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Meticode
02-02-2014, 12:50 AM
HOUSTON: The rumbles within the Cavaliers locker room have been growing louder for weeks. Players who initially didn’t want to talk about what is plaguing this team are beginning to open up, and most of the issues are pointing back to guards Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters, along with an unhappiness with Mike Brown and his staff.

“He’s acting like he doesn’t care,” one Cavs player said of Irving.

Many players in this story were granted anonymity based on the sensitive nature of the topic.

All of this comes on the heels of a New York Daily News story released Saturday evening reporting that Luol Deng has complained of a locker room out of control. Players within that locker room are growing louder in their agreement.

“It’s pretty much a mess,” one source close to the team said.

Most of the complaints are focused on Irving and Waiters. One league source, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed Waiters was removed from practice recently, per the Daily News report. But Waiters’ minutes weren’t affected by the move, which left at least a handful of players raising their eyebrows — particularly within an organization that has preached accountability since Brown’s arrival.

“That’s Dion. He’s been like that since he got here. He doesn’t think anything is his fault,” one team source said. “He’s actually better about it this year than he was last year.”
In the Daily News report, a source close to Deng said, “The stuff going on in practice would never be tolerated by the coaching staff or the front office back in Chicago. It’s a mess.”
Players have privately complained that Brown’s coaching staff, with at least seven assistants, is too big. An assistant coach will tell a player one thing, then Brown will come back and yell at that player because he wants it done another way.

“We’re getting too many mixed messages,” one player said. “This isn’t very much fun. We were losing last year with Byron, but at least we were having fun.”

Deng said Friday he didn’t believe anyone had given up on Brown as their coach.
“I just think we’re not playing as a unit,” Deng said Friday. “We’re a young team and right now we don’t know how to make each other better.
“When you play as a unit, you cover for a lot of things. When one guy is unhappy with somebody, when you’re out there together as five, no one would talk about this stuff. But right now, since we’re not a unit, you always go for the head of the snake. It’s unfortunate that guys will start talking about the coach and everything. But

I’m new here, so they might feel a different way.”
Deng and Waiters were not available before Saturday’s game against the Houston Rockets. Deng typically doesn’t talk before games, and Waiters spent the whole time reporters are allowed in the locker room sitting in the trainer’s room.
Irving denied there are internal problems.

“The chemistry is great,” Irving said before Saturday’s game. “There’s nothing going on within the locker room that needs to be shared with the media.”

Brown shuffled his starting lineup Saturday, inserting Jarrett Jack in place of C.J. Miles with the idea of putting the ball in Jack’s hands more and letting Irving play off the ball.
Asked if that was to prevent Irving from trying to play 1-on-4 so much, one player nodded his head in agreement.

Two sources close to the team confirmed that barring a significant turnaround before the trade deadline, this roster will likely face some upheaval. That very well could include Waiters, whose act has worn thin on his teammates and various members of the organization.

Irving’s behavior has also irritated teammates and other members of the organization, but the Cavs are expected to offer him a max contract extension this summer and aren’t believed to be considering trading him. Two general managers told the Beacon Journal this year that Irving is pouting, something he denied to the Beacon Journal after practice Friday.

“I’ve never been known for pouting,” Irving said. “Just because I don’t smile on the court when we’re losing, I don’t think I’m supposed to smile. You smile on the court, that’s a problem, especially when you’re losing like this.”

It was a turbulent week for the Cavaliers and specifically Irving. ESPN reported Wednesday that Irving wants out of Cleveland, something he denied, while the Daily News reported he is close to firing his agent, Jeff Wechsler.

“I can tell you that’s 1,000 percent false,” Irving said Saturday. “I love my agent. He’s made me a lot of money these past few years. I’m 150,000 percent sure on that.”
No one would confirm the Daily News report that a handful of players were out late in New York City on Wednesday, the night before the Cavs’ embarrassing loss to the Knicks. Brown wouldn’t discuss whether he kicked Waiters out of practice, and when asked if he believes he still has a firm grip on this team, Brown said only, “Yes.”

Deng raved about the Cavs’ amenities on Friday, telling the Beacon Journal “these guys have everything.

They’re getting taken care of. Sometimes when you’ve only been in one place, you don’t know what it’s like. Honestly, it’s top-notch here. I’m not just saying that to say it. I feel like we’re given the best, we’re taken care of to perform at our best. We have to somehow figure out what our best is. For us right now to win as a young team, more than anything it’s a unity thing. We have to play as one unit. Are we going to get there? I don’t know, but we need to.”

Deng also believes the role of veterans is important and cited P.J. Brown as an example. P.J. Brown was a veteran on the Bulls when Deng was coming into the league, and while he was never a star, he was a tough veteran who cared about winning.
The Cavs have had a few veterans during this rebuilding process, such as Antawn Jamison, Anthony Parker, Anderson Varejao and Daniel Gibson, but none of them was considered a strong locker room influence. Then the Cavs began this season with the league’s second-youngest roster.

“What goes on in the locker room and what’s being said, it’s a lot more important than just having a bunch of young guys,” Deng said. “It’s great to have young guys, you need some vets in the locker room and it can’t just be one or two. You need a few to repeat it and guys to look across and see guys that have done it.”
Then Deng, unprovoked, said he believed the Cavs will get back to winning — a surprising comment given how he was portrayed in the Daily News report.
“Cleveland is going to win. I really believe that,” Deng said.
“I’m not surprised they went to the Finals before. It’s going to happen again, I really believe it.”

http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/jason-lloyd-quiet-grumbling-turns-into-dissension-in-troubled-cavs-locker-room-1.463491

navy
02-02-2014, 12:54 AM
When is Kyrie going to the Miami heat?

Im so nba'd out
02-02-2014, 01:01 AM
Everytime i watch the cavs waiters is the one going 1 on 4. He goes and jumps in the paint looking for fouls and never finishes around the basket.The only thing worst than a ball hog is player who thinks he's better than he really is thats the worst type of player.That is what waiters is he thinks he's the best player on the team and HE'S NOT

All Net
02-02-2014, 01:07 AM
Sucks for Cavs fans to hear this..

BrownEye007
02-02-2014, 01:10 AM
Everytime i watch the cavs waiters is the one going 1 on 4. He goes and jumps in the paint looking for fouls and never finishes around the basket.The only thing worst than a ball hog is player who thinks he's better than he really is thats the worst type of player.That is what waiters is he thinks he's the best player on the team and HE'S NOT
He's pretty inconsistent but Waiters is a total beast like every other game.

Byobob
02-02-2014, 01:12 AM
He's pretty inconsistent but Waiters is a total beast like every other game.


Its been a steady downhill for the Cavs since Lebron screwed them. :lol :lol

kamil
02-02-2014, 01:14 AM
Its been a steady downhill for the Cavs since Lebron screwed them. :lol :lol

LeCurse!

Lakers_Kobe_Fan
02-02-2014, 01:30 AM
Owner is retard...Bad Karma B!tch for the CP3 trade to the lakers

GM who doesn't like to take risk...Bynum last yr + Gasol this yr...deng is a 3rd wheel on championship team but doesn't do anything for a team like cave. he is not signing long term either

Coach: pathetic coach shouldn't be in the league. we all know that. don't know why they hired him...worst gave him 5 years i think

whats your expectation when all top 3 guys are incompetent??

Lebron23
02-02-2014, 01:33 AM
Lebron should have won the NBA Coach of the Year when the Cavs won 66 games. He was the only reason why the Cavs were a contending team. Just look at Brown's stint in LA and with Irving's Cavs. The guy is just a terrible coach.

oarabbus
02-02-2014, 03:06 AM
“The chemistry is great,” Irving said before Saturday’s game. “There’s nothing going on within the locker room that needs to be shared with the media.”

:lol :lol

MichaelCorleone
02-02-2014, 03:13 AM
Kyrie Irving is the next Gilbert Arenas.

B-Easy8
02-02-2014, 06:25 AM
When you draft 2 shoot first guards who don't play D and a couple of crappy PF's with top 5 picks you're destined for failure.

Fresh Kid
02-02-2014, 06:39 AM
I blame lebron for this:coleman:

MichaelCorleone
02-02-2014, 06:41 AM
I blame lebron for this:coleman:
Sure you do Knicks fan.:oldlol:

Fresh Kid
02-02-2014, 06:43 AM
Sure you do Knicks fan.:oldlol:
it relly iz his fault tho.

MichaelCorleone
02-02-2014, 06:45 AM
it relly iz his fault tho.
Sure it is.:rolleyes:

BlazerRed
02-02-2014, 06:47 AM
Cavs are a complete mess. Feels like they're going to implode from all the talk coming out of the locker room lately.

chips93
02-02-2014, 06:52 AM
Sucks for Cavs fans to hear this..


im not upset about it. hopefully this can spur on some meaningful change, be it a trade, or whatever.

BlazerRed
02-02-2014, 07:13 AM
Agreed, this is actually kind of good news. The Cavs need a complete change. This team isn't going anywhere. They've ****ed up all their picks, these guys aren't going to grow into a contender. They just aren't good enough. They need to shake it up completely.

Nick Young
02-02-2014, 07:45 AM
From top to bottom, what a garbagecan of an organization, perfectly representative of its city.


Kyrie needs to GTFO out of there, LAL can max him out, come to the promised land uncle drew!

BlackVVaves
02-02-2014, 10:38 AM
I can't remember who, but an adamant Cavs fan was deliberating on ISH a few weeks ago on how great Kyrie had been for a stretch, and that he was indeed the best point guard in the East.

I just passed over his numbers. He's averaging 22 and 6 on 41.7% from the field. He's a scoring point guard, who isn't scoring much and doing it at a role player efficiency. Now, the chatter of his inability to be a leader is growing, and cited as one of the problems with the underwhelming Cavs. The other problem being Irving's affinity for going ISO ball 70% of the time. Why the **** did fans vote him into the ASG? :facepalm

The Cavs are the NBA equivalent to the Browns. Just mass dysfunction, a losing environment, and no true direction. You'd think they resided in the same city.

Oh wait....

BlazerRed
02-02-2014, 10:40 AM
I can't remember who, but an adamant Cavs fan was deliberating on ISH a few weeks ago on how great Kyrie had been for a stretch, and that he was indeed the best point guard in the East.

I just passed over his numbers. He's averaging 22 and 6 on 41.7% from the field. He's a scoring point guard, who isn't scoring much and doing it at a role player efficiency. Now, the chatter of his inability to be a leader is growing, and cited as one of the problems with the underwhelming Cavs. The other problem being Irving's affinity for going ISO ball 70% of the time. Why the **** did fans vote him into the ASG? :facepalm

The Cavs are the NBA equivalent to the Browns. Just mass dysfunction, a losing environment, and no true direction. You'd think they resided in the same city.

Oh wait....

Because he's flashy and did a viral video.

DukeDelonte13
02-02-2014, 11:03 AM
I can't remember who, but an adamant Cavs fan was deliberating on ISH a few weeks ago on how great Kyrie had been for a stretch, and that he was indeed the best point guard in the East.

I just passed over his numbers. He's averaging 22 and 6 on 41.7% from the field. He's a scoring point guard, who isn't scoring much and doing it at a role player efficiency. Now, the chatter of his inability to be a leader is growing, and cited as one of the problems with the underwhelming Cavs. The other problem being Irving's affinity for going ISO ball 70% of the time. Why the **** did fans vote him into the ASG? :facepalm

The Cavs are the NBA equivalent to the Browns. Just mass dysfunction, a losing environment, and no true direction. You'd think they resided in the same city.

Oh wait....


No way... The cavs are nowhere near the browns when it comes to ineptitude. The Browns consistently suck because they just have to change coaches every 2 seasons. Zero stability. That is exactly what I don't want to have happen to the cavs.


But this is somewhat devastating news for me as a cavs fan. :(

I hate to say it, I really do, but one of Dion or Kyrie probably needs to go. I've been a defender of Mike Brown for a long time but if he can't get control of this situation he gets a major part of the blame.

If I were Dan Gilbert i'd be tempted to pull the plug MB and eat that contract. He can't control Kyrie/Dion's ego. The flipside is that you bring in a coach like Lionel Hollins and I don't know if you get any sort of better result; he seems like a much tougher hard-ass of a coach but will that really be a solution to the disfunction? I have no idea.


These are the darkest days in Cavs fandom since the Decision.

RidonKs
02-02-2014, 11:18 AM
deng speaking wisdom there, great quotes. honest and positive.

i'm still hoping this culture problem which clearly isn't a media fabrication like irving wants to portray is really a product of immaturity and inexperience. you either need a strong personality, in a coach or a vet, to overcome that... or you just need time. they were unlucky with a few signings that seemed to go in the right direction during the summer. jack and clark aren't fitting in. bennett looks like he's 15 y/o out there. bynum was obviously fools gold and his quick departure engendered more pessimism. glass half full, call it misfortune/miscalculations on behalf of management and just part of the rebuilding journey.

going into the future, there is still a reasonable core there. irving and thompson show great chemistry. varajao will hopefully do his thing for several more years. zeller keeps getting better. they appear to keep losing which is clearly for the best at this point. a decent pick next year and the right signing, along with them growing as a team... i still have faith that they become a consistent mid-level playoff team down the road.

RidonKs
02-02-2014, 11:22 AM
If I were Dan Gilbert i'd be tempted to pull the plug MB and eat that contract. He can't control Kyrie/Dion's ego. The flipside is that you bring in a coach like Lionel Hollins and I don't know if you get any sort of better result; he seems like a much tougher hard-ass of a coach but will that really be a solution to the disfunction? I have no idea.
this would be a serious mistake imo. this year has been written off. so whats the point of a major upheaval -- like firing the coach and bringing in their third in under a year? you clearly aren't going to turn the ship around, and you run the serious risk of undermining whatever minor gains have been achieved this year, whether its a slightly more concerted effort on defense, general relationship building, or w/e. stuff like that might be hard to see on the court but whenever a young crew is running together, they're progressing in each of their own individual ways.

perhaps a hardass is what they need in the future. but now isn't the time.

chocolatethunder
02-02-2014, 11:51 AM
Kyrie Irving is the next Gilbert Arenas.
I'm no arenas fan but he wishes he could be that.

BlackVVaves
02-02-2014, 12:01 PM
No way... The cavs are nowhere near the browns when it comes to ineptitude. The Browns consistently suck because they just have to change coaches every 2 seasons. Zero stability. That is exactly what I don't want to have happen to the cavs.


But this is somewhat devastating news for me as a cavs fan. :(

I hate to say it, I really do, but one of Dion or Kyrie probably needs to go. I've been a defender of Mike Brown for a long time but if he can't get control of this situation he gets a major part of the blame.

If I were Dan Gilbert i'd be tempted to pull the plug MB and eat that contract. He can't control Kyrie/Dion's ego. The flipside is that you bring in a coach like Lionel Hollins and I don't know if you get any sort of better result; he seems like a much tougher hard-ass of a coach but will that really be a solution to the disfunction? I have no idea.


These are the darkest days in Cavs fandom since the Decision.

I admit my post featured some subtle hyperbole, but I do think that the incohesion that exists within the Browns and Cavs organizations are comparable - but, you're right in saying that the instability at arguably the two most important roles for a team (QB and head coach) is nearly unrivaled in sports. The incompetence of Lombardi is frightening.

I feel for you guys, I really do. Like the anonymous source noted in the OP, although the losing persisted last year, at least the team was having fun and in high spirits, not showing any signs of dysfunction. Now its the polar opposite, and considering the hype the Cavs received from both NBA fans and the media based on their promise and development, it's a hard thing to watch.

Doesn't make much sense. Some posters like RBA have pointed to the team's youth and inexperience, but it still doesn't explain why the core of players that returned from last season are underperforming, both as a unit and as individuals. Add that to the influx of talent they required this off-season, and the fact that they play in the joke that is the Eastern Conference, and it's mind boggling how bad they have been.

I really don't know what the answer is. You can't say hey blow it up because, well, technically they are still on the blow-it-up plan from the Decision debacle. They are amidst a rebuild now, so do they just, re-rebuild? Do they fire their new/old coach? Trade their underwhelming franchise player? Get rid of their coveted piece in Waiters?

To me this is even more dumbfounding than the Nets' struggles. At least most saw their age and subsequent injuries as being a huge flaw that could derail their championship aspirations. With the Cavs, it's inexplicably confusing. Who could have accounted for Irving's numbers consistently worsening each NBA season thusfar, or them being so atrocious defensively despite Brown's pedigree as a defensive wiz?

Troubling times indeed. Part of me, as I'm sure with many, find no issue with the Cavs struggles as it just makes the douche that is Dan Gilbert look even more idiotic. But, the rational side of me knows Gilbert likely plays little role in player personnel, and feels bad for you Cleveland fans who are generally pretty cool cats.

Between the Browns and the Cavs history, how you all remain such committed fans is the 9th wonder of the world.

HomieWeMajor
02-02-2014, 12:03 PM
Most of the Cavs players are pissed off that the Cavs F.O saw 6'8 260 pounds on draft night and thought of Lebron

chips93
02-02-2014, 12:20 PM
I hate to say it, I really do, but one of Dion or Kyrie probably needs to go. I've been a defender of Mike Brown for a long time but if he can't get control of this situation he gets a major part of the blame.

If I were Dan Gilbert i'd be tempted to pull the plug MB and eat that contract. He can't control Kyrie/Dion's ego. The flipside is that you bring in a coach like Lionel Hollins and I don't know if you get any sort of better result; he seems like a much tougher hard-ass of a coach but will that really be a solution to the disfunction? I have no idea.


These are the darkest days in Cavs fandom since the Decision.

yeah, im starting to feel the same way. personally, i like dion more than kyrie. hes just a lot tougher, but kyrie is on another level, talent wise. so i think we have to hold onto kyrie, and assuming he signs the 4 year extension, we are able to turn things around in those 4 years, and build something close to a contender around him.

if we could move dion, maybe package him with some of your extra picks, and get a first rounder this year, tank this year, and add some young talent to the roster, ideally at center (andy isnt gonna be around forever) or small forward (deng is gone if these reports are correct).



the the big problem with the roster is that while its a young team, the ceiling still seems fairly low. i love tristan, but he's never gonna be an all-star. zeller has made some big strides this year, but again, his ceiling is still as a solid starter, nothing more.

and ontop of the low ceiling of this young crop of players, they obviously lack maturity.

thats a pretty awful combination :(



im hoping a trade comes soon to shake things up

chips93
02-02-2014, 12:21 PM
going into the future, there is still a reasonable core there. irving and thompson show great chemistry. varajao will hopefully do his thing for several more years. zeller keeps getting better. they appear to keep losing which is clearly for the best at this point. a decent pick next year and the right signing, along with them growing as a team... i still have faith that they become a consistent mid-level playoff team down the road.

really? i dont see it. one of the areas that tristan has dissapointed is that he still hasnt really developed into much of a threat out of the pick and roll. he has that signature push shot, but if your roll man is shooting the majority of his shots from outside the rim, he's just not going to be effective.

hes gotten stronger at finishing at the rim, but thats really just on offensive put backs. he still looks out of control catching the ball on the move, and having to make a quick decision.

HylianNightmare
02-02-2014, 12:38 PM
Hopefully a huge move in the works

DukeDelonte13
02-02-2014, 01:17 PM
Hopefully a huge move in the works



I would try and move Jack for a veteran pass first PG if possible.


Cavs should have paid livingston. Hindsight is 20/20.

Meticode
02-02-2014, 01:18 PM
All the hopes coming into the season and literally everything has been the polar opposite of what fans were expecting.

sfballa13
02-02-2014, 02:09 PM
Overrated star with an ego problem in Irving...CHECK

Delusional headcase in Waiters...CHECK

Wasted underperforming busts in Bennett, Thompson...CHECK

Pusssy of a coach that has no control and is also a moron in Brown...CHECK

I thought there was not one team in the NBA in a worse spot than the Pistons. Somehow, someway, the Cavs with 2 #1 overall picks, 2 #top 4 picks, in the past 5 years are worse.

One thing is holding both the Cavs and Pistons back...COACHING.

NBA superstars need bonafide babysitters and tough guys to reel them in. If they dont respect their coach forget it you will not get the production you are supposed to be getting. Give me Charlotte's coach or Boston's coach on either Cleveland or Detroit and you are looking at a top 5-6 team in the terrible East. Both teams have crazy amounts of talent that are not being utilized properly and crazy egos that are not being controlled properly.

For the sake of the NBA and these teams' fans hopefully the coaches (Mr. Potato Head and Moron Cheeks) and their stupid GMS (Grant and Dumars) are fired ASAP so some of the damage can be reversed

SamuraiSWISH
02-02-2014, 02:15 PM
Kyrie Irving to the Miami Heat? I'd buy it. Riley was courting him before.

Boarder Patrol
02-02-2014, 02:24 PM
Two #1 overall picks, two #4 overall picks, and $20 million in cap space turned into:

- Average PG (Irving)
- Average PF (Thompson)
- Scrub/bench SG (Waiters)
- Scrub SF (Bennett)
- Scrub SF #2 (Clark)
- Waaay overpaid PG ruined by Average PG (Jack)
- Bynum :roll:

No wonder.