The age limit saved the League.

[Duderonomy]

The percent rate of success for HS stars in the NBA is very slim. Lebron, Kobe, KG,etc are the exceptions. The 2nd most successful player drafted out of HS in 2003 was Kendrick Perkins. :facepalm If the league would've continued going down that path, we would've seen NBA scouts at middle school games. 19 is still too young IMHO.

[PJR]

Needs to be raised three years. 1 year is pointless.

[J Shuttlesworth]

The 2nd most successful player drafted out of HS in 2003 was Kendrick Perkins. :facepalm
How is that a bad thing? They're not paying him enough. He's the 3rd all star on the thunder

[BoutPractice]

Actually, the rate of success of straight to HS players is above average compared to the rate of success of players who spend at least one year in college...

Which shouldn't surprise anyone, since to be considered as a straight to high school pick, you need to be pretty good to begin with. A Tyler Hansbrough wouldn't have to ask himself if he needs to go straight to the pros.

[CelticBaller]

No it wasn't, there's many successful hs players in the nba :rolleyes:

[Nash]

The percent rate of success for HS stars in the NBA is very slim. Lebron, Kobe, KG,etc are the exceptions. The 2nd most successful player drafted out of HS in 2003 was Kendrick Perkins. :facepalm If the league would've continued going down that path, we would've seen NBA scouts at middle school games. 19 is still too young IMHO.
false

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2171&mode=print&nocache=1358639181

[Go Getter]

The percent rate of success for HS stars in the NBA is very slim. Lebron, Kobe, KG,etc are the exceptions. The 2nd most successful player drafted out of HS in 2003 was Kendrick Perkins. :facepalm If the league would've continued going down that path, we would've seen NBA scouts at middle school games. 19 is still too young IMHO.
Dorell Wright, Jermaine O'Neal, and Sebastian Telfair had decent careers as well as Moses Malone, Dwight Howard, and Stevenson.

What were they going to do at college other than take the spot of a kid who wants to learn.

Players should be able to go pro straight from HS just like in other sports. The D-league is here to develop them if they need it.

[SexSymbol]

I think the age limit should be 28, players wouldn't need to wait for their peaks, this forum would thrive

[pauk]

For Kobe i cant agree though, he wasnt really success in the NBA out of HS, he needed at least 1-2 more years.

[SexSymbol]

For Kobe i cant agree though, he wasnt really success in the NBA out of HS, he really needed at least 2 more years.
SHINE THE LIGHT OF MY AGENDA

[HylianNightmare]

1 year in the d league droppin 30 a game

[HurricaneKid]

The percent rate of success for HS stars in the NBA is very slim. Lebron, Kobe, KG,etc are the exceptions. The 2nd most successful player drafted out of HS in 2003 was Kendrick Perkins. :facepalm If the league would've continued going down that path, we would've seen NBA scouts at middle school games. 19 is still too young IMHO.

This is about as inaccurate a statement as one could possibly make.

The age limit is illegal and should be challenged in court. The idea that someone would improve their game faster by going to school, class, hours of study time, charitable endeavors, etc that are responsibilities of every student athlete rather than have elite one on one coaching with no other responsibilities other than to improve as a player is a rather insane idea.

[Is He Ill]

Dorell Wright, Jermaine O'Neal, and Sebastian Telfair had decent careers as well as Moses Malone, Dwight Howard, and Stevenson.

What were they going to do at college other than take the spot of a kid who wants to learn.

Players should be able to go pro straight from HS just like in other sports. The D-league is here to develop them if they need it.

This

[pauk]

SHINE THE LIGHT OF MY AGENDA

Not sure what that could possibly mean for you, but no Kobe was nowhere close to KG/Lebron, those guys came in immediately with a bang, they were more NBA ready physically, mentally & were simply more talented/skilled. I just dont think Kobe was that same exception, taking him at 18 is ok only if you knew what he would become much later... but you dont...

[cos88]

there should be an age limit on ISh as well. let jameerthequeer develop until 20 so he stops posting anime girls and threads about stalking white girls at his poor alabama HS.

[longtime lurker]

You guys honestly think 1 year in college makes a difference? :lol the best players will always rise to the top. Don't blame the kids because there are dumbass GM's that can't see that certain players need more development. The NCAA exists as a system to exploit these kids.

[secund2nun]

Going to college is stupid. If I was a top player I would go the Brandon Jennings route- go to Europe and make a few million for a year and then go to the NBA and make some more millions as a first round pick.

[ZenMaster]

This is about as inaccurate a statement as one could possibly make.

The age limit is illegal and should be challenged in court. The idea that someone would improve their game faster by going to school, class, hours of study time, charitable endeavors, etc that are responsibilities of every student athlete rather than have elite one on one coaching with no other responsibilities other than to improve as a player is a rather insane idea.

The whole draft system should be challenged in court.

Telling people where to live and what coaches to play for :facepalm

[DonDadda59]

false

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2171&mode=print&nocache=1358639181

Eh, that's a little misleading I think. It used to be that drafting kids directly out of high school very rarely happened. That player had to be a universally regarded, sure fire, future HOF caliber player to be taken in the draft. The league, especially in the Jordan Rules era, was no place for skinny kids fresh off their proms. KG was the first player taken out of HS in 20 years. But every scout, GM, etc knew he was a very rare talent and was pretty much a lock to be a star eventually. Took him a few seasons to adjust to the man's game but he obviously panned out.

Kobe was the first guard ever drafted out of HS. Jerry West, a genius talent evaluator, knew what he had in the kid and was even willing to part with a proven commodity in Vlade to get him in LA. Again, took him a few seasons to adjust to the physical style of play but his career worked out as West foresaw. Jermaine O'Neal was another HSer and future all star from that draft.

Next year it was TMac. After that Al Harrington and Rashard Lewis were very late picks, but they ones that worked out. After that teams started looking more and more into HS players and started drafting them much higher. Johnathan Bender 5th, then Darius Miles third, by 2001 they went all out with Kwame #1 with Chandler and Curry being top 5. That's when it started getting into the hit or miss category (With Lebron being the only universal pick everyone knew was a once in a lifetime talent).

I think in the beginning, teams only used picks on HSers they KNEW were going to be special players. I'm sure management gave the order to vet them with a fine-tooted comb to make sure they were locks to be future all stars and not just contributors they could get more assurances from in the college ranks or worse yet, busts. But after seeing what kind of players KG and Kobe turned into, teams starting viewing picks as gambling chips and clearly didn't vet talent the same. They were picking guys who could be good, not guys who they knew were once in a generation/lifetime players.

If it had continued, it would've further diluted the game. Anthony Bennett is not exactly the poster boy for college play being a better indicator, but that's more a question of talent evaluation/scouting shortcomings the Cavs had.

[Duderonomy]

This is about as inaccurate a statement as one could possibly make.

The age limit is illegal and should be challenged in court. The idea that someone would improve their game faster by going to school, class, hours of study time, charitable endeavors, etc that are responsibilities of every student athlete rather than have elite one on one coaching with no other responsibilities other than to improve as a player is a rather insane idea.
How is illegal for a private employer to require a age limit or one year of college? Oh you can't potentially make millions of dollars till you're 19. :violin:

If the player is a sure thing, he should take easy classes that he enjoys. The one and done stars have done just as well (Melo,Rose, KD, Wall)

[salwan]

:lebronamazed:
there should be an age limit on ISh as well. let jameerthequeer develop until 20 so he stops posting anime girls and threads about stalking white girls at his poor alabama HS.

[FreezingTsmoove]

there should be an age limit on ISh as well. let jameerthequeer develop until 20 so he stops posting anime girls and threads about stalking white girls at his poor alabama HS.

:applause:

[Heisenberg]

well that didn't save Anthony Bennett for being a bust.

[Droid101]

false

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2171&mode=print&nocache=1358639181
Let's close up the thread folks, we're done here. (Although I disagree that Robert Swift was a "regular" I pretty much agree with everyone else.)

[tpols]

Not sure what that could possibly mean for you, but no Kobe was nowhere close to KG/Lebron, those guys came in immediately with a bang, they were more NBA ready physically, mentally & were simply more talented/skilled. I just dont think Kobe was that same exception, taking him at 18 is ok only if you knew what he would become much later... but you dont...
Nowhere close to KG?:KG averaged 10/6/2 in his first year.. they both took time to develop.. just as much as Kobe did.

LOL at KG 'coming in with a BANG' 10/6/2... Pauk's knowledge=exposed


Lebron.. true he was ready from the get go.

[Sarcastic]

The only thing it has saved is money for the teams, since it's one less year of development that they have to pay for.

It's cost the players millions of dollars as well. Look at Andre Drummond. Going to college caused him to drop in the draft, costing him millions of dollars in his contract. It also cost Nerlens Noel his entire knee, as he went to college and blew it out playing for free. He also caused him to drop in the draft, when he would've been the easy #1 pick of the draft.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Age limit is not illegal. The government has age limits for most if it's higher level positions.

"In the United States, a person must be at least 35 to be President or Vice President, 30 to be a Senator, or 25 to be a Representative, as specified in the U.S. Constitution."

18 to enter the military.

25 to rent a car for gods sake.

[Jameerthefear]

The only thing it saved was college basketball

[FLDFSU]

Going to college is stupid. If I was a top player I would go the Brandon Jennings route- go to Europe and make a few million for a year and then go to the NBA and make some more millions as a first round pick.

Does anybody know why more players don't go this route?

[Jameerthefear]

Does anybody know why more players don't go this route?
Maybe you lose exposure or something? Maybe most scouts don't trust the skill of the Euroleague? Idk.

[navy]

Does anybody know why more players don't go this route?
You get exposure in College.

[Akrazotile]

Which shouldn't surprise anyone, since to be considered as a straight to high school pick, you need to be pretty good to begin with. A Tyler Hansbrough wouldn't have to ask himself if he needs to go straight to the pros.


Why u gotta be racist doe

[Y2ktors]

Needs to be raised three years. 1 year is pointless.

No it isn't. It got the NBA scouts out of the HS gyms and back into the collegiate arenas, which is where they need to be.

But I do agree that it needs to be raised to more than just 1 year.

[Draz]

Age limit should be 21.

[CelticBaller]

Not sure what that could possibly mean for you, but no Kobe was nowhere close to KG/Lebron, those guys came in immediately with a bang, they were more NBA ready physically, mentally & were simply more talented/skilled. I just dont think Kobe was that same exception, taking him at 18 is ok only if you knew what he would become much later... but you dont...
KG was putting up 10 ppg and came in with a bang? Kobe put up 8 points ffs

[Lebron23]

An 18 yrs.old kid has a higher ceiling than a 21/22 yrs.old college player. Just look at Jermaine O'Neal. He was benched in his first few years, but he became a much better player after the Blazers traded him to the Indiana Pacers. And he was a top 3 pf in the league during his prime.

Pippen said that a 21 yrs.old Jermaine O'Neal was the blazers best player in practice, but the blazers coaching staff didn't gave him an opportunity to succeed.

[Myth]

The age limit has definitely saved the league. Just ask the Cavs how much better their #1 picks have turned out with college experience rather than jumping straight from high school.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Does anybody know why more players don't go this route?

Exposure, close to home, perception of better coaching, moving to a new country is scary as ****, and college is fun.

[VIP2000]

Does anybody know why more players don't go this route?

I would imagine cultural issues and lack of playing time. A 18 year old fresh out of high school living with his parents might have to adjust living in a completely different environment thousands of miles away from home, and possibly learn a new language.

Plus, a lot of the Euro teams won't give playing time to 18 year olds.

[Lebron23]

I would imagine cultural issues and lack of playing time. A 18 year old fresh out of high school living with his parents might have to adjust living in a completely different environment thousands of miles away from home, and possibly learn a new language.

Plus, a lot of the Euro teams won't give playing time to 18 year olds.

Welcome back to this forum. I completely agree with your posts.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Does anybody know why more players don't go this route?

Cause they end up having low production thus dropping their draft stock. Jennings would have been a top 3 pick if he went to Kentucky

[Ancient Legend]

false

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2171&mode=print&nocache=1358639181

On that link they call Jermaine O Neal a SuperStar in the tier of LeBron and Kobe :roll:

Anyway, both Amare and Dwight Howard could have benefited massively from playing in College. One didn't develop any defensive skills, the other any offensive ones.

[Nash]

For Kobe i cant agree though, he wasnt really success in the NBA out of HS, he needed at least 1-2 more years.
lol you must be smoking some shit. who cares how long it took, he didn't need college to be great

[Nash]

On that link they call Jermaine O Neal a SuperStar in the tier of LeBron and Kobe :roll:

Anyway, both Amare and Dwight Howard could have benefited massively from playing in College. One didn't develop any defensive skills, the other any offensive ones.
i'm sorry, but is there some kind of magic teaching that goes on in college that would have made Amare a defensive expert or give Howard offensive moves?

people need to stop overrating what college can do for a player, if anything, it keeps them away from playing against the best which is the most important factor in a players development. playing against a bunch of scrubs in college where 99% of your opponents don't even make the NBA is not good for you.

[indiefan24]

Not sure what that could possibly mean for you, but no Kobe was nowhere close to KG/Lebron, those guys came in immediately with a bang, they were more NBA ready physically, mentally & were simply more talented/skilled. I just dont think Kobe was that same exception, taking him at 18 is ok only if you knew what he would become much later... but you dont...

Wrong about KG

[Droid101]

KG was putting up 10 ppg and came in with a bang? Kobe put up 8 points ffs
Pauk has no clue about basketball. He started watching probably around 2005 or 2006.

[FLDFSU]

Something like all the all-star starters save Curry never went to college or are one and done.

College does nothing to help with your NBA success. It is a complete myth.

[houston]

You guys honestly think 1 year in college makes a difference? :lol the best players will always rise to the top. Don't blame the kids because there are dumbass GM's that can't see that certain players need more development. The NCAA exists as a system to exploit these kids.


yup lolol:applause:

[RichieW]

Should be given the choice. Either come straight out of HS (for the Lebron, Howard, Garnett quality players) or play minimum 2 years in college.

[RichieW]

Something like all the all-star starters save Curry never went to college or are one and done.

College does nothing to help with your NBA success. It is a complete myth.

Disagree. College does a huge amount for the maturity of players coming in to the league. The difference between 18 straight out of home and 20 after living at college for a couple years is huge.

[Nash]

Disagree. College does a huge amount for the maturity of players coming in to the league. The difference between 18 straight out of home and 20 after living at college for a couple years is huge.
It doesn't do shit, you play 1 year with a bunch of super scrubs and you are out. Much rather play with players in the NBA and train with them every day.

[BoutPractice]

Why u gotta be racist doe
Tyler Hansbrough just came to mind as an example of a player who needed college to show he could play in the NBA - his great college production is what caught the eyes of scouts, not his translatable attributes at his position.

Typically a straight from HS player is both physically impressive and precociously gifted.

[ralph_i_el]

Screw that, get rid of all age requirements. I want to see pro 16 year olds. While we're at it, remove the cap on individual players salaries and get rid of the hard salary cap for teams. Dump the rookie wage scale too. Teams will have to start giving out less guaranteed money or they'll be ****ed into oblivion by their bad moves.

Let the free market sort it out.


This is one tiny sliver of my plan for a perfect world where college sports become essentially minor league teams affiliated with schools and the players get paid (straight $$$ or scholarships, don't make kids go to class who don't want/need to). The NCAA is a racket that exploits the labor of young athletes.

[fandarko]

Going to college is stupid. If I was a top player I would go the Brandon Jennings route- go to Europe and make a few million for a year and then go to the NBA and make some more millions as a first round pick.

Jennings never made millions in Europe, since he averaged 7 points a game.

[fandarko]

I would imagine cultural issues and lack of playing time. A 18 year old fresh out of high school living with his parents might have to adjust living in a completely different environment thousands of miles away from home, and possibly learn a new language.

Plus, a lot of the Euro teams won't give playing time to 18 year olds.

Because they are not good enough (too young) to get serious PT in men-dominated, stacked European leagues, playing a team oriented, more physical and slower brand of basketball. It's not exactly a place for one to make a name for themselves.

[Y2ktors]

It doesn't do shit, you play 1 year with a bunch of super scrubs and you are out. Much rather play with players in the NBA and train with them every day.

That's part of the problem. These players are only playing a year, which is sometimes just as bad as jumping straight from HS.

Raise the age limit and you'll see a better product.

[Kblaze8855]

There are 20 something guys who came straight from HS and became either stars or very productive role players(ill say 14+PPG...guys like Al Harrington). Of only 35-40 players drafted. And plenty who didnt were still guys who had good NBA careers and helped teams win. Deshawn Stevenson types. Martell Webster. Dorrell Wright who was putting up 16 a game a couple years ago. And im not even counting say...Kyrie who only played 11 games of college ball.

The rate at which a straight from HS player becomes a good to great NBA player destroys the rate of any other. Granted...thats because its amazing talents who get drafted out of HS. But fact is...those amazing talents hold their own at a rate beyond the norm. The idea that the good players are the exception is just factualy incorrect.

From Dawkins in 75 to now there are 7 guys you could call a scrub who came straight from HS. But 10 all stars several of which are HOF level. Which doesnt even count Eddy Curry who was a 19ppg player, Harrington who was putting up about 18 a game for 5 years, Josh Smith who has been a borderline al lstar for 8 years, Monta Ellis who has been borderline for years, Al Jefferson who is a not quite franchise player, Lou Williams who has been a 6th man of the year contender for like 5 years, and other perfectly good players who had career worthy of college lottery picks.

Making guys go to school helps scouting. It helps weed out a couple of the frauds.

But the idea that most of the guys who made the jump were scrubs with a few gems in the mix is just absurd when you actually look at the list.

[LAZERUSS]

It has ruined the college game, but the reality is, it is more practical to get these players in the NBA as fast as possible. And it is not just the NBA, either. Baseball teams are rushing their top pitching prospects in the majors ASAP. And look at QBs in the NFL (granted, they had to wait for 2-3 years in college.) It used to be that an Aaron Rodgers would sit for a few seasons. Now they are starting from day one.

BTW, I haven't had an interest in the college game since the late 80's.

[hitmanyr2k]

Age limit is not illegal. The government has age limits for most if it's higher level positions.

"In the United States, a person must be at least 35 to be President or Vice President, 30 to be a Senator, or 25 to be a Representative, as specified in the U.S. Constitution."

18 to enter the military.

25 to rent a car for gods sake.

I've always said if you're old enough to be sent to hostile territory to possibly die in a war for this country then you're old enough to do anything else.

[ihoopallday]

Nah it just gave athletes more time to mature sexually in college. But college *****>>>

[SpecialQue]

Not sure what that could possibly mean for you, but no Kobe was nowhere close to KG/Lebron, those guys came in immediately with a bang, they were more NBA ready physically, mentally & were simply more talented/skilled. I just dont think Kobe was that same exception, taking him at 18 is ok only if you knew what he would become much later... but you dont...

The coach specifically limited his minutes, even though he knew he was capable of more.

[Genaro]

1 year in college don't help people. Play against week competition without getting pay when you could be developing against top competition is just a way to make money for NCAA.

If it was my call I would drop the age restriction.