Northwestern Players move to "unionize"

[niko]

http://www.universityherald.com/articles/7124/20140128/northwestern-football-players-begin-movement-to-unionize-ncaa-student-athletes.htm

They may not be paid for playing on the field, but a group of student-athletes want representation from a labor union.

ESPN's "Outside the Lines" reported that, for the first time in the history of college sports, student-athletes are making moves to unionize and be recognized as "employees." On behalf of the Northwestern University football team, National College Players Association (NCPA) president Ramogi Huma filed a petition at the National Labor Relations Board's (NLRB) regional office in Chicago.

"This is about finally giving college athletes a seat at the table," Huma, a former UCLA linebacker and NCPA founder, told OTL. "Athletes deserve an equal voice when it comes to their physical, academic and financial protections."

The NLRB is a federal body that recognizes groups that may seek collective bargaining rights. Huma formed the NCPA in 2001 as an advocacy group for he and his fellow college athletes.

He told OTL Northwestern quarterback Kain Colter first approached him with the idea last spring. Colter wanted a union for college athletes so they could try and improve conditions under which they play sports and help earn money for their school and for the NCAA.

"The action we're taking isn't because of any mistreatment by Northwestern," Colter said. "We love Northwestern. The school is just playing by the rules of their governing body, the NCAA. We're interested in trying to help all players - at USC, Stanford, Oklahoma State, everywhere. It's about protecting them and future generations to come."

At the national NCAA convention, president Mark Emmert and the leaders of the Division I power conferences (SEC, Big Ten, ACC, Pac-12 and Big 12) are reportedly discussing ways to give more legislative power to athletic directors and conference heads. The "legislative autonomy" would allow conference and athletic department leaders to make decisions like provide certain benefits and stipends for players. However, some student-athletes have said they feel unrepresented in those discussions.

"Right now the NCAA is like a dictatorship," Colter told OTL. "No one represents us in negotiations. The only way things are going to change is if players have a union."

The United Steelworker's union has provided technical support for the NCAP's movement to unionize college sports. The group's political director and a liaison to the NCAP, Tim Waters, said the NCAA's "greed" brought this movement upon themselves.

"The NCAA is a train wreck waiting to happen," Waters told OTL. "What brought them to this moment is they couldn't control their greed. They put all this money in the system."

The NCAA is also in the midst of a lawsuit with former UCLA basketball player Ed O'Bannon, who is suing for compensation after he saw his name, image and likeness being used in a video game without his consent.

The outcome, should O'Bannon win, would do even more to change the landscape of college sports.

[Akrazotile]

As I have always said - I have no problem with unions personally. People have a right to band together and negotiate with their employer.

The people I loathe are the kumbaya 20-somethings who don't even BELONG to a union, who think it is their business to support unions and pro-union politicians simply because they want recognition for supporting "david" against goliath.

Same people I talked about in the global warming thread. People who always rush in to 'save the day' when they have no idea what they're doing. FOOLS who rush in. Want to change everything and be seen as the big compassionate robin hood instead of just minding their own damn business and recognizing what policies it is important to take a stand on and what are not.

Let negotiations that have NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU take their course. Don't 'try to be cool' by saying "yeah man, stupid ncaa needs to start paying these guys! its like, you gotta like, socialize it man, cause seriously man, the corporations are like stupid and stuff, its so stupid man. stupid corporations."

:facepalm

[DukeDelonte13]

f*cking stupid.

most college sports programs cost schools money, it's a delusion that these kids are making schools money. Only a handful of programs in the country make money for schools.

Secondly these entitled little assholes are getting a free very expensive college education that anybody would kill for, and the opportunity to showcase their talents to professional organizations with unions for their players.

[Akrazotile]

f*cking stupid.

most college sports programs cost schools money, it's a delusion that these kids are making schools money. Only a handful of programs in the country make money for schools.

Secondly these entitled little assholes are getting a free very expensive college education that anybody would kill for, and the opportunity to showcase their talents to professional organizations with unions for their players.


If you started doing something for free, but then all the sudden the person you did it for began to make millions off it, would you not want a piece? What if he said, "here, i'll give all your kids free college tuition." Even as he's making hundreds of millions off your work, that's all he's offering.

Would you think "Gee, I'm doing the work, I'd like to have a say in what kind of cut I get" or would you say "Ok, tuition paid, I'm good."

[DukeDelonte13]

If you started doing something for free, but then all the sudden the person you did it for began to make millions off it, would you not want a piece? What if he said, "here, i'll give all your kids free college tuition." Even as he's making hundreds of millions off your work, that's all he's offering.

Would you think "Gee, I'm doing the work, I'd like to have a say in what kind of cut I get" or would you say "Ok, tuition paid, I'm good."


but the fact is most schools have to subsidize the cost of these sports programs. Most schools aren't making millions, they are paying big bucks. for every Ohio State football program, there is a Kent State, Akron U, Bowling Green, U.D., Toledo, etc. that has to spend money to keep their programs alive. How is it fair to the non-athletes that they are paying all this tuition money to go to college and instead of the college investing in better educational components they using it to keep sports programs afloat?

And on top of that.. Colleges should be PAYING these kids too? That's a sad state of affairs IMO.

[Jailblazers7]

f*cking stupid.

most college sports programs cost schools money, it's a delusion that these kids are making schools money. Only a handful of programs in the country make money for schools.

Secondly these entitled little assholes are getting a free very expensive college education that anybody would kill for, and the opportunity to showcase their talents to professional organizations with unions for their players.

Speaking more for basketball than football here, but that is actually a limitation for some kids. NBA owners helped institute the 1-and-done rule because they were wasting money and 1st rounders on HS players who didn't develop. Now a kid who could have got guaranteed, 1st round, life changing money might end up a 2nd round pick or not even drafted. Instead, they are forced to go to college (where they don't make any money). Acting as if a scholarship is just compensation for someone is defending because it is ingrained in everyone's head that the end goal for all HSers is a college degree.

I don't necessarily think that colleges need to pay athletes but they should be allowed to become professionals at any point in time (or accept endorsements during their college days).

[DukeDelonte13]

Speaking more for basketball than football here, but that is actually a limitation for some kids. NBA owners helped institute the 1-and-done rule because they were wasting money and 1st rounders on HS players who didn't develop. Now a kid who could have got guaranteed, 1st round, life changing money might end up a 2nd round pick or not even drafted. Instead, they are forced to go to college (where they don't make any money). Acting as if a scholarship is just compensation for someone is defending because it is ingrained in everyone's head that the end goal for all HSers is a college degree.


Nobody is forced to go to college. They can play pro in europe or go to the D-league, make some money, prove they can play, and get paid.

[Jailblazers7]

Nobody is forced to go to college. They can play pro in europe or go to the D-league, make some money, prove they can play, and get paid.

So the options are either 1) leave the country or 2) make pennies on the dollar in the NBDL.

From Marc Stein on NBDL salaries:


Salaries remain flat: $25,500, $19,000 and $13,000 for the league's three player classifications. Which means D-League players are virtually playing for free -- and a modest per diem on the road of $40 compared to $120 in the NBA -- although they do receive housing and insurance benefits. It was also brought to my attention this week that the D-League quietly does have a per-team salary cap of $178,000 ... with a dollar-for-dollar luxury tax, just like in the NBA, for teams that go over that amount.

Top recruits are prob getting paid more than that under the table by boosters at some unis.

[DukeDelonte13]

So the options are either 1) leave the country or 2) make pennies on the dollar in the NBDL.

From Marc Stein on NBDL salaries:



Top recruits are prob getting paid more than that under the table by boosters at some unis.


Being 18 years old and getting paid to play a game is a blessing. So they have to wait until they are 19 to start making millions? Boohoo. Cry me a river. :oldlol: Those poor kids!!!!

[Jailblazers7]

Being 18 years old and getting paid to play a game is a blessing. So they have to wait until they are 19 to start making millions? Boohoo. Cry me a river. :oldlol: Those poor kids!!!!

My point is that some kids fall out of favor with scouts by the time they turn 19 and become eligible. Why should those kids have to take that risk?

The one-and-done rule is just a way to transfer risk from NBA owners to HS graduates/college freshman.

[Akrazotile]

but the fact is most schools have to subsidize the cost of these sports programs. Most schools aren't making millions, they are paying big bucks. for every Ohio State football program, there is a Kent State, Akron U, Bowling Green, U.D., Toledo, etc. that has to spend money to keep their programs alive. How is it fair to the non-athletes that they are paying all this tuition money to go to college and instead of the college investing in better educational components they using it to keep sports programs afloat?



I completely agree with this part. The whole situation is dicey because many programs don't actually earn any money. Does that mean those who play for the ones that do shouldn't get paid? I don't know.

I mean, not every team in basketball, football, baseball etc. makes a profit. Does that mean every player on every team should get the same static wage? Alabama may generate a million dollars when they play a game, but they still need teams to play AGAINST. So if you're Alcorn St., and Alabama makes a million dollars every time they play you... you don't want a piece? You wouldn't use any possible leverage to see if you can gain from it? Most people would.

I'm just saying, there is a clearly a business element to professional college sports because they generate massive revenues. I don't blame any students for investigating the potential to have more of a stake in it. I mean really, what business is it of anyone elses? It's been proven that viewers at home don't actually care about things like steroids, payment scandals, legal issues etc. People just want a jersey to scream for on Saturday. Why not just let the two sides work it out on their own??

[Akrazotile]

Being 18 years old and getting paid to play a game is a blessing. So they have to wait until they are 19 to start making millions? Boohoo. Cry me a river. :oldlol: Those poor kids!!!!


My question is, why does it actually matter to you?

Why do you care whether the administrators of college football get all the money or they share it with the players?

You seem to be very passionate about taking a specific side. I don't understand why it matters to you.

[kentatm]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Libro_Los_Viejos_Abuelos_Foto_68.png

[DeuceWallaces]

but the fact is most schools have to subsidize the cost of these sports programs. Most schools aren't making millions, they are paying big bucks. for every Ohio State football program, there is a Kent State, Akron U, Bowling Green, U.D., Toledo, etc. that has to spend money to keep their programs alive. How is it fair to the non-athletes that they are paying all this tuition money to go to college and instead of the college investing in better educational components they using it to keep sports programs afloat?

And on top of that.. Colleges should be PAYING these kids too? That's a sad state of affairs IMO.

It's pretty simple. The programs that aren't profitable won't be paying out. Same thing happens in graduate education. It's not very hard to sort out. Not everyone is equal.

[niko]

Are most schools really losing money on there athletic programs? I have a hard time believing they would keep them if that were the case
It's a loss leader, people want to see sports. The alumni donate, it attracts new students, etc. But except for big time football, very little of these sports actually make money at all.

[Akrazotile]

It's pretty simple. The programs that aren't profitable won't be paying out. Same thing happens in graduate education. It's not very hard to sort out. Not everyone is equal.

This is how it should be, although I'm skeptical it can be made that simple in athletics.

The public pays far more attention to college athletics than college graduate programs. I think there will be a significant backlash if USC players are getting paid to play against Ball State players who are not. People will cry discrimination, inequality, unfairness, no integrity, bullying, corporatism, etc. Just like you always do. Hell, I'm sure there will be some people who even find a way to throw 'racism' into the whole thing. Just as an excuse to sound off. Just like you always do.

[DukeDelonte13]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2013/05/07/ncaa-finances-subsidies/2142443/

[QUOTE]At a time of tight budgets throughout higher education, even the nation's few financially self-sufficient major-college athletics departments are continuing to receive subsidies in the form of student fees, school or state support, a USA TODAY Sports analysis finds.

[B]Just 23 of 228 athletics departments at NCAA Division I public schools generated enough money on their own to cover their expenses in 2012. Of that group, 16 also received some type of subsidy

[Jailblazers7]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2013/05/07/ncaa-finances-subsidies/2142443/



This is why student athletes should not be paid. It's a huge f*ck you to all the other students that are going into debt to get degrees at those universities.

So we punish the student athletes at those unis so that normal students don't feel bad? There are some convincing arguments against paying student athletes but that definitely isn't one of them.

[ZenMaster]

My question is, why does it actually matter to you?

Why do you care whether the administrators of college football get all the money or they share it with the players?

You seem to be very passionate about taking a specific side. I don't understand why it matters to you.

That's some dysfunctional debating right there.. The "what does it matter to you?" argument :facepalm

[Real Men Wear Green]

The NCAA doesn't even need to pay athletes. Don't give them another dime. Just let them take endorsement deals and profit off of their own likenesses. That's what's really messed up about the way the NCAA operates.

[Akrazotile]

That's some dysfunctional debating right there.. The "what does it matter to you?" argument :facepalm


For such a flawed argument, you sure had a hard time actually rebuffing it with anything of substance.

[Bush4Ever]

Unions are for the "working man" and "the poor", so I support their efforts.

Does everyone see how noble and righteous I am?

You can thank me for my virtue in this thread, if you want.

[Bush4Ever]

The NCAA doesn't even need to pay athletes. Don't give them another dime. Just let them take endorsement deals and profit off of their own likenesses. That's what's really messed up about the way the NCAA operates.

They should not pay scholarships, and instead should be forced to pay market rate for the players.

Of course, nothing in college sports will ever approach a free market for a variety of reasons.

So we are left with the muddled, incoherent mess that we have today.

[flipogb]

if you want to make money, then go to Europe. not enough players are doing it, if they did then it might just force college ball to change its rules

[Real Men Wear Green]

if you want to make money, then go to Europe. not enough players are doing it, if they did then it might just force college ball to change its rules
That's hard enough for basketball players. Football? I think that's expecting way too much, aside from London do they care about our football at all in Europe? NFL Europe didn't last, do they have American-style football leagues that send players to the NFL? I can't think of anyone that played pro ball in Sweden or wherever. The Northwestern players are probably taking the right approach to making changes, we're talking about a bunch of college kids after all. There is no feasible path to the NFL outside of the NCAA at this point. Maybe a teenager could join the CFL or Arena league, not sure what their rules are but at this point it's asking too much to expect teenagers to take unconventional routes. Not to mention the overwhelming majority of the NW players aren't pro prospects. Most of their careers end with their eligibility.

[Sarcastic]

if you want to make money, then go to Europe. not enough players are doing it, if they did then it might just force college ball to change its rules


That's very un-American to say that people should have to go outside the country to earn a living.

Who at 18 really wants to go to a foreign country, where they may not even speak your language, and your safety may be completely compromised.

[Akrazotile]

That's very un-American to say that people should have to go outside the country to earn a living.




It's a very American thing to say everyone has to make hard decisions in life and they should be free to make them and responsible for the consequences.

Altho these days its become the "faggy American" thing to say "NO NO NO no responsibility and consequences. GOVERNMENT, MAKE EVERYTHING OK!"


Weren't you the guy who said anyone who didn't support the players in the NBA lockout was racist?

Didn't you also say anyone who didn't vote for Obama was racist?


It's become a running conservative gag that there are people who actually said that stuff, but the funny thing is there really were, and I remember you were one of them.

You have no place in an intellectual discussion.

[ace23]

It's pretty simple. The programs that aren't profitable won't be paying out. Same thing happens in graduate education. It's not very hard to sort out. Not everyone is equal.
Title IX

[DeuceWallaces]

Title IX won't impact whatever happens next.

[gts]

My point is that some kids fall out of favor with scouts by the time they turn 19 and become eligible. Why should those kids have to take that risk?

The one-and-done rule is just a way to transfer risk from NBA owners to HS graduates/college freshman.

You say that like it's a bad thing.. NBA is the cream of the crop or at least it's supposed to be.. if one year in college , europe or the NBDL helps weed them out before they reach the big show I'm all for it

[Sarcastic]

You say that like it's a bad thing.. NBA is the cream of the crop or at least it's supposed to be.. if one year in college , europe or the NBDL helps weed them out before they reach the big show I'm all for it

Even if it's illegal?

[gts]

Even if it's illegal?
It's not illegal, it's been challenged in court and shot down.. it's part of the CBA between the union and the league and thus deemed legal

The CBA allows all sorts of labor laws that might be considered illegal to happen because both sides agree it's the best way to achieve their common goals

[Sarcastic]

It's not illegal, it's been challenged in court and shot down.. it's part of the CBA between the union and the league and thus deemed legal

Was Nerlens Noel part of that CBA? He was not allowed to apply to the NBA, went to college, and blew out his knee.

Students unionizing is the first step towards future Nerlens Noels having a voice in decisions that impact them but not being allowed in the negotiations.

[Kblaze8855]

We really acting like colleges are just giving away money for nothing if their football/basketball programs dont cover the cost of all other sports?

Do you think these places are helmed by idiots? If it didnt serve a purpose it wouldnt be going on for 100 years.

A good sports team....one the community really gets behind...is the best money maker many schools can get. Not to mention the free marketing.

I live 20 minutes from Clemson. If you arent near a college town like that I suspect its hard to understand the depth of some peoples allegiances.

I know people with Clemson colored keys, who listen to clemson sports based radio, pay for deeded parking spaces near clemson to tailgate, and get in fist fights with South Carolina fans.

If you dont schedule clemson/SC fans off for a big game...they just call out of work. Ive been to games with 80 thousand people there, 20 thousand more outside, and every bar packed for miles around. The parking, food, and merchandising for 80 thousand people?

Clemson sticks its logo on everything. The licensing alone....it has to be crazy. I dont want to imagine what the food venders pay them every home game.

I dont care what accounting tricks places play to try to appear to be struggling. It happens all the time in and outside the sports world.

Clemson football is a money maker. And it generates so much loyalty and discussion that is pushes people to attend clemson and support it even if they cant.

People around here are fans before they hit the age of reason. 3 year olds yelling touchdown in clemson outfits who grow up to love clemson.

They know what they are doing.

And no everyone isnt Clemson or any of the big schools...the really big ones like Texas...whatever. But they arent fielding these teams out of the goodness of their hearts.

A good athlete is an advertisement on two legs. Be you Texas or Boonville Tech. Those teams exist for a reason.

The ones that dont generate money are there in the hopes that they will at least generate interest.

Its an investment. A business. But the only people not allowed to be in business are the pawns generating the money.

And as someone else said...even if you dont pay them....let someone else. Johnny Football should be the only one not getting rich off his popularity? Id sign some autographs for a fee too.

[gts]

Was Nerlens Noel part of that CBA? He was not allowed to apply to the NBA, went to college, and blew out his knee.

Students unionizing is the first step towards future Nerlens Noels having a voice in decisions that impact them but not being allowed in the negotiations.
Now you're just arguing to argue.... :lol

Hope somebody takes your bait but I'm gonna pass.. you asked a question and got an answer then changed the question... :lol

[Akrazotile]

Now you're just arguing to argue.... :lol

Hope somebody takes your bait but I'm gonna pass.. you asked a question and got an answer then changed the question... :lol


Nicely done, sir. You dispatched him quick and easy, and brushed your hands to signal finality. Very nice. :applause:

[Akrazotile]

Do you think these places are helmed by idiots?



Nope. Just attended by them.

[Jailblazers7]

But the point that Sarcastic made is important and its what I've been tip-toeing around in this thread. The people harmed by the 1-and-done rule are powerless to change the NCAA rules and influences the CBA. Of course the Player's Union is going to allow the 1-and-done because it is a valuable bargaining chip that costs the players already in the league $0.

And I was saying that shifting the financial risk on to players is a bad thing. Owners are free to not draft players out of HS if they choose to but HS players shouldn't be barred from the draft.

[Akrazotile]

But the point that Sarcastic made is important and its what I've been tip-toeing around in this thread. The people harmed by the 1-and-done rule are powerless to change the NCAA rules and influences the CBA. Of course the Player's Union is going to allow the 1-and-done because it is a valuable bargaining chip that costs the players already in the league $0.


That's why they're free to unionize. If the most talented players in high school collectively boycott the "play-for-free" system, it'll be changed.

Each group - The NBA, the NCAA, and the players - all have a right to protect their own interests.

Idiots like Sarcastic are too stupid to understand how the world works, and he thinks it's the NBA's responsibility to run its business in a way that benefits a bunch of kids they don't know more than it benefits themselves. The dude is a fool.

Let them unionize. Let them use whatever leverage they have. Let the NCAA use whatever leverage it has. Let the NBA do the same. The market will sort the whole thing out. Everyone else has no reason to take sides.




And I was saying that shifting the financial risk on to players is a bad thing. Owners are free to not draft players out of HS if they choose to but HS players shouldn't be barred from the draft.

What do you mean "shouldn't" be. According to what moral authority? You? If the NBA has the power to protect their interest, let them. If the players have the power to change it, let them. This isn't life or death. This isn't human bondage. This is simply professional business.

You realize that if the players union got all the things players WANT, the league would be absolute SHIT for fans? It would be unwatchable. Stupid fans always want to fight against "the system" when usually the system is the best option. They're just looking for a way to feel important.

[gts]

To the topic.. What a mess this will/would be to sort out.. I wonder how it would work?

A union obviously has to have an agreement with a sanctioning body/employer to operate...

you have so many different groups represented in college sports... There's the school itself, there's the conference it belongs to then the NCAA that oversees the various sporting events but not all of them...

this just looks like it would be a big mess... It could be years before the labor courts sorted out who the union would have a deal with add NCAA is already taking heat from some forces that would like to see it's power limited or dismissed altogether...

Does the union strike it's deal with the conference? the individual schools or the NCAA who has different deals with the various conferences and schools already...

Eeek

[Jailblazers7]

They shouldn't be allowed to based on the principle that people should be free to sell their labor for a fairly negotiated market wage (which is the standard that is strived for in labor markets). Just because the NBA is a business and will be run like one doesn't make the point any less valid. Nobody is bringing up the topic of human bandage or life/death so let's not act like I'm (or Sarcastic) is being hyperbolic here. This is just a discussion and the point he made is an important one.

[gts]

They shouldn't be allowed to based on the principle that people should be free to sell their labor for a fairly negotiated market wage (which is the standard that is strived for in labor markets). Just because the NBA is a business and will be run like one doesn't make the point any less valid. Nobody is bringing up the topic of human bandage or life/death so let's not act like I'm (or Sarcastic) is being hyperbolic here. This is just a discussion and the point he made is an important one.

They're allowed to because the NBA and the NBPA, the very same union these players will have to join if they want to play have agreed that there is an age limit to come into the league and join the union. It's negotiated and it's legal by the labor laws of the USA. It will be 20 years old if the NBPA gets the rookie scale contract changes they want in the next CBA negotiation.

You can say it shouldn't be allowed all night long but the fact is it is allowed, and it has been found legal when challenged in the past.

But once again this actually has nothing to do with the topic which has nothing to do with the NBA NFL MLB or any pro sport league

[Jailblazers7]

Yeah, I mean I'm not arguing the legality of the CBA...it's just a policy that I really don't agree with but I digress. It's one of the underlying reasons for NO players wanting to unionize which is a why I kept bringing it up. Didn't mean to derail the thread tho so carry on.

[Akrazotile]

They shouldn't be allowed to based on the principle that people should be free to sell their labor for a fairly negotiated market wage (which is the standard that is strived for in labor markets). Just because the NBA is a business and will be run like one doesn't make the point any less valid. Nobody is bringing up the topic of human bandage or life/death so let's not act like I'm (or Sarcastic) is being hyperbolic here. This is just a discussion and the point he made is an important one.


They ARE completely free to sell their labor for a fairly negotiated market wage. That doesn't obligate anyone to take them or negotiate with them. It just means they have the right to pursue work. It doesn't guarantee they'll find it, and on their own terms at that. You make it sound as if there is some federal statute prohibiting basketball players from playing in the NBA at 18. THAT would be illegal. All the courts have said is that it's the NBA's right as a business to decide whom it hires.

Why should employees be free to work wherever they want but an employer isn't free to hire whomever it wants?

That's what I'm saying. This is not an issue to be solved by a third party's sympathy or pity. This is a free market issue. BOTH sides have the right to make their own choices. Neither is guaranteed anything. That's how life works.

[gts]

Yeah, I mean I'm not arguing the legality of the CBA...it's just a policy that I really don't agree with but I digress. It's one of the underlying reasons for NO players wanting to unionize which is a why I kept bringing it up. Didn't mean to derail the thread tho so carry on.
I'm still trying to understand how the college players would get it done... I looked to the Tulane sports law guy on twitter Gabe Feldman who's really sharp and he's just said it would be a long uphill battle...lol

[Just2McFly]

Are most schools really losing money on there athletic programs? I have a hard time believing they would keep them if that were the case
Only on ish would someone use d-1 college football as an example of a school losing money, like we are stupid.

[Akrazotile]

I'm still trying to understand how the college players would get it done... I looked to the Tulane sports law guy on twitter Gabe Feldman who's really sharp and he's just said it would be a long uphill battle...lol

No question.

Honestly, unions are built on the backs of probably the best 20% workers. It's set up so that the people who over-achieve often get capped, to support those in the union who underachieve.

Lebron is capped by the CBA from earning what he deserves, because the union has to make sure Eddy Curry and Baron Davis get guaranteed paychecks. THATS how unions work.

If a stud high school athlete doesn't want to risk his career playing for free in college, then he should just sit out and sign endorsement deals and collect checks til he gets to the big leagues. There are PLENTY of companies willing to do that.

Jadaveon Clowney could have easily done that this year. Would his draft stock tumble a bit? Probably. Would he still make millions of dollars in the draft? Yes. And he wouldn't have had to play for free to risk injury.

You can't have everything you want. If you're a stud, and you don't want to risk injury, then sit and take the endorsements and whatever money you get where you're drafted. And then just build your career from there. Otherwise, go to college and play. Trying to unionize when the vast majority of college athletes are replaceable and insignificant is a waste of time for the few who actually do matter.

[Jailblazers7]

I'm still trying to understand how the college players would get it done... I looked to the Tulane sports law guy on twitter Gabe Feldman who's really sharp and he's just said it would be a long uphill battle...lol

Yeah, the organization of it would be absurd tbh. Different sports (and genders) have different priorities and the size/structure of college sports makes it seem completely unworkable. It seems like only the cash cow sports would be worth unionizing.

And just one last point about the god damn age rule lol. I didn't mean that they should be free to apply to the job (thru the draft). Don't want to hire them? Don't draft them. OK that's seriously it lol I've already spent too much time talking about this.

[Akrazotile]

Honestly, people act like college sports were set up from Day 1 to be financial behemoths. That's really not the case. Nobody actually predicted something like this when they started playing the game a hundred years ago.

The problem is that traditionally college sports are supposed to be an amateur institution. That's part of their identity, it's part of what appeals to so many people about them. Which is easy to maintain when there's not a ton of cash involved. Once there is, it becomes dicey.

Whatever the NCAA were to pay players, it would be a relatively small portion of the pie and I don't think the money is the reason they drag their feet on this issue.

But if they do pay players, they lose the uniqueness of their brand. That's the issue. Then they're just a smaller version of the NFL. Which they already are in practice, but at least without paying players they can convince some of the fans there's more integrity in the game and in amateur sports. That's the real reason they don't want to pay players IMO. To preserve the mystique of college athletics. That's worth more than whatever money they would pay the players.