Kobe's Resume Without The GOAT Phil Jackson.

[Illuminati]

1) On the bench, couldn't crack the starting line-up under Del Harris. Backing up Eddie Jones.
2) Missed the playoffs under Rudy/Frank.
3) Made it to semi-finals under Mike Brown, but got demolished by OKC and also choked away a few games.
4) Finally, formed a superteam, Mike Brown fired, barely made the playoffs under D'Antoni and then got swept by Spurs.

Could you imagine if Kobe had Mike Brown and Erik Spoelstra for his career? He wouldn't even make the Finals let alone win a championship.

Discuss.

[iamgine]

What if he had Lebron as help tho

[moe94]

I'm pretty sure Phil Jackson taught him how to play. Kobe didn't even know how to properly dribble until Jackson gave him a couple sessions. I could have won a title with peak Shaq so nothing Kobe does with him counts. Basically, I just hate Kobe.

[JT123]

1) On the bench, couldn't crack the starting line-up under Del Harris. Backing up Eddie Jones.
2) Missed the playoffs under Rudy/Frank.
3) Made it to semi-finals under Mike Brown, but got demolished by OKC and also choked away a few games.
4) Finally, formed a superteam, Mike Brown fired, barely made the playoffs under D'Antoni and then got swept by Spurs.

Could you imagine if Kobe had Mike Brown and Erik Spoelstra for his career? He wouldn't even make the Finals let alone win a championship.

Discuss.
Quoted for truth! :cheers: Kobe would get Spo fired in about 2 weeks, while Lebron has actually managed to make Spo look like an all time great.

[BlackVVaves]

1) On the bench, couldn't crack the starting line-up under Del Harris. Backing up Eddie Jones.
2) Missed the playoffs under Rudy/Frank.
3) Made it to semi-finals under Mike Brown, but got demolished by OKC and also choked away a few games.
4) Finally, formed a superteam, Mike Brown fired, barely made the playoffs under D'Antoni and then got swept by Spurs.

Could you imagine if Kobe had Mike Brown and Erik Spoelstra for his career? He wouldn't even make the Finals let alone win a championship.

Discuss.

Jordan didn't make it to a Finals birth without Phil, Shaq needed Phil and another top 5 coach of all time Riley to get his rings, Duncan had another top 5 coach of all time in Pop.

What are you insinuating? That a player like Bron has been able to win a title without a mind like Phil? Do you think Bron and Spo win a title if anyone one of Wade/Bosh are not also on that roster?

The infinite loop of "Kobe is better than LeBron BECAUSE..." and "LeBron is better than Kobe BECAUSE..." that you people subject yourself to is utterly pathetic. If LeBron is a higher quality player than Kobe, it has nothing to do with Kobe's championship coaching staff versus LeBron's championship coaching staff. It's because LeBron impacted the game in more versatile ways, and has finally been able to attain a couple championships to support his career numbers.

You people need help.

[kennethgriffin]

kobes entire ( all time nba record ) 11 first team all nba career was spent with phil except for the last 2 years in which one season he had knee surgery and the other he had achilles surgery...

2005 he missed half the season with an injury
1997 and 1998 he wasnt even a starter

but forget these facts and just name any player with 5+ rings that didnt have a great coach for most of their career


why? because success goes hand in hand... every great player had a great coach cause for every ring jordan or kobe won... phil got one handed to him for sitting on the bench not calling timeouts and just telling them to do whatever they wanted while tex winter actually invented the offense that phil took credit for

[kennethgriffin]

phil minus kobe/shaq/jordan/pippen/rodman/tex winter = 0 rings

kobe can still perform at an all nba 1st team level without phil... kobe can perform at the highest level with any coach..

but phil cant coach at the highest level with just anyone. he never took on a challenge to rebuild or turn anything average or raw into something great.

jordan was already one of the best players when phil took over

shaq was already one of the best players when phil took over

then during his 2nd tour with LA kobe was already the leagues best player


coaching in the nba is overrated when its a team than relies so heavily on 1 or 2 guys that dont even listen to anything their coach says

[DFish24]

But what was Lebron without two all-stars?

[christian1923]

Who cares lol

[Mr. Jabbar]

this backfired quicker than i thought

[T_L_P]

2005 he missed half the season with an injury
[/B]

He missed 16 games, hardly half the season :oldlol:

[Derka]

Jordan didn't make it to a Finals birth without Phil, Shaq needed Phil and another top 5 coach of all time Riley to get his rings, Duncan had another top 5 coach of all time in Pop.

What are you insinuating? That a player like Bron has been able to win a title without a mind like Phil? Do you think Bron and Spo win a title if anyone one of Wade/Bosh are not also on that roster?

The infinite loop of "Kobe is better than LeBron BECAUSE..." and "LeBron is better than Kobe BECAUSE..." that you people subject yourself to is utterly pathetic. If LeBron is a higher quality player than Kobe, it has nothing to do with Kobe's championship coaching staff versus LeBron's championship coaching staff. It's because LeBron impacted the game in more versatile ways, and has finally been able to attain a couple championships to support his career numbers.

You people need help.

You won the forum. All the forum. :bowdown:

[DaOldLion]

Jackson stated many times that the ONLY reason he came back to the Lakers was so he could coach the best player in the world..

w/o Kobe being the BITW at the time, Jackson never comes back. Kobe's greatness drew Jackson in.

[ArbitraryWater]

But what was Lebron without two all-stars?

A two time MVP under Mike Brown :bowdown:

Two more times the league's best record :bowdown:

[gts]

I found my pen*s

:wtf:

[20Four]

A two time MVP under Mike Brown :bowdown:

Two more times the league's best record :bowdown:


But...how many championships before joining wade and bosh?

[MVBallin2K]

But...how many championships before joining wade and bosh?


Exactly, if Kobe had players the caliber on Wade and Bosh on his team, he'd have won at least a ring with Spo :oldlol: .

Kobe's tenure with Phil spanned pretty much his entire career and Lebron never won a chip with Mike Brown so the argument is pretty much moot given that neither of them were able to go all the way with him. Blaming Kobe for last year is dumb too, if it weren't FOR Kobe, the Lakers wouldn't have even been in the Playoffs. When he went down with that injury, the team (Kobe didn't even play) were swept.


At least Kobe having Shaq and Gasol is a valid argument...though I guess Lebron fans cooled off that one when he has Wade and Bosh and Ray Allen to bail him out (funny, isn't that what Lakers haters say that Derek Fisher's role was for Kobe too?).

[DFish24]

A two time MVP under Mike Brown :bowdown:

Two more times the league's best record :bowdown:

And still couldn't get past a Dwight Howard led team with HCA:roll:

[T_L_P]

Exactly, if Kobe had players the caliber on Wade and Bosh on his team, he'd have won at least a ring with Spo :oldlol: .

Kobe's tenure with Phil spanned pretty much his entire career and Lebron never won a chip with Mike Brown so the argument is pretty much moot given that neither of them were able to go all the way with him. Blaming Kobe for last year is dumb too, if it weren't FOR Kobe, the Lakers wouldn't have even been in the Playoffs. When he went down with that injury, the team (Kobe didn't even play) were swept.


At least Kobe having Shaq and Gasol is a valid argument...though I guess Lebron fans cooled off that one when he has Wade and Bosh and Ray Allen to bail him out (funny, isn't that what Lakers haters say that Derek Fisher's role was for Kobe too?).

There's a legit argument that the Lakers would have done better without Kobe messing up the system last season.

[coin24]

OPs life without all his alts trolling on ISH

[SexSymbol]

Phil with kobe - 11 rings
Phil without kobe - 6 rings
You see the difference?

[Inferno]

I'm pretty sure Phil Jackson taught him how to play. Kobe didn't even know how to properly dribble until Jackson gave him a couple sessions. I could have won a title with peak Shaq so nothing Kobe does with him counts. Basically, I just hate Kobe.

:lol

[JT123]

Exactly, if Kobe had players the caliber on Wade and Bosh on his team, he'd have won at least a ring with Spo :oldlol: .

Kobe's tenure with Phil spanned pretty much his entire career and Lebron never won a chip with Mike Brown so the argument is pretty much moot given that neither of them were able to go all the way with him. Blaming Kobe for last year is dumb too, if it weren't FOR Kobe, the Lakers wouldn't have even been in the Playoffs. When he went down with that injury, the team (Kobe didn't even play) were swept.


At least Kobe having Shaq and Gasol is a valid argument...though I guess Lebron fans cooled off that one when he has Wade and Bosh and Ray Allen to bail him out (funny, isn't that what Lakers haters say that Derek Fisher's role was for Kobe too?).
Lebron made Mike Brown coach of the year, while Kobe got him fired 5 games into a season. Big difference.
We have seen nothing in Kobe's career to suggest that he is capable of winning a ring with an average coach like Spo. Kobe has never even come close to sniffing the Finals without Phil Jackson! As for last year, the refs were more responsible for the Lakers making the playoffs than Kobe was. Look no further than the game he got injured for proof. A 50-16 edge in free throw attempts! :facepalm

[necya]

Jackson stated many times that the ONLY reason he came back to the Lakers was so he could coach the best player in the world..

w/o Kobe being the BITW at the time, Jackson never comes back. Kobe's greatness drew Jackson in.

i think paycheck comes first :rolleyes:

[NumberSix]

Phil with kobe - 11 rings
Phil without kobe - 6 rings
You see the difference?
How many rings does he have without Ron Harper?

[I<3NBA]

please don't disrespect Spoelstra like that.

also, Jordan without Phil still went further in the playoffs than Kobe did without Phil.

[DaOldLion]

please don't disrespect Spoelstra like that.

also, Jordan without Phil still went further in the playoffs than Kobe did without Phil.

except that he didn't

[MadSolar]

please don't disrespect Spoelstra like that.

also, Jordan without Phil still went further in the playoffs than Kobe did without Phil.
Chicago Bulls in 1989 Lost in conference finals
Lakers lost in 1998 Conference finals, Del Harris was the coach

Both without Phil.

[Jameerthefear]

idk how u guys can be heat fans and insult ur coach like this

[retaxis]

Kobes got BPD, of course he isn't going to listen to anyone unless it was Phil (he thinks he is too good for other coaches).

[BlackVVaves]

lol you're retarded. Please make this argument. Exactly how was Bryant "messing" up the system. Please tell how losing a 27/6/6/57% TS SG would lead to a better record, especially given the ridiculous amount of injuries they suffered and Dwight still recovering from back surgery. ****ing moron. :oldlol:

Once more, this theory that Kobe was "holding back" Dwight has been proved to be quite unfounded. This is the comparison between a "still recovering" Dwight and a-nearly-2-years-removed-from-surgery-boasted-prior-to-the-season-as finally-healthy Dwight. One with a "selfish" Kobe, the other with a player that the same detractors that claimed Kobe was self-centered on the court last year stated was better than Kobe because of his playmaking ability and unselfishness - Harden. You'd think the numbers would significantly support that argument, right? No:

2012-2013: 17.1 PPG | 12.4 RPG | 1.4 APG | 58% FG
2013-2014: 18.1 PPG | 12.5 RPG | 1.7 APG | 57% FG


Dwight's numbers are virtually the same despite playing in a different system that is catered to him more than D'Antoni's offense was. Despite escaping the ego of Kobe, and playing with the much more unselfish Harden. Despite all the jargon many posters here spewed in efforts to degrade the great (offensive) season Kobe had.

Why hasn't Dwight gone on to illustrate his true dominance through the unshackling of the Kobe chains he had clasped on him last season?

:facepalm

[Illuminati]

idk how u guys can be heat fans and insult ur coach like this

Don't get it twisted, Spo is a good coach. But compared to Phil Jackson? Shit's not even close.

Mike Brown though, is just horrible.

[MVBallin2K]

Lebron made Mike Brown coach of the year, while Kobe got him fired 5 games into a season. Big difference.
We have seen nothing in Kobe's career to suggest that he is capable of winning a ring with an average coach like Spo. Kobe has never even come close to sniffing the Finals without Phil Jackson! As for last year, the refs were more responsible for the Lakers making the playoffs than Kobe was. Look no further than the game he got injured for proof. A 50-16 edge in free throw attempts! :facepalm

Kobe got him fired 5 games into the season? I wasn't aware that Kobe was the GM and let's be real, if he was, why didn't Phil come back? Obviously if what you're saying is true, Kobe would want Phil back...but he didn't come back. Kobe didn't get Mike Brown fired. The fact that Mike Brown had a bad record with a team featuring the starting line up he did, did. Not saying whether that was a good decision or bad decision, fair or not fair. It's straight up fact and as far as I know, there's no evidence that Kobe was the cause of that. I assure you, if that was legit, Kobe would have had D'Antoni fired long ago with the way this season has gone :oldlol: .

As for that last part, did you watch some of those games? You can argue refs helped but it was Kobe nailing shots to bring the team back after falling behind. It wasn't Dwight Howard, though he DID bring some good defense to the team in the clutch at times, I'm not delusional like others to deny that. If not for Kobe though basically playing heavy minutes and nailing some of those shots, refs wouldn't have been in the position to do that in the first place. Heck, Dwight had 22 FTs that game, so hack a Dwight took on some of those free throws. 50 FTs is deceiving when you take that into account.

[Audio One]

1) On the bench, couldn't crack the starting line-up under Del Harris. Backing up Eddie Jones.
2) Missed the playoffs under Rudy/Frank.
3) Made it to semi-finals under Mike Brown, but got demolished by OKC and also choked away a few games.
4) Finally, formed a superteam, Mike Brown fired, barely made the playoffs under D'Antoni and then got swept by Spurs.

Could you imagine if Kobe had Mike Brown and Erik Spoelstra for his career? He wouldn't even make the Finals let alone win a championship.

Discuss.

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/ray.jpg

[Illuminati]

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/ray.jpg
:oldlol:

[HoopsFanNumero1]

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/ray.jpg

:lol

[I<3NBA]

idk how u guys can be heat fans and insult ur coach like this

please don't disrespect Spoelstra like that.

what were you saying?

[MichaelCorleone]

His name in the all time ranking should include "Phil Jackson" in brackets.

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Bird
.
.
.
.
.
11. Kobe (Phil Jackson)

[riseagainst]

I'm pretty sure Phil Jackson taught him how to play. Kobe didn't even know how to properly dribble until Jackson gave him a couple sessions. I could have won a title with peak Shaq so nothing Kobe does with him counts. Basically, I just hate Kobe.
:lol

[moe94]

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/ray.jpg
:oldlol:

[Fresh Kid]

this backfired quicker than i thought
it sure did:oldlol:

[Fresh Kid]

Don't get it twisted, Spo is a good coach. But compared to Phil Jackson? Shit's not even close.

Mike Brown though, is just horrible.
lebron also have a super stacked team by tha way:rolleyes:

[nashwade]

Let's see. Phil jax takes the Bobcats to championship

[Doctor Rivers]

Once more, this theory that Kobe was "holding back" Dwight has been proved to be quite unfounded. This is the comparison between a "still recovering" Dwight and a-nearly-2-years-removed-from-surgery-boasted-prior-to-the-season-as finally-healthy Dwight. One with a "selfish" Kobe, the other with a player that the same detractors that claimed Kobe was self-centered on the court last year stated was better than Kobe because of his playmaking ability and unselfishness - Harden. You'd think the numbers would significantly support that argument, right? No:

2012-2013: 17.1 PPG | 12.4 RPG | 1.4 APG | 58% FG
2013-2014: 18.1 PPG | 12.5 RPG | 1.7 APG | 57% FG


Dwight's numbers are virtually the same despite playing in a different system that is catered to him more than D'Antoni's offense was. Despite escaping the ego of Kobe, and playing with the much more unselfish Harden. Despite all the jargon many posters here spewed in efforts to degrade the great (offensive) season Kobe had.

Why hasn't Dwight gone on to illustrate his true dominance through the unshackling of the Kobe chains he had clasped on him last season?

:facepalm

that extra point makes all the difference in the world

[Jasper]

1) On the bench, couldn't crack the starting line-up under Del Harris. Backing up Eddie Jones.
2) Missed the playoffs under Rudy/Frank.
3) Made it to semi-finals under Mike Brown, but got demolished by OKC and also choked away a few games.
4) Finally, formed a superteam, Mike Brown fired, barely made the playoffs under D'Antoni and then got swept by Spurs.

Could you imagine if Kobe had Mike Brown and Erik Spoelstra for his career? He wouldn't even make the Finals let alone win a championship.

Discuss.
Oscar Robertson ..... nothing until Larry Costello (HOF PG , all -time triple double leader)
*It wasn't Phil that made Kobe ,, it was Shaq as it was for Kareem to Oscar

[Yao Ming's Foot]

There's a legit argument that the Lakers would have done better without Kobe messing up the system last season.

As evidenced by how well they played in the postseason?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kobe's not a great leader. He rubbed a notoriously soft Dwight Howard the wrong way. If he understood his character, he would have adapted his leadership style to get more out of him. Dwight played like an un-motivated malcontent until Kobe went down with injury, and it became his team.

For the first half of the season Kobe tried too hard to score, tried too little to share the ball, and didn't play defense the entire season apart for a couple of stretches. It kills the motivation of teammates when you're taking shots left and right, critiquing their game, then not even playing team defense on the other end.

[oh the horror]

OP just stays embarrassing himself.

[Black and White]

Boring thread, :sleeping

[riseagainst]

Jordan didn't make it to a Finals birth without Phil, Shaq needed Phil and another top 5 coach of all time Riley to get his rings, Duncan had another top 5 coach of all time in Pop.

What are you insinuating? That a player like Bron has been able to win a title without a mind like Phil? Do you think Bron and Spo win a title if anyone one of Wade/Bosh are not also on that roster?

The infinite loop of "Kobe is better than LeBron BECAUSE..." and "LeBron is better than Kobe BECAUSE..." that you people subject yourself to is utterly pathetic. If LeBron is a higher quality player than Kobe, it has nothing to do with Kobe's championship coaching staff versus LeBron's championship coaching staff. It's because LeBron impacted the game in more versatile ways, and has finally been able to attain a couple championships to support his career numbers.

You people need help.

cawd dam....
OP getting destroyed in just a few posts.
straight ethered.

:roll:
:applause:

[Myth]

1) On the bench, couldn't crack the starting line-up under Del Harris. Backing up Eddie Jones.
2) Missed the playoffs under Rudy/Frank.
3) Made it to semi-finals under Mike Brown, but got demolished by OKC and also choked away a few games.
4) Finally, formed a superteam, Mike Brown fired, barely made the playoffs under D'Antoni and then got swept by Spurs.

Could you imagine if Kobe had Mike Brown and Erik Spoelstra for his career? He wouldn't even make the Finals let alone win a championship.

Discuss.

2nd round isn't the semi-finals. It is the Western Conference Semi-Finals.