell me that it doesn't matter because everyone knows that blacks are superior at basketball. Just look at any top 10 list of any poster. only larry bird makes it.
Wasn't it around 20% black in 60s? it is more than 80% black right now.

[LAZERUSS]

not at all.....not even remotely.....single dumbest post in human history.. now punch yourself right smack dab in the pvssy for being so stupid

Yep...the centers Chamberlain faced in his career were crap. Players like Lovellette, Reed, Bellamy, Unseld, Cowens, Lanier, Hayes, McAdoo, Thurmond, Russell, Kareem, and even Gilmore.

[Psileas]

Yep...the centers Chamberlain faced in his career were crap. Players like Lovellette, Reed, Bellamy, Unseld, Cowens, Lanier, Hayes, McAdoo, Thurmond, Russell, Kareem, and even Gilmore.

80% of these guys are white.



And 6'8.

[LAZERUSS]

80% of these guys are white.



And 6'8.

Of course you are exaggerating.

They were all white, and none of them were over 6-6.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

please post percentage of blacks in league during wilt's prime and don't tell me that it doesn't matter because everyone knows that blacks are superior at basketball. Just look at any top 10 list of any poster. only larry bird makes it.
Wasn't it around 20% black in 60s? it is more than 80% black right now.
really, really, really really dumb post. congrats:cheers:

[SexSymbol]

Yep...the centers Chamberlain faced in his career were crap. Players like Lovellette, Reed, Bellamy, Unseld, Cowens, Lanier, Hayes, McAdoo, Thurmond, Russell, Kareem, and even Gilmore.

Lovelette doesn't give anything at basketball-reference, you need to make up players to prop up wilt. #rektlikeyouranus.
Reed - 6-9 235
Bellamy - 6-11, 225 (lol, lanket)
Unseld - 6-7, 245 (#eddycurryancestor). OH and his middle name is Sissel. Basically Sissy.
Cowens - 6-9 230
Lanier was post 1970, there's like two years of which Wilt even played in the 70s, same for kareem.
Mcadoo 6-9 210
Thurmond 6-11 225, another lanket.
Won't bother with what's left.
Nobody's even 7', and wilt's like 7'2 280. It's like Shaq playing against Kobe, yeah he'd score more and rebound more, what the **** does that prove.
Most of these guys would be basement-living, sister-panties-sniffing pedophiles if they played these days. Who am I kidding with played lol

[Rose'sACL]

really, really, really really dumb post. congrats:cheers:
are my stats wrong? i googled it as i wasn't alive back in the 60s.

[Psileas]

Of course you are exaggerating.

They were all white, and none of them were over 6-6.

And with shoes on, they shrink to 6-4.

[Rose'sACL]

And with shoes on, they shrink to 6-4.
can you guys tell me percentage of blacks in league in 60s? google is giving me weird results. 4 results show it at 20% while one link has it at 83%.
Not making fun of you. just asking.

[GoranDragon]

Is the OP really comparing THE ENTIRE NBA to a player with only 2 rings?:biggums: :wtf:

[SexSymbol]

I believe the rest of the NBA also has like a 60-2 advantage in rings.
Just sayan

[LAZERUSS]

Is the OP really comparing THE ENTIRE NBA to a player with only 2 rings?:biggums: :wtf:

In a TEAM sport. Yes, the ENTIRE NBA. I know you do not have the ability to grasp that fact...but Chamberlain is still ahead of the ENTIRE NBA in it's ENTIRE history, in terms of 60+ point games.

How come ONLY Wilt?

[LAZERUSS]

And with shoes on, they shrink to 6-4.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

One of the all-time classics...

[SexSymbol]

In a TEAM sport. Yes, the ENTIRE NBA. I know you do not have the ability to grasp that fact...but Chamberlain is still ahead of the ENTIRE NBA in it's ENTIRE history, in terms of 60+ point games.

How come ONLY Wilt?
Because he was so much bigger and stronger then everybody so his team made him score as much as possible just 4 fun, as he was missing play-offs or getting beaten in PO every year. He was basically a circus lion before circus's lions became popular, he's like the OG circus lion. Everybody knows lion is stron and lethal and shit but they still make him jump through hoops for kids to laugh. That was Wilt's entire Philly career and he was later on traded, because the management had enough of fun and wanted to finally win. He then proceeded to be a solid role-player in los angeles, showing what he would've been had he not been a circus lion wannabe.
TL;DR Russell 11 rings.

[LAZERUSS]

can you guys tell me percentage of blacks in league in 60s? google is giving me weird results. 4 results show it at 20% while one link has it at 83%.
Not making fun of you. just asking.

I'm sure you could google it, just as I could, but no need.

Again, Chamberlain had entire MULTIPLE SEASONS, covering 10-12 H2H games, in which he averaged 38-40 ppg against RUSSELL.

He had entire SEASONS, covering 10 H2H games in each, in which he averaged 44 and 53 ppg against the 6-11 Walt BELLAMY (who would be listed at 7-0 feet in today's NBA.)

He had an ENTIRE season, covering 11 H2H games, against REED, in which he averaged 40 ppg.

He was routinely hanging 50+ games on the seven-footers of his era, too, some of whom were Black.

Again, a prime Chamberlain faced many of the same centers that a prime Kareem would face a few years later, and was FAR more dominant against them, than KAJ ever was.

And, of course, and a 38-39 year KAJ, who was barely able to jump over a matchstick, just slaughtered Hakeem in TEN STRAIGHT H2H games in their '85 and '86 H2H's (BTW, Gilmore also annihilated Hakeem in those years as well)...to the tune of 33 ppg on a staggering .621 FG%, which included games of 40, 43, and 46 points (in only 37 minutes, and on 21-30 shooting.) Hell, a peak Shaq, and against a fading Hakeem, was only able to score a high of 37 against Olajuwon.

Yet I am supposed to believe that the 60's were weak?

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Because he was so much bigger and stronger then everybody so his team made him score as much as possible just 4 fun, as he was missing play-offs or getting beaten in PO every year. He was basically a circus lion before circus's lions became popular, he's like the OG circus lion. Everybody knows lion is stron and lethal and shit but they still make him jump through hoops for kids to laugh. That was Wilt's entire Philly career and he was later on traded, because the management had enough of fun and wanted to finally win. He then proceeded to be a solid role-player in los angeles, showing what he would've been had he not been a circus lion wannabe.
TL;DR Russell 11 rings.
god damn ur one disgusting poster. no wonder you are a lakers fan:facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

Because he was so much bigger and stronger then everybody so his team made him score as much as possible just 4 fun, as he was missing play-offs or getting beaten in PO every year. He was basically a circus lion before circus's lions became popular, he's like the OG circus lion. Everybody knows lion is stron and lethal and shit but they still make him jump through hoops for kids to laugh. That was Wilt's entire Philly career and he was later on traded, because the management had enough of fun and wanted to finally win. He then proceeded to be a solid role-player in los angeles, showing what he would've been had he not been a circus lion wannabe.
TL;DR Russell 11 rings.


There is so much wrong with this post. Obviously you have never researched anything on Wilt. BUT I had to get a kick out of the Philly comment. After all, all Chamberlain did was lead them to the best record in the league all three full seasons while he was there, and to a dominating world title in '67.

As for the "trade"...

:roll: :roll: :roll:

You do realize that Chamberlain FORCED the Sixers to trade him, right? Go ahead and do some actual RESEARCH, and then get back to me. Oh, and as a sidenote, how well did Philly do after that Chamberlain "trade", and where was that franchise in Wilt's Last season in the league?

[SexSymbol]

There is so much wrong with this post. Obviously you have never researched anything on Wilt. BUT I had to get a kick out of the Philly comment. After all, all Chamberlain did was lead them to the best record in the league all three full seasons while he was there, and to a dominating world title in '67.

As for the "trade"...

:roll: :roll: :roll:

You do realize that Chamberlain FORCED the Sixers to trade him, right? Go ahead and do some actual RESEARCH, and then get back to me. Oh, and as a sidenote, how well did Philly do after that Chamberlain "trade", and where was that franchise in Wilt's Last season in the league?
You're not helping wilt with admitting he forced a trade lol.
Where was Russell in Wilt's 7th season? Oh, he was the GOAT at the time.
Russell>Kareem>Mikan>Hakeem>Shaq>DRob>Wilt.
Wilt's a circus act, he even statpadded his 100 game when he was being force fed the ball just to see how much can a big fella get. 4 real, that's what circus act is all about right there.
Wilt's defense also sucks, he has nothing but blocks into the 3rd row, no way in hell he woulda got at least 1 DPOY.
Russell on one leg and without an eye > 2xWilt

[BoutPractice]

Loved the 80s Celtics pic.

If we look at today...
This guy is leading the league in steals
http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20081117elpepudep_21/LCO340/Ies/Ricky_Rubio.jpg
This guy is an NBA All-Star starter
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4TpCGGKlB4Q/S8N_xiyDLnI/AAAAAAAAC-0/D_u84h4Bbd0/s1600/StephenCurry_Bloodbath3.jpg

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Loved the 80s Celtics pic.

If we look at today...
This guy is leading the league in steals
http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20081117elpepudep_21/LCO340/Ies/Ricky_Rubio.jpg
This guy is an NBA All-Star starter
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4TpCGGKlB4Q/S8N_xiyDLnI/AAAAAAAAC-0/D_u84h4Bbd0/s1600/StephenCurry_Bloodbath3.jpg
two cute teenage girls showing how its done:applause: :applause:

[fragokota]

lebrons grandfather surely took advantage of his size

:lol :lol :lol

[LAZERUSS]

Loved the 80s Celtics pic.

If we look at today...
This guy is leading the league in steals
http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20081117elpepudep_21/LCO340/Ies/Ricky_Rubio.jpg
This guy is an NBA All-Star starter
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4TpCGGKlB4Q/S8N_xiyDLnI/AAAAAAAAC-0/D_u84h4Bbd0/s1600/StephenCurry_Bloodbath3.jpg

Great post. Can you imagine a some 6-9 white guy leading the NBA in rebounding in this era, as well?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[BoutPractice]

I'd love it if we could make grainy, black and white, slowed down videos of embarrassing plays in today's game. Think the gifs used to mock LeBron's post game, or any play by Kendrick Perkins.

Or alternatively great players whose game just looks plain 'uncool' like Duncan. A Duncan bank shot. We could make a compilation for posterity.

[SexSymbol]

I'd love it if we could make grainy, black and white, slowed down videos of embarrassing plays in today's game. Think the gifs used to mock LeBron's post game, or any play by Kendrick Perkins.

Or alternatively great players whose game just looks plain 'uncool' like Duncan. A Duncan bank shot. We could make a compilation for posterity.
Or we could make a highlight reel of Wilt choking.
Although I don't think a storage space for such a massive file exists even with today's technology

[LAZERUSS]

Or we could make a highlight reel of Wilt choking.
Although I don't think a storage space for such a massive file exists even with today's technology

Yep, no one "choked" quite like Chamberlain...


The idiotic Bill Simmons claims that Wilt "shrunk" in the post-season, particularly in BIG games.

Had he actually done any real research into Wilt's post-season career, he would have found that Wilt averaged 27.0 ppg in his 35 "must-win" and/or clinching games. Meanwhile, his starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg in those 35 games. He also outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including a 19-0 edge in his first 19 games of those 35. Furthermore, in his 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from 59-60 thru 65-66), Chamberlain averaged 37.3 ppg in those "do-or-die" or clinching games. And there were MANY games in which he just CRUSHED his opposing centers in those games (e.g. he outscored Kerr in one them, 53-7.)

Wilt had THREE of his four 50+ point post-season games, in these "elimination games", including two in "at the limit" games, and another against Russell in a "must-win" game. He also had games of 46-34 and 45-27 (and only 4 months removed from major knee surgery) in these types of games. In addition he had games of 39 and 38 in clinching wins.

In the known 19 games in which we have both Wilt's, and his starting opposing center's rebounding numbers, Chamberlain outrebounded them in 15 of them, and by an average margin of 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg. And, had we had all 35 of the totals, it would have been by a considerably larger margin. A conservative estimate would put Wilt with at least a 30-5 overall edge in those 35 games. He also had games, even against the likes of Russell, and in "must-win" situations, where he just MURDERED his opposing centers (e.g. he had one clinching game, against Russell, in which he outrebounded him by a 36-21 margin.)

And finally, in the known FG% games in which we have, Chamberlain not only shot an eye-popping .582 in those "do-or-die" games, but he held his opposing centers to a combined .413 FG%. BTW, he played against Kareem in two "clinching" games, and held Abdul-Jabbar to a combined .383 shooting in those two games (23-60), while Wilt shot .545 in those games (18-33).

The bottom line, in the known games of the 35 that Wilt played in that involved a "must-win" or clincher, Wilt averaged 27 ppg, 26.1 rpg, and shot .582 (and the 27 ppg figure was known for all 35 of those games.)

And once again, Chamberlain played in 11 games which went to the series limit (nine game seven's, one game five of a best-of-five series, and one game three of a best-of-three series), and all he did was average 29.9 ppg (outscoring his opposing center by a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg margin in the process), with 26.7 rpg, and on .581 shooting. Or he was an eye-lash away from averaging a 30-27 game, and on nearly .600 shooting, in those 11 "at the limit" games.




Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain's TEAMs went 24-11 in those 35 games, too.

That was the same player that Simmons basically labeled a "loser", and a "choker", and who "shrunk" in his BIG games.

[SexSymbol]

Yep, no one "choked" quite like Chamberlain...
Why are you posting me the averages? wtf, choking is not trying, not playing bad.
LeBron had great stats in game 5 of boston series, 2010. That still is one of the most disgraceful chokes in NBA history.

If you want numbers, post the FT numbers and margins of close games. You know that, you just don't want to admit it

[LAZERUSS]

Why are you posting me the averages? wtf, choking is not trying, not playing bad.
LeBron had great stats in game 5 of boston series, 2010. That still is one of the most disgraceful chokes in NBA history.

If you want numbers, post the FT numbers and margins of close games. You know that, you just don't want to admit it

Oh sure. And I could post Bird's, Hakeem's and Kobe's FG%'s in their game sevens in their Finals, too.

Choke jobs... look up Kobe in several of his Finals, Bird in several of his playoff series (including in Finals, even on a winning team), and Kareem, who managed lose with favorites several times in his career, and like Bird, was just awful in some. And Hakeem? Where do I begin? He couldn't get his team past the first round of the playoffs in over half of his post-season career, and in the majority of those, his team's were blown out.

[SexSymbol]

Oh sure. And I could post Bird's, Hakeem's and Kobe's FG%'s in their game sevens in their Finals, too.

Choke jobs... look up Kobe in several of his Finals, Bird in several of his playoff series (including in Finals, even on a winning team), and Kareem, who managed lose with favorites several times in his career, and like Bird, was just awful in some. And Hakeem? Where do I begin? He couldn't get his team past the first round of the playoffs in over half of his post-season career, and in the majority of those, his team's were blown out.
I told you, but you're too stupid to understand.
Choke =/= bad game. Choke is not trying. And nobody gave less of a **** than wilt in Philly. Nikka was all about stats. That's how you end up with 2 rings, while your direct opponent in all-time rankings dominates the league for gazillion of years.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

I told you, but you're too stupid to understand.
Choke =/= bad game. Choke is not trying. And nobody gave less of a **** than wilt in Philly. Nikka was all about stats. That's how you end up with 2 rings, while your direct opponent in all-time rankings dominates the league for gazillion of years.
hope u get banned real soon:facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

I told you, but you're too stupid to understand.
Choke =/= bad game. Choke is not trying. And nobody gave less of a **** than wilt in Philly. Nikka was all about stats. That's how you end up with 2 rings, while your direct opponent in all-time rankings dominates the league for gazillion of years.

Ok, and if you claiming that Russell "dominated" Wilt because of his TEAM's success, then I guess Hakeem was dominated by Mark Eaton, Robert Parish, Mychal Thompson, Vlade Divac, Alton Lister, and even a myriad of non-centers, of which he faced several times in his post-season flop jobs.

Hell, you can carry that to MJ, Bird, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, et al, all of whom "lost" (since they didn't win a ring in those years) MANY times over.

TEAM game. And generally, the better TEAM wins.

[Ed Wachter]

I'd love it if we could make grainy, black and white, slowed down videos of embarrassing plays in today's game. Think the gifs used to mock LeBron's post game, or any play by Kendrick Perkins.

Or alternatively great players whose game just looks plain 'uncool' like Duncan. A Duncan bank shot. We could make a compilation for posterity.

I'll gladly do it. Just give me the plays.

[AirFederer]

How many of those games did he win?
Wilt was a great great scorer, but imho not the perfect teamplayer those high scoring years.

[SexSymbol]

hope u get banned real soon:facepalm
Yeah, that's your only hope of winning an argument against me, biatch

[Ed Wachter]

Test.

http://i.imgur.com/VpwOJOs.gif

[LAZERUSS]

How many of those games did he win?
Wilt was a great great scorer, but imho not the perfect teamplayer those high scoring years.

Same with MJ in his high scoring seasons. A complete loser. Or Kareem in his highest scoring season.

Again, I find it fascinating that Russell is declared the "winner" over Chamberlain, despite the fact that Wilt just crushed him in their post-season H2H's (as well as regular season H2H's), and yet how many times have you read someone claiming that...

Dennis Johnson just wiped the floor with MJ in '86 and '87 (slaughtered him actually, sweeping him in both.)

Or for the Wilt-haters, how do explain Chamberlain "beating" Kareem, and in KAJ's greatest statistical season?

Or players like Cowens, and Webster beating Kareem (Webster must have massacred him)?

Or Ostertag just crushing Shaq in the late 90's. Or Ben Wallace annhilating Shaq in '04?

And I have already provided some of a near endless list of the centers (and even PF's) that murdered Hakeem in his career H2H's.

At least Chamberlain was losing to a GOAT center, and not some complete clod like those guys were "losing" to.

[jongib369]

Great post. Can you imagine a some 6-9 white guy leading the NBA in rebounding in this era, as well?

:roll: :roll: :roll:
6' 7.75 ****

[LAZERUSS]

6' 7.75 ****

True.

Sorry. can you imagine a 6-7 white guy leading the NBA in rebounding? That would truly be laughable.

[CavaliersFTW]

True.

Sorry. can you imagine a 6-7 white guy leading the NBA in rebounding? That would truly be laughable.
It was never done in the 60's... yet it HAS been done in the 21st century '10's... Also in the '00's a 6 foot 1 inch unathletic white guy was a back to back MVP. Chalk up another victory for short white guys! That shit never happened in the 60's! We need to coin THIS era the "short white guy era" :oldlol:

[avonbarksdale]

who cares everyone was 5'10 and white i could have scored like 40 on the regular

[Marchesk]

It was never done in the 60's... yet it HAS been done in the 21st century '10's... Also in the '00's a 6 foot 1 inch unathletic white guy was a back to back MVP. Chalk up another victory for short white guys! That shit never happened in the 60's! We need to coin THIS era the "short white guy era" :oldlol:

That would be the equivalent of Cousy winning MVP over guys like Russell, Wilt and Baylor :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Marchesk]

who cares everyone was 5'10 and white i could have scored like 40 on the regular

http://www.thekathleenshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Steve-Nash-Pheonix-Suns.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

That would be the equivalent of Cousy winning MVP over guys like Russell, Wilt and Baylor :roll: :roll: :roll:
Casual fans underestimate the amount of backfire that happens when you talk about unathletic white guys and era's, the 60's was the era of the greatest physical specimen who ever played, and 4 of the top 5 players were black. This era? Not so much.. Nash b2b MVP, Kevin Love rebounding king, double double machine and 30/30 game leader, A fat Andrew Bogut shot blocking king, Dirk Nowtizki in his 30's FMVP over the stacked Heat... this is a stronger era for unathletic white guys than the 60s by FAR, strongest unathletic white guy era since the 50's :lol

[CelticBaller]

Test.

http://i.imgur.com/VpwOJOs.gif
:oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

It was never done in the 60's... yet it HAS been done in the 21st century '10's... Also in the '00's a 6 foot 1 inch unathletic white guy was a back to back MVP. Chalk up another victory for short white guys! That shit never happened in the 60's! We need to coin THIS era the "short white guy era" :oldlol:

Love it.

We are now officially in the "Short White Guy Era." Hell, I might try out for the NBA now...

[LAZERUSS]

Chamberlain needed 1045 games (actually less) to reach 32 60+ point games. Does anyone have any idea how many other NBA games have been played since it's inception?

[fpliii]

Just had a chance to reread this. I have some questions, if you don't mind (apologies for having so many, I just want to learn more about this part of Wilt's career):


Van Breda Kolff badly mis-managed Chamberlain. He had him playing the high post (which, admittedly, Chamberlain had done well, part-time, in Philly), so that a declining Baylor could roam the baseline. He also blamed Wilt for the Laker chemistry issues, and even benched Wilt during the season (and in the last five minutes of a game seven, and during a furious Laker rally, that resulted in a two-point loss.)
Could you give me a rough breakdown of how much of his time he spent in the low post vs the high post over the years? Don't need percentages, just want to learn more about the gradual shift (I'd thought it was abrupt and sudden previously).


Chamberlain was a beast in 68-69...despite being shackled by a bull-headed moronic coach. Simmons would never mention the fact that Chamberlain just crushed the three centers who would outvote him in the MVP balloting...in both regular season numbers, and in H2H play. Only Unseld's 3-3 team record in those H2H's was close, too. Chamberlain mauled Reed's Knicks, 5-1, and Russell's Celtics, 4-2, in H2H w-l records.Was he still in his offensive/defensive primes? If not, how far removed was he from each?


Oh, and on Dec. 25th, in 1968, Chamberlain put up a RECORDED 23 blocked shots (in a nationally televised game...that is nowhere to be found now BTW), which, is miles ahead of the "official" mark of 17.Same as above, was he still in his defensive prime?


And in the post-season, he pounded Thurmond, solidly out-rebounding him, and, as always, just murdering him in FG% efficiency. The reality was, Wilt was by FAR, the best center on the planet in 68-69. There was only one man who could contain him,...and that was Van Breda Kolff.Do you think a different coach (Hannum if he stayed, or someone else) could've made Wilt/Baylor work?


As for 69-70, I think there were two main factors that re-energized Wilt going into that season. First, his new coach, Joe Mullaney, immediately asked Chamberlain to become the focal point of the offense again. And secondly, the arrival of rookie Lew Alcindor. And there was no question about it, either. Chamberlain was off to one of his finest seasons ever, even at age 33, in those first nine games (which included a domination of Alcindor in one of them...the only H2H between the two, before Wilt shredded his knee.)Was he still in his offensive prime at this point (pre-injury_? Also, how was the low-post/high-post breakdown this season (again, before going down)?


And I doubt you have ever read anything from either of those two clowns PRAISING Wilt's play in leading a COMEBACK from a first-round, 3-1 series deficit, with three straight dominating games of 36-14 (10 blocks); a QUAD double of 12-26-11-11; and a game seven of 30-27-6 with 11 blocks.How much did the injury take away from him, later that season? Do you think he got anything back defensively, in his final three seasons? Did he lose anything? Or was he the same (ability-wise)?


And the fact was, Wilt's 48-34 Lakers were solid under-dogs going into the Finals against the 60-22 Knicks. NY had a loaded and deep lineup, and they had the reigning MVP, Willis Reed, at his peak. Amazingly, a laterally-limited Wilt battled Reed to a 2-2 draw in their first four games of that series (a 2-2 series...which, BTW, was already better than Alcindor's 56-26 Bucks, who had been blown out in the EDF's by the Knicks, 4-1.)Did Wilt have issues with Reed defensively before the injury? If not, do you think if he doesn't get hurt, he dominates the matchup? How do his final four seasons play out if he isn't injured (assume he still retires after 72-73)?


Offensively, Wilt was never the same after that injury. He lost a lot of his lateral mobility (although very little of his vertical leaping ability.) And in his own words, he was a physical wreck in the 70-71 season. However, even he was pleasantly surprised by the fact that his arthritis actually seemed to clear up before his 71-72 season.I admittedly wasn't aware that the arthritis was that bad in 70-71. So was he back to his peak defensive ability in 71-72 and 72-73? If not, how far off was he?


And, had their been a DPOY award in that 71-72 season, Chamberlain would have been a unanimous pick. His new coach, Bill Sharman brought in a new mentality, and with Wilt's defense, rebounding, and outlet passes, the realtively old Laker team just ran the NBA to death that season. I'd probably agree with this, potentially in a few other seasons as well. In which seasons would you give him DPOY?


And then Chamberlain just completely took over the Finals. While West was puking all over the floor in that series, Chamberlain shelled the entire NY frontline, and ran away with the FMVP. IMHO, this might have been Wilt's greatest season. For the first time in his career, he was no longer considered the best player on the planet, and then to pull a "Russell" on Kareem, and just reduce him to a shot-jacking brick-layer, was perhaps his finest moment.What specifically did the arthritis letting allow him to do differently? How much do you attribute to Sharman? Any other factors other than getting healthy and the coaching?


He continued to be an elite player in his last season, at age 36. He would finish 4th in MVP voting, lead the league in rebounding, was voted first team all-defense (again...and ahead of players like Cowens, Lanier, Thurmond, and KAJ), set a FG% mark that will probably never be broken, led his team to a 60-22 record, and then to yet another Finals (his 4th in five seasons in LA.) And in the process, he just murdered a Thurmond, who had battered KAJ yet again in the playoffs (and sent the heavily-favored Bucks packing.) And while he was not great in the Finals, his team lost four straight games in the last minute, and he was clearly LA's best player in the clinching loss. In his very last game, Wilt hung a 23 point game, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds.I know that Wilt was surprised they got past the Bulls that playoffs, I think he actually said they were better than the Knicks. I'm wondering, what would Wilt or the team had to have done differently to prevail against the New York that Finals?

[LAZERUSS]

Just had a chance to reread this. I have some questions, if you don't mind (apologies for having so many, I just want to learn more about this part of Wilt's career):


Could you give me a rough breakdown of how much of his time he spent in the low post vs the high post over the years? Don't need percentages, just want to learn more about the gradual shift (I'd thought it was abrupt and sudden previously).

Was he still in his offensive/defensive primes? If not, how far removed was he from each?

Same as above, was he still in his defensive prime?

Do you think a different coach (Hannum if he stayed, or someone else) could've made Wilt/Baylor work?

Was he still in his offensive prime at this point (pre-injury_? Also, how was the low-post/high-post breakdown this season (again, before going down)?

How much did the injury take away from him, later that season? Do you think he got anything back defensively, in his final three seasons? Did he lose anything? Or was he the same (ability-wise)?

Did Wilt have issues with Reed defensively before the injury? If not, do you think if he doesn't get hurt, he dominates the matchup? How do his final four seasons play out if he isn't injured (assume he still retires after 72-73)?

I admittedly wasn't aware that the arthritis was that bad in 70-71. So was he back to his peak defensive ability in 71-72 and 72-73? If not, how far off was he?

I'd probably agree with this, potentially in a few other seasons as well. In which seasons would you give him DPOY?

What specifically did the arthritis letting allow him to do differently? How much do you attribute to Sharman? Any other factors other than getting healthy and the coaching?

I know that Wilt was surprised they got past the Bulls that playoffs, I think he actually said they were better than the Knicks. I'm wondering, what would Wilt or the team had to have done differently to prevail against the New York that Finals?

LOL.

I tell you what, give me some time to respond, and I promise I will answer them as best as I can.

Having said that, IMHO, Chamberlain's offensive peak was probably either 65-66 or 66-67, and perhaps even 67-68 (but he was slowed by some nagging injuries.). Now, his 66-67 scoring numbers were way down, but as you know, his efficiency was off the charts. And he still put up the high game in the NBA that season (58 points on 26-34 from the field.) And in his 67-68 season, in which he led the league in assists, he still put up games of 52, 53, 53, and 68 points.

But, still, it id difficult to pin-point his offensive peak, because, early in his career, he was more mobile, and had better range (which may have made him even more unstoppable.) And he almost always had huge games or post-season series in his first seven seasons (his "scoring" seasons.)

Defensive peak? Probably from 63-64 to 67-68. But, that is like asking you to pick out Russell's defensive peak, though. Russell was simply great defensively nearly every season he played. (Same with Wilt's offense, at least up until his injury.)

Anyway, while I take some time to answer your questions (and these are just my opinions, of course), how about YOU give me your opinions, based on your research. And, no one here is going to "out-research" you. You have become THE source for nearly all statistical research, at least in the 60's and 70's (and you are THE expert on the Wilt-Russell matchups.)

[fpliii]

LOL.

I tell you what, give me some time to respond, and I promise I will answer them as best as I can.

Having said that, IMHO, Chamberlain's offensive peak was probably either 65-66 or 66-67, and perhaps even 67-68 (but he was slowed by some nagging injuries.). Now, his 66-67 scoring numbers were way down, but as you know, his efficiency was off the charts. And he still put up the high game in the NBA that season (58 points on 26-34 from the field.) And in his 67-68 season, in which he led the league in assists, he still put up games of 52, 53, 53, and 68 points.

But, still, it id difficult to pin-point his offensive peak, because, early in his career, he was more mobile, and had better range (which may have made him even more unstoppable.) And he almost always had huge games or post-season series in his first seven seasons (his "scoring" seasons.)

Defensive peak? Probably from 63-64 to 67-68. But, that is like asking you to pick out Russell's defensive peak, though. Russell was simply great defensively nearly every season he played. (Same with Wilt's offense, at least up until his injury.)

Anyway, while I take some time to answer your questions (and these are just my opinions, of course), how about YOU give me your opinions, based on your research. And, no one here is going to "out-research" you. You have become THE source for nearly all statistical research, at least in the 60's and 70's (and you are THE expert on the Wilt-Russell matchups.)
lol there's no hurry, just wondering about a few things stylistically. At the moment, I'm just really curious about the high post/low post breakdown.

59-60
60-61
61-62
62-63
63-64
64-65 SFW
64-65 PHI
65-66
66-67
67-68
68-69
69-70 pre-injury
69-70 post-injury
70-71
71-72
72-73

Could you split these into maybe three groups:

Mostly Low Post

Mostly High Post

High Post and Low Post

Sorry if it's an unusual request, just trying to figure this out.

One other thing, I think PHILA and CavsFTW have mentioned that Wilt stopped using his fadeaway as often at some point in 66-67. Did this coincide with his not playing as much in the low post?

Also, in 63-64 with Hannum, did he play out of the high post? Or was that mostly something they explored when they partnered in Philly?

[LAZERUSS]

lol there's no hurry, just wondering about a few things stylistically. At the moment, I'm just really curious about the high post/low post breakdown.

59-60
60-61
61-62
62-63
63-64
64-65 SFW
64-65 PHI
65-66
66-67
67-68
68-69
69-70 pre-injury
69-70 post-injury
70-71
71-72
72-73

Could you split these into maybe three groups:

Mostly Low Post

Mostly High Post

High Post and Low Post

Sorry if it's an unusual request, just trying to figure this out.

One other thing, I think PHILA and CavsFTW have mentioned that Wilt stopped using his fadeaway as often at some point in 66-67. Did this coincide with his not playing as much in the low post?

Also, in 63-64 with Hannum, did he play out of the high post? Or was that mostly something they explored when they partnered in Philly?

I think the high-post stuff is exaggerated. Yes, he did, and could, play the high post, but he was still a low-block guy for the vast majority of those seasons. In fact, in the very limited footage that exists from those years ('64 and '67), Chamberlain is still almost exclusively playing off the low-block, and usually the left side.

VBK DID ask Wilt to play the high post, and it was a bust. And again, in the footage that exists from the '69 Finals, Wilt isn't playing much at the top. But one thing was clear, he wasn't touching the ball much either. In fact, when Russell picks up his 5th personal foul, the Lakers immediately go into Wilt, and he goes right around Russell's "matador" defense, for an easy layin. I can't recall now, but I don't think he touched the ball on the offensive end the rest of the game.

[CavaliersFTW]

I think the high-post stuff is exaggerated. Yes, he did, and could, play the high post, but he was still a low-block guy for the vast majority of those seasons. In fact, in the very limited footage that exists from those years ('64 and '67), Chamberlain is still almost exclusively playing off the low-block, and usually the left side.

VBK DID ask Wilt to play the high post, and it was a bust. And again, in the footage that exists from the '69 Finals, Wilt isn't playing much at the top. But one thing was clear, he wasn't touching the ball much either. In fact, when Russell picks up his 5th personal foul, the Lakers immediately go into Wilt, and he goes right around Russell's "matador" defense, for an easy layin. I can't recall now, but I don't think he touched the ball on the offensive end the rest of the game.
You're right, Chamberlain mostly played the lowpost - he came out to the high post rarely on film. When he did, it was almost always leading to a pass or some sort of P&R or give and go. In college he would score from the high post too but he never really intended to shoot from the high post in the NBA from what I can watch on film. He plays the middle of the key a lot and the baseline, those are his two favorite spots. Either side of the floor too, though he tends to play on the left side more often than the right side probably in part because he has his fade-away from that side and also in part because that's the traditional side centers play on (A forward traditionally wants the right side open for a drive).

[CavaliersFTW]

I think the high-post stuff is exaggerated. Yes, he did, and could, play the high post, but he was still a low-block guy for the vast majority of those seasons. In fact, in the very limited footage that exists from those years ('64 and '67), Chamberlain is still almost exclusively playing off the low-block, and usually the left side.

VBK DID ask Wilt to play the high post, and it was a bust. And again, in the footage that exists from the '69 Finals, Wilt isn't playing much at the top. But one thing was clear, he wasn't touching the ball much either. In fact, when Russell picks up his 5th personal foul, the Lakers immediately go into Wilt, and he goes right around Russell's "matador" defense, for an easy layin. I can't recall now, but I don't think he touched the ball on the offensive end the rest of the game.
He plays middle of the key, he doesn't go out to the top I just skimmed through that footage tonight. In the '69 ASG which is full, Chamberlain plays about half the game I think. Anyways he goes out to the top maybe a handful of times and it always seems to be for the purpose of helping recover a loose ball or assisting ball movement, maybe a screen etc. I recall two attempted assists by him from the high post in the '69 ASG both got botched as the cutting man he passed too (I think it was Baylor both times) lost the ball.

[GoranDragon]

Wilt had no decent competition in his position back then. All he had to do was score on short white guys.:facepalm

Adjusted for pt inflation, Carmelo 62pt game would roughly equate to a 90pt game in Wilt's era.

[fpliii]

I think the high-post stuff is exaggerated. Yes, he did, and could, play the high post, but he was still a low-block guy for the vast majority of those seasons. In fact, in the very limited footage that exists from those years ('64 and '67), Chamberlain is still almost exclusively playing off the low-block, and usually the left side.

VBK DID ask Wilt to play the high post, and it was a bust. And again, in the footage that exists from the '69 Finals, Wilt isn't playing much at the top. But one thing was clear, he wasn't touching the ball much either. In fact, when Russell picks up his 5th personal foul, the Lakers immediately go into Wilt, and he goes right around Russell's "matador" defense, for an easy layin. I can't recall now, but I don't think he touched the ball on the offensive end the rest of the game.


You're right, Chamberlain mostly played the lowpost - he came out to the high post rarely on film. When he did, it was almost always leading to a pass or some sort of P&R or give and go. In college he would score from the high post too but he never really intended to shoot from the high post in the NBA from what I can watch on film. He plays the middle of the key a lot and the baseline, those are his two favorite spots. Either side of the floor too, though he tends to play on the left side more often than the right side probably in part because he has his fade-away from that side and also in part because that's the traditional side centers play on (A forward traditionally wants the right side open for a drive).


He plays middle of the key, he doesn't go out to the top I just skimmed through that footage tonight. In the '69 ASG which is full, Chamberlain plays about half the game I think. Anyways he goes out to the top maybe a handful of times and it always seems to help recover a loose ball or assist ball movement etc. I recall two attempted assists by him from the high post in the '69 ASG both got botched as the cutting man he passed too (I think it was Baylor both times) lost the ball.

Thanks guys, I'll have to do more research I think.

[Marchesk]

Wilt had no decent competition in his position back then. All he had to do was score on short white guys.:facepalm

Adjusted for pt inflation, Carmelo 62pt game would roughly equate to a 90pt game in Wilt's era.

http://nimg.sulekha.com/sports/original700/lebron-james-jose-juan-barea-2011-5-31-22-50-43.jpg

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt had no decent competition in his position back then. All he had to do was score on short white guys.:facepalm

Adjusted for pt inflation, Carmelo 62pt game would roughly equate to a 90pt game in Wilt's era.

Two can play that game, my friend.


Think about this...adjust Wilt's NBA down to 2014 levels, and he would STILL be averaging 42.6 ppg in TODAY's NBA. Go ahead...do the math.

I'll do it for you. The simplified version...

Chamberlain's 61-62 NBA averaged 118.8 ppg. Today's NBA is averaging 100.3 ppg. Divide 100.3 / 118.8 and you get .844. Multiply Wilt's 50.4 ppg * .844, and you would get 42.6 ppg.

And don't get me started with "possessions" either. First of all, no one really knows what the real "pace" was in 61-62, and secondly, if you adjust for possessions, then you have to also adjust for eFG%'s.

[fpliii]

Two can play that game, my friend.


Think about this...adjust Wilt's NBA down to 2014 levels, and he would STILL be averaging 42.6 ppg in TODAY's NBA. Go ahead...do the math.

I'll do it for you. The simplified version...

Chamberlain's 61-62 NBA averaged 118.8 ppg. Today's NBA is averaging 100.3 ppg. Divide 100.3 / 118.8 and you get .844. Multiply Wilt's 50.4 ppg * .844, and you would get 42.6 ppg.
Didn't we determine that you can't linearly scale down FGA with pace, because historically starters and stars haven't had their shots greatly reduced with fewer possessions, while bench players have?

The exception obviously being 61-62, because scoring 50ppg was by McGuire's design (source: Pluto's Tall Tales).

I thought I posted that table with guards'/forwards'/centers' TSA. Rebounds will go down yes (due to TSA), and blocks too (since fewer shots are attempted).

[LAZERUSS]

Didn't we determine that you can't linearly scale down FGA with pace, because historically starters and stars haven't had their shots greatly reduced with fewer possessions, while bench players have?

The exception obviously being 61-62, because scoring 50ppg was by McGuire's design (source: Pluto's Tall Tales).

I thought I posted that table with guards'/forwards'/centers' TSA. Rebounds will go down yes (due to TSA), and blocks too (since fewer shots are attempted).

You probably did. But you are way over my head my friend. I can do old school math, and adjust for FGAs, FTAs, RPG, and eFG%'s, which generally level the playing fields, but using advanced math...I will be the first to admit, I can't keep up.

I will tell you this...I won't argue with your numbers, though. I know I won't win.

[fpliii]

Right now, based on some quick SI searches, I'm going with the following:

Mostly Low Post
59-60
60-61
61-62
62-63
63-64
64-65 SFW
64-65 PHI
65-66
69-70 pre-injury

Mostly High Post
68-69

Mixture of High Post and Low Post
66-67
67-68
69-70 post-injury
70-71
71-72
72-73

I'll look into our dumped newspapers when I have a chance and see if I can find anything useful.

Articles:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079351/2/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1125354/7/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075691/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1081687/3/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1081714/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1148042/1/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1148042/2/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079805/1/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1085638/2/index.htm

[LAZERUSS]

Right now, based on some quick SI searches, I'm going with the following:

Mostly Low Post
59-60
60-61
61-62
62-63
63-64
64-65 SFW
64-65 PHI
65-66
69-70 pre-injury

Mostly High Post
68-69

Mixture of High Post and Low Post
66-67
67-68
69-70 post-injury
70-71
71-72
72-73

I'll look into our dumped newspapers when I have a chance and see if I can find anything useful.

Articles:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079351/2/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1125354/7/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075691/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1081687/3/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1081714/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1148042/1/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1148042/2/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079805/1/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1085638/2/index.htm

I think that research is probably 99% accurate...but still a considerably higher percentage of low-post play though, even in those "mixture" seasons....

[fpliii]

I think that research is probably 99% accurate...but still a considerably higher percentage of low-post play though, even in those "mixture" seasons....
I found an interesting quote:

[QUOTE]The high post-low post controversy became famous largely because it was a simple thing that the public could easily grasp. It concerned the fans much more than it did the players. The Lakers have been beaten mostly for old-fashioned technical reasons

[LAZERUSS]

I found an interesting quote:



source: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1082021/3/index.htm

I think it underplays the issue of Wilt playing in the high post stylistically, but the bolded is key. I think in any era, if you want to win with a dominant low-post scorer, you need to have shooters to prevent guys from cheating on defense. I commented on this recently in another thread:



It's fine if your center is primarily a jumpshooter:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1148042/1/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1081687/3/index.htm

but that wasn't Wilt's strength, at least later in his career when he put on muscle (killing his shooting stroke) and just stopped shooting from distance.

Particularly in today's game, I think he'd benefit from the abundance of shooting specialists, and the existence of the three-point line (which unclogs the paint).

Great research, as always. And, it pretty much sums up why VBK didn't succeed. He asked Chamberlain to make the sacrifices, and play a position in which he was destined to fail.

What is interesting, is this article...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1082021/index.htm

As you can see, it broke on 1/27/69.

"The main problem on the court is not that Chamberlain, Baylor, and West do not get the ball enough. It is that Chamberlain will not, or cannot, go to the basket when he gets it."

However, the night before the article hit the newstands, Wilt erupted for 60 points. A few days later he scored 66. In fact, over the course of 17 straight games, from that 1/26 to 2/23, he averaged 31.1 ppg, In addition to those two 60+ point games, he had six more of 30+. Included were games of 35 against Russell (his highest output against Russell since game five of the '66 EDF's), a 23-35 game against Thurmond (on 70% shooting), and a 31 to 14 beatdown of Willis Reed (who had recently become NY's starting center after trading Bellamy away.)

And then, all of a sudden, in LA's last 15 games...he dropped back down to an even 16.0 pppg. (He did pound Reed again in the last game of the season, with a 25 point game on 11-15 shooting, though.)

And, of course, in the playoffs, he had, by far, his worst scoring post-season of his career to that point. In fact, his 13.9 ppg post-season would be the second worst of his entire career, and only his very last post-season was lower. Granted, he had to battle both Thurmond and Russell, but as he had proved in that 17 game span, he was certainly capable of scoring against both.

And to be honest, I can't recall much of that post-season, either. But what was obvious in game seven of the Finals, was that he just was not touching the ball.


Also interesting was that the very next season, his new coach, Joe Mullaney came to Wilt and asked him to become a scorer again. And, as I have already posted earlier (and you know), Wilt immediately went on a tear, and was leading the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%) when he shredded his knee. And again, that ppg was not aided by one huge game, but rather games of 33, 35, 37, 38 (against Unseld), 42, and 43 points...as well as a 25 point, 9-14 shooting, domination of Alcindor in their first meeting. Oh, and this too, was interesting. West was second in scoring at the time, at 30.8 ppg. Why is that important? Because, after Chamberlain's injury, he would go on to lead the league in scoring, at 31.2 ppg. So it appears that Wilt's scoring or complete absence, had no effect at all on West's scoring.

Just food for thought...

[moe94]

Test.

http://i.imgur.com/VpwOJOs.gif

New generation getting blown the **** out.

[Psileas]

Not exactly relevant, but here's a gem I'd forgotten (taken from http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075691/3/index.htm):

[QUOTE]Baltimore's Terry Dischinger has a recurring nightmare. It was born the recent night the Warriors beat the Bullets 120-118. Dischinger got away from his man and went in for the last

[LAZERUSS]

Not exactly relevant, but here's a gem I'd forgotten (taken from http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075691/3/index.htm):

I have read at least some, who have claimed that Wilt didn't play defense early in his career, and yet, even the Boston players acknowledged Chamberlain's defensive brilliance in the '62 EDF's. And he was ALWAYS limiting the efficiencies of his opposing centers, as well...and doing so while probably blocking 10 shots per game.

I am not claiming that he was on Russell's level back then, but he was very under-rated. And speaking of that, I stand by my assertion that Chamberlain was Russell's equal on the defensive end from the mid-60's on. Maybe not in terms of floor coverage, but in terms of defensive impact, he was. And again, he was DRAMATICALLY reducing the shooting of his peers. Walt Bellamy was a great example. In the 67-68 regular season, Bellamy shot .541 from the floor. Against Chamberlain in the playoffs... .421 (oh, and Wilt averaged 25 ppg on a .584 FG% against him.)

And then later on, we witnessed an old Chamberlain just rendering a peak Kareem to a shot-jacking brick-layer in the post-season (and in every regular season series except in '72, when his Lakers steam-rolled the Bucks 4-1.)

I don't think there is any doubt that Chamberlain stands as the second greatest defensive presence in NBA history.

[SpanishACB]

in other news:

CavsfansFTW has just tied the rest of ISH in total Wilt Chamberlain threads made

[CavaliersFTW]

in other news:

CavsfansFTW has just tied the rest of ISH in total Wilt Chamberlain threads made
Probably true :roll:

[CavaliersFTW]

Our answer has arrived! Lebron James 61 points on 3/3/14!

THE REST OF THE NBA IS NOW TIED WITH WILT CHAMBERLAIN!


:party: :djparty :dancin

[SilkkTheShocker]

LeBron already tied Wilt in rings. And he isn't playing in a pathetic era like Wilt.

[LAZERUSS]

How about some of these facts...

Chamberlain had two straight games, in two straight nights, of 78 and 61 points. And another separate run of games of 63 and 61.

Then he had THREE STRAIGHT 60+ games of 73, 62, and 62. The first two of which came on back-to-back nights, and against Bellamy and Russell (on 29-48 and 27-45 shooting respectively.)

And how about FOUR IN A ROW? Games of 67, 65, 61, and 100 (and then 58.)


There have been SIX 60+ point games in NBA history, in which the player shot over 70% in them. David Thompson has one, 73 points on 28-38 shooting (.737); Karl Malone has one, 61 points on 21-26 shooting (.808); and Wilt has the other FOUR, 70 on 27-38 (.711); 68 on 30-40 (.750); 67 on 27-37 (.730), and then the HIGHEST FG% ever in a 60+ point game (his LAST BTW), of 66 points on 29-35 shooting (.829 .)


In 27 of his 32 60+ point games, Wilt had 20+ rebounds, including EIGHT of 30+, and even a 78-43 game.

BTW, Chamberlain's LAST TWO 60+ games came in his 68-69 season, which was just the year before Kareem came into the league. KAJ would play 20 years in the NBA (FOUR IN the Wilt-era), and his HIGH game was 55 points.