This is the level of NBA games in the 60s...

[iamgine]

This is playoff between 2 great teams:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDK5VDdX-yo


What do you think about the level of play back then compared to more modern times? Better? Worse? About the same?

[TylerOO]

Looks like the old men that play halfcourt at the park

[fragokota]

strong era for sure, if that's what you're implying

[LAZERUSS]

Just ask Kareem.

He faced the best centers of the 60's, and the best centers of the 90's, and guess which one's gave him more trouble?

[CelticBaller]

I would be LBJ in that era, minus the choking and colluding ofc

[SuperPippen]

I would be LBJ in that era, minus the choking and colluding ofc

:roll: Damn, you're funny.

[DonDadda59]

Honestly, looks about the same. Only difference is some of the dribbling isn't as fancy, but the passing and ball movement is a lot more fluid and crisp than what you see with most squads today. Only negative I can see is some of the jump shots are horrendous, but just could be because of fatigue, this was the 4th quarter of a playoff game so that would make sense.

Doesn't look too different from how the Spurs typically play. Personally I don't know much about this era of ball outside of stats, haven't seen too much game footage beyond a few Wilt or Bob Cousy highlights. But I think the games being in B&W have a lot to do with how people perceive it psychologically.

Here's a game that was in the related vids section from just 2 seasons later (Russell vs Wilt again, when the big dipper was with LA).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnu5vMfPtbw

How does it compare to the OP and modern NBA ball?

[GOATbe]

Geez :facepalm . Godbe would have a career average of 60ppg+ if he had the privilege of playing in such a weak era.

[Dbrog]

Honestly, looks about the same. Only difference is some of the dribbling isn't as fancy, but the passing and ball movement is a lot more fluid and crisp than what you see with most squads today. Only negative I can see is some of the jump shots are horrendous, but just could be because of fatigue, this was the 4th quarter of a playoff game so that would make sense.

Doesn't look too different from how the Spurs typically play. Personally I don't know much about this era of ball outside of stats, haven't seen too much game footage beyond a few Wilt or Bob Cousy highlights. But I think the games being in B&W have a lot to do with how people perceive it psychologically.

Here's a game that was in the related vids section from just 2 seasons later (Russell vs Wilt again, when the big dipper was with LA).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnu5vMfPtbw

How does it compare to the OP and modern NBA ball?

Exactly. Was going to post this. What honestly is different in this other than tempo? We get to see some nice skills from the various greats here. Bill running the floor, Wilts passing game, oldman Baylor still will sick body control and touch by the basket, West's shooting touch

[Dr Hawk]

67' Celtics vs 13' All-WNBA 1st team. Who you got?

[DonDadda59]

Exactly. Was going to post this. What honestly is different in this other than tempo? We get to see some nice skills from the various greats here. Bill running the floor, Wilts passing game, oldman Baylor still will sick body control and touch by the basket, West's shooting touch

I need to watch more games from the era. But watching those 2 vids just reminded me of a typical Spurs game. No pointless dribbling or ball-hogging, ball is constantly in motion and so are the players, no real super athleticism on display just fundamentals. I wonder if there were any Clippers-like squads then- team full of ridiculous athletes who put on dunking exhibitions every night but can't get out of the 1st round :lol

[cos88]

http://youtu.be/TDK5VDdX-yo?t=5m10s

ref is on acid

[cos88]

if someone asks about dribbling and why it looks so stiff is because palming wasn't legal/overlooked back then not because that's the only way they can dribble.


sure players now have better dribbling moves but that has nothing to do with their skills or talents, they just had to follow different rules.



also this was 47 years ago it's natural the game evolves as every single thing in world did ( except for quality skilled big man with post moves which are extinct now )

[cos88]

^ bookmark and rep me when you can for educating some of you clowns :cheers:

[pezt]

Current Bucks would be undefeated Champions.

[Dbrog]

I need to watch more games from the era. But watching those 2 vids just reminded me of a typical Spurs game. No pointless dribbling or ball-hogging, ball is constantly in motion and so are the players, no real super athleticism on display just fundamentals. I wonder if there were any Clippers-like squads then- team full of ridiculous athletes who put on dunking exhibitions every night but can't get out of the 1st round :lol

Hahaha ya maybe Oscar's Royals or something. Could only imagine prime Oscar diming everywhere. Probably not much dunking though since it was considered showboating back then. A team I would really like to know more about were the 60s St Louis Hawks. I know they were pretty beast almost every year and incredibly stacked...just ran into Wilt a lot.

[navy]

They lack muscle mass.

[tomtucker]

:eek: ................they hit the basket just as good as the players of today

[LAZERUSS]

Interesting too that the NBA shot a higher FT% in the 58-59 season (.756) than they are doing in today's NBA (.753.) Or that in the 73-74 season, it was at .771.

I guess those players were just better shooters...

[secund2nun]

Looks like the old men that play halfcourt at the park

+1

I can't believe people actually take players and stats serious from that era. :oldlol:

[Ed Wachter]

Imagine if the 1902-03 Camden Electrics played today. Pure shooting talent by comparison.

http://i.imgur.com/uTqN0Hu.jpg

[DonDadda59]

They lack muscle mass.

These dudes were a Ray Allen miracle shot away from winning it all last June :lol

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/dam/assets/130605114130-san-antonio-spurs-nba-finals-2013-tim-duncan-tony-parker-manu-ginobili-single-image-cut.jpg

Hopefully the NBA's anti-doping program catches them soon.

And lest we forget that this guy...

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/boris_diaw_opt_in_062913.jpg

Shut down this guy for a huge chunk of the series...

http://www.ballplaya.com/xe/files/attach/images/45634/701/065/e50476c2bf7db9634a5ec590309ad973.jpg

:roll:

[Ancient Legend]

There was no blatant palming of the ball like today. Other than that the level is comparable. Next

[andgar923]

These dudes were a Ray Allen miracle shot away from winning it all last June :lol

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/dam/assets/130605114130-san-antonio-spurs-nba-finals-2013-tim-duncan-tony-parker-manu-ginobili-single-image-cut.jpg

Hopefully the NBA's anti-doping program catches them soon.

And lest we forget that this guy...

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/boris_diaw_opt_in_062913.jpg

Shut down this guy for a huge chunk of the series...

http://www.ballplaya.com/xe/files/attach/images/45634/701/065/e50476c2bf7db9634a5ec590309ad973.jpg

:roll:

to top it off, they were old/past their prime and playing injured.

Nique stated how hard the Celtics were at beating recently. Even tho the Hawks were uber athletic and young while the Celts were slower and unathletic they couldn't beat the Celts. It wasn't as tho the Hawks were sucky, it just happened to be that the Celts were better. Lakers were a fast athletic team as well, but even they couldn't always beat the Celts.

Athleticism can only help you so much if the ball is constantly moving and there's set plays with tons of screens on offense. No player can move faster than the ball, plain and simple. There's also a reason why And1 type handles aren't used on every play of the game. Yeah they can come in handy in certain scenarios, but the vast majority of the game is played almost the same way as its always been.

[DonDadda59]

to top it off, they were old/past their prime and playing injured.

Nique stated how hard the Celtics were at beating recently. Even tho the Hawks were uber athletic and young while the Celts were slower and unathletic they couldn't beat the Celts. It wasn't as tho the Hawks were sucky, it just happened to be that the Celts were better. Lakers were a fast athletic team as well, but even they couldn't always beat the Celts.

Athleticism can only help you so much if the ball is constantly moving and there's set plays with tons of screens on offense. No player can move faster than the ball, plain and simple. There's also a reason why And1 type handles aren't used on every play of the game. Yeah they can come in handy in certain scenarios, but the vast majority of the game is played almost the same way as its always been.

Yeah, I would take the 86 Celtics over any team ever in a 7 game series. Obviously not the most athletic squad, but they had extremely skilled players at every position and just played the game the right way. Basically a younger and far more stacked/talented version of the Spurs today.

Athleticism gets overrated by many. If that's all it took, the Clippers would be championship favorites every year instead of first round losers.

[secund2nun]

These dudes were a Ray Allen miracle shot away from winning it all last June :lol

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/dam/assets/130605114130-san-antonio-spurs-nba-finals-2013-tim-duncan-tony-parker-manu-ginobili-single-image-cut.jpg

Hopefully the NBA's anti-doping program catches them soon.

And lest we forget that this guy...

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/boris_diaw_opt_in_062913.jpg

Shut down this guy for a huge chunk of the series...

http://www.ballplaya.com/xe/files/attach/images/45634/701/065/e50476c2bf7db9634a5ec590309ad973.jpg

:roll:

25/11/7 finals MVP is being shut down? :roll:

[Micku]

if someone asks about dribbling and why it looks so stiff is because palming wasn't legal/overlooked back then not because that's the only way they can dribble.
I don't know. Back then ppl were amaze of how Bob Cousy was handling the ball. There was a clear difference in terms of dribbling with guys like Bob Cousy who didn't look as awkward or stiff compared to the other perimeter players when going left. Since a lot of guys today have better dribbling skills as Cousy, and don't look awkward going to their left either. But it's not players couldn't go to their left at all tho.

Other skills like passing was always great.



also this was 47 years ago it's natural the game evolves as every single thing in world did ( except for quality skilled big man with post moves which are extinct now )

Wilt imo always looked awkward when backing down. Some of the footwork looked awkward too. Compare to a guy like Willis Reed who didn't look nearly as awkward with his dribbling or his jumpshot. Wilt didn't box out often it seems. I guess you can argue that he didn't need to because he jumped higher and is stronger than the other guys.

But despite that, Wilt had a variety of post moves and a nice touch to finish. You can see old Wilt vs Kareem and old Kareem vs Hakeem. As you said, post moves are extinct now for big men. It's just the style of play atm, so one team have to get a big guy (whoever that is out there in the world) and play that style of basketball and win a championship with it to encourage the rest of the league to do so again.

[DonDadda59]

25/11/7 finals MVP is being shut down? :roll:

Come on dawg, we all watched the series. Whenever Diaw was on him, Bron couldn't get anything done. For long stretches he looked like his 2011 finals self with the Spurs daring him to shoot by giving him like 5 ft of space. He picked it up towards the end of the series though.

[La Frescobaldi]

if someone asks about dribbling and why it looks so stiff is because palming wasn't legal/overlooked back then not because that's the only way they can dribble.


sure players now have better dribbling moves but that has nothing to do with their skills or talents, they just had to follow different rules.



also this was 47 years ago it's natural the game evolves as every single thing in world did ( except for quality skilled big man with post moves which are extinct now )

Not extinct. This man has elite skills in the key:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1857js52mbsz1jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

[tragicbronson]

Not extinct. This man has elite skills in the key:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1857js52mbsz1jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Al_Jefferson_Bobcats_shot.JPG

And this one

[Droid101]

These guys aren't even keeping their hands up on defense. This is hard to watch.

[Droid101]

That defense at 2:19 :roll:

If you think this is any where near as good a league as the modern times, you are delusional.

[La Frescobaldi]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Al_Jefferson_Bobcats_shot.JPG

And this one

yes. and this guy is probably going to in another couple seasons:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/1208/mag_davis01jr_576x324.jpg

[Odinn]

I wonder these disrespectfuls are also discrediting Pele, Eusebio, Gerd M

[SHAQisGOAT]

No 3pt line, no palming/carrying, more physical contact, but yea I see no MAJOR difference, and that's only 7 minutes of footage, out of one game.

Wilt was ****ing huge too.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Honestly, looks about the same. Only difference is some of the dribbling isn't as fancy, but the passing and ball movement is a lot more fluid and crisp than what you see with most squads today. Only negative I can see is some of the jump shots are horrendous, but just could be because of fatigue, this was the 4th quarter of a playoff game so that would make sense.

Doesn't look too different from how the Spurs typically play. Personally I don't know much about this era of ball outside of stats, haven't seen too much game footage beyond a few Wilt or Bob Cousy highlights. But I think the games being in B&W have a lot to do with how people perceive it psychologically.

Here's a game that was in the related vids section from just 2 seasons later (Russell vs Wilt again, when the big dipper was with LA).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnu5vMfPtbw

How does it compare to the OP and modern NBA ball?

I agree.


to top it off, they were old/past their prime and playing injured.

Nique stated how hard the Celtics were at beating recently. Even tho the Hawks were uber athletic and young while the Celts were slower and unathletic they couldn't beat the Celts. It wasn't as tho the Hawks were sucky, it just happened to be that the Celts were better. Lakers were a fast athletic team as well, but even they couldn't always beat the Celts.

Athleticism can only help you so much if the ball is constantly moving and there's set plays with tons of screens on offense. No player can move faster than the ball, plain and simple. There's also a reason why And1 type handles aren't used on every play of the game. Yeah they can come in handy in certain scenarios, but the vast majority of the game is played almost the same way as its always been.

Very well said.


Yeah, I would take the 86 Celtics over any team ever in a 7 game series. Obviously not the most athletic squad, but they had extremely skilled players at every position and just played the game the right way. Basically a younger and far more stacked/talented version of the Spurs today.

Athleticism gets overrated by many. If that's all it took, the Clippers would be championship favorites every year instead of first round losers.

Same here.
Don't even know how they could beat teams like the Lakers with Worthy, Cooper and Scott, the Hawks with Nique, Willis, Webb, Levingston and Rivers or the Bulls with Jordan, Woolridge, Oldham, Green and Banks, etc, though :rolleyes:

Well said.

[Mr. Jabbar]

holy shit, wilt was like 1 whole torso higher than his peers :facepalm

we gotta rank 60's era all time greats in a diff ranking guys

[SHABBA]

Not extinct. This man has elite skills in the key:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1857js52mbsz1jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/F3Zb7to.jpg

[tpols]

Just ask Kareem.

He faced the best centers of the 60's, and the best centers of the 90's, and guess which one's gave him more trouble?
It's not the big men that look outdated.. its the guards.

[tpols]

Exactly. Was going to post this. What honestly is different in this other than tempo?
The guys are dribbling with their heads down at a few points

A bunch of them had heavy right bias and couldnt go left strong.. ballhandling in general looks robotic and stiff

The defenders on the perimeter are giving the ballhandler like 3+ feet of room when hes dribbling inside what would be the 3 pt line today.. Steph Curry would literally drop 100.:oldlol: He could shoot from places they would consider full court heaves at like 60+% with no pressure or hand in his face



The overall athleticism from the guards looks like shit.. Couldnt imagine what would happen if you threw Lebron in there and allowed him to run free.

[MavsSuperFan]

The level of the NBA in the 60s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Today.

F2A Buffalo >>>>>>>>>>>>>> F22 raptor

[CavaliersFTW]

Just ask Kareem.

He faced the best centers of the 60's, and the best centers of the 90's, and guess which one's gave him more trouble?
:applause:

[Calabis]

Geez :facepalm . Godbe would have a career average of 60ppg+ if he had the privilege of playing in such a weak era.

GODbe wouldn't avg crap, he would have no influences to pick from. These guys had no one to copy from.....they created moves and did things never done up until that point.

Its stupid as hell to compare past to current, when the current has had the benefit to steal from pioneers.

Jesse Owens ran a sub 10/100 on shitty tracks and horrible shoes.....somehow with todays technology he would be slower?

Wilt was a stud who grew up during a time of segregation/racism, without AAU's, without full time basketball, without technology and equipment, yet somehow he would be worse?:facepalm

Take any of those guys who played from back then and give them the same advances and stuff.....and those players would be just as good if not better today.

Half these pussiesss from today would have never made it to the league back then, due to the social injustices and inequality that took place back then.

[MavsSuperFan]

GODbe wouldn't avg crap, he would have no influences to pick from. These guys had no one to copy from.....they created moves and did things never done up until that point.

Its stupid as hell to compare past to current, when the current has had the benefit to steal from pioneers.

Jesse Owens ran a sub 10/100 on shitty tracks and horrible shoes.....somehow with todays technology he would be slower?

Wilt was a stud who grew up during a time of segregation/racism, without AAU's, without full time basketball, without technology and equipment, yet somehow he would be worse?:facepalm

Take any of those guys who played from back then and give them the same advances and stuff.....and those players would be just as good if not better today.

Half these pussiesss from today would have never made it to the league back then, due to the social injustices and inequality that took place back then.
These blind fools that believe their eyes.

NBA in the 1960s>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nba today

http://i33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg

is obviously much better than

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1117215/IrvingWow2.gif

[Calabis]

These blind fools that believe their eyes.

NBA in the 1960s>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nba today

http://i33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg

is obviously much better than

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1117215/IrvingWow2.gif

Its called reading comprehension...does Irvin, dribble like that without ever seeing a crossover? Also that would be called palming/carrying back then.

Also Cousy and his team dominated their peers back then....all that fancy dribbling hasn't helped Irvin do the same..except in Pepsi commercials

[Psileas]

GODbe wouldn't avg crap, he would have no influences to pick from. These guys had no one to copy from.....they created moves and did things never done up until that point.

Its stupid as hell to compare past to current, when the current has had the benefit to steal from pioneers.

Jesse Owens ran a sub 10/100 on shitty tracks and horrible shoes.....somehow with todays technology he would be slower?

Wilt was a stud who grew up during a time of segregation/racism, without AAU's, without full time basketball, without technology and equipment, yet somehow he would be worse?:facepalm

Take any of those guys who played from back then and give them the same advances and stuff.....and those players would be just as good if not better today.

Half these pussiesss from today would have never made it to the league back then, due to the social injustices and inequality that took place back then.

Logical points, but I hope you don't expect a poster like the one you quote to be able to sniff a perspective that goes beyond his everyday life.

[Angel Face]

So that's why Wilt scored 50 a night back then.

[CavaliersFTW]

OP's trying to tease but it backfired :oldlol:

Here's footage of another team (Royals) vs Celtics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PUNc8ILqSs

Royals and Celtics both were small ball. This is as opposed to the Sixers team in OP's post which was one of the most physically imposing front courts in history (Wilt about 290lbs would be listed 7-3 today, Jackson about 270lbs would be listed 6-11 today (he was 6-9), Walker about 230lbs would be listed 6-8 today) and only Wilt out of those 3 weighed that much through weight training. Saw some comments about shooting form - Wali Jones on the Sixers was notorious for his awkward looking shot. That's probably who you're talking about.

Also, here's the complete 1969 NBA All Star game:
First half
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X49Vi7IRyKE
Second half
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTMZ_8ijyAE

Glad most of you already pointed out the differences between ball handling rules. Also obvious of course is the 3 point line changing spacing, there's a lot more traffic in the high-post and mid-range back then.

Anybody who tries to mock their defense I feel bad for, do you not realize how wide open guards/forwards have it today? The NBA isn't even hiding the fact that they want a totally un-impeded slash-oriented driving game today, by eliminating contact in backcourt defenses and always favoring the driving player on offense on foul calls. One who is accustomed to a 60's-80's style reffed game notices hand checking and how it helps backcourt defenders and actually cringes when they see today's defenders 'with their hands up' (yet absolutely helpless to slow some 6 foot point guard from dunking because the defender can't TOUCH them). Just a different game, slightly. Fundamentally, it's all still basketball though you still shoot, you still rebound, you still pass, you still defend 5 on 5 with 2 identical baskets on an identical size court.

[MavsSuperFan]

Its called reading comprehension...does Irvin, dribble like that without ever seeing a crossover? Also that would be called palming/carrying back then.

Also Cousy and his team dominated their peers back then....all that fancy dribbling hasn't helped Irvin do the same..except in Pepsi commercials
Because the are going against a different level of competition. Also you and I agree Cousy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Irving

[Psileas]

Its called reading comprehension...does Irvin, dribble like that without ever seeing a crossover? Also that would be called palming/carrying back then.

Also Cousy and his team dominated their peers back then....all that fancy dribbling hasn't helped Irvin do the same..except in Pepsi commercials

Lol, the play he shows contains like 1 TO per second by 60's rules with all that blatant carries. :oldlol: Not to mention the ball hitting his foot, which would definitely be whistled, as well.

[Angel Face]

Looks like they're having a hard time dribbling with their left hand.

[Psileas]

Anybody who tries to mock their defense I feel bad for, do you not realize how wide open guards/forwards have it today? The NBA isn't even hiding the fact that they want a totally un-resisted slash-oriented driving game today, by eliminating contact in backcourt defenses and always favoring the driving player on offense on foul calls.

Not to mention those infamous modern suffocating double-teams. Where were they yesterday when Melo was torching the Bobcats? Dude was hitting shot after shot against his opponent and yet he'd get doubled maybe like once per 5 touches, and even then, loosely.

[MavsSuperFan]

Lol, the play he shows contains like 1 TO per second by 60's rules with all that blatant carries. :oldlol: Not to mention the ball hitting his foot, which would definitely be whistled, as well.
:applause: :applause: Cousy had the GOAT handles:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Calabis]

Logical points, but I hope you don't expect a poster like the one you quote to be able to sniff a perspective that goes beyond his everyday life.

It amazes me how people can't appreciate the past.....Oscar, Wilt, Russell...if it was so easy to do what they did, why did't we have 4-5 guys avg a triple double back then, why didn't we have 5 guys avg 50 back then, etc. They dominated their peers in a much stricter, more structured(smaller meaning more talent/depth on a team) league.

Yet these morons are yelling out....LBJ/Godbe would avg 60....lmao..yeah sure they would. They wouldn't do anything more than they would today...Coaches would be more strict and have a ton more power than today...no one to copy moves from, no full time basketball, no more instant fame in High School...nothing except shut your mouth and play.

or

look at the slow white guy who isn't very athletic what a joke he couldn't make my weekend league team....oh you mean like Kevin Love(not quick, not a great leaper, but a guy who plays fundamentally sound and uses those fundamentals to beat the shit out of guys touching the top of the backboard) how is that possible with todays UBER athletes?

[PHILA]

That defense at 2:19 :roll:

Did you not hear the ref blow the whistle? That is a foul before the shot.

[GrapeApe]

The footage I've seen from that era reminds me of college ball, and I don't mean that in a negative way. Today's NBA is largely the result of how the league is marketed. It's as much entertainment as it is sport. I love the modern NBA, but it's a very unique style of basketball, even when compared to other high level leagues around the world. That being said, great players would be great in any era under any rules IMO.

[JohnnyA]

Just about every sport where the result can be measured has shown a significant improvement over time. This even more apparaent when you consider averages instead of world records (a world record may be skewed due to one freak athlete, but a basketball team has many players).

In the 1960 Olympics the 100m winner ran 10.2s, in 2012 the only finalist not to run under 10s was Asafa Powell who suffered an injury.

In 2012 nearly every finalist was 5% faster than the winner in 1960. In the context of a competitve sport 5% is a huge difference. If you chase someone down a court 5% means that the person is around 4 feet in front of you.

On sheer athleticism todays teams would absolutely destroy a team from the 60's.

On skills its harder to make a judgement, but todays players train more than the players of the 60's, and they train smarter. They have teams of coaches, nutritionists, trainers, video guys, etc. They have the benefits of newer technology, and the weight of an extra 50 years of cumulative basketball knowledge. They likely had exposure to higher level competition and coaching at a much earlier age.

I expect even on skills alone todays teams would still be dominant.

- - - -

EDIT: I would just like to add that this doesn't mean I think there aren't individual players who could survive and even thrive in todays NBA. If you gave them the benefits of todays training there is no question, and some players would surely be great even if you plucked them straight out of the 60's.

[poido123]

This is playoff between 2 great teams:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDK5VDdX-yo


What do you think about the level of play back then compared to more modern times? Better? Worse? About the same?


Underarm free throw for the win :lol

Not up to the modern standards, but then again you shouldn't compare eras. Different rules, technology, and speed of the game...

[Nikola_]

weaker era because they didnt do flashy dribbles:applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

Just about every sport where the result can be measured has shown a significant improvement over time. This even more apparaent when you consider averages instead of world records (a world record may be skewed due to one freak athlete, but a basketball team has many players).

In the 1960 Olympics the 100m winner ran 10.2s, in 2012 the only finalist not to run under 10s was Asafa Powell who suffered an injury.

In 2012 nearly every finalist was 5% faster than the winner in 1960. In the context of a competitve sport 5% is a huge difference. If you chase someone down a court 5% means that the person is around 4 feet in front of you.

On sheer athleticism todays teams would absolutely destroy a team from the 60's.

On skills its harder to make a judgement, but todays players train more than the players of the 60's, and they train smarter. They have teams of coaches, nutritionists, trainers, video guys, etc. They have the benefits of newer technology, and the weight of an extra 50 years of cumulative basketball knowledge. They likely had exposure to higher level competition and coaching at a much earlier age.

I expect even on skills alone todays teams would still be dominant.

- - - -

EDIT: I would just like to add that this doesn't mean I think there aren't individual players who could survive and even thrive in todays NBA. If you gave them the benefits of todays training there is no question, and some players would surely be great even if you plucked them straight out of the 60's.
lol at anyone who uses track and field which is a sport of individual athleticism that gets immensely helped by the development of technology (track surfaces and shoes are different, timing equipment is different, heck STYLES of how to perform certain events such as high jump have radically changed) as an analogy of a dynamic team oriented sport where 5 minds need to connect like basketball.

Not at all comparable. Sorry.

[fpliii]

:facepalm

[GOATbe]

These blind fools that believe their eyes.

NBA in the 1960s>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nba today

http://i33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg


http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/196fuarapyylmgif/ku-xlarge.gif

[Lebron23]

Wilt looks like a giant stiff (Bano/Banban) in that video. That's why thank the basketball Gods for the NBA and ABA Merger. Please don't compare the Spurs to the 1960's players. Even a past his prime Manu would destroy these stiffs.

[Lebron23]

These blind fools that believe their eyes.

NBA in the 1960s>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nba today

http://i33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg

is obviously much better than

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1117215/IrvingWow2.gif

LMAO at that old school ankle breaker. That's why they introduced the 24 seconds shot clock/ and 8 secs (formerly 10 secs) back court violations.

[LAZERUSS]

White kid that played college ball in the 60's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfWkiO2Iz08

[absalom]

Wow, the lady announcer is the one in the Wilt blocking Kareem.

And Wilt with the Rick Barry style free throw. :pimp:

[moe94]

These blind fools that believe their eyes.

NBA in the 1960s>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nba today

http://i33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg

is obviously much better than

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1117215/IrvingWow2.gif

http://replygif.net/i/214.gif

I audibly laughed.

[Nick Young]

Geez :facepalm . Godbe would have a career average of 60ppg+ if he had the privilege of playing in such a weak era.
Wow Godbe would destroy this era, they'd have to double him even without the ball to keep him in check:lol

[Leftimage]

Wow Godbe would destroy this era, they'd have to double him even without the ball to keep him in check:lol

Now imagine with a first-tier guy like Lebron or Durant ! :bowdown:

[RichieW]

Agree with someone from the first page, if a current era player went back and played in the '60s they'd get called for carrying the ball on every dribble.

[RichieW]

Also, anyone on this forum who thinks they could play in a game like this is deluded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_uAJlWP0lQ (knicks vs bucks '70 full game)

[plowking]

Why are the old timers, or those who appreciate the older basketball clips so offended when people don't think that it was that high of a standard?
There are some skills that were severely lacking then, and it clearly didn't allow the game to be played to its full potential on both sides of the ball.
Mainly what I see is, the perimeter play, both on offense and defense. Anyone who wants to pretend its of a similar level, go right ahead, pretend to be PC about it all, and look knowledgeable, but you're clearly wrong.
The guard play is horrendous. Guys picking up their dribble early, poor with the off hand, terrible on the fast break, sloppy ball movement, etc.
The bigs looks more suited, and more polished in regards to modern ball, but even then there are a few adjustments that would need to be made playing in today's game.
Just watching some of the transition defense was horrible as well. All simply in comparison to the modern game, but I can appreciate it for what it is. I'm not one to rank players back then worse because of it. You played in the era that you were born in, and you go up against, and are given the tools to play of your time. I still regard Wilt as the 2nd best player of all time, and Russell somewhere up there, but the level of play is no where near comparable.

[plowking]

Agree with someone from the first page, if a current era player went back and played in the '60s they'd get called for carrying the ball on every dribble.

Another overly used statement thrown out on here. Not everyone puts their hand under the ball with every dribble today. Just in case you were wondering.

[moe94]

I love when people hold onto the "carrying" argument as if that means anything. Some of those guards look like they never dribbled in their entire life.

[RichieW]

Commentator just said (in the link above) 'New York the best defense in basketball, holding opponents to 100 ppg', later its actually said to be 101ppg. An indication of the pace they play

[r0drig0lac]

White kid that played college ball in the 60's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfWkiO2Iz08
this
look at Pete Maravich, thurmond, russell among other great past, then remember that the best rebounder in the world today is kevin love, and players like zach randolph and marc gasol are excelling in the league today and say that the players of yesteryear not could play today is kinda ridiculous

[Kblaze8855]

Another overly used statement thrown out on here. Not everyone puts their hand under the ball with every dribble today. Just in case you were wondering.

By the 60s standards almost all do. Rose, Westbrook, Paul, Kidd, Kyrie, and Rondo all probably carry or travel by 60s standards literally 40 times a game. I know Rose does. Hes my favorite player but lets just be real.

Dudes back then were called for a carry on a hesitation with their hands on the side of the ball.

Im sure guys could adjust...like how in the first couple games with olympic refs you might see 6 travels. I remember Lebron got called for 2 on uncontested fast break dunks once. But it is what it is.

By the old strict rules....90% of the shit we see now is just out.

Plenty of those old guys could do it. I watched a documentary on Earl Monroe once playing back in north carolina in pickup games and he was just murdering people with the carry spins and hesitations people do today. In footage of him on the streets you see the same.

In the real games he had to tighten it up though.

[Kblaze8855]

Earl Monroe in 1965:

http://imageshack.com/a/img541/6909/3mq.gif

Hesitation, spin, and the crossover evading the trap before the no look pass.

Not like guys back then played ball all their lives and never developed ball handling skills. But what you were allowed to get away with was just not the same.

Ive played not quite NBA level(D1) point guards from the early 70s now in their 50s. You dont just rip them. They dribble so low and so quickly and use their body to protect the ball so well its harder to guard than 19 year olds trying to face up and blow by you.

Im used to that. The old way of protecting the ball is a hassle to deal with.

[pauk]

What i always notice the first thing being very different when seeing these 50s/60s games is their ballhandling, many of them cant even dribble with the left hand, even when they run diagonally left & then right around you, there were some great handlers (like seen above) but overall it just cant be compared to the modern era no matter how you twist & turn it, basketball has unfortunately evolved, not only in the ballhandling area.

[Kblaze8855]

Someone...just estimate for me...if they called violations the way Jerry west is called here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_249897&feature=iv&src_vid=FOZVRAy-HUQ&v=PDRQ0FYhC0U


http://imageshack.com/a/img716/4164/03fi.gif



Thats a carry in the 60s.

In the link you can see a slowed down closeup.

If thats a carry....what is what Rondo and Rose do on the break cupping the ball back and forth?

An ejection?

[La Frescobaldi]

Just about every sport where the result can be measured has shown a significant improvement over time. This even more apparaent when you consider averages instead of world records (a world record may be skewed due to one freak athlete, but a basketball team has many players).

In the 1960 Olympics the 100m winner ran 10.2s, in 2012 the only finalist not to run under 10s was Asafa Powell who suffered an injury.

In 2012 nearly every finalist was 5% faster than the winner in 1960. In the context of a competitve sport 5% is a huge difference. If you chase someone down a court 5% means that the person is around 4 feet in front of you.

On sheer athleticism todays teams would absolutely destroy a team from the 60's.

On skills its harder to make a judgement, but todays players train more than the players of the 60's, and they train smarter. They have teams of coaches, nutritionists, trainers, video guys, etc. They have the benefits of newer technology, and the weight of an extra 50 years of cumulative basketball knowledge. They likely had exposure to higher level competition and coaching at a much earlier age.

I expect even on skills alone todays teams would still be dominant.

- - - -

EDIT: I would just like to add that this doesn't mean I think there aren't individual players who could survive and even thrive in todays NBA. If you gave them the benefits of todays training there is no question, and some players would surely be great even if you plucked them straight out of the 60's.

No. Track is just one example of technology making sport records ludicrous.

Put Usain Bolt in these spikes.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/07/19/article-2175334-141D4D2D000005DC-956_306x170.jpg

Let's have him run on cinders instead of a springy computer technology generated track that is known to shave 1/10th of a second & more off of sprint times.

Level the playing field in every respect - and let's see if he's faster than Jesse Owens was in 1936. I'd be curious to find that out.

Or let's give Jesse the diet and stretching regimen that he never even heard of, surround him from age 6 or 8 with world class coaching, trainers, doctors, etc..... then we'll let him run on today's tracks. Then let's see who's faster.

Today's golf driver clubs are so advanced that entire PGA golf courses are obsolete and abandoned because they are too short. Let's get the pro golfers to use hickory clubs and let's see how far and accurate their drives are.

Very soon we are probably going to see Liquid Metal technology on the face of golf clubs. What will golf be like with that stuff? 690 yard drives off the tee?
Sam Snead, Ben Hogan & Tommy Armour were scrubs that would never even make the PGA today!!

[moe94]

Level the playing field in every respect - and let's see if he's faster than Jesse Owens was in 1936. I'd be curious to find that out.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnj31bbqUj1qm00hqo1_250.gif

[ImKobe]

Damn them white guys look stiff as hell.

[La Frescobaldi]

Someone...just estimate for me...if they called violations the way Jerry west is called here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_249897&feature=iv&src_vid=FOZVRAy-HUQ&v=PDRQ0FYhC0U


http://imageshack.com/a/img716/4164/03fi.gif



Thats a carry in the 60s.

In the link you can see a slowed down closeup.

If thats a carry....what is what Rondo and Rose do on the break cupping the ball back and forth?

An ejection?
When Earl was on the Bullets you used to hear something like this from the announcers the first few games every season.

"There's another whistle on the Pearl... He carried it. You can tell he's been playing a different kind of basketball on the playgrounds this summer!!"

"Can you imagine what the NBA was like if those kinds of moves were allowed?"

Now they are allowed, and should be. It makes the game even greater. Forcing D Rose or Rubio or Kyrie to play by the skills rules would take away from the excitement of today's game. I like the fact that the NBA abandoned most of the skills rules. Magic Johnson would never have been magical if they had enforced the 60s skills rules on his game.

I wish they'd get rid of that stupid circle around the basket, though. The rules in the paint that Jordan lived with should be the rules that Durant lives with.

But anyhow measuring the old days through today's eyes is pure revisionism.

[La Frescobaldi]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnj31bbqUj1qm00hqo1_250.gif


With all those advantages, Bolt STILL isn't even a quarter second faster than Jesse was. Put him in those same conditions and then compare them.

[LAZERUSS]

Commentator just said (in the link above) 'New York the best defense in basketball, holding opponents to 100 ppg', later its actually said to be 101ppg. An indication of the pace they play

Yeah...I watch that game, and the overall caliber of play is at least the equal of today's NBA...except...the ball is seldom WALKED up the floor, and team's didn't pass up good shots to run the shot-clock down.

And, both Reed and Alcindor looked brilliant in that game. It is obvious that both were be super-stars in today's NBA.

[Kblaze8855]

When Earl was on the Bullets you used to hear something like this from the announcers the first few games every season.

"There's another whistle on the Pearl... He carried it. You can tell he's been playing a different kind of basketball on the playgrounds this summer!!"

"Can you imagine what the NBA was like if those kinds of moves were allowed?"

I have no doubt guys like Pearl had to take a while to adjust. But they DID have to adjust. They could do a lot more than 10 second clips ever show. They just were not allowed to. So im not sure how we post plays that would be 4 carries comparing it to them as if they couldnt carry as well...if the refs allowed it.


Now they are allowed, and should be. It makes the game even greater. Forcing D Rose or Rubio or Kyrie to play by the skills rules would take away from the excitement of today's game.


Im sure telling Hotsauce he has to follow the rules would make an AND-1 game less exciting. But im not sure it makes for a greater game. Just....different.

Me...id like the rules to just be removed if they arent gonna follow them.

Rewrite it to allow 3 or 4 steps with a clear path....

Say you can get under the ball but only say...once per player per touch. So it isnt called if you make a quick carry but you cant just abuse it.

Something.

When we ignore the rules because they limit fun....just change the rules. Dont call it once a game when guys do it 20. Id complain too if you watch me carry 16 times then call me on #17 in the 4th quarter.

[LAZERUSS]

I have no doubt guys like Pearl had to take a while to adjust. But they DID have to adjust. They could do a lot more than 10 second clips ever show. They just were not allowed to. So im not sure how we post plays that would be 4 carries comparing it to them as if they couldnt carry as well...if the refs allowed it.




Im sure telling Hotsauce he has to follow the rules would make an AND-1 game less exciting. But im not sure it makes for a greater game. Just....different.

Me...id like the rules to just be removed if they arent gonna follow them.

Rewrite it to allow 3 or 4 steps with a clear path....

Say you can get under the ball but only say...once per player per touch. So it isnt called if you make a quick carry but you cant just abuse it.

Something.

When we ignore the rules because they limit fun....just change the rules. Dont call it once a game when guys do it 20. Id complain too if you watch me carry 16 times then call me on #17 in the 4th quarter.

As a sidenote...and I apologize for not remembering the second player's name (I was doing other things while watching it)...on Sports Center last night, they had two "highlights" in which Melo took FOUR steps (and was not whistled), and then another player took SEVEN steps (and also was NOT whistled.) Maybe someone else here might have caught that last night...

[SHAQisGOAT]

By the 60s standards almost all do. Rose, Westbrook, Paul, Kidd, Kyrie, and Rondo all probably carry or travel by 60s standards literally 40 times a game. I know Rose does. Hes my favorite player but lets just be real.

Dudes back then were called for a carry on a hesitation with their hands on the side of the ball.

Im sure guys could adjust...like how in the first couple games with olympic refs you might see 6 travels. I remember Lebron got called for 2 on uncontested fast break dunks once. But it is what it is.

By the old strict rules....90% of the shit we see now is just out.

Plenty of those old guys could do it. I watched a documentary on Earl Monroe once playing back in north carolina in pickup games and he was just murdering people with the carry spins and hesitations people do today. In footage of him on the streets you see the same.

In the real games he had to tighten it up though.


Earl Monroe in 1965:

http://imageshack.com/a/img541/6909/3mq.gif

Hesitation, spin, and the crossover evading the trap before the no look pass.

Not like guys back then played ball all their lives and never developed ball handling skills. But what you were allowed to get away with was just not the same.

Ive played not quite NBA level(D1) point guards from the early 70s now in their 50s. You dont just rip them. They dribble so low and so quickly and use their body to protect the ball so well its harder to guard than 19 year olds trying to face up and blow by you.

Im used to that. The old way of protecting the ball is a hassle to deal with.


Someone...just estimate for me...if they called violations the way Jerry west is called here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_249897&feature=iv&src_vid=FOZVRAy-HUQ&v=PDRQ0FYhC0U


http://imageshack.com/a/img716/4164/03fi.gif



Thats a carry in the 60s.

In the link you can see a slowed down closeup.

If thats a carry....what is what Rondo and Rose do on the break cupping the ball back and forth?

An ejection?

:applause:

[stephanieg]

I think the oldest games I saw where I thought they could easily hang or even dominate in today's league was the '77 finals. Besides the marquis guys most guys were going up and down the floor like crazy, dunking easily, lots of quick fancy passes. Some of the early 70s finals are borderline. Kinda goofy perimeter action, but good big men. Watching so many guys take set shots is pretty funny, but hey, worked for Sam Perkins.

And of course no three point line makes things interesting.

The way some guys shoot FTs is HILARIOUS too. Wilt is probably the funniest of all time. He just chucks it up like he doesn't give a ****. And can't forget Don Nelson.

[fpliii]

No. Today's golf driver clubs are so advanced that entire PGA golf courses are obsolete and abandoned because they are too short. Let's get the pro golfers to use hickory clubs and let's see how far and accurate their drives are.

Very soon we are probably going to see Liquid Metal technology on the face of golf clubs. What will golf be like with that stuff? 690 yard drives off the tee?
Sam Snead, Ben Hogan & Tommy Armour were scrubs that would never even make the PGA today!!
Don't hate, I understand where you're coming from but today's equipment has made golf enjoyable for me (and a lot easier, though still incredibly difficult). :rockon: