Wilt Chamberlain vs SHAQ

[mehyaM24]

not sure why some posters think wilt > shaq.

wilt's play completely fell off in the playoffs and one of his two rings came from riding jerry west's coattails.

here are the facts:
wilt = 23.6 points per 36 minutes; shaq= 24.6 points per 36 minutes
-shaq scored more points per minute
-shaq shot a higher fg%
-shaq has taken 20+ fgas in TWO career seasons,both ending in scoring titles...while wilt jacked up 39.5 fgas per game in 62(also had a season where he missed 19FGA!!!)

again, in the playoffs, wilt was a 22.5 ppg scorer in 47.2 mpg - shaq = 24.3 ppg in 37.5 mpg in his playoff career.

shaq has a higher career fg% AND ft% in both the reg.season and playoffs, was a better postseason performer, finals performer and has more rings against better competition.

:confusedshrug:

[HylianNightmare]

1v1 gimme shaq

[SexSymbol]

not sure why some posters think wilt > shaq.

wilt's play completely fell off in the playoffs and one of his two rings came from riding jerry west's coattails.

here are the facts:
wilt = 23.6 points per 36 minutes; shaq= 24.6 points per 36 minutes
-shaq scored more points per minute
-shaq shot a higher fg%
-shaq has taken 20+ fgas in TWO career seasons,both ending in scoring titles...while wilt jacked up 39.5 fgas per game in 62(also had a season where he missed 19FGA!!!)

again, in the playoffs, wilt was a 22.5 ppg scorer in 47.2 mpg - shaq = 24.3 ppg in 37.5 mpg in his playoff career.

shaq has a higher career fg% AND ft% in both the reg.season and playoffs, was a better postseason performer, finals performer and has more rings against better competition.

:confusedshrug:
I'm one of those posters who think that Shaq gets a pass for his underperformances in many seasons, forcing his way out of Miami by faking an injury, eating his way out of LA, quitting on Orlando the year after they went to the finals and ring chasing in general, missing the PO with prime Nash, Amare, JRich and Barbosa on his team, but Shaq is and should be ahead of Wilt all-time by a comfortable margin

[fpliii]

Hey shaqpopcorn34, what's your Super Bowl pick? Make me some money here. :cheers:

[GoranDragon]

Shaq it's not even close. Just look at the era they play in ffs.

[Rose'sACL]

wilt is pobably one of the few players from 60s whose game would be great in any era. Russell would not be that good. He would probably get a lot of DPOYs but no mvp.
Wilt would have been top 3 in any era but i would take shaq as he played in the modern era and it is easier to judge him. Wilt is either called the GOAT or just a good player who played in an easier era. Both are results of no video evidence only highlight videos.

[mehyaM24]

1v1 gimme shaq
:applause:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kM2OdZPVaw
since when has wilt ever displayed the power, quickness, agility, and skill that shaq has? shaq would have destroyed him.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Both amazing, both top5 peaks, both top4 centers.

I personally think Shaq was better looking at everything he's done and would pick him, so yes my choice is Shaq (peak and overall career) but Wilt's pretty close and not a "bad choice" obviously.

*waits for jlauber's big-ass essays filled with dumb shit*

[mehyaM24]

Hey shaqpopcorn34, what's your Super Bowl pick? Make me some money here. :cheers:

broncos over seattle just like manning over brady.....and there isn't even a question about it :rockon:

[mehyaM24]

wilt is pobably one of the few players from 60s whose game would be great in any era. Russell would not be that good. He would probably get a lot of DPOYs but no mvp.
Wilt would have been top 3 in any era but i would take shaq as he played in the modern era and it is easier to judge him. Wilt is either called the GOAT or just a good player who played in an easier era. Both are results of no video evidence only highlight videos.

to be honest, im not very impressed by wilts stats...wilt played for stats(in a heavy-paced league)...it is an INCONTESTABLE FACT that he used to check his numbers at halftime and argue with the statisticians if he disagreed with something..wilt played for numbers,bill russell played for letters...as in W's.

[jlip]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6486742&postcount=9

[Dr.J4ever]

to be honest, im not very impressed by wilts stats...wilt played for stats(in a heavy-paced league)...it is an INCONTESTABLE FACT that he used to check his numbers at halftime and argue with the statisticians if he disagreed with something..wilt played for numbers,bill russell played for letters...as in W's.
It's so difficult to judge who the best players were more than 40 years since their era ended. I don't know of anyone on this board who actually saw live games or live TV games of Wilt/ Russel/ Lew Alcindor . We can only rely on what the more respected experts who actually witnessed the games. And what they seem to have said to us this is this----Russel>Wilt. At least most of the experts that I read. I'm not sure everyone would agree with me about that, and I have a feeling some on this board would vehemently disagree.

I never believed in just looking at raw statistics which Wilt amassed. Stats aren't a be all or end all for me. Stats are highly flexible numbers that can change from one type of team to another. Wilt started winning and contending when he started producing less PPG. The point of playing basketball is to win, and not to produce stats. Some on this board love stats like it's the end in itself.

But to answer the OP, Shaq>Wilt but KAJ is the best of all time.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Wilt is better in absolutely EVERYTHING than Shaq including FT shooting. hes also stronger,faster AND more athletic.
he was always ten times better defensively while scorin more PPG. he lead the league in Assists ffs, in a time where assists were harder to get he averaged 8,6( i think?) one season.
theres a video where grandpa Wilt shakes Orlando Shaqs hand and u can see that he nearly rips his arm out.:biggums:

[Marchesk]

In Wilt's favor:

Led the league in scoring 7 times and rebounding 11 times. Shaq led the league in scoring twice and rebounding zero times. Wilt led the league in FG% the same number of seasons that Shaq did. Wilt was one of the top two shot blockers of his era along with Russell. Shaq never led the league in blocked shots. Wilt is the only center to lead the league in assists. Shaq's high was 3.8, which is less than half (assists are not inflated by the pace due to stricter criteria back then). Wilt holds numerous records, including FG% for a season.

Shaq's teams got swept from the playoffs numerous times. Meanwhile, Wilt's teams were battling Russell's in game sevens.

Rules were changed to limit Wilt (no over the backboard inbounds pass, wider lanes), while the rules were ignored to favor Shaq (offensive fouling).

[r0drig0lac]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6486742&postcount=9
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Marchesk]

to be honest, im not very impressed by wilts stats...wilt played for stats(in a heavy-paced league)...it is an INCONTESTABLE FACT that he used to check his numbers at halftime and argue with the statisticians if he disagreed with something..wilt played for numbers,bill russell played for letters...as in W's.

We can ignore pace by looking at how players did relative to their competition. And when a guy is leading the league in multiple categories throughout his career, his dominance is unquestioned.

For all the talk of Wilt's 50/25 season, his 24/24/8 on 68% for a 68 win team that beat Russell's in five games is superior and proves how versatile Wilt was.

[r0drig0lac]

Wilt is better in absolutely EVERYTHING than Shaq including FT shooting. hes also stronger,faster AND more athletic.
he was always ten times better defensively while scorin more PPG. he lead the league in Assists ffs, in a time where assists were harder to get he averaged 8,6( i think?) one season.
theres a video where grandpa Wilt shakes Orlando Shaqs hand and u can see that he nearly rips his arm out.:biggums:
this

[LAZERUSS]

It's so difficult to judge who the best players were more than 40 years since their era ended. I don't know of anyone on this board who actually saw live games or live TV games of Wilt/ Russel/ Lew Alcindor . We can only rely on what the more respected experts who actually witnessed the games. And what they seem to have said to us this is this----Russel>Wilt. At least most of the experts that I read. I'm not sure everyone would agree with me about that, and I have a feeling some on this board would vehemently disagree.

I never believed in just looking at raw statistics which Wilt amassed. Stats aren't a be all or end all for me. Stats are highly flexible numbers that can change from one type of team to another. Wilt started winning and contending when he started producing less PPG. The point of playing basketball is to win, and not to produce stats. Some on this board love stats like it's the end in itself.

But to answer the OP, Shaq>Wilt but KAJ is the best of all time.

You mean the "experts" who gave Wilt a 7-2 edge in All-NBA First Team selections in their TEN years in the league together?

Please.

[RIP CITY]

Wilt is better in absolutely EVERYTHING than Shaq including FT shooting. hes also stronger,faster AND more athletic.
he was always ten times better defensively while scorin more PPG. he lead the league in Assists ffs, in a time where assists were harder to get he averaged 8,6( i think?) one season.


In Wilt's favor:

Led the league in scoring 7 times and rebounding 11 times. Shaq led the league in scoring twice and rebounding zero times. Wilt led the league in FG% the same number of seasons that Shaq did. Wilt was one of the top two shot blockers of his era along with Russell. Shaq never led the league in blocked shots. Wilt is the only center to lead the league in assists. Shaq's high was 3.8, which is less than half (assists are not inflated by the pace due to stricter criteria back then). Wilt holds numerous records, including FG% for a season.

Shaq's teams got swept from the playoffs numerous times. Meanwhile, Wilt's teams were battling Russell's in game sevens.

Rules were changed to limit Wilt (no over the backboard inbounds pass, wider lanes), while the rules were ignored to favor Shaq (offensive fouling).

These two guys said everything I was going to say, except for one thing, Shaq was a wildly overrated defensive player.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

These two guys said everything I was going to say.
:cheers:
slowly some poster are starting to come around on Wilt
And i love Shaq. i would take him at his peak over ANY player in NBA history outside of Wilt

[LAZERUSS]

Both amazing, both top5 peaks, both top4 centers.

I personally think Shaq was better looking at everything he's done and would pick him, so yes my choice is Shaq (peak and overall career) but Wilt's pretty close and not a "bad choice" obviously.

*waits for jlauber's big-ass essays filled with dumb shit*

Hmmm, a prime Chanberlain was a much better scorer (even in the POST-SEASON), a much better rebounder (while Shaq was getting outrebounded by 6-8 and 6-7 players in his post-season play, no one approached Wilt in his 29 post-season series), a much better passer (where are Shaq's assist titles, and 9.2 apg post-seasons), and at his peak efficiency, a MUCH more effcient shooter (especially against league average eFG%), a MUCH better defender (where are Shaq's first-team all-defensive selections), and a FAR greater shot-blocker. Oh, and Chamberlain won FOUR MVPs (and should have been at least six), and was voted ahead of Russell in First Team, All-NBA's by a staggering 7-2 margin.

[Dr.J4ever]

You mean the "experts" who gave Wilt a 7-2 edge in All-NBA First Team selections in their TEN years in the league together?

Please.
Haven't found stuff from the older guys yet, but how 'bout this---The Book of Basketball.

http://courtsideanalyst.wordpress.com/2010/01/01/the-great-debate-russell-vs-chamberlain/

Actually argues the issue is very complex.. also that Wilt was inconsistent in the early years when he seemed to be more dominant

[LAZERUSS]

Haven't found stuff from the older guys yet, but how 'bout this---The Book of Basketball.

http://courtsideanalyst.wordpress.com/2010/01/01/the-great-debate-russell-vs-chamberlain/

Actually argues the issue is very complex.. also that Wilt was inconsistent in the early years when he seemed to be more dominant

Hell, despite what Auerbach has claimed, even he wanted Chamberlain...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain

[QUOTE]During summer vacations Chamberlain worked as a bellhop in Kutsher's Hotel. Subsequently, owners Milton and Helen Kutsher kept up a lifelong friendship with Wilt, and according to their son Mark, "They were his second set of parents."[19] Red Auerbach, the coach of the Boston Celtics, spotted the talented teenager at Kutscher's and had him play 1-on-1 against Kansas University standout and national champion, B. H. Born, elected the Most Valuable Player of the 1953 NCAA Finals. Chamberlain won 25

[SexSymbol]

Hell, despite what Auerbach has claimed, even he wanted Chamberlain...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain



You can argue that he did just fine with Russell, but I think we all know that had he had Chamberlain, that his "dynasty" would have been even more dominant.
No. Wilt would've choked crucial FT's in game 7 against Russell's Lakers.
And the nba today would be Lakers - 40 nba titles, Celtics 6

[Dr.J4ever]

Hell, despite what Auerbach has claimed, even he wanted Chamberlain...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain



You can argue that he did just fine with Russell, but I think we all know that had he had Chamberlain, that his "dynasty" would have been even more dominant.
Or check the Q and A here with Charley Rosen, a veteran who SAW these players first hand.. A questioner actually asks who would be better Shaq or Wilt..He mentions Shaq had better offensive skill, but Wilt was the better passer.. Also that defenses were much cruder back then with very little double teams...Just as I thought.

[Dr.J4ever]

Or check the Q and A here with Charley Rosen, a veteran who SAW these players first hand.. A questioner actually asks who would be better Shaq or Wilt..He mentions Shaq had better offensive skill, but Wilt was the better passer.. Also that defenses were much cruder back then with very little double teams...Just as I thought.
Sorry here it is:

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/rosen/030109.html

[LAZERUSS]

Or check the Q and A here with Charley Rosen, a veteran who SAW these players first hand.. A questioner actually asks who would be better Shaq or Wilt..He mentions Shaq had better offensive skill, but Wilt was the better passer.. Also that defenses were much cruder back then with very little double teams...Just as I thought.

Rosen was a notorious Wilt-hater. Just read his book on the '72 Lakers, when he completely LIED about how game seven of the '69 Finals went.

Funny thing, too, he TRIES to rip Wilt every chance he gets in that book, but he even he finally conceded that it because of WILT, that the Lakers had that remarkable season.

He and Simmons are to be taken with a grain of salt...

[ArbitraryWater]

shaqpopcorn my man, if you'd know who I was on yt haha

[LAZERUSS]

Or check the Q and A here with Charley Rosen, a veteran who SAW these players first hand.. A questioner actually asks who would be better Shaq or Wilt..He mentions Shaq had better offensive skill, but Wilt was the better passer.. Also that defenses were much cruder back then with very little double teams...Just as I thought.


Defenses were much cruder? Are you kidding me? There was no three point line back then, so the lanes were much more compact, and it was much easier to sag or double players quickly. Furthermore, KAJ had seasons in the 70's when he shot .539, .529, .518, and even .513 (in the middle of the decade.) And, yet, he would never shoot less than .564 in the first eight years of the decade of the 80's. And again, he seldom shot 50% against Wilt or Nate, and often shot below 40% against them, and yet a 38-41 year old Kareem not only outscored a 23-26 year old Hakeem in their 23 H2H's, he outshot him by a .607 to .512 margin. And please, don't bring up the '86 WCF's, when it was SAMPSON who was tasked with defending KAJ (and Hakeem doubling.)

Again, the best defensive centers of the 60's (and these centers were not in their primes, either) gave Kareem FAR more trouble than the best defensive centers of the 90's.

[mehyaM24]

Wilt is better in absolutely EVERYTHING than Shaq including FT shooting. hes also stronger,faster AND more athletic.
he was always ten times better defensively while scorin more PPG. he lead the league in Assists ffs, in a time where assists were harder to get he averaged 8,6( i think?) one season.
theres a video where grandpa Wilt shakes Orlando Shaqs hand and u can see that he nearly rips his arm out.:biggums:

when I want your opinion I will beat it out of you.

checkout "shaq jumps over the defenders head and dunks LSU" on youtube. show me wilt doing that - and LMAO at Wilt being better than Shaq at free throws. Shaq was worlds better, the facts (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html) dont lie.

also checkout "shaq kills david robinson" wilts dunks are BORRRRRING and slow "shaq monster dunk" "2000 LA lakers shaq 61 points" - pause at 3:52 or the peak of shaqs dunk. I BRING THE FOOTAGE...THE FACTS....i admit,i havent seen a wilt highlight....ohh,ive seen plenty of wilt footage...JUST NO HIGHLIGHTS. :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

when I want your opinion I will beat it out of you.

checkout "shaq jumps over the defenders head and dunks LSU" on youtube. show me wilt doing that - and LMAO at Wilt being better than Shaq at free throws. Shaq was worlds better, the facts (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html) dont lie.

also checkout "shaq kills david robinson" wilts dunks are BORRRRRING and slow "shaq monster dunk" "2000 LA lakers shaq 61 points" - pause at 3:52 or the peak of shaqs dunk. I BRING THE FOOTAGE...THE FACTS....i admit,i havent seen a wilt highlight....ohh,ive seen plenty of wilt footage...JUST NO HIGHLIGHTS. :oldlol:

Please list the team that Shaq faced, their record, and the centers he battled, and their minutes played against him, in that "61 point" game. Talk about a Birthday "gift"...

[mehyaM24]

Please list the team that Shaq faced, their record, and the centers he battled, and their minutes played against him, in that "61 point" game. Talk about a Birthday "gift"...

where's the footage of wilt's "100 point" game? LMAOO

[AirFederer]

Wilt not strong enough to cover Shaq one on one, true story

[SexSymbol]

Shaq's dick could outplay Wilt 1x1

[mehyaM24]

We can ignore pace by looking at how players did relative to their competition. And when a guy is leading the league in multiple categories throughout his career, his dominance is unquestioned.

For all the talk of Wilt's 50/25 season, his 24/24/8 on 68% for a 68 win team that beat Russell's in five games is superior and proves how versatile Wilt was.

no words describe the majesty of its unfolding,the utter "absence" of anything resembling effort,and the all-sufficient power to perform the allotted task and to do it majerstically; each rapid impulse was the crest of something deep and powerful and uniform which bore it and the unhurried modulation of its rhythmic beats....sets Shaq's game in rank of things which are mighty,grave,and great.

[LAZERUSS]

no words describe the majesty of its unfolding,the utter "absence" of anything resembling effort,and the all-sufficient power to perform the allotted task and to do it majerstically; each rapid impulse was the crest of something deep and powerful and uniform which bore it and the unhurried modulation of its rhythmic beats....sets Shaq's game in rank of things which are mighty,grave,and great.

At least not these words, which make no sense at all....

[LAZERUSS]

where's the footage of wilt's "100 point" game? LMAOO

Same with his 270 other 40+ point games. Where is that footage? It would sure be nice to see though, wouldn't it? BTW, did Shaq ever shoot 28-32 from the FT line in any of his games?

[jongib369]

:applause:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kM2OdZPVaw
since when has wilt ever displayed the power, quickness, agility, and skill that shaq has? shaq would have destroyed him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC3KfhYRtG4

[Marlo_Stanfield]

where's the footage of wilt's "100 point" game? LMAOO
stay mad doe:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

Same with his 270 other 40+ point games. Where is that footage? It would sure be nice to see though, wouldn't it? BTW, did Shaq ever shoot 28-32 from the FT line in any of his games?

so its just hearsay(FYI, shaq shot a better percentage from the line :oldlol)

about athleticsm and speed: i encourage everyone to checkout "shaq leads a fast break" and "shaq steals the ball and dunks it for the win" on youtube. just look at the acceleration,beating robinson to a loose ball for a fast break jam.... we dont see these plays from wilt. shaq was definitely faster.

[mehyaM24]

stay mad doe:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

i will get back to you as soon as i pull my fist out of your mothers ripe asshole.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Wilt not strong enough to cover Shaq one on one, true story
no, its actually a lie. Wilt was stronger than Shaq at its not close:facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt not strong enough to cover Shaq one on one, true story

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Chamberlain was IMMENSELY stronger than Shaq.

I found it laughable that a while back Barkley challenged Shaq to a bench-press competition, and while Barkley's plates were fake, Shaq couldn't budge 405..and I mean couldn't budge it. Had he not had help, he would have died on that bench.

And yet there were eyewitness accounts of Chamberlain benching 465 lbs in his 50's. And even Arnold Terminator was stunned by the weights Chamberlain was working out with. A world-class body builder just amazed at what a true world-class athlete could do.

Of course, you can just google Chamberlain's strength, and the internet is just plastered with limitless accounts. Google Shaq's strength, and you are likely to get a video clip in which a Barkley throws him down like a rag doll, or even worse, Shaq's pansie punch (missed BTW) against Brad Miller.

[LAZERUSS]

I have often wondered what kind of numbers a prime Chamberlain would have put up against this guy...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryed01&p2=onealsh01

The "Shaq-stopper"

[navy]

Shaq isnt that strong. His body is just immense. Wilt is probably stronger in a bench press, but his skinny legs would give shaq a better chance of backing him down.

Just looked it up. Wilt is stronger in a bench press.

[mehyaM24]

no, its actually a lie. Wilt was stronger than Shaq at its not close:facepalm

i go by what i say…not by what others say. the footage clearly shows wilt is inferior. many guys think he was the "best" without even having seen him play(you)

stronger? :roll: wilt had WEAK dunks…shaq dunks with waaaaay more power.

get back to me when shaq chokes the way wilt did playing 4 game 7's vs the celtics and being outscored by sam jones in ALL of them.

wilt= 44.8 ppg in 62-63….his team went 21-49…what dominance….lmaoooo…

wilt= swept by the 38-41 Syracuse nationals…swept by a LOSING TEAM…ouch

[LAZERUSS]

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]i go by what i say

[senelcoolidge]

Shaq had the potential to be the greatest, he was just lazy. Wilt was not a lazy man. That man had a lot of pride.

[mehyaM24]

Speaking of sweeps...Shaq was SWEPT SIX times, and nearly EIGHT.

:no:

shaq was NEVER swept by a losing team....DOMINANCE!!!!

[jongib369]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Chamberlain was IMMENSELY stronger than Shaq.

I found it laughable that a while back Barkley challenged Shaq to a bench-press competition, and while Barkley's plates were fake, Shaq couldn't budge 405..and I mean couldn't budge it. Had he not had help, he would have died on that bench.

And yet there were eyewitness accounts of Chamberlain benching 465 lbs in his 50's. And even Arnold Terminator was stunned by the weights Chamberlain was working out with. A world-class body builder just amazed at what a true world-class athlete could do.

Of course, you can just google Chamberlain's strength, and the internet is just plastered with limitless accounts. Google Shaq's strength, and you are likely to get a video clip in which a Barkley throws him down like a rag doll, or even worse, Shaq's pansie punch (missed BTW) against Brad Miller.
This is where we are going to have to disagree, I've seen videos of Wilt working out in like 1992-93 in a fitness video that's like a half hour long that no one here has seen....It's IMPOSSIBLE he was putting up that much weight at THAT age

[jongib369]

Looks can be deceiving but still

[jlip]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6486742&postcount=9

Highlights from the post in this link by ThaRegul8r:

Chamberlain went through Bill Russell and Nate Thurmond to win his first title in 1967, and went through Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Jerry Lucas to win in 1972 for his second title.

During the Lakers

[SHAQisGOAT]

Speaking of sweeps...Shaq was SWEPT SIX times, and nearly EIGHT.

Still got them 4 rings though (3 as the top dog) and maintained or elevated his play in the post-season. :bowdown:

*waits for numerous "excuses" for Wilt that for Bird, Kareem or for basically any other player except Wilt and Magic, would've been "forgotten"*

[MavsSuperFan]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Chamberlain was IMMENSELY stronger than Shaq.

I found it laughable that a while back Barkley challenged Shaq to a bench-press competition, and while Barkley's plates were fake, Shaq couldn't budge 405..and I mean couldn't budge it. Had he not had help, he would have died on that bench.

And yet there were eyewitness accounts of Chamberlain benching 465 lbs in his 50's. And even Arnold Terminator was stunned by the weights Chamberlain was working out with. A world-class body builder just amazed at what a true world-class athlete could do.

Of course, you can just google Chamberlain's strength, and the internet is just plastered with limitless accounts. Google Shaq's strength, and you are likely to get a video clip in which a Barkley throws him down like a rag doll, or even worse, Shaq's pansie punch (missed BTW) against Brad Miller.
:biggums:
Do you also believe in santa claus? Wilt was basically the chuck norris of his era. All of the wilt stories = the norris stories.


Chamberlain was IMMENSELY stronger than Shaq.
:lol :roll: :lol :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

:applause:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kM2OdZPVaw
since when has wilt ever displayed the power, quickness, agility, and skill that shaq has? shaq would have destroyed him.
Wilt does that same move right here against a much better and more athletic defender

http://youtu.be/WdmYTdjCXpU?t=10m16s

Watch just a couple clips before too, hands directly on the ball on his dunk attempt.... just forces the ball through anyways. Sorry, Snaq was athletic but most of his 'power' came from being overweight and fat, people just bounced right off him. Wilt was stronger than Shaq and he was scuplted like a municipal statue.

[jongib369]

Wilt does that same move right here against a much better and more athletic defender

http://youtu.be/WdmYTdjCXpU?t=10m16s

Watch just a couple clips before too, hands directly on the ball on his dunk attempt.... just forces the ball through anyways. Sorry, Snaq was athletic but most of his 'power' came from being overweight and fat, people just bounced right off him. Wilt was stronger than Shaq and he was scuplted like a municipal statue.
I actually thought that wasn't impressive at all really when I first saw it...Then I looked at it in slow motion...lol. Any clue how much Thurmond weighed at that time?

In what ways does Chamberlains superior upper body strength give an edge over Shaq? If any. I could understand how someone would argue legs are more important, and theirs basically no doubting Shaq had stronger legs

[mehyaM24]

Wilt does that same move right here against a much better and more athletic defender

http://youtu.be/WdmYTdjCXpU?t=10m16s

Watch just a couple clips before too, hands directly on the ball on his dunk attempt.... just forces the ball through anyways. Sorry, Snaq was athletic but most of his 'power' came from being overweight and fat, people just bounced right off him. Wilt was stronger than Shaq and he was scuplted like a municipal statue.

that play was weak as hell. what are you even watching?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVsWuHblBwU
show me wilt doing this,please....that was the PLAYOFFS..see phil jackson clapping at :16?...do you know how often phil got excited over a play?!?!!? :oldlol:

here's another one: shaq with block and amazing fastbreak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz6EmBWGQnE) 34 YEAR OLD SHAQ in the playoffs,14th season..wilt retired after his 14th yr and he is making these plays while DRIBBLING the ball.

dwight is in shape,correct? a freak athlete. show me dwight making a play like that. we damn sure know wilt couldnt.

[aj1987]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Chamberlain was IMMENSELY stronger than Shaq.

I found it laughable that a while back Barkley challenged Shaq to a bench-press competition, and while Barkley's plates were fake, Shaq couldn't budge 405..and I mean couldn't budge it. Had he not had help, he would have died on that bench.

And yet there were eyewitness accounts of Chamberlain benching 465 lbs in his 50's. And even Arnold Terminator was stunned by the weights Chamberlain was working out with. A world-class body builder just amazed at what a true world-class athlete could do.

Of course, you can just google Chamberlain's strength, and the internet is just plastered with limitless accounts. Google Shaq's strength, and you are likely to get a video clip in which a Barkley throws him down like a rag doll, or even worse, Shaq's pansie punch (missed BTW) against Brad Miller.
PED's..

[CavaliersFTW]

that play was weak as hell. what are you even watching?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVsWuHblBwU
show me wilt doing this,please....that was the PLAYOFFS..see phil jackson clapping at :16?...do you know how often phil got excited over a play?!?!!? :oldlol:

here's another one: shaq with block and amazing fastbreak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz6EmBWGQnE) 34 YEAR OLD SHAQ in the playoffs,14th season..wilt retired after his 14th yr and he is making these plays while DRIBBLING the ball.

dwight is in shape,correct? a freak athlete. show me dwight making a play like that. we damn sure know wilt couldnt.
Oh you mean Phil Jackson? Same guy who recently compared the two and concluded Wilt was the better athlete of the two? :lol

I know you're Shaqpopcorn and I know how you operate, you try to get into link-posting wars. Problem is you never watch anyone elses links. Wilt is doing more impressive things in the video I posted than Shaq. Dropping dirk-one-leg fadeaways on people and you still believe Shaq was somehow better :oldlol:

Also, show me Shaq catching shots in mid air and performing a magic johnson-esq give and go alley-oop. This shit was Wilt at the age of SEVENTEEN, Shaq never could pull this off:
http://youtu.be/zukRbA3y0qo?t=3m6s

I know you won't watch it though. But others will. Sorry to ether you like that bud.

[mehyaM24]

:roll: you are ****ing delusional. so confused you think your sped-up editing is actually real. LMAO! please..dont ever compare wilts power to shaq. shaq didnt do boring dunks that go straight down. he gets his knees up. check this footage: shaq dunks on chris dudley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=258RK2F1N_I) (funny as hell) - if you pause is at the right moment at :04 dudleys face is about an inch from shaqs groin....

more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlQ19XoF-fQ - the footage doesnt lie....if you pause at the moment shaq falls to the ground, the rim is in his hand with glass coming down on his face.....that is sheer power. more power and athleticism than wilt has EVER displayed.

[CelticBaller]

Shaq>>>>

[Fudge]

Who the fck cares about Wilt or Shaq.

Quit living in the past and watch GOAT's like Kevin Durant or MCW, right now. It's halftime doe.

[CavaliersFTW]

:roll: you are ****ing delusional. so confused you think your sped-up editing is actually real. LMAO! please..dont ever compare wilts power to shaq. shaq didnt do boring dunks that go straight down. he gets his knees up...check this footage shaq dunks on chris dudley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=258RK2F1N_I) (funny as hell)....if you pause is at the right moment at :04 dudleys face is about an inch from shaqs groin....

more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlQ19XoF-fQ..the footage doesnt lie....if you pause at the moment shaq falls to the ground, the rim is in his hand with glass coming down on his face.....that is sheer power. more power and athleticism wilt has EVER displayed.
So Shaq performs a rim-violation according to 60's rules, how dare Wilt not break the rules of his era to showboat and look like a child hanging on the monkey bars at a playground - how impressive to see shaq throw his weight into a rim around AFTER the play was already over :oldlol:

Wilt used his strength on players... BEFORE the play was over. His feats of strength > Shaq's. Sorry.

[mehyaM24]

So Shaq performs a rim-violation according to 60's rules, how dare Wilt not break the rules of his era to showboat and look like an immature child :oldlol:

just watch your clips, unedited. it was so damn easy to score in wilts era. check the highest scoring seasons in nba history....in order...

1962
1961
1967
1970
1966
1960
1963 (tied at 115.3 ppg)
1971
1969

you realize wilt was in the nba in its 9 highest scoring years, right? and dont say wilt was a reason for that, either. 1970 was the 4th highest scoring season of alltime. wilt played 12 games all season. in his career, EVERY SINGLE TEAM averaged at least 100 pts....EVERY SINGLE YEAR! what a joke.

comparison isn't even fair. shaq is the true (and only) MDE. period.

[CavaliersFTW]

just watch your clips, unedited. it was so damn easy to score in wilts era. check the highest scoring seasons in nba history....in order...

1962
1961
1967
1970
1966
1960
1963 (tied at 115.3 ppg)
1971
1969

you realize wilt was in the nba in its 9 highest scoring years, right? and dont say wilt was a reason for that, either. 1970 was the 4th highest scoring season of alltime. wilt played 12 games all season. in his career, EVERY SINGLE TEAM averaged at least 100 pts....EVERY SINGLE YEAR! what a joke.

comparison isn't even fair. shaq is the true (and only) MDE. period.
less teams - more talent per team - more offensive punch

nothing is ever fair when you're trying to compare to Wilt - he's just that good

[mehyaM24]

less teams - more talent per team - more offensive punch

nothing is ever fair when you're trying to compare to Wilt - he's just that good

:rolleyes:

where was wilts "offensive punch" (22pts) in game 7 vs boston in 1962?...you know, the season he averaged 50.4ppg? :oldlol:

vintage wilt...absolutely classic

[LAZERUSS]

This is where we are going to have to disagree, I've seen videos of Wilt working out in like 1992-93 in a fitness video that's like a half hour long that no one here has seen....It's IMPOSSIBLE he was putting up that much weight at THAT age

That was just one EYEWITNESS BTW. But read Cherry's book on Chamberlain. Wilt was working out with a 6-5 250 lb guy by the name of Fluke Flucker, who supposedly was benching 500 lbs himself. "Even he was amazed at Wilt's strength." "He could curl 110 lb dumb-bells like you or I would pick up a telephone."

Of course, there was an SI article in 1964 in which it stated that Wilt could bench 400 lbs easily. And this was well before Chamberlain's peak weight and strength.

But it wasn't just the bench. It was EVERYTHING. Just google "Wilt's strength." Account-after-account of Chamberlain's staggering strength. Plastered all over the internet.

Where are those on Shaq? Again, I read a while back that Shaq was benching 440 lbs. Completely bogus. Again. He couldn't BUDGE 405 in that "bench-off" with Barkley. Granted, he is no longer in his prime, but I find it hard to believe that a 40 year old Shaq would have lost that much strength in a such a short period. I doubt he EVER did as much as 405, much less 440.

[CavaliersFTW]

That was just one EYEWITNESS BTW. But read Cherry's book on Chamberlain. Wilt was working out with a 6-5 250 lb guy by the name of Fluke Flucker, who supposedly was benching 500 lbs himself. "Even he was amazed at Wilt's strength." "He could curl 110 lb dumb-bells like you or I would pick up a telephone."

Of course, there was an SI article in 1964 in which it stated that Wilt could bench 400 lbs easily. And this was well before Chamberlain's peak weight and strength.

But it wasn't just the bench. It was EVERYTHING. Just google "Wilt's strength." Account-after-account of Chamberlain's staggering strength. Plastered all over the internet.

Where are those on Shaq? Again, I read a while back that Shaq was benching 440 lbs. Completely bogus. Again. He couldn't BUDGE 405 in that "bench-off" with Barkley. Granted, he is no longer in his prime, but I find it hard to believe that a 40 year old Shaq would have lost that much strength in a such a short period. I doubt he EVER did as much as 405, much less 440.
Dwight repped 360 a couple years ago, I bet Shaq really did top out his bench at 450 which is a figure I've read before. He's not like Wilt though, Wilt worked out all the time pretty much throughout his entire life. Shaq doesn't. If you don't use it, you do lose it. Shaq being at around 405 these days, less than his alleged max during his prime, doesn't surprise me, he's not a gym rat at heart.

[jongib369]

less teams - more talent per team - more offensive punch

nothing is ever fair when you're trying to compare to Wilt - he's just that good

Just for the sake of understanding your position, how do you think this team would fair today? It was a smaller league, with the way it sounds your logic would suggest this team would rip apart the NBA because of it's condensed talent.(before 1960 but the league couldnt of changed THAT much in 1-2 years) And it was a championship caliber team if not the one that won it all if Im not mistaken, didnt see a year. Even though I know it's not what you're suggesting, I just see why other people see it as such and have a hard time taking it seriously when you say every team had more condensed talent. It really sounds like you're suggest every team from back then and every player was of higher quality on average than today


http://i.ebayimg.com/11/!B+)y!M!EWk~$(KGrHqJ,!k4Ez+yVHS6yBN!u6z0DL!~~_3.JP G

I just dont get it when I see you rip Euroleague and post things like their players having a hard time adjusting to the NBA because of the athleticism, but never (that I saw) admit that a LOT of players from back then wouldn't make the league today because they'd have a hard time adjusting to the athletic difference as well.

Were the average white players that either started or on the bench from the 50's/60's superior to the mostly white European teams? Not counting star players Like West, Lucas etc.

http://oi41.tinypic.com/241nxc9.jpg

[jongib369]

That was just one EYEWITNESS BTW. But read Cherry's book on Chamberlain. Wilt was working out with a 6-5 250 lb guy by the name of Fluke Flucker, who supposedly was benching 500 lbs himself. "Even he was amazed at Wilt's strength." "He could curl 110 lb dumb-bells like you or I would pick up a telephone."

Of course, there was an SI article in 1964 in which it stated that Wilt could bench 400 lbs easily. And this was well before Chamberlain's peak weight and strength.

But it wasn't just the bench. It was EVERYTHING. Just google "Wilt's strength." Account-after-account of Chamberlain's staggering strength. Plastered all over the internet.

Where are those on Shaq? Again, I read a while back that Shaq was benching 440 lbs. Completely bogus. Again. He couldn't BUDGE 405 in that "bench-off" with Barkley. Granted, he is no longer in his prime, but I find it hard to believe that a 40 year old Shaq would have lost that much strength in a such a short period. I doubt he EVER did as much as 405, much less 440.
I don't doubt his strength of benching 400+ when he played, or even in the 80s when he looked to be almost bigger than he was when he played...But like I've said, from the tape I've seen of him in 91-3 when he was about 55...And it really looked like at THAt point it was just impossible for him. Not that he wasn't strong, it's just 465 seems to be way too high with what his body looked capable of at THAT point

[CavaliersFTW]

Just for the sake of understanding your position, how do you think this team would fair today? It was a smaller league, with the way it sounds your logic would suggest this team would rip apart the NBA because of it's condensed talent.(before 1960 but the league couldnt of changed THAT much in 1-2 years) And it was a championship caliber team if not the one that won it all if Im not mistaken, didnt see a year. Even though I know it's not what you're suggesting, I just see why other people see it as such and have a hard time taking it seriously when you say the team had more condensed talent. It really sounds like you're suggest every team from back then and every player was of higher quality than today


http://i.ebayimg.com/11/!B+)y!M!EWk~$(KGrHqJ,!k4Ez+yVHS6yBN!u6z0DL!~~_3.JP G

I just dont get it when I see you rip Euroleague and post things like their players having a hard time adjusting to the NBA because of the athleticism, but never (that I saw) admit that a LOT of players from back then wouldn't make the league today because they'd have a hard time adjusting to the athletic difference as well.

Were the average white players that either started or on the bench from the 50's/60's superior to the mostly white European teams? Not counting star players Like West, Lucas etc.

http://oi41.tinypic.com/241nxc9.jpg
Are you serious? Euroleague is a troll, therefore he gets trolled. Anything I've ever said directed at Euroleague isn't genuine I don't give 2 shits about that league. Come on now, I'd think you would know better :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

I don't doubt his strength of benching 400+ when he played, or even in the 80s when he looked to be almost bigger than he was when he played...But like I've said, from the tape I've seen of him in 91-3 when he was about 55...And it really looked like at THAt point it was just impossible for him. Not that he wasn't strong, it's just 465 seems to be way too high with what his body looked capable of at THAT point

This may give you a general idea...take a close look at his arms...especially at the 1:30 mark. He was 60 years old in 1997...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=173M7ApCNKw

[jongib369]

Are you serious? Euroleague is a troll, therefore he gets trolled. Anything I've ever said directed at Euroleague isn't genuine I don't give 2 shits about that league. Come on now, I'd think you would know better :oldlol:
http://oi41.tinypic.com/241nxc9.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

I don't doubt his strength of benching 400+ when he played, or even in the 80s when he looked to be almost bigger than he was when he played...But like I've said, from the tape I've seen of him in 91-3 when he was about 55...And it really looked like at THAt point it was just impossible for him. Not that he wasn't strong, it's just 465 seems to be way too high with what his body looked capable of at THAT point
I have the tape you speak of jongib, he isn't struggling to lift any of the weight he lifted and you are here acting like that because the weight he was lifting on that tape was relatively low, much lower than say his alleged feats of strength were, that that must be representative of his strength at that time? No, hell no. He's taken 4 hours out of his day some random day in the 90's to be filming for some fitness VHS to make a check so he's just doing short takes on camera for whatever weight they had laying around in their studio gym... you really think for some average joe exercise tape they wanted Wilt to pile on a bunch of weight on say, a bench press, and have him max out? Use common sense man, those are basically just the equivilant of props he's using on that tape. He curls what, a 25lb dumbell in it? My mother can do that. He wasn't showing off his strength for that tape :lol

[jongib369]

This may give you a general idea...take a close look at his arms...especially at the 1:30 mark. He was 60 years old in 1997...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=173M7ApCNKw
He is pretty damn big, he actually almost looks bigger than he was in the fitness video I mentioned. Which is surprising considering that's closer to his death and when his heart problems really started getting bad. 465 is just SO ****ing much it sounds ridiculous. But is IS Wilt. I still have my reservations, but if anyone could at that age it's him

[CavaliersFTW]

http://oi41.tinypic.com/241nxc9.jpg
I see it now. :oldlol:

[Lebron23]

Give me Shaquille O'Neal. Wilt was the 4th or 5th scoring option when his team won the championships while Shaq was the alpha male, and the numero scoring option.

[jongib369]

I have the tape you speak of jongib, he isn't struggling to lift any of the weight he lifted and you are here acting like that because the weight he was lifting on that tape was relatively low, much lower than say his alleged feats of strength were, that that must be representative of his strength at that time? No, hell no. He's taken 4 hours out of his day some random day in the 90's to be filming for some fitness VHS to make a check so he's just doing short takes on camera for whatever weight they had laying around in their studio gym... you really think for some average joe exercise tape they wanted Wilt to pile on a bunch of weight on say, a bench press, and have him max out? Use common sense man, those are basically just the equivilant of props he's using on that tape. He curls what, a 25lb dumbell in it? My mother can do that. :lol
Of course I'm not suggesting he was maxing out XD. I'm just saying it doesn't look like at THAT point he could with the way his body looked. In the 80s hell yeah, but by the 90s I doubted it.

Btw, I was just trolling you in the other post. Idk if you could tell but that micro pic is the "u mad" troll face

[LAZERUSS]

Give me Shaquille O'Neal. Wilt was the 4th or 5th scoring option when his team won the championships while Shaq was the alpha male, and the numero scoring option.

So a Wilt that carried absolutely putrid rosters to near monumental upsets of the greatest dynasty in NBA history, and who routinely dumped 30-40+ games on Russell, gets discredited.

BTW, think about this...in Wilt's "scoring" prime (and again, he had Gthe cast of Gilligan's Island as his teammates), he had playoff series against Russell of 30.5 ppg (on .500 shooting...in a post-season NBA that shot .402 overall), 33.6 ppg, 29.2 ppg on a .517 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot .420); 30.1 ppg on a .555 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot an eFG% of .429), and 28.0 ppg on .509 shooting.

Now, how about a prime Shaq's numbers vs his biggest defensive rival, the Spurs?

23.8 ppg on .493.
27.0 ppg on .541.
21.4 ppg on .441.
25.3 ppg on .559.
22.5 ppg on .635.

Hmmm...where were Shaq's 30 ppg series? He was never even close.

And BTW, a prime Chamberlain never faced a Todd McCullough or Rik Smits in any of his Finals, either. Or put up a horrible playoff series like a prime Shaq did against an Ostertag for cryingoutloud.

[CavaliersFTW]

Of course I'm not suggesting he was maxing out XD. I'm just saying it doesn't look like at THAT point he could with the way his body looked. In the 80s hell yeah, but by the 90s I doubted it.

Btw, I was just trolling you in the other post. Idk if you could tell but that micro pic is the "u mad" troll face
Strength is one of the last things to leave a man. I don't know what gives you any indication from that footage that he wasn't still immensely strong. His mobility from the waist down is clearly reduced when he's jogging, but I'm not surprised by that seeing as how he was supposed to have hip surgery later in the 90's. His upper body still looks very big... like, he still looks huge in the volleyball footage. Also the video JL posted. I also have more footage of Wilt in the 90's that shows him being absolutely massive. Actually, that VHS is right around the time he shook hands with Shaq and he's bigger than Shaq. No reason to suspect he had a weak upper body at that time IMO.

[jongib369]

I have the tape you speak of jongib, he isn't struggling to lift any of the weight he lifted and you are here acting like that because the weight he was lifting on that tape was relatively low, much lower than say his alleged feats of strength were, that that must be representative of his strength at that time? No, hell no. He's taken 4 hours out of his day some random day in the 90's to be filming for some fitness VHS to make a check so he's just doing short takes on camera for whatever weight they had laying around in their studio gym... you really think for some average joe exercise tape they wanted Wilt to pile on a bunch of weight on say, a bench press, and have him max out? Use common sense man, those are basically just the equivilant of props he's using on that tape. He curls what, a 25lb dumbell in it? My mother can do that. He wasn't showing off his strength for that tape :lol

DO YOU HAVE VIDEO EVIDENCE!? This discredits everything you said.

[jongib369]

Strength is one of the last things to leave a man. I don't know what gives you any indication from that footage that he wasn't still immensely strong. His mobility from the waist down is clearly reduced when he's jogging, but I'm not surprised by that seeing as how he was supposed to have hip surgery later in the 90's. His upper body still looks very big... like, he still looks huge in the volleyball footage. Also the video JL posted. I also have more footage of Wilt in the 90's that shows him being absolutely massive. Actually, that VHS is right around the time he shook hands with Shaq and he's bigger than Shaq. No reason to suspect he had a weak upper body at that time IMO.
Oh I'm not suggesting he had a weak upper body, hell no haha. I'm just doubting it was as high as 465 at the point of the VHS....He's still huge, I'm not suggesting he'd bench any less than 350. 350-400, So 50+ and still stronger than prime Dwight

Btw, do you have any plans of putting any footage of that tape on youtube? Not many people would be interested but I bet some would.

[jongib369]

That was just one EYEWITNESS BTW. But read Cherry's book on Chamberlain. Wilt was working out with a 6-5 250 lb guy by the name of Fluke Flucker, who supposedly was benching 500 lbs himself. "Even he was amazed at Wilt's strength." "He could curl 110 lb dumb-bells like you or I would pick up a telephone."

Of course, there was an SI article in 1964 in which it stated that Wilt could bench 400 lbs easily. And this was well before Chamberlain's peak weight and strength.

But it wasn't just the bench. It was EVERYTHING. Just google "Wilt's strength." Account-after-account of Chamberlain's staggering strength. Plastered all over the internet.

Where are those on Shaq? Again, I read a while back that Shaq was benching 440 lbs. Completely bogus. Again. He couldn't BUDGE 405 in that "bench-off" with Barkley. Granted, he is no longer in his prime, but I find it hard to believe that a 40 year old Shaq would have lost that much strength in a such a short period. I doubt he EVER did as much as 405, much less 440.

If it's true that's ****ing scary. To be blunt

[CavaliersFTW]

Oh I'm not suggesting he had a weak upper body, hell no haha. I'm just doubting it was as high as 465 at the point of the VHS....He's still huge, I'm not suggesting he'd bench any less than 350. 350-400, So 50+ and still stronger than prime Dwight

Btw, do you have any plans of putting any footage of that tape on youtube? Not many people would be interested but I bet some would.
He's bigger than Shaq in his upper body at that time, and Shaq was bigger than Dwight when Dwight was repping 360... I have no doubt he was doing a lot more than 350.

[jongib369]

Strength is one of the last things to leave a man. I don't know what gives you any indication from that footage that he wasn't still immensely strong. His mobility from the waist down is clearly reduced when he's jogging, but I'm not surprised by that seeing as how he was supposed to have hip surgery later in the 90's. His upper body still looks very big... like, he still looks huge in the volleyball footage. Also the video JL posted. I also have more footage of Wilt in the 90's that shows him being absolutely massive. Actually, that VHS is right around the time he shook hands with Shaq and he's bigger than Shaq. No reason to suspect he had a weak upper body at that time IMO.
TBH it's been months since I last had a look at it....And I kinda zommed through because at one point a girl walked by (I was watching it on my colleges study room, I didnt have a VHS) as it was zoomed in on some girls butt so I sped through it and turned it off as soon as possible. So no one thinks I have a fetish for 90s workout videos

[jongib369]

He's bigger than Shaq in his upper body at that time, and Shaq was bigger than Dwight when Dwight was repping 360... I have no doubt he was doing a lot more than 350.
You're probably right, it's just one of those things that sound so crazy if it wasn't Wilt you'd call BS haha

[CavaliersFTW]

Don't cast doubt on old man strength... Wilt's upper body is still bigger at this time than Dwight's has ever been. Note, size is not the same as definition - Wilt was rockin a small gut at this time so I'm sure he was lacking in the department of 'definition' but that isn't the same as raw size and strength. The guy's upper body was HUGE. He would have outlifted Shaq and Dwight at that time still, I don't doubt he could put up 465 even at that time:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fgF2UTkYk4I/UuR-b-JG3hI/AAAAAAAAE6Q/w8hk0jPA1Hg/s400/Sequence%252001.Still015.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EFVpvsSUCuo/UuR-cU-q5II/AAAAAAAAE6M/lbigvSh2SHc/s400/Sequence%252001.Still016.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZSS4UHjiUHw/UuSAVKY4Q6I/AAAAAAAAE7I/QJe2E8SWkRU/s400/Sequence%252001.Still017.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kf1oH-0whOs/UuR-cdmKiFI/AAAAAAAAE6U/KD3ax8zaR84/s400/Sequence%252001.Still009.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eG1BkGUxBJQ/UuR-dQzu_EI/AAAAAAAAE60/rWaTkdmA2Yw/s400/Sequence%252001.Still011.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sVBcUqDhw3Q/UuR-dDmczSI/AAAAAAAAE7E/kSgXolqiReo/s400/Sequence%252001.Still012.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hV0d7sP6YaU/UuR-dcmQBkI/AAAAAAAAE64/eTAaHfZeZq4/s400/Sequence%252001.Still014.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_RbM5tlSNEg/UuR-cxdfoJI/AAAAAAAAE6w/RG6aMUSjykE/s400/Sequence%252001.Still013.jpg

[jongib369]

Don't cast doubt on old man strength... Wilt's upper body is still bigger at this time than Dwight's has ever been. Note, size is not the same as definition - Wilt was rockin a small gut at this time so I'm sure he was lacking in the department of 'definition' but that isn't the same as raw size and strength. The guy's upper body was HUGE. He would have outlifted Shaq and Dwight at that time still, I don't doubt he could put up 465 even at that time:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fgF2UTkYk4I/UuR-b-JG3hI/AAAAAAAAE6Q/w8hk0jPA1Hg/s400/Sequence%252001.Still015.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EFVpvsSUCuo/UuR-cU-q5II/AAAAAAAAE6M/lbigvSh2SHc/s400/Sequence%252001.Still016.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZSS4UHjiUHw/UuSAVKY4Q6I/AAAAAAAAE7I/QJe2E8SWkRU/s400/Sequence%252001.Still017.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kf1oH-0whOs/UuR-cdmKiFI/AAAAAAAAE6U/KD3ax8zaR84/s400/Sequence%252001.Still009.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eG1BkGUxBJQ/UuR-dQzu_EI/AAAAAAAAE60/rWaTkdmA2Yw/s400/Sequence%252001.Still011.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sVBcUqDhw3Q/UuR-dDmczSI/AAAAAAAAE7E/kSgXolqiReo/s400/Sequence%252001.Still012.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hV0d7sP6YaU/UuR-dcmQBkI/AAAAAAAAE64/eTAaHfZeZq4/s400/Sequence%252001.Still014.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_RbM5tlSNEg/UuR-cxdfoJI/AAAAAAAAE6w/RG6aMUSjykE/s400/Sequence%252001.Still013.jpg

:eek:

Okay yeah, you're right LOL. The man looks like he could STILL contribute if he wanted to play. Not a starter or anything, but in a Gref Oden Esque type of roll no doubt...Jesus

[CavaliersFTW]

:eek:

Okay yeah, you're right LOL. The man looks like he could STILL contribute if he wanted to play. Not a starter or anything, but in a Gref Oden Esque type of roll no doubt...Jesus
Despite his bad hip, he could still dunk quite easily, though I guess that's to be expected when you're standing reach is 9-7 :lol
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IdFmlyfG5w4/UuR-c3rYN1I/AAAAAAAAE6s/6EYPgJs5XrE/s400/Sequence%252001.Still010.jpg

[jongib369]

Despite his bad hip, he could still dunk quite easily, though I guess that's to be expected when you're standing reach is 9-7 :lol
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IdFmlyfG5w4/UuR-c3rYN1I/AAAAAAAAE6s/6EYPgJs5XrE/s400/Sequence%252001.Still010.jpg
Where is that clip from?

including these

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hV0d7sP6YaU/UuR-dcmQBkI/AAAAAAAAE64/eTAaHfZeZq4/s400/Sequence%252001.Still014.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fgF2UTkYk4I/UuR-b-JG3hI/AAAAAAAAE6Q/w8hk0jPA1Hg/s400/Sequence%252001.Still015.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

Where is that clip from?

including these

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hV0d7sP6YaU/UuR-dcmQBkI/AAAAAAAAE64/eTAaHfZeZq4/s400/Sequence%252001.Still014.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fgF2UTkYk4I/UuR-b-JG3hI/AAAAAAAAE6Q/w8hk0jPA1Hg/s400/Sequence%252001.Still015.jpg
Some corny tv show he made a cameo in, can't remember the name, he didn't actually dunk that shot either he layed it in soft but he got plenty high - he legit reverse dunks in the image you linked though. That's from that VHS tape. Also, the easy sneaker shoe commercial or w/e he dunks over some dude while in business attire :lol

[CavaliersFTW]

This one

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--sSMUAeTTMs/UuSGZQfi_nI/AAAAAAAAE7c/9Fq6OusxpqY/s400/Sequence%252001.Still018.jpg

:lol

[jongib369]

Some corny tv show he made a cameo in, can't remember the name, he didn't actually dunk that shot either he layed it in soft but he got plenty high - he legit reverse dunks in the image you linked though. That's from that VHS tape. Also, the easy sneaker shoe commercial or w/e he dunks over some dude while in business attire :lol

haha I've seen that. Cracked up when they zoomed in on the nice shoes....You should put some clips together of him at that age including everything you showed me

[CavaliersFTW]

haha I've seen that. Cracked up when they zoomed in on the nice shoes....You should put some clips together of him at that age including everything you showed me
I was thinking about it, he got his last NBA offers that I'm aware of at the age of 54 in 1990... I could maybe do another vid like I did of Wilt at 50... this one of "Wilt at 54... STILL getting NBA offers" :lol

[GoranDragon]

Wilt wouldn't have 2 rings in our era let alone Shaq's.

Dwight would stop Wilt from doing anything, and Shaq would abuse Wilt so hard he invents a time machine to go back to playing with skinny unathletic white guys.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt wouldn't have 2 rings in our era let alone Shaq's.

Dwight would stop Wilt from doing anything, and Shaq would abuse Wilt so hard he invents a time machine to go back to playing with skinny unathletic white guys.
Shaq looks about Bob Laniers size right here:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZSS4UHjiUHw/UuSAVKY4Q6I/AAAAAAAAE7I/QJe2E8SWkRU/s400/Sequence%252001.Still017.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kf1oH-0whOs/UuR-cdmKiFI/AAAAAAAAE6U/KD3ax8zaR84/s400/Sequence%252001.Still009.jpg

As Sonny Hill once shouted during an interview: "Wilt would take Shaq, and MOVE HIM AROUND LIKE HE WAS A RAG DOLL!"

:applause: :lol

It just sounds so funny... Til you see pics of how massive Wilt was :wtf: :wtf: :eek:

That just might have happened had they played each other.

[jongib369]

I was thinking about it, he got his last NBA offers that I'm aware of at the age of 54 in 1990... I could maybe do another vid like I did of Wilt at 50... this one of "Wilt at 54... STILL getting NBA offers" :lol

By which team?

This dispels any myth that Karl Malone or Kareem were the "Iron Men"...

http://mit.zenfs.com/207/2011/05/WiltKAJ.jpg

It looks like Kareems the one that retired in the 70s

[GoranDragon]

CavaliersFTW trying his hardest to salvage what legacy Wilt still has left.:lol

2 rings in an era where Bill Russell won 11.:roll: :lol :oldlol:

[jongib369]

Shaq looks about Bob Laniers size right here:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZSS4UHjiUHw/UuSAVKY4Q6I/AAAAAAAAE7I/QJe2E8SWkRU/s400/Sequence%252001.Still017.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kf1oH-0whOs/UuR-cdmKiFI/AAAAAAAAE6U/KD3ax8zaR84/s400/Sequence%252001.Still009.jpg

As Sonny Hill once shouted during an interview: "Wilt would take Shaq, and MOVE HIM AROUND LIKE HE WAS A RAG DOLL!"

:applause: :lol

It just sounds so funny... Til you see pics of how massive Wilt was :wtf: :wtf: :eek:

That just might have happened had they played each other.
Honestly, consider making that video. It wouldn't take long either

http://gifs.gifbin.com/1234525508_ben_stiller_-_do_it.gif

[CavaliersFTW]

By which team?

This dispels any myth that Karl Malone or Kareem were the "Iron Men"...

http://mit.zenfs.com/207/2011/05/WiltKAJ.jpg

It looks like Kareems the one that retired in the 70s
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DCHFLQPybh0/UkT9A1arHaI/AAAAAAAAEsw/uipXSh1j3Hk/s800/Jet%2520Magazine%2520Feb%252025%25201991%2520Wilt% 2520recruited%2520to%2520play%2520at%2520age%25205 4.jpg

[Dr.J4ever]

Defenses were much cruder? Are you kidding me? There was no three point line back then, so the lanes were much more compact, and it was much easier to sag or double players quickly. Furthermore, KAJ had seasons in the 70's when he shot .539, .529, .518, and even .513 (in the middle of the decade.) And, yet, he would never shoot less than .564 in the first eight years of the decade of the 80's. And again, he seldom shot 50% against Wilt or Nate, and often shot below 40% against them, and yet a 38-41 year old Kareem not only outscored a 23-26 year old Hakeem in their 23 H2H's, he outshot him by a .607 to .512 margin. And please, don't bring up the '86 WCF's, when it was SAMPSON who was tasked with defending KAJ (and Hakeem doubling.)

Again, the best defensive centers of the 60's (and these centers were not in their primes, either) gave Kareem FAR more trouble than the best defensive centers of the 90's.
I can't believe that you won't concede that defenses were much cruder back then, as Charley Rosen(a witness) said. Please don't compare the 70s or even the 80s as those 2 decades were decades of the big man and post up basketball, in general. In fact, there was no regular season MVP other than a center until Doc won it in '81(since the Big O in the 60s I believe)..

The 90s started being more aggressive with post up basketball, and today, because of the rules, it is very difficult to score consistently from the post. Just from watching 60s film highlights, it is very easy to detect less aggressive double teams and more single coverage in the post.. You have had to notice this?

Look, Wilt played vs. legends. That's a fact, but defensive schemes were simpler and less sophisticated as well. Fact also.

[LAZERUSS]

By which team?

This dispels any myth that Karl Malone or Kareem were the "Iron Men"...

http://mit.zenfs.com/207/2011/05/WiltKAJ.jpg

It looks like Kareems the one that retired in the 70s

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Just a great post!!!!

I don't think there is any question that a retired Wilt looked to be in a lot better shape than a playing Kareem.

[LAZERUSS]

I can't believe that you won't concede that defenses were much cruder back then, as Charley Rosen(a witness) said. Please don't compare the 70s or even the 80s as those 2 decades were decades of the big man and post up basketball, in general. In fact, there was no regular season MVP other than a center until Doc won it in '81(since the Big O in the 60s I believe)..

The 90s started being more aggressive with post up basketball, and today, because of the rules, it is very difficult to score consistently from the post. Just from watching 60s film highlights, it is very easy to detect less aggressive double teams and more single coverage in the post.. You have had to notice this?

Look, Wilt played vs. legends. That's a fact, but defensive schemes were simpler and less sophisticated as well. Fact also.

Well, maybe you can ask Rosen to explain why a peak Kareem struggled so much against the best centers of the 60's, and yet as a 39 year old, was just crushing the best centers of the 90's.

BTW, how about what Chamberlain faced in his career...

scroll down a few posts...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301794&page=2

[Marchesk]

just watch your clips, unedited. it was so damn easy to score in wilts era. check the highest scoring seasons in nba history....in order...

1962
1961
1967
1970
1966
1960
1963 (tied at 115.3 ppg)
1971
1969

you realize wilt was in the nba in its 9 highest scoring years, right? and dont say wilt was a reason for that, either. 1970 was the 4th highest scoring season of alltime. wilt played 12 games all season. in his career, EVERY SINGLE TEAM averaged at least 100 pts....EVERY SINGLE YEAR! what a joke.

comparison isn't even fair. shaq is the true (and only) MDE. period.

Then why did Shaq only lead the league in scoring twice and never in rebounding or blocked shots? MDE at knocking people over on the way to wowing everyone with powerful dunks? Sure. MDE in his 3 peat finals performance? Maybe, although MJ has a case there. But MDE ever over a season or career? No way in hell. Wilt has him beat by a mile. So does MJ. Shaq's best season isn't as good as Kareem's or McAdoo's. It's not better than Baylor's either, although that was a shortened season for him. And then there's Oscar's triple double season.

In that high scoring era, Wilt was the only one to score 40+. He led the league by 12 points the year he went for 50. He was the leading scorer as a rookie and the next six season in a row. Shaq did not statistically dominate the way Wilt did. Nobody ever has for that matter.

[LAZERUSS]

Then why did Shaq only lead the league in scoring twice and never in rebounding or blocked shots? MDE at knocking people over on the way to wowing everyone with powerful dunks? Sure. MDE in his 3 peat finals performance? Maybe, although MJ has a case there. But MDE ever over a season or career? No way in hell. Wilt has him beat by a mile. So does MJ. Shaq's best season isn't as good as Kareem's or McAdoo's. It's not better than Baylor's either, although that was a shortened season for him.

In that high scoring era, Wilt was the only one to score 40+. He led the league by 12 points the year he went for 50. He was the leading scorer as a rookie and the next six season in a row. Shaq did not statistically dominate the way Wilt did. Nobody ever has for that matter.

Great point.

I can tell you this much...there is no way in hell that the NBA would have allowed Wilt to do this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

Of course, he COULD have. Had Chamberlain played with that kind of ferocity, they would have been carrying players out in body-bags.

[Marchesk]

Great point.

I can tell you this much...there is no way in hell that the NBA would have allowed Wilt to do this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

Of course, he COULD have. Had Chamberlain played with that kind of ferocity, they would have been carrying players out in body-bags.

That always brings a chuckle. I do miss Shaq though. The league needs a dominate big.

[Dr.J4ever]

Well, maybe you can ask Rosen to explain why a peak Kareem struggled so much against the best centers of the 60's, and yet as a 39 year old, was just crushing the best centers of the 90's.

BTW, how about what Chamberlain faced in his career...

scroll down a few posts...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301794&page=2
I would tell you myself, but you won't believe me. KAJ had a more accurate skyhook in the 80s.. After watching some game of Alcindor in the 70s, he had more moves overall, but his skyhook seemed less developed. By the 80s or maybe the late 1970s, KAJ's skyhook became his signature.

KAJ's more accurate skyhook increased his FG%. You made my point.

[CavaliersFTW]

I would tell you myself, but you won't believe me. KAJ had a more accurate skyhook in the 80s.. After watching some game of Alcindor in the 70s, he had more moves overall, but his skyhook seemed less developed. By the 80s or maybe the late 1970s, KAJ's skyhook became his signature.

KAJ's more accurate skyhook increased his FG%. You made my point.
His skyhook was perfected in gradeschool as a child doing the Mikan drill my man, perfected. He tells people this all the time in interviews, they ask him when did he develop that hook shot. It is your imagination if you think it was 'less accurate' at any point you've watched him be it high school footage or his final NBA season. He had it down pat that entire span. If you subtract Wilt Chamberlain and Nate Thurmond from the NBA in the early 70's, Alcindor was shooting over 60% on everybody else. Those two defensive powerhouses though were holding him to well under 50% and they played each other so often back then it brought his season/playoff averages down. Nobody could defend him like that in the 80's, thus it got inflated.

[LAZERUSS]

I'll take THIS Kareem (actual Alcindor) over any 80's version of KAJ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_uAJlWP0lQ

BTW, Reed was a great player back then, as well. As were Oscar, and Frazier. Oh, and watch Jon McGlocklin shoot. He would have been a great 3pt shooter in this era.

[Dr.J4ever]

His skyhook was perfected in gradeschool as a child doing the Mikan drill my man, perfected. He tells people this all the time in interviews, they ask him when did he develop that hook shot. It is your imagination if you think it was 'less accurate' at any point you've watched him be it high school footage or his final NBA season. He had it down pat that entire span. If you subtract Wilt Chamberlain and Nate Thurmond from the NBA in the early 70's, Alcindor was shooting over 60% on everybody else. Those two defensive powerhouses though were holding him to well under 50% and they played each other so often back then it brought his season/playoff averages down. Nobody could defend him like that in the 80's, thus it got inflated.
Well okay, I won't belabor the point.. Agree to disagree.. Wilt vs Shaq? Who really knows? I just hope you guys will concede on the less sophisticated post up defense argument.. To me, that looks pretty clear. Wilt was awesome and all, but defensive philosophies were still being developed..

[LAZERUSS]

Well okay, I won't belabor the point.. Agree to disagree.. Wilt vs Shaq? Who really knows? I just hope you guys will concede on the less sophisticated post up defense argument.. To me, that looks pretty clear. Wilt was awesome and all, but defensive philosophies were still being developed..

Just curious...did you take the time to read about what Chamberlain faced in his career (and keep in mind, that some of that info came from a pro-Celtic writer...)?

Incidently, I consider you a very good poster. So, yes, we can agree to disagree.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wilt would make Shaq look like Rik Smits during the '00 Finals. Nobody has ever had the combination of size, strength, and athleticism like Chamberlain did.

[GoranDragon]

Wilt would make Shaq look like Rik Smits during the '00 Finals. Nobody has ever had the combination of size, strength, and athleticism like Chamberlain did.
I hope you're just trolling. Shaq would EAT Wilt alive and it won't be pretty.

[CavaliersFTW]

I hope you're just trolling. Shaq would EAT Wilt alive and it won't be pretty.
In his case, he actually is trolling - he's not on team Wilt he's been pretending the past week or two for god knows why :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I hope you're just trolling. Shaq would EAT Wilt alive and it won't be pretty.
Wilt would throw around Shaq like a ragdoll.

[jongib369]

In his case, he actually is trolling - he's not on team Wilt he's been pretending the past week or two for god knows why :oldlol:
I'm just noticing this now and I seriously can't stop cracking up

We broke him

[GoranDragon]

Wilt would throw around Shaq like a ragdoll.
No he won't. Shaq would MANDHANDLE Wilt and it's not a debate. Peak Shaq will own Wilt's soul. Hell, even Bill Russell owns Wilt's soul.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt would throw around Shaq like a ragdoll.
Sincerity meter registers zero... stop pretending to be a Wilt fan, that avy pic too :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm just noticing this now and I seriously can't stop cracking up

We broke him
I think he's tryna mess with Lazeruss/JL, Lazeruss hasn't noticed yet though :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

I think he's tryna mess with Lazeruss/JL, Lazeruss hasn't noticed yet though :oldlol:

Oh I noticed it a while back. I even made the comment that he either came to his senses, or his account was hacked.

But, as it is, there is nothing to argue with him about right now...

[Deuce Bigalow]

No he won't. Shaq would MANDHANDLE Wilt and it's not a debate. Peak Shaq will own Wilt's soul. Hell, even Bill Russell owns Wilt's soul.
Wilt could bench press at least 500 pounds, Shaq could not reach 450. Wilt out-scored, out-rebounded, and shot a higher percentage than Bill Russell in all their H2H matchups so no Bill did not "manhandle" him, Wilt manhandled him in fact.

[CavaliersFTW]

Oh I noticed it a while back. I even made the comment that he either came to his senses, or his account was hacked.
Millwad did something similar in your absence :lol

He actually claimed he was you.

[GoranDragon]

Wilt could bench press at least 500 pounds, Shaq could not reach 450. Wilt out-scored, out-rebounded, and shot a higher percentage than Bill Russell in all their H2H matchups so no Bill did not "manhandle" him, Wilt manhandled him in fact.
Wilt ended his career with 2 rings against his rivals' 11. Bill Russell has more than 5x the rings Wilt has. That is a joke.

Don't get me started on Shaq. Prime Shaq, heck, even Orlando Shaq would own Wilt's soul and make him cry.

[LAZERUSS]

Millwad did something similar in your absence :lol

He actually claimed he was you.

Pretty creepy character...

[Deuce Bigalow]

In his case, he actually is trolling - he's not on team Wilt he's been pretending the past week or two for god knows why :oldlol:
I do not recall this.

[LAZERUSS]

I do not recall this.

BTW, I never complimented you on your new avatar...

[jongib369]

Millwad did something similar in your absence :lol

He actually claimed he was you.
I actually claimed he was my father when I first joined, people were like "Oh god another Jlauber"

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/lol.gif

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wilt ended his career with 2 rings against his rivals' 11. Bill Russell has more than 5x the rings Wilt has. That is a joke.

Don't get me started on Shaq. Prime Shaq, heck, even Orlando Shaq would own Wilt's soul and make him cry.
Rings are TEAM accomplishments.

And the funny thing is that you are a LeStan, and you're using the rings argument :oldlol: The irony is strong.

[Deuce Bigalow]

BTW, I never complimented you on your new avatar...
Wilt was a very handsome man.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt was a very handsome man.

I think I am beginning to miss the old Duece...

[jongib369]

Rings are TEAM accomplishments.

And the funny thing is that you are a LeStan, and you're using the rings argument :oldlol: The irony is strong.


:bowdown:

How many rings would had Kobe won had he not played with that ragdoll Shaq, but with Wilt instead?

[GoranDragon]

:bowdown:

How many rings would had Kobe won had he not played with that ragdoll Shaq, but with Wilt instead?
0.

[CavaliersFTW]

:bowdown:

How many rings would had Kobe won had he not played with that ragdoll Shaq, but with Wilt instead?
Trying his absolute hardest not to break character now :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

I think I am beginning to miss the old Duece...
Who's Duece?

You cannot deny the great facial aesthetics of Chamberlain, plus he has the great GOATee and a 7 foot 1 frame.

[jongib369]

0.
6-7. Wilt's ego would of never collided with Kobe, especially with Phil as coach.

Lets agree to disagree. But I will Say this, the man in your profile pic, and Toni Kukoc are the TRUE GOATS

[jongib369]

Trying his absolute hardest not to break character now :lol
*How many rings would kobe had won being carried by Wilt Instead of Shaq

[Deuce Bigalow]

:bowdown:

How many rings would had Kobe won had he not played with that ragdoll Shaq, but with Wilt instead?
They may as well cancel the league if that happened. They would probably stop at 10 championships in a row before the league gets cancelled.

[jongib369]

Millwad did something similar in your absence :lol

He actually claimed he was you.
What if it was an act before, and he's actually the biggest stan of us all

https://31.media.tumblr.com/517bb0ef60fce8c15fdebffead779728/tumblr_inline_mzzpdb7Jn71qi6gh3.gif

[Marchesk]

ou cannot deny the great facial aesthetics of Chamberlain, plus he has the great GOATee and a 7 foot 1 frame.

:lol

[Psileas]

When Deuce is trolling, he's 10 times more correct than when he posts for real.

[Dr.J4ever]

Just curious...did you take the time to read about what Chamberlain faced in his career (and keep in mind, that some of that info came from a pro-Celtic writer...)?

Incidently, I consider you a very good poster. So, yes, we can agree to disagree.
Thank you.. I consider you and CAVS two very important posters who provide compelling arguments for the guys from the 60s(stuff we never hear anywhere else).. BTW, I did read the link from ISH you provided on double teams and all. I stand by my contention that double teams were less aggressive on the big men from the 80s, 70s, and 60s.. Going from personal experience, double teams on the 80s big men like Moses and KAJ were less effective than they are today despite the courts being spread out more due to 3point shooting. Defensive schemes and philosophies were just different.

On the other hand, there are no centers close to KAJ or Moses in today's game.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

When Deuce is trolling, he's 10 times more correct than when he posts for real.
seems to be similar with every Kobe stan:lol :lol

[LAZERUSS]

The two ultimate "what-if's"...

A prime Chamberlain against a prime KAJ, and a prime Chamberlain vs. a prime Shaq...

[jongib369]

The two ultimate "what-if's"...

A prime Chamberlain against a prime KAJ, and a prime Chamberlain vs. a prime Shaq...
The real question is, which would be the more entertaining matchup...

Prime Kareem VS prime Wilt....Or College Wilt VS college Kareem....

Normally, when they're more polished it'd be the better matchup, but they were so freakin althetic in college (Especially wilt, with added range) It might of been even more exciting....

Imagine if their careers panned out in the 80s, or even now....And Wilt did something like THIS to kareems hook

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDMCh5HrcG0


It'd be one of the most replayed highlights ever

[LAZERUSS]

The real question is, which would be the more entertaining matchup...

Prime Kareem VS prime Wilt....Or College Wilt VS college Kareem....

Normally, when they're more polished it'd be the better matchup, but they were so freakin althetic in college (Especially wilt, with added range) It might of been even more exciting....

Imagine if their careers panned out in the 80s, or even now....And Wilt did something like THIS to kareems hook

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDMCh5HrcG0


It'd be one of the most replayed highlights ever

I'll be bluntly honest here. A prime Chamberlain would have dominated a prime KAJ. Kareem night have been able to score some, but a peak Wilt would have outscored, outrebounded, outshot, out-passed, and outblocked him by a good margin.

[jongib369]

I'll be bluntly honest here. A prime Chamberlain would have dominated a prime KAJ. Kareem night have been able to score some, but a peak Wilt would have outscored, outrebounded, outshot, out-passed, and outblocked him by a good margin.
That's exactly why I don't get how people rate him over Wilt. The only thing he has is he's more skilled in the post, but that doesn't mean much when you have someone who can score just as much doing less with a higher FG% while outdoing him in every other category too.

People seem to be slowly getting away from adding too much weight to team accomplishments thankfully

[Sharmer]

not sure why some posters think wilt > shaq.

wilt's play completely fell off in the playoffs and one of his two rings came from riding jerry west's coattails.

here are the facts:
wilt = 23.6 points per 36 minutes; shaq= 24.6 points per 36 minutes
-shaq scored more points per minute
-shaq shot a higher fg%
-shaq has taken 20+ fgas in TWO career seasons,both ending in scoring titles...while wilt jacked up 39.5 fgas per game in 62(also had a season where he missed 19FGA!!!)

again, in the playoffs, wilt was a 22.5 ppg scorer in 47.2 mpg - shaq = 24.3 ppg in 37.5 mpg in his playoff career.

shaq has a higher career fg% AND ft% in both the reg.season and playoffs, was a better postseason performer, finals performer and has more rings against better competition.

:confusedshrug:

different eras. Comparison don't mean shit. Wilt did average 50/20 in one year :wtf:

[Marlo Stanfield]

Shaq.

[TheMagicMan]

Easy. The guy that played against real competition (hint: it's not Wilt).

[CavaliersFTW]

Easy. The guy that played against real competition (hint: it's not Wilt).
So the guy that dunked Chris Dudley out of bounds is better than the guy that dunked Nate Thurmond out of bounds?

[TheMagicMan]

So the guy that dunked Chris Dudley out of bounds is better than the guy that dunked Nate Thurmond out of bounds?

Yes :pimp:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wilt's the most dominant force we have ever seen. Peak Shaq was great, but he was no Wilt.

[TheMagicMan]

Wilt's the most dominant force we have ever seen. Peak Shaq was great, but he was no Wilt.

Deuce is this one of those moments where you break character and cape for Wilt :facepalm

[Rocketswin2013]

Consider Wilt played at otherwordly paces, and played a ridiculous amount of minutes (Which, is a feat but can be overstated. Iverson played 43 MPG 5 straight seasons) and the competition.


Shaq was better.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Deuce is this one of those moments where you break character and cape for Wilt :facepalm
I've been watching basketball for a long time and let me tell you, Wilt Chamberlain was the most dominant player ever. George Mikan came close, real close, but no man has ever filled in Chamberlain's shoes. I've seen him play live with my own eyes. My eyes don't lie son, I know what I've seen.

[Rocketswin2013]

:lol Duece wtf.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I've been watching basketball for a long time and let me tell you, Wilt Chamberlain was the most dominant player ever. George Mikan came close, real close, but no man has ever filled in Chamberlain's shoes. I've seen him play live with my own eyes. My eyes don't lie son, I know what I've seen.
Mikan is the greatest player I have ever seen in my 60 years of watching basketball. MDE.

[Deuce Bigalow]

not sure why some posters think wilt > shaq.

wilt's play completely fell off in the playoffs and one of his two rings came from riding jerry west's coattails.

here are the facts:
wilt = 23.6 points per 36 minutes; shaq= 24.6 points per 36 minutes
-shaq scored more points per minute
-shaq shot a higher fg%
-shaq has taken 20+ fgas in TWO career seasons,both ending in scoring titles...while wilt jacked up 39.5 fgas per game in 62(also had a season where he missed 19FGA!!!)

again, in the playoffs, wilt was a 22.5 ppg scorer in 47.2 mpg - shaq = 24.3 ppg in 37.5 mpg in his playoff career.

shaq has a higher career fg% AND ft% in both the reg.season and playoffs, was a better postseason performer, finals performer and has more rings against better competition.

:confusedshrug:
Here are the facts:
-Wilt has more scoring titles and more rebounding titles. Why has SHaq never led the league in rebounding?
-Wilt shot a higher FG% relative to the league average and has the highest FG% ever at .727
-Wilt won more MVPs
-Wilt faced HOF centers for his competition including the great Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Walt Bellamy, Bob Lanier - all hall of famers
-Wilt faced the Boston Celtics dynasty which prevented the likes of West and Baylor to end the decade of the sixties ringless
-Wilt never played with Kobe Bryant like Shaq did
-Wilt has 4 postseasons of over 30+ ppg, 4 50-point playoffs games, 13 40-point playoffs, all more than Shaq
-Wilt has the second most rebounds in postseason history behind Russell and also led the playoffs in rebounding 8 times
-Shaq was never the force on defense that Wilt was, Wilt once blocked 23 shots during a national televised game and if blocks were officially recorded as a stat, he would be the all-time leader
-During Wilt's scoring prime he averaged 32.6 ppg in the playoffs, far greater than Shaq's prime

To sum it up..Chamberlain > O'Neal

[TheMagicMan]

Here are the facts:
-Wilt has more scoring titles and more rebounding titles. Why has SHaq never led the league in rebounding?
-Wilt shot a higher FG% relative to the league average and has the highest FG% ever at .727
-Wilt won more MVPs
-Wilt faced HOF centers for his competition including the great Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Walt Bellamy, Bob Lanier - all hall of famers
-Wilt faced the Boston Celtics dynasty which prevented the likes of West and Baylor to end the decade of the sixties ringless
-Wilt never played with Kobe Bryant like Shaq did
-Wilt has 4 postseasons of over 30+ ppg, 4 50-point playoffs games, 13 40-point playoffs, all more than Shaq
-Wilt has the second most rebounds in postseason history behind Russell and also led the playoffs in rebounding 8 times
-Shaq was never the force on defense that Wilt was, Wilt once blocked 23 shots during a national televised game and if blocks were officially recorded as a stat, he would be the all-time leader
-During Wilt's scoring prime he averaged 32.6 ppg in the playoffs, far greater than Shaq's prime

To sum it up..Chamberlain > O'Neal

Deuce is bipolar, I'm sure of it :facepalm

[Rocketswin2013]

Here are the facts:
-Wilt has more scoring titles
-Wilt has more rebounding titles, Shaq has zero
-Wilt shot a higher FG% relative to the league average
-Wilt won more MVPs
-Wilt faced HOF centers for his competition including the great Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Walt Bellamy, Bob Lanier - all hall of famers
-Wilt faced the Boston Celtics dynasty which prevented the likes of West and Baylor to end the decade of the sixties ringless
-Wilt never played with Kobe Bryant like Shaq did
-Wilt has 4 postseasons of over 30+ ppg, 4 50-point playoffs games, 13 40-point playoffs, all more than Shaq
-Wilt has the second most rebounds in postseason history behind Russell and also led the playoffs in rebounding 8 times
-Shaq was never the force on defense that Wilt was, Wilt once blocked 23 shots during a national televised game and if blocks were officially recorded as a stat, he would be the all-time leader
-During Wilt's scoring prime he averaged 32.6 ppg in the playoffs, far greater than Shaq's prime

To sum it up quite simply..Chamberlain > O'Neal
This meltdown................Is so underrated....................

I think Wilt is in the top 6-9 range all-time. Though I thought he was #2 like 2 weeks ago....But I've never flopped on a topic like this...........

[Deuce Bigalow]

Mikan is the greatest player I have ever seen in my 60 years of watching basketball. MDE.
Since my days of watching Ed Wachter dominate the peach baskets, I would have to say Mikan takes a backseat to The Stilt.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Chamberlain..here's a guy that can run with the likes of Olympic sprinters, lift weights with the likes of Arnold, and can jump with such athleticism that he was able to dunk in his freethrows? How does Shaq even have a chance of stopping Wilt? It wouldn't even be a fair fight.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Since my days of watching Ed Wachter dominate the peach baskets, I would have to say Mikan takes a backseat to The Stilt.
5 Rings > 2. The Stilt, while being a fine player himself, could never replicate the playoff dominance of a prime Mikan. I remember watching Mikan lead his team to 5 championships in a span of just 6 years like it was yesterday. Never again will there be a player like that.

[Deuce Bigalow]

5 Rings > 2. The Stilt, while being a fine player himself, could never replicate the playoff dominance of a prime Mikan. I remember watching Mikan lead his team to 5 championships in a span of just 6 years like it was yesterday. Never again will there be a player like that.
Those were the days. Mikan turned me into a Laker fan back in '49 and we will never see a man like George again. Fierce and tougher than any man I've ever known. His dominance is unmatched in certain aspects, but as far as overall dominance? Nobody was the force of Chamberlain, he was larger than life, a man among boys.

[5 rings fan]

Kobe = GOAT

And Bill Russell the supposed "GOAT" gots crushed by Wilt h2h statwise every time in the playoffs, especially in 1967.
there are many people who have seen Wilt blocked twenty five skyhooks in a row on jabbar

Bill "11 rings" Russell got wrecked by the white scrub bob petitt , who would be a light bulb changer today
that's one of the biggest choke we have seen thus far in the league

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe = GOAT

And Bill Russell the supposed "GOAT" gots crushed by Wilt h2h statwise every time in the playoffs, especially in 1967.
there are many people who have seen Wilt blocked twenty five skyhooks in a row on jabbar

Bill "11 rings" Russell got wrecked by the white scrub bob petitt , who would be a light bulb changer today
that's one of the biggest choke we have seen thus far in the league
Bobby Pettit was a great talent. He would be easily the best power forward in the game today.

[5 rings fan]

Bobby Pettit was a great talent. He would be easily the best power forward in the game today.
The ultimate question is, Duncan and Wilt , who was better.

Both the ultimate chokers , both were never able to repeat with stacked cast.
last year's game 7 Duncan was on par with any wilt's choke :applause:
Missed a easy shot then slams the floor :oldlol:

[Psileas]

Easy. The guy that played against real competition (hint: it's not Wilt).

The irony, a Magic fan talking about "real competition". :facepalm

[Psileas]

The irony #2:


Is Michael Jordan the unanimous G.O.A.T on ISH?


No, Kareem is

:facepalm

[AirFederer]

Proof of GOAT-strength!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_RbM5tlSNEg/UuR-cxdfoJI/AAAAAAAAE6w/RG6aMUSjykE/s400/Sequence%252001.Still013.jpg

:bowdown: :applause:

[rzp]

I'm one of those posters who think that Shaq gets a pass for his underperformances in many seasons, forcing his way out of Miami by faking an injury, eating his way out of LA, quitting on Orlando the year after they went to the finals and ring chasing in general, missing the PO with prime Nash, Amare, JRich and Barbosa on his team, but Shaq is and should be ahead of Wilt all-time by a comfortable margin

Shaq was way past of his prime so this is absolute irrelevant to his career.

[swagga]

shaq never lost 49 games in his prime. :lebronamazed:

[swagga]

that being said, in the spirit of this thread:

"wilt was so good at freethrows that each year he changed his style just to challange himself"

[TheMagicMan]

The irony, a Magic fan talking about "real competition". :facepalm

Lol @ comparing the talent in the 80s/90s to the 50s/60s :lol

[Psileas]

Lol @ comparing the talent in the 80s/90s to the 50s/60s

Lmao at you comparing the talent of the 60s/70s to 2000s/2010s and declaring Kareem the GOAT. :lol

[Rocketswin2013]

Consider Wilt played at otherwordly paces, and played a ridiculous amount of minutes (Which, is a feat but can be overstated. Iverson played 43 MPG 5 straight seasons) and the competition.


Shaq was better.

Add playoff play to this and.......
/Thread

[Marchesk]

shaq never lost 49 games in his prime. :lebronamazed:

But he did get swept.

[aj1987]

But he did get swept.
Never missed the playoffs in his prime. In fact, he didn't miss the playoffs till he was 35 and WAY past his prime. Even Wilt got swept in the Playoffs.

[CavaliersFTW]

Never missed the playoffs in his prime. In fact, he didn't miss the playoffs till he was 35 and WAY past his prime. Even Wilt got swept in the Playoffs.
Are you talking about an individual, or a team? Teams win and lose basketball games, not individuals. Team success is often a different subject entirely than how good an individual is.

[aj1987]

Are you talking about an individual, or a team? Teams win and lose basketball games, not individuals. Team success is often a different subject entirely than how good an individual is.
Well, maybe if this individual shared the ball more, instead of trying to stat pad shamelessly, his team might've won more. They also would've won more, if this individual didn't quit on the defensive end, trying not to foul out.

BTW, would've won more, if this individuals name wasn't synonymous with choking.

Wilt is definitely the GOAT. At choking and stat padding.

[Roundball_Rock]

1) Kareem
2) Russell
3) Jordan
4) Wilt
5) Shaq

[jongib369]

Proof of GOAT-strength!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_RbM5tlSNEg/UuR-cxdfoJI/AAAAAAAAE6w/RG6aMUSjykE/s400/Sequence%252001.Still013.jpg

:bowdown: :applause:
He does look pretty damn big for his age

[DaRkJaWs]

And what they seem to have said to us this is this----Russel>Wilt. At least most of the experts that I read. I'm not sure everyone would agree with me about that, and I have a feeling some on this board would vehemently disagree.

I never believed in just looking at raw statistics which Wilt amassed. Stats aren't a be all or end all for me. Stats are highly flexible numbers that can change from one type of team to another. Wilt started winning and contending when he started producing less PPG. The point of playing basketball is to win, and not to produce stats. Some on this board love stats like it's the end in itself.

But to answer the OP, Shaq>Wilt but KAJ is the best of all time.

Oh, OF COURSE people from that time said Russell>Wilt. OF COURSE! they did. And then you go on to prove that by saying statistics aren't a be or end all, but of course if you were to watch any player today have great statistics you'd be fawning over them like crazy. People today still talk about Kevin Love as an awesome rebounder and still to this day bring up his 30 rebound game as proof. Good lord, that mofo only had one 30 rebound game and has very few 20 rebound games, while Wilt has so many 30-40-50 rebound games it boggles the mind. So it seems the only time stats don't matter is when we talk about Wilt, and cherry-picked stats matter if you want to prove whatever point it is you want to bring up. PATHETIC, people. Pathetic.

[DaRkJaWs]

Shaq was lucky the other team choked in 2 of those FOUR, COUNT THAT, 4 !!, CHAMPIONSHIPS he won. Shaq freely admits that the only reason the lakers won in 00 was because Portland choked, and he played a very small role in that 2006 victory over the Mavs, which was an epic choke job by the Mavs. and everyone now knows the Refs helped the Lakers in that game 7 Lakers vs. Kings game. So that's 3 championships that Shaq shouldn't have had, by all accounts, and we would be talking about the Loser shaq is having only won 1 championship, and how he got swept in 6 or 7 different playoffs and beaten 4-1 Twice. This from someone who is supposedly so dominant the other teams shake in fear. Yeah f****** right. So many teams have spat in Shaq's face and gotten away with it, it's pathetic. Meanwhile Poor Wilt lost by 1-4 points in 4 game 7s, and made it to the conference finals for 12 out of his 14 seasons and to the finals 6 times, and only got swept once while still being dominant in his last season in the league. Here is Wilt's Playoff record while losing, by year:
1960: 4-2 Celtics win (conf finals), 2 point loss to the Celtics in Game 6, badly injured his right shooting hand in game 3 or 4.
1961: 3-0 Nationals win (1st round), only time he got swept.
1962: 4-3 Celtics win (conf finals), by a game winning jumper by Sam Jones. Nobody expected Philly to win entering the playoffs.
1963: Only year he didn't make the playoffs, was on a terrible San Francisco team.
1964: 4-1 Celtics win in Finals.
1965: 4-3 Celtics win game 7 by 1 point (conf finals), Havlicek stole the ball.
1966: 4-1 Celtics win (conf finals), his team doesn't contribute.
1968: 4-3 Celtics win (conf finals), 4 point loss, Philly injured from top to bottom and contributed to why they lost.
1969: 4-3 Celtics win (finals), 2 point loss and although Van Breda Koff took him out, I would still put some blame on Wilt for simply playing badly due to the situation he was in and because he simply packed it in a little bit, let his teammates do all the dirty work other than rebounding.
1970: 4-3 Knicks win (finals), Wilt comes back from knee injury that was supposed to sideline him all year, took his 48 win Lakers team to game 7 vs. the 60+ win knicks.
1971: 4-1 Bucks win (conf finals), Wilt is a defensive powerhouse, but ultimately injuries and skill differential led to the Bucks beating Wilt and Lakers 4-1 in Conference Finals.
1973: 4-1 Knicks win (finals)(Key injuries limited players like West and Hairston, offensively Lakers didn't have enough to beat the Knicks, who only won by a few points in almost every game).

And just to put it on record, here is Shaqs losses:
92-93: Doesn't make playoffs.
93-94: SWEPT.
94-95: SWEPT, but does make it to the finals.
95-96: SWEPT.
96-97: Barely beat the Jazz in one game, lost 4-1.
97-98: SWEPT. JAZZ RAPE LAKERS BADLY.
98-99: SWEPT.
Again, he didn't lose in 00, but should have.
03: Can't pin blame on Shaq, but lost vs. the more powerful Spurs.
04: Lost 4-1 vs. Pistons, Shaq is anything but the dominating force his fans make him out to be, although the rest of the team doesn't help either.
05: Lost 4-3.
07: SWEPT vs. a pathetic Bulls team.
08 on: too pitiful to mention, Longevity that Wilt had Shaq didn't even have close to having.

Shaq was good, but the most dominant force? Forget about it. Only young, stupid fans would say such stupid things.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Shaq was lucky the other team choked in 2 of those FOUR, COUNT THAT, 4 !!, CHAMPIONSHIPS he won. Shaq freely admits that the only reason the lakers won in 00 was because Portland choked, and he played a very small role in that 2006 victory over the Mavs, which was an epic choke job by the Mavs. and everyone now knows the Refs helped the Lakers in that game 7 Lakers vs. Kings game. So that's 3 championships that Shaq shouldn't have had, by all accounts, and we would be talking about the Loser shaq is having only won 1 championship, and how he got swept in 6 or 7 different playoffs and beaten 4-1 Twice. This from someone who is supposedly so dominant the other teams shake in fear. Yeah f****** right. So many teams have spat in Shaq's face and gotten away with it, it's pathetic. Meanwhile Poor Wilt lost by 1-4 points in 4 game 7s, and made it to the conference finals for 12 out of his 14 seasons and to the finals 6 times, and only got swept once while still being dominant in his second season in the league. Here is Wilt's Playoff record while losing, by year:
1960: 4-2 Celtics win (conf finals), 2 point loss to the Celtics in Game 6, badly injured his right shooting hand in game 3 or 4.
1961: 3-0 Nationals win (1st round), only time he got swept.
1962: 4-3 Celtics win (conf finals), by a game winning jumper by Sam Jones. Nobody expected Philly to win entering the playoffs.
1963: Only year he didn't make the playoffs, was on a terrible San Francisco team.
1964: 4-1 Celtics win in Finals.
1965: 4-3 Celtics win game 7 by 1 point (conf finals), Havlicek stole the ball.
1966: 4-1 Celtics win (conf finals), his team doesn't contribute.
1968: 4-3 Celtics win (conf finals), 4 point loss, Philly injured from top to bottom and contributed to why they lost.
1969: 4-3 Celtics win (finals), 2 point loss and although Van Breda Koff took him out, I would still put some blame on Wilt for simply playing badly due to the situation he was in and because he simply packed it in a little bit, let his teammates do all the dirty work other than rebounding.
1970: 4-3 Knicks win (finals), Wilt comes back from knee injury that was supposed to sideline him all year, took his 48 win Lakers team to game 7 vs. the 60+ win knicks.
1971: 4-1 Bucks win (conf finals), Wilt is a defensive powerhouse, but ultimately injuries and skill differential led to the Bucks beating Wilt and Lakers 4-1 in Conference Finals.
1973: 4-1 Knicks win (finals)(Key injuries limited players like West and Hairston, offensively Lakers didn't have enough to beat the Knicks, who only won by a few points in almost every game).

And just to put it on record, here is Shaqs losses:
92-93: Doesn't make playoffs.
93-94: SWEPT.
94-95: SWEPT, but does make it to the finals.
95-96: SWEPT.
96-97: Barely beat the Jazz in one game, lost 4-1.
97-98: SWEPT. JAZZ RAPE LAKERS BADLY.
98-99: SWEPT.
Again, he didn't lose in 00, but should have.
03: Can't pin blame on Shaq, but lost vs. the more powerful Spurs.
04: Lost 4-1 vs. Pistons, Shaq is anything but the dominating force his fans make him out to be, although the rest of the team doesn't help either.
05: Lost 4-3.
07: SWEPT vs. a pathetic Bulls team.
08 on: too pitiful to mention, Longevity that Wilt had Shaq didn't even have close to having.

Shaq was good, but the most dominant force? Forget about it. Only young, stupid fans would say such stupid things.

and yet shaq has 2x the rings

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Shaq > Wilt and it's not even close.

:confusedshrug:

[DaRkJaWs]

and yet shaq has 2x the rings
For those like you that didn't get it and is trolling: he got extremely lucky, wilt extremely unlucky.

[feyki]

Thread was about Wilt vs Shaq . But arguements only on scoring .

Shaq was better scorer . Wilt had some lack of offensive skills . He had no smooth post moves or quick and quality footwork and with good handling , like Shaq . But he had great fadeaway in low post .

Wilt's scoring records came in run n gun basketball . He struggled on scoring a lot of times at playoffs . Cause he had no space , like he had in season . And finally , he got understand he wasn't effective with high scoring volume . He turned the more versatile player . Defence and playmaking . He had highest energy and stamina in nba history . 7-8 wingspan , around 37 inches vertical , again around 4.7 , 4.8 .. 40 Yard . His physicality made him comfortably on the court whatever he want , i mean all around play , rebounding , defensive domination , feed his teammates etc ..

Wilt's greatness was about all around talent , not scoring records .

[CavaliersFTW]

Thread was about Wilt vs Shaq . But arguements only on scoring .

Shaq was better scorer . Wilt had some lack of offensive skills . He had no smooth post moves or quick and quality footwork and with good handling , like Shaq . But he had great fadeaway in low post .

Wilt's scoring records came in run n gun basketball . He struggled on scoring a lot of times at playoffs . Cause he had no space , like he had in season . And finally , he got understand he wasn't effective with high scoring volume . He turned the more versatile player . Defence and playmaking . He had highest energy and stamina in nba history . 7-8 wingspan , around 37 inches vertical , again around 4.7 , 4.8 .. 40 Yard . His physicality made him comfortably on the court whatever he want , i mean all around play , rebounding , defensive domination , feed his teammates etc ..

Wilt's greatness was about all around talent , not scoring records .
Retard status post. But this is Insidehoops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOB8BZmWHOs

[feyki]

Retard status post. But this is Insidehoops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOB8BZmWHOs

Where's the smooth post,footwork moves and elite handling ?

But yes , this is insidehoops . I'm dumb,retard or don't know basketball when said bad thing(for them) on their favorite player .

[CavaliersFTW]

Where's the smooth post,footwork moves and elite handling ?

But yes , this is insidehoops . I'm dumb,retard or don't know basketball when said bad thing(for them) on their favorite player .
It takes a special kind of moron to criticize steph currys 3 point shooting ability.

Exact same kind of moron to criticize Wilt Chamberlain in the post.

[warriorfan]

Retard status post. But this is Insidehoops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOB8BZmWHOs

look at these ultra athletic white dudes he is up against

changed my mind, wilt is GOAT :applause:

[feyki]

It takes a special kind of moron to criticize steph currys 3 point shooting ability.

Exact same kind of moron to criticize Wilt Chamberlain in the post.

Or you have bias . Open your eyes ..

[Horatio33]

Or you have bias . Open your eyes ..

Nah, the guy that runs the Wilt Chamberlain Achieve can't be biased.

[feyki]

Nah, the guy that runs the Wilt Chamberlain Achieve can't be biased.

:lol :lol

[AirFederer]

Ever wondered why Wilt dominated the 60s?

Here he is with Bill Russell.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah267/espelid/4A7308F1-FA94-4D23-B166-A02ECD4BD3AB.png_zpstwekubpq.jpeg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/espelid/media/4A7308F1-FA94-4D23-B166-A02ECD4BD3AB.png_zpstwekubpq.jpeg.html)

[LAZERUSS]

Thread was about Wilt vs Shaq . But arguements only on scoring .

Shaq was better scorer . Wilt had some lack of offensive skills . He had no smooth post moves or quick and quality footwork and with good handling , like Shaq . But he had great fadeaway in low post .

Wilt's scoring records came in run n gun basketball . He struggled on scoring a lot of times at playoffs . Cause he had no space , like he had in season . And finally , he got understand he wasn't effective with high scoring volume . He turned the more versatile player . Defence and playmaking . He had highest energy and stamina in nba history . 7-8 wingspan , around 37 inches vertical , again around 4.7 , 4.8 .. 40 Yard . His physicality made him comfortably on the court whatever he want , i mean all around play , rebounding , defensive domination , feed his teammates etc ..

Wilt's greatness was about all around talent , not scoring records .

Wilt was EASILY as better scorer than Shaq. The bashers tend to forget that there were several versions of Chamberlain throughout his career, and most all of them molded by his coaches.

For instance, it was NOT Wilt's idea to average 50 ppg in his '62 season, but rather, his COACH's. Why? Because in the '61 playoffs, Chamberlain's teammates collectively shot .332 from the floor. McGuire took one look at that inept roster, and decided it was better for Wilt to shoot 50%, than for them to shoot 40% (or worse.)

Chamberlain's new coach in the 63-64 season changed the approach. Wilt's supporting cast was so bad in his '62-63 season, that, despite his unfathomable season (leading the NBA in FIFTEEN statistical categories), they still finished 31-49. Hannum had found that Wilt's teammates had come to rely so much on Chamberlain, that they had basically forgot how to play basketball. They couldn't even beat a team of rookies without him. So, he began a transition from pure scorer, to a more balanced scorer.

When the two again came together in Philadelphia, and now with a quality roster, Hannum had Chamberlain run the offense. The ball would go into the Dipper on nearly every possession. BUT, instead of 50 ppg...it was now 24 ppg on an eye-popping .683 FG%...with 8 apg.

After Wilt basically engineered his trade to the Lakers before the '68-69 season, his new coach (and worst of his career), the Butcher Van Breda Kolff, had Wilt playing the high post, and allowing West and Baylor to get the bulk of the shots. Obviously it was a horrible strategy, and VBK was subsequently fired after his Finals debacle.

Chamberlain's '69-70 season could have been one of the most interesting of his career. I say could have, simply because he shredded his knee in the ninth game of the season, and essentially missed the rest of it (he did come back to play the last three games of the regular season.)

Again, with a new coach, Joe Mullaney...Wilt was asked to play the role of scorer again. Mullaney realized that the Butcher's strategy of Baylor being a key player in the offense was a disaster. So his first order of business was to go WILT, and ask WILT to become the focal point of the offense.

Chamberlain relished this role, and in fact, was leading the league in scoring, at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%, with 20.6 rpg) when he went down with that horrific injury. BTW, West was STILL averaging 30.8 ppg at that time. Oh, and in that ninth game, Chamberlain scored 33 points, on 13-14 shooting...in 28 minutes. In other words, he was on pace for an easy 40+ point game, and perhaps yet another 50 point game. For the sake of argument, let's assume that Wilt would have scored 50 points in that game (he had a 66 point game against that same team the year before BTW)...that would have meant that he would have been averaging 34.1 ppg thru those nine games (and again, on a .579 FG%.)

Then think about this: Kareem (Alcindor) was a rookie in that same season. He would put up a 28.8 ppg, .518 F%, 14.5 rpp season. Two years later, in '71-72, he would have the greatest regular season of his entire career, with a 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, .574 season.

So, here was a 32 year old Wilt, on pace for a season that was essentially the equal (actually better, since he was a much better defensive player) of a PEAK Kareem.

And before someone suggests that nine games is a small sample size, Wilt's numbers were not inflated by one or two big games. He had games of 33 (that might have been 50), 35, 37 (against 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle, who used to give KAJ fits), 38 (against reigning MVP Wes Unseld), 42 (against Bob Rule...go ahead and look him up), and 43 (against Connie Dierking...whom BTW, KAJ's highest career game was 41 points.) Oh, and in their one H2H before Wilt's injury...Chamberlain easily outplayed Kareem. He outscored him, 25-23; outrebounded him, 25-20; outassisted him, 5-2; outblocked him, 3-2 (including two sky hooks); and outshot him from the floor, 9-14 to 9-21.

Of course, after shredding his knee, Wilt was never the same player again. True, he could still occassionally hang a 32-31 game on 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier, or even a 45 point Finals game, but his lateral quickness took a big hit, and he was never again the dominant unstoppable scorer that he had been.

BTW, Chamberlain had the HIGH scoring game in the NBA in every season of the decade of the 60's...even in his lessor scoring seasons. For instance, in his '67 season, he went out and hung a 58 point game. In his '68 season he had games of 52, 53, 53, and 68. Even under the idiotic VBK, he still had games of 60, and 66.

CavsFTW has virtually every Wilt made basket, but for the sake of condensing it down, here is one of my favorites...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

As you can see, a prime Chamberlain had exceptional post moves, and a range of 15+ feet.


As for his "struggling to score in the playoffs"...

continued...

[senelcoolidge]

Wilt's skill set was superior to Shaq and it's obvious if you have studied the two. Just watch Cavs videos. Wilt had an array of offensive moves. Shaq had a handful of moves at most and he relied on bullying the paint. Wilt could have done the same but didn't have to because he had so many options in the way of scoring. Wilt was a superior rebounder and defender no question. Wilt was a better passer. Rules were a lot more strict in Wilt's day so Shaq could not get away with what he did when he played in Wilt's era.

[LAZERUSS]

He struggled on scoring a lot of times at playoffs . Cause he had no space , like he had in season

Chamberlain "struggled to score in the playoffs" because...he was going up against Russell and his swarming teammates in either the first, or second round of his playoffs, in SEVEN of his ten "pre-injury" seasons. And again, a "scoring" Wilt only had six post-seasons (his team was so bad in '63, when he averaged 44.8 ppg, that they didn't even make the playoffs.) And he seldom had the opportunity to face the equivalent of a washed-up Rik Smits, or a clod like Todd McCullouch.

Wilt didn't have the luxury of multiple playoff rounds, and against cannon-fodder, like the greats that came after him. Still, to say he "struggled" is simply ridiculous.

In his "scoring" prime, he had post-seasons of 28.0 ppg, 29.3 ppg, 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. He had series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and 38.7 ppg. And he had four games of 50+, including the only three by a GOAT candidate in "must win" games.

Oh, and how did he do against Russell and the "Dynasty" in those years? 28.0 ppg, 29.2 ppg, 30.1 ppg, 30.5 ppg, and 33.6 ppg. And again, it was not just Russell he was battling, either. It was well-known that Russell had to have a TON of help in "containing" Wilt.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html


In Chamberlain's first year, and for several years afterward, opposing teams simply didn't know how to handle him. Tom Heinsohn, the great Celtics forward who later became a coach and broadcaster, said Boston was one of the first clubs to apply a team-defense concept to stop Chamberlain. "We went for his weakness," Heinsohn told the Philadelphia Daily News in 1991, "tried to send him to the foul line, and in doing that he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever.. I hear people today talk about hard fouls. Half the fouls against him were hard fouls."

And speaking of Russell...he MADE his post-season numbers against the LAKERS in the decade of the 60's. Remove his FIVE series against them from his post-season career, and his numbers would have looked dramatically worse.


Here were Russell's numbers against LA in those five series:

'62:

Russell averaged 18.9 ppg on a .457 FG% in his regular season against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 22.9 ppg on a .543 FG%. Which included a game seven of 30 points and 40 rebounds.

BTW, against Wilt in the '62 EDF's: 22.0 ppg on a .399 FG%


'63:

Russell averaged 16.8 ppg on a .432 FG% in his regular season.

Against LA in the Finals: 20 ppg on a .467 FG%


'65:

Russell averaged 14.1 ppg on a .438 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 17.8 ppg on a .702 FG% (yes, .702.)

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 15.6 ppg on a .447 FG%


'66:

Russell averaged 12.9 ppg on a .415 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 23.6 ppg on a .538 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 14.0 ppg on a .423 FG%


'68:

Russell averaged 12.5 ppg on a .425 FG% against the NBA

Against LA in the Finals: 17.3 ppg on a .430 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 13.7 ppg on a .440 FG%


Oh, and here were Russell's stats in the '69 Finals against Wilt:

Regular season against the NBA: 9.9 ppg on a .433 FG%

Against Wilt in the Finals: 9.0 ppg on a .397 FG%

And now Wilt's against LA from '60 thru '68.


Again, had Wilt faced the Lakers in any of his nine seasons in the league from '60 thru '68, and he likely would own at least some, (if not a vast majority), playoff and perhaps Finals, scoring records (and perhaps FG% records, as well, since Russell shot .702 against LA in '65.)

And once again, in Wilt's regular seasons, he was facing LA between 7 to 12 games in each season, with an average of about 10.

Also keep in mind that the Lakers were in the Western Conference, and Wilt only had two seasons in the Western Conference from '60 thru '68, and in one of those, his team was so bad, that he didn't make the playoffs, despite a 44.8 ppg season on .528 shooting.


Ok, here we go:

'59-60:

Against the entire NBA that season: 37.6 ppg on a .461 FG%

Against the Lakers in 9 H2H's: 36.8 ppg on a .430 FG%

High games of 41, 41, 41, 45, and 52.


'60-61:

Against the entire NBA: 38.4 ppg on a .509 FG%

Against the Lakers in 10 H2H's: 40.1 ppg on a .506 FG%

High games were 41, 41, 43, 44, 46, and 56 points.


'61-62:

Against the entire NBA: 50.4 ppg on a .506 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2H games: 51.6 ppg on a .503 FG%

High games of 48, 56, 57, 60, 60, and 78 (with 43 rebounds.)


'62-63: Against the entire NBA: 44.8 ppg on a .528 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 48.6 ppg on a .541 FG%

High games of 40, 40, 42, 53, 63, and 72 points.


'63-64: Against the entire NBA: 36.9 ppg on a .524 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 44.3 ppg on a .484 FG%

High games of 40, 41, 47, 49, 50, 55, and 59 points.


'64-65: Against the entire NBA: 34.7 ppg on a .510 FG%

Against LA in 8 H2Hs: 29.9 ppg on a .476 FG%

High games of 40, 40, and 41 points.


'65-66: Against the entire NBA: 33.5 ppg on a .540 FG%

Against LA in 10 H2Hs: 40.8 ppg on a .559 FG%

High games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points.


'66-67: Against the entire NBA: 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2Hs: 26.4 ppg on a .759 FG%

High games of 32, 37, and 39 points.


'67-68: Against the entire NBA: 24.3 ppg on a .595 FG%

Against LA in 7 H2Hs: 28.1 ppg on a .638 FG%

High games of 31, 32, 35, and 53 points.


Overall, in those 86 games:

40 Point Games: 42

50 Point Games: 19

60 Point Games: 7

70 Point Games: 2

High game of 78 points.

And yet, Wilt never faced the Lakers even once in the post-season. One can only imagine what his numbers would have looked like had he faced them FIVE times like Russell did.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt's skill set was superior to Shaq and it's obvious if you have studied the two. Just watch Cavs videos. Wilt had an array of offensive moves. Shaq had a handful of moves at most and he relied on bullying the paint. Wilt could have done the same but didn't have to because he had so many options in the way of scoring. Wilt was a superior rebounder and defender no question. Wilt was a better passer. Rules were a lot more strict in Wilt's day so Shaq could not get away with what he did when he played in Wilt's era.

Shaq would have fouled out on this sequence alone had he played in the 60's...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

[LAZERUSS]

Ever wondered why Wilt dominated the 60s?

Here he is with Bill Russell.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah267/espelid/4A7308F1-FA94-4D23-B166-A02ECD4BD3AB.png_zpstwekubpq.jpeg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/espelid/media/4A7308F1-FA94-4D23-B166-A02ECD4BD3AB.png_zpstwekubpq.jpeg.html)

Here are a couple of more against those midgets that he faced in his career...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1utx7OxiaoU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwHP04TWOps

Nope, you won't find any games in which Chamberlain faced a legitimate seven-footer.

[feyki]

Wilt's skill set was superior to Shaq and it's obvious if you have studied the two. Just watch Cavs videos. Wilt had an array of offensive moves. Shaq had a handful of moves at most and he relied on bullying the paint. Wilt could have done the same but didn't have to because he had so many options in the way of scoring. Wilt was a superior rebounder and defender no question. Wilt was a better passer. Rules were a lot more strict in Wilt's day so Shaq could not get away with what he did when he played in Wilt's era.

I have watched all entire game tapes of 60's and 70's ( beside of 76 , 78 , 79 ) . Of course i watched as i can . In Youtube or other sources . Before 80 is my favorite era , i enjoying when i watch those days' games . Tougher game , no interest on media stuffs ; they did just play the game .

So , I don't need someone's videos about Wilt . And I always talking about what i see .

I don't like late 80's , 90's and early 00's Basketball . But i must watched them to analyze and talk about those names .

[LAZERUSS]

I have watched all entire game tapes of 60's and 70's ( beside of 76 , 78 , 79 ) . Of course i watched as i can . In Youtube or other sources . Before 80 is my favorite era , i enjoying when i watch those days' games . Tougher game , no interest on media stuffs ; they did just play the game .

So , I don't need someone's videos about Wilt . And I always talking about what i see .

I don't like late 80's , 90's and early 00's Basketball . But i must watched them to analyze and talk about those names .

The problem here...

there are only FOUR partial games in which we have video footage of Wilt (not including the '62 ASG...in which we have highlights.) And again, aside from his '62 ASG, in which he scored 42 points on 17-23 shooting (but only highlights from that game) we don't have even ONE of his 271 career 40+ point games. In fact, there is very little footage of a prime scoring Chamberlain, including highlights.

BUT, in the very limited footage that does exist, we can clearly see why Chamberlain was capable of huge scoring games. Multiple post moves, in either direction, and with several shots, including fadeaway bank shots that rival Duncan's...and with a range of 15+ feet.

The man was a legit 7-1+ (and certainly taller than Shaq), 280-300 lbs at his peak, with a 7-8 wingspan, probably the strongest man to have ever played (sorry Shaq), with a likely 40+ vertical. All of that coupled with an exceptional skill-set.

[Im Still Ballin]

Wilt = A mix of David Robinson and Shaq

He'd be a 30/15 guy at his peak in the 90's

He was bigger than anyone sans Shaq

More athletic than anyone sans probably Robinson (This might be up for debate)

And he was very skilled, I remember Cavs having some good footage... He had a nice jumper, and smooth post moves

Things to take into conisderation: He'll be playing against perhaps more athletic and sizier opponents (This is not to say he didn't face athletic and big opposition... He faced plenty of bigs + Bill Russell would be considered a 6-11 guy today as they measured barefoot back then), BUT he'd also have the benefit of PEDs (They didn't use them during his time in the league AND they were widely used in some of the 80's and all throughout the 90's)... And also state of the art strength and conditioning...

Also Wilt played before the first handcheck ban in 1979, AND before the Illegal defense guidelines addition in 1981, which sole purpose was to increase scoring, open up the paint and make the game more exciting again, compared to the physical defensive 70's KNOWN for it's merger era/fights/jump shot league... Here's a nice quote about the rule change from my studies into Illegal defense and rule change history...


The new wave of coaches made defenses sophisticated enough by 1981 that the league created an “illegal defense” rule to open up the paint. Here’s how referee Ed Rush explained it to SI: “We were becoming a jump-shot league, so we went to the coaches and said, ‘You’ve screwed the game with all your great defenses. Now fix it.’ And they did. The new rule will open up the middle and give the great players room to move. People like Julius Erving and David Thompson who used to beat their own defensive man and then still have to pull up for a jump shot because they were being double-teamed, should have an extra four or five feet to move around in. And that’s all those guys need.”

This is especially important when considering a dominant bigman like Wilt, because due to the stipulations of the illegal defense guidelines (You couldn't double off the ball/provide much if any help defense), it became really easy for post players to get position, get the ball and score.

Just imagine Wilt isolating down on the low block, he's already got deep position before he even has the ball, the defense can't do anything about it until when he has the ball, they can double, but by then it is way too late, and the pass to the open man is extremely predictable.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt = A mix of David Robinson and Shaq

He'd be a 30/15 guy at his peak in the 90's

He was bigger than anyone sans Shaq

More athletic than anyone sans probably Robinson (This might be up for debate)

And he was very skilled, I remember Cavs having some good footage... He had a nice jumper, and smooth post moves

Things to take into conisderation: He'll be playing against perhaps more athletic and sizier opponents (This is not to say he didn't face athletic and big opposition... He faced plenty of bigs + Bill Russell would be considered a 6-11 guy today as they measured barefoot back then), BUT he'd also have the benefit of PEDs (They didn't use them during his time in the league AND they were widely used in some of the 80's and all throughout the 90's)... And also state of the art strength and conditioning...

Also Wilt played before the first handcheck ban in 1979, AND before the Illegal defense guidelines addition in 1981, which sole purpose was to increase scoring, open up the paint and make the game more exciting again, compared to the physical defensive 70's KNOWN for it's merger era/fights/jump shot league... Here's a nice quote about the rule change from my studies into Illegal defense and rule change history...



This is especially important when considering a dominant bigman like Wilt, because due to the stipulations of the illegal defense guidelines (You couldn't double off the ball/provide much if any help defense), it became really easy for post players to get position, get the ball and score.

Just imagine Wilt isolating down on the low block, he's already got deep position before he even has the ball, the defense can't do anything about it until when he has the ball, they can double, but by then it is way too late, and the pass to the open man is extremely predictable.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

:cheers:

[Im Still Ballin]

And Endurance wouldn't be a problem. They played at a much faster, intense pace during Wilt's era.

When you factor in all the era specific adjustments like I mentioned above, you simply cannot deny that Wilt would dominate.

[Im Still Ballin]

All you have to look at is the post play in the 80's and 90's to realize how friendly the rules would be for a big like Wilt. That's just unfair if you can't double or front a guy like him before he gets the ball... But those were the rules.

A lot of the times today it's not that bigs can't score from the post, it's just that they simply cannot get easy position and entry with help defenders fronting and doubling before they even get the ball... So the focal of bigs today has shifted to the more dynamic pick and roll euro style... That said, with the adequate fielded floor spacing from shooters, post players can still be damaging. Golden state love to post up Green, not even to score, just his ability to pass from there.

[Im Still Ballin]

Just look at how easy the rules made it for bigman to get post possessions and scores

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22O2lApCBBs&spfreload=1

^^^
Arguably the most dangerous post threat in that era, and the defense is barely allowed to double him, because by the time he has the ball, it's too late.

If you don't believe Wilt would dominate on that, I don't know what to tell you. An Old man Wilt in his last few seasons went head to head with a prime KAJ who was still putting up 20PPG seasons by the end of the 80's

[feyki]

Lazeruss ;

True , there are A few games for Wilt . But 1964 Finals tape in his prime . You could see his peak in entire game .

And reading .. Reading second most important analyze way for players . And last or third is statistics , of course .

I didn't see ever Shaq's smooth post moves by Wilt . Shaq was nasty in the post . And he damn had elite handles .

I choose Shaq when it comes to scoring in halfcourt game , post and footwork moves . It's just not about Wilt . Shaq was goat at those stuffs .

[LAZERUSS]

Lazeruss ;

True , there are A few games for Wilt . But 1964 Finals tape in his prime . You could see his peak in entire game .

And reading .. Reading second most important analyze way for players . And last or third is statistics , of course .

I didn't see ever Shaq's smooth post moves by Wilt . Shaq was nasty in the post . And he damn had elite handles .

I choose Shaq when it comes to scoring in halfcourt game , post and footwork moves . It's just not about Wilt . Shaq was goat at those stuffs .

The second half of a game in which he scored 27 points (albeit, with 38 rebounds.) BTW, he absolutely slaughtered Russell in that game. Anyone watching that one game (again, only a half of it) would have come to the conclusion that Russell was inept. Incidently, Chamberlain was doubled (and swarmed) on nearly every shot.

Oh, and just watching that game...how in the hell did Guy Rodgers get elected into the HOF a couple of years ago? He was simply awful.

[LAZERUSS]

Lazeruss ;

True , there are A few games for Wilt . But 1964 Finals tape in his prime . You could see his peak in entire game .

And reading .. Reading second most important analyze way for players . And last or third is statistics , of course .

I didn't see ever Shaq's smooth post moves by Wilt . Shaq was nasty in the post . And he damn had elite handles .

I choose Shaq when it comes to scoring in halfcourt game , post and footwork moves . It's just not about Wilt . Shaq was goat at those stuffs .

BTW, take a look at the help that Russell had in that series, compared to Wilt.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1964-nba-finals-warriors-vs-celtics.html

[feyki]

The second half of a game in which he scored 27 points (albeit, with 38 rebounds.) BTW, he absolutely slaughtered Russell in that game. Anyone watching that game would come to the conclusion that Russell was inept. Incidently, Chamberlain was doubled (and swarmed) on nearly every shot.

Oh, and just watching that game...how in the hell did Guy Rodgers get elected into the HOF a couple of years ago? He was simply awful.

Russell played very well . Playmaking and defence as usual . And What you mean with "which 27" , Wilt averaged 29 points at that finals . Pace slowed down to around 110-115 and tough defence too .

Rodgers was good playmaker but he can't shoot well , unfortumately .

Ehh normal , you can take double on the post . And that's what i mean . Shaq was better on those situations .

[LAZERUSS]

Russell played very well . Playmaking and defence as usual . And What you mean with "which 27" , Wilt averaged 29 points at that finals . Pace slowed down to around 110-115 and tough defence too .

Rodgers was good playmaker but he can't shoot well , unfortumately .

Ehh normal , you can take double on the post . And that's what i mean . Shaq was better on those situations .

Wilt scored 27 points in that game. Certainly not even an average game for a "scoring" Wilt.

Russell's defense...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wEzEHPZi3w

Looks like he had a ton of help.

Incidently, they were literally doubling Chamberlain, even when he didn't have the ball...which was illegal at the time.

[sd3035]

It would resemble Usain Bolt racing Jesse Owens

[LAZERUSS]

It would resemble Usain Bolt racing Jesse Owens

Excellent point...

https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_b etter_stronger?language=en

Bolt by perhaps a hair.

[feyki]

Wilt scored 27 points in that game. Certainly not even an average game for a "scoring" Wilt.

Russell's defense...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wEzEHPZi3w

Looks like he had a ton of help.

Incidently, they were literally doubling Chamberlain, even when he didn't have the ball...which was illegal at the time.

Wilt averaged 29 points in that series . Did you read my post ? I talked about this when i mentioned tough defence .

I don't understand what you mean " illegal " .

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt averaged 29 points in that series . Did you read my post ? I talked about this when i mentioned tough defence .

I don't understand what you mean " illegal " .

You could not double a man without the ball at the time. Once he had the ball, you were free to put five guys on him.

As for 29 ppg average. On a .517 FG% in a post-season NBA that shot .420, and in a Finals in which the two teams collectively shot less than .400.

Just the very next post-season, in a seven game series, Chamberlain would carpet-bomb Russell with a 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, .555 FG% series (in a post-season NBA that shot .429 overall.)

And again...it was not Russell, alone, defending Chamberlain, either. Wilt didn't have that luxury. He not only single-covered Russell, but he chasing their shooters in the lane, as well.

In fact, for one of the few times in the post-season career H2H's, Russell hit a game-winner against Wilt. Why? Because Wilt jumped out at Heinsohn, who then threw up a terrible brick...but with no one on Russell, he grabbed the rebound and put in the game winner.

[feyki]

LAZERUSS
;


You could not double a man without the ball at the time. Once he had the ball, you were free to put five guys on him.


I wasn't knew that , thanks . I remember three guy move to Wilt when they help their defence , dynamically . But i don't remember 2 or mor guys keeps near Wilt .



As for 29 ppg average. On a .517 FG% in a post-season NBA that shot .420, and in a Finals in which the two teams collectively shot less than .400.

Just the very next post-season, in a seven game series, Chamberlain would carpet-bomb Russell with a 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, .555 FG% series (in a post-season NBA that shot .429 overall.).

So , around 25 points on 100 poss in those games . If we count the Celtics defence , that would be around 30 points on 100 poss and 1.00 poss rtg .


And again...it was not Russell, alone, defending Chamberlain, either. Wilt didn't have that luxury. He not only single-covered Russell, but he chasing their shooters in the lane, as well.



In fact, for one of the few times in the post-season career H2H's, Russell hit a game-winner against Wilt. Why? Because Wilt jumped out at Heinsohn, who then threw up a terrible brick...but with no one on Russell, he grabbed the rebound and put in the game winner.

Basketball is team sport , game .

[LAZERUSS]

LAZERUSS
;




I wasn't knew that , thanks . I remember three guy move to Wilt when they help their defence , dynamically . But i don't remember 2 or mor guys keeps near Wilt .




So , around 25 points on 100 poss in those games . If we count the Celtics defence , that would be around 30 points on 100 poss and 1.00 poss rtg .



Basketball is team sport , game .

This.

That's why Jordan had a losing record, even in his highest scoring season...until he had rosters that were capable of winning 55+ games without him.

That is why a prime Kareem only went two to Finals, and only won one ring in his first ten seasons in the NBA.

That is why Hakeem was a virtual first-round loser for most of his career.

That is why a peak scoring Kobe couldn't get past the first round.

That is why Shaq was swept six times in the post-season (and nearly eight.)

That is why West went 1-9 in his Finals.

That is why Oscar only won one ring.

And that is why Chamberlain only won two.