Was Kobe Bryant capable of shooting 50% in his prime?

[Jameerthefear]

He's obviously never done it, but with last year being his most efficient season was he ever capable?

[Fire Colangelo]

I would rather Kobe shooting a fadeaway over two defenders over the likes of Smush Parker, Luke Walton shooting a open jumper.

But yes, I think if Kobe picked his spots he could've shot 50% in his prime.

[Micku]

If he was smarter with his shot selection, yes. He could've been better overall if he was smarter with his shot selection.

[longtime lurker]

He's obviously never done it, but with last year being his most efficient season was he ever capable?

http://sports-memes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/NBA-Memes4.png

[Illuminati]

A few days ago, I found out Bill "Mr. 11 rangz" Russell hasn't shot 50% for a season either. :wtf:

I mean, what the **** kind of center are you. He's at 44% FG for his career. :wtf: How is that even possible.

[Jameerthefear]

another great by Jameer the queer :bowdown:

is Jameer capable of losing his virginity should be the real question...
Already lost it.

[Jameerthefear]

http://sports-memes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/NBA-Memes4.png
unfunny

[longtime lurker]

unfunny

But oh so accurate

[Micku]

I would rather Kobe shooting a fadeaway over two defenders over the likes of Smush Parker, Luke Walton shooting a open jumper.

But yes, I think if Kobe picked his spots he could've shot 50% in his prime.

Even then he would still take unnecessary bad shots, which made him a bit inconsistent. He would dribble to the corner while three guys were on him and shoot a fadeaway. He could've been quicker about it, and not let the defense set up. He could've been better than what he was, but maybe he had to iso and dribble a lot to get in the rhythm.

But when the game is on the line, Kobe shooting it over two defenders is better than Smush Parker shooting it.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Jammeer gunnin for the most post in a week record :bowdown:

[Milbuck]

Already lost it.
Getting penetrated doesn't really count man.

[Jameerthefear]

Jammeer gunnin for the most post in a week record :bowdown:
what is the record?

[TheMarkMadsen]

He shot 50% in the finals :confusedshrug:

[AussieG]

If they gave you an extra point for shooting over double or triple teams or degree of difficulty, Kobe would be the GOAT.

[Bibby4Three]

Lol with his shot selection?

Stop.

[TheMarkMadsen]

what is the record?

I wanna say somewhere around 1,500

[Illuminati]

MarkMadsen you seem like a knowledgeable poster. Can you answer my question at the top. I'm very curious.

[imnew09]

Already lost it.

fking inflatable anime models don't count man

[TheMarkMadsen]

MarkMadsen you seem like a knowledgeable poster. Can you answer my question at the top. I'm very curious.


The one about Russell?

[Illuminati]

The one about Russell?

Yes. How can a center like him that dominated in that era, won 11 rings, but somehow never shot 50% for a season.

[Levity]

it kobe had more a passive mentality, definitely. but we all know he didnt. his mentality was, "i can make every shot i take" and thats the way he would play, regardless of who or how many people were guarding him

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Yes. How can a center like him that dominated in that era, won 11 rings, but somehow never shot 50% for a season.
Simple. he wasnt a good offensive player and he wasnt that HUGE. he played in the best era for Centers too:coleman:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Yes. How can a center like him that dominated in that era, won 11 rings, but somehow never shot 50% for a season.


I honestly have no idea, I never saw him play and haven't watched much footage, he wasn't really known for his offense, and after a quick look on bball reference I see he averaged 15 points on 14 shots per game one year which is pretty awful..

CavaliersFTW or some of the other older/basketball historian esque posters would probably be able to help you out tho :cheers:

[TruHeatFan]

Man I used to love Kobe in his prime when I was a Laker fan

[Dragonyeuw]

Yes. How can a center like him that dominated in that era, won 11 rings, but somehow never shot 50% for a season.

League wide percentages were considerably lower during Russell's era compared to today. His percentages were pretty much right in line with the averages of the day.

Also, Russell was an ok at best offensive player, not even the main scoring weapon on those Celtic teams. He was first and foremost the teams defensive anchor, that is where he was a pioneer and dominant.

[Levity]

Man I used to love Kobe in his prime when I was a Laker fan

:oldlol:

[Illuminati]

OK, thanks for your posts. :cheers:

[Illuminati]

Man I used to love Kobe in his prime when I was a Laker fan

6 posts in and I already know this is Fudge. :oldlol: Too easy bruh.

[Dragonyeuw]

To the OP's question, was Kobe capable? Yes. The number of threes he took and shot selection is primarily why he never cracked 50% while 'worse shooter' perimeter contemporaries like Lebron and Wade shot higher percentages( aided by their games being more slashing based, whereas Kobe's game obviously is more perimeter shooting based).

[TruHeatFan]

6 posts in and I already know this is Fudge. :oldlol: Too easy bruh.
Who is fudge

[Young X]

If you take 3's into account he pretty much already did.

Last year for example his FG% was 46% but that's only assuming all of his shots were 2's, once you add the 132 extra points he made from 3 pointers he had the same exact efficiency from the field as a regular 50% shooting center that doesn't shoot 3's. (50 EFG%)

10/20 with no threes

8/20 with 4 threes

= same thing

[JohnFreeman]

No, but he is better then Durant.

[Magic 32]

most of the 2001, 2002, 2006, 2008 and 2010 playoffs.

[Jameerthefear]

No, but he is better then Durant.
Not really.

[Cold soul]

Yes, kobe could of. His shot selection hurts him along with ego and pride getting in the way. Those faults always held him back from shooting 50%.

[Cold soul]

most of the 2001, 2002, 2006, 2008 and 2010 playoffs.

You forgot about 2009 playoffs maybe the best of his career.

[absalom]

Who is fudge

WTF, truheatfan banned already?:lol

[absalom]

another great by Jameer the queer :bowdown:

is Jameer capable of losing his virginity should be the real question...

:lebronamazed:

[ImKobe]

No, Kobe sucks. Wow, having a 4% worse FG% for his career than MJ, what a horrible scorer.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Nah, Kobe didn't care enough to protect his FG% a'la Durant.

His points per shot is pretty close to MJ's though, thanks to the 3 ball. That makes up for the difference in 2pt FG% (50% to 48%), which isn't even that big when you think about it.

FG% is going the way of batting average in baseball, it's barely referenced anymore.

[Mr. Jabbar]

he could have, but he didnt care, he was never the cherry picking type, you see a lot better basketball when players are not checking their stats on every timeout a la lebron

[Jabari Parker]

:roll: Kobe stans getting ethered left and right. :applause:

[SexSymbol]

People don't understand that if you shoot 20 times ant make 10 it's 50 percent, if you make 9 it's 45 percet. Even at great volume the difference is only one shot. He could've averaged 55 perfect FG% if he completely got rid of 3pt shooting and shot only on post-ups/drives.

[joeyjoejoe]

Yes, kobe could of. His shot selection hurts him along with ego and pride getting in the way. Those faults always held him back from shooting 50%.

I agree but his ppg would of dropped for sure

[Cold soul]

I agree but his ppg would of dropped for sure

Yeah maybe a little.

[NumberSix]

A few days ago, I found out Bill "Mr. 11 rangz" Russell hasn't shot 50% for a season either. :wtf:

I mean, what the **** kind of center are you. He's at 44% FG for his career. :wtf: How is that even possible.
It's called being extremely overrated.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Of course he could have, several inferior offensive players have done it. But that's not his style and when a guy has 5 rings it's tough to argue with his approach. It's not like he was an inefficient player. Occasionally it would lead to him shooting LA out of a game but it's also why he scored 81. There isn't much justifiable criticism for the way he played.

[HOoopCityJones]

He's taken some of the most difficult shots of all time.

[OldSchoolBBall]

No. He was never intelligent enough on the court to do so. Not at the ppg volume he was accustomed to averaging.

[comerb]

He's obviously never done it, but with last year being his most efficient season was he ever capable?

Yes, he was capable of it. That was always my complaint with Kobe. It wasn't that he wasn't extremely talented and a fantastic player, it's that he took STUPID low percentage shots all the god damn time. Iverson was the same way, a fantastic talent that made himself and his team less than they could have been by taking dumb shots.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Yes, he was capable of it. That was always my complaint with Kobe. It wasn't that he wasn't extremely talented and a fantastic player, it's that he took STUPID low percentage shots all the god damn time. Iverson was the same way, a fantastic talent that made himself and his team less than they could have been by taking dumb shots.

His dumbness is part of who he is as a player though. You can't separate that. It's like saying "if you gave every superstar player Larry Bird's bball IQ/court awareness, could they do X/Y/Z." It doesn't work that way.

[ArbitraryWater]

A few days ago, I found out Bill "Mr. 11 rangz" Russell hasn't shot 50% for a season either. :wtf:

I mean, what the **** kind of center are you. He's at 44% FG for his career. :wtf: How is that even possible.

Agree with the statement, but, you just found that out a few days ago?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Kobe Bryant is a dumb player now? Really? Are we thinking about this? He shot 45%, career. That's in line with the other star wings around his age, Pierce, McGrady, Carter, etc.

[Derivative]

The fact is that Kobe can't even shoot over 48%, so quit assuming that prime Kobe could of shot over 50% if he tried.

Even with a star-studded lineup of Gasol Howard and Nash, which is suppose to increase FG%, Kobe still couldn't shoot over 48%.

The elite perimeter scorers are separated from the good volume chuckers by 50%FG and 60%TS.


Kobe is just the best out of the high volume chucker pack of players. But he's still not in the league of MJ, Durant, Lebron, prime Wade.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Regarding Russell, people do realize that his primary impact was not as a scorer, right? He was defensively dominant. Also great on the boards. It is possible to be a great player without being a great offensive player.

[iamgine]

He's obviously never done it, but with last year being his most efficient season was he ever capable?
While averaging 2 points...sure he can shoot 100% even.

While averaging 35 ppg, nope.

There's somewhere in between that where he could hit 50%.

[AirFederer]

Not at that volume

[Calabis]

No he wasnt capable, if he was he would have.

[GOATbe]

No, he wasn't a stat padder.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe Bryant is a dumb player now? Really? Are we thinking about this? He shot 45%, career. That's in line with the other star wings around his age, Pierce, McGrady, Carter, etc.

"Dumb" specifically as it related to his scoring, and also only in comparison to other top 10 players. He probably has the lowest bball IQ and court awareness out of that group.

[andgar923]

"Dumb" specifically as it related to his scoring, and also only in comparison to other top 10 players. He probably has the lowest bball IQ and court awareness out of that group.
why are people debating this?

Even he said that he blocks out his teammates and only focuses on scoring. Anybody that's seen him play with an objective eye should know this.

Not only does he have low IQ, he settles too much.

Kobe is an enigma... at times he looks like the smartest player on the court, fully aware of everything. Then he goes into dumBe mode and makes the most amateur decisions.

[Real Men Wear Green]

"Dumb" specifically as it related to his scoring, and also only in comparison to other top 10 players. He probably has the lowest bball IQ and court awareness out of that group.He had a more aggressive approach to scoring and you interpret that as a sign of stupidity. But how can you say his approach was wrong when he had so much success? He actually shot a slightly higher percentage than Carter, McGrady, and Pierce and was the best or second-best player for five Championship runs. This is the guy you're calling a dumb player. You allege poor court awareness and yet he averages 4.7 assists per game, career. Bryant is a basketball genius. I really don't get how anyone can say he's a stupid player. His aggressive approach to scoring has led to some nights where he could be fairly accused of ballhogging but overall he has been great for the Lakers without question. 5 rings and an MVP is unquestionably great results.

[Bush4Ever]

Absolutely not, at least while scoring "superstar" amounts of points and having a similar role in the offense within year.

The gap between 45/46 and 50 percent is actually very substantial in statistical terms.

[Real Men Wear Green]

why are people debating this?

Even he said that he blocks out his teammates and only focuses on scoring. Anybody that's seen him play with an objective eye should know this.

Not only does he have low IQ, he settles too much.

Kobe is an enigma... at times he looks like the smartest player on the court, fully aware of everything. Then he goes into dumBe mode and makes the most amateur decisions.
What you don't seem to realize is that a guy can't be a great scorer if he doesn't have times where he's focused on scoring. Jordan had to be made into more of a team-oriented player by Phil Jackson. Was he a dumb player?

[chazzy]

Maybe if he played a ton out of the post for a full season and cut down his 3s to a bare minimum. Doesn't necessarily make him more efficient though - in 07 he was just as efficient as Wade's ever been despite not hitting the 50% mark

[Rake2204]

I think it's quite clear Kobe Bryant could have shot 50% from the field. I think it just would have required a more refined approach to his shot selection, as others have said. But, also as others said, perhaps a refined shot selection would have made Kobe less Kobe.

Personally, Bryant's willingness to take incredibly difficult shots on a regular basis didn't always appeal to me as a fan, and it's why I tended to prefer the approach of a LeBron James (before he left for Miami). I preferred the right play to constantly attempting the most difficult play. But they're both obviously great players. I'm not looking to begin a debate in that regard.


A few days ago, I found out Bill "Mr. 11 rangz" Russell hasn't shot 50% for a season either. :wtf:

I mean, what the **** kind of center are you. He's at 44% FG for his career. :wtf: How is that even possible.From all I've read over the years, the game was a lot different back then. As in, teams didn't necessarily work for the best shot possible, but the first shot possible. I think this led to a lot of field goal attempts, mediocre percentages, and a ton of rebounds (hence the crazy 50+ individual rebound records out there). It might make more sense to compare Russell's field goal percentage to that of his contemporaries. It may fall right in line.

[Bush4Ever]

Yes. How can a center like him that dominated in that era, won 11 rings, but somehow never shot 50% for a season.

Field goal percentages were depressed in the league during that era on the whole. Relative to his era, that actually wasn't all that bad. He even was in the top 5 in FG percentage one year IIRC, or something like that.

That is why it is better to compare a player to his peers than to compare across eras.

[Lebron23]

He patterned his game after Michael Jordan, but not his efficiency. A 35 yrs.old Jordan was still a very efficient scorer in the regular season.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1201/kobe.bryant.michael.jordan/images/KNEAL.jpg

[Lebron23]

Maybe if he played a ton out of the post for a full season and cut down his 3s to a bare minimum. Doesn't necessarily make him more efficient though - in 07 he was just as efficient as Wade's ever been despite not hitting the 50% mark


It's kinda true. Jordan had a few 3 points attempts in his first few seasons in the NBA.

[Bush4Ever]

From all I've read over the years, the game was a lot different back then. As in, teams didn't necessarily work for the best shot possible, but the first shot possible. I think this led to a lot of field goal attempts, mediocre percentages, and a ton of rebounds (hence the crazy 50+ individual rebound records out there).

The pace of the game was stupefying in the 1950s/60s.

Hardly anyone considers this when reflecting on the Big O's triple double season, or Wilt/Russell averaging 20+ rebounds per game, etc...

It really drives home the point that especially with respect to statistics, one needs to compare a player to their peers, rather than across eras.

[OldSchoolBBall]

He had a more aggressive approach to scoring and you interpret that as a sign of stupidity.

If even his detractors agree that he COULD be more efficient, but he isn't, and you even here say that he takes what can only be characterized as a sub-optimal approach to scoring, how is that NOT dumb?

Again, "dumb" meaning that he could play smarter, more effective ball in this department, and only as compared to his peers in the top 10-15.


But how can you say his approach was wrong when he had so much success?

Because team success is based on a number of factors besides the efficiency of one's scoring? And also, this is a non-sequitur because it doesn't preclude the fact that he could have had the same or better team success with a more optimal style of scoring, even at the same volume.

He actually shot a slightly higher percentage than Carter, McGrady, and Pierce and was the best or second-best player for five Championship runs. This is the guy you're calling a dumb player. You allege poor court awareness and yet he averages 4.7 assists per game, career. Bryant is a basketball genius. I really don't get how anyone can say he's a stupid player. His aggressive approach to scoring has led to some nights where he could be fairly accused of ballhogging but overall he has been great for the Lakers without question. 5 rings and an MVP is unquestionably great results.[/QUOTE]

[Prometheus]

No, he wasn't a stat padder.

do you realize that leBron has personally redefined "stat-padding"? volume scorers on bad teams used to be accused of stat-padding by taking a lot of shots to get their numbers at the expense of their team. "Iverson scored 40 last night" -- "yeah but he took 30 shots, he was just padding his stats". and someone who shot a higher % was recognized as a more effective offensive player. now it's in style to hate LeBron, so you losers have flipped the script. the old definition makes a lot more sense.

[ImKobe]

He patterned his game after Michael Jordan, but not his efficiency. A 35 yrs.old Jordan was still a very efficient scorer in the regular season.



Wow, 4% difference in their career FG%'s, holy christ.

[GOATbe]

do you realize that leBron has personally redefined "stat-padding"? volume scorers on bad teams used to be accused of stat-padding by taking a lot of shots to get their numbers at the expense of their team. "Iverson scored 40 last night" -- "yeah but he took 30 shots, he was just padding his stats". and someone who shot a higher % was recognized as a more effective offensive player. now it's in style to hate LeBron, so you losers have flipped the script. the old definition makes a lot more sense.
Iverson was forced to shoot alot, he was surrounded by scrubs his whole career:facepalm . The guy that literally passes up wide open jumpshots so the scrub next to him can get a contested 3 is a stat padder, the guy that plays in garbage time cus he couldn't get above 20 points with Boris Diaw defense is a stat padder. It makes more sense too, no doubt. :facepalm

[Derivative]

Wow, 4% difference in their career FG%'s, holy christ.


4% is HUGE statistically considering the parameter is between 40%-50%.

Where as if you shoot 40% as a player you're a horrible chucker, and if you shoot 50% as a perimeter player you're godly efficient.

4% is HUGE

[Prometheus]

Iverson was forced to shoot alot, he was surrounded by scrubs his whole career:facepalm . The guy that literally passes up wide open jumpshots so the scrub next to him can get a contested 3 is a stat padder, the guy that plays in garbage time cus he couldn't get above 20 points with Boris Diaw defense is a stat padder. It makes more sense too, no doubt. :facepalm

you're missing the point. were you capable of understanding the point in your prime?

[Real Men Wear Green]

If even his detractors agree that he COULD be more efficient, but he isn't, and you even here say that he takes what can only be characterized as a sub-optimal approach to scoring, how is that NOT dumb?

Again, "dumb" meaning that he could play smarter, more effective ball in this department, and only as compared to his peers in the top 10-15.Because I am capable of looking at the whole of his game while you nitpick over a few details. No basketball player is out there taking a ton of shots he doesn't believe he can make. Bryant being an aggressive scorer like he is has taken some bad shots but the net effect has been extremely positive. The player does not exist who we can't nitpick and say, "he should not have done ___." IF you are going to call Bryant a dumb player just because he's taken some bad shots then we can call just about everyone dumb for one reason or another. He shot no worse than his contemporaries, Pierce, McGrady, and Carter, so why is he a dumb player? He's an MVP with five rings. That level of accomplishment merits a high level of respect. This is a dumb player? I can't take that kind of analysis seriously.


Because team success is based on a number of factors besides the efficiency of one's scoring? And also, this is a non-sequitur because it doesn't preclude the fact that he could have had the same or better team success with a more optimal style of scoring, even at the same volume.
Some factors are more important than others. Bryant was the best player for 2 Championships and an extremely important #2 for another 3. 45% shooting was the norm for a star for most of Bryant's career. Just because he could have maybe been a little better doesn't mean we should disregard what he accomplished and be so disrespectful as to call him a "dumb" player. That's ridiculous.

[ImKobe]

4% is HUGE statistically considering the parameter is between 40%-50%.

Where as if you shoot 40% as a player you're a horrible chucker, and if you shoot 50% as a perimeter player you're godly efficient.

4% is HUGE

MJ and Lebron's higher fg% comes from their godly ability to score inside, Kobe was never as good of an inside scorer as those two, if you compare their shooting outside the paint they all shoot a similar percentage overall.

MJ and Lebron = athletic freaks with big hands, Kobe can't even palm the ball.

[Derivative]

MJ and Lebron's higher fg% comes from their godly ability to score inside, Kobe was never as good of an inside scorer as those two, if you compare their shooting outside the paint they all shoot a similar percentage overall.

MJ and Lebron = athletic freaks with big hands, Kobe can't even palm the ball.

if you look at the stats MJ almost consistently shoot 5-6% higher than Kobe at the midrange area, so it's not just his inside game

but then again i dont get why its not alright to be inferior to god

[andgar923]

What you don't seem to realize is that a guy can't be a great scorer if he doesn't have times where he's focused on scoring. Jordan had to be made into more of a team-oriented player by Phil Jackson. Was he a dumb player?

Won't even waste my time with this argument.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Won't even waste my time with this argument.
It's much better to waste time with a non-argument?

[scm5]

MJ and Lebron's higher fg% comes from their godly ability to score inside, Kobe was never as good of an inside scorer as those two, if you compare their shooting outside the paint they all shoot a similar percentage overall.

MJ and Lebron = athletic freaks with big hands, Kobe can't even palm the ball.

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Dwyane%20Wade

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kevin%20Durant

I pulled up stats for Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and Durant. The only one who hasn't shot 50% or better for a season is Kobe and you can tell that it's his shot selection rather than his ability to score efficiently.

Kobe finishes at the rim at around the same efficiency as Wade, it's just that Kobe takes way more midrange shots than Wade does.

[gts]

Kobe Bryant is a dumb player now? Really? Are we thinking about this? He shot 45%, career. That's in line with the other star wings around his age, Pierce, McGrady, Carter, etc.

It's Loki.. Kobe's been living in the guy's head so long he actually owns it via the Homestead act

[OldSchoolBBall]

BHe shot no worse than his contemporaries, Pierce, McGrady, and Carter, so why is he a dumb player?

Umm, because his skill level dictates that he should be MORE efficient than them, especially since he was a comparable athlete. But since he was DUMBER than them, he was only AS efficient as them.

If they all had the same bball IQ/court awareness, Kobe would EASILY be the most efficient of those players, because he is more skilled than them. But he was only "as efficient" as them, and that reflects a deficiency in his bball IQ relative to theirs, and especially relative to guys like Lebron and Wade (since I don't regard Vince and TMac too highly in terms of bball IQ either).

[gts]

Umm, because his skill level dictates that he should be MORE efficient than them, especially since he was a comparable athlete. But since he was DUMBER than them, he was only AS efficient as them.

If they all had the same bball IQ/court awareness, Kobe would EASILY be the most efficient of those players, because he is more skilled than them. But he was only "as efficient" as them, and that reflects a deficiency in his bball IQ relative to theirs, and especially relative to guys like Lebron and Wade (since I don't regard Vince and TMac too highly in terms of bball IQ either).

You're a fuc*ing hater who will spout any amount of amazing BS to make a point that isn't even there

Here's what it takes for Kobe to be a 50% shooter career wise

Less than one more made shot per game... understand that? over a 17 year career if he had averaged slightly less than one more made shot per game according to you he'd be a genius but he didn't so now he's stupid low IQ player

And this is considering that of the all time greats Kobe has taken more 3 point shots than Magic, Bird and Jordan combined...

Seriously you're talking nonsense, you're splitting split hairs that anybody with an ounce of sense wouldn't even mention...

[Real Men Wear Green]

Umm, because his skill level dictates that he should be MORE efficient than them, especially since he was a comparable athlete. But since he was DUMBER than them, he was only AS efficient as them.

If they all had the same bball IQ/court awareness, Kobe would EASILY be the most efficient of those players, because he is more skilled than them. But he was only "as efficient" as them, and that reflects a deficiency in his bball IQ relative to theirs,
Did you see prime T-Mac? He was as skilled as anyone, one of the greatest scorers the game has ever seen. He and Carter were both more athletic than Bryant. As for Pierce, he had more strength and an extremely high skill level himself. McGrady and Carter could score on anyone anywhere and at his peak Carter's slashing was feared. There is nothing to indicate these guys are/were smarter players than Bryant. You've just taken a conclusion that makes no sense and are now inventing a justification for it.
and especially relative to guys like Lebron and Wade (since I don't regard Vince and TMac too highly in terms of bball IQ either).A major reason why I compare Bryant to the guys in his age group instead of the current stars are the hand-checking rules that were changed in 04-05. That led to an across-the-board rise in FG %age that gives the younger genrations an unfair advantage when we look at career numbers (funnily enough, Bryant is one of the exceptions to this rule). But to address them:

LeBron James has overwhelming physical advantages. Kobe Bryant often had the athletic edge over the man guarding him but there have been player that were his equal physically his entire career. There is no one that can match James size, strength, and speed. No one keeps James from the basket. Better shot selection is a factor here but the most important thing is James physical edge. He's a perimeter player that turns into Shaq when he hits the paint. No one like him.

You do sort of have a point with Wade but it took until his 6th season to take over half a three per game. That has a big effect on shooting numbers. That is of course a result of shot selection but when we are talking about a 3 or 4 % overall difference I'd say that's a mitigating factor.

[andgar923]

It's much better to waste time with a non-argument?

It was a douche move on my behalf.


What you don't seem to realize is that a guy can't be a great scorer if he doesn't have times where he's focused on scoring. Jordan had to be made into more of a team-oriented player by Phil Jackson. Was he a dumb player?

First and foremost I think most of us arguing that Kobe is dumb or makes bad decisions hold Kobe at a higher standard. We don't compare him to somebody like Jennings because that would be an insult to Kobe. We value Kobe and acknowledge his high skill level and legendary status as one of the best players of all time.

That is why we're harsh on him. We aren't comparing him to lesser players, we are comparing him to his peers.

And since people want to compare him to MJ, the critique is even harsher and more critical.

Now that we have some proper perspective on the matter, I do agree generally speaking that scorers do have moments in which they focus on scoring.

But there's a difference on 'how' players go about it. We can compare him to the top scorers of today and of all time and his decision making was very shaky not just by the high standards that we have of him, but by regular player standards. He simply forces too many bad shots. Other players have forced shots and concentrated on scoring, but not to the degree Kobe has done. Players from past eras weren't taking contested fadeaway shots over two defenders from the 3point line with plenty of time on the clock and with wide open teammates. Show me clips of Bernard King, MJ, Nique, Bird, etc.etc. doing shit like that? Kobe did that at least 3 times a game (I wish i was exaggerating).

Then there's times that he lacked patience and instead of taking another dribble, using a screen, or a give and go he just jacked up a shot... again... with plenty of time and over a defender.

Kobe always had a green light in his head, he has no conscious and that's his strength and ultimately his weakness. He's stated that he doesn't care about fg% which is idiotic for a player to do because you're putting your team in bad situations. Teams even took that strategy daring him and taunting him to shoot because they knew he would force and miss more shots than he'd make.

So even when he did shoot mid range jumpers which are considered high percentage shots, even when he did drive and attempt to dunk or get a layup, he forced the issue and avoided teammates.

Naturally, he's made some tough shots which one would have to make from time to time to give him the confidence to take them repeatedly. But even then, his misses shouldn't give him the green light to force so many bad shots.

Furthermore, Kobe's been privileged to play for an amazing organization, great coach, great teammates and system which have given him the luxury that other players didn't afford. So those numbers are a bit misleading.

Place a player with a similar skill set such as prime Tmac, Ray Allen, Wade, VC, Pierce and a few others under the same circumstances and their efficiency is noticeably higher.

Now, for the season in which he scored a ton and was without Shaq...

He was hot but so was everybody else. But that doesn't mean he didn't take a shitload amount of BAD shots and made dumb decisions that a player of his stature shouldn't have made.

I honestly don't even know why this is even a debate as even some of the most die hard Kobe fans have openly stated that Kobe doesn't care about fg% and that he's not afraid to take bad shots. Some of the more rational ones will say Kobe does make boneheaded decisions, and true Laker fans (aka non Kobe fanboys) have always made it a point to trash him for his selfish boneheaded decisions.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

LeBron>MJ>>>ShotJackBe:applause: :applause:

[pauk]

Yes, shot selection & PPG (FGA) sacrifice.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

if Kobe would average an even more pathetic 22 PPG for his career than MAYBE he would have done it for 2 or 3 seasons:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Sharmer]

He's obviously never done it, but with last year being his most efficient season was he ever capable?

just not good enough to shoot 50%, Wade on the other hand could.

[RighteousMax]

just not good enough to shoot 50%, Wade on the other hand could.
kobe still have five rings though.

[PsychoBe]

he did it in the post season numerous times so yes he was capable

[Sharmer]

kobe still have five rings though.

He was always carried to all his rings by the best Centers in the league footers. First Shaq, then Gasol with Bynum.

[RighteousMax]

He was always carried to all his rings by the best Centers in the league footers. First Shaq, then Gasol with Bynum.
Don't be so naive. If Kobe was carried by them (which is 100 percent false), then Lebron got carried by allen, bosh, wade and miller.

[Sharmer]

Don't be so naive. If Kobe was carried by them (which is 100 percent false), then Lebron got carried by allen, bosh, wade and miller.

I don't disagree. MJ on other hand put the whole team on his back and won 6/6. He was a different beast.

[I<3NBA]

no. but he was clearly capable of hearing a YES in place of a NO.

[Sharmer]

Don't be so naive. If Kobe was carried by them (which is 100 percent false), then Lebron got carried by allen, bosh, wade and miller.

Ray Allen pretty much saved LBJ legacy.

[I<3NBA]

Ray Allen pretty much saved LBJ legacy.
you know who else saved someone else's legacy?

Horry, Fisher, and Artest.

[Nikola_]

with the way he is playing, no .. you need more layups, dunks, transition offense for that

[RighteousMax]

Ray Allen pretty much saved LBJ legacy.
yes him and coach pop

[RighteousMax]

you know who else saved someone else's legacy?

Horry, Fisher, and Artest.
dont forget about haslem, battier and chalmers.

[I<3NBA]

dont forget about haslem, battier and chalmers.
or how about Kerr and Paxon?

we could go on all night about this until you realize how idiotic "saving someone else's legacy" on a team sports sound.

[RighteousMax]

or how about Kerr and Paxon?

we could go on all night about this until you realize how idiotic "saving someone else's legacy" on a team sports sound.
so dont say kobe was carried when he obviously wasn't.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I don't get what's so difficult to comprehend:

Would being more efficient on similar/equal ppg volume have helped his team's performance? Unquestionably yes. This is a truism.

Was Kobe PHYSICALLY AND SKILL-WISE capable of shooting 50% ever? Yes. Undoubtedly.

Kobe did not shoot even 47% for a single season. This is CLEARLY due to something BESIDES his skills and athletic ability. I, and many others, submit that it is due to his decision making in terms of his shot taking. This is an aspect of basketball IQ and court awareness.

Thus, Kobe was DUMB in the sense that he would have fairly easily been more efficient, helping his team perform even better than they did (and that his team has had success is irrelevant - they could have been even MORE successful is the point), but he did not do so due to various mental and character flaws, not any deficiency in his tangible game.

This is fairly easy for anyone to see.

[gyu]

Over a short stretch? Yes.

Over a whole season? No.

[6 for 24]

This is a very interesting topic!

When I first read the question, I thought "Pshhh it is physically impossible for one player to shoot 50% of his team's shots. That would be almost 50 shots a game!" But then we are talking about Kobe Bryant... and, what's more, PRIME Kobe Bryant? Well then, that changes things! Let's do the math.

In his best season, 2005-06 using my revolutionary SHOTS (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324201)™ formula, we can see that Kobe shot 35% of the Laker team's totals (dominating the league). So going by that, I am quite confident that my initual instincts were correct and that this 50% goal is indeed quite unreachable.

I hope this has sufficiently resolved your inquiry.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye