How pathetic is it that Wilt only has 2 titles when he played in an 8 team league?

[TonyMontana]

I used to give Wilt the benefit of the doubt...Great physical gifts, great numbers, impressive records...

But as dominant as he was you mean to tell me out of 15 seasons he only won the title twice....in a league with 8 ****ing teams.

Honestly it is pathetic. When you look at Wilts character he was a huge narcissist. Only cared about himself and never wanted any responsibilities. Sleep around with tons of women, never building a family, never taking on the responsibility of others, padding his stats.

That now I look at the big figure it is painfully obvious that Wilt had little desire at all towards team accomplishment. The only person Wilt Chamberlain ever cared about was Wilt Chamberlain....as long as he got his numbers nothing ****ing mattered. He was happy as long as he could look good and have individual glory.

Discuss.

[moe94]

Tony is back.
or at least using this account

[Sarcastic]

Wilt > Lebron

[navy]

The funny thing is, while it is easier to win in an 8 team league it is also easier to lose if you arent on that winning team.

[kamil]

Wilt > Lebron

Quoted for truth.

And to piss off TonyMontana.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt played in an EIGHT team league...TWICE.
In NINE team leagues for FIVE seasons.
In 10 team leagues for ONE season.
In 12 team leagues for ONE season.
In 14 team leagues for TWO seasons.
And in 17 team leagues for THREE seasons.

[Fire Colangelo]

An 8 team league where every team is pretty much stacked. No shit it's a harder route to the championship than facing a 38 win team in the first round, 45 win team without their best player in the 2nd round, and a 49 win team in the conference finals, finally beating an old ass team with their franchise player being 37 years old.

[Droid101]

Why did the mods unban this complete idiot?

[TonyMontana]

An 8 team league where every team is pretty much stacked. No shit it's a harder route to the championship than facing a 38 win team in the first round, 45 win team without their best player in the 2nd round, and a 49 win team in the conference finals, finally beating an old ass team with their franchise player being 37 years old.

Each team may have had more individual talent, but that was made up by the fact that the NBA was still in it's early years and the talent pool of plaers worldwide was much smaller.

Wilts main competitor Bill Russell was able to win 11 rings in the same era. "Oh but Bob Cousy was an MVP player as well" The Celtics did not miss a single beat with the loss of any player...except for Russell.

Wilt only cared about being that highlight real player that scored all of the points. He did not care for winning, and no matter how talented he may or may not have been, the ultimate goal of sports is to win.

[ImKobe]

****. Not Tony Montana, anyone but Tony Montana. Jesus Christ.

[Marchesk]

Wilts main competitor Bill Russell was able to win 11 rings in the same era. "Oh but Bob Cousy was an MVP player as well" The Celtics did not miss a single beat with the loss of any player...except for Russell.

http://images.cdn.bigcartel.com/bigcartel/product_images/52441443/max_h-1000+max_w-1000/Havlicek_LS.png

[LAZERUSS]

Each team may have had more individual talent, but that was made up by the fact that the NBA was still in it's early years and the talent pool of plaers worldwide was much smaller.

Wilts main competitor Bill Russell was able to win 11 rings in the same era. "Oh but Bob Cousy was an MVP player as well" The Celtics did not miss a single beat with the loss of any player...except for Russell.

Wilt only cared about being that highlight real player that scored all of the points. He did not care for winning, and no matter how talented he may or may not have been, the ultimate goal of sports is to win.

Wilt's "HOF" "help" in the post-season:


Playoff FG%'s...

'60 Arizin .431 Gola .412
'61 Arizin .325 Gola .206
'62 Arizin .375 Gola .271
'63 Gola...played 21 games and was shipped out
'64 Thurmond .438
'65 Greer .455 Walker .480
'66 Greer .352 Cunningham .161 Walker .375
'67 Greer .429 Walker .467 Cunningham .376
'68 Greer .432 Walker .410 Cunningham broke wrist in first round (played 3 games)
'69 West .469 Baylor .385
'70 West .469 Baylor .466
'71 West and Baylor...both injured and do not play in playoffs. Goodrich .425
'72 Baylor retires after 9 nine games. West .376. Goodrich .445
'73 West .449 Goodrch .448

'62 Meschery was NOT an all-star. Shoots .397 in playoffs.
'63 Meschery (* All Star. Played 64 games. 16 ppg .425 FG% during season.)
'63 Rodgers (shoots .387 in regular season.
'64 Rodgers .329 in post-season.
'65 Jackson .338 in playoffs.

And how about these numbers:


Now the next set of numbers are Wilt's playoff eFG%'s, his teammates (collectively and without Wilt), and the post-season league averages.

59-60:
Wilt: .496
Team: .380
League: .402

60-61:
Wilt: .469
Team: .332
League: .403

61-62:
Wilt: .467
Team: .354
League: .411

63-64:
Wilt: .543
Team: .383
League: .420

64-65:
Wilt: .530
Team: .413
League: .429

65-66:
Wilt: .509
Team: .352
League: .440

66-67:
Wilt: .579
Team: .428
League: .424

67-68:
Wilt: .534
Team: .416
League: .446

68-69:
Wilt: .545
Team: .421
League: .431

69-70:
Wilt: .549
Team: .469
League: .455

70-71:
Wilt: .455
Team: .446
League: .445

71-72:
Wilt: .563
Team: .414
League: .439

72-73:
Wilt: .552
Team: .446
League: .451

And with practically no help in the majority of his post-seasons, Chamberlain was able to get to 12 Conference Finals, SIX Finals, lose to eventual champion TEN times, lose FIVE Game Seven's (four of which were by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points), and win TWO RINGS.

Now, look closely at those numbers above, and you tell me just how he did it...

[TonyMontana]

And with practically no help in the majority of his post-seasons, Chamberlain was able to get to 12 Conference Finals, SIX Finals, lose to eventual champion TEN times, lose FIVE Game Seven's (four of which were by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points), and win TWO RINGS.

Now, look closely at those numbers above, and you tell me just how he did it...

So you mean Wilt did fine until he had to play the only real competition from that era?(Russell and the Celtics) No one else from that era ever gets mentioned. And for good reason.

And are we going to ignore that difference between Chamberlains regular season and playoff numbers? Guess when you have to play ACTUAL COMPETITION rather than random construction worker phags the numbers take a hit.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I thought Wilt was on MJ/KAJ tier before i saw some tape on him..........................his teams strategy was to get the ball to him every possession teams just said fck it let him get his and played 45mins a game................its no coincidence that he won his 1st ring when he dialed back his scoring by like 25ppg.........inflated stats

[Marchesk]

I thought Wilt was on MJ/KAJ tier before i saw some tape on him..........................his teams strategy was to get the ball to him every possession teams just said fck it let him get his and played 45mins a game................its no coincidence that he won his 1st ring when he dialed back his scoring by like 25ppg.........inflated stats

So 24/24/8 with prolly 7 blocks on 68% for a 68 win title team that beat the Celtics in 5 games isn't GOAT tier? :coleman:

[LAZERUSS]

So you mean Wilt did fine until he had to play the only real competition from that era?(Russell and the Celtics) No one else from that era ever gets mentioned. And for good reason.

And are we going to ignore that difference between Chamberlains regular season and playoff numbers? Guess when you have to play ACTUAL COMPETITION rather than random construction worker phags the numbers take a hit.

A Prime Chamberlain SLAUGHTERED his "HOF" peers...Reed, Russell, Bellamy, and Thurmond in his H2H's, INCLUDING the playoffs. just massacred them.

But not only that, a PEAK Kareem played FOUR years IN the WILT-era, and faced many of the same centers that a Prime Wilt faced, and was LIGHT YEARS behind Chamberlain's domination of ALL of them. Just look up the H2H's my friend. A PRIME Chamberlain was the most dominant player in the history of the game.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

So 24/24/8 with prolly 7 blocks on 68% for a 68 win title team that beat the Celtics in 5 games isn't GOAT tier? :coleman:
It is but the problem was he found out too late. Wilt is still top 5 but he not on the level of consistency as MJ and KAJ

[KevinNYC]

I used to give Wilt the benefit of the doubt...Great physical gifts, great numbers, impressive records...

But as dominant as he was you mean to tell me out of 15 seasons he only won the title twice....in a league with 8 ****ing teams.

Honestly it is pathetic. When you look at Wilts character he was a huge narcissist. Only cared about himself and never wanted any responsibilities. Sleep around with tons of women, never building a family, never taking on the responsibility of others, padding his stats.

That now I look at the big figure it is painfully obvious that Wilt had little desire at all towards team accomplishment. The only person Wilt Chamberlain ever cared about was Wilt Chamberlain....as long as he got his numbers nothing ****ing mattered. He was happy as long as he could look good and have individual glory.

Discuss.

Take today's NBA.

Get rid of all the scrubs first.

Then get rid of every below average player.

Then get rid of another 84 players.

Once you've gotten rid of 74% of today's players, you should have 96 players left.

Now divy up those guys and see how the competitive the league is with just 8 teams.

[TonyMontana]

I thought Wilt was on MJ/KAJ tier before i saw some tape on him..........................his teams strategy was to get the ball to him every possession teams just said fck it let him get his and played 45mins a game................its no coincidence that he won his 1st ring when he dialed back his scoring by like 25ppg.........inflated stats

Not to mention he had absolutely no post moves at all.

The fact that he was able to just stand under the net, catch passes,toss the ball in the air and put up those huge scoring numbers really just speaks about the era. Literally noone had the length or size to contest him and noone even fought him for position. Wilt was really a talentless loser who was lucky to be born with that size in that era.

And yeah your right, he was at his best when he stopped padding his stats and learned how to play center like Russell(but with more scoring). There is no doubt this guy had the physical gifts, but absolutely nothing was there mentally and he had no skill. He would just be a random shot blocker/rebounder/finish open dunks in todays era. NO ****ing post moves at all.

[LAZERUSS]

Take today's NBA.

Get rid of all the scrubs first.

Then get rid of every below average player.

Then get rid of another 84 players.

Once you've gotten rid of 74% of today's players, you should have 96 players left.

Now divy up those guys and see how the competitive the league is with just 8 teams.

Bill Russell Talking to MJ (and I am paraphrasing)...

"If you were playing in my era, Paxson would never have hit that game-winning shot."

MJ, "Why not?"

"Because he would have been watching the game from the seats."

In other words, Paxson was not a good enough player to crack the 80 players who did make NBA rosters back then.

[LAZERUSS]

Not to mention he had absolutely no post moves at all.

The fact that he was able to just stand under the net, catch passes,toss the ball in the air and put up those huge scoring numbers really just speaks about the era. Literally noone had the length or size to contest him and noone even fought him for position. Wilt was really a talentless loser who was lucky to be born with that size in that era.

And yeah your right, he was at his best when he stopped padding his stats and learned how to play center like Russell(but with more scoring). There is no doubt this guy had the physical gifts, but absolutely nothing was there mentally and he had no skill. He would just be a random shot blocker/rebounder/finish open dunks in todays era. NO ****ing post moves at all.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I'll let CavsFan make a complete fool out of you.

Oh, and while you are at, care to post those "pace" numbers that only YOU have from that period?

[Marchesk]

It is but the problem was he found out too late. Wilt is still top 5 but he not on the level of consistency as MJ and KAJ

Fair enough. I have no problem with Wilt at 3. Some of that was coaching though. He was told to score that much.

[TonyMontana]

Take today's NBA.

Get rid of all the scrubs first.

Then get rid of every below average player.

Then get rid of another 84 players.

Once you've gotten rid of 74% of today's players, you should have 96 players left.

Now divy up those guys and see how the competitive the league is with just 8 teams.

I've already explained that's not how it works.

More people play basketball today = larger talent pool
International presence = non existant back then

If you weren't born with freak size, you didn't bother with basketball in the 60s. These 6'2, 6'3, 6'4 players today? They were all playing football, baseball or something else. Today more people play than ever. That is part of why the point guard position is so deep today. Point guard height is not uncommon so you are seeing the most talented players possible due to all potential athletes being exposed to the game.

[Marchesk]

I've already explained that's not how it works.

More people play basketball today = larger talent pool
International presence = non existant back then

If you weren't born with freak size, you didn't bother with basketball in the 60s. These 6'2, 6'3, 6'4 players today? They were all playing football, baseball or something else. Today more people play than ever. That is part of why the point guard position is so deep today. Point guard height is not uncommon so you are seeing the most talented players possible due to all potential athletes being exposed to the game.

http://activeforlife.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/nash-steve-612x300.jpg

[TonyMontana]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I'll let CavsFan make a complete fool out of you.

Oh, and while you are at, care to post those "pace" numbers that only YOU have from that period?

CavsFan is one of the most mentally weak posters on ISH. It is no surprise he admires Wilt.

He tries to troll posters bottom tier posters, yet when he is confronted by someone who can own him he cowers away. Just like Wilt owning the scrubs and getting raped by Russell every year.

And honestly his youtube channel dedicated to a sports player who he's never even seen play live is pathetic. That hobby is on par with those dudes that collect Star Trek collectibles. I'm sure when he tells girls about that hobby their cooter becomes drier than the Sahara desert.

[KevinNYC]

Bill Russell Talking to MJ (and I am paraphrasing)...

"If you were playing in my era, Paxson would never have hit that game-winning shot."

MJ, "Why not?"

"Because he would have been watching the game from the seats."

In other words, Paxson was not a good enough player to crack the 80 players who did make NBA rosters back then.

I read a book on the 1986 Celtics that came out not too long ago and was surprised by all the 80's players and coaches and writers from both eras said how watered down the league was in the 1990's from expansion.

[TonyMontana]

http://activeforlife.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/nash-steve-612x300.jpg

Steve Nash is a great example.

If he was born 40 years earlier he would have never been exposed to the game since he is from Canada(born in south africa) and has a more modest build about him that wouldn't stand out to any coach.

[Marchesk]

Steve Nash is a great example.

If he was born 40 years earlier he would have never been exposed to the game since he is from Canada(born in south africa) and has a more modest build about him that wouldn't stand out to any coach.

Sure, but then you can't just go say that guys like West and Cousy would never make it today just because they're shorter white guys.

West wasn't really that short as he's more Wade's actual height, and he had long arms, but you get the point.

It also highlights how athleticism isn't everything. Nash is no super athletic freak at PG like Westbrook or Rose, yet he won 2 MVPs over guys like Kobe and Lebron.

[TonyMontana]

Sure, but then you can't just go say that guys like West and Cousy would never make it today just because they're shorter white guys.

West wasn't really that short as he's more Wade's actual height, and he had long arms, but you get the point.

It also highlights how athleticism isn't everything. Nash is no super athletic freak at PG like Westbrook or Rose, yet he won 2 MVPs over guys like Kobe and Lebron.

Athletisicm definetly isn't everything.

But if your not athletic you better have the skill to back it up. Steve Nashs ball handling, shooting, and passing is light years beyond anyone from that era. Do I have to post that gif of Cousys ball handling ability or can I save myself the google search?

[jongib369]

Only an idiot would look at it so narrow minded, and I can tell Tony isn't one. They're just ****ing with you Lazeruss...Even if he doesn't believe Wilt is that good, no one makes arguments like that

[Marchesk]

Athletisicm definetly isn't everything.

But if your not athletic you better have the skill to back it up. Steve Nashs ball handling, shooting, and passing is light years beyond anyone from that era. Do I have to post that gif of Cousys ball handling ability or can I save myself the google search?

That does look bad, but come on now. I could go find gifs of Perkins looking bad, then ask if a title contending team from the 60s would have a starting center like that.

Anyway, Cavs has youtube videos of assist and dunk highlights from the 60s which look a lot better than that Cousy ankle-breaking gif.

[TonyMontana]

That does look bad, but come on now. I could go find gifs of Perkins looking bad, then ask if a title contending team from the 60s would have a starting center like that.

Anyway, Cavs has youtube videos of assist and dunk highlights from the 60s which look a lot better than that Cousy ankle-breaking gif.

Perkins is a known scrub and everyone knows he sucks.

Cousy is considered the top guard from his era.

Big Difference. The fact is that guardplay from the 60s-present is a HUGE difference. And no it's not because they are better athletes and their all "short white guys". It is because they are simply more skilled. The dribbling and shooting abilities in particular.

The difference in centers is smaller since the only real factor you need to be a useful center is to have elite height and wingspan, two factors one is born with and cannot alter. For example elite height and wingspan are all you need to be a rim protecting elite rebounder.

But when you look at skill there is also a gap. Wilts "postgame" is extremely cringeworthy. Lots of awkward looking bankshot fadeaways(that almost always miss). I've seen the film and he has no real moves.

[Marchesk]

But when you look at skill there is also a gap. Wilts "postgame" is extremely cringeworthy. Lots of awkward looking bankshot fadeaways(that almost always miss). I've seen the film and he has no real moves.

I assume you've seen the Kansas NCAA highlights of Wilt which were extremely impressive. He was running the floor like a guard, displaying excellent shooting touch from the foul line in, demonstrated exceptional hands, good passing, and elite rebounding and shot blocking.

There's the one where he grabs a shot out of the air with one hand, dribbles past half court, jumps up and makes a Harlem Globetrotter-like pass which becomes part of a give and go where he ends up laying it in at the rim. Cavs posted that gif a week or so ago. I can't find it.

Sure, Wilt doesn't look like Hakeem. Neither did Shaq, but he didn't need to. The question you should be asking yourself is why this guy didn't come anywhere near putting up the kinds of numbers Wilt did:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WPxPfxWt8vQ/UQyTpLxGKUI/AAAAAAAAEFo/AgnZwjF2kL4/s800/GusJohnsonDunk.gif

[Marchesk]

Or this guy, since he's a center and Gus was a forward.

http://www.rareink.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x750/4ef10740393c2600b98a168899e16ad9/t/h/thurmond_photo2_main.jpg

[knicksman]

So does this mean OP is now a durant stan. Coz im sure lebron is just a wilt clone

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron 0 rings without teaming up

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NtV1JW2bx90/TnzSYsDhKqI/AAAAAAAAAjk/2nStUj-hjAU/s1600/s100603_004-wilt-russellpg-horizontal.jpeg

[sundizz]

Bill Russell Talking to MJ (and I am paraphrasing)...

"If you were playing in my era, Paxson would never have hit that game-winning shot."

MJ, "Why not?"

"Because he would have been watching the game from the seats."

In other words, Paxson was not a good enough player to crack the 80 players who did make NBA rosters back then.

This is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. Way way way way way way more kids/people wanted to be a NBA player in 1990's than in 1960's.

So picking 80 out 600,000 possible players makes for a much lower average skill level than picking 250 out of 10,000,000. Back then their was literally almost no international players, barely any development, no AAU, no year round development etc. The 250 players that made the league in 1990's had to beat out million and million of other people that would love to be in the NBA. In 1960 barely any 8-12 year olds kid would of said I want to be a NBA player as their dream job.

[oarabbus]

Lebron 0 rings without teaming up

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NtV1JW2bx90/TnzSYsDhKqI/AAAAAAAAAjk/2nStUj-hjAU/s1600/s100603_004-wilt-russellpg-horizontal.jpeg


It's not like Russell had a bunch of hall of famers on his team, though.

[TonyMontana]

I assume you've seen the Kansas NCAA highlights of Wilt which were extremely impressive. He was running the floor like a guard, displaying excellent shooting touch from the foul line in, demonstrated exceptional hands, good passing, and elite rebounding and shot blocking.

There's the one where he grabs a shot out of the air with one hand, dribbles past half court, jumps up and makes a Harlem Globetrotter-like pass which becomes part of a give and go where he ends up laying it in at the rim. Cavs posted that gif a week or so ago. I can't find it.

Sure, Wilt doesn't look like Hakeem. Neither did Shaq, but he didn't need to. The question you should be asking yourself is why this guy didn't come anywhere near putting up the kinds of numbers Wilt did:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WPxPfxWt8vQ/UQyTpLxGKUI/AAAAAAAAEFo/AgnZwjF2kL4/s800/GusJohnsonDunk.gif

Lets take a few steps back here.

I never denied Wilts natural born abiliies(size, wingspan, athletisicm). Few could match his god given gifts.

Instead what is being brought into question is his character, his skills, and ultimately why he won so few championships in a relatively small league where there was little competition. Russell has 11(!!!) championships. Do you ever see ANY one in todays era with 30 NBA teams getting that many championships? And all of them were as a FRANCHISE PLAYER, not some Robert Horry or Kobe shit. The league was weak, that is not up for debate.


Or this guy, since he's a center and Gus was a forward.

http://www.rareink.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x750/4ef10740393c2600b98a168899e16ad9/t/h/thurmond_photo2_main.jpg

What is this picture supposed to mean? Is this mans vascularity supposed to be impress me? He looks extremely unhealthy. Thin as ****, very frail, my dick is thicker than one of his legs... OH and am I the only one that's going to point out that he is ****ing bald? No not shaved head bald. No not receding hairline bald. But ****ing bald.

Lets look up the measurements.

225 phucking pounds

No wonder it was so easy for 300+ pound Chamberlain to just sit under the rim with no opposition fighting for positioning.

[TonyMontana]

Lebron 0 rings without teaming up

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NtV1JW2bx90/TnzSYsDhKqI/AAAAAAAAAjk/2nStUj-hjAU/s1600/s100603_004-wilt-russellpg-horizontal.jpeg

Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell look healthier at that age than Thurmond does "in his prime".

[Marchesk]

Do you ever see ANY one in todays era with 30 NBA teams getting that many championships? And all of them were as a FRANCHISE PLAYER, not some Robert Horry or Kobe shit. The league was weak, that is not up for debate.

Jordan's Bulls would have had a shot at 8 or 9 titles, had he not gone off to play baseball and then retired a second time, leading to Pippen leaving and the Bulls rebuilding. They probably would have lost to Orlando or Houston at some point, but they had a shot.

[tragicbronson]

Jordan's Bulls would have had a shot at 8 or 9 titles, had he not gone off to play baseball and then retired a second time, leading to Pippen leaving and the Bulls rebuilding. They probably would have lost to Orlando or Houston at some point, but they had a shot.

http://www.joesportsfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/the-weekly-hypothetical-title.jpg