Convince me Kobe Bryant isn't Top 10 All Time.

[HOoopCityJones]

I wanna hear what the arguments are that put him outside the top ten greatest to ever play.

[Fudge]

Because he is.

[Crafty]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7381/12111514685_cd91a02545_o.gif

[cos88]

I wanna hear what the arguments are that puts OP outside the top ten greatest f@gots to ever lurk ISH.

[mehyaM24]

lebron has already kicked kobe out of top 10 contention(not that he ever was in the top 10). it took kobe 7 yrs to lead his own TEAM in scoring, whereas lebron led his teams EVERY SINGLE YR...not benchwarming outta high school like a sidekick should....eddie jones is cracking up somewhere. :oldlol:

[Lordsteven]

kobe is definitely top 10. people would debate hes a low top 10, but he's top 10 nonetheless.

[secund2nun]

He had 3 seasons without a loaded team..all in his prime and could not even win a playoff series. He ended up going missed playoffs, 2 first round losses, and the best he could muster up was a 7th seed. Plus in his 7 NBA finals appearances he has never had a great finals. His playoff performance drops and is underwhelming...even his regular season performances are overrated. He is not top 10. Even a player like Ewing is far superior than Kobe ever was.

[r15mohd]

MJ
KAREEM
WILT
MAGIC
RUSSELL
SHAQ
TIMMY
BIRD
HAKEEM
LEBRON

^^^ that's why! (In no particular order)

[Jameerthefear]

Because he isn't better than
Jordan
Magic
KAJ
Wilt
Bird
Shaq
Russell
Lebron
Hakeem
Duncan

[christian1923]

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Lebron
Wilt
Russell

[HOoopCityJones]

LOL @ Hakeem over Kobe.

[b1imtf]

I wanna hear what the arguments are that puts OP outside the top ten greatest f@gots to ever lurk ISH.
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88

[AnaheimLakers24]

I wanna hear what the arguments are that puts OP outside the top ten greatest f@gots to ever lurk ISH.
you took the last spot

[Jameerthefear]

cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
cos88
damn :roll: :roll:

[T_L_P]

If we're going by the general formula, Kobe is around the top 10 (I'd have him at number 10).

But it wouldn't be hard to think of 10 players I'd rather build a franchise around.

[HOoopCityJones]

If we're going by the general formula, Kobe is around the top 10 (I'd have him at number 10).

But it wouldn't be hard to think of 10 players I'd rather build a franchise around.

Duncan is not over Kobe stop that nonsense.

Duncan has never even defended his title successfully.

[pauk]

Well someone could go something like:

1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Lebron
10. Hakeem

But generally he belongs at 8-10 somewhere... or higher if you are a hardcore stan... :P

[Jameerthefear]

where do u have kobe op?

[HOoopCityJones]

where do u have kobe op?

Micheal Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Wilt
Bill Russel
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem

[r15mohd]

Micheal Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Wilt
Bill Russel
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem


TD. And Hakeem are swappable...but higher than SHAQ?!? :wtf:

[pauk]

Micheal Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Wilt
Bill Russel
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem

With that list you should have instead started a "Convince me Lebron James IS top 10 all time" thread..... because its extremly easy to do...

[HOoopCityJones]

TD. And Hakeem are swappable...but higher than SHAQ?!? :wtf:

Kobe has one more ring and longevity over the big guy.

Are we gonna argue that Shaq coulda been greater?

Kobe exceeded expectations if anything.


With that list you should have instead started a "Convince me Lebron James IS top 10 all time" thread..... because its extremly easy to do...

Sorry , but Lebron still has work to do to crack my Top ten.

Kobe had three at a young age and no one was saying he was Top ten.

[Jameerthefear]

Micheal Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Wilt
Bill Russel
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
lol ok. your opinion sucks then

[r15mohd]

Kobe has one more ring and longevity over the big guy.

Are we gonna argue that Shaq coulda been greater?

Kobe exceeded expectations if anything.

A ring and longevity isn't even close to amounting SHAQ being the most dominant big to step foot on a bball court

[HOoopCityJones]

A ring and longevity isn't even close to amounting SHAQ being the most dominant big to step foot on a bball court

Wilt and Kareem are pretty dominate bigs themselves.

[rmt]

Duncan is not over Kobe stop that nonsense.

Duncan has never even defended his title successfully.

Neither has Bird, and most people have him higher than Kobe on a top 10 list. Using not defending his title as a reason for one and not another isn't exactly consistent.

I would hazard a guess that a majority of posters would choose Duncan over Kobe to start a franchise - especially with the big man bias.

Anyway, back to the OT. Lebron's not there yet, but another ring and FMVP would put him over Kobe. Then, depending on what you value for top 10 criteria, Kobe (accomplishments) or Hakeem (skill/big man bias) might be in or out of top 10.

[r15mohd]

Wilt and Kareem are pretty dominate bigs themselves.


This doesn't help your case at all if it's your argument, guess where they're placed...higher than Kobe and SHAQ, and SHAQ is more dominant than both those players as well

[GOATbe]

It's like trying to convince someone Kwame Brown is a top 10 player. There's no point in proving something I can't.

[K Xerxes]

LOL @ Hakeem over Kobe.

It is entirely reasonable for someone to place Hakeem over Kobe. Kobe has the career accomplishments, but if we're looking at it from a purely individual basis, Hakeem had more impact on the court. Edge to Kobe on scoring and better playmaking, but Hakeem was far superior defensively and rebounding.

[HOoopCityJones]

Neither has Bird, and most people have him higher than Kobe on a top 10 list. Using not defending his title as a reason for one and not another isn't exactly consistent.

I would hazard a guess that a majority of posters would choose Duncan over Kobe to start a franchise - especially with the big man bias.

Anyway, back to the OT. Lebron's not there yet, but another ring and FMVP would put him over Kobe. Then, depending on what you value for top 10 criteria, Kobe (accomplishments) or Hakeem (skill/big man bias) might be in or out of top 10.

I give Bird the nod over Kobe out of respect and nothing more , but I feel like the people I put over Shaq maximized their potential, if not surpassed it in someways.

[T_L_P]

Duncan is not over Kobe stop that nonsense.

Duncan has never even defended his title successfully.

What sort of stupid criteria is that? :roll:

Give Duncan Shaq and I'm sure he would have.

Duncan's 4 rings as the best player > Kobe's 2
2002-03 Duncan is superior to any version of Kobe

Oh, and you think the 2010 Lakers were less stacked than the 2003 Spurs. Your opinion <

[Heavincent]

lol ok. your opinion sucks then

And yours doesn't?

[HOoopCityJones]

What sort of stupid criteria is that? :roll:

Give Duncan Shaq and I'm sure he would have.

Duncan's 4 rings as the best player > Kobe's 2
2002-03 Duncan is superior to any version of Kobe

Oh, and you think the 2010 Lakers were less stacked than the 2003 Spurs. Your opinion <

:biggums:

2010 roster is stacked?

[Cold soul]

Kobe is in top 10.

[Jameerthefear]

Kobe is in top 10.
We have proven already that he isn't.

[T_L_P]

:biggums:

2010 roster is stacked?

Don't twist my words.

You said the 2003 Spurs minus Duncan are better than the 2010 Lakers minus Kobe, which is perhaps the most absurd thing I've ever read.

Duncan's 2003 run is legendary because he took a mediocre cast to glory. I've yet to see one person call that 2010 Lakers squad anything near mediocre.

Oh, and if your 2nd best player averages 20/11/4/2, then yes, you could say that team was stacked.

"No superstar has done more to drag an undermanned team to the title."

[Mr. Jabbar]

lettuce bee cereal here, once you take out wilt and russell cause that era needs its own ranking we have kobe in the top 5.

http://honeybadgerwebassets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Lettuce-be-cereal2.png

[Quizno]

With that list you should have instead started a "Convince me Lebron James IS top 10 all time" thread..... because its extremly easy to do...
sorry, but winning two rings on the most stacked team in modern history after joining up with a fellow top 3 player along with a top 5 all star power forward in a joke conference doesn't make lebron top 10

kobe's 2 rings without shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lebron's 2 rings

[Cold soul]

We have proven already that he isn't.

Nope, sorry. There are more legit arguments he is in rather than not.

[Jameerthefear]

Nope, sorry. There are more legit arguments he is in rather than not.
Not really. Kobe's impact does not equate to anyone else in the top 10. He's an overrated chucker, sorry!

[red1]

kobe is top 10 but he will be bumped out by lbj after this season if he wins

[Marlo_Stanfield]

because hes an overrated high volume chucker who scores inefficently and barely impacts the outcome of a basketball game:applause:

[Jameerthefear]

kobe is top 10 but he will be bumped out by lbj after this season if he wins
Accolades are important, but I mean... we both can see using stats and our eyes the Lebron is the better player... even if he doesn't win another ring.

[Illuminati]

lettuce bee cereal here, once you take out wilt and russell cause that era needs its own ranking we have kobe in the top 5.

http://honeybadgerwebassets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Lettuce-be-cereal2.png

If Kobe is in the top 5 that means LeBron is top 4.

[HOoopCityJones]

I find it funny how you guys take so much away from Kobe for winning his first three with Shaq , but scoff at Lebron's superteam shite.

[Mr. Jabbar]

we both can see using stats and our eyes the Lebron is the better player

hold it right there stan, youre reaching now

[Mr. Jabbar]

If Kobe is in the top 5 that means LeBron is top 4.

not rlly , in fact, with wilt and russell out he still doesnt crack the top 15 :roll:

[HOoopCityJones]

Who seriously believes this prime Lebron could beat prime Kobe in one on one.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Who seriously believes this prime Lebron could beat prime Kobe in one on one.

no one in their right mind

[Illuminati]

not rlly , in fact, with wilt and russell out he still doesnt crack the top 15 :roll:

When trolling goes wrong. Prime Kobe w/ stacked Lakers couldn't even beat 23 year old LeBron w/ scrub ass Cavs.

:oldlol:

[red1]

Accolades are important, but I mean... we both can see using stats and our eyes the Lebron is the better player... even if he doesn't win another ring.
yeah the eye test favors the more productive and dominant player in this case

[Mr. Jabbar]

When trolling goes wrong. Prime Kobe w/ stacked Lakers couldn't even beat 23 year old LeBron w/ scrub ass Cavs.

:oldlol:


retired kobe shut down prime bran in the grandest stage, the asg

i rest my case.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

I find it funny how you guys take so much away from Kobe for winning his first three with Shaq , but scoff at Lebron's superteam shite.
lebron NEVER had a superteam kobetard.
Wade and Bosh averaging 27 points in the playoffs...TOGETHER is superteam lol.
Dat help:bowdown:

[Heavincent]

Not really. Kobe's impact does not equate to anyone else in the top 10. He's an overrated chucker, sorry!

Aren't you like 14? So you were 10 when Kobe was in the last year of his prime :oldlol:

[Cold soul]

Not really. Kobe's impact does not equate to anyone else in the top 10. He's an overrated chucker, sorry!

Go troll someone else. Aren't you only like 12 years old? How would you even know about past greats when you weren't even born. :no:

[Illuminati]

retired kobe shut down prime bran in the grandest stage, the asg

i rest my case.

Can you elaborate on shut down? If by body checking him you mean shut down then ya, I agree.

[Mr. Jabbar]

ok bran stans are getting ethered left and right here, those asterisks dont work as proof of greatness u guys gotta face the facts. i give yall a few more posts till you start showcasing the xmas mvp award, by then, your souls will belong to kobe

[HOoopCityJones]

lebron NEVER had a superteam kobetard.
Wade and Bosh averaging 27 points in the playoffs...TOGETHER is superteam lol.
Dat help:bowdown:

But each can go off for 30 when it counts, like when your man crush is pitching tents in the corner.

Wade has carried this team on some of it's if not most important nights while Lebron stuffs the stats and claims the glory.

[Cold soul]

Aren't you like 14? So you were 10 when Kobe was in the last year of his prime :oldlol:

Just ignore the anime loving moron. It ain't worth the time or effort.

[Jameerthefear]

Aren't you like 14? So you were 10 when Kobe was in the last year of his prime :oldlol:


Go troll someone else. Aren't you only like 12 years old? How would you know about past greats when you weren't even born. :no:
Videos exist people. I've seen most of Kobe's career anyways. Kobe isn't top 10.

[Mr. Jabbar]

I've seen most of Kobe's career anyways. Kobe isn't top 10.

ive seen all of your posts and you are always wrong doe, id be worried if you actually said kobe is top 10

[HOoopCityJones]

Don't twist my words.

You said the 2003 Spurs minus Duncan are better than the 2010 Lakers minus Kobe, which is perhaps the most absurd thing I've ever read.

Duncan's 2003 run is legendary because he took a mediocre cast to glory. I've yet to see one person call that 2010 Lakers squad anything near mediocre.

Oh, and if your 2nd best player averages 20/11/4/2, then yes, you could say that team was stacked.

"No superstar has done more to drag an undermanned team to the title."


2003 squad is a Gregg Pop oiled machine > Gasol & friends

[Heavincent]

Most people who watch anime have dumb opinions...

Little kids that watch anime have even dumber opinions.

[iamgine]

I wanna hear what the arguments are that put him outside the top ten greatest to ever play.
I don't think you do.

[HOoopCityJones]

You gonna say something or what Motorcycle Boy?

[T_L_P]

2003 squad is a Gregg Pop oiled machine > Gasol & friends

Yep, like I thought, all conjecture, nothing real to back it up.

How well did that system work when Duncan missed the 2000 Playoffs? Oh yeah, we got bumped in the First Round by the Suns :oldlol:

Show me some credible proof (some statistics, even an article) that clearly states the 2010 Lakers were a mediocre squad (exactly what they called the 2003 Spurs) and maybe I'll believe you.

And you originally thought the 2003 squad had Robert Horry, so I know you're just trolling

[Cold soul]

Videos exist people. I've seen most of Kobe's career anyways. Kobe isn't top 10.

Yeah, I sure believe you on that. Watching videos of players in past is munch different than watching them while they are still currently playing. I am sorry to inform you kid, but nobody cares about your dumb biased opinion.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Can you elaborate on shut down? If by body checking him you mean shut down then ya, I agree.
one time he sneaked up from behind and got a coward block and the other time he CLEARLY fouled him as everyone can see if lookin at the replay.
yeah totally shut down on THE BIGGEST STAGE :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

But each can go off for 30 when it counts, like when your man crush is pitching tents in the corner.

Wade has carried this team on some of it's if not most important nights while Lebron stuffs the stats and claims the glory.:roll: :roll: :roll:
okay u sir are a retard. i dont argue with retards. our conversation ends right here

[Mr. Jabbar]

got a coward block


lmao look at this guy :lol


this is a meltdown right here, kobe asg shutting bran has triggered multiple meltdowns starting with da lion essay

[Y2ktors]

I wanna hear what the arguments are that put him outside the top ten greatest to ever play.

He's #8 on my list.

[Jameerthefear]

Yeah, I sure believe you on that. Watching videos of players in past is munch different than watching them while they are still currently playing. I am sorry to inform you kid, but nobody cares about your dumb biased opinion.
Most agree. Kobe isn't top 10. Lebron has surpassed him. Get mad.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

lmao look at this guy :lol


this is a meltdown right here, kobe asg shutting bran has triggered multiple meltdowns starting with da lion essay
kobes only good moment against bron was from behind in an asq and a foul on the second block.
all while lebron is owning dat ass 13-6:lol :lol

[Mr. Jabbar]

kobes only good moment against bron was from behind in an asq and a foul on the second block.
all while lebron is owning dat ass 13-6:lol :lol

they've faced each other with one on the decline and one on his prime, still kobe owned his soul enough to pop a lion essay

[Mr. Jabbar]

Most agree. Kobe isn't top 10. Lebron has surpassed him. Get mad.

right here, the least respected opinion when it comes to basketball you'll find in this forum. should stick to anime

[secund2nun]

because hes an overrated high volume chucker who scores inefficently and barely impacts the outcome of a basketball game:applause:

+1 truth

First round loser as top 10 GOAT? :roll:

[boozehound]

convince me he is. Worst efficiency of any top 10 scorer, couldnt win without an allstar big, etc.

[Cold soul]

Most agree. Kobe isn't top 10. Lebron has surpassed him. Get mad.

Is that why most analyst, former coaches/GM, and players say Kobe is. Even one of biggest Kobe haters on planet earth Bill Simmons who's known as die hard Celtics fan says Kobe top ten.http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXawardsXXsimmons_pyramid.html

http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/GetTFO.gif

[Jameerthefear]

convince me he is. Worst efficiency of any top 10 scorer, couldnt win without an allstar big, etc.
Kobe stans just can't accept this.

[rmt]

2003 squad is a Gregg Pop oiled machine > Gasol & friends

2003 Spurs Playoffs

Parker 14.7 pts / 3.5 asst 40.3%FG 2nd year player
SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 reb / 2.7 asst 41.4% 2nd year player
Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 reb / 2.9 asst 38.6% rookie
Rose 9.3 pts / 5.8 reb 41.9%
DRob 7.8 pts / 6.6 reb / 1.3 blk 54.2%

Popovich 1 championship

2010 Lakers Playoffs

Gasol 19.6 pts / 11.1 reb / 3.4 asst / 2.1 blks 53.9%FG
MWP 11.2 pts / 4.0 reb / 2.1 asst / 1.5 blks 39.8%
Fisher 10.3 pts / 2.8 asst 44.8%
Odom 9.7 pts / 8.6 reb / 2 asst 46.9%
Bynum 8.6 pts / 6.9 reb / 1.6 blks 53.7%

Phil Jackson 10 championships

[Jameerthefear]

2003 Spurs Playoffs

Parker 14.7 pts / 3.5 asst 40.3%FG 2nd year player
SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 reb / 2.7 asst 41.4% 2nd year player
Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 reb / 2.9 asst 38.6% rookie
Rose 9.3 pts / 5.8 reb 41.9%
DRob 7.8 pts / 6.6 reb / 1.3 blk 54.2%

Popovich 1 championship

2010 Lakers Playoffs

Gasol 19.6 pts / 11.1 reb / 3.4 asst / 2.1 blks 53.9%FG
MWP 11.2 pts / 4.0 reb / 2.1 asst / 1.5 blks 39.8%
Fisher 10.3 pts / 2.8 asst 44.8%
Odom 9.7 pts / 8.6 reb / 2 asst 46.9%
Bynum 8.6 pts / 6.9 reb / 1.6 blks 53.7%

Phil Jackson 10 championships
damn! :roll:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Jameer is the lebron stan in a nutshell, hes basically too young to know anything about life, let alone basketball, and drops any team he was rooting for w/e reason to jump on the bandwagon of whatever espn tells you is the next big thing (in this case bran). im giving him a few more months at most till he officially wears a durant avy.

in some way, it makes you glad these kind of guys have nothing to do with kobe or the lakers

[Heavincent]

convince me he is. Worst efficiency of any top 10 scorer, couldnt win without an allstar big, etc.

Jordan couldn't win without Pippen
Shaq couldn't without all time great SG
Kareem couldn't win without all time great PG
Magic couldn't win without HOF cast around him
Lebron couldn't win without two all stars
Russel couldn't win without HOF cast
Wilt couldn't win without HOF cast

etc.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Jordan couldn't win without Pippen
Shaq couldn't without all time great SG
Kareem couldn't win without all time great PG
Magic couldn't win without HOF cast around him
Lebron couldn't win without two all stars
Russel couldn't win without HOF cast
Wilt couldn't win without HOF cast

etc.

he was trollin' tho, no need for dat ether

[Jameerthefear]

Jameer is the lebron stan in a nutshell, hes basically too young to know anything about life, let alone basketball, and drops any team he was rooting for w/e reason to jump on the bandwagon of whatever espn tells you is the next big thing (in this case bran). im giving him a few more months at most till he officially wears a durant avy.

in some way, it makes you glad these kind of guys have nothing to do with kobe or the lakers
Lebron and Durant >>> Kobe
Still yet to prove why Kobe IS a top 10 player.

[Cold soul]

Kobe stans just can't accept this.

You're bad at trolling for being a Lebron stan. :oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Lebron and Durant >>> Kobe
Still yet to prove why Kobe IS a top 10 player.

he isnt, he is top 5 doe

now prove me bran is top 15 (dont use 2 *'s as proof and keep in mind 2011)

[Cold soul]

Lebron and Durant >>> Kobe
Still yet to prove why Kobe IS a top 10 player.

Like this?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history#photo-title=Kobe+Bryant+%25281996-present%2529&photo=30219332

http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXawardsXXslam_500_greatest.html

http://www.nba.com/magic/#/gallery/cohen-8ball_ranking-top-20-players-nba-history_062413

Exposed. You have zero credibility here. Run along now, kid!

[Nevaeh]

Jordan couldn't win without Pippen
Shaq couldn't without all time great SG
Kareem couldn't win without all time great PG
Magic couldn't win without HOF cast around him
Lebron couldn't win without two all stars
Russel couldn't win without HOF cast
Wilt couldn't win without HOF cast

etc.

I think you left out "Kobe couldn't win without Fisher" also, if you're gonna go that route.

[Jameerthefear]

Like this?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history#photo-title=Kobe+Bryant+%25281996-present%2529&photo=30219332

http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXawardsXXslam_500_greatest.html

http://www.nba.com/magic/#/gallery/cohen-8ball_ranking-top-20-players-nba-history_062413

Exposed. You have zero credibility here. Run along now, kid!
this nikka just posted other people saying kobe is top 10 as proof that kobe is top 10 :roll:

[Heavincent]

I think you left out "Kobe couldn't win without Fisher" also, if you're gonna go that route.

What route? The rational route of "nobody ever won without a great supporting cast"?

[Cold soul]

this nikka just posted other people saying kobe is top 10 as proof that kobe is top 10 :roll:

credible sources >>>> your stupid biased opinion. Point blank you're an idiot. Stop embarrassing yourself you look more foolish post by post. Nobody takes you seriously here.

[Jameerthefear]

credible sources >>>> your stupid biased opinion. Point blank you're an idiot. Stop embarrassing yourself you look foolish post by post. Nobody takes you serious here.
you suck and your opinions suck. ignore listed.

[Cold soul]

you suck and your opinions suck. ignore listed.

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131107180646/halofanon/images/6/6c/2304795-good_good_let_the_butthurt_flow_through_you_1.jpg

[Mr. Jabbar]

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131107180646/halofanon/images/6/6c/2304795-good_good_let_the_butthurt_flow_through_you_1.jpg

:oldlol:

[JBrizzy]

Don't you understand??

It's all SUBJECTIVE.

It's like saying convince me that the Mona Lisa is not the greatest painting of all time. Depends on the way you look at it.

There's no official answer and there's no one method to determine this stuff.

If you love Kobe then good for you.

[bballnoob1192]

He had 3 seasons without a loaded team..all in his prime and could not even win a playoff series. He ended up going missed playoffs, 2 first round losses, and the best he could muster up was a 7th seed. Plus in his 7 NBA finals appearances he has never had a great finals. His playoff performance drops and is underwhelming...even his regular season performances are overrated. He is not top 10. Even a player like Ewing is far superior than Kobe ever was.

xcept he played in the west. that alone is harder than anything you do playing in the east during that time, and still going on now. not to bring up lebron but if lebron was playing in the west with that team hes not going anywhere.

[Audio One]

“What he has accomplished with this team, I don’t think there’s any question in my mind at this point in time – because of him being with this team for his whole career – that he has been the greatest Laker player.”

--Jerry West

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyhX2YMgNvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfUPkz7ALHw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3M0MrYpObs


“Well, probably Kobe, because of the fact that … well, of course he wouldn’t have been shooting as much as he does now … but his desire to win, his dedication, to always get better, uh, and he’s just, he’s just tough. He’s just a tough cat.”

“But, if you want to have fun, like I did with Bill Walton, play with LeBron. It would have probably been more fun to play with LeBron, but if you want to win and win and win, it’s Kobe. Not that LeBron’s not a winner, just that [Kobe's] mindset is to go into every practice, every game, to get better.”
--Larry Bird

All of these folks pretty much admitting that Bean's the GOAT Laker. If you know Earvin and Shaquille any bit, you know that they have egos and pride as much as any man, so if they're admitting it, with the stats, accolades, rings, and longevity to back it up, then the answer becomes obvious. He's in the discussion as possibly the 3rd or so best scorer with the likes of Chamberlain, Mike, and Alcindor. Bird and Magic never have, nor ever will be on that level, while being worlds better on the defense end than Bird, O'Neal and Magic. After Jordan and Havlicek, you won't find a better two way perimeter player than Kobe Bryant :cheers:

Kobe's obviously better than Duncan; there's no debate to be had. Kobe in his fifth year was already outscoring O'Neal at his apex in the playoffs with less minutes, and was playing the best combo of perimeter defense and offense since a peak Jordan. Kobe was the consensus best player in the league from 06-09, and arguably '10. Duncan's at best only been the best player in the league for 1 season; a past prime Shaq turned the Saints into the Patriots, and Nash and the so-called "cancer" Iverson received more first place votes in '05. During his apex, he was eclipsed by a peak shaq and a peak Garnett, players he's supposedly "better" than. And for those that continue to say Duncan won with so little help, consider this:


Tony Parker wasn't quite in his prime during this time, but he had his fair share of big games that run. 29 points in game 3 vs Phoenix, 21 in game 5 vs the Lakers and 27 in game 6 vs the Lakers, back to back games of 29 points and 25 points vs Dallas and back to back games of 21 and 26 points vs the Nets.



Manu Ginobili had a 21 point game off the bench that run and 13 double digit scoring games off the bench during the playoffs.


"The Spurs, upgraded defensively and athletically around Tim Duncan, who scored 28 points tonight, got an especially strong performance from Manu Ginobili, the versatile shooting guard from Argentina. His long-range shooting and slashing drives were worth 15 points, but the play that might affect the series most occurred early in the fourth quarter, when Ginobili stripped Brian Shaw and accelerated upcourt". http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/06/sp...the-spurs.html

[Quote]"Ignited by the Frenchman Parker and Argentina's Manu Ginobili, Monsieur Speed and Se

[IMObjective]

Not really. Kobe's impact does not equate to anyone else in the top 10. He's an overrated chucker, sorry!

I swear, before the whole Kobe vs Dwight debacle this little ***** had no problem with Kobe. All of a sudden he's oldskoolball/savagemode/ispin69/6 for 24/and countless other blind haters.

you can tell he has a little hentai crush on Dwight which is weird as ****, since everyone else in his city probably hates Dwight.

[KobesFinger]

I wanna hear what the arguments are that puts OP outside the top ten greatest f@gots to ever lurk ISH.

RocketsGreatness has more than 10 alts so :confusedshrug:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Kobe Bryant is good and borderline great but never top 10. to much high volume chucking while playing bad defense and barely impacting Lakers win percentages:facepalm :coleman:

[Akrazotile]

I wanna hear what the arguments are that puts OP outside the top ten greatest f@gots to ever lurk ISH.


Hah!

[ImKobe]

Shaq and Pau carried Kobe to all of his titles, without a dominant big man Kobe would be a career loser like T-Mac.

[ImKobe]

Kobe Bryant is good and borderline great but never top 10. to much high volume chucking while playing bad defense and barely impacting Lakers win percentages:facepalm :coleman:

This. Kobe is not even as good as Iverson, he's just a worthless chucker with no passing skills and he was never good at playing defense, he's not even top 50 all-time.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

This. Kobe is not even as good as Iverson, he's just a worthless chucker with no passing skills and he was never good at playing defense, he's not even top 50 all-time.
hes better than iverson career wise but peak iverson> peak Bean

[moe94]

hes better than iverson career wise but peak iverson> peak Bean

Are you brain dead?

You can't even use the "hurrdurr he carried scrubs to a Finals" argument here, either.

There is absolutely no argument to be had.

[fandarko]

He is not top 10. Even a player like Ewing is far superior than Kobe ever was.

I am sure you're not serious

[ralph_i_el]

Kobe is an all time great and a HoF lock.

That being said, he got so unbelievably lucky with the way his career played out. He landed in LA where he'd get the most exposure and fame. The Lakers were always going to spend big money and attract free agents. He had Shaq who was undeniably a bigger part of multiple of the Laker's championship runs. He never suffered a serious career altering injury. He had the greatest coach of all time.

When people get super wrapped up in the "cult of kobe" stuff it makes the rest of us pause because when you look at it without bias, there are plenty of guys who were on Kobe's level when they stepped on the court. Almost all of those guys are current or future hall of famers too.

I'm not going to list a whole bunch of guys so we can fight and nit-pick over them. Just think, aren't there even a few guys that we would consider greater than Kobe if they had all the breaks he did? Plenty of perimeter players you could have stuck with Shaq and had the best team in the league?

Not enough domination to make my top 10 all time. Definitely in the top 10 for players I was old enough to watch and remember.

[IMObjective]

As an la native of course I make sure Kobe's in my top ten, along with Shaq, but I don't hold it against people who don't (except idiots like ispin69, savagemode, 6 for 24, second2nun, those people who have a weird obsession with hating on the guy).

I've always wanted to ask laker fans on this board, did you ever get mad at Kobe while watching him play? I know there's been countless times when I went 'NOOO!!! don't shoot that! ' though they did go in a surprising number of times. That's gonna be his legacy, making shots that no one had any business even taking. (Yeah haters, I wish he focused less on self-glory and more on efficiency too.) And the incredible 2006 season of course.

[HOoopCityJones]

As an la native of course I make sure Kobe's in my top ten, along with Shaq, but I don't hold it against people who don't (except idiots like ispin69, savagemode, 6 for 24, second2nun, those people who have a weird obsession with hating on the guy).

I've always wanted to ask laker fans on this board, did you ever get mad at Kobe while watching him play? I know there's been countless times when I went 'NOOO!!! don't shoot that! ' though they did go in a surprising number of times. That's gonna be his legacy, making shots that no one had any business even taking. (Yeah haters, I wish he focused less on self-glory and more on efficiency too.) And the incredible 2006 season of course.

Yup. Comes with the territory of being a Laker fan.

But there are way more times when he amazes me, like last year vs Toronto.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Kobe is top 15-20 and that is generous. and theres absolutely no shame in being a top 20 player:applause:

[moe94]

Kobe is an all time great and a HoF lock.

That being said, he got so unbelievably lucky with the way his career played out. He landed in LA where he'd get the most exposure and fame. The Lakers were always going to spend big money and attract free agents. He had Shaq who was undeniably a bigger part of multiple of the Laker's championship runs. He never suffered a serious career altering injury. He had the greatest coach of all time.

When people get super wrapped up in the "cult of kobe" stuff it makes the rest of us pause because when you look at it without bias, there are plenty of guys who were on Kobe's level when they stepped on the court. Almost all of those guys are current or future hall of famers too.

I'm not going to list a whole bunch of guys so we can fight and nit-pick over them. Just think, aren't there even a few guys that we would consider greater than Kobe if they had all the breaks he did? Plenty of perimeter players you could have stuck with Shaq and had the best team in the league?

Not enough domination to make my top 10 all time. Definitely in the top 10 for players I was old enough to watch and remember.


I like what you're saying but consider the idea that Kobe did the absolute best he ever could with what he was born with. It's not even crazy to suggest that Kobe isn't even in the top 20 most athletic guards to come into the league since 96, but he is the one with the greatest resume, skill-set and desire to be the best. You can never downplay that.

[freshperry]

the only way to "convince" is 1. the person is a kobe-hater 2. HUGE fan of 10 other great players

[ralph_i_el]

I like what you're saying but consider the idea that Kobe did the absolute best he ever could with what he was born with. It's not even crazy to suggest that Kobe isn't even in the top 20 most athletic guards to come into the league since 96, but he is the one with the greatest resume, skill-set and desire to be the best. You can never downplay that.

all true. Props

[LAZERUSS]

Top-8 are locked up...

Magic, MJ, Russell, and Wilt and in no particular order.

KAJ

Shaq and Duncan. Go with Shaq for peak, and Duncan for extended prime.

Lebron (and climbing)


After that...

Dog-fight for 9-10 spots between Kobe, Hakeem, Moses, Dr. J, and Oscar.

Personally...Kobe and Moses.

[TheMarkMadsen]

how is somebody going to have an opinion on the GOAT players in basketball history when they graduated elementary school within the past 5 years :confusedshrug:

[T_L_P]

Kobe's obviously better than Duncan; there's no debate to be had. Kobe in his fifth year was already outscoring O'Neal at his apex in the playoffs with less minutes, and was playing the best combo of perimeter defense and offense since a peak Jordan. Kobe was the consensus best player in the league from 06-09, and arguably '10. Duncan's at best only been the best player in the league for 1 season; a past prime Shaq turned the Saints into the Patriots, and Nash and the so-called "cancer" Iverson received more first place votes in '05. During his apex, he was eclipsed by a peak shaq and a peak Garnett, players he's supposedly "better" than.

Stopped taking you seriously when you posted a video of LeBron dunking on Duncan to prove his defense is comparable to Kobe's :roll:
Have you forgotten when Kobe's coach and mentor labelled him a liability?

Or the fact that 75% of your argument is just you bashing a past-his-prime player.

Kobe averages around 3.5 more points per game in the Playoffs than Duncan, and he's a Shooting Guard :facepalm

It's obvious from reading your posts that all you care about is scoring. Oh, and games where 'double digit scoring' means he was outplayed :facepalm

The reason Kobe gets roasted for failing offensively is because that's his job, to score without taking too many shots. When he can't do that ('04, '08, Game 7 of '10), of course he's going to get called out.

[Element]

Kobe averages around 3.5 more points per game in the Playoffs than Duncan, and he's a Shooting Guard :facepalm


Kobe came in as a HS kid

Prime for prime

01-10 Kobe: 28.8 ppg @ 55 TS%
99-08 Duncan: 23 ppg @ 55 TS%

even if you exclude 08 for Duncan

23.8 ppg @ 56 TS%

And Kobe did that playing with Shaq. Post-Shaq

29.8 ppg @ 57 TS%

absolutely not comparable at all.

[Jameerthefear]

Kobe came in as a HS kid

Prime for prime

01-10 Kobe: 28.8 ppg @ 55 TS%
99-08 Duncan: 23 ppg @ 55 TS%

even if you exclude 08 for Duncan

23.8 ppg @ 56 TS%

And Kobe did that playing with Shaq. Post-Shaq

29.8 ppg @ 57 TS%

absolutely not comparable at all.
Duncan is a better playoff performer than Kobe.

[ProfessorMurder]

Top-8 are locked up...

Magic, MJ, Russell, and Wilt and in no particular order.

KAJ

Shaq and Duncan. Go with Shaq for peak, and Duncan for extended prime.

Lebron (and climbing)


After that...

Dog-fight for 9-10 spots between Kobe, Hakeem, Moses, Dr. J, and Oscar.

Personally...Kobe and Moses.

:roll: Bird isn't in your top 13?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Duncan is a better playoff performer than Kobe.


you've seen neither in their primes or before they turned 30.. qft

[secund2nun]

xcept he played in the west. that alone is harder than anything you do playing in the east during that time, and still going on now. not to bring up lebron but if lebron was playing in the west with that team hes not going anywhere.

Excuses. 3 seasons...all in his prime...0 playoff series victories, 2 7th seeds, 1 missed playoffs and in the seasons they won titles with loaded teams Kobe's performances are very overrated. In 7 nba finals he has 0 great finals performances and a bunch of disappointing ones.

Put prime Lebron on that team and they win multiple playoff series and are a top 3 seed. Remember Cleveland Lebron had a better record against the West in a couple of those seasons.

Kobe is a fraud.

[T_L_P]

Kobe came in as a HS kid

Prime for prime

01-10 Kobe: 28.8 ppg @ 55 TS%
99-08 Duncan: 23 ppg @ 55 TS%

even if you exclude 08 for Duncan

23.8 ppg @ 56 TS%

And Kobe did that playing with Shaq. Post-Shaq

29.8 ppg @ 57 TS%

absolutely not comparable at all.

So we talk about Kobe's career totals but when it comes to averages his restricted minutes days cannot be factored? Okay . . .

[secund2nun]

I am sure you're not serious

I am serious. Kobe is a fraud and a 7th seed first round loser.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I am serious. Kobe is a fraud and a 7th seed first round loser.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a55/omgacotf/1234.gif

+1

[CNNonceAgain]

So we talk about Kobe's career totals but when it comes to averages his restricted minutes days cannot be factored? Okay . . .

cherry pickers. why are you surprised?

[secund2nun]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a55/omgacotf/1234.gif

+1

Riding the coattails of dominant front courts. Without those dominant front courts he is exposed for the 7th seed first round loser he is. He has never had a great nba finals in his 7 nba finals appearances and should be thankful the media gave the 6/24 first round loser the finals MVP over Gasol, who deserved it in both 09 and 10.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Riding the coattails of dominant front courts. Without those dominant front courts he is exposed for the 7th seed first round loser he is. He has never had a great nba finals in his 7 nba finals appearances and should be thankful the media gave the 6/24 first round loser the finals MVP over Gasol, who deserved it in both 09 and 10.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323074

Where's Bron?


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321509

Where's Bron?

[Heavincent]

Riding the coattails of dominant front courts. Without those dominant front courts he is exposed for the 7th seed first round loser he is. He has never had a great nba finals in his 7 nba finals appearances and should be thankful the media gave the 6/24 first round loser the finals MVP over Gasol, who deserved it in both 09 and 10.

Why do people continue to reply to this retard?

[chosen_one6]

He's top 10, barely.

He won't be there for more than a few years though. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[MVBallin2K]

Oh people. If Kobe was carried by Shaq and Gasol for his rings then you can't credit Lebron for his. I don't care what you say, Lebron was bailed out by Ray Allen and has relied on two all star teammates at times to keep him going. Before anyone says anything for Bosh, the Heat were on the brink of elimination from the Playoffs until he came back.

You can't say Kobe has never lead a team by himself and the say that Lebron deserves the credit for doing so. Cleveland never won a chip either lead by just Lebron. How did this even COME to Lebron vs. Kobe again? The question is if Kobe is top ten, not if Kobe or Lebron is better. I believe Kobe to be top 10 but like someone said, it's all subjective. I expect a little more from all of you, except Jameer because I don't expect a near pre teen to understand a man's game and actual logic.

[zoom17]

Oh people. If Kobe was carried by Shaq and Gasol for his rings then you can't credit Lebron for his. I don't care what you say, Lebron was bailed out by Ray Allen and has relied on two all star teammates at times to keep him going. Before anyone says anything for Bosh, the Heat were on the brink of elimination from the Playoffs until he came back.

You can't say Kobe has never lead a team by himself and the say that Lebron deserves the credit for doing so. Cleveland never won a chip either lead by just Lebron. How did this even COME to Lebron vs. Kobe again? The question is if Kobe is top ten, not if Kobe or Lebron is better. I believe Kobe to be top 10 but like someone said, it's all subjective. I expect a little more from all of you, except Jameer because I don't expect a near pre teen to understand a man's game and actual logic.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QBwUuiehwBQ/T4IExllkxQI/AAAAAAAAA5Y/Rrxy4fkHypc/s1600/george-bush-gif.gif

[Deuce Bigalow]

Riding the coattails of dominant front courts. Without those dominant front courts he is exposed for the 7th seed first round loser he is. He has never had a great nba finals in his 7 nba finals appearances and should be thankful the media gave the 6/24 first round loser the finals MVP over Gasol, who deserved it in both 09 and 10.
25/6/5/2/1 on 45/35/78 playoff average for his first 3 rings
30/6/6/2/1 on 46/36/86 playoff average for his last 2 rings

Damn he was riding them coattails.

[zoom17]

25/6/5/2/1 on 45/35/78 playoff average for his first 3 rings
30/6/6/2/1 on 46/36/86 playoff average for his last 2 rings

Damn he was riding them coattails.

Only 2fmvps Lebron going to surpass that this year:oldlol:

[funnystuff]

In terms of impact on the court, Kobe doesn't even crack the top 25.

[Cold soul]

Only 2fmvps Lebron going to surpass that this year:oldlol:

As a hardcore Broncos fan myself since the 90's. You disappoint me. :facepalm

[zoom17]

As a hardcore Broncos fan myself since the 90's. You disappoint me. :facepalm

not a broncos fan Colts fan rooting for manning.

[Cold soul]

not a broncos fan Colts fan Rooting for manning.

Oh lol. I just figured you were one judging by your AV.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Oh lol. I just figured you were one judging by your AV.


he's a Lebron fan don't be surprised that he's dick riding the front runners

[Deuce Bigalow]

Only 2fmvps Lebron going to surpass that this year:oldlol:
Let's use context my friend. Lebron had won 0 championships and beat only one 50-win team in the playoffs before joining two allstars in Miami. His legacy is not greater than certain greats like Rick Barry, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Bob Pettit, George Mikan. Now if you look at just accolades without context then you would think Lebron is ahead of those guys but no he isn't. Pettit stayed with Atlanta all his career and was only one of two players (Wilt) to knock off the Boston Celtics dynasty and get a title. Jerry West, arguably the second greatest playoff performer and finals performer in history was on the Lakers his entire career, no teaming up in his career, went to 9 NBA finals and had series like 38/5/7 in '69. Barry who has the highest finals ppg ever and a 40 ppg finals series which his team lost later on to win a title with a bunch of nobody, no teaming up, and he also won an ABA title. Baylor who went to 7 NBA finals and has the record for most points in a finals game with 61 in a series where he averaged over 40 ppg, never teamed up and is a greater player than Lebron. Mikan won 5 titles in 6 years and another two titles in another league before he came to the NBA. Then there is a player like Julius Erving, has Lebron surpassed him? I don't know. The fact remains is that Lebron never had a great legacy before teaming up. Imagine if Bob Pettit joined West and Baylor in LA? Or if Wilt joined Pettit in Atlanta? I could go on and on with these scenarios of other greats teaming up which would result in rings and finals mvps, but are those even that valuable when you look at the context of how they were achieved?

[zoom17]

he's a Lebron fan don't be surprised that he's dick riding the front runners

:facepalm I am rooting for a former colt quit getting so butt hurt.

[zoom17]

Let's use context my friend. Lebron had won 0 championships and beat only one 50-win team in the playoffs before joining two allstars in Miami. His legacy is not greater than certain greats like Rick Barry, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Bob Pettit, George Mikan. Now if you look at just accolades without context then you would think Lebron is ahead of those guys but no he isn't. Pettit stayed with Atlanta all his career and was only one of two players (Wilt) to knock off the Boston Celtics dynasty and get a title. Jerry West, arguably the second greatest playoff performer and finals performer in history was on the Lakers his entire career, no teaming up in his career, went to 9 NBA finals and had series like 38/5/7 in '69. Barry who has the highest finals ppg ever and a 40 ppg finals series which his team lost later on to win a title with a bunch of nobody, no teaming up, and he also won an ABA title. Baylor who went to 7 NBA finals and has the record for most points in a finals game with 61 in a series where he averaged over 40 ppg, never teamed up and is a greater player than Lebron. Mikan won 5 titles in 6 years and another two titles in another league before he came to the NBA. Then there is a player like Julius Erving, has Lebron surpassed him? I don't know. The fact remains is that Lebron never had a great legacy before teaming up. Imagine if Bob Pettit joined West and Baylor in LA? Or if Wilt joined Pettit in Atlanta, or if Kobe joined Duncan after Shaq left? I could go on and on with these scenarios of other greats teaming up which would result in rings and finals mvps, but are those even that valuable when you look at the context of how they were achieved?

:biggums: Lebron will get more fmvps than kobe before he retires no need to get so mad about it.

[westside_baller]

Duncan is not over Kobe stop that nonsense.

Duncan has never even defended his title successfully.

It was never kobe's title to defend. It was the lakers' title to defend. Team sport, idiot.

[zoom17]

It was never kobe's title to defend. It was the lakers' title to defend. Team sport, idiot.

:lol

[westside_baller]

Kobe has had a top 10 career resume, BUT there are at least 10 players ahead of kobe in terms of impact on a game:

wilt
russell
kareem
magic johnson
bird
jordan
hakeem
shaq
lebron
duncan

I would also take david robinson and kevin durant ahead of kobe in terms of game impact.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:biggums: Lebron will get more fmvps than kobe before he retires no need to get so mad about it.
Jerry West has at least 5 Finals that were better than Lebron could ever dream of and he only got 1 FMVP. Baylor probably scored more Finals points in 2 games in '62 than Lebron did in his entire '11 finals series and he didn't get an FMVP for it because Boston won. Lebron's 2 FMVPs are a result of teaming up with 2 allstars back in 2010. Answer this, if Lebron did not join Miami would he have a championship ring?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Elgin Baylor (zoom17 probably never heard of him) in games 4 and 5 of the 1962 NBA Finals = 99 points

Lebron's entire 2011 finals = 107 points

Pretty close Elgin...just 8 less points in 4 less games

This is the guy supposed to better because he teamed up with 2 allstars?

[rmt]

And for those that continue to say Duncan won with so little help, consider this:

Tony Parker wasn't quite in his prime during this time, but he had his fair share of big games that run. 29 points in game 3 vs Phoenix, 21 in game 5 vs the Lakers and 27 in game 6 vs the Lakers, back to back games of 29 points and 25 points vs Dallas and back to back games of 21 and 26 points vs the Nets.

Manu Ginobili had a 21 point game off the bench that run and 13 double digit scoring games off the bench during the playoffs.

In the Phoenix series, he had 5 consecutive double digit scoring games including games of 15/7 in 26 minutes, 10/14 in 29 minutes and 27/13 in 29 minutes. He also had a 25 point game in 27 minutes in game 2 vs Dallas and a double double in the closeout game 6.

Stephen Jackson opened up the playoffs with 3 consecutive 20 point games vs Phoenix and a 21 point game in the closeout game 6 and he also had back to back 20+ point games in the final 2 games of the Dallas series.

And then there's Robinson who was a good defender and rebounder, especially for a limited minutes guy. And Bruce Bowen, who was essential to the Spurs beating the Lakers.

2003 Spurs Playoffs

Parker 14.7 pts / 3.5 asst 40.3%FG
SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 reb / 2.7 asst 41.4%
Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 reb / 2.9 asst 38.6%
Rose 9.3 pts / 5.8 reb 41.9%
DRob 7.8 pts / 6.6 reb / 1.3 blk 54.2%

Popovich - 1 Championship

Do you not understand the meaning of the word AVERAGE? It means that for every high scoring game that you pull out of the hat, there is an equally low-scoring game that each of these players had. The numbers don't lie. 14.7, 12.8 and 9.4 pts on 40.3%, 41.4% and 38.6% FG for one's 2nd, 3rd and 4th options indicate a weak supporting cast. Compare that to Kobe's supporting cast:

2010 Lakers Playoffs

Gasol 19.6 pts / 11.1 reb / 3.4 asst / 2.1 blks 53.9%FG
MWP 11.2 pts / 4.0 reb / 2.1 asst / 1.5 blks 39.8%
Fisher 10.3 pts / 2.8 asst 44.8%
Odom 9.7 pts / 8.6 reb / 2 asst 46.9%
Bynum 8.6 pts / 6.9 reb / 1.6 blks 53.7%

Phil Jackson 10 championships

Duncan's done more with less than Kobe. Kobe's had the benefit of better team mates, better owner who is willing to spend lots, better city to attract free agents, better coach, more salary way in luxury territory. And if Duncan had MDE Shaq as a team mate, don't know how many championships they would have won together - certainly more than 3 - as Duncan gets along with everybody - unlike Kobe.


This past year, blew a 3-2 series lead, not scoring a single point after quarter three during the game 6 meltdown, and with him missing a point-blank shot that would've tied the game; they don't score the rest of the game. Bird, Jordan, Shaq, Earvin, Kobe, LeBron ALL would've been roasted for that in that particular context, yet Duncan gets a pass when it happened. Don't get me wrong, he's a legendary player, and a surefire top 15 all-time player, but it has to make you question his greatness, and what people expect from him if they're immediately giving him passes for that. :confusedshrug:

I guess the bar is so high for Duncan that you expect him to do better than 30 points and 17 rebounds in a NBA Finals game. How anyone can criticize a 37 year old for such a performance is beyond me. Maybe, just maybe his 37 year old body is tired after playing the most minutes (44:26) on the Spurs save the 22 year old Leonard.

Don't know what was more stressful for you - that Duncan was 28 seconds away from 5 rings and 4 FMVP or that Lebron is gaining on Kobe FAST. It's just a matter of time - another ring and FMVP, and there'll be well-documented basis for Lebron over Kobe. I suspect that the latter will bother you more since the media doesn't care about Duncan. Lebron, however, is a whole 'nother story.

[AlphaWolf24]

Hilarious....( Damn well know no one here watched Russell , Lew Alcindor and Chamberlain)

we have kids who never watched Magic , Bird or Prime MJ. ( heck most never watched prime Duncan and Shaq) Giving top 10 lists:roll:

( Heck most never watched Prime Kobe 03' - 09')


- Please...everyone save us all the BS.....just list the best players you ever watched and or followed their career.

- It makes much more sense and will lead to better discussion.



Funny part is....2 outta the 3 arguably top 5 players say Kobe is better then them.

Kobe will go down as the greatest Laker of all-time...that's most likely top 3.





deal wit it





NEXT

[Cold soul]

Kobe has had a top 10 career resume, BUT there are at least 10 players ahead of kobe in terms of impact on a game:

wilt
russell
kareem
magic johnson
bird
jordan
hakeem
shaq
lebron
duncan

I would also take david robinson and kevin durant ahead of kobe in terms of game impact.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Christian-Bale-Laughing-at-Awards-Show.gif

[SexSymbol]

Peak wise he's top 5-7.
Career resume wise he's top 5-7.
Longetivity wise he's top 3.
It's just too hard to argue against it.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Peak wise he's top 5-7.
Career resume wise he's top 5-7.
Longetivity wise he's top 3.
It's just too hard to argue against it.


resume wise is top 5 easily

top 5 in points, playoff points, 5 rings, record amount of all d selections, double digit all nba teams, etc. etc. etc. etc.

[Jameerthefear]

Hilarious....( Damn well know no one here watched Russell , Lew Alcindor and Chamberlain)

we have kids who never watched Magic , Bird or Prime MJ. ( heck most never watched prime Duncan and Shaq) Giving top 10 lists:roll:

( Heck most never watched Prime Kobe 03' - 09')


- Please...everyone save us all the BS.....just list the best players you ever watched and or followed their career.

- It makes much more sense and will lead to better discussion.



Funny part is....2 outta the 3 arguably top 5 players say Kobe is better then them.

Kobe will go down as the greatest Laker of all-time...that's most likely top 3.





deal wit it





NEXT
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Cold soul]

Peak wise he's top 5-7.
Career resume wise he's top 5-7.
Longetivity wise he's top 3.
It's just too hard to argue against it.

http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/standing-ovation.gif

[SexSymbol]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Kobe's already the greatest laker of all time
Has too many records, most championships along with Magic, but Magic doesn't have his longetivity.
Shaq and Magic have already said that Kobe's the best Laker.

[Cold soul]

:roll: :roll: :roll:


http://i.imgur.com/csMB7.gif

[SexSymbol]

resume wise is top 5 easily

top 5 in points, playoff points, 5 rings, record amount of all d selections, double digit all nba teams, etc. etc. etc. etc.
Well I don't put too much stock into all-nba or all-d selections, it's all about winning for me.
And last time I checked, nobody besides Kareem, Russell, Michael has more than Kobe in top 10. You can argue Magic being higher, that's fine. Dunno, top 7 is a given, hard to say if he's top 5, I'd have to think about it, too tired to do that now, just came into this thread to state facts

[Jameerthefear]

Kobe's already the greatest laker of all time
Has too many records, most championships along with Magic, but Magic doesn't have his longetivity.
Shaq and Magic have already said that Kobe's the best Laker.
Please. Magic, Shaq, and KAJ are all MUCH better players. He's only really the 'greatest' as you say because he has played for so long.

[SexSymbol]

Please. Magic, Shaq, and KAJ are all MUCH better players. He's only really the 'greatest' as you say because he has played for so long.
They're not much better players.
Kobe's peak is better than Magic's.
KAJ is better, yeah.
Shaq is arguable, his peak is better, but his career resume isn't up there with Kobe's. One more ring don't lie.

[T_L_P]

So being the greatest Laker of all-time (he's not) makes you top 3-5? :roll:

Also, top 5 peak? Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Kareem, Hakeem, LeBron, Moaes, Magic, Bird, arguably Garnett (depending on how long you class a peak) all had better peaks, and then there's the Wilts, the Oscars, the Robinsons, the Ewings, etc etc.

If Kobe really had a top 5 peak, he sure as hell would have taken his team to a higher seed than the 7th, no matter how shitty his team(s) were.

[houston]

He top 5 of all-time

[Jameerthefear]

They're not much better players.
Kobe's peak is better than Magic's.
KAJ is better, yeah.
Shaq is arguable, his peak is better, but his career resume isn't up there with Kobe's. One more ring don't lie.
http://replygif.net/i/1049.gif
whole post is just lol

[SexSymbol]

So being the greatest Laker of all-time (he's not) makes you top 3-5? :roll:

Also, top 5 peak? Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Kareem, Hakeem, LeBron, Moaes, Magic, Bird, arguably Garnett (depending on how long you class a peak) all had better peaks, and then there's the Wilts, the Oscars, the Robinsons, the Ewings, etc etc.

If Kobe really had a top 5 peak, he sure as hell would have taken his team to a higher seed than the 7th, no matter how shitty his team(s) were.
Kobe's peak is easily better than Moses', Magic's, Garnett's, Wilt's, Oscar's, Drob's, Ewing's.
Kobe's peak is arguably better than LeBron's, Duncan's, Duncan's
Kobe's peak is not better than Jordan's, Bird's, Hakeem's, Shaq's.

[SexSymbol]

http://replygif.net/i/1049.gif
whole post is just lol
Is Josef Fritzl your father figure?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Jerry West on Kobe Bryant


He’s playing the best basketball I have ever seen him play to be honest with you. When he shoots shots a lot of people would probably think they are bad shots. For him, he is not only creative, but he is a shot maker. Some people are creative, but they’re not shot makers. He can make tough shots. He just seems to will the ball in the basket. I’ve never seen him play better… At this time of year, people talk about adjustments that people make. The adjustments that people make are not really the telling part of it. Your great players, this is their time to shine. You can’t really run your offense. After the first couple of games, everyone will be waiting on everyone. The team that has the best ability to beat people off the dribble and be creative will be successful. There’s no better player that I’ve ever seen than him… He’s the greatest Laker player that we have ever seen.”

now i know Jerry West doesn't have the credentials that a Jammeerthefear or any other random ISH poster does to speak on this..but it's an opinion none the less, lets give this "Jerry West" guy a chance

[Cold soul]

Jerry West on Kobe Bryant



now i know Jerry West doesn't have the credentials that a Jammeerthefear or any other random ISH poster does to speak on this..but it's an opinion none the less, lets give this "Jerry West" guy a chance

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Jameerthefear]

[T_L_P]

Kobe's peak is easily better than Moses', Magic's, Garnett's, Wilt's, Oscar's, Drob's, Ewing's.
Kobe's peak is arguably better than LeBron's, Duncan's, Duncan's
Kobe's peak is not better than Jordan's, Bird's, Hakeem's, Shaq's.


You're gonna have to define what a peak is then, because for most people it's a regular season + post-season, or two of those at the most.

So let's go through them:

Kobe's peak is (I'm assuming) '05-'06?

Regular season: 35/5/5/2
Playoffs: 28/6/5/1

Patrick Ewing ('89-'90)

Regular season: 29/11/2/1/4
Playoffs: 29/11/3/1/2

Patrick wins, especially considering he anchored one of the league's best defenses.

Kevin Garnett ('03-'04)

Regular season: 24/14/5/2/2
Playoffs: 24/15/5/1/2

Garnett wins, especially considering he played some of, if not the most elite defense in the league

I'll give you the others because I can't be assed to go through them all.

Tim Duncan ('02-'03)

Regular season: 23/13/4/1/3
Playoffs: 25/15/5/3

Then there's the '01-'02 season, where he had better numbers than in '02-'03 but he did afterall win the ship in '03.

LeBron's losing peak in Cleveland is better than Kobe's. And so is his peak in Miami when he won it (30/10/6 in the Playoffs).

You've already established the others.

You can talk about prime and longevity all you want, but Kobe's peak (number-wise) isn't better than the guys I listed, and they all played just as well in the post-season (Kobe did not) and took their teams to more wins...not to mention in '05 Kobe had the highest USG % of any player in any season, ever.

[GoranDragon]

He isn't.

[AlphaWolf24]

"Kobe is the greatest Laker ever" - Shaq

"Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time" - Magic

"Kobe is the greatest Laker I ever seen " - Jerry West

"Where's My Statue?" - Kareem

"ZZZ" - Wilt

[Cold soul]

"Kobe is the greatest Laker ever" - Shaq

"Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time" - Magic

"Kobe is the greatest Laker I ever seen " - Jerry West

"Where's My Statue?" - Kareem

"ZZZ" - Wilt


/thread

[Jameerthefear]

Wait did this dude just say Kobe's peak is easily better than Wilt and Magic?? LMAO :roll:

[T_L_P]

Wait did this dude just say Kobe's peak is easily better than Wilt and Magic?? LMAO :roll:

And Garnett's, apparently, even though KG took his mediocre team to the # 1 seed and the Western Conference Finals.

And then a case can still be made for Wade, Dirk, T-Mac etc.

[TheMarkMadsen]

[QUOTE=Jameerthefear]

[Jameerthefear]

And Garnett's, apparently, even though KG took his mediocre team to the # 1 seed and the Western Conference Finals.

And then a case can still be made for Wade, Dirk, T-Mac etc.
It's just wild. Kobe stans are absolutely delusional. There are probably 20 players I'd draft before Kobe, but apparently he's top 10. Lol.

[LAZERUSS]

Top-8 are locked up...

Magic, MJ, Russell, and Wilt and in no particular order.

KAJ

Shaq and Duncan. Go with Shaq for peak, and Duncan for extended prime.

Lebron (and climbing)


After that...

Dog-fight for 9-10 spots between Kobe, Hakeem, Moses, Dr. J, and Oscar.

Personally...Kobe and Moses.

Yep, forgot Bird. Sorry.

I would have Kobe at #9, Bird at #10, and Hakeem, Dr. J, Moses, and Oscar in any order.

[GoranDragon]

It's just wild. Kobe stans are absolutely delusional. There are probably 20 players I'd draft before Kobe, but apparently he's top 10. Lol.
That's an understatement. I have a list of 30 players I would take over Kobe anyday.

[SexSymbol]

That's an understatement. I have a list of 30 players I would take over Kobe anyday.
It just keeps getting worse and worse.
We told you days ago to stop trolling, because you're one of the weakest in recent memory, but you just don't quit huh?
At least be like Jameer, he openly admitted to trying to troll Kobe fans, has a nice sister-****ing, child-porn watching, jacking off to anime character.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yep, forgot Bird. Sorry.

I would have Kobe at #9, Bird at #10, and Hakeem, Dr. J, Moses, and Oscar in any order.
Jerry West? Also Bob Pettit really had a good career. A ring, 4 Finals, 2 MVPs, 10 All-NBA First teams, 11 allstar teams, and 2 scoring titles.

[LAZERUSS]

Jerry West? Also Bob Pettit really had a good career. A ring, 4 Finals, 2 MVPs, 10 All-NBA First teams, 11 allstar teams, and 2 scoring titles.

You know what Duece...

I'll give you props on this one...

I have Kobe #9, Bird at #10...and you can throw a blanket over West, Pettit, Dr. J, Oscar, Hakeem, and Moses.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You know what Duece...

I'll give you props on this one...

I have Kobe #9, Bird at #10...and you can throw a blanket over West, Pettit, Dr. J, Oscar, Hakeem, and Moses.
Why do you have Lebron in the top 10?

Wilt
Jordan
Russell
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
West
Oscar
Hakeem
Mikan
Pettit
Baylor
Erving
Barry
Moses

Lebron is not greater than them. Let's remember that no one considered him greater than these guys before he joined 2 allstars in Miami. His 2 free agency rings are not as valuable as these players rings and for a player like Baylor who went to 7 finals and lost to a Celtic dynasty 6 times which Lebron never had to deal with.

[zoom17]

Why do you have Lebron in the top 10?

Wilt
Jordan
Russell
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
West
Oscar
Hakeem
Mikan
Pettit
Baylor
Erving
Barry
Moses

Lebron is not greater than them. Let's remember that no one considered him greater than these guys before he joined 2 allstars in Miami. His 2 free agency rings are not as valuable as these players rings and for a player like Baylor who went to 7 finals and lost to a Celtic dynasty 6 times which Lebron never had to deal with.

:facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

And Garnett's, apparently, even though KG took his mediocre team to the # 1 seed and the Western Conference Finals.

And then a case can still be made for Wade, Dirk, T-Mac etc.

wow KG led numerous squads that became stepping stones to young Kobe's threepeat

very impressive

[Deuce Bigalow]

:facepalm
Fact - Lebron was a zero time champion, swept in his lone Finals averaging 22 ppg, 6 tov, and 36% shooting, and beat one 50-win team in the playoffs before teaming up.

ISH didn't even consider him a top 25 player after the 2011 Finals - http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239784

[zoom17]

Fact - Lebron was a zero time champion, swept in his lone Finals averaging 22 ppg, 6 tov, and 36% shooting, and beat one 50-win team in the playoffs before teaming up.

ISH didn't even consider him a top 25 player after the 2011 Finals - http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239784

most people have lebron in there top ten or near it. He surpassed many people on the list you posted above.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Highest Finals series PPG

Michael Jordan, 1993 Finals - 41.0
Rick Barry, 1967 Finals - 40.8
Elgin Baylor, 1962 Finals - 40.6
Shaquille O'Neal, 2000 Finals - 38.0
Jerry West, 1969 Finals - 37.9
Shaquille O'Neal, 2002 Finals - 36.3
Michael Jordan, 1992 Finals - 35.8
Allen Iverson, 2001 Finals - 35.6
Dwyane Wade, 2006 Finals - 34.7
Jerry West, 1966 Finals - 33.9
Elgin Baylor, 1963 Finals - 33.8
Jerry West, 1965 Finals - 33.8
Michael Jordan, 1998 Finals - 33.5
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1980 Finals - 33.4
Shaquille O'Neal, 2001 Finals - 33.0
Hakeem Olajuwon, 1995 Finals - 32.8
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1974 Finals - 32.6
Kobe Bryant, 2009 Finals - 32.4
Michael Jordan, 1997 Finals - 32.3
George Mikan, 1950 Finals - 32.2
Jerry West, 1968 Finals - 31.3
Jerry West, 1970 Finals - 31.3
Michael Jordan, 1991 Finals - 31.2
Jerry West, 1962 Finals - 31.1
Kevin Durant, 2012 Finals - 30.6
Julius Erving, 1977 Finals - 30.3
Bob Pettit, 1957 Finals - 30.1

West is on there 6 times, Baylor two times, Pettit once, Erving once, Mikan once, Rick Barry once. Where's Lebron? Oh wait he averaged 22 ppg on 36% shooting in his lone Finals before joing Wade and Bosh.

[zoom17]

Highest Finals series PPG

Michael Jordan, 1993 Finals - 41.0
Rick Barry, 1967 Finals - 40.8
Elgin Baylor, 1962 Finals - 40.6
Shaquille O'Neal, 2000 Finals - 38.0
Jerry West, 1969 Finals - 37.9
Shaquille O'Neal, 2002 Finals - 36.3
Michael Jordan, 1992 Finals - 35.8
Allen Iverson, 2001 Finals - 35.6
Dwyane Wade, 2006 Finals - 34.7
Jerry West, 1966 Finals - 33.9
Elgin Baylor, 1963 Finals - 33.8
Jerry West, 1965 Finals - 33.8
Michael Jordan, 1998 Finals - 33.5
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1980 Finals - 33.4
Shaquille O'Neal, 2001 Finals - 33.0
Hakeem Olajuwon, 1995 Finals - 32.8
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1974 Finals - 32.6
Kobe Bryant, 2009 Finals - 32.4
Michael Jordan, 1997 Finals - 32.3
George Mikan, 1950 Finals - 32.2
Jerry West, 1968 Finals - 31.3
Jerry West, 1970 Finals - 31.3
Michael Jordan, 1991 Finals - 31.2
Jerry West, 1962 Finals - 31.1
Kevin Durant, 2012 Finals - 30.6
Julius Erving, 1977 Finals - 30.3
Bob Pettit, 1957 Finals - 30.1

West is on there 6 times, Baylor two times, Pettit once, Erving once, Mikan once, Rick Barry once. Where's Lebron? Oh wait he averaged 22 ppg on 36% shooting in his lone Finals before joing Wade and Bosh.


Basketball is more than just scoring Lebron is one of the best all round players ever. If I had a choice between kobe and Lebron to start a franchise Lebron would easily be my pick.

[b1imtf]

"Kobe is the greatest Laker ever" - Shaq

"Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time" - Magic

"Kobe is the greatest Laker I ever seen " - Jerry West

"Where's My Statue?" - Kareem

"ZZZ" - Wilt
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

most people have lebron in there top ten or near it. He surpassed many people on the list you posted above.
Why should Lebron be ranked over Rick Barry? Do you know what Barry did in '75? Brought Golden State their lone championship with a bunch of nobodies. Has the highest career Finals ppg ever. What does Lebron have? 2 championships after the fact of joining two allstars. Imagine if Barry had 2 allstars, he won a championship with NO allstar teammate on his team.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Basketball is more than just scoring Lebron is one of the best all round players ever. If I had a choice between kobe and Lebron to start a franchise Lebron would easily be my pick.
Okay you want to compare the rebounding numbers of Pettit, Moses, Mikan, Baylor? Assist numbers of Oscar, how about triple doubles with Oscar? How about West's assist title that he won?

[T_L_P]

wow KG led numerous squads that became stepping stones to young Kobe's threepeat

very impressive

Young mean Shaq's threepeat?

And if that's the measure, Kobe's peak is worse than Nash's?

[HOoopCityJones]

Young mean Shaq's threepeat?

And if that's the measure, Kobe's peak is worse than Nash's?

You mean Parker's three rings?

[jstern]

I would imagine he's not in the top ten on the list of many people because they have other players ahead of him. It's not a situation where you get to say, "He's top ten, along with these 10, 12, 13 other players."

[air mamba]

Only on this forum, would this be a question meanwhile most non biased analysts already have him at the bottom of their top ten lists, or just barely missing the top ten. right around the 8-11 range

You just cant put 30,000+ points. longevity with sustained upper echelon level play, and 5 titles in 7 finals appearances no more than 11th all time

If you ask me i have him sitting at 9th all time.

[T_L_P]

You mean Parker's three rings?

You thought Robert Horry played for the Spurs in a year which he actually played for your favourite team.

And everytime you've been presented with the stats to prove the 2010 Lakers > the 2003 Spurs, you've quietly dipped out of the thread(s)

You fail :oldlol:


Oh, and HoopCity, to answer your question: Kobe Bryant IS pne of the top 10 players.

[LAZERUSS]

In Kobe's defense, he was the best player in the majority of the Spurs-Lakers series in the 00's, including '08 when he was clearly better than Duncan.

LA would never have three-peated without Kobe's brilliant play in the WCF's.

[TheMarkMadsen]

In Kobe's defense, he was the best player in the majority of the Spurs-Lakers series in the 00's, including '08 when he was clearly better than Duncan.

LA would never have three-peated without Kobe's brilliant play in the WCF's.

very true, Kobe always came to play against the Spurs. 01 especially

[IMObjective]

“Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game. But I may go as far to say Lebron James may be the the greatest player to ever play the game.”
-Scottie Pippen
Pippen (beta) -----》LeBron

Jordan, magic, bird (not betas) -----》 Kobe

Let's face it, for some reason none of the real legends seem to like LeBron, i think they see everything wrong with the new generation in him (primadonna, the flopping, the *colluding*) while Kobe, who can be unlikable in other ways, is more old school and they see some of themselves in him.

[gts]

[QUOTE=Jameerthefear]

[gts]

Well, he's the best player, by far. Dirk or Nash don't really play defense. And you talk about LeBron (James), well, LeBron doesn't check Kobe, but Kobe checks LeBron. Kobe does pattern himself after Michael (Jordan) in that fact that he's going to check the best. I think that's why he's the best player, because he's one of the best scorers and one of the best defenders." - Chris Webber

That's the reason I'm here coaching, basically, because Kobe is here. I made that evident when I came back that if I was going to coach this team, Kobe is going to be here. He's in a league all to himself... He just smells blood in the water and he's going to go after it. ...That's what you see that you admire in Kobe is that he's going to attack. He's going to be in that mode. He's going to continue to go at a team until either you take him out of the ballgame or else they stop him." - Phil Jackson

"Kobe Bryant is the most complete offensive player that the game has ever seen." - Greg Anthony

Toronto's Jalen Rose:
"I'll be watching because I'm an NBA lifer -- I watch every game I can. We don't want to be the team that gave up 81 -- nobody wants to be looked at like that -- but we have to give Kobe his due. This is the best all-around player and competitor in the game. And the scary part is, he will only get better, especially with Phil Jackson on his side. He will go down as one of the all-time greats."

Cavs Guard, Eric Snow:
"Hats off, he's the best. It's hard to get 50 in a game. He did it in a half. It takes a tough player who works really hard. I think he's one of the best ever."


George Gervin:
"To compare it to anybody would be useless. He set himself apart from everyone else. Everyone looks for another Michael Jordan, and there probably won't be one. What Kobe did was establish himself as one of the greatest scorers of all time at an early age. He's a phenom. I'm a believer, man. Now we've got to sit back and wait and see if anyone scores 82."

Chicago Bulls G, Ben Gordon:" That should put all the questions to rest who's the most talented and who's the, you know, best offensive player in the league. You know if he would've had a decent first half, he might've got 100 points last night. I mean if anybody can go out there and score 25 points a quarter I would definetly say it's Kobe."

Chicago Bulls F/C, Tyson Chandler: "We're witnessing greatness right now. We need to understand that. (asked: "Is he the best of the best?") Yeah, definitely."

Mavs GM, Mark Cuban:
"It's amazing. Beyond amazing. He's on another level from any other player at this point. It's like he is toying with teams. If you push up on him, he just takes two steps back and shoots from further out. I hope the NBA adjusts its TV schedule so we all can see him play more. It would be fun to watch and fun to debate how far a one-man show can drag four other players in a team sport."

Orlando Magic Guard, Keyon Dooling:
"It's not just a buzz about Kobe, it's a holler. That guy is incredible. That's why he's the best player in the league

Orlando Magic Assistant GM, Otis Smith:
"Whether you like him or dislike him, Kobe is a special player. He has the killer instinct in him that a lot of the talented players don't have. When he smells blood, he goes for the jugular. That's a (Michael) Jordan-like quality."

Hornets Guard Kirk Snyder:
"I heard about it after I had finished hanging out with David West, and he called me and said that Kobe had scored 81. My first thought was is that I'm in the NBA with probably one of the best players ever to play in the NBA."

Jerry West:
"I don't know if anyone could have stopped him last night. It's so senseless to me to say he shouldn't take over like that. You give the same amount of shots to everybody else and they're not making that many, I know it. Players are jealous of greatness. Kobe is a unique talent and a unique person. His belief that he can jump to the moon is never going to change. But I admire him, what he's been able to overcome. You would think he would be a fair-haired man of the NBA with what's he's already done. But he's taken a fairly good battering.

Ex-Bull and now-Analyst Steve Kerr:
"I'm always one to credit the guys who win. I don't know if I would have given Kobe the M.V.P. last week. But what he did in the game last night, he's so clearly the best player out there.

[Deuce Bigalow]

^Bbbbbut but Kobe was never the best player in the league

http://media.giphy.com/media/vLdryXPiZuewE/giphy.gif

[Deuce Bigalow]

And then they said you carried me

http://25.media.tumblr.com/0ce8e4861840205195dfc61762fbaca7/tumblr_mj1prrCg1M1rk0uv7o1_500.gif

[Deuce Bigalow]

[QUOTE=Jameerthefear]

[Cold soul]

The greatest duo in NBA history Kobe & Shaq.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1106/memorable.sports.kisses/images/shaq-kobe.jpg

[Heavincent]

^Bbbbbut but Kobe was never the best player in the league


That's only something an uneducated fan who started watching in 2011 would say.

Kobe was widely regarded as the best player in the game from 06 to 10.

[Deuce Bigalow]

That's only something an uneducated fan who started watching in 2011 would say.

Kobe was widely regarded as the best player in the game from 06 to 10.
Dude what is your avatar?

[Heavincent]

Dude what is your avatar?

It's my dating profile. Interested?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A21wxZKiao8

[Deuce Bigalow]

It's my dating profile. Interested?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A21wxZKiao8
Nice

[Cold soul]

How many championships do Shaq and Kobe win if they would of played their entire careers together from start to finish. I know egos would eventually get in the way with both like it did in the past. Just fun hypothetical is all. I'd say 6 or 7.

[TheMarkMadsen]

How many championships do Shaq and Kobe win if they would of played their entire careers together from start to finish. I know egos would eventually get in the way with both like it did in the past. Just fun hypothetical is all. I'd say 6 or 7.

can't even be hypothetical about it because after a couple rings Kobe was dying to prove he didn't need Shaq to get it done, and that attitude love it or hate it molded Kobe into the player he is/was

i guess if there was a Shaq & Kobe clone and neither of them had the egos these two had I honestly think they could have won 6 rings minimum, and 10 rings wouldn't be out of the question..

if they start out their careers together they are winning championships by year 4, would most likely 3peat, and have a chance of winning 4-5 in a row with a good supporting cast and no egos colliding. so theres 4-5, they both had good/great longevity.. Kobe was winning FMVP's at 32 while Shaq had begun to slow down, so they could have continued to win championships into their mid 30's.