In all serious where do u have Lebrons ceiling alltime after 10 seasons?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I have his absolute ceiling 5th but not a lock he makes it

MJ is for sure better than Lebron ever was anyone who watched both knows that.

KAJ is much better, GOAT longevity, arguably the GOAT.

Russell was too dominant in the playoff.

Shaq was too dominant in his peak and playoff. Hes a much better playoff and finals performer than Lebron in his prime.

So 5th for me right now hes under the Larry, Kobe, Magic tier. Hes with Wilt and Timmy.

[moe94]

Realistically, his only true challenges in terms of career resume if everything pans out are KAJ and Jordan. Everyone else is likely to get leapfrogged.

[buddha]

his ceiling has always been GOAT and it still is, he won't be though.

[Illuminati]

Realistically, his only true challenges in terms of career resume if everything pans out are KAJ and Jordan. Everyone else is likely to get leapfrogged.

Cosign.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Realistically, his only true challenges in terms of career resume if everything pans out are KAJ and Jordan. Everyone else is likely to get leapfrogged.
How he gonna leapfrog Shaq and Russell:biggums:

[plowking]

What if he reels off 8 straight championships from now. He finishes with 10.

Your ceiling of 5th looks pretty stupid then.

Hes as good as any player that's ever played. Clearly one of the most impactful players in history with the way he led terrible teams to insane amounts of wins. His place in history is based on how much more he can achieve. Hes a lock for top 10 already even if he doesn't win anymore championships. Longevity will simply get him there in most peoples eyes.

[moe94]

How he gonna leapfrog Shaq and Russell:biggums:

I don't rank Russell because of his rings playing alongside HoF in every position. His defense could be the GOAT but his offense wasn't anything to write home about. I'm not one to overrate rings.

Shaq? Shaq isn't even above Duncan and Kobe in terms of career. His peak might be the GOAT or very very close to it but his career isn't that hard to beat for LeBron, in my honest opinion.

[oh the horror]

What if he reels off 8 straight championships from now. He finishes with 10.

Your ceiling of 5th looks pretty stupid then.

Hes as good as any player that's ever played. Clearly one of the most impactful players in history with the way he led terrible teams to insane amounts of wins. His place in history is based on how much more he can achieve. Hes a lock for top 10 already even if he doesn't win anymore championships. Longevity will simply get him there in most peoples eyes.


He's also completely laid several eggs in finals games dude. Those do hurt.

[moe94]

He's also completely laid several eggs in finals games dude. Those do hurt.

So has Kobe. :confusedshrug:

[oh the horror]

So has Kobe. :confusedshrug:



And do people not bring those up?

[plowking]

He's also completely laid several eggs in finals games dude. Those do hurt.

So did Bird... So did Magic... etc.

Go look at Jordan's Seattle series in 96... Look at his performance over the last 3 or 4 games. The only difference is his team pulled through for him, much like they did for Bird in his first finals victory.
We all know Wilt's history in the finals... hes had a couple shockers.

Point is, most players have. Some have, and they get hidden due to the team doing well and negating it.
Lets be honest. Most casual fans have no clue about Jordan's 5-19 game against Seattle. How about Kobe's 6-24? Nope. They just know they won.
Didn't happen to Lebron in some cases, and it is what it is.

[funnystuff]

So has Kobe. :confusedshrug:
Except Kobe shot 6-24 in the biggest game of his career, which is hilariously worse.

[Magic 32]

Except Kobe shot 6-24 in the biggest game of his career, which is hilariously worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6OoOY5ahvs

[funnystuff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6OoOY5ahvs
Wai

[moe94]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6OoOY5ahvs

You lost your damn mind.

[Mr. Jabbar]

top 5 lol, dude single handedly costed an epic stacked team a finals series

[Jameerthefear]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6OoOY5ahvs
That looks painful

[iTare]

You lost your damn mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N71ACnaLiFQ

[Magic 32]

That looks painful

Just ask Kobe. That was his hobby during the 2009-10 season (and playoffs).

[kamil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N71ACnaLiFQ

Looks like a spinoff of dermarolling.

[Ancient Legend]

top 5 lol, dude single handedly costed an epic stacked team a finals series

So did Kobe in 2004.

[knicksman]

i have him around wilt which is just barely top15. But now that he cheated, I have him top5 coz idiot fans thinks cheated rings are equal to legit rings. But for me, I dont even think hell crack top 15.

[moe94]

So did Kobe in 2004.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/17/obx9.jpg

[Boarder Patrol]

If I were a betting man I'd say LeBron hangs them up with 1-2 more rings and finals MVPs and 1 more MVP. That along with the other accolades should put him around 4.

[Mr. Jabbar]

So did Kobe in 2004.

biggest myth on ish, lal played bad that finals, it was nowhere near the choke job bran delighted us with, he basically threw the most iconic chokejob in the games history nontheless

[moe94]

biggest myth on ish, lal played bad that finals, it was nowhere near the choke job bran delighted us with, he basically threw the most iconic chokejob in the games history nontheless

Legendary scorer, Bean, averaged 23 PPG on 38% shooting :rockon:

It wasn't bad at all. In fact, it's pretty damn good....if you're Brandon Jennings.

Meanwhile, the putrid Shaq did 27 PPG on 63% shooting. Stupid fatass.

[T_L_P]

Kobe in Magic/Bird's tier and Duncan's not? :facepalm

If we're going off the typical criteria for a GOAT list (titles, Finals MVPs, overall stats), his ceiling is top 3-5, because he can definitely still win 3 more rings and Finals MVPs, which would put him there.

[Micku]

I feel like people do consider him top 10. He probably passed Larry Bird in the eyes of the casuals or the media. I don't know if he passed Bird within the hardcore fans.

I don't really think it's right to compare by ranking. I think it's best to do it with tiers. I don't really see people ranking him above Russell, Wilt, Jordan and Kareem territory, but I think he could get up to the Bird and Magic level. But sometimes people rank Magic and Bird high up there along with Kareem/MJ/Wilt/Russell too. Everybody has their own ranking system, so meh.

But so far, he's great. He accomplished a lot. 4 mvps, 4 finals trips, and won two of them in 10 seasons. Enough for people to acknowledge him as one of the top tier greats.

It'll be more fun to actually compare other greats after 10 seasons of being in the NBA!

Bill Russell: 9 rings, 5 MVPs
Magic Johnson: 5 rings, 3 MVPs
Tim Duncan: 4 rings, 2 MVPs
Michael Jordan: 3 rings, 1 DPOY, 3 MVP
Larry Bird: 3 rings, 3 MVPs
Shaq: 3 rings, 1 MVP
Kobe Bryant: 3 Rings
Kareem: 2 rings, 6 MVPs
Wilt: 1 ring, 4 MVPs


What is interesting is that some of them pretty much accomplish everything that they could after 10 seasons. Magic and Bird got their careers cut short and had misfortune. LeBron is still young enough to win a couple of more. Who knows how long he could play for. But after this season, I wonder where he would rank up against the other greats after 10 seasons?

But accomplishments and level of play is different. They would relate to one another tho. Like what type of performance did you do to help your team win a championship.

[oh the horror]

Once again. Trolls can't talk about one subject?


Bring up Kobe. That's been their method of distraction since the beginning of time.

[moe94]

Once again. Trolls can't talk about one subject?


Bring up Kobe. That's been their method of distraction since the beginning of time.

What are you even talking about? Laker fans bringing up the failures of LeBron while pretending like Kobe is clean will absolutely get called out. It's truly that simple. This thread is about all-time ranking so it's only natural that Kobe's name be brought up. Trolls get angry when their arguments are attacked. What else is new?

[Mr. Jabbar]

Legendary scorer, Bean, averaged 23 PPG on 38% shooting :rockon:

It wasn't bad at all. In fact, it's pretty damn good....if you're Brandon Jennings.

Meanwhile, the putrid Shaq did 27 PPG on 63% shooting. Stupid fatass.

9 lakers shot below 39% in that series, 7 of them in the very low 30's, yeah it wasnt one of the most epic defensive displays by the pistons, lets blame it on kobe.....2011 was a whole different story, a 1-man choke job like we never saw before

[Kobr]

What are you even talking about? Laker fans bringing up the failures of LeBron while pretending like Kobe is clean will absolutely get called out. It's truly that simple. This thread is about all-time ranking so it's only natural that Kobe's name be brought up. Trolls get angry when their arguments are attacked. What else is new?

Coming from the guy who brought up Kobe in this thread. :oldlol:

[T_L_P]

9 lakers shot below 39% in that series, 7 of them in the very low 30's, yeah it wasnt one of the most epic defensive displays by the pistons, lets blame it on kobe.....2011 was a whole different story, a 1-man choke job like we never saw before

Kobe should have been feeding the best player on his team though :confusedshrug:

[moe94]

Coming from the guy who brought up Kobe in this thread. :oldlol:

That's right. You can't say player x's legacy is hurt but the legacy of player y is fine, even though the circumstances are similar. It's called consistency.

[knicksman]

kobe is the man(alpha) sacrificing a ring for lebron to catch up:oldlol:

[Prometheus]

I have his absolute ceiling 5th but not a lock he makes it

MJ is for sure better than Lebron ever was anyone who watched both knows that.

KAJ is much better, GOAT longevity, arguably the GOAT.

Russell was too dominant in the playoff.

Shaq was too dominant in his peak and playoff. Hes a much better playoff and finals performer than Lebron in his prime.

So 5th for me right now hes under the Larry, Kobe, Magic tier. Hes with Wilt and Timmy.

kinda seems like people are not comprehending the question. "what is his ceiling" is idealistic, it basically means if everything works out perfectly for him the rest of the way. His ceiling then is probably #2 all-time, as he could finish with more rings/fmvp's than Michael but still be ranked lower because of a lesser peak and a resume with some awful performances that Jordan's resume does not have.

in all likelihood, bron will probably be 5-8 in most reasonable fans' lists, below mj and kaj for sure, and somewhere in the mix with bird/magic/Russell/shaq/etc.....

and as for 2004, kobe chucked away the series and the numbers demonstrate this emphatically. he shot 43/113 while shaq was 53/84. Detroit was single-covering shaq the entire time, and yet kobe consistently looked for his own shot and refused to keep feeding the big man down low. he finished the series with a statline significantly worse than LeBron's numbers in 2011, and any time a kobetard tries to use 2011 as a way to diminish LeBron, they will have 2004 thrown in their face from now until the end of time.

[GoranDragon]

2nd place behind MJ if he wins 3 more rings and FMVPs.

Once Lebron retire, the all time ranking will look like this:

1. MJ
2. Lebron
3. Russell
4. Bird
5. Magic

and so on....

[Mr. Jabbar]

lebron 2011 denies him the top all time, its a no brainer rlly, you just cant throw an egg like that, with sucha team and get away with it, srry fellas

[Marlo_Stanfield]

LEBron will dethrone Wilt as the GOAT. :applause: :applause:
Yall can bump this thread in 10 years if the internet still exists:cheers:
no player ever had such a huge all around impact with great stats while playing winning bball:bowdown:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

lebron 2011 denies him the top all time, its a no brainer rlly, you just cant throw an egg like that, with sucha team and get away with it, srry fellas
Heat 2011 wasnt anywhere close to stacked. only fakkits like u would suggest such an insane thing:roll:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Heat 2011 wasnt anywhere close to stacked. only fakkits like u would suggest such an insane thing:roll:

lol, my god..

[knicksman]

LEBron will dethrone Wilt as the GOAT. :applause: :applause:
Yall can bump this thread in 10 years if the internet still exists:cheers:
no player ever had such a huge all around impact with great stats while playing winning bball:bowdown:


wilt. LOL now Its proven that lebron and wilt have the same stans

[oh the horror]

Heat 2011 wasnt anywhere close to stacked. only fakkits like u would suggest such an insane thing:roll:


In comparison to Dallas? I don't care what anyone says. They should have won that series. It took an epic dirk performance and Lebron shitting the bed to lose that series.

[Bandito]

Same tier as Kobe, Magic, Bird etc...

Lower than MJ...

[Prometheus]

Heat 2011 wasnt anywhere close to stacked. only fakkits like u would suggest such an insane thing:roll:

:kobe: it takes quite a stan to force me onto Mr. Jabbar's side of an argument. congratulations. candidate for most retarded post of all time

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What if he reels off 8 straight championships from now. He finishes with 10.

Your ceiling of 5th looks pretty stupid then.

Hes as good as any player that's ever played. Clearly one of the most impactful players in history with the way he led terrible teams to insane amounts of wins. His place in history is based on how much more he can achieve. Hes a lock for top 10 already even if he doesn't win anymore championships. Longevity will simply get him there in most peoples eyes.

No he's not.

[fpliii]

No ceiling, but I think he'll finish behind 2 or 3 guys. Wouldn't shock me if he finishes higher, but don't expect it per se.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

In comparison to Dallas? I don't care what anyone says. They should have won that series. It took an epic dirk performance and Lebron shitting the bed to lose that series.
never said they werent good but they were FAR from stacked. and that Dallas team was DEEP as well as a good coach. yes they should have won but Dallas was good too and Heat were a new team and far from stacked 2011:no:

[moe94]

2011 Heat wasn't even stacked.

Dirk(better than KG) + Marion (best perimeter defender of his generation) + Jet (lights out) + Kidd (all time great PG in his prime) > LeBron + Wade (in his twilight) + Bosh (was he ever top 20?)

Give it up already.

that shit about Dirk being better than KG physically hurt me

[Marlo_Stanfield]

No he's not.
yes he is just like u are one of the worst posters around here:no:

[Dbrog]

Right now he's borderline top10. He could certainly end up top3 though behind Russell and Jordan. Realistically I see him getting to 6th/7th (interestingly if it wasn't for Ray Allen, Timmy D would get that spot).

Russell
Jordan
KAJ
Wilt
Magic
Bird/James

[secund2nun]

His ceiling is number 1. There will be plenty of more MVPs, finals MVPs, and rings for Lebron in his career. :cheers:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

yes he is


His ceiling is number 1. There will be plenty of more MVPs, finals MVPs, and rings for Lebron in his career. :cheers:

http://i.imgur.com/Q6VRo.gif

[Alan Ogg]

4th

[Magic 32]

+ Kidd (all time great PG in his prime)
and in 2011?

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Mitt-Romney-Laughing.gif

[moe94]

and in 2011?

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Mitt-Romney-Laughing.gif

http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/vp/image/1364/01/1364018317136.jpg

Genius.

[Mr. Jabbar]

:kobe: it takes quite a stan to force me onto Mr. Jabbar's side of an argument. congratulations. candidate for most retarded post of all time

good, good, your transformation will soon be complete, you will praise kobe and acknowledge alien (1) to be the best of the saga

[Bandito]

Once again. Trolls can't talk about one subject?


Bring up Kobe. That's been their method of distraction since the beginning of time.
Just let it go man. This is not going to change as we get 10 year old to prop up scrubs.

[Prometheus]

good, good, your transformation will soon be complete, you will praise kobe and acknowledge alien (1) to be the best of the saga

i would praise kobe, as he is one of the all-time great players of what is by far my personal favorite sport, but sadly i am pigeonholed into criticizing him because he is grossly overrated. his fans (like you) are super dogmatic and obnoxiously ignorant of his faults, and despite the fact that i consider kobe a top 15 all-time player (and one of my all-time personal favorites to watch), i find myself on the other side of the argument more times than not because ppl say ridiculous shit like Kobe = top 5.

and my user name has nothing to do with the alien prequel. that movie sucked.

[Prometheus]

good, good, your transformation will soon be complete, you will praise kobe and acknowledge alien (1) to be the best of the saga

really though, dude went full retard when he said 2011 heat was not stacked. must have snorted about 8 marijuanas before that pitiful excuse for a post.

come to think of it, his performance in that post was very reminiscent of LeBron's performance against the mavericks. trippy.

[houston]

he already top ten all-time

[Mr. Jabbar]

and my user name has nothing to do with the alien prequel. that movie sucked.

oh i see thats cool, it had a great 1st half though, after that it was more :facepalm than :eek:

[Bandito]

oh i see thats cool, it had a great 1st half though, after that it was more :facepalm than :eek:
that second half was so bad I fell asleep. WHat happened with that movie. IS like they changed writers or somethign.

[moe94]

I'm going to need you guys to stop dissing Prometheus right about now. :coleman:

[Bandito]

i would praise kobe, as he is one of the all-time great players of what is by far my personal favorite sport, but sadly i am pigeonholed into criticizing him because he is grossly overrated. his fans (like you) are super dogmatic and obnoxiously ignorant of his faults, and despite the fact that i consider kobe a top 15 all-time player (and one of my all-time personal favorites to watch), i find myself on the other side of the argument more times than not because ppl say ridiculous shit like Kobe = top 5.

and my user name has nothing to do with the alien prequel. that movie sucked.
Kobe has faults:rolleyes:

[Prometheus]

oh i see thats cool, it had a great 1st half though, after that it was more :facepalm than :eek:

btw, curious is your user name a reference to airplane the movie?

[Prometheus]

I'm going to need you guys to stop dissing Prometheus right about now. :coleman:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/Moe_Szyslak.png

[Prometheus]

Kobe has faults:rolleyes:

well I'm starting to see that you're the exception to the rule. :applause: respect

[Mr. Jabbar]

that second half was so bad I fell asleep. WHat happened with that movie. IS like they changed writers or somethign.

i dont know, it failed to build suspense in almost every scene but ultimately, i think it just lacked more aliens..

[Mr. Jabbar]

I'm going to need you guys to stop dissing Prometheus right about now. :coleman:

its not that bad, just when you consider the "previous" ones...would you take prometheus over any of the other 4?

[GoranDragon]

This thread has nothing to do with Kobe.

There's no need to speculate, Kobe's career is done. He's a top 15 player of all time.

[Mr. Jabbar]

btw, curious is your user name a reference to airplane the movie?

haha good movie but no

[Mr. Jabbar]

This thread has nothing to do with Kobe.

There's no need to speculate, Kobe's career is done. He's a top 15 player of all time.

stop bringing up kobe in movie threads :facepalm

[Prometheus]

stop bringing up kobe in movie threads :facepalm

:oldlol:

[moe94]

its not that bad, just when you consider the "previous" ones...would you take prometheus over any of the other 4?


Alien is definitely better but people still overrate the hell out of that film. Its last act is hardly award winning cinema. It turns into a slasher the moment the xeno is revealed in full.

Aliens? I'll give Aliens the edge, too, but it's over-the-top action with little to no substance but it did what it set out to do in a great away. Cameron knows what he's doing.

Everything else is mediocre, at best and in no way better than Prometheus.

[hops and stops]

Kobe
Ceiling: 8
Currently: 8-10

LeBron
Ceiling: 5-7
Currently: 11-13

Duncan
Ceiling: 6
Currently: 7-9

for good measure

[Mr. Jabbar]

Alien is definitely better but people still overrate the hell out of that film. Its last act is hardly award winning cinema. It turns into a slasher the moment the xeno is revealed in full.

Aliens? I'll give Aliens the edge, too, but it's over-the-top action with little to no substance but it did what it set out to do in a great away. Cameron knows what he's doing.

Everything else is mediocre, at best and in no way better than Prometheus.

i can live with prometheus over alien 4, but alien 3 was kinda good, those chasing scenes through the corridors had you glued to the seat. now that i think of it the alien saga is all about corridor chases and motion scanners that show up "too many readings" closing in yet nothing in sight *omg!

1,2 are far above anything

[Bandito]

stop bringing up kobe in movie threads :facepalm
:roll:

I still liked Predator movies more than Alien, but I do feel they didn't do much with the Predator series of movies. I was expecting a tv series with Predator but my dream hasn't come true to this day...

[Mr. Jabbar]

:roll:

I still liked Predator movies more than Alien, but I do feel they didn't do much with the Predator series of movies. I was expecting a tv series with Predator but my dream hasn't come true to this day...


both are great, predator 1 is just flawless, 2 was bad overall, im all in if they make a 3rd someday

[moe94]

Predators was a decent time. I can dig Adrian Brody and Eric Forman.

[LoveIsMyMessage]

Alien is definitely better but people still overrate the hell out of that film. Its last act is hardly award winning cinema. It turns into a slasher the moment the xeno is revealed in full.

Aliens? I'll give Aliens the edge, too, but it's over-the-top action with little to no substance but it did what it set out to do in a great away. Cameron knows what he's doing.

Everything else is mediocre, at best and in no way better than Prometheus.



I agree, Alien and Aliens are the best in the saga.
1.Alien
2.Aliens
3.Prometheus

[Mr. Jabbar]

Predators was a decent time. I can dig Adrian Brody and Eric Forman.

yes it was good, forgot bout that one...predator 1 tho, had prime arnold which is like prime shaq:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItzslynRhwg

[Bandito]

Predators was a decent time. I can dig Adrian Brody and Eric Forman.Eric Forman just works as the douchey guy, he pretty much acted like he did in that 70 show....

[moe94]

Arnie is the GOAT action star and it's really not even remotely close. Nostalgia has zero to do with it.

He shit out iconic characters like it was no thing.

As for Forman, I'm telling you that he would have made the greatest Spider-Man of all time. His personality is beyond perfect for the character. Making him venom was absolutely hilarious in the worst way.

[La Frescobaldi]

He is banned forever from elite status. He smeared his own name for disrespecting the game.

Lebron James - flopper.

[KirbyPls]

kinda seems like people are not comprehending the question. "what is his ceiling" is idealistic, it basically means if everything works out perfectly for him the rest of the way. His ceiling then is probably #2 all-time, as he could finish with more rings/fmvp's than Michael but still be ranked lower because of a lesser peak and a resume with some awful performances that Jordan's resume does not have.

in all likelihood, bron will probably be 5-8 in most reasonable fans' lists, below mj and kaj for sure, and somewhere in the mix with bird/magic/Russell/shaq/etc.....

and as for 2004, kobe chucked away the series and the numbers demonstrate this emphatically. he shot 43/113 while shaq was 53/84. Detroit was single-covering shaq the entire time, and yet kobe consistently looked for his own shot and refused to keep feeding the big man down low. he finished the series with a statline significantly worse than LeBron's numbers in 2011, and any time a kobetard tries to use 2011 as a way to diminish LeBron, they will have 2004 thrown in their face from now until the end of time.


Awesome post.

[Lebron23]

4x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP, and Back to Back NBA Champion. I put him above Kobe and Hakeem right now. He's currently the 8th greatest player in NBA History.

[GoranDragon]

4x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP, and Back to Back NBA Champion. I put him above Kobe and Hakeem right now. He's currently the 8th greatest player in NBA History.
Soon to surpass Duncan and Shaq.:cheers:

[Leftimage]

IMO At this point it's mostly circumstances that will determine where he ends up in the top 5. 1 is highly unlikely but I think number 2 or even 1b is doable. He'll need to keep the Heat top notch for another few years though. (2-3 more chips minimum)
also, Lebron holds the titles of:

Most sought after draft pick of all time.

Most sought after free agent of all time.

I think people will increasingly attribute his early struggles to Cleveland being a franchise with a strong tradition of failure and poor management.

Legacies often get embellished over time... imagine that for an active player who is already worshiped like Lebron.

I often wonder ''what could have been'' if, say, the Heat landed the number 1 pick in the 03' draft. Or even the Grizzlies...

[BigTicket]

LeBron's ceiling is 5th all time. He's not good enough to pass Jordan, Wilt or Kareem, and he will never win enough to pass Russell.

Everyone else is within his reach, he just needs 1-2 more rings and some longevity to get there.

[GoranDragon]

LeBron's ceiling is 5th all time. He's not good enough to pass Jordan, Wilt or Kareem, and he will never win enough to pass Russell.

Everyone else is within his reach, he just needs 1-2 more rings and some longevity to get there.
Magic and Bird >>> Wilt and Kareem on the all time ranking.

Magic carried Kareem to his rings ffs.:facepalm

[BigTicket]

Magic and Bird >>> Wilt and Kareem on the all time ranking.

Magic carried Kareem to his rings ffs.:facepalm

Prime Wilt and Kareem were far more dominant than Bird or Magic ever were.

[GoranDragon]

Prime Wilt and Kareem were far more dominant than Bird or Magic ever were.
No.

Wilt has ONLY 1 FMVP out of 2 measley rings.

Kareem has 2 FMVP out of 6 rings.

That means Wilt is 50% beta while Kareem is 66.6% beta. They NEEDED to be carried to their rings. That's not dominant.

[ImKobe]

Magic and Bird >>> Wilt and Kareem on the all time ranking.

Magic carried Kareem to his rings ffs.:facepalm

I'm pretty sure that Kareem did his thing on that team.He won the regular season MVP in 1980 (33.4 ppg in the Finals with 40 in the close-out game) and played a big part in that Finals win & also won the Finals MVP at 38 years old. And he also carried Big O to a title in Milwaukee during his prime.

Horrible troll. Need to check the facts before you post.

[ImKobe]

No.

Wilt has ONLY 1 FMVP out of 2 measley rings.

Kareem has 2 FMVP out of 6 rings.

That means Wilt is 50% beta while Kareem is 66.6% beta. They NEEDED to be carried to their rings. That's not dominant.

Maybe you should check the numbers and the games before you post. I doubt you've even watched a full game from that era. Kareem was the most dominant scorer of all-time, he didn't need Magic to score 25+ a night.

[GoranDragon]

Maybe you should check the numbers and the games before you post. I doubt you've even watched a full game from that era. Kareem was the most dominant scorer of all-time, he didn't need Magic to score 25+ a night.
Kareem have 4 FMVP missing from his 6 rings. That alone tells me his a beta and isn't quite as dominant as ppl say he is. Needed a ROOKIE Magic to carry him through the finals.:facepalm

[BigTicket]

No.

Wilt has ONLY 1 FMVP out of 2 measley rings.

Kareem has 2 FMVP out of 6 rings.

That means Wilt is 50% beta while Kareem is 66.6% beta. They NEEDED to be carried to their rings. That's not dominant.

The only reason Wilt didn't win FMVP when he got his first ring is that the award didn't exist yet, and Kareem is the only 6 time MVP NBA history ...

[GoranDragon]

The only reason Wilt didn't win FMVP when he got his first ring is that the award didn't exist yet, and Kareem is the only 6 time MVP NBA history ...
FMVP is much more important than MVP. You can EASILY get MVP back in the day with those weak competition, tell me, who was a threat to Kareem's MVP case?

The numbers don't lie. Kareem has 2 FMVPs when he should have gotten 6. That is 4 less. That is a staggering 66.6% beta usage rate. He had to rely on someone else to win rings.

[BigTicket]

Kareem have 4 FMVP missing from his 6 rings. That alone tells me his a beta and isn't quite as dominant as ppl say he is. Needed a ROOKIE Magic to carry him through the finals.:facepalm

Kareem was averaging 33/14 in that series until he got injured. If he hadn't missed that final game, he would have been the finals MVP.

[GoranDragon]

Kareem was averaging 33/14 in that series until he got injured. If he hadn't missed that final game, he would have been the finals MVP.
Magic had a 43/15/7/3 game which far overshadows whatever Kareem has done. He let a rookie come in and take over his team. But Kareem kept quiet because he like those rings coming in.:oldlol:

[BoutPractice]

You can't predict something like "ceiling", because it depends a lot on circumstance... Most players don't reach their ceilings... even after 10 years, they don't reach their ceiling for the remaining 5, 6 years.

I would say that LeBron is the player with the highest probability at this point of ending up with a 'r

[poido123]

2011 Heat wasn't even stacked.

Dirk(better than KG) + Marion (best perimeter defender of his generation) + Jet (lights out) + Kidd (all time great PG in his prime) > LeBron + Wade (in his twilight) + Bosh (was he ever top 20?)

Give it up already.

that shit about Dirk being better than KG physically hurt me


You are like two different people Moe :oldlol: One minute you're calling out Lebron, next minute you're overrating him...

Kidd was not in his prime in that series :oldlol: He was an old man and slow!

That Heat team was stacked, there's no denying it. Wade was younger, Bosh in his prime and Lebron. They were heavy favourites to beat the Mavs(that was according to betting too) and they failed badly.

This is one of your worst posts Moe, you usually post something useful :confusedshrug:

[GoranDragon]

[QUOTE=BoutPractice]You can't predict something like "ceiling", because it depends a lot on circumstance... Most players don't reach their ceilings... even after 10 years, they don't reach their ceiling for the remaining 5, 6 years.

I would say that LeBron is the player with the highest probability at this point of ending up with a 'r

[poido123]

Lebron's ceiling is 6th all time IMO.

I don't see him having a better peak and/or resume than MJ, Russell, Shaq, Wilt, Kareem. And I would find it hard to put him in front of Bird/Magic/Olajuwon.

His accomplishments are on the back of a superteam and weak competition up to this point.

[ImKobe]

Kareem have 4 FMVP missing from his 6 rings. That alone tells me his a beta and isn't quite as dominant as ppl say he is. Needed a ROOKIE Magic to carry him through the finals.:facepalm

Yeah, because Kareem 8 years out of his prime is supposed to play at a much higher level than a prime Magic. What a beta for carrying Big O to a title and being as productive as young/prime Magic in his mid-30s. :coleman:

[ImKobe]

Don't put Kareem with the GOAT MJ. Kareem has 2 only FMVPs while MJ has 6.

Let me help you out here bro

MJ >>>>>>> Lebron
Kareem >>>> Lebron
Magic >>>> Lebron
Kobe >>>> Lebron

[GoranDragon]

Let me help you out here bro

MJ >>>>>>> Lebron
Kareem >>>> Lebron
Magic >>>> Lebron
Kobe >>>> Lebron
MJ > Magic > Lebron > Kareem > Kobe

[GoranDragon]

Yeah, because Kareem 8 years out of his prime is supposed to play at a much higher level than a prime Magic. What a beta for carrying Big O to a title and being as productive as young/prime Magic in his mid-30s. :coleman:
Kareem couldn't be the best player on his team for 4 of his 6 rings. That to me, using math formula, is a 66.6% beta usage rate which automatically disqualifies him from the all time top 5 list. He's top 6-7 at best.

[moe94]

This is one of your worst posts Moe, you usually post something useful :confusedshrug:
I was being sarcastic doe

I don't agree with you being cynical over his accomplishments because of a superteam, however. Jordan, Bird, Russell and Magic all had insane amounts of help. Unless you put stock into that colluding junk, I don't see how you can hold it against him. Wade was only truly a superstar during that first year. He's been declining ever since.

[ImKobe]

Kareem couldn't be the best player on his team for 4 of his 6 rings. That to me, using math formula, is a 66.6% beta usage rate which automatically disqualifies him from the all time top 5 list. He's top 6-7 at best.

Only that no one cares about your stupid "math formula". :coleman:

[GoranDragon]

Only that no one cares about your stupid "math formula". :coleman:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323487

Check the thread, I have garnered seal of approval from prominent posters like SavageMode, Lebron23, Trollsmasher and Marlo_Stanfield.

[ImKobe]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323487

Check the thread, I have garnered seal of approval from prominent posters like SavageMode and Marlo_Stanfield.

I did, and it doesn't make sense. It doesn't account the Finals series that players have lost.

[GoranDragon]

I did, and it doesn't make sense. It doesn't account the Finals series that players have lost.
Because it doesn't need to. If you win a ring, you're an alpha if you get FMVP. No FMVP = beta. That's just as simple as it can get. Losses in finals are forgotten, nobody cares.

And I value Lebron23, Trollsmasher and SavageMode's opinion more than yours.

[ImKobe]

Because it doesn't need to. If you win a ring, you're an alpha if you get FMVP. No FMVP = beta. That's just as simple as it can get. Losses in finals are forgotten, nobody cares.

And I value Lebron23, Trollsmasher and SavageMode's opinion more than yours.

Of course you do, because they are blind Lebron stans.

[GoranDragon]

Of course you do, because they are blind Lebron stans.
I would like you to admit the validity of my formula. Seems to me you conceit that my math calculation along with Trollsmasher's tweaked formula is arguably the best way to determine who is GOAT and who's the alpha and beta.



I'll try to implement it into my stats/impact ratio. It seems that there is a level of an indirect correlation between those two, since the best S/I rating is 1 and the higher it gets, the worse it becomes.

For example:
Jordan - 100% alpha/1 S/I rating
LeBron - 100% alpha/1 S/I rating
Kobe - 40% alpha/ 1,8 S/I rating
Durant - 0% alpha/ 3,3 S/I rating

[ArbitraryWater]

Realistically, his only true challenges in terms of career resume if everything pans out are KAJ and Jordan. Everyone else is likely to get leapfrogged.

This.

And lol at Russell being too dominant in the playoffs :facepalm :lol

goat defense and on offense 15 ppg on 43%... aha

[Ancient Legend]

This.

And lol at Russell being too dominant in the playoffs :facepalm :lol

goat defense and on offense 15 ppg on 43%... aha


And like someone else said earlier, if Bill Russell was on Wilt's teams and viceversa, Wilt would have more than 13 rings. Russell 0.

[ImKobe]

And like someone else said earlier, if Bill Russell was on Wilt's teams and viceversa, Wilt would have more than 13 rings. Russell 0.

You can't really rank Wilt and Russell among modern players like MJ,Kobe,Shaq,Duncan,Hakeem because their eras are worlds apart. you can't compare their numbers without any sort of context. Russell and Wilt were both pioneers and changed the game for future generations. How many of you have even watched the guys from 50s-80s play?

[La Frescobaldi]

Magic had a 43/15/7/3 game which far overshadows whatever Kareem has done. He let a rookie come in and take over his team. But Kareem kept quiet because he like those rings coming in.:oldlol:

This is an astounding set of posts from you. And what's more astounding is I can't tell if you are yanking hard on the Big Ticket's..... or if you actually believe this horsesh!t about alpha and beta.
Either way your complete ignorance of older hoops (and apparently of human beings too) is on full display.

[GoranDragon]

This is an astounding set of posts from you. And what's more astounding is I can't tell if you are yanking hard on the Big Ticket's..... or if you actually believe this horsesh!t about alpha and beta.
Either way your complete ignorance of older hoops (and apparently of human beings too) is on full display.
Numbers don't lie. Kareem 2 FMVPs out of 6 rings is just sad.:facepalm

Check this thread if you're impressed and want to learn more about the new advanced stat I invented call alpha/beta usage rate:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323622

[Jameerthefear]

wow this might be the worst thread i have ever tried to read

[La Frescobaldi]

Numbers don't lie. Kareem 2 FMVPs out of 6 rings is just sad.:facepalm

Check this thread if you're impressed and want to learn more about the new advanced stat I invented call alpha/beta usage rate:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323622

That Invalid Link is a perfect sample of your views of sociology.

[GoranDragon]

That Invalid Link is a perfect sample of your views of sociology.
Thread got deleted for no reason whatsoever.:(

[SexSymbol]

In terms of career resume? Top 10, maybe even top 8 some day if everything goes right for him
Peak? Probably top 10-12 range

[La Frescobaldi]

Thread got deleted for no reason whatsoever.:(

Who can blame them for taking it out with the rest of the garbage?
Your woolly-brained ideas are in the exact same category as phrenology:

http://walternelson.com/Images/malatestablack.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

Once again. Trolls can't talk about one subject?


Bring up Kobe. That's been their method of distraction since the beginning of time.

Are you retarded?

[ArbitraryWater]

Same tier as Kobe, Magic, Bird etc...

Lower than MJ...

When y'all get it? Kobe IS NOT the same tier as Magic/Bird or LeBron..

[ArbitraryWater]

lebron 2011 denies him the top all time, its a no brainer rlly, you just cant throw an egg like that, with sucha team and get away with it, srry fellas

2011 was meh. Everybody had their stinkers, like said. How the rest performed doesnt matter really.

[The Iron Fist]

Kobe should have been feeding the best player on his team though :confusedshrug:
Uh, he had 4.5 assists per game.

[The Iron Fist]

kinda seems like people are not comprehending the question. "what is his ceiling" is idealistic, it basically means if everything works out perfectly for him the rest of the way. His ceiling then is probably #2 all-time, as he could finish with more rings/fmvp's than Michael but still be ranked lower because of a lesser peak and a resume with some awful performances that Jordan's resume does not have.

in all likelihood, bron will probably be 5-8 in most reasonable fans' lists, below mj and kaj for sure, and somewhere in the mix with bird/magic/Russell/shaq/etc.....

and as for 2004, kobe chucked away the series and the numbers demonstrate this emphatically. he shot 43/113 while shaq was 53/84. Detroit was single-covering shaq the entire time, and yet kobe consistently looked for his own shot and refused to keep feeding the big man down low. he finished the series with a statline significantly worse than LeBron's numbers in 2011, and any time a kobetard tries to use 2011 as a way to diminish LeBron, they will have 2004 thrown in their face from now until the end of time.
How many players on that Lakers team had more than 7 ppg?

[hops and stops]

T1
Jordan
Kareem
Wilt

T2
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Hakeem

T3
Duncan
Kobe
Oscar
LeBron
Moses

His ceiling is tier 2. He's not getting to tier 1. Neither is Kobe. Neither is Duncan.

[ArbitraryWater]

You are like two different people Moe :oldlol: One minute you're calling out Lebron, next minute you're overrating him...

Kidd was not in his prime in that series :oldlol: He was an old man and slow!

That Heat team was stacked, there's no denying it. Wade was younger, Bosh in his prime and Lebron. They were heavy favourites to beat the Mavs(that was according to betting too) and they failed badly.

This is one of your worst posts Moe, you usually post something useful :confusedshrug:

He's cool, he's mystical. I always wonder if there are 2 different personalites? He has his fair share of contradicting moments :lol

[Prometheus]

How many players on that Lakers team had more than 7 ppg?

there was one guy on the team who was getting whatever he wanted, scoring 27/game on 63%, the most dominant big of the modern era who was being single-covered by significantly smaller men, and kobe took 50% more shots than him. don't give me this crap about the rest of the team. comparing kobe/shaq stats for that series speaks for itself