What does it mean for Lebron's legacy if the Heat make the finals this year and lose?

[BlazerRed]

He'll be 2-3 in the finals. Losing record. Jordan was 6-0 and the Heat are one of the most stacked teams in history.

[DaSeba5]

Making the Finals is still an accomplishment. Making it 4 straight times only boosts him, but really I think he stays where most people have him. It doesn't hurt his legacy like you are implying. He would definitely have no chance of ever surpassing Jordan, but he would be up there with all the time greats (if he's not already).

[BlazerRed]

Making the Finals is still an accomplishment. Making it 4 straight times only boosts him, but really I think he stays where most people have him. It doesn't hurt his legacy like you are implying. He would definitely have no chance of ever surpassing Jordan, but he would be up there with all the time greats (if he's not already).
LOL you're saying having a losing record in the finals wouldn't hurt his legacy? Get real. Kobe would stay ahead of him if he loses this year.

[Ancient Legend]

It would mean the end of ISH as we know it. It would be overrun by trolls like the oncoming wall of night. Mordor Wins.

[Illuminati]

Making 4 straight Finals appearances is an accomplishment in it self. If I recall, only Russell's Celtics have done it.

And if the Heat make it to the Finals, they're winning. The Pacers are the only real threat to them.

[DaSeba5]

LOL you're saying having a losing record in the finals wouldn't hurt his legacy? Get real. Kobe would stay ahead of him if he loses this year.

Making the Finals 5 times is an accomplishment. You act like losing in the Finals would drop him out of the top 15 or something. Get real. LeBron's legacy is already set in stone; at worst he is a top 15 player (if not better). Now it's about being with the elite of the elite.

[TheReal Kendall]

Making the Finals is still an accomplishment. Making it 4 straight times only boosts him, but really I think he stays where most people have him. It doesn't hurt his legacy like you are implying. He would definitely have no chance of ever surpassing Jordan, but he would be up there with all the time greats (if he's not already).

This.

And most people already got Bron ahead of Kobe now.

[Ancient Legend]

As long as LeBron gets one more Finals MVP be it this year or in the future, he will never be ranked below Kobe,

[BlazerRed]

Making 4 straight Finals appearances is an accomplishment in it self. If I recall, only Russell's Celtics have done it.

And if the Heat make it to the Finals, they're winning. The Pacers are the only real threat to them.
So you're saying Lebron's legacy was that second was good enough? :lol

[Mr. Jabbar]

hurt a lot, if he wins it improves his record as a front runner. he needs to depart that lose-lose situation that is south beach and prove himself with lesser help. he needs the respect of his doubters like kobe did if he ever wishes to enter the nba olympus

[funnystuff]

Jordan is 6-15

[moe94]

4 Finals in a row

But yes, look at the negative aspects.

[secund2nun]

LOL you're saying having a losing record in the finals wouldn't hurt his legacy? Get real. Kobe would stay ahead of him if he loses this year.

Losing before the finals is somehow better than losing in the finals? That makes zero sense.

[BlazerRed]

As long as LeBron gets one more Finals MVP be it this year or in the future, he will never be ranked below Kobe,
I agree, but right now he's still behind and losing this year would set him well back. Maybe not necessarily knock him back places, but he's have a lot more ground to make up to get any higher.

[JohnFreeman]

Making the Finals is still an accomplishment. Making it 4 straight times only boosts him, but really I think he stays where most people have him. It doesn't hurt his legacy like you are implying. He would definitely have no chance of ever surpassing Jordan, but he would be up there with all the time greats (if he's not already).
This. IT would be worst for Durant to not win a ring or make it to the Finals

[Joyner82reload]

Assuming they lose to OKC, as they will likely win the West, it would hurt his legacy. He would no longer be considered the league's best by anyone and would be considered

[Fire Colangelo]

Depends on how he plays in the finals, if he plays like a ***** and average like 18 points a game then yes, it hurts his legacy.

[JohnFreeman]

I agree, but right now he's still behind and losing this year would set him well back. Maybe not necessarily knock him back places, but he's have a lot more ground to make up to get any higher.
I don't understand the logic of Kobe being better? LeBron has 4 MVPS and the same number of FMVPS. Not LeBrons fault he couldn't play with prime Shaq

[Magic 32]

I don't understand the logic of Kobe being better? LeBron has 4 MVPS and the same number of FMVPS.

http://i26.tinypic.com/t0npxs.jpg


Not LeBrons fault he couldn't play with prime Shaq

http://cdn.necolebitchie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Chris-Bosh-Dwyane-Wade-and-Lebron-James.jpg

[Uncle Drew]

ISH, where losing in the Conference Finals is better for your legacy than losing in the Finals.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Making 4 straight Finals appearances is an accomplishment in it self. If I recall, only Russell's Celtics have done it.

And if the Heat make it to the Finals, they're winning. The Pacers are the only real threat to them.
Birds Celtics and Magic/KAJ Lakers both did

Lebron already has no chance of surpassing MJ, KAJ, Shaq or Russell. His ceiling is 5th best ever.

[JohnFreeman]

ISH, where losing in the Conference Finals is better for your legacy than losing in the Finals.
Kobe getting swept in 2011 takes a hit to his legacy than. Only have Kobe in top 25 anyway

[GOATbe]

It closes the gates permanently for top 15 all time consideration. He was a top 15 player at one point but Melo has pushed him further down the list. If this guy doesn't win on the most stacked team of all time there's really no way he can be a top 15 player or even top 20.

-Losing record in the finals
-Couldn't win with the most stacked team of all time
-The 3rd-4th best player in the league whilst still in his prime and arguably a 2nd option to Chris Bosh.

That's not top 20 material.

[oh the horror]

I'm sorry folks but when it's looked back on, most aren't going to say "well he made 4 straight finals and that's something".


You dudes know how it goes.

[JohnFreeman]

It closes the gates permanently for top 15 all time consideration. He was a top 15 player at one point but Melo has pushed him further down the list. If this guy doesn't win on the most stacked team of all time there's really no way he can be a top 15 player or even top 20.

Losing record in the finals
Couldn't win with the most stacked team of all time
The 3rd-4th best player in the league whilst still in his prime and arguably a 2nd option to Chris Bosh.

That's not top 20 material.
Melo who has no MVPs,FMVPS or rings? No one is buying your schtick you f*cking loser

[oh the horror]

It closes the gates permanently for top 15 all time consideration. He was a top 15 player at one point but Melo has pushed him further down the list. If this guy doesn't win on the most stacked team of all time there's really no way he can be a top 15 player or even top 20.

Losing record in the finals
Couldn't win with the most stacked team of all time
The 3rd-4th best player in the league whilst still in his prime and arguably a 2nd option to Chris Bosh.

That's not top 20 material.



You just randomly make shit up. Don't you?

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Let me get this straight. Lebron's already ahead of Kobe but if he loses this year, Kobe will over take him? :wtf:

OP showing once again why he's one of the least respected posters here.

[BlazerRed]

It closes the gates permanently for top 15 all time consideration. He was a top 15 player at one point but Melo has pushed him further down the list. If this guy doesn't win on the most stacked team of all time there's really no way he can be a top 15 player or even top 20.

Losing record in the finals
Couldn't win with the most stacked team of all time
The 3rd-4th best player in the league whilst still in his prime and arguably a 2nd option to Chris Bosh.

That's not top 20 material.
Ok this might be taking it a step far.. Melo? LOL. Lebron won't be a lock top 10 without another finals MVP and ring.. And if he loses this year he's definitely out of the discussion. He's jostling for lock top 10 right now, he'll get into maybe 8th with another ring.

[JohnFreeman]

Ok this might be taking it a step far.. Melo? LOL. Lebron won't be a lock top 10 without another finals MVP and ring.. And if he loses this year he's definitely out of the discussion. He's jostling for lock top 10 right now, he'll get into maybe 8th with another ring.
If Kobe is in the top 10, LeBron is as well.

[MMM]

Making 4 straight Finals appearances is an accomplishment in it self. If I recall, only Russell's Celtics have done it.

And if the Heat make it to the Finals, they're winning. The Pacers are the only real threat to them.

Lakers did it from 82-85
The Celtics did it from 84-87

Both teams finished 2-2. As u can see its difficult to put it together over such a long stretch.

[BlazerRed]

Let me get this straight. Lebron's already ahead of Kobe but if he loses this year, Kobe will over take him? :wtf:

OP showing once again why he's one of the least respected posters here.
No, that's just you being an idiot. I never said Lebron was in front of Kobe. He's just behind Kobe currently. Jostling for 10th. Kobe for me is about 8th.

[JohnFreeman]

No, that's just you being an idiot. I never said Lebron was in front of Kobe. He's just behind Kobe currently. Jostling for 10th. Kobe for me is about 8th.
Explain why Kobe is ahead of LeBron please.

[GOATbe]

Explain why Kobe is ahead of LeBron please.
:facepalm

[BlazerRed]

Explain why Kobe is ahead of LeBron please.
For one, Kobe is a winner. 4 rings. How many times has he lost? Lebron only has 2 rings on one of the most stacked teams in history. Media voted MVP's from ESPN riding Lebron's jockstrap don't mean jack.

[shaq2000]

Not much to me.

3peating this year: boost to his legacy, secured top 10 GOAT spot
Losing in the finals: basically no change to legacy, stays 12-16
Not making the finals: damaging to his legacy, hard to rank

[JohnFreeman]

For one, Kobe is a winner. 4 rings. How many times has he lost? Lebron only has 2 rings on one of the most stacked teams in history. Media voted MVP's from ESPN riding Lebron's jockstrap don't mean jack.
So because you don't like him he is the worst player? Got it.
Both players have 2 rings as the man and LeBron has 4 MVPS to 1...I can see who is better.

[Kingwillball]

Making 4 straight Finals appearances is an accomplishment in it self. If I recall, only Russell's Celtics have done it.

And if the Heat make it to the Finals, they're winning. The Pacers are the only real threat to them.


Agreed

[moe94]

For one, Kobe is a winner. 4 rings. How many times has he lost? Lebron only has 2 rings on one of the most stacked teams in history. Media voted MVP's from ESPN riding Lebron's jockstrap don't mean jack.

Bosh + Wade > Shaq?

Cool story.

[shaq2000]

For one, Kobe is a winner. 4 rings. How many times has he lost? Lebron only has 2 rings on one of the most stacked teams in history. Media voted MVP's from ESPN riding Lebron's jockstrap don't mean jack.

5 actually, not 4.

[BlazerRed]

So because you don't like him he is the worst player? Got it.
Both players have 2 rings as the man and LeBron has 4 MVPS to 1...I can see who is better.
Lebron has 2 losses, 'as the man'. A loss this year would make it 3. I counted for you because I figured someone of your intelligence level would need the extra have. You're welcome.

[plowking]

OP is butthurt lol.

[Illuminati]

GOATbe is another ripthekik alt.

[JohnFreeman]

Lebron has 2 losses, 'as the man'. A loss this year would make it 3. I counted for you because I figured someone of your intelligence level would need the extra have. You're welcome.
Kobe has 5 rings by the way...I suppose you only started watching basketball this year so it's alright.

[Micku]

Lakers did it from 82-85
The Celtics did it from 84-87

Both teams finished 2-2. As u can see its difficult to put it together over such a long stretch.

Yeah. It's interesting because of the teams that they lost to. They lost to great teams in the finals. Except for the 84 Lakers because they kind'a beat themselves. And I think the 85 Celts was better than the 84 Celts, but Bird got hurt.

But the Lakers lost to 83 76ers and 84 Celts. The Celts only lost to the Lakers. 85 and 87.

[russwest0]

Kobe has 5 rings by the way...I suppose you only started watching basketball this year so it's alright.

You actually count 2002 as a ring?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Kobe has 4 rings, D Wade has 1, LeBron has 1

[Magic 32]

Both players have 2 rings as the man and LeBron has 4 MVPS to 1...I can see who is better.

A smart and easy way to get many regular MVP's...

= make two top 10 players your personal slaves during your own peak.

Smart move by Lebron.

[JohnFreeman]

And OP if you are talking about undeserving awards, let's talk about Kobe's defensive selections.
Hear is Phil Jackson for you:

[BlazerRed]

Kobe has 5 rings by the way...I suppose you only started watching basketball this year so it's alright.
Oh you're right 3+2=5. Well done Johnny :applause: thanks for helping my argument :cheers: 5 > 2.

[JohnFreeman]

russwest0 and magic 32 are here. Goodbye thread

[plowking]

Does anyone seriously think OP is a Blazer fan?
Hes backing up a Laker player in an arguments for one... That sound like a Blazer fan? Secondly, hes most definitely more a Thunder/Durant fan... Thirdly, hes RG on a different account and hopped on a different bandwagon.

lol...

[JohnFreeman]

Does anyone seriously think OP is a Blazer fan?
Hes backing up a Laker player in an arguments for one... That sound like a Blazer fan? Secondly, hes most definitely more a Thunder/Durant fan... Thirdly, hes RG on a different account and hopped on a different bandwagon.

lol...
Yeah everyone knows. Who supports a superstar who plays in the same conference and is your own teams competition?

[BlazerRed]

Yeah everyone knows. Who supports a superstar who plays in the same conference and is your own teams competition?
Coming from someone who claims to be Kings fan but is in every thread that mentions Lebron or Durant :roll: you are even watching a Thunder game the other day when a Kings game was on :facepalm quit being a fool.

[moe94]

Blazer is putting on the GOAT act if he's not a Blazer fan. You guys are just mad he supports Durant and hates LeBron. He's definitely about that Blazer life.

[BlazerRed]

Blazer is putting on the GOAT act if he's not a Blazer fan. You guys are just mad he supports Durant and hates LeBron. He's definitely about that Blazer life.
**** man I don't know whether or not to love you or loathe you. Half the shit you say I agree with, half I don't. Stop being so polarising. Still, it's nice to have so many people care about me and who I support on this site. Thanks for the love InsideHoops :cheers:

[plowking]

Blazer is putting on the GOAT act if he's not a Blazer fan. You guys are just mad he supports Durant and hates LeBron. He's definitely about that Blazer life.

Not really. Day one since he started posting was picking fights with Heat fans in game threads, supporting Durant, and then all of a sudden he changed his location, avy, etc. lol...

Dude has the same layout for username, avy and titles as RG. Posts like him too. Would rather argue than actually talk basketball most of the time. :oldlol:

[JohnFreeman]

Coming from someone who claims to be Kings fan but is in every thread that mentions Lebron or Durant :roll: you are even watching a Thunder game the other day when a Kings game was on :facepalm quit being a fool.
So only Heat fans and OKC fans are allowed to discuss those two players? Sorry didn't get that memo. I couldn't watch the Kings game, which I said on the day. Next.

[DMV2]

Chamberlain is 2-5 in Finals series and he's still Top 10 all-time.
West has about 8 or 9 Finals series loses, yet he's still Top 15 all-time.

Magic played with the greatest center in KAJ, along with one of the most stacked teams in NBA history and is still the greatest PG and Top 5 All-time.

Same can be said for KAJ. Played with the greatest PG, most stacked team, ect and is still the greatest center and possible #1 or #2 all-time.

But LeBron with a losing Finals series will hurt his legacy?
Playing with Wade and BOSH also hurts his legacy?

:oldlol:

[JohnFreeman]

Chamberlain is 2-5 in Finals series and he's still Top 10 all-time.
West has about 8 or 9 Finals series loses, yet he's still Top 15 all-time.

Magic played with the greatest center in KAJ, along with one of the most stacked teams in NBA history and is still the greatest PG and Top 5 All-time.

Same can be said for KAJ. Played with the greatest PG, most stacked team, ect and is still the greatest center and possible #1 or #2 all-time.

But LeBron with a losing Finals series will hurt his legacy?
Playing with Wade and BOSH also hurts his legacy?

:oldlol:
Ridiculous isn't it?

[moe94]

Dude has the same layout for username, avy and titles as RG. Posts like him too. Would rather argue than actually talk basketball most of the time. :oldlol:

I've been called RG more times than I can remember. Basically, anytime anyone on this board is hated, they get labeled an alt of RG. :oldlol:

[BlazerRed]

Not really. Day one since he started posting was picking fights with Heat fans in game threads, supporting Durant, and then all of a sudden he changed his location, avy, etc. lol...

Dude has the same layout for username, avy and titles as RG. Posts like him too. Would rather argue than actually talk basketball most of the time. :oldlol:
Changed my location? :biggums: nikka please I've had the same location since I signed up.. And my original avy was of Mount Hood then Lillard. Next you'll be saying I changed my name too :lol PM me if you want my official bio. I'll even sign out for you :cheers:

[buddha]

Making 4 straight Finals appearances is an accomplishment in it self.

Not when you play in the east with a stacked team. Seriously, think about it for a minute..

[BlazerRed]

I've been called RG more times than I can remember. Basically, anytime anyone on this board is hated, they get labeled an alt of RG. :oldlol:
I've gotten RG a few times too now, that dude really made an impression :roll:

[DMV2]

Not when you play in the east with a stacked team. Seriously, think about it for a minute..
Same way Magic and Kareem made it to 9 Finals in the weak ass 80's West?

[BlazerRed]

Not when you play in the east with a stacked team. Seriously, think about it for a minute..
Not to mention one of the weakest Eastern playoffs in years. Dude had a free ride to the Finals the last few years.

[knicksman]

Not when you play in the east with a stacked team. Seriously, think about it for a minute..


damn these lebron stans have low standards.

[Mure]

Shaq > Bosh/Wade and the rest of the Heat.

[Magic 32]

Shaq > Bosh/Wade and the rest of the Heat.

Peak > 21-23 year old

Having Bosh & Wade as your personal toys during your peak years is pure luxury.

[6 for 24]

Friends of ISH:

In my humble opinion, it means nothing to LeBron's legacy should he lose in the Finals this year. The reason is twofold:

1) This season as a whole has an asterisk (as the great Phil Jackson would say) because it's greatest beacon, Kobe Bean Bryant, is injured. We all know that a healthy Kobe Bryant wins the title each and every year so teams are really only playing for 2nd place. And 2nd place has no bearing on history.

2) LeBron has already lost in the Finals and anyone who has done so does not deserve a legacy PERIOD. For example, Jordan is 6/6 in the Finals and Kobe is 5/5. I am omitting the 2004 debacle because Shaq was clearly out to sabotage Kobe's Finals MVP chances that year, and had he just played team ball the Lakers would have steamrolled the Eastern opposition as they did the previous three times. I am omitting 2008 because that series involved point shaving, or how else could we explain the great Lakers blowing a 24 point lead at home. So 5/5 it is.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

[moe94]

The fertile plains of Mozambiq

I like this guy.

[CelticBaller]

Friends of ISH:

In my humble opinion, it means nothing to LeBron's legacy should he lose in the Finals this year. The reason is twofold:

1) This season as a whole has an asterisk (as the great Phil Jackson would say) because it's greatest beacon, Kobe Bean Bryant, is injured. We all know that a healthy Kobe Bryant wins the title each and every year so teams are really only playing for 2nd place. And 2nd place has no bearing on history.

2) LeBron has already lost in the Finals and anyone who has done so does not deserve a legacy PERIOD. For example, Jordan is 6/6 in the Finals and Kobe is 5/5. I am omitting the 2004 debacle because Shaq was clearly out to sabotage Kobe's Finals MVP chances that year, and had he just played team ball the Lakers would have steamrolled the Eastern opposition as they did the previous three times. I am omitting 2008 because that series involved point shaving, or how else could we explain the great Lakers blowing a 24 point lead at home. So 5/5 it is.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Illuminati]

Friends of ISH:

In my humble opinion, it means nothing to LeBron's legacy should he lose in the Finals this year. The reason is twofold:

1) This season as a whole has an asterisk (as the great Phil Jackson would say) because it's greatest beacon, Kobe Bean Bryant, is injured. We all know that a healthy Kobe Bryant wins the title each and every year so teams are really only playing for 2nd place. And 2nd place has no bearing on history.

2) LeBron has already lost in the Finals and anyone who has done so does not deserve a legacy PERIOD. For example, Jordan is 6/6 in the Finals and Kobe is 5/5. I am omitting the 2004 debacle because Shaq was clearly out to sabotage Kobe's Finals MVP chances that year, and had he just played team ball the Lakers would have steamrolled the Eastern opposition as they did the previous three times. I am omitting 2008 because that series involved point shaving, or how else could we explain the great Lakers blowing a 24 point lead at home. So 5/5 it is.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye
:oldlol:

[KingBeasley08]

Friends of ISH:

In my humble opinion, it means nothing to LeBron's legacy should he lose in the Finals this year. The reason is twofold:

1) This season as a whole has an asterisk (as the great Phil Jackson would say) because it's greatest beacon, Kobe Bean Bryant, is injured. We all know that a healthy Kobe Bryant wins the title each and every year so teams are really only playing for 2nd place. And 2nd place has no bearing on history.

2) LeBron has already lost in the Finals and anyone who has done so does not deserve a legacy PERIOD. For example, Jordan is 6/6 in the Finals and Kobe is 5/5. I am omitting the 2004 debacle because Shaq was clearly out to sabotage Kobe's Finals MVP chances that year, and had he just played team ball the Lakers would have steamrolled the Eastern opposition as they did the previous three times. I am omitting 2008 because that series involved point shaving, or how else could we explain the great Lakers blowing a 24 point lead at home. So 5/5 it is.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye
:applause:

[BlazerRed]

Friends of ISH:

In my humble opinion, it means nothing to LeBron's legacy should he lose in the Finals this year. The reason is twofold:

1) This season as a whole has an asterisk (as the great Phil Jackson would say) because it's greatest beacon, Kobe Bean Bryant, is injured. We all know that a healthy Kobe Bryant wins the title each and every year so teams are really only playing for 2nd place. And 2nd place has no bearing on history.

2) LeBron has already lost in the Finals and anyone who has done so does not deserve a legacy PERIOD. For example, Jordan is 6/6 in the Finals and Kobe is 5/5. I am omitting the 2004 debacle because Shaq was clearly out to sabotage Kobe's Finals MVP chances that year, and had he just played team ball the Lakers would have steamrolled the Eastern opposition as they did the previous three times. I am omitting 2008 because that series involved point shaving, or how else could we explain the great Lakers blowing a 24 point lead at home. So 5/5 it is.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

Hmm, you raise some valid and interesting points Mr Ndiaye.

[GoranDragon]

Friends of ISH:

In my humble opinion, it means nothing to LeBron's legacy should he lose in the Finals this year. The reason is twofold:

1) This season as a whole has an asterisk (as the great Phil Jackson would say) because it's greatest beacon, Kobe Bean Bryant, is injured. We all know that a healthy Kobe Bryant wins the title each and every year so teams are really only playing for 2nd place. And 2nd place has no bearing on history.

2) LeBron has already lost in the Finals and anyone who has done so does not deserve a legacy PERIOD. For example, Jordan is 6/6 in the Finals and Kobe is 5/5. I am omitting the 2004 debacle because Shaq was clearly out to sabotage Kobe's Finals MVP chances that year, and had he just played team ball the Lakers would have steamrolled the Eastern opposition as they did the previous three times. I am omitting 2008 because that series involved point shaving, or how else could we explain the great Lakers blowing a 24 point lead at home. So 5/5 it is.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye
GOAT user name of ISH.:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[6 for 24]

GOAT user name of ISH.:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Thank you. I am sure you agree that title #6 is coming for #24 as soon as the Bean gets healthy.

[moe94]

Thank you. I am sure you agree that title #6 is coming for #24 as soon as the Bean gets healthy.

:roll:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131026094525/fallout/images/7/70/What-a-twist.jpg

[GoranDragon]

Thank you. I am sure you agree that title #6 is coming for #24 as soon as the Bean gets healthy.
I hope that happens.

That way Kobe is 2 FMVP out of 6 rings which makes him a 33.3% alpha and 66.6% beta.

You can get more info about my new GOAT formula here: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323487

[BlazerRed]

I hope that happens.

That way Kobe is 2 FMVP out of 6 rings which makes him a 33.3% alpha and 66.6% beta.

You can get more info about my new GOAT formula here: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323487

Thank you for this revolutionary formula. Getting back to my thread, if Lebron lost this year that would make him 60% beta, 40% alpha.

[GoranDragon]

Thank you for this revolutionary formula. Getting back to my thread, if Lebron lost this year that would make him 60% beta, 40% alpha.
Lebron is currently at a 100% alpha usage rate which is on par with MJ.

If, and that's a HUGE if, he doesn't win a FMVP this season despite another ring, his alpha usage rate will drop to 66.6% which is still dominant.

[BlazerRed]

Lebron is currently at a 100% alpha usage rate which is on par with MJ.

If, and that's a HUGE if, he doesn't win a FMVP this season despite another ring, his alpha usage rate will drop to 66.6% which is still dominant.

Your formula is incorrect. How can one have a positive alpha rating with more losses in the finals as the man than wins? As a scholar, I suggest you revise your formula.

[GoranDragon]

Your formula is incorrect. How can one have a positive alpha rating with more losses in the finals as the man than wins? As a scholar, I suggest you revise your formula.
Formula takes into account success instead of attempts at success. MJ lost to bad boys, Shaq lost to 04 pistons, Duncan lost to Lebron.

Face it, my formula is fool-proof. And it proves that Lebron has a 100% alpha usage rate.

[knicksman]

Lebron has no legacy in the first place.. only idiot fans thinks he has. Losers(AKA betas) will never be winners.

[GoranDragon]

Lebron has no legacy in the first place.. only idiot fans thinks he has. Losers(AKA betas) will never be winners.
Lebron is not a beta. Research and science shows he's has a 100% alpha usage rate.

[knicksman]

Lebron is not a beta. Research and science shows he's has a 100% alpha usage rate.


:oldlol: kid please youre making lebron stans in this forum a joke

[Magic 32]

Lebron is not a beta. Research and science shows he's has a 100% alpha usage rate.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-K-Bt5usLPIA/TVgwr_YJfTI/AAAAAAABAus/VHNwDW2_AcY/s400/jesus-dinosaur.jpg

[GoranDragon]

:oldlol: kid please youre making lebron stans in this forum a joke
Please kind a flaw in my formula. Please.

[Prometheus]

the fallacy that a player is worse for making the finals and losing than not making the finals at all is the most idiotic and incomprehensible bowl of retard soup that I have ever come across. if a guy loses in the first round, that is worse than losing in the finals. if he loses in the conference finals, that is worse than losing in the finals. i sometimes feel like 99% of basketball fans have the reasoning of kindergarteners.

[BlazerRed]

Lebron is not a beta. Research and science shows he's has a 100% alpha usage rate.
I'm sorry but that is just incorrect and I will not hesitate to make the Scientific Board of America aware of your abhorrent use of the word "science" to backup unfounded and incorrect mathematics and research.

[Lebron23]

Nothing. He already has 2 NBA Finals MVP. Same amount of Finals MVP's as Hakeem. Kareem, Bird, and Kobe.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Who would he lose to anyway??:biggums:
durant???:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Bandito]

Please kind a flaw in my formula. Please.
this guy:roll:

[GoranDragon]

Nothing. He already has 2 NBA Finals MVP. Same amount of Finals MVP's as Hakeem. Kareem, Bird, and Kobe.
Kobe needed 5 rings to get 2 FMVP. Math tells us he's a 60% beta.

[jcsrplumply]

It does not mean much, really (in my opinion). I think it depends on the point of view of the individual. It is either good to his legacy because he and his team will achieve an amazing feat, only 2 teams in NBA history have accomplished that (4 straight finals appearances), or some might think it is bad because his NBA Finals win-lose ratio would be lower than 1.

[Leftimage]

He'll be 2-3 in the finals. Losing record. Jordan was 6-0 and the Heat are one of the most stacked teams in history.

It would also mean Lebron pretty much lived in the finals for the gyst of his career; 5 appearances in 10 seasons.

But yeah, it would definitely eliminate him from GOAT contention...

[Trollsmasher]

:lol OP thinking the Heat are losing to a Western team

[GoranDragon]

:lol OP thinking the Heat are losing to a Western team
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[sportjames23]

It would mean the end of ISH as we know it. It would be overrun by trolls like the oncoming wall of night. Mordor Wins.

I say thee nay

http://cdn29.elitedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/richard-sherman-meme-20-600x600-1.jpg

[sportjames23]

Jordan is 6-15


6-0, bitch.

Unless you wanna pull that shit for every other player, too.

[ArbitraryWater]

4 straight finals? wow, move him up couple of spots :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

OP would have Wilt and Jerry West higher all time if they never made the finals...


ban the troll

[Trollsmasher]

OP would have Wilt and Jerry West higher all time if they never made the finals...


ban the troll
That would require OP to know these two.

[HurricaneKid]

the fallacy that a player is worse for making the finals and losing than not making the finals at all is the most idiotic and incomprehensible bowl of retard soup that I have ever come across. if a guy loses in the first round, that is worse than losing in the finals. if he loses in the conference finals, that is worse than losing in the finals. i sometimes feel like 99% of basketball fans have the reasoning of kindergarteners.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I think you rounded down to get to 99%.

If he gets to the Finals for a 4th straight year, something Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, even MIKE never did, his legacy gets worse? GTFO. The last time a team went to the Finals 4 straight years there were 22 teams in the NBA. The last time a team went to 4 straight Finals and won 3 of them BILL RUSSELL WAS ON THE TEAM. Talking about LBJ's terrible legacy with these facts staring you in the face makes you stupid.

[Vancouver-Grizz]

who cares???

Even with 1 championship ring, he has done quite well for himself. I still don't like the fact that he joined Miami but it was the right choice for him.

Future Hall of Famer - Olympic Gold Medalist - MVP - NBA champion

dude should just retire right now and give the NFL a shot before it is too late.. :)

[Prometheus]

who cares???

Even with 1 championship ring, he has done quite well for himself. I still don't like the fact that he joined Miami but it was the right choice for him.

Future Hall of Famer - Olympic Gold Medalist - MVP - NBA champion

dude should just retire right now and give the NFL a shot before it is too late.. :)

yo he could be a sick wideout

[Fudge]

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323652

[Fudge]

In all honesty, he'd get bumped down with Hakeem getting his spot back at 10.

[pauk]

Nothing.... as long as he performs up to his standards then i couldnt care less, he has nothing more to prove unless he wants to become the GOAT or something, even if he loses he is still young enough to pursue that goal imo.... at the end of the day the better team always win no matter how good one individual played....

..and lol @ Heat being stacked, without Lebron you are looking at the same or worse Wade team that either missed the playoffs or lost in 1st round since 2006, yes they have Bosh now, but now Wade is old/out of his prime & injury proned instead, kindof a counter balance, they aint doing anything with Lebron...

[Derka]

4 Finals in a row is a big deal. Doesn't happen very often at all.

Better to get there and lose then not get there at all.

[pauk]

4 Finals in a row is a big deal. Doesn't happen very often at all.

Better to get there and lose then not get there at all.

Wrong ISH logic :no:

Correct ISH logic:
Its better to miss playoffs or lose early than to get to the Finals and lose.... because we dont count 0/1 in Playoffs but 0/1 in Finals.... :applause:
because its more prestigious to lose early or miss playoffs than it is to lose in Finals...

If you are about to go to the Finals and dont like your chances there then you should immediately choke/quit in ECF/WCF/1st round/whatever.... dont want to get that "0 of 1 in Finals" stat... :no:

[guy]

Depends. If he balls out and just loses, can't do nothing but boost his legacy. Not sure he'd move up my list at all. That's not a knock on him. He's easily top 11 already, where depends on the day and the argument, but with the other players in that list, to move up I just can't depend exactly on results but moreso everything else that comes with it.

However, if he pulls a 2011 Finals or what he was doing for most of the 2013 Finals, I may think he's worse. Still top 11, but more then likely exactly at 11, while before it was an argument of exactly where.

I have a hard time ranking him right now just cause I feel like he has so much career left. I'd say lets say he ends his career with 2 titles/FMVPs, 4 MVPs, and 5 Finals appearances, and not accomplishing more after that has little do with his play, and has the incredible longevity and total and average career stats that we are expecting him to have i.e. Wilt with more longevity, I would say he would most likely end up at #5 for me behind Jordan, Russell, Kareem, and Magic and above Shaq, Wilt, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, Kobe (Not necessarily an order). If he shits the bed again this year and loses in the finals and then does the above, then I'd say maybe he falls in that last group somewhere. If he continuously shits the bed like that multiple more times in his career, I'd probably say he's #11, maybe #10.

[GOATbe]

Wrong ISH logic :no:

Correct ISH logic:
Its better to miss playoffs or lose early than to get to the Finals and lose.... because we dont count 0/1 in Playoffs but 0/1 in Finals.... :applause:
because its more prestigious to lose early or miss playoffs than it is to lose in Finals...

If you are about to go to the Finals and dont like your chances there then you should immediately choke/quit in ECF/WCF/1st round/whatever.... dont want to get that "0 of 1 in Finals" stat... :no:
Why are you acting like "ISH logic" isn't correct though? He's on the most stacked team of all time, you saying it'll help his legacy if he gets owned by KD in the finals? :lol Did it help his legacy when Shawn Marion shut him down and he got outplayed/lit up by Jason Terry too? :lol

[TMT]

3 losses in the Finals at age 29? Yeah, I'd say that would be quite a hit to the legacy of the supposed best player of this generation. Especially since hypothetically two of them would have come with the super team he set out to put together. Obviously if Wade is out, the perception changes a little bit. But no one is going to look back 15-20 years from now and blame Lebron's failures on Wade's health truthfully.

Lebron already has an overall losing record in the Finals = 10-12

This year has to be the year he reclaims a winning record. And honestly I could see them getting the job done even if Wade isn't able to go in the playoffs. It'll just take some incredible will-power from Bron which we know he has, a big step up from Bosh which we know he is capable of, and an X-factor in the playoffs like Greg Oden, Ray Allen playing some great consistent ball, ect.

[pauk]

Why are you acting like "ISH logic" isn't correct though?

Believing that losing early or missing playoffs is more prestigious than getting to the Finals?

Hm... well, then we just might aswell act like i am the best player of all time... why not?


He's on the most stacked team of all time you saying it'll help his legacy if he gets owned by KD in the finals? :lol
Did it help his legacy when Shawn Marion shut him down and he got outplayed/lit up by Jason Terry too? :lol

Oh yes... im sure what you are saying is the most objective, rational & factual statement ever.... all that you say is exactly what happened.... i really wonder if all of you Lebron haters really are that delusional irl or just behind secret doors like this....

[pauk]

3 losses in the Finals at age 29? Yeah, I'd say that would be quite a hit to the legacy of the supposed best player of this generation. Especially since hypothetically two of them would have come with the super team he set out to put together. Obviously if Wade is out, the perception changes a little bit. But no one is going to look back 15-20 years from now and blame Lebron's failures on Wade's health truthfully.

Lebron already has an overall losing record in the Finals = 10-12

This year has to be the year he reclaims a winning record. And honestly I could see them getting the job done even if Wade isn't able to go in the playoffs. It'll just take some incredible will-power from Bron which we know he has, a big step up from Bosh which we know he is capable of, and an X-factor in the playoffs like Greg Oden, Ray Allen playing some great consistent ball, ect.

So basically what you are saying is that Lebron would have a better legacy if he choked/quit early in playoffs or missed the playoffs the years he didnt win a championship... so he could have a whooping "2/2 Finals" stat... ?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WAi2txkagVM/TIhiiaRmYII/AAAAAAAAJxc/JCHR2XZNyKA/s400/logic_for_dummies.jpg

[Riley Martin]

Losing in the finals isn't worse than missing the finals, but it's still a legacy hit.

[GOATbe]

So basically what you are saying is that Lebron would have a better legacy if he choked/quit early in playoffs or missed the playoffs the years he didnt win a championship... so he could have a whooping "2/2 Finals" stat... ?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WAi2txkagVM/TIhiiaRmYII/AAAAAAAAJxc/JCHR2XZNyKA/s400/logic_for_dummies.jpg
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Music/Pix/pictures/2009/1/22/1232636376890/Ghost-002.jpg
Yes, it's better than turning into this once you're in the finals. :applause:

[TMT]

So basically what you are saying is that Lebron would have a better legacy if he choked/quit early in playoffs or missed the playoffs the years he didnt win a championship... so he could have a whooping "2/2 Finals" stat... ?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WAi2txkagVM/TIhiiaRmYII/AAAAAAAAJxc/JCHR2XZNyKA/s400/logic_for_dummies.jpg

Jesus, pauk. Everyone here knows you want to preserve the image of your oh so beloved Lebron, but be a man and take it for what it is. When a team reaches the Finals they automatically solidified themselves as the top team in their conference and a position among the elite in the NBA to threaten to take the title. Lebron has lost in two Finals, one where they were the overwhelming favorite to add to that. If you get to this point and fall it means that you couldn't get the job done that you were supposed to, end of discussion.

You don't see KD fans bitching for credit after 1 Finals appearance, or Spurs fans like me after seeing Duncan's perfect Finals series record go down last year. It happens, it's part of the damn game.

If you want to bitch go knock on Michael Jordan's door and complain about him setting the standard on such a godly pedestal. This is the NBA, this is how it's always been. The standards don't change just because you have a hard on for a certain player. Take the the L's from the past and enjoy what is going on now in which your guy has a great chance to go for three straight. No need fighting every little opinion from everyone on a message board. My God.

[knicksman]

damn lebron stans AKAs betas have really low standards. For me its ring or bust. So who cares if its first round or finals, they are all the same. While being contented with being in the finals is a sign of loser mentality or beta. LOL

[tpols]

So basically what you are saying is that Lebron would have a better legacy if he choked/quit early in playoffs or missed the playoffs the years he didnt win a championship... so he could have a whooping "2/2 Finals" stat... ?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WAi2txkagVM/TIhiiaRmYII/AAAAAAAAJxc/JCHR2XZNyKA/s400/logic_for_dummies.jpg
Nah.. its about a pattern being established for he plays in the Finals

07.. Played amazing leading up to the Finals but played like shit in the Finals.. no big deal, team sucked and he barely entered his prime

11.. Played amazing leading up to the Finals, and then completely choked and crashed and burn

12.. Played great in both before Finals and after Finals

13.. Played amazing before the Finals against an even superior defensive team than the spurs in the pacers, but then visibly was being mindfvcked in the finals and lost all faith in his jumper for 6 straight games.. aka he was choking under the pressure to shoot the damn ball.

Choked hard as hell in game 6 after an AMAZING 6 or 7 minute stretch where he went absolutely bananas to give the Heat the lead.. clock goes down to 3 minutes and hes turning the ball over and bricking everything allowing the spurs to build a 5 point lead under 30 seconds that took a .01% miracle to win pretty much

14.. ??


If Bron plays like 07, 11, or 13 in the Finals and his team loses, his legacy as a choker=confirmed with pattern established

[KyrieTheFuture]

By this logic, Carmelo is better than LeBron because he hasn't lost in the Finals yet. You guys are ****ing retarded.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Jesus, pauk. Everyone here knows you want to preserve the image of your oh so beloved Lebron, but be a man and take it for what it is. When a team reaches the Finals they automatically solidified themselves as the top team in their conference and a position among the elite in the NBA to threaten to take the title. Lebron has lost in two Finals, one where they were the overwhelming favorite to add to that. If you get to this point and fall it means that you couldn't get the job done that you were supposed to, end of discussion.

You don't see KD fans bitching for credit after 1 Finals appearance, or Spurs fans like me after seeing Duncan's perfect Finals series record go down last year. It happens, it's part of the damn game.

If you want to bitch go knock on Michael Jordan's door and complain about him setting the standard on such a godly pedestal. This is the NBA, this is how it's always been. The standards don't change just because you have a hard on for a certain player. Take the the L's from the past and enjoy what is going on now in which your guy has a great chance to go for three straight. No need fighting every little opinion from everyone on a message board. My God.

It's pretty obvious what he's getting at. Let me put it this way. Did Duncan go down in any intelligent person's all-time ranking because he lost in the Finals last season? Of course not.

[tpols]

It's pretty obvious what he's getting at. Let me put it this way. Did Duncan go down in any intelligent person's all-time ranking because he lost in the Finals last season? Of course not.
Duncan was outta his prime and doesnt have any past history of struggling/choking in the Finals doe

He was 4-0 lol

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Duncan was outta his prime and doesnt have any past history of struggling/choking in the Finals doe

He was 4-0 lol

Yeah, and now he's 4-1. Like I said, did that affect his legacy? No.

So for Lebron, losing in the ECF won't harm his legacy, but losing in the Finals will? :rolleyes:

[tpols]

Yeah, and now he's 4-1. Like I said, did that affect his legacy? No.
:
It only didnt affect his legacy because he was 4-0:oldlol:

Duncan was established undefeated in Finals series.. Furthermore he was out of his prime. Lebron is in his prime 2-2 and his last victory was shaky.

Lebrons penchant for choking in the Finals is established.. Duncans is not and on top of that Duncan played GREAT in the Finals.. his stats went up from previous rounds. Lebrons went down.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

It only didnt affect his legacy because he was 4-0:oldlol:

Duncan was established undefeated in Finals series.. Furthermore he was out of his prime. Lebron is in his prime 2-2 and his last victory was shaky.

Lebrons penchant for choking in the Finals is established.. Duncans is not and on top of that Duncan played GREAT in the Finals.. his stats went up from previous rounds. Lebrons went down.

So in other words, losing earlier would be better. Dat logic :applause:

[tpols]

So in other words, losing earlier would be better. Dat logic :applause:
Lebron probably wont lose earlier.. he plays fvcking great in the 3 rounds leading to the finals almost every year. From 2011 to 2013 he was great in every playoffs series before the Finals and only great in one of Finals


If Lebron loses in the ECF to the Pacers and plays like he usually does against them 30/8/8 then no harm done.

If he dominates the Pacers and then plays much worse against the next team Miami plays in the finals hes only reinforcing the pattern of choking.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nah.. its about a pattern being established for he plays in the Finals

07.. Played amazing leading up to the Finals but played like shit in the Finals.. no big deal, team sucked and he barely entered his prime

11.. Played amazing leading up to the Finals, and then completely choked and crashed and burn

12.. Played great in both before Finals and after Finals

13.. Played amazing before the Finals against an even superior defensive team than the spurs in the pacers, but then visibly was being mindfvcked in the finals and lost all faith in his jumper for 6 straight games.. aka he was choking under the pressure to shoot the damn ball.

Choked hard as hell in game 6 after an AMAZING 6 or 7 minute stretch where he went absolutely bananas to give the Heat the lead.. clock goes down to 3 minutes and hes turning the ball over and bricking everything allowing the spurs to build a 5 point lead under 30 seconds that took a .01% miracle to win pretty much

14.. ??


If Bron plays like 07, 11, or 13 in the Finals and his team loses, his legacy as a choker=confirmed with pattern established

6 straight games LOL. 2013 was good.

33 in g4, 25 in g5, 32 triple double in g6, 37 im g7............

[JellyBean]

His legacy will still be solid if the Heat make the Finals, fourth year in a row, and they lose. that is a huge accomplishment to make it 4 times. To make it four in a row, awesome. Win or lose, Lebron is legit and his legacy is solid..

[tpols]

6 straight games LOL. 2013 was good.

33 in g4, 25 in g5, 32 triple double in g6, 37 im g7............
If the Heat were to lose that Spurs series with Bron's hesitation to shoot all series long you KNOW everyone would destroy him for it.

No one would be saying he played good:oldlol:

[Uncle Drew]

6 straight games LOL. 2013 was good.

33 in g4, 25 in g5, 32 triple double in g6, 37 im g7............
Not relevant at all.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Lebron probably wont lose earlier.. he plays fvcking great in the 3 rounds leading to the finals almost every year. From 2011 to 2013 he was great in every playoffs series before the Finals and only great in one of Finals


If Lebron loses in the ECF to the Pacers and plays like he usually does against them 30/8/8 then no harm done.

If he dominates the Pacers and then plays much worse against the next team Miami plays in the finals hes only reinforcing the pattern of choking.

There you go again with that sheep logic. You just can't fix ignorance. This is literally the only place where I hear arguments that it's better to fail earlier. Try applying the same logic to any real world scenario, be it a job or education or anything else, and you'd be called an idiot. And rightfully so.

[tpols]

There you go again with that sheep logic. You just can't fix ignorance. This is literally the only place where I hear arguments that it's better to fail earlier. Try applying the same logic to any real world scenario, be it a job or education or anything else, and you'd be called an idiot. And rightfully so.
You sound like a kid that just watched a youtube video on plato or some shit trying to sound smart:oldlol:


Its about choking/playing like shit in the Finals.

Lebron does not have a history of doing that in the first three eastern conference playoff rounds. He does have a history of choking in the finals. One reinforces a pattern.. the other has no pattern to reinforce and thus does not prove anything.


You tried bringing 37 yr old Duncan into this when he was 4-0.:oldlol: You dont understand context.. just applying a blanket of logic to every player when each has had totally different circumstances and are at different stages of their careers. Its comical.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

You sound like a kid that just watched a youtube video on plato or some shit trying to sound smart:oldlol:

Yeah... I'm taking a wild guess here and saying you don't know much about Plato.



Its about choking/playing like shit in the Finals.

Lebron does not have a history of doing that in the first three eastern conference playoff rounds. He does have a history of choking in the finals.


You tried bringing 37 yr old Duncan into this when he was 4-0.:oldlol: You dont understand context.. just applying a blanket of logic to every player when each has had totally different circumstances and are at different stages of their careers. Its comical.

I used Duncan as an example because he's a Spurs fan but it applies to anyone. Anyway, you can't fix stupid so carry on.

[JohnnyA]

I'm a big LeBron fan, and there is obviously some ridiculous stuff being posted here but I think tpols has a pretty valid point.

If LeBron gets around his usual numbers then making another finals series will be a boost to his legacy... even if they lose. However if he has a bad finals series, particularly if he is playing passively it will have a negative effect.

[Lebron23]

HEy Stiffpols. Lebron is an efficient scorer than Gawdbe in the NBA Finals. and he's also a better all around player.


Kobe Bryant

37 games - 25.3 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg, 3.3 tov, 41.2 FG%, 84.8 FT%, 50.7 TS%

Lebron James

22 games - 23.4 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 44.1 FG%, 73.7 FT%, 51.8 TS%

LBJ in their first four finals appearance put much better stats than Kobe ( from 2000 to 2002, and 2004)

[Inferno]

HEy Stiffpols. Lebron is an efficient scorer than Gawdbe in the NBA Finals. and he's also a better all around player.


Kobe Bryant

37 games - 25.3 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg, 3.3 tov, 41.2 FG%, 84.8 FT%, 50.7 TS%

Lebron James

22 games - 23.4 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 44.1 FG%, 73.7 FT%, 51.8 TS%

LBJ in their first four finals appearance put much better stats than Kobe ( from 2000 to 2002, and 2004)

Wouldn't say that's much better :confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

Wouldn't say that's much better :confusedshrug:


Lebron still has plenty of chances to lead his team to another NBA Finals while Kobe's career is almost done.

[Inferno]

Lebron still has plenty of chances to lead his team to another NBA Finals while Kobe's career is almost done.

Yeah. I was just pointing out that you said LBJ's a much better Final's performer when he's really only a little better :confusedshrug:

[TMT]

I used Duncan as an example because he's a Spurs fan but it applies to anyone. Anyway, you can't fix stupid so carry on.

Obviously the Duncan one isn't the same situation, but the Durant one is and you didn't touch on that at all...

Bottom line, if you are good enough to make the Finals you should be able to win. Do you expect everyone to praise Lebron just because he got to the world's biggest stage and didn't finish the job? :confusedshrug:

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Do you expect everyone to praise Lebron just because he got to the world's biggest stage and didn't finish the job? :confusedshrug:

There you go with your straw man arguments. I stated me point of view very simply. Failing at a later stage in the playoffs is better than failing earlier, and it applies for every player. If you want to argue otherwise, go ahead but you'll just appear foolish.

[TMT]

HEy Stiffpols. Lebron is an efficient scorer than Gawdbe in the NBA Finals. and he's also a better all around player.


Kobe Bryant

37 games - 25.3 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg, 3.3 tov, 41.2 FG%, 84.8 FT%, 50.7 TS%

Lebron James

22 games - 23.4 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 44.1 FG%, 73.7 FT%, 51.8 TS%

LBJ in their first four finals appearance put much better stats than Kobe ( from 2000 to 2002, and 2004)

Whenever this kid feels threatened or insecure about Lebron =
"B-b-b-b-but (insert another star here) isn't as good at (insert topic of interest) as Lebron". Followed by stats at his convenience. :roll:

You realize the stats you posted are hardly different at all, right? :lol

[Lebron23]

There you go with your straw man arguments. I stated me point of view very simply. Failing at a later stage in the playoffs is better than failing earlier, and it applies for every player. If you want to argue otherwise, go ahead but you'll just appear foolish.


That kid is still bitter because Lebron and The Heat ended Duncan and the Spurs' winning streak in the NBA Finals.

[Lebron23]

Whenever this kid feels threatened or insecure about Lebron =
"B-b-b-b-but (insert another star here) isn't as good at (insert topic of interest) as Lebron". Followed by stats at his convenience. :roll:

You realize the stats you posted are hardly different at all, right? :lol


You seems bitter since the Heat beat the Spurs in the Finals. Lebron is better than Kobe, and he's gonna surpass Timothy Duncan if he wins his 3rd sraight finals MVP.

Duncan never average over 25.7 ppg in his NBA Career. zero back to back titles.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Whenever this kid feels threatened or insecure about Lebron =
"B-b-b-b-but (insert another star here) isn't as good at (insert topic of interest) as Lebron". Followed by stats at his convenience. :roll:

You realize the stats you posted are hardly different at all, right? :lol

Not sure why you waste time dealing w/ that clown. Just look at her username. :oldlol:

[TMT]

There you go with your straw man arguments. I stated me point of view very simply. Failing at a later stage in the playoffs is better than failing earlier, and it applies for every player. If you want to argue otherwise, go ahead but you'll just appear foolish.

It's better, but not by much at all. Especially for the "best player in the game". It's like you want a get out of jail free card for Lebron's teams having lost series in the past that they clearly should have won. :confusedshrug:

KD still gets shit for losing to the Heat in 2011 even though he put up 30ppg on 55%. The standards are set the same for everyone, my brother. Like I stated very, very simply: If you are good enough to get your team to the Final stage, you should be good enough to take it home. You don't get an award for just making it to the Finals. Two teams do that every year.

[TMT]

You seems bitter since the Heat beat the Spurs in the Finals. Lebron is better than Kobe, and he's gonna surpass Timothy Duncan if he wins his 3rd sraight finals MVP.

Duncan never average over 25.7 ppg in his NBA Career. zero back to back titles.

When my players were in their prime, we beat you too. :lol I'd say history has played out like it should have at this point.

I've had my fair share of glory as a Spurs fan. Much more than you've had as a Lebron stan. He's also seen as much failure as Kobe and much more than Duncan has already at 29 years old. :oldlol: Duncan also has twice as much weight on his fingers than Lebron with much, much, less help. Keep trolling, boy.

:pimp:

[Lebron23]

Not sure why you waste time dealing w/ that clown. Just look at her username. :oldlol:


You are so very sensitive. I apologize if I insulted you a couple of days ago, but still Lebron is better than your favorite player ( Unless his name is Michael Jordan).

[Lebron23]

When my players were in their prime, we beat you too. :lol I'd say history has played out like it should have at this point.

I've had my fair share of glory as a Spurs fan. Much more than you've had as a Lebron stan. He's also seen as much failure as Kobe and much more than Duncan has already at 29 years old. :oldlol: Duncan also has twice as much weight on his fingers than Lebron with much, much, less help. Keep trolling, boy.

:pimp:

Lebron was 22 yrs.old back in 2007. He played with a past his prime Z, and one hit wonder Larry hughes. His 2nd best player in the 2007 NBA playoffs was 20 yrs.old Daniel Gibson.

Timothy Theodore played with Manu Ginobili, and 2007 Finals MVP Tony Parker. Same Parker who raped the Cavaliers Backcourt.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

It's better, but not by much at all. Especially for the "best player in the game". It's like you want a get out of jail free card for Lebron's teams having lost series in the past that they clearly should have won. :confusedshrug:

KD still gets shit for losing to the Heat in 2011 even though he put up 30ppg on 55%. The standards are set the same for everyone, my brother. Like I stated very, very simply: If you are good enough to get your team to the Final stage, you should be good enough to take it home. You don't get an award for just making it to the Finals. Two teams do that every year.

Then I'm not sure why we're arguing. I've been saying the same thing all along. And not once did I say Lebron should credit for making it to the Finals in 2011, so not sure where you're getting that from.

[PsychoBe]

HEy Stiffpols. Lebron is an efficient scorer than Gawdbe in the NBA Finals. and he's also a better all around player.


Kobe Bryant

37 games - 25.3 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg, 3.3 tov, 41.2 FG%, 84.8 FT%, 50.7 TS%

Lebron James

22 games - 23.4 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 44.1 FG%, 73.7 FT%, 51.8 TS%

LBJ in their first four finals appearance put much better stats than Kobe ( from 2000 to 2002, and 2004)

kobe outdoes lebron in 5/9 of the statistical categories you put up but lebron put up "much better" stats?

[houston]

nothing he already a legend

[Prometheus]

better question would be "what does it mean for Lebron's legacy if the Heat don't even make the finals this year?" bc that would be worse than losing in the finals

[moe94]

better question would be "what does it mean for Lebron's legacy if the Heat don't even make the finals this year?" bc that would be worse than losing in the finals

No really. It's much more honorable to just make the playoffs and get beat before the Finals. Having a losing records in the Finals is worse than never making it there. In fact, it's worse than not even making the playoffs!

[funnystuff]

Chamberlain is 2-5 in Finals series and he's still Top 10 all-time.
West has about 8 or 9 Finals series loses, yet he's still Top 15 all-time.

Magic played with the greatest center in KAJ, along with one of the most stacked teams in NBA history and is still the greatest PG and Top 5 All-time.

Same can be said for KAJ. Played with the greatest PG, most stacked team, ect and is still the greatest center and possible #1 or #2 all-time.

But LeBron with a losing Finals series will hurt his legacy?
Playing with Wade and BOSH also hurts his legacy?

:oldlol:
Not to mention Wade has been 50% healthy in the past 2 years, haters are reaching so far.


Lebron carried that team through the playoffs the last two years, i don't care how you spin it.

[SpecialQue]

I don't get this thinking at all. Going to the finals is an accomplishment. Why are people so stupid that they don't understand that? Let's say Ray doesn't hit that three during last season's finals. Lebron still will have led his team to three straight finals appearances, but that's somehow a failure?

Get the fvck out of here with that bullshit.

[funnystuff]

I don't get this thinking at all. Going to the finals is an accomplishment. Why are people so stupid that they don't understand that? Let's say Ray doesn't hit that three during last season's finals. Lebron still will have led his team to three straight finals appearances, but that's somehow a failure?

Get the fvck out of here with that bullshit.
@ ISH, choking in the first round is way more beneficial to a players legacy than choking in the finals.

[DMAVS41]

Probably won't hurt him...and making 4 straight finals is impressive, but only 2 titles in 4 years on these Heat teams would be average or slightly below average with what you'd expect a top ten or so player of all time at his peak would do.

Shit...Duncan won 3 in 5 years from 03 through 07.

That 11 Finals meltdown looms large if they only end up with 2 titles in 4 or 5 years or so.