The Wilt Chamberlain Offensive Scouting Report Project Thread:

[CavaliersFTW]

Here's the latest version, 45 minutes contains scoring plays from ALL levels of competition (HS, NCAA, Kutchers, NBA)

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GFVaCgXG_NU/U1PpKX6HtSI/AAAAAAAAFEg/B4aajn8RNmg/s640/Youtubethumbnail11.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBX9ikNzEk




And this is the old NBA-only version:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6UN1PuHaM5Q/Ux1GigjQtsI/AAAAAAAAE_0/LKavG92ks6g/s400/wilt%2520scouting%2520video.jpg
http://youtu.be/2eNdapKU494


Inspired by Fpliii, I'm working on a video that will cover the full range of Wilt's offensive abilities that have been captured on film.

Wilt made 12,681 regular season field goals
Wilt made 1,425 playoff field goals
Wilt made 72 all star game field goals

A total of 14,178 field goals made in the NBA. Of these I will try to gather a count of how many are captured on film and in my archive.

I will need/use this thread to discuss with Fpliii and others willing to offer input to flush out details on categorizing plays and figuring out how best to structure the video as I'm working on it.

Physical Tools and Athleticism
(intro and what tools he had to work with physically, which shaped his game)

Left block scoring ~87 NBA FGM on film (starts at 5:23)

Right block scoring ~67 NBA FGM on film (starts at 11:27)

Lobs - Deep catches - Transition ~59 NBA FGM on film (starts at 17:58)

Two Person Game ~52 NBA FGM on film (starts at 22:28)

Offensive Rebounding ~70 NBA FGM on film (starts at 27:08)

I've counted/sorted ~335 NBA field goals exist on film... or an estimated 2.36% of his career. Or another way of looking at it, approximately 28 random games worth of baskets.

[CavaliersFTW]

Currently wondering if I should include all his passing under 2 man game category, or perhaps even have a whole separate half of the video for passing and split passing and scoring entirely

[RightToCensor]

http://www.dmvfollowers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/javale.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

Fpliii and Phila what do you think about these categories and subcategories so far?

[PHILA]

Currently wondering if I should include all his passing under 2 man game category, or perhaps even have a whole separate half of the video for passing and split passing and scoring entirely
It depends if you want to make a distinction between the various types of passes he made. With the Lakers especially he used the behind the back pass quite a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwCmKvHJNoQ&t=11m44s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0faQ-6RJyA&t=3m37s


Even in the '67 game footage he was positioned at the mid-post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiVAFBZzTac&t=5m36s


There was also the 3 man triangle with Greer & Walker, note how the defense shifts with the pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngg3owcJl1g&t=49s



Fpliii and Phila what do you think about these categories and subcategories so far?
This is a good idea based on the available footage, but I am just not sure if it will tell all that much. As you have said in the other thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9401682&postcount=69), we are "looking through a small window".

[CavaliersFTW]

It depends if you want to make a distinction between the various types of passes he made. With the Lakers especially he used the behind the back pass quite a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwCmKvHJNoQ&t=11m44s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0faQ-6RJyA&t=3m37s


Even in the '67 game footage he was positioned at the mid-post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiVAFBZzTac&t=5m36s


There was also the 3 man triangle with Greer & Walker, note how the defense shifts with the pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngg3owcJl1g&t=49s



This is a good idea based on the available footage, but I am just not sure if it will tell all that much. As you have said in the other thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9401682&postcount=69), we are "looking through a small window".
We are looking through a small window, but this will definitely be a tool to show a wider audience much more about Wilt than they otherwise would know. His bread and butter moves we've got plenty of on film. The small window makes finding his rarer more creative ways of scoring slim pickings though. There's a couple of his moves we've only got 1 or 2 examples of, he executes them with quickness and good form as if it were comitted to muscle memory like any other of his post moves, yet the move clearly isn't well documented on the film of him available. An example would be his left side jump hook or his sweeping hook, or his left side baseline spin. Heck even his right side spin we've only got on film a few times. But he clearly had them down in his repertoire of how to beat certain types of defense being thrown his way. Moves like those indicate there may be other moves that simply have gone undocumented, given the very small percentage of his field goals that exist on film. Still though, would leaving Fatal9s 2 minute 'Wilt post up skill' video as the only source for people to see Wilt posting up be a better option? I think not, I'd like to make the video just to show clips like those do not encapsulate Wilt's ability to post up.

[PHILA]

I think not, I'd like to make the video just to show clips like those do not encapsulate Wilt's ability to post up.

Yes, that is a good point. But most of the posters who cite that (unlisted) video already have a bias against Chamberlain and will look for anything to use against him.

[fpliii]

Currently wondering if I should include all his passing under 2 man game category, or perhaps even have a whole separate half of the video for passing and split passing and scoring entirely
Good list, I'm not sure. Personally I wouldn't mind interweaving them (i.e. left block scoring followed by left block passing, etc.) but you raise a good point about keeping them separate. I'm not quite sure, tbh.

Fpliii and Phila what do you think about these categories and subcategories so far?Great stuff. Just wondering, do you have any footage of Wilt shooting from the high post? If so, where would you want to put it?

[fpliii]

Yes, that is a good point. But most of the posters who cite that (unlisted) video already have a bias against Chamberlain and will look for anything to use against him.
Perhaps some have made their minds up, but a complete scouting video will be very useful to some. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know for me personally this will be huge in evaluating Wilt's offensive game. This kind of project is unprecedented IMO, could be a huge asset to the community.

[CavaliersFTW]

Good list, I'm not sure. Personally I wouldn't mind interweaving them (i.e. left block scoring followed by left block passing, etc.) but you raise a good point about keeping them separate. I'm not quite sure, tbh.
Great stuff. Just wondering, do you have any footage of Wilt shooting from the high post? If so, where would you want to put it?
So far I've come across no NBA footage of him shooting from the high post as far as 'setting up' there. He does make some passes and set screens, but as far as scoring he'll just pick and roll or be a backdoor finisher inside from there a few times. For example in one play where one teammate is already in the right block for spacing Chamberlain went up top, and he's stepping in and out of the paint for a few moments at the free throw line looking for his teammate to see him, and to avoid a 3 second violation, then once he has an opening he makes eye contact with his teammate who was in the post and barrels right down the middle - get's the hand off and jams.

He actually does shoot from the high post in NCAA footage at least a few times. In Wilt's 100 point game the 4th quarter announcer says one of his shots was taken from the top of circle too, so he may have rarely took that shot in the NBA too it just doesn't exist on film, but it also could have just been where he releases his fadeaway shot from the right block, because he fades into the high post for that shot on the right side. But he catches the ball and starts the play in the low post so that's what I'm counting those plays as.

[sd3035]

The Wilt Chamberlain Offensive Scouting Report Project Thread:

Man among children

[La Frescobaldi]

So far I've come across no NBA footage of him shooting from the high post as far as 'setting up' there. He does make some passes and set screens, but as far as scoring he'll just pick and roll or be a backdoor finisher inside from there a few times. For example in one play where one teammate is already in the right block for spacing Chamberlain went up top, and he's stepping in and out of the paint for a few moments at the free throw line looking for his teammate to see him, and to avoid a 3 second violation, then once he has an opening he makes eye contact with his teammate who was in the post and barrels right down the middle - get's the hand off and jams.

He actually does shoot from the high post in NCAA footage at least a few times. In Wilt's 100 point game the 4th quarter announcer says one of his shots was taken from the top of circle too, so he may have rarely took that shot in the NBA too it just doesn't exist on film, but it also could have just been where he releases his fadeaway shot from the right block, because he fades into the high post for that shot on the right side. But he catches the ball and starts the play in the low post so that's what I'm counting those plays as.
When he was on Sixers Wilt had a jumper in the paint. It was like an 8 footer, inside the free throw line and it was a straight up or a fadeaway.

I've never seen any video clips anywhere of that shot but a few of us guys have distinct memories of him shooting it over Willis Reed and Bells on the Knicks and LeRoy Ellis on the Bullets. It wasn't anything amazing, like a Dirk ostrich move, you know?
But it was a real solid part of his game.

It was a counter that he used instead of the finger roll/dunk from the right block.
Similar to his left block moves, where you didn't know if he was going up and under, or power dunk, or spin, or step back and turnaround fadeaway - but this was done from the right block, where over on that side his main "go-to" moves were the finger roll or dunk. But instead, he would sort of lurch out of the finger roll, take a quick step forward (toward the free throw line), and instead of the pass out to the guard, he would spin back around to face the hoop while leaping for the high release jumper.

He had such a vertical that his release was real high but that shot did get blocked by Bells according to my friend Joey (shameless Knicks fan notwithstanding).

edit ~ also I may have missed it in OP but do you have his finger roll listed? His most famous shot - it was actually a counter and absolutely unstoppable.

[fpliii]

Good stuff, both of you. CavsFTW, do you have any 8ft-ish jumpers from the paint that Fresco mentioned? Or do all of those plays originate on the block?

Also regarding the finger roll, in which categories did you mix it?

[trueDS]

Yes, that is a good point. But most of the posters who cite that (unlisted) video already have a bias against Chamberlain and will look for anything to use against him.

Oh c'mon, we could as well tell that you or CavaliersFTW have agenda, pro Wilt bias and no presented facts will change your opinion. It was discussed many times on realGM and most better posters, from polite ones like DoctorMJ, through Elgee, Chicago76, mysticcbb or fatal, to emotional ones like Bastillon agrees that Wilt was limited scorer and his impact on the game was lower than his box score numbers suggest.

[CavaliersFTW]

Oh c'mon, we could as well tell that you or CavaliersFTW have agenda, pro Wilt bias and no presented facts will change your opinion. It was discussed many times on realGM and most better posters, from polite ones like DoctorMJ, through Elgee, Chicago76, mysticcbb or fatal, to emotional ones like Bastillon agrees that Wilt was limited scorer and his impact on the game was lower than his box score numbers suggest.
Literally laughed out loud, a bunch of nerds on realgm convinced themselves Wilt Chamberlain 'was a limited scorer', aint that the cutest thing I ever heard :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

When he was on Sixers Wilt had a jumper in the paint. It was like an 8 footer, inside the free throw line and it was a straight up or a fadeaway.

I've never seen any video clips anywhere of that shot but a few of us guys have distinct memories of him shooting it over Willis Reed and Bells on the Knicks and LeRoy Ellis on the Bullets. It wasn't anything amazing, like a Dirk ostrich move, you know?
But it was a real solid part of his game.

It was a counter that he used instead of the finger roll/dunk from the right block.
Similar to his left block moves, where you didn't know if he was going up and under, or power dunk, or spin, or step back and turnaround fadeaway - but this was done from the right block, where over on that side his main "go-to" moves were the finger roll or dunk. But instead, he would sort of lurch out of the finger roll, take a quick step forward (toward the free throw line), and instead of the pass out to the guard, he would spin back around to face the hoop while leaping for the high release jumper.

He had such a vertical that his release was real high but that shot did get blocked by Bells according to my friend Joey (shameless Knicks fan notwithstanding).

edit ~ also I may have missed it in OP but do you have his finger roll listed? His most famous shot - it was actually a counter and absolutely unstoppable.


Good stuff, both of you. CavsFTW, do you have any 8ft-ish jumpers from the paint that Fresco mentioned? Or do all of those plays originate on the block?

Also regarding the finger roll, in which categories did you mix it?

I've definitely got his 8 foot jumper from the right block, prior to footage of his championship sixer seasons (and all footage after) he seems to have taken that shot quite a bit as I have several examples of it, however all of them are fading away none are a straight up variant. The finger roll will be put into its appropriate foot work and block side categories, I will try to cluster all similar executed shots down to the fakes and footwork

[fpliii]

I've definitely got his 8 foot jumper from the right block, prior to footage of his championship sixer seasons (and all footage after) he seems to have taken that shot quite a bit as I have several examples of it, however all of them are fading away none are a straight up variant. The finger roll will be put into its appropriate foot work and block side categories, I will try to cluster all similar executed shots down to the fakes and footwork
Are any from just inside the free-throw line though as Fresco mentioned? If not, in that case, do you think it's worth it to include the NCAA footage of shots from the high post?

You could put overlay text saying NCAA Footage and note in the description that it was a shot he used (particularly with the Sixers), but there isn't any available footage at the moment.

I can understand if you don't want to do that though, since it's an NBA mix, and college footage wouldn't be against the same defenses.

[CavaliersFTW]

Are any from just inside the free-throw line though as Fresco mentioned? If not, in that case, do you think it's worth it to include the NCAA footage of shots from the high post?

You could put overlay text saying NCAA Footage and note in the description that it was a shot he used (particularly with the Sixers), but there isn't any available footage at the moment.

I can understand if you don't want to do that though, since it's an NBA mix, and college footage wouldn't be against the same defenses.
I'm open to the idea, we will see once I get all his nba footage in place I'll skim thru his NCAA clips and if I see shots being taken absent from the nba mix I may upload some to show u guys and ask if u think it should be included. Heck he shoots some jays from beyond the ft line in college if I'm not mistaken not just from inside

[fpliii]

I'm open to the idea, we will see once I get all his nba footage in place I'll skim thru his NCAA clips and if I see shots being taken absent from the nba mix I may upload some to show u guys and ask if u think it should be included. Heck he shoots some jays from beyond the ft line in college if I'm not mistaken not just from inside
Sounds good. As I said though, be sure to put some text in the corner while the college highlights are playing.

Regarding the shots from beyond the line, did he take those in the pros? If so you should perhaps consider giving them the same treatment (again, with some overlay in the corner saying something like "NCAA Footage" with a note in the description). If not, probably leave them out. I'm interested in what Laz, Fresco, and PHILA have to say though, perhaps they know more about whether or not he took those shots in the NBA.

[LAZERUSS]

CavsFan...

IMHO, I would definitely add Wilt's college footage in your work. I know the ridiculous Wilt-bashers will scoff at his competition, but as I have stated before, would a world record time in the 100 be dismissed because of lower competition? Furthermore, we KNOW that an NBA Chamberlain just slaughtered his HOF peers on a nightly basis.

The fact was, there is practically no known footage of an early NBA Chamberlain. BUT, in the limited college footage that exists, Wilt is seen hitting TWO jump shots from beyond the FT line, as well as numerous 10-12 turn-arounds.

And we KNOW this much...

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/quotes.html




Carl Braun said "He [Wilt] disorganizes you under the basket the same way [as Bill Russell, on defense]. With Wilt, of course, there's that offense on top of it, which is better than Russell's. He hit on all those jumpers."
"Yes, Wilt hit on those jumpers...Wilt did come into the league with a good touch from the outside, which made his early scoring that much more significant. He wasn't just dunking the ball then."

--Red Holzman. A View from the Bench. P.70


And in his 62 ASG, he was hitting several shots from 10-15 feet as well.

Clearly, he came into the league taking considerably more extended shots, than later in his career. His eFG%'s were affected, but then again, at that time, EVERYONE's was. It was a much more brutal game back then. (Incidently, in case a Wilt-basher jumps in...the NBA shot a higher FT% in the 58-59 season, than it did just last year.)

Obviously, as the years went by, he became more selective, but he was still highly skilled thru his 65-66 season, which was arguably his greatest "scoring season"...he just killed Bellamy, Thurmond, and Russell in nearly every H2H, and given the fact that he had averaged 40 ppg against Reed the season before, I think it could be argued that he was at his peak.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW,

Chamberlain had the HIGH scoring game in every season from '62 thru '69. So if any Wilt-basher claims that Wilt somehow lost his scoring ability (as an SI article reported, and which hit the newstands the night after Chamberlain put up the first of TWO 60+ point games in a matter of a few days)...they would be WRONG. Even as late as his 69-70 season, when his new coach, Joe Mullaney asked him to become a scorer again, he put up 32.2 ppg on .579 in his first nine games, and just before he shredded his knee.

[fpliii]

CavsFan...

IMHO, I would definitely add Wilt's college footage in your work. I know the ridiculous Wilt-bashers will scoff at his competition, but as I have stated before, would a world record time in the 100 be dismissed because of lower competition? Furthermore, we KNOW that an NBA Chamberlain just slaughtered his HOF peers on a nightly basis.

The fact was, there is practically no known footage of an early NBA Chamberlain. BUT, in the limited college footage that exists, Wilt is seen hitting TWO jump shots from beyond the FT line, as well as numerous 10-12 turn-arounds.

And we KNOW this much...

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/quotes.html



And in his 62 ASG, he was hitting several shots from 10-15 feet as well.

Clearly, he came into the league taking considerably more extended shots, than later in his career. His eFG%'s were affected, but then again, at that time, EVERYONE's was. It was a much more brutal game back then. (Incidently, in case a Wilt-basher jumps in...the NBA shot a higher FT% in the 58-59 season, than it did just last year.)

Obviously, as the years went by, he became more selective, but he was still highly skilled thru his 65-66 season, which was arguably his greatest "scoring season"...he just killed Bellamy, Thurmond, and Russell in nearly every H2H, and given the fact that he had averaged 40 ppg against Reed the season before, I think it could be argued that he was at his peak.

I agree now that the college footage of jumpers should be included, but there definitely needs to be some notation that that portion is from his college days, either as an overlay on the video or in the description. Also, the footage should only be used for types of shots/plays for which we don't have any other footage available.

[CavaliersFTW]

I agree now that the college footage of jumpers should be included, but there definitely needs to be some notation that that portion is from his college days, either as an overlay on the video or in the description. Also, the footage should only be used for types of shots/plays for which we don't have any other footage available.
If I do include it it most certainly will have it's own notification in bold text indicating it is not NBA footage. It begs the question, should I include footage of college passing too? I have footage of Wilt running the break off a rebound in college and doing a behind the back pass that leads directly to an assist. Not just any old Zydruns Ilgauskus sized player can do that :lol

[LAZERUSS]

I agree now that the college footage of jumpers should be included, but there definitely needs to be some notation that that portion is from his college days, either as an overlay on the video or in the description. Also, the footage should only be used for types of shots/plays for which we don't have any other footage available.

I don't have a problem with a "notation" but when a player is clearly comfortable taking, and MAKING, those shots, well, it is what it was.

BTW, his FT shooting form was much better in that college footage, too, and in fact, he shot over 60% in college, and considering that he shot .613 in his 61-62 season, I strongly suspect it was very similar then, as well.

[LAZERUSS]

If I do include it it most certainly will have it's own notification in bold text indicating it is not NBA footage. It begs the question, should I include footage of college passing too? I have footage of Wilt running the break off a rebound in college and doing a behind the back pass that leads directly to an assist. Not just any old Zydruns Ilgauskus sized player can do that :lol

Again, WHY NOT? If he had jumped over the top of the backboard in college footage, but we never saw it again in the NBA, in the 2% of the footage that exists, would we make the assumption that he didn't do it in the NBA?

Oh, and if you BOLD TEXT it...also BOLD TEXT that comment from Red Holzman. Clearly, the assumption has to be that he was routinely making 15+ foot shots in his early NBA career.

[fpliii]

If I do include it it most certainly will have it's own notification in bold text indicating it is not NBA footage. It begs the question, should I include footage of college passing too? I have footage of Wilt running the break off a rebound in college and doing a behind the back pass that leads directly to an assist. Not just any old Zydruns Ilgauskus sized player can do that :lol
lol up to you, but most importantly, we want it to be representative of his NBA offense (we have quotes vouching for the longer jumpers, but I don't know if we do with regards to the passing). If you think it fits in go for it. He probably had even more handling/passing in his Globies days, I wonder how often he utilized that and other such skills/plays in the pros?

BTW, you don't necessarily need a big bold notation. If you want an overlay, a light watermark would suffice I think. Or you could bold it in the description.

:confusedshrug:

[LAZERUSS]

Incidently, if you are going to make a notation about his college skills, I would add a comment that, the following footage only depicts about 2% of Chamberlain's NBA career, and in fact, footage from his greatest games is virtually non-existent.

[LAZERUSS]

It would be tempting to add Fatal's FLAWED two minute POS video to the beginning of YOUR work...just to make him look like a complete fool.

[fpliii]

http://omgili.com/thread/jHIAmI4hxg.T0DNHlli6jhmYLqVGU3kopqURpphjLB.9yMuvqL xXw8jWrVPHO5Rxhfrx3axiJ_QstqMZdn7fuDqe8cbLyQVZ/

[CavaliersFTW]

http://omgili.com/thread/jHIAmI4hxg.T0DNHlli6jhmYLqVGU3kopqURpphjLB.9yMuvqL xXw8jWrVPHO5Rxhfrx3axiJ_QstqMZdn7fuDqe8cbLyQVZ/
What is omgili?

[fpliii]

What is omgili?
Site that crawls major forums, and copies over portions of some (maybe all?) notable threads with previews and links to the forum.

Someone posted it in OTC a few months ago, pretty weird site lol.

EDIT - Here's the thread:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=300117

[LAZERUSS]

Oh c'mon, we could as well tell that you or CavaliersFTW have agenda, pro Wilt bias and no presented facts will change your opinion. It was discussed many times on realGM and most better posters, from polite ones like DoctorMJ, through Elgee, Chicago76, mysticcbb or fatal, to emotional ones like Bastillon agrees that Wilt was limited scorer and his impact on the game was lower than his box score numbers suggest.

And most of them had an anti-Chamberlain agenda. El Gee posted some ridiculous formula that I trashed here regarding points per possessions, which tried to make Wilt look like an average scorer.

And we KNOW that Fatal went off the deep end regarding Chamberlain. He used to dispute every account that was given...until CavsFan started postiong VIDEO footage, and INTERVIEWS with Tex Winter and Arnold Schwartenegger. He was gone shortly thereafter.

Chamberlain single-handedly was taking LAST PLACE rosters to within an eyelash of beating the greatest dynasty in the history of the NBA. And he did so with players that were no better before they played with him, nor afterwards. None of them suffered statistically because of Chamberlain. Most were average to below average players who performed even worse in the post-season.

And while Chamberlain was being SWARMED (virtually an endless supply of first-hand accounts, as well as footage from the second half of game four of the '64 Finals), he was not only shutting down his HOF opposing centers, he was trying to defend their entire teams. In that game four of the '64 Finals, Russell stuffs the game-winner on an offensive rebound. Why? Because Chamberlain leaped out an forced Heinsohn to throw up an horriblel shot that clanked off into Russell's hands. And the game-winner in the '62 EDF's, Yep, Sam Jones (who would hit many in his post-season career)...and over guess who...Chamberlain's fingertips.

Sorry, but you guys really need to move on.

[CavaliersFTW]

And most of them had an anti-Chamberlain agenda. El Gee posted some ridiculous formula that I trashed here regarding points per possessions, which tried to make Wilt look like an average scorer.

And we KNOW that Fatal went off the deep end regarding Chamberlain. He used to dispute every account that was given...until CavsFan started postiong VIDEO footage, and INTERVIEWS with Tex Winter and Arnold Schwartenegger. He was gone shortly thereafter.

Chamberlain single-handedly was taking LAST PLACE rosters to within an eyelash of beating the greatest dynasty in the history of the NBA. And he did so with players that were no better before they played with him, nor afterwards. None of them suffered statistically because of Chamberlain. Most were average to below average players who performed even worse in the post-season.

And while Chamberlain was being SWARMED (virtually an endless supply of first-hand accounts, as well as footage from the second half of game four of the '64 Finals), he was not only shutting down his HOF opposing centers, he was trying to defend their entire teams. In that game four of the '64 Finals, Russell stuffs the game-winner on an offensive rebound. Why? Because Chamberlain leaped out an forced Heinsohn to throw up an horriblel shot that clanked off into Russell's hands. And the game-winner in the '62 EDF's, Yep, Sam Jones (who would hit many in his post-season career)...and over guess who...Chamberlain's fingertips.

Sorry, but you guys really need to move on.
I just can't believe a bunch of nerds on the internet who never saw Wilt play one day decided enough was enough about Wilt ruining their basketball discussions with all his pesky NBA records and stories of incredible size, strength and skill so they decided to contrive these 'formulas' and shit to try and support some completely 180 degree notion that WILT CHAMBERLAIN it turns out, WASN'T any good offensively :eek: ...

:roll: I can't even say that with a straight face... It's so backwards it reminds me of the corny shit conspiracy theorists would come up with. Water it turns out, ISN'T in fact wet guys! If you make adjustments to it using these formulas you'll see how dry it actually is! :eek:

[LAZERUSS]

I just can't believe a bunch of nerds on the internet who never saw Wilt play one day decided enough was enough about Wilt ruining their basketball discussions with all his pesky NBA records and his insane dominance so they decided to contrive these 'formulas' and shit to try and support some completely 180 degree notion that WILT CHAMBERLAIN it turns out, WASN'T any good offensively :eek: ...

:roll: I can't even say that with a straight face... It's so backwards it reminds me of the corny shit conspiracy theorists would come up with.

... really the statistically greatest offensive player of all time, and the physically most dominant specimen ever... was NOT any good offensively?... oh rlly!?, Oh and let's not forget they tried to say he in fact WASN'T that physically dominant either, it was 'only for his time' remember people pushing that too? IE 24 inch vertical :oldlol: This wasn't but a few years back, til I started doing research on his wingspan, weight, height without shoes and how it compares with modern players. As well as identifying pieces of footage where he clearly displayed his incredible size and/or athleticism.

These nerds tried penalizing Wilt for every possible thing they could, they'd even take his records and turn them into something negative. Never fouled out? "DIDN'T PLAY DEFENSE!"... Stamina/minutes played records? "WOULD NEVER PLAY THAT MUCH TODAY, MAKES STATS NOT IMPRESSIVE"... These guys thought they every angle figured out so as to have Wilt written off for good, but there is a ton of logical fallacies, assumptions (now proven to be incorrect) and holes in their agenda they came up with. Because that's what happen when you're agenda couldn't be further from the truth, they're basically trying to argue that water isn't wet :oldlol: This scouting video should kill any 'unksilled' nonsense. I will be glad when it is finished and out there for people to see.

AMEN Brother!

[CavaliersFTW]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/45457770.jpg

[trueDS]

And most of them had an anti-Chamberlain agenda. El Gee posted some ridiculous formula that I trashed here regarding points per possessions,

Really, where?
Besides the most important thing is Wilt's impact (that's all what matters in basketball) and guys on realGM clearly showed his impact wasn't GOAT like or "unstoppable scorer" like.

And of course - if you are using rhetoric like "most of them had anti Wilt agenda" then the same can be said about you or others here: most of you had pro Wilt bias and that's why you guys don't see the truth and use personal attacks instead of reasonable discussion.

[CavaliersFTW]

Really, where?
Besides the most important thing is Wilt's impact (that's all what matters in basketball) and guys on realGM clearly showed his impact wasn't GOAT like or "unstoppable scorer" like.

And of course - if you are using rhetoric like "most of them had anti Wilt agenda" then the same can be said about you or others here: most of you had pro Wilt bias and that's why you guys don't see the truth and use personal attacks instead of reasonable discussion.
The nerds on realgm did nothing but fabricate,, err i mean 'adjust' numbers in a way that would make Wilt seem less than he actually was, because that was their ultimate objective. Penalize Wilt for his own records. Minutes played records? "PER 36 stats!!', never fouled out of a game? 'Didn't play defense!'. None of their numbers and conclusions have any merit, they re just a bunch of nerds who never saw Wilt play but were obsessed with finding a way of making him, an unbelievably dominant player, seem underwhelmingly 'normal'. They set out to explain why water isn't wet, and that's just what they accomplished. Until of course, somebody turns up the truth. That's why those guys fled ISH. Too many actual basketball historians started turning up data and film that demolished their agenda.

[stanlove1111]

Literally laughed out loud, a bunch of nerds on realgm convinced themselves Wilt Chamberlain 'was a limited scorer', aint that the cutest thing I ever heard :oldlol:

You really think making a video showing he did all that means anything at all, You can do that with most players who ever played if you just want to take a few examples of them doing this or that. You could do this and make Rodman seem like a good scorer. I love your video but this is nothing more then propaganda.


Compared to a lot of todays players Wilt's offense was very limited. Basketball has evolved a lot since Wilt played. He should be considered one of the best ever just because what he did during his time, and if he grew up today with todays basketball skills he might still be the best. But put Wilt from 1968 against todays league and he is not much of a scorer.

[CavaliersFTW]

You really think making a video showing he did all that means anything at all, You can do that with most players who ever played if you just want to take a few examples of them doing this or that. You could do this and make Rodman seem like a good scorer. I love your video but this is nothing more then propaganda.


Compared to a lot of todays players Wilt's offense was very limited. Basketball has evolved a lot since Wilt played. He should be considered one of the best ever just because what he did during his time, and if he grew up today with todays basketball skills he might still be the best. But put Wilt from 1968 against todays league and he is not much of a scorer.
You don't get it, I'm taking every fgm captured on film and putting it all together. I'm not 'taking a few examples of this or that'. A random 1.8-3% (between 375 and 620fg's, and the latter is a generous estimate, the total count is yet to be determined). These are also all bias towards playoff and ASG clips due to extremely limited coverage of regular season match ups in that era. Simply put there isn't enough available to 'cherry pick' even if I'd wanted too. Ergo I'm going to show it all, to at least get a vague idea of not only the variety of ways which he was capable of scoring, but also the shots he appeared to depend on to get the mother share of his points. You'll be able to see which shots within the 1.75-3% window he wanted to take the most often.

What you asserted I'm doing and what I'm actually doing are two different things. More than half of Rodman's career probably exists on film, heck maybe all of it does, not under 3 percent. You can cherry pick the crap out of his footage as you stated, but how in any way whatsoever would that compare to what I'm doing? That isn't my objective nor do I even have that capability with the Wilt footage. I'm just going to put all his known FGM on the table.

Wilt made 20,628 career FG's, less than 600 likely exists on film, heck I'd be surprised if more than 450 exists on film to be honest.

Rodman made 3216 - or a little over 5 and a half fgm per game reg season and just under 5 and a half fgm per game playoffs. 3216 * .0225 (representing a 2.25% coverage of his career) = the equivalent of just 80 totally random fgm from his career to choose from to try and show off Dennis Rodman as a 'great scorer' as you put it. Equal to about 14 random games he played. Roll the dice and pick 14 games from his career, make at least 2 of them his 2 all star game appearances actually, where he scored 16 points - the remaining 12 random games make it bias to playoff games he played in, from the latter half of his career. And that's what you'd have to work with to make it 'seem' like Dennis Rodman was a 'great scorer'. Good luck with that. Rodman hardly ever scored in any way outside of an offensive rebound or backdoor play where he was left wide open anyways. You don't understand how plays unfold in basketball if you think you can take a player who's poor at something and make him look like he's great at it. How Rodman scored vs how Wilt scored is vastly different. You can show 100 points being scored by Wilt and 100 point being scored by Rodman and Wilt is going to look more versatile and dominant doing it than Rodman. Rodman, regardless of how many times you show him score points, doesn't iso people and do a lot of work to get in position to score over defense, Wilt does.

[LAZERUSS]

I can't wait for this...

With the small influx we are getting from the "Wlit-bashers" at RealGM, this should put an end to this nonsense about Wilt's POOR offensive game.

I already KNOW that Chamberlain had EXCELLENT range of 10-12 feet in the mid-60's (it was basically unstoppable), but from the college footage that exists, and the first-hand accounts of his early seasons in the NBA, there was no question that his SKILL levels were probably among the best ever of the pure centers.

True, his FT shooting was never good, but it was adequate early in his career (and at times, even spectacular.) But, Shaq couldn't shoot from eight+ feet much, either, and was just as bad from the line. And yet there are those that would claim that he was "unstoppable."

And again, I hope that you can somehow slip in Fatal's two-minute garbage video, before the beginning of your's. Why? Because it would be the equivalent of SI running a story in late January of 1969, claiming that Wilt could no longer score...and Chamberlain unleashing the first of TWO 60+ point games on the night before it hit the newstands.

[CavaliersFTW]

Going to add a category, physical profile, would be silly not to have some testimonial and clips of his extraordinary strength to premise the rest of the clips. His extraordinary size and strength are why he had the moves that he had.

[fpliii]

Going to add a category, physical profile, would be silly not to have some testimonial and clips of his extraordinary strength to premise the rest of the clips. His extraordinary size and strength are why he had the moves that he had.
Nice.

[SpanishACB]

There's a couple of his moves we've only got 1 or 2 examples of

This should be made more clear.


By reading the thread someone could get the impression you're making a video of Wilt's offensive array. Sure. But there's nothing that proves plenty of those moves where only used 3 or 4 times in his career is there?


A highlight video is not a tool to educate the mass, it's a tool to decieve the mass like making a highlight video of Griffin's long range game or Rubio's dunks.

[CavaliersFTW]

This should be made more clear.


By reading the thread someone could get the impression you're making a video of Wilt's offensive array. Sure. But there's nothing that proves plenty of those moves where only used 3 or 4 times in his career is there?


A highlight video is not a tool to educate the mass, it's a tool to decieve the mass like making a highlight video of Griffin's long range game or Rubio's dunks.
Plenty of what moves? We've got perhaps 2% of his career field goals, there isn't plenty of anything outside of his bread and butter moves (finger roll and fade away variations). Wilt seems to have had a very clever baseline game that included some spins and up and unders that he used more rarely, much more rarely actually than his typical finger roll and fall away shot game. I don't think the clips we've got of his alternative moves however represent something he only did '3 or 4 times' in his career as some of the moves I've only got say, once, twice, or a few times are attempted in other clips a few more times that did not result in a field goal made (he gets wrapped up and goes to the line instead, etc). He repeats the moves like they are committed to memory. The sheer volume of points he scored means I don't think there was a move in his book that he ever limited to 3 or 4 uses. He didn't play in a showboat era, even all star games back then were played competitively and were not like today where it is about entertainment and showcasing skill (like Dwight taking a 3 or something). It makes more sense to assume that either a move became a part of your repertoire back then, or it didn't.

You are right about this not necessarily being a highlight, as it is every field goal that exists of his roughly 2% of available footage that I've got. It MAY be enough to kind of get an idea of the ratio how often he shot fadeaways vs finger rolls, vs spins, or how often he would alley oop, or run the floor, etc. But of course it still must be understood this is a random 2% of his career bias towards the latter half of his career, bias towards playoff games and finals games, and towards all star games. And none of the sources comes from games where he really was in an attack mode looking to drop 60 or w/e and get to the basket at will.

[longhornfan1234]

Shaq, Hakeem, Mikan, Kareem, and Moses are superior than Wilt in the post. I'm not that impressed with Wilt's game. Hopefully this footage impresses me.

[fpliii]

I know they're difficult to master and not the best shots in every situation, but the finger roll and fadeaway are definitely among the most aesthetically pleasing to watch.

[CavaliersFTW]

For reasonable time constraints I feel I may need to do a seperate video for scoring and passing. Still not sure on that though, part of me doesn't like the idea of breaking up his offense when people will be trying to assess his level of skill or decision making say, on the low block. Wilt's positioning and skill for scoring and passing are very intertwined, he's constantly feigning handoffs and passes or feigning shots to keep the defense honest. In the low block for instance he's a constant threat to hit shooters or hit someone backdoor so he often pauses for a long time before making a move. In a video strictly of his scoring, people may not understand why he takes so much time without the context of seeing how he passes. Still though, there's so much footage I've got I don't know if it will all fit into a reasonable sized compilation.

Here's a preliminary glance, the intro on his physical traits, moving into left block scoring - these two sections are still missing clips from my Wilt vs Kareem matchup footage so even they are not finished sections:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvLad8avkmU

[fpliii]

For reasonable time constraints I feel I may need to do a seperate video for scoring and passing. Still not sure on that though, part of me doesn't like the idea of breaking up his offense when people will be trying to assess his level of skill or decision making say, on the low block. Wilt's positioning and skill for scoring and passing are very intertwined, he's constantly feigning handoffs and passes or feigning shots to keep the defense honest. In the low block for instance he's a constant threat to hit shooters or hit someone backdoor so he often pauses for a long time before making a move. In a video strictly of his scoring, people may not understand why he takes so much time without the context of seeing how he passes. Still though, there's so much footage I've got I don't know if it will all fit into a reasonable sized compilation.

Here's a preliminary glance, the intro on his physical traits, moving into left block scoring - these two sections are still missing clips from my Wilt vs Kareem matchup footage so even they are not finished sections:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvLad8avkmU
Great, great stuff.

I think, as you said, the passing is important. Maybe you can split it in two parts: first part being low post from both blocks (including passing), and the second can be the rest of his offense?

I don't personally mind if the video is long, but I can understand where you're coming from. Maybe listing the times when different segments start in the description will help?

OT - BTW I just noticed that he used a move similar to the Tomahawk fake on Pettit from the ASG at 7:40 (though his back was to the basket). Pretty impressive fake, did he do it any other time in your footage?

[longhornfan1234]

For reasonable time constraints I feel I may need to do a seperate video for scoring and passing. Still not sure on that though, part of me doesn't like the idea of breaking up his offense when people will be trying to assess his level of skill or decision making say, on the low block. Wilt's positioning and skill for scoring and passing are very intertwined, he's constantly feigning handoffs and passes or feigning shots to keep the defense honest. In the low block for instance he's a constant threat to hit shooters or hit someone backdoor so he often pauses for a long time before making a move. In a video strictly of his scoring, people may not understand why he takes so much time without the context of seeing how he passes. Still though, there's so much footage I've got I don't know if it will all fit into a reasonable sized compilation.

Here's a preliminary glance, the intro on his physical traits, moving into left block scoring - these two sections are still missing clips from my Wilt vs Kareem matchup footage so even they are not finished sections:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvLad8avkmU


Meh footwork.

[CavaliersFTW]

Great, great stuff.

I think, as you said, the passing is important. Maybe you can split it in two parts: first part being low post from both blocks (including passing), and the second can be the rest of his offense?

I don't personally mind if the video is long, but I can understand where you're coming from. Maybe listing the times when different segments start in the description will help?

OT - BTW I just noticed that he used a move similar to the Tomahawk fake on Pettit from the ASG at 7:40 (though his back was to the basket). Pretty impressive fake, did he do it any other time in your footage?
That overhead wind-up is something he does a few times in various sequences, I've got him doing that a few more times, though since they aren't in this left block scoring footage I'm assuming they are either in the from a passing highlight or maybe from some of his 2-man game baskets like on a give and go. I don't think he does that on the right block. His right block clips are an interesting contrast to the left block, he changes his scoring habits quite a bit depending on which side he's on.

[fpliii]

That overhead wind-up is something he does a few times in various sequences, I've got him doing that a few more times, though since they aren't in this left block scoring footage I'm assuming they are either in the from a passing highlight or maybe from some of his 2-man game baskets like on a give and go. I don't think he does that on the right block. His right block clips are an interesting contrast to the left block, he changes his scoring habits quite a bit depending on which side he's on.
Not to spoil it, but what are the key differences between the left and right blocks?

[CavaliersFTW]

Not to spoil it, but what are the key differences between the left and right blocks?
Just the frequency of moves, and how it alters their appearance. He takes more fade aways than finger rolls on the left, but the opposite is true on the right. He also does the quick baseline spin repeatedly on the right block, where as I only have that one attempt captured on film on the left block. Late in his career he quite literally never shoots a fall away from the right side, though early in his career it seems he may have taken just as many or nearly so as he did on the left side.

[fpliii]

Just the frequency of moves, and how it alters their appearance. He takes more fade aways than finger rolls on the left, but the opposite is true on the right. He also does the quick baseline spin repeatedly on the right block, where as I only have that one attempt captured on film on the left block. Late in his career he quite literally never shoots a fall away from the right side, though early in his career it seems he may have taken just as many or nearly so as he did on the left side.
Ah okay, good stuff.

BTW does either of my proposals (either splitting into two videos, the first low block on both sides including passing, or instead one long video with start times of segments in the description) sound reasonable? Or were you thinking of splitting a different way?

[Miller for 3]

Awesome idea. Really looking forward to the full vid

[Pointguard]

Cavs, on the passing part there are a couple of clips, I don't know if they are your clips or not, of Wilt hitting the second cutter and sometimes the second cutter is coming from the opposite side of the court going for the rebound. It takes a lot of court awareness to do that as it is an impromptu pass that reflects an understanding of court dynamics.

[CavaliersFTW]

Ah okay, good stuff.

BTW does either of my proposals (either splitting into two videos, the first low block on both sides including passing, or instead one long video with start times of segments in the description) sound reasonable? Or were you thinking of splitting a different way?
If I have the video split I really just might do scoring, then a passing video. But we'll see, I'd rather do one long one than split it but if the video for example is longer than 25 minutes JUST on scoring I may split it. I know you might, but most people won't sit through 3 minutes of footage let alone 25, my longest videos are my least viewed.

I added the Kareem footage and now I'm rendering what I THINK will be a complete version of Wilt's left block scoring section (audio and clip organization subject to change, but the footage is there). I'll have it up on YT tomorrow for you to check out. Wilt did 2 baseline spins against Kareem so that means Wilt does a baseline spin 3 times on film from the left block which closes the gap a bit in comparison to how many times I've got him doing it from the right block... this is the one problem with having such a small sample size of footage, he clearly had moves in his repertoire that we only have a few clips of, there's so little footage of his alternative moves that just finding one or two clips can alter my perception of how often he used a move. Or in the case of the recent efootage uploads, show us moves we never even had footage of Wilt doing previously so to someone like me who never saw him play, it shows him doing something I never saw him do before.

It is not unreasonable to assume we might be missing quite a few alternative moves of his. I've got 'lot's' of Wilt footage, as in I could probably make an hour long mix which would be ridiculous, but it's becoming clear how 'relatively' little I have, as not all of my footage is the 'highlight' material other players are lucky to have being that nearly all of their careers exist on film. The footage I have to work with is just a window to a more or less random 2% of his career, bias towards the latter half of his career and bias towards Finals/Playoffs/ASG's. Having just a random 2% of any players career in this fashion is not a lot when you start trying to analyze specifics on his versatility/variety for playing /scoring.

[fpliii]

If I have the video split I really just might do scoring, then a passing video. But we'll see, I'd rather do one long one than split it but if the video for example is longer than 25 minutes JUST on scoring I may split it. I know you might, but most people won't sit through 3 minutes of footage let alone 25, my longest videos are my least viewed.

I added the Kareem footage and now I'm rendering what I THINK will be a complete version of Wilt's left block scoring section (audio and clip organization subject to change, but the footage is there). I'll have it up on YT tomorrow for you to check out. Wilt did 2 baseline spins against Kareem so that means Wilt does a baseline spin 3 times on film from the left block which closes the gap a bit in comparison to how many times I've got him doing it from the right block... this is the one problem with having such a small sample size of footage, he clearly had moves in his repertoire that we only have a few clips of, there's so little footage of his alternative moves that just finding one or two clips can alter my perception of how often he used a move. Or in the case of the recent efootage uploads, show us moves we never even had footage of Wilt doing previously so to someone like me who never saw him play, it shows him doing something I never saw him do before.

It is not unreasonable to assume we might be missing quite a few alternative moves of his. I've got 'lot's' of Wilt footage, as in I could probably make an hour long mix which would be ridiculous, but it's becoming clear how 'relatively' little I have, as not all of my footage is the 'highlight' material other players are lucky to have being that nearly all of their careers exist on film. The footage I have to work with is just a window to a more or less random 2% of his career, bias towards the latter half of his career and bias towards Finals/Playoffs/ASG's. Having just a random 2% of any players career in this fashion is not a lot when you start trying to analyze specifics on his versatility/variety for playing /scoring.
Sounds great, looking forward to it. Nice to hear that about the baseline spin and the other extra footage.

BTW in the long term after you're done with your current projects, do you think you'd be interested in doing something similar for Bucks Kareem? Or do you think it's unnecessary?

[CavaliersFTW]

Sounds great, looking forward to it. Nice to hear that about the baseline spin and the other extra footage.

BTW in the long term after you're done with your current projects, do you think you'd be interested in doing something similar for Bucks Kareem? Or do you think it's unnecessary?
I've been contemplating restructuring the Russell mix like this it's a lot of work but it might be worth it. I could do a Bucks Kareem mix like this too down the road that's possible.

[fpliii]

I've been contemplating restructuring the Russell mix like this it's a lot of work but it might be worth it. I could do a Bucks Kareem mix like this too down the road that's possible.
Nice.

My question about the Russ mix is, is there enough footage to put together an offensive mix based on his post moves? Though I guess you could get into the playing five positions thing with him.

Maybe it's just me, but I think Russ would be best served with a mix focussing on athleticism/versatility on offense and defense/passing/shotblocking/crazy rebounds. I feel like the main "knocks" on Russ by casual fans are:

[fpliii]

BTW I just saw that your Nate mix is unlisted. Was this the final version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwS6dxlR6g

?

Or do I have an old link?

[CavaliersFTW]

here's that finished left block scoring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrevhQnhUPI

[fpliii]

here's that finished left block scoring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrevhQnhUPI
:applause:

[Psileas]

The basket at 8:41 had always been one of my favorite ones. Off balance, fade-away, using glass, all at once, at 290 lbs. Without having seen and studied any big man before him perform this. Yeah, definitely unskilled... :facepalm

[turnaroundJ]

I'm sorry but I've noticed that he's fond of taking this dumb finger roll facing backwards even if he's not that close to the basket. Terrible and inefficient shot.

[longhornfan1234]

here's that finished left block scoring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrevhQnhUPI



That turnaround j. :bowdown: :bowdown:

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm sorry but I've noticed that he's fond of taking this dumb finger roll facing backwards even if he's not that close to the basket. Terrible and inefficient shot.
Looks like he drains it repeatedly over Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul Jabbar among anyone else he's shooting it over, but what does Wilt know he only owns all the NBA's volume and field goal percentage records right? I noticed 2 things with that shot:

*It is an opportunity for him to impose his physicality and intimidate, as he turns in he is often right on top of the player defending him even using his left hand to sweep or lean on the opponent if he gets away with it

*He's turning in deep, and the release is soft, which puts him in great offensive rebound position to follow his own shot if he feels a bad release, this is demonstrated in that section when he does just that against Bill Russell

Seems like an awesome shot to me :applause:

[turnaroundJ]

Looks like he drains it repeatedly over Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul Jabbar among anyone else he's shooting it over, but what does Wilt know he only owns all the NBA's volume and field goal percentage records right? I noticed 2 things with that shot:

*It is an opportunity for him to impose his physicality and intimidate, as he turns in he is often right on top of the player defending him even using his left hand to sweep or lean on the opponent if he gets away with it

*He's turning in deep, and the release is soft, which puts him in great offensive rebound position to follow his own shot if he feels a bad release, this is demonstrated in that section when he does just that against Bill Russell

Seems like an awesome shot to me :applause:

I'm sure he's made a load of those but it IS a highlight vid, so you'd expect not to see misses.

The leaning makes him release it off-balanced, though it does seem like his way to get closer. The arc is also quite flat. He isn't exactly laying it down from above.

I'm talking about the ones he attempts from 5+ feet away, facing the opposite basket. A possible reason for shooting it would be to make getting tip-ins or putbacks easier, but I don't see why he wouldn't just shoot some sort of a hook shot in those situations in stead of leaning in for some flip shot.

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm sure he's made a load of those but it IS a highlight vid, so you'd expect not to see misses.

The leaning makes him release it off-balanced, though it does seem like his way to get closer. The arc is also quite flat. He isn't exactly laying it down from above.

I'm talking about the ones he attempts from 5+ feet away, facing the opposite basket. A possible reason for shooting it would be to make getting tip-ins or putbacks easier, but I don't see why he wouldn't just shoot some sort of a hook shot in those situations in stead of leaning in for some flip shot.
Not quite, this is a project that shows every made bucket captured on film. And only about 2% of his career field goals exists on films. The footage is not selective as to which clips are shown. If he makes a particular shot a lot, it means he was taking that shot a lot. If he took the shot a lot, do you doubt that his mind was incapable of figuring out which shots worked for him and which shots didn't? Particularly seeing as how, as pointed out, he owns the leagues scoring and accuracy records?

[Psileas]

And only about 2% of his career field goals exists on films.?

That's a better phrasing that the "2% of his career exists" that I've also read, which is simply not true (it's obviously lower - we're talking about 47859+7559 career minutes + the free throws).

[Psileas]

It would also be interesting to count his dunks and estimate how many he had in his career (after breaking them down into specific eras, since he didn't dunk as often during his whole career) and where he'd rank all-time. He might not catch Shaq, who has more than 4,000 career dunks and is almost certainly the all-time leader, but he may have more than anyone else, with Kareem being the only other strong challenger (since the early 90's, Robinson was #2 behind Shaq, and he had less than 2,000).

[CavaliersFTW]

It would also be interesting to count his dunks and estimate how many he had in his career (after breaking them down into specific eras, since he didn't dunk as often during his whole career) and where he'd rank all-time. He might not catch Shaq, who has more than 4,000 career dunks and is almost certainly the all-time leader, but he may have more than anyone else, with Kareem being the only other strong challenger (since the early 90's, Robinson was #2 behind Shaq, and he had less than 2,000).
In the post he used the highest percentage 'finesse' finishes relative to any other potential methods of getting free to score, such as what you see in this left block footage I provided. But virtually all of his backdoor, pick and roll, and give and go plays resulted in a dunk, not to mention a very significant portion of his offensive rebounds. Interestingly, a lot of his lobs however, were soft lay ins, this is somewhat of a contrast to what we see today when players convert on lobs. But lobs aren't really a common play anyways. Not relative to the rest of the ways he put the ball in the hoop at least. All in all yeah, Wilt racked up a lot of dunks. If he was deep he was unstoppable just like Shaq.

[fpliii]

In the post he used the highest percentage 'finesse' finishes relative to any other potential methods of getting free to score, such as what you see in this left block footage I provided. But virtually all of his backdoor, pick and roll, and give and go plays resulted in a dunk, not to mention a very significant portion of his offensive rebounds. Interestingly, a lot of his lobs however, were soft lay ins, this is somewhat of a contrast to what we see today when players convert on lobs. But lobs aren't really a common play anyways. Not relative to the rest of the ways he put the ball in the hoop at least. All in all yeah, Wilt racked up a lot of dunks. If he was deep he was unstoppable just like Shaq.
You mentioned before that there were some slight differences between his left and right block scoring. Just wondering, with regards to his fadeaway in particular, was he more likely to use the glass on one side than the other?

[CavaliersFTW]

You mentioned before that there were some slight differences between his left and right block scoring. Just wondering, with regards to his fadeaway in particular, was he more likely to use the glass on one side than the other?
Go and watch my 1960's scoring video I made and you can see for yourself, he doesn't take that shot in his Laker years (or rather, let's say very rarely, it's not on the limited amount of film, not even an attempt) anyways. When he's in the right block and turns to fade he always rotates to HIS right which means he's actually shooting from near the high post. As such, I don't think he's at any advantagious angle to really be using glass, he's essentially facing the backboard straight on.

[fpliii]

Go and watch my 1960's scoring video I made and you can see for yourself, he doesn't take that shot in his Laker years (at least not on film) anyways. When he's in the right block and turns to fade he always rotates to HIS right which means he's actually shooting from near the high post. As such, I don't think he's at any advantagious angle to really be using glass, he's essentially facing the backboard straight on.
Good stuff. I'll rewatch when I get home.

[trueDS]

I'm sure he's made a load of those but it IS a highlight vid, so you'd expect not to see misses.


Exactly. Such highlights could show us some tendencies, but not much besides that. Without misses we really don't know how efficient player was in particular types of plays. Hey, even Shaq had a few seasons when he made 70 midrange jumpers each year and we could made exactly the same highlights video without misses and he would look good from midrange. But that would be just delusion, as is also in Wilt's case.

[CavaliersFTW]

Exactly. Such highlights could show us some tendencies, but not much besides that. Without misses we really don't know how efficient player was in particular types of plays. Hey, even Shaq had a few seasons when he made 70 midrange jumpers each year and we could made exactly the same highlights video without misses and he would look good from midrange. But that would be just delusion, as is also in Wilt's case.
Incorrect, you have Shaq's entire career to draw from

We have 2% of Wilt's field goals, we can't just select ANY 2% we want either, as in your analogy of 'we could just select footage of shaq making those shots that particular season!' That is invalid logic and does not apply here. These are not 'highlights', these are all of the random collection of Wilt's field goals made.

Highlights would be like if we had Wilt's ENTIRE career on film, and we only selected the very best of the best. We don't have that luxury, not even close. The information you seek is a shot chart. Which you can get details on from the poster Phila.

[trueDS]

No, if there aren't missed shots then = highlights - no matter from what sample (2% field goals, or whole career).

Really, what is so difficult to understand in that if player X often used some type of shot, that doesn't mean he was effective in that? For example Antoine Walker made a lot of threes, but he was bad three point shooter. The same is with Wilt's fadeaways. He made a lot of them during his early years, but wasn't efficient as fadeaway shooter. No wonder his efficiency from the field skyrocket, when he limited fadeaways and focused on putbacks and overall shots at rim.

[CavaliersFTW]

No, if there aren't missed shots then = highlights - no matter from what sample (2% field goals, or whole career).

Really, what is so difficult to understand in that if player X often used some type of shot, that doesn't mean he was effective in that? For example Antoine Walker made a lot of threes, but he was bad three point shooter. The same is with Wilt's fadeaways. He made a lot of them during his early years, but wasn't efficient as fadeaway shooter. No wonder his efficiency from the field skyrocket, when he limited fadeaways and focused on putbacks and overall shots at rim.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you siding with a guy who just argued Wilt's left block fingerroll was a bad shot?

The shot he still kept intact in his repertoire (as evidenced by footage of him taking the shot repeatedly, make or miss, in '67 and '73 in both games film and Winek documentary footage?) when he set records in accuracy that still stand?

He shot the fall away from both blocks in '62 when he scored, 50.4ppg on greater than 50% from the floor. He retired it to a great degree in '67. After '67 he was taking it again on a fairly consistent basis, but only from the left block.

You also assert he focused more on 'putbacks' later in his career? Putbacks? Really? I have 2 putbacks of his on film. Just 2. How much of Wilt's game do you understand that ISN'T based on an obvious assumption? Is that not why a video like this needs to be made? Do you not see the value in it?

As I stated, if you want shot charts of the known games of his that exists, look up Phila's shot chart. He made one. Watch the games on Youtube to see exactly what shots were attempted, they're there. What I'm making, still isn't a highlight. In highlights the cream rises to the top. What I'm showing, is footage of the random 2% of his field goals made that are lucky to exist on film. There is a distinct difference.

[Psileas]

No, if there aren't missed shots then = highlights - no matter from what sample (2% field goals, or whole career).

Νο, field goals made don't necessarily equal scoring highlights, unless someone wants to believe that scoring a field goal would automatically constitute a highlight and I know most don't. When we see highlights of a game, we don't get to see all FGM's of it.

[trueDS]

You guys might believe in anything you want, but unless there are missed shots such video doesn't have much worth (shooting tendencies are the only value of such video). It's just like Antoine Walker and his three pointers made - without misses we would think he was great three point shooter.


PS
According to Dipper's/Phila's research Wilt was:

3/10 (30%) from midrange
42/51 (82.4%) at rim (including 18/19 slam dunks - 95%)
0/10 (0%) non at rim in the paint shots
so total 3/20 FG (15%!) outside of at rim area!

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1247724

So basically Wilt was worthless as a scorer outside of at rim area (15% FG%!)

[CavaliersFTW]

You guys might believe in anything you want, but unless there are missed shots such video doesn't have much worth (shooting tendencies are the only value of such video). It's just like Antoine Walker and his three pointers made - without misses we would think he was great three point shooter.


PS
According to Dipper's/Phila's research Wilt was:

3/10 (30%) from midrange
42/51 (82.4%) at rim (including 18/19 slam dunks - 95%)
0/10 (0%) non at rim in the paint shots
so total 3/20 FG (15%!) outside of at rim area!

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1247724

So basically Wilt was worthless as a scorer outside of at rim area (15% FG%!)
Just keep in mind Phila's research encompasses an extremely small sample size, like, hardly a fraction of a percent of Wilt's career. Also bias towards Late-career/Finals/Playoff games. You thinking the video I'm creating being of 'not much value' is your opinion. You're entitled to it. But I have a feeling many others will disagree with you on this. I myself am finding it quite interesting and revealing and I'm the one putting it together.

Also your numbers are wrong, Phila updated that to include the 1973 game. With that 1973 game (which isn't included in the numbers you provided) That is the equivalent of 7 complete NBA games. Only 1 of them regular season, from 1972 when Wilt was a defensive specialist. And on top of that, the equivalent of only 1 game was from Wilt's prime in the 1960's, neither of which during seasons when he was gunning (the 2nd half of 1964 Finals, and the 2nd half of 1967 EDF). Both those seasons were under Hannum, who always coached Wilt to pass more and score less. Context of what you are looking at is important here.

[trueDS]

You are the one, who wanted me to look at Dipper's/Phila's shot charts.

Sure, sample is biased towards later Wilt, but it really doesn't change much in overall picture, as everything is consistent with observations and overall numbers - I mean, the less Wilt shot fadeaways, the better his overall FG% was. That's really not some rocket science and if he was 75-80 FG% at rim shooter then it's impossible he was better than 30-33% shooter from fadeaways.

If you disagree, please explain why. What in your opinion was Wilt's FG% from at rim and fadeaway shots in his scoring prime? I know, we don't have numbers, but I would like to know your opinion, even if it's "just" educated guess. Because as 51 G% shooter from 1960 to 1966, he either was really bad from fadeawys, midrange, not at rim in the paint shot, or he was bad as at rim finisher. There are no other possibilities. And of course it's very unlikely Wilt was anything less than 75 FG% shooter at rim.

[fpliii]

Does the finger roll count as at the rim, or as a not at the rim paint shot? If it's at the rim, I could see it bringing down his at rim percentage, especially if he stopped using it later on.

I don't have any opinion one way or the other, just wondering. Maybe PHILA/Dipper 13 can let us know.

[CavaliersFTW]

You are the one, who wanted me to look at Dipper's/Phila's shot charts.

Sure, sample is biased towards later Wilt, but it really doesn't change much in overall picture, as everything is consistent with observations and overall numbers - I mean, the less Wilt shot fadeaways, the better his overall FG% was. That's really not some rocket science and if he was 75-80 FG% at rim shooter then it's impossible he was better than 30-33% shooter from fadeaways.

If you disagree, please explain why. What in your opinion was Wilt's FG% from at rim and fadeaway shots in his scoring prime? I know, we don't have numbers, but I would like to know your opinion, even if it's "just" educated guess. Because as 51 G% shooter from 1960 to 1966, he either was really bad from fadeawys, midrange, not at rim in the paint shot, or he was bad as at rim finisher. There are no other possibilities. And of course it's very unlikely Wilt was anything less than 75 FG% shooter at rim.
Shooting above 50% while also scoring at a volume of 50ppg isn't... "bad"... it is legendary, so I'm not sure what you want me to say? When he dropped his volume to 24ppg he shot 68.3%, which is also legendary. He may have greatly reduced his fadeaway in '67 under coach Hannum but the same does not appear to be true for the rest of his career, he took the shot at a decent clip as a Laker, even during the 73 season when he shot 73% from the field on low volume. I think he became more careful with his shot selection when field goal accuracy was something he wanted to concentrate on. This does not necessarily mean retiring shots, I think rather, it means passing up opportunities to shoot over doubles or heavily contested shots. He liked to set personal goals for himself, as many players do. Why he was so accurate some seasons is more or less speculative. He appears to have scored with the same shots throughout his entire career, save for two things that I notice through the project I'm working on now:

*In footage of him in 1967, he only attempts a fade away jumper once, which is proportionately low given the rest of the coverage of shots that season. This is congruent with testimony that Hannum wanted him to shoot jumpers less, at least during the Sixers years - as he definitely still took the fall away shot a lot in '64 footage under Hannum as a Warrior.

*In footage after '68 he's back to shooting the jumper on a regular basis, however he no longer shoots it from the right block.

[CavaliersFTW]

Does the finger roll count as at the rim, or as a not at the rim paint shot? If it's at the rim, I could see it bringing down his at rim percentage, especially if he stopped using it later on.

I don't have any opinion one way or the other, just wondering. Maybe PHILA/Dipper 13 can let us know.
He never stopped using that shot, that was his bread and butter finishing move for his entire NBA career, I have footage of him taking that shot routinely from his first games as a rookie all the way to literally the last game of his career, and every season in between

[trueDS]

CavaliersFTW,

I will use two first Wilt's seasons as example (he probably shot the most fadeaways in his first years). We know that he made 46.1% FG in 1960 and 50.9% in 1961. Knowing that we can see how his at rim and non at rim shots FG% would look if we assume what % of his all shots were "at rim" shots and how efficient he was making them. Of course that's just assumptions, so I will present different possibilities and I would like you to chose one which is in your opinion the closets to the truth. If neither is, then please explain why (show numbers, so how many Wilt's shots in your opinion were at rim shots and how efficient he was making them).

1. if 50% of all Wilt's shots were at rim shots then his FG% from all other types of shots would be:

1.1. if his at rim shots FG% was 60%, then it means his not at rim shots % was 32.2% in 1960 and 41.8% in 1961

1.2. if his at rim shots FG% was 70%, then it means his non at rim shots % was 22.2% in 1960 and 31.8% in 1961

1.3. if his at rim shots FG% was 80%, then it means his non at rim shots % was 12.2% in 1960 and 21.8% in 1961

2. if 60% of all Wilt's shots were at rim shots then his FG% from all other types of shots would be:

2.1. if his at rim shots FG% was 60%, then it means his not at rim shots % was 25.2% in 1960 and 37.3% in 1961

2.2. if his at rim shots FG% was 70%, then it means his non at rim shots % was 10.2% in 1960 and 22.3% in 1961

2.3. if his at rim shots FG% was 80%, then it means his non at rim shots % was -4.8% ("-" so it means it's impossible he shot 80% at rim and at rim shots were 60% of his all shots that year) in 1960 and 7.3% in 1961

3. if 70% of all Wilt's shots were at rim shots then his FG% from all other types of shots would be:

3.1. if his at rim shots FG% was 60%, then it means his not at rim shots % was 13.6% in 1960 and 29.7% in 1961

3.2. if his at rim shots FG% was 70%, then it means his non at rim shots % was -9.7% ("-" so it's impossible he shot 70% FG% at rim and at rim shots were 70% of his all shots) in 1960 and 6.4% in 1961

3.3. if his at rim shots FG% was 80%, then it means his non at rim shots % was -33.1% in 1960 and -16.9% in 1961 ("-" so in both cases it's impossible he shot 80% at rim and at rim shots were 70% of his all shots)

So 9 possibilities, which are the most probably? In my opinion 3.1. or 2.2., but I would like to know what do you (or any other person for that matter ;)) think.

[fpliii]

EDIT - Redacted. I'll need to look over my data before I can answer DS's question.

[JohnFreeman]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Wilt%20Chamberlain/GIFs/1972wiltblocksjackson.gif

Get out of here Pjax

[La Frescobaldi]

CavaliersFTW,

I will use two first Wilt's seasons as example (he probably shot the most fadeaways in his first years). We know that he made 46.1% FG in 1960 and 50.9% in 1961. Knowing that we can see how his at rim and non at rim shots FG% would look if we assume what % of his all shots were "at rim" shots and how efficient he was making them. Of course that's just assumptions, so I will present different possibilities and I would like you to chose one which is in your opinion the closets to the truth. If neither is, then please explain why (show numbers, so how many Wilt's shots in your opinion were at rim shots and how efficient he was making them).

1. if 50% of all Wilt's shots were at rim shots then his FG% from all other types of shots would be:

1.1. if his at rim shots FG% was 60%, then it means his not at rim shots % was 32.2% in 1960 and 41.8% in 1961

1.2. if his at rim shots FG% was 70%, then it means his non at rim shots % was 22.2% in 1960 and 31.8% in 1961

1.3. if his at rim shots FG% was 80%, then it means his non at rim shots % was 12.2% in 1960 and 21.8% in 1961

2. if 60% of all Wilt's shots were at rim shots then his FG% from all other types of shots would be:

2.1. if his at rim shots FG% was 60%, then it means his not at rim shots % was 25.2% in 1960 and 37.3% in 1961

2.2. if his at rim shots FG% was 70%, then it means his non at rim shots % was 10.2% in 1960 and 22.3% in 1961

2.3. if his at rim shots FG% was 80%, then it means his non at rim shots % was -4.8% ("-" so it means it's impossible he shot 80% at rim and at rim shots were 60% of his all shots that year) in 1960 and 7.3% in 1961

3. if 70% of all Wilt's shots were at rim shots then his FG% from all other types of shots would be:

3.1. if his at rim shots FG% was 60%, then it means his not at rim shots % was 13.6% in 1960 and 29.7% in 1961

3.2. if his at rim shots FG% was 70%, then it means his non at rim shots % was -9.7% ("-" so it's impossible he shot 70% FG% at rim and at rim shots were 70% of his all shots) in 1960 and 6.4% in 1961

3.3. if his at rim shots FG% was 80%, then it means his non at rim shots % was -33.1% in 1960 and -16.9% in 1961 ("-" so in both cases it's impossible he shot 80% at rim and at rim shots were 70% of his all shots)

So 9 possibilities, which are the most probably? In my opinion 3.1. or 2.2., but I would like to know what do you (or any other person for that matter ;)) think.


All this is cool work and all, but you miss the bigger picture of Wilt Chamberlain. Aside from free throws where as far as I know efficiency was always celebrated, Chamberlain basically invented the entire concept of offensive efficiency.

His work in '67 & '68 in that area - exactly like every other area of basketball - set standards which have never been approached. 35 shots in a row, 9 triple doubles in a row, quadruple doubles in the playoffs.... Those kinds of things are completely untouched. Exactly as he trailblazed all the areas of basketball.... rebounding, scoring, blocking shots. etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., where lesser players have tried to follow.... he basically invented efficiency too:

* NBA Record - Most consecutive seasons leading NBA in field goal percentage (5, from 1964-65 through 1968-69)
Tied with Shaquille O'Neal

* NBA Record - Highest Field Goal Percentage in a season (72.7% in 1972-73)
Chamberlain also holds the second highest percentage with 68.3% in 1966-67

* NBA Record - Most consecutive field goals (35 from February 17-28, 1967)
* NBA Record - Most field goals in a game without a miss (18, Philadelphia 76ers vs. the Baltimore Bullets on February 24, 1967)

* Chamberlain also holds the next two most with 16 (March 19, 1967) and 15 (January 20, 1967)

You can get more efficient than 100%, not even if you're Wilt Chamberlain.

[trueDS]

All this is cool work and all, but you miss the bigger picture of Wilt Chamberlain. Aside from free throws where as far as I know efficiency was always celebrated, Chamberlain basically invented the entire concept of offensive efficiency.

His work in '67 & '68 in that area - exactly like every other area of basketball - set standards which have never been approached. 35 shots in a row, 9 triple doubles in a row, quadruple doubles in the playoffs.... Those kinds of things are completely untouched. Exactly as he trailblazed all the areas of basketball.... rebounding, scoring, blocking shots. etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., where lesser players have tried to follow.... he basically invented efficiency too:

* NBA Record - Most consecutive seasons leading NBA in field goal percentage (5, from 1964-65 through 1968-69)
Tied with Shaquille O'Neal

* NBA Record - Highest Field Goal Percentage in a season (72.7% in 1972-73)
Chamberlain also holds the second highest percentage with 68.3% in 1966-67

* NBA Record - Most consecutive field goals (35 from February 17-28, 1967)
* NBA Record - Most field goals in a game without a miss (18, Philadelphia 76ers vs. the Baltimore Bullets on February 24, 1967)

* Chamberlain also holds the next two most with 16 (March 19, 1967) and 15 (January 20, 1967)

You can get more efficient than 100%, not even if you're Wilt Chamberlain.

That's not answer to my question ;]

Really Wilt's fans, just pick one answer or propose another possible from mathematical point of view.

[fpliii]

That's not answer to my question ;]

Really Wilt's fans, just pick one answer or propose another possible from mathematical point of view.
I'm not a Wilt fan, but I'm wondering if you think this is reasonable:

%rim FG% %else FG% tot FG% FT%
60-61 0.40 70.0% 0.60 34.3% 48.6% 54.2%
62-63 0.40 70.0% 0.60 39.3% 51.6% 60.4%
64-66 0.40 70.0% 0.60 40.7% 52.4% 50.4%
67-68 0.70 70.0% 0.30 48.3% 63.5% 41.0%
69-73 0.70 70.0% 0.30 38.3% 60.5% 47.5%

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm not a Wilt fan, but I'm wondering if you think this is reasonable:

%rim FG% %else FG% tot FG% FT%
60-61 0.40 70.0% 0.60 34.3% 48.6% 54.2%
62-63 0.40 70.0% 0.60 39.3% 51.6% 60.4%
64-66 0.40 70.0% 0.60 40.7% 52.4% 50.4%
67-68 0.70 70.0% 0.30 48.3% 63.5% 41.0%
69-73 0.70 70.0% 0.30 38.3% 60.5% 47.5%
What good is playing around with fictitious numbers when the guy who is proposing them doesn't even seem to understand how the game was played back then?

I suggest to DS, to quietly learn more, and project opinions less. Seems like he has opinions that are pre-formed despite a lack of data, if there is a lack of data he seems to make up his own data. Then he proceeds to state revealing Wilt footage is 'not very valuable/important' Kinda silly no?

[trueDS]

I'm not a Wilt fan, but I'm wondering if you think this is reasonable:

%rim FG% %else FG% tot FG% FT%
60-61 0.40 70.0% 0.60 34.3% 48.6% 54.2%
62-63 0.40 70.0% 0.60 39.3% 51.6% 60.4%
64-66 0.40 70.0% 0.60 40.7% 52.4% 50.4%
67-68 0.70 70.0% 0.30 48.3% 63.5% 41.0%
69-73 0.70 70.0% 0.30 38.3% 60.5% 47.5%

I will check it later, but it's difficult to believe center shot less than 50% of his shots at rim.

[trueDS]

What good is playing around with fictitious numbers when the guy who is proposing them doesn't even seem to understand how the game was played back then?

I suggest to DS, to quietly learn more, and project opinions less. Seems like he has opinions that are pre-formed despite a lack of data, if there is a lack of data he seems to make up his own data. Then he proceeds to state revealing Wilt footage is 'not very valuable/important' Kinda silly no?

Could you answer to question: what in your opinion was Wilt's FG% at rim and what % of his all shots were at rim shots?

[CavaliersFTW]

Could you answer to question: what in your opinion was Wilt's FG% at rim and what % of his all shots were at rim shots?
I'm not going to give you fictitious numbers, what is the point? Phila's shot chart reveals a few fragments of what you seek to know, so long as you understand what games they came from, when those games were played which can effect his role, and just how few there are. My project when finished, will reveal quite a bit more about his scoring habits, so patiently wait for it, trust me it is rather revealing in assessing how he scored the lion share of his points. Also probably most of all ask questions and listen to people like La Fresco who watched Wilt play. You're asking for stuff that isn't possible, you're an advanced stats era-minded fan, but you won't get advanced stats from Wilt, they don't exist.

[trueDS]

I'm not going to give you fictitious numbers, what is the point?

The point is to know your opinion, because either you think early Wilt was weak at rim finisher or you are overrating his fadeaway shots. There's no other possibility (and if is, then please show it from mathematical point of view).

[CavaliersFTW]

The point is to know your opinion, because either you think early Wilt was weak at rim finisher or you overrating his fadeaway shots. There's no other possibility.
Incorrect, having no opinion at all on the subject is a possibility.

[trueDS]

Incorrect, having no opinion at all on the subject is a possibility.

By the way you are talking about Wilt one can say you clearly have opinion on that subject. But it's obvious you are afraid to answer that question, because it might put Wilt in bad light and expose him as "fadeaway shooter". So good luck with preparing highlights with only made shots and acting like it says much about Wilt. I'm done with this forum and no wonder most good posters from here migrated to realGM.

[CavaliersFTW]

By the way you are talking about Wilt one can say you clearly have opinion on that subject. But it's obvious you are afraid to answer that question, because it might put Wilt in bad light and expose him as "fadeaway shooter". So good luck with preparing highlights with only made shots and acting like it says much about Wilt. I'm done with this forum and no wonder most good posters from here migrated to realGM.
http://img.pandawhale.com/post-32449-ace-ventura-eye-roll-gif-Jim-C-FTgU.gif

[fpliii]

Not really related, but I'm wondering if you guys have a rough timeline for changes in Wilt's FT form? When did he start shooting from way behind the line, and when did he experiment with shooting underhand?

[CavaliersFTW]

Not really related, but I'm wondering if you guys have a rough timeline for changes in Wilt's FT form? When did he start shooting from way behind the line, and when did he experiment with shooting underhand?
There's clips of him shooting free throws every season I think, and from HS all the way to his final season there isn't much room for speculation it's just a matter of pinpointing, also there's a bit of testimonial out there as to why he switched his forms and when he was switching them. I'm not going to sidetrack myself with that right now, someone else who has payed attention to this can comment on that if they know. All I know offhand is his form changed from HS, to NCAA due to pain in his knees, and from at least his 5th season (maybe sooner though) until 1968 he shot underhand. From 1971-73 I know he was shooting one step back and one step to the left, not giving much of a f*ck at that point looking very defeated just being there in the first place :lol

[fpliii]

There's clips of him shooting free throws every season I think, and from HS all the way to his final season there isn't much room for speculation it's just a matter of pinpointing, also there's a bit of testimonial out there as to why he switched his forms and when he was switching them. I'm not going to sidetrack myself with that right now, someone else who has payed attention to this can comment on that if they know. All I know offhand is his form changed from HS, to NCAA due to pain in his knees, and from at least his 5th season (maybe sooner though) until 1968 he shot underhand. From 1971-73 I know he was shooting one step back and one step to the left, not giving much of a f*ck at that point looking very defeated just being there in the first place :lol
lol thanks, I don't want to distract you. :D

BTW, when you say 1971, you mean 70-71, or 71-72?

[La Frescobaldi]

By the way you are talking about Wilt one can say you clearly have opinion on that subject. But it's obvious you are afraid to answer that question, because it might put Wilt in bad light and expose him as "fadeaway shooter". So good luck with preparing highlights with only made shots and acting like it says much about Wilt. I'm done with this forum and no wonder most good posters from here migrated to realGM.


http://www.clker.com/cliparts/R/3/i/V/Q/c/guy-waving-bye-md.png

bye bye!!

[LAZERUSS]

I will check it later, but it's difficult to believe center shot less than 50% of his shots at rim.

It looks like the NBA started charting these exact shots beginning with the 2000-2001 season.

How about Shaq in that same season (and including the playoffs)?

1776 total FGAs

768 "at the rim", which from what I can gather, is 0-2 ft., or .43.2% of the time.

Now, how about this. Of those 768 shots "at the rim", Shaq made 603 of them, or .785. BUT, included were 300 dunks, of which he made 287 (.957.)

So, from 3 ft on out, Shaq shot a combined 401-1008, or .398.

In his 2001-2002 season, Shaq took a combined 1613 FGAs (regular season and playoffs), and made 915.

He took 783 shots "at the rim", or .485. Of those, (again 0-2 ft), he made a total of 586, or .748. BTW, he made 329 of 344 dunk attempts (.956.)

From 3 ft on, he made 329 of 830 FGAs, or .396. Hell, subtract his point-blank dunk attempts, and he made 586-1269, or .462. Just what in the hell was he doing taking anything but dunks?


Now, how about a typical Tim Duncan season? In his 05-06 season (and one in which he primarily a post-up center), he made a combined 695-1396 FGAs. Of those, he took 461 "at the rim" or .330 of his total shots.

"At the rim" (0-2 ft.) he made 335-461 shots, or a .727 FG%.

From 3 ft on out, he made 360-935 FG/FGA, or a .385 FG%.

Again, ask yourself, why in the hell was Duncan shooting anything but 0-2 ft shots?


And to get back to the Wilt question. Using Duncan as an example, I REALLY believe that a 59-60 to 62-63 Wilt was taking FAR more 3+ foot shots than "at the rim" shots. IMHO, he was probably in the "Duncan" range, which would have meant that he was probably shooting around 40-45% from 3-12 to feet. Which would explain his "inefficient" shooting in those seasons.


BTW, how about a couple of Wilt's "inefficient" seasons, like his 61-62 and 62-63 seasons?

In his 61-62 season, he averaged 50.4 ppg on a .506 eFG%, in an NBA that shot an eFG% of .426. In his 62-63 season, he averaged 44.8 ppg on a .528 eFG%, in an NBA that shot an eFG% of .441.

Now, lets compare that with some other "greats" in their highest scoring seasons, shall we?

How about David Robinson in his highest scoring season? 29.8 ppg on an eFG% of .507, in an NBA that shot an eFG% of .485.

Oh, and how about Hakeem in his highest scoring season? 27.8 ppg on an eFG% of .517, in an NBA that shot an eFG% of...get this... .500!


Of course, we could compare Chamberlain's 65-66 season, in which he led the league in scoring, at 33.5 ppg, and in eFG%, at .540, in an NBA that shot an eFG% of .433.

Or, Chamberlain's unfathomable 66-67 season, when he averaged 24.1 ppg on an eFG% of .683, in an NBA that shot an eFG% of .441. BTW, during the regular season, he averaged 20.8 ppg on a .633 eFG% against Nate Thurmond: against Russell in the regular season, he averaged 20.3 ppg on a .549 eFG% (and then 21.6 ppg on a .556 eFG% in the EDF's against him); and against Bellamy, he averaged 22.7 ppg on a .709 eFG%.


The bottom line...a young Wilt just coming into the NBA was probably taking the vast majority of his shots from 5-12 ft. And that would explain those "inefficient" seasons of .461, .509, .506, and .528.

Oh, and once again...

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/quotes.html




Carl Braun said "He [Wilt] disorganizes you under the basket the same way [as Bill Russell, on defense]. With Wilt, of course, there's that offense on top of it, which is better than Russell's. He hit on all those jumpers."
"Yes, Wilt hit on those jumpers...Wilt did come into the league with a good touch from the outside, which made his early scoring that much more significant. He wasn't just dunking the ball then."

--Red Holzman. A View from the Bench. P.70



So, when CavsFan posts the very limited footage of Wilt that is available, I would contend that Wilt hitting 12-15 foot shots was not only common, but in fact, he was probably shooting them (especially his fade-away bank shots which Duncan would later copy) on a decent percentage.

[LAZERUSS]

I find these shooting splits fascinating.

The Wilt-bashers come up with blatantly fabricated theories that try to minimize Wilt's shooting, particular his early NBA career shooting, and yet, I see no one has responded to what I posted above.

Shaq, and even Duncan, had entire seasons (both regular season and post-season combined), in which they collectively shot .398, or worse, away "from the rim."

How about Vlade Divac in '03-04? From 3-10 feet... a .306 eFG%.

How about Garnett in his highest scoring season? From 3-10 feet... .414.

Once again, the NBA began tracking these shots from the 2000-2001 season, and Hakeem was nearing the end, but how about him in that season... from 3-10 feet... .363.

And Robinson in that same season? From 3-10 feet... .320.

[turnaroundJ]

Hey Laz what do you think about Wilt's finger roll?

[LAZERUSS]

Hey Laz what do you think about Wilt's finger roll?

One of the greatest offensive weapons in NBA history.

Again, using "at the rim", and 3-10 foot shooting, and I suspect the two greatest post scoring players in NBA history, were Kareem and Wilt.

And Shaq and Chamberlain were the two greatest "at the rim" players.

[turnaroundJ]

One of the greatest offensive weapons in NBA history.

Again, using "at the rim", and 3-10 foot shooting, and I suspect the two greatest post scoring players in NBA history, were Kareem and Wilt.

And Shaq and Chamberlain were the two greatest "at the rim" players.

Why did she shoot it facing backwards and/or fading away though? And sometimes at a distance (the 3-10 ft you're referring to)

Was that something he'd always done? I'm genuinely curious.

I've seen the highlights of course, but also some finals footage where he completely bricks some.

[LAZERUSS]

Why did she shoot it facing backwards and/or fading away though? And sometimes at a distance (the 3-10 ft you're referring to)

Was that something he'd always done? I'm genuinely curious.

I've seen the highlights of course, but also some finals footage where he completely bricks some.

That's the problem...

the only footage we have of Chamberlain equates to less 2% of his NBA career.

Still, and as I pointed out a few posts back, there is this massive misconception that the only way Wilt scored was by dunking. And the Wilt-bashers seem to think he couldn't do anything else. Yet, in the little footage we have of an early NBA Chamberlain, he was making a large percentage of 5-15 foot shots.

And we know, by those that were actually around in his early NBA career, that he had very good range (read quotes from peers in my post a few posts back.) That would explain his FG%'s of .461, .509, .506, and .528 in his first four seasons.

In the mid-60's, he narrowed his range and shot selection (and was still leading the league in scoring), and his FG%'s rose dramatically. And after his surgery, and into the 70's, he was primarily scoring "at the rim", which would explain his off-the-charts FG%'s.

I have read quotes from Thurmond, that he (Nate) could stop the finger-roll...but how does he explain a mid-60's Chamberlain routinely hanging 30+ point games against him (and even crushing him by margins of 38-15 and 45-13...as well as having an entire season of 21 ppg on a .633 FG% against him)?

An early NBA Wilt was just unstoppable from the standpoint that he could score from up to 15 feet. There was simply no way of defending him. And a mid-60's Chamberlain was only taking much better shots, and again, if he shot it, it too was unstoppable.

[LAZERUSS]

The Wilt-bashers will always try to minimize Chamberlain's scoring seasons, but they never acknowledge that a Wilt from 67-69 still put up the highest scoring games during those seasons.

And it's too bad that Wilt blew out his knee in the ninth game of his 69-70 season. His new coach, Joe Mullaney, had asked Wilt to focus on scoring again, and in those first nine games, Wilt responded by leading the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (and on a .579 FG%.) Included were games of 33, 35, 37 (against 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle), 38 (against reigning MVP Wes Unseld), 42 (against Bob Rule), and 43 points. Oh, and in his one H2H with Kareem before that injury, he just shelled Alcindor in every facet of the game (he outscored him, 25-23; outrebounded him, 25-20; outassisted him, 5-2; outblocked him 3-2; and outshot him from the field, 9-14 to 9-21.)

So, here was a 33 year old Wilt, on his way to yet another scoring title, and doing so with a spectacular FG%, too. Oh, and a one-legged Wilt, only four months removed from major knee surgery, still put up a 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, .625 FG% seven game Finals.

[LAZERUSS]

I'm not a Wilt fan, but I'm wondering if you think this is reasonable:

%rim FG% %else FG% tot FG% FT%
60-61 0.40 70.0% 0.60 34.3% 48.6% 54.2%
62-63 0.40 70.0% 0.60 39.3% 51.6% 60.4%
64-66 0.40 70.0% 0.60 40.7% 52.4% 50.4%
67-68 0.70 70.0% 0.30 48.3% 63.5% 41.0%
69-73 0.70 70.0% 0.30 38.3% 60.5% 47.5%

If a prime Shaq was only taking 45% of his shots "at the rim", then I suspect an early NBA Wilt (from 59-60 thru 62-63) was probably more "Duncan-like" and was around 30-35%. Which would have put his 3+ foot range shooting in the 40-45% (maybe even higher) category. And in reality, I suspect that Wilt's range from 60-63 was probably around 5-10 ft, on average, with a considerable amount of shots from 10-15 ft.

[CavaliersFTW]

Why did she shoot it facing backwards and/or fading away though? And sometimes at a distance (the 3-10 ft you're referring to)

Was that something he'd always done? I'm genuinely curious.

I've seen the highlights of course, but also some finals footage where he completely bricks some.
So? I've seen Jordan completely brick dunks, was it truthfully a bad shot perhaps? :facepalm :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

So? I've seen Jordan completely brick dunks, bad shot perhaps? :facepalm :oldlol:

Fatal posted footage of a Wilt, chasing down a shot at the sideline, and then stumbling to fire up a shot that clanked off the top of the backboard. It was an obvious attempt to disparage Wilt's offense. Of course, he never mentioned that the 24 second clock was about to expire either.

BTW, I remember PHILA posting footage of Shaq, from about five feet away, shooting an air-ball.

[fpliii]

If a prime Shaq was only taking 45% of his shots "at the rim", then I suspect an early NBA Wilt (from 59-60 thru 62-63) was probably more "Duncan-like" and was around 30-35%. Which would have put his 3+ foot range shooting in the 40-45% (maybe even higher) category. And in reality, I suspect that Wilt's range from 60-63 was probably around 5-10 ft, on average, with a considerable amount of shots from 10-15 ft.
That's possible too, I was just speculating.

BTW do you have an idea of roughly during which seasons Wilt shot free throws underhanded, and when he started the far back and to the side of the line routine? CavsFTW gave some good responses above, just wondering what your thoughts are.

[LAZERUSS]

For those that somehow believe that an early Chamberlain was taking 75% from "at the rim", here are a prime Shaq's numbers, from his 00-01 season (and again, we don't have anything before that season)...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01/shooting/2001/

Clearly, a prime Shaq was probably taking a far greater percentage of his "at the rim" shots than an early Wilt. BUT, it was STILL only 43.2% of the time. The more interesting comparison would have been a mid-60's Chamberlain, particularly in his 66-67 season.

[stanlove1111]

The Wilt-bashers will always try to minimize . Oh, and in his one H2H with Kareem before that injury, he just shelled Alcindor in every facet of the game (he outscored him, 25-23; outrebounded him, 25-20; outassisted him, 5-2; outblocked him 3-2; and outshot him from the field, 9-14 to 9-21.)

So, here was a 33 year old Wilt, on his way to yet another scoring title, and doing so with a spectacular FG%, too. Oh, and a one-legged Wilt, only four months removed from major knee surgery, still put up a 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, .625 FG% seven game Finals
.


Love your videos. But you really don't care about being taken seriously do you?

He SHELLED Alcinder. Come on.

[LAZERUSS]

That's possible too, I was just speculating.

BTW do you have an idea of roughly during which seasons Wilt shot free throws underhanded, and when he started the far back and to the side of the line routine? CavsFTW gave some good responses above, just wondering what your thoughts are.

I only saw Wilt from 63-64 on. He was shooting under-handed by then. And I can't exactly when he went to the 18 ft FT attempts, but I believe it was after his knee injury.

What was interesting, though, was the fact that a college, and then an early-NBA Wilt actually had very good form. And while he was not a good FT shooter then, he was around the 60% mark (and often had spectacular games from the line.) Clearly, "hack-a-Wilt" in his early years was not worth it.

[LAZERUSS]

Love your videos. But you really don't care about being taken seriously do you?

He SHELLED Alcinder. Come on.

In EVERY facet of the game.

Makes you wonder what a PRIME Chamberlain would have carpet-bombed him with, doesn't it?

[La Frescobaldi]

Why did she shoot it facing backwards and/or fading away though? And sometimes at a distance (the 3-10 ft you're referring to)

Was that something he'd always done? I'm genuinely curious.

I've seen the highlights of course, but also some finals footage where he completely bricks some.

The finger roll was a counter.

Wilt's main move off the block, of course, was the power dunk. But he had a whole series of counters:

* He would spin off either shoulder for the dunk;
* He would spin toward the baseline, past the help defender, and go under the basket for the dunk;
* He would spin away from the basket for the turnaround fadeaway;
* He would spin away from the basket, take a step towards the free throw line, spin and shoot an 8 foot jumper;
* He would spin towards the baseline and shoot a hook shot;
* He would spin away from the basket, and put up the finger roll.

In Philly he had a whole team of excellent outside shooters, and they ran the triangle with all those cutters..... his offensive game became just overkill. In LA, Wilt had the same offensive skills but he was the third option, 4th or not at all. He would take 2 or 3 shots, a lot of games none at all.

Wilt used to go to the playgrounds in Philly or NYC in the summers and you could watch him in the afternoons or in the evening, running Mikan drills, practicing his hook shot, and polishing his enormous repertoire. He did it by the hour, and he would draw enormous crowds - especially there would be girls. Girls everywhere!!
Every one of those moves was a "go-to" move - you had to defend each one of them as a #1 threat - which of course, made him unstoppable.

edit ~~ those moves all started from this position right here:

http://cbsphilly.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/wilt-chamberlain.jpg%3Fw%3D300

http://www.nba.com/bulls/sites/bulls/files/content/images-top/2013/03/wilt_130325.jpg

If you got stuck down low with him like that, it was just too bad.

[Psileas]

For those that somehow believe that an early Chamberlain was taking 75% from "at the rim", here are a prime Shaq's numbers, from his 00-01 season (and again, we don't have anything before that season)...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01/shooting/2001/

Clearly, a prime Shaq was probably taking a far greater percentage of his "at the rim" shots than an early Wilt. BUT, it was STILL only 43.2% of the time. The more interesting comparison would have been a mid-60's Chamberlain, particularly in his 66-67 season.

That's an enlightening graph. Since "at rim" shots are considered only the ones taken from <3 feet away and the pretty much most "bulldozer" prime versions of Shaq, the player who had by far the most dunks than any other since the early 90's, were taking less than 60% and, at times, less than 50% of their shots from that range, any notion of young Wilt (=the one trying to play with finesse and style rather than with power) taking 60-70% of their shots at rim is ridiculous. I especially feel so for rookie Wilt, who shot by far a career-low in FG%, yet his FT% was the 3rd highest of his career. This makes me suspect that rookie Wilt had by far the worst shooting selections of his career and therefore not many "at rim" shots at all.

[LAZERUSS]

That's an enlightening graph. Since "at rim" shots are considered only the ones taken from <3 feet away and the pretty much most "bulldozer" prime versions of Shaq, the player who had by far the most dunks than any other since the early 90's, were taking less than 60% and, at times, less than 50% of their shots from that range, any notion of young Wilt (=the one trying to play with finesse and style rather than with power) taking 60-70% of their shots at rim is ridiculous. I especially feel so for rookie Wilt, who shot by far a career-low in FG%, yet his FT% was the 3rd highest of his career. This makes me suspect that rookie Wilt had by far the worst shooting selections of his career and therefore not many "at rim" shots at all.

And again, I suspect that in his first four seasons, Chamberlain was probably shooting 40-45+% from the field from 3-10 feet, which was better than Duncan, and other's at times, in their careers.

[CavaliersFTW]

A preliminary look at the offensive rebound scoring section

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=askEKNB1ydY

[fpliii]

A preliminary look at the offensive rebound scoring section

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OENXKgHKmhQ
:applause:

A lot of great audio. BTW I noticed that on the putback, Wilt often went back up strong with a right- or two-handed dunk. I do agree that the finger roll was pleasant to look at and he mastered it as well as anybody could, but it's nice to see that after grabbing the offensive board, it was usually all power.

[CavaliersFTW]

:applause:

A lot of great audio. BTW I noticed that on the putback, Wilt often went back up strong with a right- or two-handed dunk. I do agree that the finger roll was pleasant to look at and he mastered it as well as anybody could, but it's nice to see that after grabbing the offensive board, it was usually all power.
Don't know how you watched it seems the video is stuck in 144p with a choppy frame rate because Youtube sucks at render times like that these days :oldlol: anyways yeah I'm pretty sure that's all his offensive rebound points I've collected, if not it's almost all of them, and most are dunks yes. The fact that he's off the ball too means he moves people out of his way inside virtually at will to get at the ball. You'll notice that as soon as Youtube decides to stop playing the video back at 144p

[fpliii]

Don't know how you watched it seems the video is stuck in 144p with a choppy frame rate because Youtube sucks at render times like that these days :oldlol: anyways yeah I'm pretty sure that's all his offensive rebound points I've collected, if not it's almost all of them, and most are dunks yes. The fact that he's off the ball too means he moves people out of his way inside virtually at will to get at the ball. You'll notice that as soon as Youtube decides to stop playing the video back at 144p
Good stuff, I'll check out the higher quality version tomorrow, then.

[Psileas]

From the footage I've seen, I don't remember anyone else being better at one handed, volleyball-style tip-ins than Wilt was. This kind of shot is a FG% pooper, yet Wilt seemed to score so at a pretty high conversion rate.

[CavaliersFTW]

From the footage I've seen, I don't remember anyone else being better at one handed, volleyball-style tip-ins than Wilt was. This kind of shot is a FG% pooper, yet Wilt seemed to score so at a pretty high conversion rate.
I've read Wilt used to practice tap ins for hours in his youth.

[CavaliersFTW]

minor update to the rebounding section http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=askEKNB1ydY

[CavaliersFTW]

minor update to the rebounding section http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=askEKNB1ydY
Anyone else watch this section yet? Thoughts?

[fpliii]

Anyone else watch this section yet? Thoughts?
Is the content different from the one above, or is it just higher quality? I'll watch it when I get home.

BTW did you ever settle on how to split the video up (if at all)?

[CavaliersFTW]

Is the content different from the one above, or is it just higher quality? I'll watch it when I get home.

BTW did you ever settle on how to split the video up (if at all)?
Haven't settled on whether or not I'm splitting the passing yet but definitely for scoring it will be

Right block

Left block

Deep catches

Lobs

Transition

2-man

ORB

[Pointguard]

Good stuff oftentimes the audio is so good I lose focus.

This is great. I thought you were going to do it in scouting report style...

Rebounds:

Ability to gather himself quickly,
Bounce and second jump,
tapping skills,
rebounding in traffic.

But its great the way it is.

[CavaliersFTW]

Good stuff oftentimes the audio is so good I lose focus.

This is great. I thought you were going to do it in scouting report style...

Rebounds:

Ability to gather himself quickly,
Bounce and second jump,
tapping skills,
rebounding in traffic.

But its great the way it is.

If I was to include text like what you pointed out above it would take me a bit longer and you guys would need to help create/suggest these sub-categories such as what you've just done here, i'd need you guys to review the greater collection of clips and help sort from there what his strengths appear to be. The audio I like to have just to mask the music, the music alone sometimes is 'blocked' in countries but if I mask it with dialogue/etc everyone can see it plus it's just cool to hear, I try to keep it pertinent to each section. Anyways, I'm open to labeling what he's doing if you think I should it will just take a bit more time and organization and I will need feedback from you guys like what you've just given. What do you think?

[Pointguard]

If I was to include text like what you pointed out above it would take me a bit longer and you guys would need to help create/suggest these sub-categories such as what you've just done here, i'd need you guys to review the greater collection of clips and help sort from there what his strengths appear to be. The audio I like to have just to mask the music, the music alone sometimes is 'blocked' in countries but if I mask it with dialogue/etc everyone can see it plus it's just cool to hear, I try to keep it pertinent to each section. Anyways, I'm open to labeling what he's doing if you think I should it will just take a bit more time and organization and I will need feedback from you guys like what you've just given. What do you think?

Audio is great - so good I have to watch it twice because I was distracted in a good way.

You don't need more than four categories in rebounding and three might be better??? I don't want to suggest everything but I will lay out a basic template and you should reject probably half on what you know you have. And other people here will come up with better ideas.

Off the top of my head from this and another one I seen lately:


Tenacity.
Agility Ability to run the court, alley oops
In transition



Defense
Range coverage
.......lateral quickness
.......Radius from the basket

Use of size and strength
......vertical extension
......timing

Intimidation and second guessing

Offense
Post moves

Adjustments
......Spins
.......Left or Right

Touch

This is probably good enough and limits the organization time down some.

[fpliii]

Just watched the 720p version, good stuff. The clips look great, and the audio is excellent (no clue how you find these gems :cheers: ).

So I'm thinking my recommendation for the main video would be:

1) intro
2) left block:
-primary move
-counter(s)
3) right block:
-primary move
-counter(s)
4) offensive rebounding

I think this would cover the bulk of his half-court scoring, which I think was the inspiration for the video. Though that still leaves:

Deep catches
Lobs
Transition
2-man

Maybe you should group offensive rebounding in with those categories? What do you want to do with passing (is that part of two man, or are those scores by Wilt)?

Also, did you decide if you're going to include a segment on high post play, and include some of his top of the key shooting from college? You could also include passing and screen-setting from the FT line (though I believe you and several others have said the time he spent in the high post is largely overstated).

[fpliii]

Actually, splitting into primary moves and counters might not be a great idea, since it'll remove the fluidity of the video and make it a difficult watch. Your call, you're the editing master here.

:cheers:

[LAZERUSS]

Just watched the 720p version, good stuff. The clips look great, and the audio is excellent (no clue how you find these gems :cheers: ).

So I'm thinking my recommendation for the main video would be:

1) intro
2) left block:
-primary move
-counter(s)
3) right block:
-primary move
-counter(s)
4) offensive rebounding

I think this would cover the bulk of his half-court scoring, which I think was the inspiration for the video. Though that still leaves:

Deep catches
Lobs
Transition
2-man

Maybe you should group offensive rebounding in with those categories? What do you want to do with passing (is that part of two man, or are those scores by Wilt)?

Also, did you decide if you're going to include a segment on high post play, and include some of his top of the key shooting from college? You could also include passing and screen-setting from the FT line (though I believe you and several others have said the time he spent in the high post is largely overstated).

I absolutely concur. As I have stated before, there are those that claimed that Wilt came into the NBA with a good outside shot (at least to 15 ft.) And I honestly believe that an early-NBA Wilt was routinely taking 10-15 ft shots, which is one of the reasons his FG% was considerably lower in those years, than from the mid-60's on.

[LAZERUSS]

As a sidenote, I think Chamberlain's best footage comes in his "masked" season. He is just overwhelming in that footage.

[CavaliersFTW]

Purely from scoring I've got:

Physical Profile/Attributes

Left Block

Lobs/Deep catches/Transition

Offensive Rebounding

In a relatively completed state, and the video is already 23 minutes long. Looks like I will be breaking up passing and scoring, because I haven't even put the Right Block and Backdoor/P&R/Give and Go sections together yet, which I'm guessing will be at least another 10-12 minutes.

[LAZERUSS]

Purely from scoring I've got:

Physical Profile/Attributes

Left Block

Lobs/Deep catches/Transition

Offensive Rebounding

In a relatively completed state, and the video is already 23 minutes long. Looks like I will be breaking up passing and scoring, because I haven't even put the Right Block and Backdoor/P&R/Give and Go sections together yet, which I'm guessing will be at least another 10-12 minutes.

I wouldn't have a problem with a long video, but I suspect that many other's might. Perhaps you should break them up into parts?

[CavaliersFTW]

I wouldn't have a problem with a long video, but I suspect that many other's might. Perhaps you should break them up into parts?
I am going to break it up, into scoring - and passing - and maybe a defensive video in the future. I'm going to at least keep the scoring all together though.

[LAZERUSS]

I am going to break it up, into scoring - and passing - and maybe a defensive video in the future. I'm going to at least keep the scoring all together though.

Excellent.

[LAZERUSS]

I mentioned it a while back, but what do you think of Chamberlain's "masked" footage? He is just flat-out overwhelming in the footage that exists.

[CavaliersFTW]

I mentioned it a while back, but what do you think of Chamberlain's "masked" footage? He is just flat-out overwhelming in the footage that exists.
Well it should, it's a glimpse of him in his prime, and the masked footage against Thurmond I believe actually was a few clips from one of his 40+ point games... some of the only clips we've got when he was in a genuine 'attack' mode. I've also got footage of him as a rookie that looks overwhelming so I think it's just a product of him being quicker and more agile than he was as a Laker and being less... disinterested towards scoring shall we say, which is how he is in most of the footage that exists. I stumbled on some new clips today that I forgot I had that show him duplicating some right block moves he put on Jabbar but from 10 years prior doing it to Bill Russell and his agility, lift and balance executing the identical move looks much greater in the footage of him at a younger age.

[rhowen4]

I am so excited to see this, no pun intended of course. Godspeed.

[LAZERUSS]

Well it should, it's a glimpse of him in his prime, and the masked footage against Thurmond I believe actually was a few clips from one of his 40+ point games... some of the only clips we've got when he was in a genuine 'attack' mode. I've also got footage of him as a rookie that looks overwhelming so I think it's just a product of him being quicker and more agile than he was as a Laker and being less... disinterested towards scoring shall we say, which is how he is in most of the footage that exists. I stumbled on some new clips today that I forgot I had that show him duplicating some right block moves he put on Jabbar but from 10 years prior doing it to Bill Russell and his agility, lift and balance executing the identical move looks much greater in the footage of him at a younger age.

Not that an earlier NBA Chamberlain wasn't dominant, but a mid-60's Wilt just slaughtered Reed, Bellamy, Thurmond, and Russell in his H2H's.

[fpliii]

I mentioned it a while back, but what do you think of Chamberlain's "masked" footage? He is just flat-out overwhelming in the footage that exists.
That one ASG (I think it's 62?) and the footage PHILA found from that game where Wilt breaks the scoring record I believe are both pretty good too IMO.

[fpliii]

Purely from scoring I've got:

Physical Profile/Attributes

Left Block

Lobs/Deep catches/Transition

Offensive Rebounding

In a relatively completed state, and the video is already 23 minutes long. Looks like I will be breaking up passing and scoring, because I haven't even put the Right Block and Backdoor/P&R/Give and Go sections together yet, which I'm guessing will be at least another 10-12 minutes.
Nice.

[LAZERUSS]

That one ASG (I think it's 62?) and the footage PHILA found from that game where Wilt breaks the scoring record I believe are both pretty good too IMO.

Yeah, Wilt was very impressive in that ASG (42 points on 17-23 shooting.) It's just too bad that there is so little footage of an early-NBA Chamberlain.

[CavaliersFTW]

Purely from scoring I've got:

Physical Profile/Attributes

Left Block

Lobs/Deep catches/Transition

Offensive Rebounding

In a relatively completed state, and the video is already 23 minutes long. Looks like I will be breaking up passing and scoring, because I haven't even put the Right Block and Backdoor/P&R/Give and Go sections together yet, which I'm guessing will be at least another 10-12 minutes.
Here is an upload of the sections i mentioned

EDIT (link removed, old)

[fpliii]

Here is an upload of the sections i mentioned

http://youtu.be/0iw95y9QiZ0
:applause:

Just watched the Lobs/Deep catches/Transition section, good stuff.

I actually like the dub of Wilt as part of the audio. It's a nice touch.

[fpliii]

Wait, 10-12 minutes for the right block and two-man stuff? That's good to hear, I was under the impression that there's not much good right block footage out there.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wait, 10-12 minutes for the right block and two-man stuff? That's good to hear, I was under the impression that there's not much good right block footage out there.
Oh there's plenty, right block is his primary outlet for the finger roll, there should be as much footage of him on the right block as there is of him on the left, or very nearly so, he was proficient on both sides.

[CavaliersFTW]

:applause:

Just watched the Lobs/Deep catches/Transition section, good stuff.

I actually like the dub of Wilt as part of the audio. It's a nice touch.
2 new finger rolls in a row starting at 7:10 and another one at 7:25 added to the left block section, another ball fake dunk at 5:26

[fpliii]

Oh there's plenty, right block is his primary outlet for the finger roll, there should be as much footage of him on the right block as there is of him on the left, or very nearly so, he was proficient on both sides.
Very nice.

2 new finger rolls in a row starting at 7:10 and another one at 7:25 added to the left block section, another ball fake dunk at 5:26
Nice, just watched those plays. :cheers:

[CavaliersFTW]

Anyone willing to help get some preliminary field goal counts?

http://youtu.be/P2zwdINBRkM

Still missing the 2 sections (2 man game and right block) but I'm thinking I want to premise the final video by stating the estimated % of his career fgm that exists on film at the very start of the final project. If I get some counts of field goals of these completed sections it will be easier for me to just add them to the final two sections.

[fpliii]

Anyone willing to help get some preliminary field goal counts?

http://youtu.be/P2zwdINBRkM

Still missing the 2 sections (2 man game and right block) but I'm thinking I want to premise the final video by stating the estimated % of his career fgm that exists on film at the very start of the final project. If I get some counts of field goals of these completed sections it will be easier for me to just add them to the final two sections.
I can take a look at the left block when I get home. Maybe someone else can try the offensive rebounding and finishing/transition (the plays happen pretty quickly so it might be hard to keep track of them).

[CavaliersFTW]

I can take a look at the left block when I get home. Maybe someone else can try the offensive rebounding and finishing/transition (the plays happen pretty quickly so it might be hard to keep track of them).
youtube has a .25 and .5 playback speed function now which should help

[fpliii]

youtube has a .25 and .5 playback speed function now which should help
Ah, didn't know that. Well, I'll try it out then. Anything to help out. :cheers:

[jongib369]

Ah, didn't know that. Well, I'll try it out then. Anything to help out. :cheers:
If I can find the time I'll count what fpliii doesn't. Slow mo helps a lot, it's the only reason I caught a missed fallaway jumper by Wilt that was tipped in by a teammate.

[CavaliersFTW]

Okay here's what I've got for Left Block:

Left block scoring 87 FGM on film, in this order (this accounts for duplicate footage of the same plays):
*Quick Baseline Spins/Drives (6) 6.9% of Left Block FGM
*Ball fake up and unders (3) 3.4% of Left Block FGM
*Bulldozing Drop steps (5) 5.7% of Left Block FGM
*Inside Step Finger Rolls (3) 3.4% of Left Block FGM
*Clear Path Drop Steps (due to fronted post) (14) 16.1% of Left Block FGM
*Outside Step Finger Rolls (19) 21.8% of Left Block FGM
*Outside Step Jump Hook shot (1) 1.2% of Left Block FGM
*Fall away Jump shots (36) 41.4% of Left Block FGM

Please correct me if my nomenclature/descriptive terms can be improved.

[fpliii]

Okay here's what I've got for Left Block:

Left block scoring 87 FGM on film
*Quick Baseline Spins/Drives (6) 6.9% of Left Block FGM
*Ball fake up and unders (3) 3.4% of Left Block FGM
*Bulldozing Drop steps (5) 5.7% of Left Block FGM
*Inside Step Finger Rolls (3) 3.4% of Left Block FGM
*Clear Path Drop Steps due to fronted post (14) 16.1% of Left Block FGM
*Outside Step Finger Roll (19) 21.8% of Left Block FGM
*Outside Step Jump Hook shot (1) 1.2% of Left Block FGM
*Fall away Jump shots (36) 41.4% of Left Block FGM

Please correct me if my nomenclature/descriptive terms can be improved.
Hm well the way I figure:

1) Generally when someone leaves the post-up, you'll hear they went baseline or to the middle.

2) Now, I'm not an authority, but can we call a finger roll itself a post move? Or just a shot type? I'd categorize the finger rolls by the move used to get the shot off, and group them in with drop steps or spin moves.

3) Speaking of drop steps and spin moves, how are we drawing the distinction? They look very similar.

4) Also, when you say inside do you mean towards the paint? Or towards the baseline?

Based on my understanding of your categories:

[CavaliersFTW]

Hm well the way I figure:

1) Generally when someone leaves the post-up, you'll hear they went baseline or to the middle.

2) Now, I'm not an authority, but can we call a finger roll itself a post move? Or just a shot type? I'd categorize the finger rolls by the move used to get the shot off, and group them in with drop steps or spin moves.

3) Speaking of drop steps and spin moves, how are we drawing the distinction? They look very similar.

4) Also, when you say inside do you mean towards the paint? Or towards the baseline?

Based on my understanding of your categories:

• baseline spins
• up and unders (the fake is understood, I don't think you need to say it)
• drop steps to the middle
• (I'd eliminated inside finger rolls and group them into middle drop steps, though maybe those can be combined)
• (I don't quite understand this category "Clear Path Drop Steps due to fronted post", can you elaborate or show a sample?)
• spins/steps to the baseline (I have trouble with this distinction as I said above)
• (I'd group this in with spins to the baseline)
• (I'd separate fadeaways into two categories depending on whether he turns over his left shoulder or right)

Just brainstorming, apologies if this makes little sense.

to the baseline or middle is how i was referring to 'inside' or 'outside' - thanks for pointing out the better terminology

a finger roll is just a finishing move not a post move, the post move would be what got Wilt into position to release the finger roll
(so I guess that would be a drop step to the middle... identical move used to get him into position for his 1 jump hook as well). Question though, is it different if he turns to the middle to release a finger roll than it is if he turns toward the middle around his defender but gets himself so close to the basket so as to be able to dunk? Is there a critical difference?

starting at 6:21 i lumped a series of 14 clips together of Wilt being defended by players fronting the post, I take it all of those would count as baseline drop steps?

Maybe watch the left block sequence again and let me know what your suggestions are for a better categorization and organization of the clips? Now's the time for me to make changes, I dont' want to make the video go public until it is ready and easy to understand. I will be able to duplicate the format for the right block.

[fpliii]

to the baseline or middle is how i was referring to 'inside' or 'outside' - thanks for pointing out the better terminology

a finger roll is just a finishing move not a post move, the post move would be what got Wilt into position to release the finger roll
(so I guess that would be a drop step to the middle... identical move used to get him into position for his 1 jump hook as well). Question though, is it different if he turns to the middle to release a finger roll than it is if he turns toward the middle around his defender but gets himself so close to the basket so as to be able to dunk? Is there a critical difference?

starting at 6:21 i lumped a series of 14 clips together of Wilt being defended by players fronting the post, I take it all of those would count as baseline drop steps?

Maybe watch the left block sequence again and let me know what your suggestions are for a better categorization and organization of the clips? Now's the time for me to make changes, I dont' want to make the video go public until it is ready and easy to understand. I will be able to duplicate the format for the right block.
I'm not sure about that. I think one might be considered the spin move, the other might be a drop step.

6:19 Okay, first play I'd say wasn't a post up. Wilt already got perfect position, so he won the battle beforehand.

6:24 I'm not sure about this. This is actually a very impressive play. Wilt seems to gather and roll baseline right into the defender and finished. It looks like he started with the drop step (when he gathers), though he launched off of two feet. Tough call.

6:26 Much like the first one, Wilt had already beaten his defender at this point I think (not 100% sure). If not, it would be a baseline drop step.

6:30 He already had won position here, but he used a baseline drop step.

6:34 Another drop step.

6:37 I don't think this was a post up, already had position.

6:42 Already had position, probably not a post up.

6:48 Definitely a drop step.

6:57 Already beat the defender, but the move was a drop step.

6:59 Drop step.

7:03 This is another tough play. We can't see his feet, but I think it's a drop step (impressively through, over the defender instead of around).

7:06 Nice baseline drop step.

7:08 Now this one I'm not sure about. There was no step taken as far as I can tell, but maybe I'm wrong. Spin move?

7:12 Can't tell, might also be a spin move.

For the last two, I'm not sure. The way I figure:

1) Drop step means you take a long step, lower center of gravity (rotation near the hip), maybe dribble to gather, and go right up.

2) With the spin move, the rotation is with the upper body instead. It's more of a quick, sweeping motion instead of a deliberate lunge toward the basket.

Again, I'm by no means an authority on this, hope it helps somewhat. I picked up a copy of Pete Newell's playing big, maybe I'll be able to better comment when I've had a chance to read it (though it might be too late then).

BTW I'm home now, do you still need counts on the other sections (it seems you've already figured counted the left block plays)?

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm not sure about that. I think one might be considered the spin move, the other might be a drop step.

6:19 Okay, first play I'd say wasn't a post up. Wilt already got perfect position, so he won the battle beforehand.

6:24 I'm not sure about this. This is actually a very impressive play. Wilt seems to gather and roll baseline right into the defender and finished. It looks like he started with the drop step (when he gathers), though he launched off of two feet. Tough call.

6:26 Much like the first one, Wilt had already beaten his defender at this point I think (not 100% sure). If not, it would be a baseline drop step.

6:30 He already had won position here, but he used a baseline drop step.

6:34 Another drop step.

6:37 I don't think this was a post up, already had position.

6:42 Already had position, probably not a post up.

6:48 Definitely a drop step.

6:57 Already beat the defender, but the move was a drop step.

6:59 Drop step.

7:03 This is another tough play. We can't see his feet, but I think it's a drop step (impressively through, over the defender instead of around).

7:06 Nice baseline drop step.

7:08 Now this one I'm not sure about. There was no step taken as far as I can tell, but maybe I'm wrong. Spin move?

7:12 Can't tell, might also be a spin move.

For the last two, I'm not sure. The way I figure:

1) Drop step means you take a long step, lower center of gravity (rotation near the hip), maybe dribble to gather, and go right up.

2) With the spin move, the rotation is with the upper body instead. It's more of a quick, sweeping motion instead of a deliberate lunge toward the basket.

Again, I'm by no means an authority on this, hope it helps somewhat. I picked up a copy of Pete Newell's playing big, maybe I'll be able to better comment when I've had a chance to read it (though it might be too late then).

BTW I'm home now, do you still need counts on the other sections (it seems you've already figured counted the left block plays)?
thanks for your input, it is appreciated, yes I counted the left block plays if you'd like and have time you can count any of the other sections, watch out for duplicate plays from different camera angles there are a few

[fpliii]

thanks for your input, it is appreciated, yes I counted the left block plays if you'd like and have time you can count any of the other sections, watch out for duplicate plays from different camera angles there are a few
Sure thing.

BTW I think those last two are indeed drop steps after a rewatch.

[fpliii]

For "Lobs, Deep catches and Transition scoring" (11:14-15:42) I counted 59. Maybe someone wants to double-check that.

[fpliii]

"Offensive Rebound Scoring" (15:44) I got 69. Again, could be off, so maybe someone should check my count.

[CavaliersFTW]

Excellent, thank you fpliii I may double check the counts at some point when I'm closer to the end but it's helpful to have a preliminary count

I was thinking about using this as a guide:
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/fundamentals/postplay.html

Pivots:

Front Pivot
Inside Pivot
Drop Step
Step Through
Sweep

Shot Types:

Layup
Jump Shot
Jump Hook

So Wilt's left block finger roll where he crab dribbles his way into the middle would be considered a Drop Step Layup, from the middle (A Crab Dribble from my understanding is a type of drop step), make sense? His 3 Drop Step Layups from the baseline are the same move, he just turned in towards the baseline as opposed to out in the middle. This would mean his Drop Step Dunks fall under the same category, he just got deeper position is the only difference. All his Fall Aways are Front Pivot Jump Shots

[fpliii]

Excellent, thank you fpliii I may double check the counts at some point when I'm closer to the end but it's helpful to have a preliminary count

I was thinking about using this as a guide:
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/fundamentals/postplay.html

Pivots:

Front Pivot
Inside Pivot
Drop Step
Step Through
Sweep

Shot Types:

Layup
Jump Shot
Jump Hook

So Wilt's left block finger roll where he crab dribbles his way into the middle would be considered a Drop Step Layup (A Crab Dribble from my understanding is a type of drop step), make sense? This would mean his Drop Step Dunks fall under the same category of move, he just got deeper position is the only difference. All his Fall Aways are Front Pivot Jump Shots
Makes some sense but I'm not very familiar with the terminology of the pivots to be perfectly honest. This is very interesting though:


Here's an explanation of some of the pivots:

All pivots start with your back to the basket and you are on the right block. Your feet are described as the pivot foot and the swing foot.

Basic Pivots

DROP STEP - Swing foot steps in a direct line to the front of the rim.

INSIDE PIVOT - Swing foot steps BACKWARD and scribes a 180 degree arc such that when you re-plant the foot you have turned completely and you are facing the basket.

FRONT PIVOT - Swing foot steps FORWARD and scribes a 180 degree arc such that when you re-plant the foot you have turned completely and you are facing the basket.

Counters - Second pivots to counter defense of the basic pivot

STEP THROUGH - After making an inside or front pivot and you are faced up and square to the to the basket, draw an imaginery line from your pivot foot to the front of the rim. Your swing foot "steps through" that line and toward the basket (think of having your legs crossed)

SWEEP - After making any pivot, your swing foot immediately steps on its own side to the basket (if your left foot is the pivot foot, your right foot steps to the right and to the basket). The name actually comes from the ball action being swept through your stance to get it out infront of your swing foot so you can make a long dribble to the basket.
My one concern is that the pivots seem to describe footwork specifically, but not necessarily the moves performed. At the moment, a lot of this shit is over my head technically-speaking. If you can understand it though, go for it. If not, you can always work on the other sections and finish the right/left block last.

idk

[CavaliersFTW]

finished up the right block section last night - lots of missing audio so apologies I'm currently re-organizing a lot of the audio clips and have taken a lot of them out or moved them temporarily

http://youtu.be/EAcmDUtYcb8?t=11m28s

anyone want to get a preliminary count?

This leaves only the 2 man game section to be finished as far as his NBA footage is concered (backdoor points, P&R, give and go)

*EDIT* I think I counted 69, worth double checking

[fpliii]

finished up the right block section last night - lots of missing audio so apologies I'm currently re-organizing a lot of the audio clips and have taken a lot of them out or moved them temporarily

http://youtu.be/EAcmDUtYcb8?t=11m28s

anyone want to get a preliminary count?

This leaves only the 2 man game section to be finished as far as his NBA footage is concered (backdoor points, P&R, give and go)

*EDIT* I think I counted 69, worth double checking
:bowdown: :bowdown:

Just giving it a look now. The first few plays are DEFINITE spin moves (I know we weren't sure about some on the left block). I counted 67 plays, I could be wrong though.

That move on Reed is great, and it seems the next couple of plays are similar, so it wasn't a one-time thing.

Nice to see a younger Russell (sans goatee I believe) at one point. That must've been very early footage of Wilt?

BTW those Bullets jerseys. :bowdown:

EDIT: Also worth noting that Wilt saw a lot more doubles on the right block, I guess opponents felt they needed help on the finger roll off of his right shoulder (at least a few were blind shots it seems, though it's hard to tell).

[CavaliersFTW]

:bowdown: :bowdown:

Just giving it a look now. The first few plays are DEFINITE spin moves (I know we weren't sure about some on the left block). I counted 67 plays, I could be wrong though.

That move on Reed is great, and it seems the next couple of plays are similar, so it wasn't a one-time thing.

Nice to see a younger Russell (sans goatee I believe) at one point. That must've been very early footage of Wilt?

BTW those Bullets jerseys. :bowdown:

EDIT: Also worth noting that Wilt saw a lot more doubles on the right block, I guess opponents felt they needed help on the finger roll off of his right shoulder (at least a few were blind shots it seems, though it's hard to tell).
I'll use your 67, thanks

[CavaliersFTW]

We are currently right at about 2% of his known career field goals made, if (I'm totally guessing here) we have about 60 or so '2 person game' buckets, than we might be looking at 2.4% of Wilt's career NBA field goals captured on film.

[millwad]

:bowdown: :bowdown:

Just giving it a look now. The first few plays are DEFINITE spin moves (I know we weren't sure about some on the left block). I counted 67 plays, I could be wrong though.

That move on Reed is great, and it seems the next couple of plays are similar, so it wasn't a one-time thing.

Nice to see a younger Russell (sans goatee I believe) at one point. That must've been very early footage of Wilt?

BTW those Bullets jerseys. :bowdown:

EDIT: Also worth noting that Wilt saw a lot more doubles on the right block, I guess opponents felt they needed help on the finger roll off of his right shoulder (at least a few were blind shots it seems, though it's hard to tell).

Just wanted to say that you're a great contributor to this board and your passion is awesome.

[fpliii]

Just wanted to say that you're a great contributor to this board and your passion is awesome.
:cheers:

[CavaliersFTW]

Finished a rough draft of everything (NBA scoring only), video is 35 minutes long, rendering now will be uploaded by some time tomorrow

[fpliii]

Finished a rough draft of everything (NBA scoring only), video is 35 minutes long, rendering now will be uploaded by some time tomorrow
:bowdown:

[CavaliersFTW]

I guarantee you the video will not be finished uploading and rendering for another 3 or 4 hours but it is uploading as we speak and I've got a final count of approximately 335 field goals, or 2.36% of his NBA career field goals

Another way of looking that is, we have approximately 28 games worth of his baskets captured on film. Check back on this thread tomorrow and the video should be finished uploading and ready to analyze.

[jlip]

It's up.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[fpliii]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Busy at work today but I'll watch when I get home.

[fpliii]

Watched up to 19:50 during my break, I'll try to catch the rest later. Good shit. Watching the video gives you an idea of how Wilt looked to score, and what his different moves/shots were.

[CavaliersFTW]

bump

[longhornfan1234]

It's up.

:applause: :applause: :applause:


Where's the link? :coleman:

[CavaliersFTW]

Where's the link? :coleman:
OP

[Round Mound]

:bowdown:

[LAZERUSS]

Excellent!

And, as a sidenote, the background commentaries are as brilliant as the footage.

I would still suggest adding Wilt's college scoring footage, at least his 10-15 ft shots, to this mix. Why? Because, there is just only a tiny fraction of Chamberlain's early NBA footage available, and I am convinced that his 60-63 NBA offense was much more similar to his college offense. And again, we have respected opinions claiming that Wilt came into the league with a very good outside game (which would somewhat explain his lower overall efficiency, and also his ability to score more.)

I realize that there is a TON of work that goes into these productions, but perhaps at some point, you can give us around a 30 minute mix of his all-around dominance, including college footage (with his shooting, shot-blocking, and running the floor.) And again, if you could add in those sensational commentaries, I suspect that it would be yet another mix that might go viral.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Just checked some of the video, great stuff yet again :applause:

[Demitri98]

Wow. :applause:

Great work CavsFTW, keep it up.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wow. :applause:

Great work CavsFTW, keep it up.
Thanks for checking it out :cheers:

[fpliii]

Thanks for checking it out :cheers:
OT - Were you able to find much color footage of Oscar from his Cinci days for your mix? Though I guess it's not a huge deal since he was perhaps still in his prime when he first went to Milwaukee (albeit the tail end, someone can correct me if I'm wrong), since from my understanding he didn't have a devastating injury.

[CavaliersFTW]

OT - Were you able to find much color footage of Oscar from his Cinci days for your mix? Though I guess it's not a huge deal since he was perhaps still in his prime when he first went to Milwaukee (albeit the tail end, someone can correct me if I'm wrong), since from my understanding he didn't have a devastating injury.
I don't think it matters whether or not it's early or later career footage of him when it comes to assessing his game, like Wilt he's going to use the same moves and think the same way regardless of how old he is, that said, I have plenty of both

[fpliii]

I don't think it matters whether or not it's early or later career footage of him when it comes to assessing his game, like Wilt he's going to use the same moves and think the same way regardless of how old he is, that said, I have plenty of both
:cheers:

[CavaliersFTW]

Adding all the High School, NCAA, and Globetrotter baskets to a 2nd version of this video that will encompasses all his known field goals on film.

[LAZERUSS]

Adding all the High School, NCAA, and Globetrotter baskets to a 2nd version of this video that will encompasses all his known field goals on film.

Excellent. His college footage was certainly more representative of his early NBA career. As I have said several times, those that actually saw Chamberlain in the early 60's, have claimed that he had a good outside game.


Carl Braun said, "He [Wilt] disorganizes you under the basket the same way [as Bill Russell, on defense]. With Wilt, of course, there's that offense on top of it, which is better than Russell's. He hit on all those jumpers."
"Yes, Wilt hit on those jumpers...Wilt did come into the league with a good touch from the outside, which made his early scoring that much more significant. He wasn't just dunking the ball then."

--Red Holzman. A View from the Bench. P.70

[fpliii]

Adding all the High School, NCAA, and Globetrotter baskets to a 2nd version of this video that will encompasses all his known field goals on film.
:cheers:

[LAZERUSS]

Just another suggestion.

Maybe a a "mixed bag" of solid Chamberlain highlights, but in sections. Say, a section with Chamberlain's blocks (or defense in general); then another section with his great passing; then a section with his dominating inside post game; and finally a section devoted to his all-around offensive skills, including that college footage.

And perhaps, a section involving his play against the other "greats", like Russell, Bellamy, Thurmond, Kareem, Reed, Lanier, and even Gilmore.

You could still make it around a 30 minute video, but reduce some of the more duplicated efforts.

[La Frescobaldi]

how about one of Iceman Gervin or Havlicek or Moses Malone or (good luck finding anything at all) Dan Issel or Mel Daniels?
How about one of another all-time great, Earl the Pearl? Or my all-time favorite player Walt Frazier? Or even of them together, the famed and ever-glorious Rolls Royce Backcourt?

Better still how about a montage of those Knicks, who rampaged over the league from '69 to '74, going to 4 straight Finals and winning two?

Willis "The Captain" Reed - Top 50, Hall of Fame
Walt "Clyde" Frazier - Top 50, Hall of Fame
Earl "the Pearl" Monroe - Top 50, Hall of Fame
Dave "Diamond Dave" Debusschere - Top 50, Hall of Fame
Jerry Lucas - Top 50, Hall of Fame
Dollar Bill Bradley - Hall of Fame
Red Holzman, coach - Top 10 Coach, Hall of Fame

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[CavaliersFTW]

Okay so after I added all the Overbrook, Kutchers, Kansas, and Globetrotter footage several new moves are added to Wilt's repertoire that did not show up in the NBA footage, and a LOT more relative volume of deep catches and transition baskets were added... if the final composition is any indication of how Wilt played during his scoring years in the NBA than holy shit. His shots and spins came from either shoulder on his jump shot and spin moves when he was younger given the addition of the footage of him, and on the right block he even shot from the baseline just as he did from the left block which the limited amount of NBA footage did not reveal. And he also did face up jump shots with free throw line extended range. The addition of this footage now matches the descriptions of what others who watched Wilt play had mentioned, they said my NBA mix lacked the versatility of his shooting ability from his younger NBA years - so he must have been using those types of shots in his first few NBA seasons.

Expect to see this up some time tomorrow. 45 minutes in length, long yes but then again so are the best Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neal mixes that I've watched on Youtube.

[fpliii]

Okay so after I added all the Overbrook, Kutchers, Kansas, and Globetrotter footage several new moves are added to Wilt's repertoire that did not show up in the NBA footage, and a LOT more relative volume of deep catches and transition baskets were added... if the final composition is any indication of how Wilt played during his scoring years in the NBA than holy shit. His shots and spins came from either shoulder on his jump shot and spin moves when he was younger given the addition of the footage of him, and on the right block he even shot from the baseline just as he did from the left block which the limited amount of NBA footage did not reveal. And he also did face up jump shots with free throw line extended range. The addition of this footage now matches the descriptions of what others who watched Wilt play had mentioned, they said my NBA mix lacked the versatility of his shooting ability from his younger NBA years - so he must have been using those types of shots in his first few NBA seasons.

Expect to see this up some time tomorrow. 45 minutes in length, long yes but then again so are the best Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neal mixes that I've watched on Youtube.
:applause:

[Dro]

Thread is grade A...

[jongib369]

Okay so after I added all the Overbrook, Kutchers, Kansas, and Globetrotter footage several new moves are added to Wilt's repertoire that did not show up in the NBA footage, and a LOT more relative volume of deep catches and transition baskets were added... if the final composition is any indication of how Wilt played during his scoring years in the NBA than holy shit. His shots and spins came from either shoulder on his jump shot and spin moves when he was younger given the addition of the footage of him, and on the right block he even shot from the baseline just as he did from the left block which the limited amount of NBA footage did not reveal. And he also did face up jump shots with free throw line extended range. The addition of this footage now matches the descriptions of what others who watched Wilt play had mentioned, they said my NBA mix lacked the versatility of his shooting ability from his younger NBA years - so he must have been using those types of shots in his first few NBA seasons.

Expect to see this up some time tomorrow. 45 minutes in length, long yes but then again so are the best Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neal mixes that I've watched on Youtube.
I know they're still in the making but how long do you expect the mix for Oscar and Russell to be?

[LAZERUSS]

Exceptional.

The "Wilt-bashers" should be required to watch all 45 minutes. This certainly captures his offensive arsenal, including his mid-range shooting. His fall-away bank shot (almost exclusively from the left block BTW) was perhaps the most dominant shot in NBA history (sorry Kareem.) And his early 15+ ft range is also on display in the middle of this footage.

Still, these 45 minutes only cover about 2% of his actual career, and the reality was,...there is no complete game footage of ANY of Chamberlain's 271 40+ point NBA games (as well as 122 of his 50+ point games, or his 32 60+ point game, or his six 70+ point games...nor his 100 point explosion.)

As extraordinary as this video is...and it is without question, the best ever on Wilt... the question remains, ...what spectacular events in Wilt's career are we missing (or, how much of them)?

I have said it before, but the background commentary (and even the music) is fantastic. I would contend that it contributes every bit as much as the actual footage does. Comments from his peers, coaches, writers, announcers...well, the overwhelming consensus from them... Wilt was simply the GOAT.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Iceman#44]

CAVS this is really amazing...It would be great to See 1 video with all the available wilt's blocks ...

[Helix]

Exceptional.

The "Wilt-bashers" should be required to watch all 45 minutes. This certainly captures his offensive arsenal, including his mid-range shooting. His fall-away bank shot (almost exclusively from the left block BTW) was perhaps the most dominant shot in NBA history (sorry Kareem.) And his early 15+ ft range is also on display in the middle of this footage.

Still, these 45 minutes only cover about 2% of his actual career, and the reality was,...there is no complete game footage of ANY of Chamberlain's 271 40+ point NBA games (as well as 122 of his 50+ point games, or his 32 60+ point game, or his six 70+ point games...nor his 100 point explosion.)

As extraordinary as this video is...and it is without question, the best ever on Wilt... the question remains, ...what spectacular events in Wilt's career are we missing (or, how much of them)?

I have said it before, but the background commentary (and even the music) is fantastic. I would contend that it contributes every bit as much as the actual footage does. Comments from his peers, coaches, writers, announcers...well, the overwhelming consensus from them... Wilt was simply the GOAT.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Couldn't agree more Laz..........as great as the footage is the music and commentary REALLY make it exceptional. I just want to say a huge THANK YOU to Cavs for all his outstanding efforts on this forum.

[Helix]

CAVS this is really amazing...It would be great to See 1 video with all the available wilt's blocks ...


I have a video of Wilt's blocks I downloaded off you tube a few years ago. It was removed for whatever reason shortly after I got it. It's about four and a half minutes long. I don't believe it has ALL Wilt's blocks.....I'm sure I've seen a few others in other videos. It shows Wilt blocking Kareem several times. Chances are Cavs has it, but if not I can send it to him.....or to you if you want it.

[CavaliersFTW]

I have a video of Wilt's blocks I downloaded off you tube a few years ago. It was removed for whatever reason shortly after I got it. It's about four and a half minutes long. I don't believe it has ALL Wilt's blocks.....I'm sure I've seen a few others in other videos. It shows Wilt blocking Kareem several times. Chances are Cavs has it, but if not I can send it to him.....or to you if you want it.
There's a lot more than 4 and a half minutes worth of Wilt blocking shots captured on film AFAIK, I was thinking about doing a defensive rebounding / defense / passing scouting project at some point so it's a possibility I will cover it in the future

[CavaliersFTW]

Forgot to post the latest video in here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBX9ikNzEk

[Helix]

There's a lot more than 4 and a half minutes worth of Wilt blocking shots captured on film AFAIK, I was thinking about doing a defensive rebounding / defense / passing scouting project at some point so it's a possibility I will cover it in the future


Yea, chances are there are a lot more than what that video shows. I haven't seen it for quite some time............I'll have to find it and take a look. I KNOW it had several blocks on Kareem, but I don't think it had the one against Chicago that West raved about, nor the one in the all star game.

The video you speak of possibly doing in the future would be great. Once again, thanks for all your efforts Cavs.

[Psileas]

Here's something that I think will shut lots of haters up once and for all, but will take also extra time and effort: Comparing similar situations in "old" and "newer" NBA videos by putting them close to each other and having them run at normal speed. I remember having watched an old Youtube video that compared Carl Lewis to Bob Hayes in a 4x100 race and it was shown that Hayes might actually have been faster - unfortunately, I can't find this video. I also remember myself arguing with an anti-60's "competitive" troll about certain players' athleticism and when I showed him that NCAA short video of Wilt blasting at full throttle for a fast break, he told me that he timed Wilt and found him as fast as Greg Oden in his rookie tryouts (I usually don't remember such details, but this was too good to miss :oldlol: ). I also showed him a video of West doing something similar and he also refused to admit he was fast. Such crap would not fly anymore if we had this kind of comparative videos that would show, e.g, West running along with Chris Paul, Russell running along with David Robinson, Wilt jumping along with Shaq, etc and holding their own.

[La Frescobaldi]

I've definitely got his 8 foot jumper from the right block, prior to footage of his championship sixer seasons (and all footage after) he seems to have taken that shot quite a bit as I have several examples of it, however all of them are fading away none are a straight up variant. The finger roll will be put into its appropriate foot work and block side categories, I will try to cluster all similar executed shots down to the fakes and footwork

yeah. Around 19 & 20 minutes or so has the move I was talking about. That was an unstoppable shot.
Dude really was the whole package and I'm glad you have made this movie because younger people just have never believed us when we say Chamberlain was the greatest to ever play.
They can still say "he wasn't all that" or he's a javale mcgee if they want, but they're denying the evidence in their face if they do.

Still to this day I believe Wilt Chamberlain was a giant. If you ever saw him on the beach - mingling with normal size people...... he picked up a guy on the beach one time in the '70s, a big guy too that was being rude to some girls, and just flung him across the sand into the ocean. Probably the single most powerful motion I ever saw.

[LAZERUSS]

Here's something that I think will shut lots of haters up once and for all, but will take also extra time and effort: Comparing similar situations in "old" and "newer" NBA videos by putting them close to each other and having them run at normal speed. I remember having watched an old Youtube video that compared Carl Lewis to Bob Hayes in a 4x100 race and it was shown that Hayes might actually have been faster - unfortunately, I can't find this video. I also remember myself arguing with an anti-60's "competitive" troll about certain players' athleticism and when I showed him that NCAA short video of Wilt blasting at full throttle for a fast break, he told me that he timed Wilt and found him as fast as Greg Oden in his rookie tryouts (I usually don't remember such details, but this was too good to miss :oldlol: ). I also showed him a video of West doing something similar and he also refused to admit he was fast. Such crap would not fly anymore if we had this kind of comparative videos that would show, e.g, West running along with Chris Paul, Russell running along with David Robinson, Wilt jumping along with Shaq, etc and holding their own.

There have been numerous articles claiming that Hayes might have been the fastest ever (most all of them before Usain Bolt...who might be holding records for years himself)...

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/wiley/020920.html


I've know other fast football players. We all have. Clifford Branch. Deion. Bo. Rocket. All of them around 4.2; if they catch a flyer at the start, even faster. Rock once ran a 4.18 40. So did Deion. So did Bo. It's barely human to run that fast -- that's right on the edge of human consciousness. That's a blur. That's the Right Stuff.


Bob Hayes
Hayes was once clocked at 5.28 in the 60-yard dash.
We don't have any record of 40 times for Bob Hayes. But it's said he once ran a 60-yard dash, on a cinder track, in 5.28 seconds. You heard. Sure, it was hand-timed. Sure, there's no record. But this much is certain. Bob Hayes won the 1964 Olympic gold medal in the 100 meters in Tokyo in 1964 in 10.05; and he won by four full meters. Nobody wins an Olympic 100-meter final by that margin unless they are Jesse Owens in Berlin, 1936. Bullet Bob wasn't even pressed. He downshifted in the last 10 meters of that race. Pulled up. Eased off. Saved a little. If pressed, he could've gone faster. Bullet Bob was as fast as he had to be.

The Bullet Man was behind five relay teams when he got the baton on the anchor leg of the 4 x 100-meter relay final in Tokyo. He made up nine meters on the field. Nine meters! He ran his leg in 8.6. That's not running. That's teleportation. That's Star Trek.

When he passed the finish line, he was two meters clear of the next finisher. He tossed the relay baton in the air. That was symbolic. He'd done what he had to do. Now he'd run with something else.

Yet, he was no converted trackman. Jimmy Hines, who won the 1968 Olympic gold medal at Mexico City, tried to be a wideout -- for about 10 minutes. Skeets Nehemiah actually got a Super Bowl ring with the Niners. Due to the Moscow boycott in '80, he never won Olympic gold. Bullet Bob? Ran track like a football player. That's because he was a football player. Amazingly, he was a football player first. You could tell when he ran. He wasn't extended, muscles taut but elongated loose -- he didn't have the beautiful form of a Carl Lewis, 20 years later. But over 100 meters he was just as fast as Carl Lewis. No doubt. But Hayes roiled when he ran, like an angry sea -- pigeon-toed, with massive thighs and a well-built upper body, he pulled himself through still air. Wind gauges didn't bother him at all. He was ahead of his time physically, too.


http://www.drmichaeljoyner.com/usain-bolt-vs-bob-hayes/


Modern tracks are probably 2-3% faster than the dirt and cinder tracks Hayes ran on. It is also tempting to think about what might have happened if Hayes had focused on track full time instead of playing football. He never ran a race after his early 20s


I’m a former track and field athlete, in the 70s. I still regard Hayes as the greatest sprinter of all time. What he did in Tokyo on a (badly cut-up) cinder track in poor weather conditions was absolutely staggering. Besides, he appeared and disappeared in his early twenties and never had the chance to hone out his sprinting technique. In terms of pure raw speed I don’t think anyone can compare. In those days, too, top athletes only had 4 or 5 competitions a year. In this day and age, on the international circuit, they have up to some 20 available. And it is in competition, and top competition at that, week in, week out, that you improve your marks. I can only imagine, or dream, Hayes transported to the modern era with the new training methods, physical recovery, food supplements, equipment, number of competitions and, most of all, the supersonic synthetic tracks on which athletes run nowadays. When Hayes retired he was still very much an uncut diamond, a work still very much in progress. We never saw his best which is more than can be said of the likes of Bolton


Exactly Miguel,Bob Hayes was undefeated in 49 consecutive sprints 60yds.100yds.100meters,he ran as fast as needbe to win.NO sprinter today,has even come close to 49 wins in a row.When someone does they could be considered equal with the great Bob Hayes.Hayes Tokyo Olympic 4by100 meter relay performance is considered by most experts as the fastest 100 meters of all time,clocked at 8.5-8.6 seconds,for his anchor leg on a dirt track,with inferior shoes.Some believe he may have run close to 30mph.on that relay leg,comeing back from 4meters at the start&winning by 3meters at the finish,against the fastest men in the world at that time.I rest my case,fastest to ever live.SA.


http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/06/_when_jamaicas_usain_bolt.html


When Jamaica's Usain Bolt made a prophecy of his name and set the world record of 9.72 seconds in the 100-meter dash recently, it seemed to dwarf the sprinters of the past.

But is the fastest also the greatest of all time?

Today's sprinters benefit from wind-resistant uniforms that let them carve a hole in the air. They gulp legal nutritional supplements, run on rubberized tracks with great shock absorption and energy return, wear shoes as light as the tape their chests break, study videotape of their starts as avidly as NFL quarterbacks peruse defenses, and lift a foundry of iron to sustain their speed better.

The "silent" starting gun sends an electronic impulse, registering as a bang, to loudspeakers behind each lane. Back in the day, sprinters in the outside lane lost up to .03 seconds as the sound of a real pistol crack traveled to them





Here is one from 2008...

http://speedendurance.com/2008/10/10/asafa-powell-or-bob-hayes-worlds-fastest-100-meters/

[QUOTE]POP QUIZ: Who has the World Record for the 4x100m fastest 100 meter relay split ?

This is not an official event, as timing consistency varies, but we all love stats, right?

Ever since I started watching the Olympics in 1972, historians always referred to “Bullet” Bob Hayes 8.5 second 4

[LAZERUSS]

Here's something that I think will shut lots of haters up once and for all, but will take also extra time and effort: Comparing similar situations in "old" and "newer" NBA videos by putting them close to each other and having them run at normal speed. I remember having watched an old Youtube video that compared Carl Lewis to Bob Hayes in a 4x100 race and it was shown that Hayes might actually have been faster - unfortunately, I can't find this video. I also remember myself arguing with an anti-60's "competitive" troll about certain players' athleticism and when I showed him that NCAA short video of Wilt blasting at full throttle for a fast break, he told me that he timed Wilt and found him as fast as Greg Oden in his rookie tryouts (I usually don't remember such details, but this was too good to miss :oldlol: ). I also showed him a video of West doing something similar and he also refused to admit he was fast. Such crap would not fly anymore if we had this kind of comparative videos that would show, e.g, West running along with Chris Paul, Russell running along with David Robinson, Wilt jumping along with Shaq, etc and holding their own.

I have posted this before, but there are those that believe that Nolan Ryan was/is the hardest thrower of all-time.

http://www.efastball.com/baseball/stats/fastest-pitch-speed-in-major-leagues/

Although if you google the name Steve Dalkowski, who was pitching in the minors in the late 50's, you will get estimates as high as 110 MPH.


Most powerful homerun hitter of all-time? Not even close. A 5-11 190 lb. Mickey Mantle...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mantle


Mantle hit some of the longest home runs in Major League history. On September 10, 1960, he hit a ball left-handed that cleared the right-field roof at Tiger Stadium in Detroit and, based on where it was found, was estimated years later by historian Mark Gallagher to have traveled 643 feet (196 m). Another Mantle homer, hit right-handed off Chuck Stobbs at Griffith Stadium in Washington, D.C. on April 17, 1953, was measured by Yankees traveling secretary Red Patterson (hence the term "tape-measure home run") to have traveled 565 feet (172 m). Deducting for bounces,[4] there is no doubt that both landed well over 500 feet (152 m) from home plate. Mantle twice hit balls off the third-deck facade at Yankee Stadium, nearly becoming the only player to hit a fair ball out of the stadium during a game. On May 22, 1963, against Kansas City's Bill Fischer, Mantle hit a ball that fellow players and fans claimed was still rising when it hit the 110-foot (34 m) high facade, then caromed back onto the playing field. It was later estimated by some that the ball could have traveled 504 feet (154 m) [27] had it not been blocked by the ornate and distinctive facade. On August 12, 1964, he hit one whose distance was undoubted: a center field drive that cleared the 22-foot (6.7 m) batter's eye screen, some 75' beyond the 461-foot (141 m) marker at the Stadium.

Although he was a feared power hitter from either side of the plate and hit more home runs batting left-handed than right, Mantle considered himself a better right-handed hitter.[28] In roughly 25% of his total at-bats he hit .330 right-handed to .281 left.[29] His 372 to 164 home run disparity was due to Mantle having batted left-handed much more often, as the large majority of pitchers are right-handed. In spite of short foul pole dimension of 296 feet (90 m) to left and 302 feet (92 m) to right in original Yankee Stadium, Mantle gained no advantage there as his stroke both left and right-handed drove balls there to power alleys of 344' to 407' and 402' to 457' feet (139 m) from the plate. Overall, he hit slightly more home runs away (270) than home (266).[



And more on Mantle...

http://www.themick.com/10homers.html


Incidently, I find it fascinating that the record for the Long Jump is 29' 4", and was set in 1992. And 24 years before that, the previous record was set at 29' 2". How come, with all the advancements in modern technology and medicine, that this record has stood for so long?

[CavaliersFTW]

Not 3 years back people used to assert Wilt was a 'less skilled/athletic dikembe mutumbo' on here :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Not 3 years back people used to assert Wilt was a 'less skilled/athletic dikembe mutumbo' on here :oldlol:


They have been almost completely silenced and eradicated in the last couple of years. Only the idiots remain, and even they can no longer present any valid "anti-Wilt" arguments.

They used to scoff at the claims of Wilt's legendary leaping ability. They refused to accept the fact that he won high-jump championships (and doing so in a part-time fashion I might add.) And they would rip the claims that Wilt could dunk from the FT line, even though the internet was plastered with such accounts. Then, suddenly a video interview with none other Tex Winter surfaced, and in which he himself witnessed Chamberlain accomplishing that feat. In fact, he was so stunned by what he saw, he headed an NCAA committee that would go on to ban such "freakish activity."

And then a video in which the well-respected Sonny Hill also surfaced, and in which he claimed to have witnessed Chamberlain touching the top of the backboard. I added an eye-witness account from longtime Sixer trainer, Al Domenico, who echoed Sonny Hill.

We also have some documentation of Wilt's college coach rolling out a 12 foot basket, and an article from the Kansas college newspaper claiming that Wilt was dunking on it.

Of course, your videos of a college Chamberlain, with no time to react, and going straight up, and blocking a shot, in which clearly his fingertips are within a couple of inches of the top of the backboard, was the "straw that broke the camel's back."

Of course the internet has an endless supply of Chamberlain's almost unfathomable strength. The "bashers" always labeled them as purely just fables that had grown in time. Then in the last year, or so, we now have a video interview with none other than Arnold Schwartzenegger, who was just shocked by the amount of weight that Chamberlain was throwing up in the gym. Again, I added a first-hand account, in a taped interview by MSNBC moderators, in which they claimed they witnessed a Wilt, in his late 50's, benching 465 lbs (and in which Chamberlain stated that he probably could have done more.)

And now this 45 minute video, and in which there is a ton of footage of Wilt hitting turn-around bank shots, and even 15+ foot jump shots, as well as hook shots, and reverse banked lay-ins. Clearly, Chamberlain was do much of his damage throughout his career from well outside of the 3ft area under the hoop. He was pulling Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan shots, long before those two were.

And with the information available from Fpliii and nbastats.net, we now KNOW that Wilt dominated the NBA far more than anyone else who has ever played the game.

The "Custerites" have long since scattered for the hills...

[Asukal]

Such dominance still only 2 doe.... :rolleyes:

5 years from now, still only 2 doe... :rolleyes:

10 years from now, still only 2 doe... :rolleyes:

...

50 years from now, still only 2 doe... :rolleyes:

You can twist whatever bs quote you can come up with but in the end still only 2. TWO. TWO. TWO. TWO. TWO... :roll:

[CavaliersFTW]

Such dominance still only 2 doe.... :rolleyes:

5 years from now, still only 2 doe... :rolleyes:

10 years from now, still only 2 doe... :rolleyes:

...

50 years from now, still only 2 doe... :rolleyes:

You can twist whatever bs quote you can come up with but in the end still only 2. TWO. TWO. TWO. TWO. TWO... :roll:
96

[clutchinho]

Came in to pay my respects to wilt chamberlain , NBA Demi god :bowdown:

The amount of research you guys do and share is admirable.

[CavaliersFTW]

Came in to pay my respects to wilt chamberlain , NBA Demi god :bowdown:

The amount of research you guys do and share is admirable.
Thanks for stopping by :cheers:

[CavaliersFTW]

We love to talk about dominant stretches of players, how about this one:

Wilt Chamberlain from 2/8/67 - 2/28/67 (10 games)

32.0 ppg on 74.7FG%,
26.6 rebounds per game
9.3 assists per game
11.6 blocks per game

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: has there ever been a more dominant stretch on both ends of the floor ever!? That is flat out insane!

[jlip]

This may be the single most important basketball related video generated in years. I'm not exaggerating either.

[CavaliersFTW]

This may be the single most important basketball related video generated in years. I'm not exaggerating either.
Maybe, we'll see how well it circulates after the playoffs though, it might not ever get a significant amount of views being that it is 45 minutes in length and highlights a player and period of time that ESPN has made clear it wants us fans to dismiss.

[fpliii]

This may be the single most important basketball related video generated in years. I'm not exaggerating either.
I agree 100% with this. Not just as a student of the basketball history or of CavsFTW's work (of which I certainly am of both), but just as a fan of the sport. This is remarkable stuff.

Maybe, we'll see how well it circulates after the playoffs though, it might not ever get a significant amount of views being that it is 45 minutes in length and highlights a player and period of time that ESPN has made clear it wants us fans to dismiss.
True, but I think the Kareem/Wilt video (and the Russell jumping clip) were more along the lines of what ESPN was looking for here. This type of video is intended for a different audience as far as I can tell.

[Marchesk]

Such dominance still only 2 doe.... :rolleyes:

5 years from now, still only 2 doe... :rolleyes:

10 years from now, still only 2 doe... :rolleyes:

...

50 years from now, still only 2 doe... :rolleyes:

Two of the best teams ever doe. Will still be remembered 50 years from now doe.

[Marchesk]

How many MPG?

Who cares? he was shooting almost 75% while putting up a near tipple double double.

[Helix]

We love to talk about dominant stretches of players, how about this one:

Wilt Chamberlain from 2/8/67 - 2/28/67 (10 games)

32.0 ppg on 74.7FG%,
26.6 rebounds per game
9.3 assists per game
11.6 blocks per game

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: has there ever been a more dominant stretch on both ends of the floor ever!? That is flat out insane!


That's actually less than one assist away from AVERAGING a quad double over that ten game stretch. Do you have the numbers for all ten of those games? If so, it would be interesting to see how many quad double games he might have had over that stretch.

[dankok8]

^ Block numbers are all estimates for those games. There is no source to confirm them as far as I know. Still... :bowdown:

[Psileas]

True, but I think the Kareem/Wilt video (and the Russell jumping clip) were more along the lines of what ESPN was looking for here. This type of video is intended for a different audience as far as I can tell.

This is true. The "scouting report" on Wilt is a much more complete version of the older 3-5 minutes clips typically called "highlight films", which, however, realistically, weren't highlight films. Neither is it.
A 10 minute clip with, say, 4 minutes of Wilt's best baskets+4 minutes of best defensive plays+2 minutes of his best passes would form a real "highlight reel" and probably have a lot more views.

[CavaliersFTW]

This is true. The "scouting report" on Wilt is a much more complete version of the older 3-5 minutes clips typically called "highlight films", which, however, realistically, weren't highlight films. Neither is it.
A 10 minute clip with, say, 4 minutes of Wilt's best baskets+4 minutes of best defensive plays+2 minutes of his best passes would form a real "highlight reel" and probably have a lot more views.
Also highlights tend to be fixated on the finish these days, rather than the actual move that got the player free and enabled them to finish... the move is the hard work as far as the game of basketball goes, not the finish. But casual fans tend to only understand the finish I think that's what draws viewers, fan highlight reels typically zero in on the moment that a player cocked their arm back on a slam, contorted their body in dramatic fashion during flight, or put extraordinary spin on the ball or just displayed a good shooting stroke. Most highlight films I see I can't even see what the player did to get open, it's been cut out inadvertantly by the mixmaker. All that floor game is probably just looked at as boring filler as far as most casual fans are concerened I think, and I'm guessing it's because they don't see/understand what's going on.

[Gotterdammerung]

Excellent work, lads :cheers:

[CavaliersFTW]

bump

[jongib369]

http://cbsphilly.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/wilt-chamberlain-overbrook-high-school-16x9.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

For my next revision of this project, should I change up the music from epic to some beats more like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB7-T-Bpiko

:confusedshrug:

[CavaliersFTW]

Next revision is starting to come together, going to be called something different than scouting tool though, as instead of a 5 or 6 minute preface of his "size and tools" I will now preface with a 20 minute highlight package of his defense, passing, size, and insane physical tools he possessed.

Check out some of the footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irB_YnNK7ns

The above clips would follow my as yet unfinished section that adds context to his size (clips of him standing along side shaq, etc, testimony of his playing weights, wingspan etc).

Also as some of you know I've found about 20 more field goals of his since that last scouting video which will all be included in their appropriate categories. This will likely end up the first legitimate hour long highlight video of Wilt and of any player in general from that far back in time :rockon:

[fpliii]

Next revision is starting to come together, going to be called something different than scouting tool though, as instead of a 5 or 6 minute preface of his "size and tools" I will now preface with a 20 minute highlight package of his defense, passing, size, and insane physical tools he possessed.

Check out some of the footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irB_YnNK7ns

The above clips would follow my as yet unfinished section that adds context to his size (clips of him standing along side shaq, etc, testimony of his playing weights, wingspan etc).

Also as some of you know I've found about 20 more field goals of his since that last scouting video which will all be included in their appropriate categories. This will likely end up the first legitimate hour long highlight video of Wilt and of any player in general from that far back in time :rockon:
:applause:

Always looking forward to your mixes.

[CavaliersFTW]

:applause:

Always looking forward to your mixes.
I removed that link but check Youtube in about 6 to 8 hours.

I finished it, it's rendering as we speak I can't get it up quick enough. Greatest mix I've ever made.

[fpliii]

I removed that link but check Youtube in about 6 to 8 hours.

I finished it, it's rendering as we speak I can't get it up quick enough. Greatest mix I've ever made.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: