Harden should come off the bench

[KungFuJoe]

Houston should start Lin and Beverely. It won't be a drop off on the defensive side because Harden is like a pylon out there. Ellis had what...6 points last night against Bev/Lin? He had 37 earlier in the year with Harden on him. Lin shows that he can produce at a high level without Harden (21/8 on 53% or something like that) and Bev provides energy and hustle and the timely 3 here and there. Bev/Lin starts off setting the tone of moving the ball and playing good D on the outside and inside (with Howard).

Then Harden off the bench where he can utilize his offensive prowess against the 2nd unit and his lack of defense won't be so glaring. Probably why his lack of defense wasn't known to everyone when he was in OKC...he came off the bench and started off against the 2nd unit.

Serious thread btw...though I know it will never happen because he's the "superstar" of the team. But I have no doubt this team would play better with him coming off the bench.

[imdaman99]

:lol good one. They averaged how many pts with Harden running the show last year?

[Mr Exlax]

Houston should start Lin and Beverely. It won't be a drop off on the defensive side because Harden is like a pylon out there. Ellis had what...6 points last night against Bev/Lin? He had 37 earlier in the year with Harden on him. Lin shows that he can produce at a high level without Harden (21/8 on 53% or something like that) and Bev provides energy and hustle and the timely 3 here and there. Bev/Lin starts off setting the tone of moving the ball and playing good D on the outside and inside (with Howard).

Then Harden off the bench where he can utilize his offensive prowess against the 2nd unit and his lack of defense won't be so glaring. Probably why his lack of defense wasn't known to everyone when he was in OKC...he came off the bench and started off against the 2nd unit.

Serious thread btw...though I know it will never happen because he's the "superstar" of the team. But I have no doubt this team would play better with him coming off the bench.


The thing about Lin is that I don't think he's really on any team's radar anymore. Once they actually start gameplanning for him again I expect his production to drop off damn near completely. Just like before. I don't think him and Harden can play effectively together until we get a new coach in here that will make Harden play ball the right way.

[Mr Exlax]

:lol good one. They averaged how many pts with Harden running the show last year?

It's funny that the first person to comment is a Knick fan. I smell the butthurt coming off your post. If you had watched us last season, you'd see that Lin was basically handicapped so asking about his averages last year is idiotic. Why not look at his numbers for the current season when Harden is out or he's actually getting FGAs?

[imdaman99]

It's funny that the first person to comment is a Knick fan. I smell the butthurt coming off your post. If you had watched us last season, you'd see that Lin was basically handicapped so asking about his averages last year is idiotic. Why not look at his numbers for the current season when Harden is out or he's actually getting FGAs?
Where did I put Lin down in my post? Just because I think he's an average PG because he never plays in the playoffs, has nothing to do with the fact Harden is a better player and needs to develop his chemistry with Dwight. So you don't put him on the bench just to appease a bunch of asians on the internet.

BOOHOO :cry: Harden is holding Lin down... get over it and accept your role as the backup PG sparkplug.

[Milbuck]

No, he should stay on it all game every game until he quickly fades into irrelevance. Fat ****.

[Mr Exlax]

Where did I put Lin down in my post? Just because I think he's an average PG because he never plays in the playoffs, has nothing to do with the fact Harden is a better player and needs to develop his chemistry with Dwight. So you don't put him on the bench just to appease a bunch of asians on the internet.

BOOHOO :cry: Harden is holding Lin down... get over it and accept your role as the backup PG sparkplug.

While I don't agree with Harden coming off the bench, I will not ignore the fact that we look better across the board when he's out the game. Our offense looks to flow a lot better. Our defense is still blah and turnovers are still blah. I don't think we need to do anything until we get a different coach in there that will bench Harden for freezing out the rest of his teammates in stretches of the game. I feel one day that Harden and Lin will play together just fine. For what it's worth, Lin compliments Dwight a whole lot better than Harden does and I would have slapped in your whore mouth if you would have told me that at the start of the season.

[FKAri]

He's basically like Melo. A ball stopping scorer. He likes to reserve all 24 seconds of the shot clock for himself to get a good shot. He's not a "I'll go right to my move and take the shot if it's there or pass it out" kinda scorer.

EDIT - Im not saying hes selfish tho. Just that he likes to take his time setting up his shot.

[redhonda76]

No. You are not paying 13+ mill/yr for a player to be a bench player. If it's either Lin or Harden to start, it will be Harden. It's the coach's job to make both ball-dominate guard to work, if not Lin will be coming off the bench.

[Clyde]

this thread topic is utter face palm.

[Sharmer]

Houston should start Lin and Beverely. It won't be a drop off on the defensive side because Harden is like a pylon out there. Ellis had what...6 points last night against Bev/Lin? He had 37 earlier in the year with Harden on him. Lin shows that he can produce at a high level without Harden (21/8 on 53% or something like that) and Bev provides energy and hustle and the timely 3 here and there. Bev/Lin starts off setting the tone of moving the ball and playing good D on the outside and inside (with Howard).

Then Harden off the bench where he can utilize his offensive prowess against the 2nd unit and his lack of defense won't be so glaring. Probably why his lack of defense wasn't known to everyone when he was in OKC...he came off the bench and started off against the 2nd unit.

Serious thread btw...though I know it will never happen because he's the "superstar" of the team. But I have no doubt this team would play better with him coming off the bench.


no chance of that happening.

[Black and White]

Trade him and Asik for Afflalo, Big Baby and Vucevic

[YouGotServed]

Another excellent point made by a Jeremy Lin stan.

What's next? Jeremy Lin deserves to be in the all star game?

[ABfor3]

He's basically like Melo. A ball stopping scorer. He likes to reserve all 24 seconds of the shot clock for himself to get a good shot. He's not a "I'll go right to my move and take the shot if it's there or pass it out" kinda scorer.

EDIT - Im not saying hes selfish tho. Just that he likes to take his time setting up his shot.
Harden is nothing like Melo, Melo scores 62 points with 0 assists, Harden would score 46 points and dish out 9 assists..Harden plays too much ISO tho he needs to get the ball moving, it will make the rockets offense much more balanced and he will have an easier time scoring

[Sharmer]

Trade him and Asik for Afflalo, Big Baby and Vucevic


baby is a bigger chucker than Harden.

[Black and White]

baby is a bigger chucker than Harden.

Baby can come off the bench, the real gain is Vucevic and losing Harden for Afflalo, someone who won't hog the ball and move it more

[Sharmer]

Baby can come off the bench, the real gain is Vucevic and losing Harden for Afflalo, someone who won't hog the ball and move it more

Isn't that fat ass still injured? thought players needed to be medically cleared before trades?

[Black and White]

Isn't that fat ass still injured? thought players needed to be medically cleared before trades?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yea they do, what about Tobias instead?

[Sharmer]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yea they do, what about Tobias instead?


No GM would take that risk of trading a player like Harden in their prime. They would have to play it safe or their heads could be chopping block because it could backfire.

[Black and White]

No GM would take that risk of trading a player like Harden in their prime. They would have to play it safe or their heads could be chopping block because it could backfire.

Fair enough, I just think that Houston have so many holes that could be plugged with a trade like that, Harden can be a ball stopper sometimes

[Sharmer]

Fair enough, I just think that Houston have so many holes that could be plugged with a trade like that, Harden can be a ball stopper sometimes


Kobes been the biggest ball stopper in the league, but he was surrounded by enormous talent. Harden will probably do the same.

[Black and White]

Kobes been the biggest ball stopper in the league, but he was surrounded by enormous talent. Harden will probably do the same.

There was a period where he had shitty teammates too though, Harden has great ones right now, he needs to make the most of it

[oarabbus]

No. You are not paying 13+ mill/yr for a player to be a bench player. If it's either Lin or Harden to start, it will be Harden. It's the coach's job to make both ball-dominate guard to work, if not Lin will be coming off the bench.

Ball-DOMINANT not dominate. A player who dominates is dominant, they are two different words.

*end grammar Nazi*

[Sharmer]

Ball-DOMINANT not dominate. A player who dominates is dominant, they are two different words.

*end grammar Nazi*


:sleeping

[KungFuJoe]

At least Kobe played D in his prime. Even a Kobe on a repaired Achilles plays better D than Harden.

Doesn't matter if Harden gets 30 a game if his opponent gets a career high night in and night out against him.

So much of Harden's negative impact is felt outside of a stat sheet. Players like him demoralize a team. No one wants a ball hogging, no D playing teammate. I know I didn't when I was playing. Good D and ball movement is CONTAGIOUS.

[russwest0]

Until Harden learns to play more than one end of the floor he should be a 6th man.

I don't think people truly understood why OKC traded Harden. San Antonio would have done the same thing. If you don't play defense, you won't make it long playing for them either. Especially if you are demanding a max contract.

Rockets would have been much better off keeping Lamb, trading Martin for picks, drafting Adams or Giannis, and then having the Mavericks pick plus a high draft slot in this years draft. Plus more cap space.

They screwed up. They tried to build a team around OKC's one dimensional sixth man. They are headed towards mediocrity out here in the West.

[Mr Exlax]

We need to figure out how to get OKC Harden back. He was a more willing passer and he played defense.

[JohnFreeman]

Harden looks like he eats too many lobsters and butter

[hahaitme]

We need to figure out how to get OKC Harden back. He was a more willing passer and he played defense.

It's because the rockets kissed his ass and crowned him the Franchise player.

Rockets with Dwight and Harden as the 2 leaders? Let's be real, they aren't goin' anywhere. Rockets need a floor general :rockon:

[Mr Exlax]

It's because the rockets kissed his ass and crowned him the Franchise player.

Rockets with Dwight and Harden as the 2 leaders? Let's be real, they aren't goin' anywhere. Rockets need a floor general :rockon:

Give us a coach that will bench a player and I bet Harden turns back into a floor general

[redhonda76]

Ball-DOMINANT not dominate. A player who dominates is dominant, they are two different words.

*end grammar Nazi*

My fault. That was a typo.

[Smook A.]

No, he should stay on it all game every game until he quickly fades into irrelevance. Fat ****.
Harden isn't fat and he's actually a good player

[oarabbus]

My fault. That was a typo.


For sure, wasn't trying to be a dick about it or anything, I just see it really often.


Anyway, Harden made his bones as a 6th man, right? Looks like he's best suited to being a scorer off the bench. Easier to hide his lack of defense too :lol

[YouGotServed]

I still don't know if OP and the posters agreeing with him are serious. Can somebody clue me in? Is this an inside joke or something?

[KungFuJoe]

We need to figure out how to get OKC Harden back. He was a more willing passer and he played defense.

Or were his defensive liabilities better masked because he ran with the 2nd unit?

They also had great perimeter defenders in Sefalosha and Westbrook who covered for a lot of Harden's shortcomings.

I honestly think Harden got whatever D rep he had in OKC because he had a couple good sequences guarding Kobe. I admit I was one of them. My god was I wrong.

[KungFuJoe]

I still don't know if OP and the posters agreeing with him are serious. Can somebody clue me in? Is this an inside joke or something?

Yeah, it's an inside joke between people who actually know how the game of basketball should be played.

[Sharmer]

fvck off


will have to report his unsporting behaviour.

[Sharmer]

At least Kobe played D in his prime. Even a Kobe on a repaired Achilles plays better D than Harden.

Doesn't matter if Harden gets 30 a game if his opponent gets a career high night in and night out against him.

So much of Harden's negative impact is felt outside of a stat sheet. Players like him demoralize a team. No one wants a ball hogging, no D playing teammate. I know I didn't when I was playing. Good D and ball movement is CONTAGIOUS.

Kobe D is over rated. :lol

[YouGotServed]

Yeah, it's an inside joke between people who actually know how the game of basketball should be played.

Are you sure it's not an inside joke between Jeremy Lin stans instead?

[Sharmer]

Harden isn't fat and he's actually a good player


Harden fat, that's baby.

[kobebeangoat]

that flopping ****@t should just retire

[Lateralus]

another lin stan crying because lin still isn't at the level where most people thought. :roll: :roll:

give it up dude.

[Sharmer]

Didnt know there were Lin stans out there. :lol

[Smook A.]

that flopping ****@t should just retire
he's been fined once this season for flopping not 100 times. You should actually watch the games instead of saying what other people say. He doesn't flop often like people say he does. Theres a difference between flopping and selling contact

[Sharmer]

he's been fined once this season for flopping not 100 times. You should actually watch the games instead of saying what other people say. He doesn't flop often. Theres a difference between flopping and selling contact

:biggums:

[Smook A.]

:biggums:
WATCH EVERY SINGLE ROCKET GAMES AND COUNT THE # OF TIMES HE FLOPS :facepalm
Im not being a homer saying he doesnt flop often. Go watch the games then judge. Quit judging his game off of what people say

[Sharmer]

WATCH EVERY SINGLE ROCKET GAMES AND COUNT THE # OF TIMES HE FLOPS :facepalm


I do, get off the pipe.

[Smook A.]

I do, get off the pipe.
Bull crap. Bull freaking crap. Quit lying to yourself

[Sharmer]

Bull crap. Bull freaking crap. Quit lying to yourself


:lol yeah I''ve watched 5 or Houston games this year, based on those games Lin is a flopper. Plus we know Lins kind are floppers, their not hard on defense.

[Smook A.]

:lol yeah I''ve watched 5 or Houston games this year, based on those games Lin is a flopper. Plus we know Lins kind are floppers, their not hard on defense.
5 games? Thats it? LoL
:lol

[Xsatyr]

Lin a flopper??? That's bs.

[Sharmer]

5 games? Thats it? LoL
:lol


:bowdown:

[Smook A.]

:bowdown:
Watch every Rockets game then judge the players. Lin doesn't flop. I have literally watched every single one of his plays. He's just a soft player. When he gets bumped while in mid air, he falls

[oarabbus]

I do, get off the pipe.


You're just a terrible poster man.

[KungFuJoe]

Harden got fined twice in the first 2 weeks of the season about flopping. Admittedly, he stopped doing it right after that (duh), but c'mon...

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1159411/flops_medium.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1190944/flophard.gif

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/thumb/300815482.gif

Dude's a flopper!

[oarabbus]

http://cdn2.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/HARDEN-FLOP.gif

http://i2.hoopchina.com.cn/blogfile/201311/10/138405658867437.gif

[disel]

insecure lin jokers. Harden Is 4 times the player joker lin is and is younger, lot more talented and no sane coach or GM would start lin over harden. loool

[oarabbus]

insecure lin jokers. Harden Is 4 times the player joker lin is and is younger, lot more talented and no sane coach or GM would start lin over harden. loool

Harden is a better player obviously but the Rockets have a winning record with Lin starting, Harden sitting out and Lin averages like 21/8. What a ****ing joker that Lin kid is.

[MMM]

No. You are not paying 13+ mill/yr for a player to be a bench player. If it's either Lin or Harden to start, it will be Harden. It's the coach's job to make both ball-dominate guard to work, if not Lin will be coming off the bench.

How much was Manu making as a 6th man???

[MMM]

Harden got fined twice in the first 2 weeks of the season about flopping. Admittedly, he stopped doing it right after that (duh), but c'mon...

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1159411/flops_medium.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1190944/flophard.gif

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/thumb/300815482.gif

Dude's a flopper!

how can lebron react like that when he is a egregious flopper same thing for Blake although i do think he has lessened his flopping as of late.

Edit: oh shit didn't even notice the double flop with Manu.

[Phantom_Blue]

Can't stick a guy getting max money on the bench, unfortunately.

More like Harden just needs to learn to play off the ball more, which would be good for everyone including his shooting %.

And that "he needs to save his energy for offense" is not valid anymore. No one on this team has problems scoring and getting shots, other than Asik/Dwight, they're all offensively minded players, this ain't the Chicago Bulls.

I'd like to see much better team and defensive effort when he returns, although I said that last year as well when he missed some games and nothing changed.

[Micku]

Can't stick a guy getting max money on the bench, unfortunately.

More like Harden just needs to learn to play off the ball more, which would be good for everyone including his shooting %.

And that "he needs to save his energy for offense" is not valid anymore. No one on this team has problems scoring and getting shots, other than Asik/Dwight, they're all offensively minded players, this ain't the Chicago Bulls.

I'd like to see much better team and defensive effort when he returns, although I said that last year as well when he missed some games and nothing changed.

I don't think that's happening this year. I don't think it'll ever happen until Mchale get a better defensive assistant coach or they just get a different coaching staff all together that will constantly tell him to play d. But Mchale challenged Lin to play better defense, and he showed results for a stretch. Harden played better D on the Thunder, but OKC team defense also help. They weren't elite defensively tho.

I thought Howard would get on him for missing defensive assignments or help them out. We're not seeing it tho. Anyway, they're ok defensively. They have to be better tho if they want to win the West.

[KungFuJoe]

Yeah...I know it ain't happening...but it should if they care about winning.

[redhonda76]

How much was Manu making as a 6th man???

Harden signed a max contract and it's the face of the franchise, not Manu. Putting Harden as a 6th sixth man? I don't think so.

[sd3035]

He should be forced to shave his beard and stop ballhogging, then everything will be fine

[Nick Young]

No. You are not paying 13+ mill/yr for a player to be a bench player. If it's either Lin or Harden to start, it will be Harden. It's the coach's job to make both ball-dominate guard to work, if not Lin will be coming off the bench.
Next year they'll be paying $15,000,000 each to Lin and Asik to be bench players:lol

[WWRWestbrookDo?]

this would never happen. HArden will come off the bench when he gets older but hes got like 10 more years of starting

[Fallen Angel]

Yeah...I know it ain't happening...but it should if they care about Lin.

Fixed. Obvious agenda.