Hakeem vs Lebron

[ImKobe]

Which one will you take to start a franchise?

[GoranDragon]

Lebron.

[ImKobe]

Lebron.

Why? :confusedshrug:

[GoranDragon]

Why? :confusedshrug:
Better all around player.

Lebron would still win a ring and FMVP on Hakeem's Rockets team but Hakeem wouldn't win jack sh1t on the Miami Heat.

[Mr. Jabbar]

The guy with a heart


Besides, you never start a franchise with bran cause he leaves for greener pastures

[GOATbe]

Hakeem had an nba level offensive skillset and could actually defend players so definitely him.

[GoranDragon]

Lebron can guard all 5 positions while Hakeem can't keep up with guards.

[TMT]

Give me the Dream. Lebron is probably one of the hardest superstars in history to build around.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Lebron can guard all 5 positions while Hakeem can't keep up with guards.

I bet you can guard all 5 positions too, getting destroyed is another story

[CavaliersFTW]

Hakeem has become overrated in the Youtube era by people watching highlights of his aesthetically pleasing travels, I mean footwork. That said, Hakeem. Impacts the game defensively more than Lebron can. And on top of that having a scorer that can legitimately go inside in this era is like having a diamond in the rough. Heat would not have lost in '11 had they had Hakeem instead of Lebron. I mean, Wade, Bosh and Hakeem? League would fold.

[Angel Face]

The one who won't shat his pants. Hakeem Olajuwon!

[Mr. Jabbar]

Give me the Dream. Lebron is probably one of the hardest superstars in history to build around.

This. You need pretty much bran + every top player taking pay cuts, I'd rather start a franchise with pat Riley than bran

[GoranDragon]

Mr. Jabbar I need to remind you that Lebron's name is not "bran". Don't insult the 2nd GOAT with a stupid name.:facepalm

[iamgine]

Hakeem because he stayed with Houston throughout his career and good big men are a rare commodity today.

[ripthekik]

The guy that doesn't need 2 starting allstars in his team to win. The guy that won't leave your franchise first chance he gets.

[MrC1991]

I give a slight edge to Dream because he was one of the most dominant big men ever. Did everything a big man was suppose to do.

[Harison]

Hakeem without a second thought. Two-way All-time great center, who could elevate his game in Playoffs to absurd heights. If he was on Lebron's teams instead of him, Dream would have won multiple championships where LBJ folded and failed. And I'm not talking just about Heat 11, Dream would have won with Cavs too.

[Im Still Ballin]

Hakeem without a second thought. Two-way All-time great center, who could elevate his game in Playoffs to absurd heights. If he was on Lebron's teams instead of him, Dream would have won multiple championships where LBJ folded and failed. And I'm not talking just about Heat 11, Dream would have won with Cavs too.

He would not have won with Cleveland.

[Dbrog]

Better all around player.

Lebron would still win a ring and FMVP on Hakeem's Rockets team but Hakeem wouldn't win jack sh1t on the Miami Heat.

Still don't understand how you aren't banned with your posts in the last couple weeks. Saying Hakeem wouldn't win with Miami is not only ignorant, it's also easy to see just how dominant they would be thanks to the similarities on the teams.

Cassell/Kenny > Heat PGs
oldman Drex = Wade (similar games)
Horry = Battier/Miller (defense+cluch shots)
Thorpe < Bosh (Bosh is Thorpe+shooting ability)
Hakeem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heat Bigs

Not to mention 6th man:
Maxwell < Allen


Chalmers/Cole
Wade/Allen
Battier/Miller
Bosh/Lewis
Hakeem/Birdman

Come on man...that's easily best defense in the NBA and unstoppable on offense. Easy chip for the past 8 years.

[CavaliersFTW]

He would not have won with Cleveland.
If bron was on the team with him you're right, Cleveland era bran's disappearing acts were legendary. Not even Hakeem could carry that load of emotional baggage on his shoulders. However subtract 'bran from the roster and the team gets instantly better, Hakeem was able to win with a star-less roster in Houston by making everyone around him better, he'd def manage in Cleveland.

[Im Still Ballin]

If bron was on the team with him you're right, Cleveland era bran's disappearing acts were legendary. Not even Hakeem could carry that load of emotional baggage on his shoulders. However subtract 'bran from the roster and the team gets instantly better, Hakeem was able to win with a star-less roster in Houston by making everyone around him better, he'd def manage in Cleveland.

You are an idiot if you think the team would be better off with only Hakeem than LBJ and Hakeem. Subtract LBJ and they get insantly better? Need i remind you Cleveland went from the best record in the league to the worst when LBJ left.

Also its a totally different era of play, rules are different and Hakeem alone is not getting by Boston any better than LBJ.

[CavaliersFTW]

You are an idiot if you think the team would be better off with only Hakeem than LBJ and Hakeem. Subtract LBJ and they get insantly better? Need i remind you Cleveland went from the best record in the league to the worst when LBJ left.

Also its a totally different era of play, rules are different and Hakeem alone is not getting by Boston any better than LBJ.
When Hakeem is on your team and bran is in his choking prime, trust me, it is addition by subtraction. U mad? :lol

[Im Still Ballin]

When Hakeem is on your team and bran is in his choking prime, trust me, it is addition by subtraction. U mad? :lol

I'm not mad I'm just a logical basketball fan that isn't still pissed that the only good thing that ever happened to my team (your team) left because the organization couldn't surround him with winners unlike his new team in Miami. :roll:

Get over it Lebron is one of the top 10 greatest players in NBA history

[GoranDragon]

I'm not mad I'm just a logical basketball fan that isn't still pissed that the only good thing that ever happened to my team (your team) left because the organization couldn't surround him with winners unlike his new team in Miami. :roll:

Get over it Lebron is one of the top 10 greatest players in NBA history
Ether.:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Audio One]

The thing with Olajuwon on this board is that the opinions of him gradually become more and more extreme. Compare him with LeBron and he'll win that poll with ease. Start a thread comparing him to Duncan and they'll say he was five times better at literally every skill in existence. Start a thread comparing him to Jordan and they'll take Olajuwon. Compare him to anyone else, still Olajuwon. Pit him 1-on-5 against an all-time team, still Olajuwon. Any blemishes on his career - believe it or not, he has them - are conveniently wiped away from existence and attributed to some other BS. He has become comically overrated by so many who want to act like they're the smartest person in the room that it's downright sickening.

[CavaliersFTW]

bran's stans jimmies are rustled too easily these days, must be because he isn't the best player in the league anymore :oldlol:

[navy]

I would take Hakeem because he was a dominant big man, but no Hakeem would not win with Cavaliers.

[noob cake]

I'll take Hakeem due to the player composition in NBA today.

LeBron has to compete with Durant and George. Plus, you can get like 10-15 all-star/borderline all-star quality PG to play PG duty like LeBron often does.

Hakeem would have no equals at either PF or C. Even David Robinson would be the most dominant front court player today.

[Solid Snake]

Lebron can guard all 5 positions while Hakeem can't keep up with guards.


Oh this phrase is so overstated. Give me 3 examples examples where Lebron consistently and successfully defended all 5 positions.

[knicksman]

legit rings or cheap rinngs??

theres no comparisonn

its hakeem.

[Dragonyeuw]

Better all around player.

Lebron would still win a ring and FMVP on Hakeem's Rockets team but Hakeem wouldn't win jack sh1t on the Miami Heat.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Hakeem showed that he was capable of leading a team to a title without a second superstar in 94, did I miss the season when Lebron did the same?

[houston]

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Hakeem showed that he was capable of leading a team to a title without a second superstar in 94, did I miss the season when Lebron did the same?


Man why do people say that about Hakeem not having a superstar cause he beat an overrated Knicks team that was built just like his?? Otis Thorpe was a better player than every Knick not named Patrick Ewing. Plus Sam Cassell ended up having a better career than every Knick not named Patrick Ewing.


Lebron no doubt the one you start franchise with cause he the more impactful player. At least we seen him lead suspect squads to 60 wins seasons. Hakeem never had a 60 win season in his career:roll:

[Cold soul]

Hakeem is the greater player and had more impact than Lebron. I choice Hakeem easily.

[houston]

The thing with Olajuwon on this board is that the opinions of him gradually become more and more extreme. Compare him with LeBron and he'll win that poll with ease. Start a thread comparing him to Duncan and they'll say he was five times better at literally every skill in existence. Start a thread comparing him to Jordan and they'll take Olajuwon. Compare him to anyone else, still Olajuwon. Pit him 1-on-5 against an all-time team, still Olajuwon. Any blemishes on his career - believe it or not, he has them - are conveniently wiped away from existence and attributed to some other BS. He has become comically overrated by so many who want to act like they're the smartest person in the room that it's downright sickening.


Yea man and the sad thing is they don't remember when he was "Akeem".:oldlol:

[gin17]

hakeem, period.

[Magic 32]

Lebron can guard all 5 positions while Hakeem can't keep up with guards.

http://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/roy-hibbert-images-girlfriend1.jpg

[G-Funk]

Lebron can guard all 5 positions while Hakeem can't keep up with guards.


http://m.memegen.com/zqbu4b.jpg


Ladies and Gentlemen, Lebron stans in a nutshell.

[G-Funk]

Hakeem was the anchor of both sides of the court. ill take him

[HoopsFanNumero1]

So many agendas on this board. What's the point of creating a comparison thread? It's not like anyone's gonna be objective.

[Rondo]

Mr. Jabbar I need to remind you that Lebron's name is not "bran". Don't insult the 2nd GOAT with a stupid name.:facepalm

I didn't see him insulting Kareem :confusedshrug:

[Andrei89]

The guy that doesn't need 2 starting allstars in his team to win. The guy that won't leave your franchise first chance he gets.


Maybe you should write another 1300+ word essay about it.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Maybe you should write another 1300+ word essay about it.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[hitmanyr2k]

In this shit era for centers and a weaksauce Eastern Conference on top of that? I take Hakeem all day, every day. Why is this even a question? Who's going to stop him? Roy Hibbert? :roll:

[pauk]

Hakeem was the most skilled big guy i ever seen maybe, but Lebron is overall the best all-round player i ever seen, both were great on both ends in different ways. Really depends on what your team needs more for you to really consider Hakeem over Lebron and even then you would feel very sorry.... because Lebron would be the more safer bet due to his much more versatile game and he sure had notably a more productive & dominant peak filled with more accolades than Hakeem... and Lebron didnt need for the actual best player in the NBA (Jordan) to take a vacation for him to win his championships, because he was "the Jordan"....

There is only one guy i wouldnt bother taking over Lebron and its Michael Jordan, maybe Oscar Robertson & Wilt Chamberlain aswell if they would really harvest anywhere close to those same numbers in the modern era (which i doubt they would).

[Duncan21formvp]

Hakeem as he won't be jumping from franchise to franchise forming superteams.

[Round Mound]

Dream

[Lebron23]

Hakeem as he won't be jumping from franchise to franchise forming superteams.

4x nba mvp, 3x finals mvp is better than 1x mvp, 2x finals mvp.

[HoopsNY]

Man why do people say that about Hakeem not having a superstar cause he beat an overrated Knicks team that was built just like his?? Otis Thorpe was a better player than every Knick not named Patrick Ewing. Plus Sam Cassell ended up having a better career than every Knick not named Patrick Ewing

Probably because Hakeem didn't just beat a Knicks team with a lone star in Ewing. Look what he did against a Blazers team with Robinson-Drexler-Strickland, a Suns team with Barkley-Kj, and a Jazz team with Stockton-Malone.

There is a reason Hakeem stands out in NBA history.

[HoopsNY]

The thing about Hakeem is that his team got decimated by injuries and coke fiends when he first came into the league. Hakeem's Rockets beat the Showtime Lakers in '86 and were the only team to take the Celtics to 6 games that entire postseason.

Things looked promising but injuries to Ralph Sampson and the banning of 2 of his teammates, including Lewis Lloyd who was an excellent role player, really hurt the Rockets. They also had John Lucas who was an original up and coming point guard when he was first drafted. After returning to the Rockets, his drug addiction had continued. Eventually in '86, the Rockets released him after passing out in a nightclub.

Lucas was an excellent PG though. He was a 15.5/9 assist player who offered veteran leadership. Robert Reid filled his shoes nicely during that postseason, averaging 15/7.

But look at that, 3 cocaine addicts and one half of the twin towers all had a big demise. Without question, if Hakeem hadn't faced those woes, we might be talking about him being the GOAT and not MJ. Hakeem was a legit quadruple-double threat on some nights. And had he played in the social-media highlight era, his fame would probably be unmatched.

[Reggie43]

Akeem

[Axe]

Olajuwon

[light]

Which one will you take to start a franchise?

Everyone is taking LeBron.

Look, LeBron can transform into Hakeem if you need him to do that. Hakeem cannot transform into LeBron on command.

Have a point guard problem? You can't look to Hakeem to step up and solve that problem.

Have a center problem? Slide LeBron over. Problem solved.

Same goes for MJ, by the way.

[BigShotBob]

Everyone is taking LeBron.

Look, LeBron can transform into Hakeem if you need him to do that. Hakeem cannot transform into LeBron on command.

Have a point guard problem? You can't look to Hakeem to step up and solve that problem.

Have a center problem? Slide LeBron over. Problem solved.

Same goes for MJ, by the way.

This guy. :roll:

Has Lebron ever won DPOY? Even once?

[light]

This guy. :roll:

Has Lebron ever won DPOY? Even once?

Yes, the coaches of the NBA voted him DPOY twice in 2012 and 2013. The media selected Chandler and Gasol, but the coaches vehemently disagreed and only put those two on the 2nd team while giving LeBron the most votes as top defender.

LeBron was widely regarded as the best defender in the league for many years and he is also known as one of the best defenders in history and the single most versatile defender in history, with Scottie Pippen coming in 2nd behind him.

https://s7.gifyu.com/images/Screenshot_20200610-194848_Chrome.jpg

[BigShotBob]

Yes, the coaches of the NBA voted him DPOY twice in 2012 and 2013. The media selected Chandler and Gasol, but the coaches vehemently disagreed and only put those two on the 2nd team while giving LeBron the most votes as top defender.

So is it in his award case?

No?

Aight then.

Also Hakeem was MVP and DPOY and FMVP in the same season.

Lebron loses.....

The

End.

[Lebron23]

So is it in his award case?

No?

Aight then.

Also Hakeem was MVP and DPOY and FMVP in the same season.

Lebron loses.....

The

End.

Lebron was also an nba mvp, all star mvp, finals mvp, and olympic gold medalist in 2012

[light]

So is it in his award case?

No?

Aight then.

Also Hakeem was MVP and DPOY and FMVP in the same season.

Lebron loses.....

The

End.

LeBron was MVP, Finals MVP and the best defender in the league in back-to-back seasons.

He defended 1-through-5. Hakeem couldn't do that.

LeBron always wins.

[Rico2016]

6,911

[Axe]

4,402

[Rico2016]

Yes, the coaches of the NBA voted him DPOY twice in 2012 and 2013. The media selected Chandler and Gasol, but the coaches vehemently disagreed and only put those two on the 2nd team while giving LeBron the most votes as top defender.

LeBron was widely regarded as the best defender in the league for many years and he is also known as one of the best defenders in history and the single most versatile defender in history, with Scottie Pippen coming in 2nd behind him.

https://s7.gifyu.com/images/Screenshot_20200610-194848_Chrome.jpg

And he gives you 30 a night?

King James!

[zizozain]

i do not want him to give me ''30 a night''. I WANT CHAMPIONSHIPS

Hakeem

[Lebron23]

i do not want him to give me ''30 a night''. I WANT CHAMPIONSHIPS

Hakeem

First time you posted in this forum since Kobe's Death.

[Roundball_Rock]

Wow. Hakeem over LeBron? Hakeem would have been GOAT if he had better team luck? For most of Hakeem's career David Robinson and Ewing were considered roughly equal to him (while Barkley was considered better than Hakeem for many years). Robinson actually beat Hakeem in All-NBA more often than vice versa (imagine if KD beat LeBron regularly outside of 12' and 13'). Even at Hakeem's absolute peak in 94' and 95' the debate was Hakeem vs. Robinson for best player; not Hakeem clearly ahead of the pack with Robinson and others vying for 2nd. Many people thought peak Robinson>Hakeem. More people sided with Hakeem but it was a real debate with large factions on both sides. 25 years later he>GOAT candidates like Kareem, LeBron, Wilt when he was on par with Robinson at his peak?

People always conflate 2 or 3 years with his entire career. We don't narrow careers that much with anyone else. Why with Hakeem? The reason Hakeem is at the tail end of the top 10 all-time/high end of the 11-15 group is he wasn't the Hakeem of 1993-1995 his entire career. If he did that his entire career he would be up there with Bird, Magic. He didn't.

Hakeem is the perfect player for the internet and social media era. His fancy moves are fun to watch on YT, they go viral when posted on social media, etc. But on the court was he as impactful as Duncan? Kobe? Shaq? Magic? Bird? Maybe (I have Hakeem 11th all-time), but no way he compares to GOAT candidates like LeBron.

Hakeem was great but I see him compared to guys like Kareem and LeBron these days when, during the time he actually played, he was compared to Robinson and Ewing until he crushed Ewing in 94' and Robinson in 95' head-to-head. Them choking then doesn't erase that if Hakeem was the Hakeem of YouTube fame, he would have clearly been considered better than them and it would have been Hakeem, not Barkley, being compared to MJ and Magic.

[RRR3]

i do not want him to give me ''30 a night''. I WANT CHAMPIONSHIPS

Hakeem
LeBron has more championships you idiot.

[RRR3]

Wow. Hakeem over LeBron? Hakeem would have been GOAT if he had better team luck? For most of Hakeem's career David Robinson and Ewing were considered roughly equal to him (while Barkley was considered better than Hakeem for many years). Robinson actually beat Hakeem in All-NBA more often than vice versa (imagine if KD beat LeBron regularly outside of 12' and 13'). Even at Hakeem's absolute peak the debate was Hakeem vs. Robinson for best player; not Hakeem clearly ahead of the pack. Now he>GOAT candidates like Kareem, LeBron, Wilt?

People always conflate 2 years with his entire career. We don't narrow careers that much with anyone else. Why with Hakeem?
The reason Hakeem is at the tail end of the top 10 all-time/high end of the 11-15 group is he wasn't the Hakeem of 1993-1995 his entire career. If he did that his entire career he would be up there with Bird, Magic. He didn't.

Hakeem is the perfect player for the internet and social media era. His fancy moves are fun to watch on YT, they go viral when posted on social media, etc. But on the court was he as impactful as Duncan? Kobe? Shaq? Magic? Bird? Maybe (I have Hakeem 11th all-time), but no way he compares to GOAT candidates like LeBron.

Hakeem was great but I see him compared to guys like Kareem and LeBron these days when, during the time he actually played, he was compared to Robinson and Ewing until he crushed Ewing in 94' and Robinson in 95' head-to-head. Them choking then doesn't erase that if Hakeem was the Hakeem of YouTube fame, he would have clearly been considered better than them and it would have been Hakeem, not Barkley, being compared to MJ and Magic.
This is ISH. Everyone is better than LeBron, except Pippen. They are after all the two worst players of all time.

[zizozain]

you don't fcuking get it idiot. typical ignorant lebron cnut

[Roundball_Rock]

This is ISH. Everyone is better than LeBron, except Pippen. They are after all the two worst players of all time.

:lol

The irony is the same people who lecture us for not knowing how Pippen was "really" perceived back then (e.g., that the "consensus" was Kemp>Pippen, that Mourning=Pippen, etc. :oldlol: ), evidently don't know how Hakeem was perceived back then vis-a-vis Robinson and Ewing.

So they allgedly were avidly watching basketball back then hence "know" how players were perceived, magically "caught" the Kemp>Pippen stuff (that no one else saw outside of them) but missed the entire "Hakeem vs. Robinson" debate that was the big NBA debate in 94' and 95' (which helps explain a lot--if they don't know how these players were perceived then, how would they know the standing of other players battling for 3rd best on down during the same time frame?).


you don't fcuking get it idiot. typical ignorant lebron cnut

LeBron is the reason Robinson was debated as better than Hakeem back at Hakeem's peak. LeBron set the whole thing up at school lunches.

[RRR3]

:lol

The irony is the same people who lecture us for not knowing how Pippen was "really" perceived back then (e.g., that the "consensus" was Kemp>Pippen, that Mourning=Pippen, etc. :oldlol: ), evidently don't know how Hakeem was perceived back then vis-a-vis Robinson and Ewing.

So they allgedly were avidly watching basketball back then hence "know" how players were perceived, magically "caught" the Kemp>Pippen stuff (that no one else saw outside of them) but missed the entire "Hakeem vs. Robinson" debate that was the big NBA debate in 94' and 95' (which helps explain a lot--if they don't know how these players were perceived then, how would they know the standing of other players battling for 3rd best on down during the same time frame?).



LeBron is the reason Robinson was debated as better than Hakeem back at Hakeem's peak. LeBron set the whole thing up at school lunches.
Zizozain/winwin is a very angry, butthurt poster. Used to report me to Jeff back in the day for owning him. He's never quite gotten over how great LeBron is.

[3ball]

This is ISH. Everyone is better than LeBron, except Pippen. They are after all the two worst players of all time.

We can't compare Lebron and Hakeem because Lebron cheated - Hakeem didn't team up with the #2 player and #3 PF like lebron did in 2011

Surely if Hakeem teamed up with Bird and Kemp, he'd do better than 3/17...;:facepalm:... Hakeem is easily better than lebron

[Real14]

Hakeem

[Roundball_Rock]

Zizozain/winwin is a very angry, butthurt poster. Used to report me to Jeff back in the day for owning him. He's never quite gotten over how great LeBron is.

Wow. :lol


We can't compare Lebron and Hakeem

Agreed. :cheers:

Hakeem had comparable or better talent around him than his contemporary peers. Ewing never had a Drexler or Sampson in his career (Starks was his best #2 option in his prime :roll: ). Robinson got Duncan but late in his career. Prime Robinson's most common second option was Sean Elliot. Hakeem had Drexler while Hakeem was at his peak and Drexler still a top 10 player. He had Ralph Sampson early on, hence the 86' finals trip.

[hiphopanonymous]

The guy with a heart


Besides, you never start a franchise with bran cause he leaves for greener pastures
This

[RRR3]

Everyone picking Hakeem is a LeBron hater :roll:

[light]

This

Nope. Every franchise LeBron has been on so far has won a title. He's about to make it 3 for 3. If you want to win a title, which everyone does, you're choosing LeBron.

And really most teams just talk about wanting "the chance to compete for a title" - because just getting to the finals is hard enough (ask Daryl Morey and most franchises) - and LeBron is the most guaranteed championship appearance you can ever have with one player.

Hakeem? Honestly there isn't a single GM that would choose Hakeem over LeBron. In fact, I'd argue that every single one of you saying Hakeem would also choose LeBron if you were in this situation in real life as a GM and had to face the public and explain yourself to the owner and to the fanbase.

Q: "Mr. GM, why did you choose the guy that most people have ranked maybe top 10-15 ahead of the guy that most people think is the GOAT or at worst #2?"

You: "uh, because im a basic hater." :lol

[Roundball_Rock]

Everyone picking Hakeem is a LeBron hater :roll:

:lol

It does provide value as it exposes a lot of ignorance from them about who Hakeem was, which explains a lot of their takes about the 90's.


Q: "Mr. GM, why did you choose the guy that most people have ranked maybe top 10-15 ahead of the guy that most people think is the GOAT or at worst #2?"

You: "uh, because im a basic hater."


:oldlol:

[Axe]

Nope. Every franchise LeBron has been on so far has won a title. He's about to make it 3 for 3. If you want to win a title, which everyone does, you're choosing LeBron.
You mean sans the team that drafted him in 2003, he's also gone to teams with former fmvps?

[Roundball_Rock]

RRR3, in this thread MJ stans are saying Pippen is a choker for his TS % declining -2.5% in the playoffs in his prime relative to his regular season levels, without realizing the implication of the "2.5% standard". :roll: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?481066-Decline-amp-Fall-Malone-and-Stockton-s-Efficiency-in-the-Playoffs/page2

[Axe]

https://legacy.npr.org/assets/img/2016/10/19/monkey-rock.gif

[kawhileonard2]

Hakeem he won multiple titles for the franchise that drafted him.

[eliteballer]

Hakeem's 94/95 title runs are more impressive than anything LeBron has done.

He didn't need Super Teams...or Roids.

[kawhileonard2]

Yep and Hakeem did it for the franchise that drafted him that never won prior to him arriving.

[Shooter]

I'm not going to 3ball this one (i.e. Take the bait and tear down a top 10 ATG).

LeBron is #1.
Hakeem is #9 or#10.

Move on, it's 2022.

[kawhileonard2]

I'm not going to 3ball this one (i.e. Take the bait and tear down a top 10 ATG).

LeBron is #1.
Hakeem is #9 or#10.

Move on, it's 2022.

Lebron isn't anywhere near #1. A guy in his own era has as many titles and beat him 3 times and this when Lebron was the favorite and stacked the deck.

[Shooter]

Lebron isn't anywhere near #1. A guy in his own era has as many titles and beat him 3 times and this when Lebron was the favorite and stacked the deck.

Google: Finals MVPs

[Nowitness]

History has been so kind to Hakeem. The only ATG who gets complete passes on his failures because his wins (as few as they were) were terrific.

The late 80s West was mediocre as hell, yet Hakeem routinely was being bounced in round 1 by Mavs teams led by Rolando Blackman and Derek Harper, or Sonics teams led by Dale Ellis and Xavier McDaniels. That would have been like James losing to Toronto in 2018.

Let me guess tho, he had weak teams? Firstly if he was able to carry the weakest team to ever win a title in 94, how is he failing to even win a playoff series years prior? He had several former All-Stars with him. Hell, in 1990 vs LA he was HIS OWN TEAMS 4th leading scorer behind Thorpe, Sleepy and Mad Max. Still lost the series (albeit this year to an actual good team).

His ability to transcend the stat sheet doesn't come close to LBJ. 1986-93 Hakeem is 05-11/17-19 James, difference being James could dominate a stat sheet and still win playoff series, Hakeem could not.

He is top 5 all time in talent/skill, and arguably the best defender ever. For all that, bar a 2 year period in which MJ was playing Right Field and the 3 point line was shortened, he achieved very little.

10th all time, James top 3.

[HoopsNY]

History has been so kind to Hakeem. The only ATG who gets complete passes on his failures because his wins (as few as they were) were terrific.

The late 80s West was mediocre as hell, yet Hakeem routinely was being bounced in round 1 by Mavs teams led by Rolando Blackman and Derek Harper, or Sonics teams led by Dale Ellis and Xavier McDaniels. That would have been like James losing to Toronto in 2018.

Let me guess tho, he had weak teams? Firstly if he was able to carry the weakest team to ever win a title in 94, how is he failing to even win a playoff series years prior? He had several former All-Stars with him. Hell, in 1990 vs LA he was HIS OWN TEAMS 4th leading scorer behind Thorpe, Sleepy and Mad Max. Still lost the series (albeit this year to an actual good team).

His ability to transcend the stat sheet doesn't come close to LBJ. 1986-93 Hakeem is 05-11/17-19 James, difference being James could dominate a stat sheet and still win playoff series, Hakeem could not.

He is top 5 all time in talent/skill, and arguably the best defender ever. For all that, bar a 2 year period in which MJ was playing Right Field and the 3 point line was shortened, he achieved very little.

10th all time, James top 3.

History isn't nice to Hakeem, it's the complete opposite. You're holding Hakeem to insane standards by focusing on his year 4 and then comparing it to a LeBron in years 13 or 14? How objective are you being, really?

Yea, Hakeem lost to Dallas, and? Houston was a 46 win team and had no Ralph Sampson and lost to a 53 win team (3rd in ORTG, 6th in SRS), that made it to the WCF. Hakeem put up 38/17/2/2/3 on 64% TS%, but Hakeem was the problem? Like, really?

How did Hakeem do in the elimination game? 40/15/3/2/1 on 73% TS%, but you're out here acting like it's Hakeem's fault?

If Hakeem gets slack for losing to Seattle the next year, then what does LeBron get for this year? I'm all for looking at the negatives for a player's career, but let's at least be consistent. LeBron couldn't even make the play-in, let alone the playoffs.

And kuddos to pointing his 1990 series; yea that was bad....almost as bad as LeBron's 2011 finals, but I guess that doesn't count like this year's horrible season for LAL?

It's pretty much known to anyone who was from that era that if Hakeem retains his cast, inclusive of a healthy Sampson, that Houston likely wins 4-5 titles with Hakeem.

And yea, MJ retired. But guess what, the '95 Bulls aren't beating the '95 Rockets, even with peak MJ. So that would have tipped the scales in Hakeem's favor even more. I can almost guarantee the narrative is completely different if factors that were uncontrollable for Hakeem played out in his favor.

[Nowitness]

History isn't nice to Hakeem, it's the complete opposite. You're holding Hakeem to insane standards by focusing on his year 4 and then comparing it to a LeBron in years 13 or 14? How objective are you being, really?

Yea, Hakeem lost to Dallas, and? Houston was a 46 win team and had no Ralph Sampson and lost to a 53 win team (3rd in ORTG, 6th in SRS), that made it to the WCF. Hakeem put up 38/17/2/2/3 on 64% TS%, but Hakeem was the problem? Like, really?

How did Hakeem do in the elimination game? 40/15/3/2/1 on 73% TS%, but you're out here acting like it's Hakeem's fault?

If Hakeem gets slack for losing to Seattle the next year, then what does LeBron get for this year? I'm all for looking at the negatives for a player's career, but let's at least be consistent. LeBron couldn't even make the play-in, let alone the playoffs.

And kuddos to pointing his 1990 series; yea that was bad....almost as bad as LeBron's 2011 finals, but I guess that doesn't count like this year's horrible season for LAL?

It's pretty much known to anyone who was from that era that if Hakeem retains his cast, inclusive of a healthy Sampson, that Houston likely wins 4-5 titles with Hakeem.

And yea, MJ retired. But guess what, the '95 Bulls aren't beating the '95 Rockets, even with peak MJ. So that would have tipped the scales in Hakeem's favor even more. I can almost guarantee the narrative is completely different if factors that were uncontrollable for Hakeem played out in his favor.

You must be joking? There are plenty of people who think he is the best C ever, and many others who have him firmly in their top 10.

I'm using 2018 as an example, but we can just as easily use James in 06/07/09 when he was young to show that, like Hakeem he dominated the stat sheet, but also was able to elevate mediocre teams far. Hakeem when he failed to get past round 1 for 5 straight years was aged 25-30.

Imagine believing Hakeem was a definite top 10 player losing to those Mavs or Sonic teams. At least when Kobe failed to progress post Shaq he was losing to far superior teams. LBJ is in year 19, Hakeem was in year 5, after 3 years of college. That is peak/prime for 90% of players, meanwhile LBJ is at the stage of his career when 99% of players are long retired.

Until he converted to Islam Hakeem was an awful teammate and leader, who again got his, but failed to elevate.

Pointing out LBJ failed in 2011 is fair, you know what the difference is? It was the finals, not round 1. Same with 09, man gets killed whilst averaging 38-8-8, but it was still the ECF.

As for winning in 95 had MJ not retired, whilst likely it's conjecture. By that methodology, LBJ would have won in 15 with a healthy cast.

[HoopsNY]

You must be joking? There are plenty of people who think he is the best C ever, and many others who have him firmly in their top 10.

I typically don't see Hakeem ranked as the greatest center ever. Look at any all-time list; you'll see Shaq, Russell, Kareem, or Wilt ahead of Hakeem.


I'm using 2018 as an example, but we can just as easily use James in 06/07/09 when he was young to show that, like Hakeem he dominated the stat sheet, but also was able to elevate mediocre teams far. Hakeem when he failed to get past round 1 for 5 straight years was aged 25-30.

I should have clarified from the beginning that I don't believe Hakeem had a better career than LeBron. And you're not wrong about getting past the 1st round, but I believe some context should be considered given what was happening with the team the majority of those years. Your #2 and one of the best players in the league basically became phased out, injury prone, and useless...and 3 other players (2 starters) got kicked off the team and banned from the league. I think that would (somewhat) have an impact to the team and is very different to other circumstances.


Imagine believing Hakeem was a definite top 10 player losing to those Mavs or Sonic teams. At least when Kobe failed to progress post Shaq he was losing to far superior teams. LBJ is in year 19, Hakeem was in year 5, after 3 years of college. That is peak/prime for 90% of players, meanwhile LBJ is at the stage of his career when 99% of players are long retired.

LeBron being in year 19 is irrelevant. He produced 30/8/6/1/1 on 52%. We praise him for his production but somehow his production is irrelevant to the team success, despite playing with co-stars? Odd how that works for LeBron but Hakeem doesn't get a break for the demise of his team.

Funny you mention Kobe. Did Kobe perform to the level that Hakeem did in elimination games? How about finals games? How about the playoffs as a whole?


Until he converted to Islam Hakeem was an awful teammate and leader, who again got his, but failed to elevate.

You mean like how Kobe gave up in a game 7, refusing to shoot, and costing his team the entire series? You mean like how Kobe refused to stop shooting on a bad shoulder in the finals against Detroit and defaulting to a (better) teammate in Shaq?

Don't you see the coincidence (and absurdity) of your levies against Hakeem, which conveniently doesn't go for other ATGs?


Pointing out LBJ failed in 2011 is fair, you know what the difference is? It was the finals, not round 1. Same with 09, man gets killed whilst averaging 38-8-8, but it was still the ECF.

Who cares if it was the finals? He played on a superteam, so obviously he advanced that far. What's more important is that that 1990 series you're speaking about was against a 63 win team with the league's MVP. The fact that the Rockets (a 41 win team), lost to a 63 win team in the 1st round, isn't some shocking revelation. And it certainly shouldn't be used as some criticism to Hakeem, as if he was expected to lift his team above LA that year.


As for winning in 95 had MJ not retired, whilst likely it's conjecture. By that methodology, LBJ would have won in 15 with a healthy cast


And lost in '12 and '13 without a superteam. It all balances out.