2003 Timothy Theodore Duncan vs. 2012 LeBron Raymone James

[Lebron23]

http://www.tempo.com.ph/wp-content/uploads/Lebron-James-and-Tim-Duncan1.jpg

Tim Duncan was the last player to win the finals MVP and season MVP in the same NBA Season before Lebron won both of these Awards in 2012.

Tim Duncan

Regular Season

23.3 ppg on 51.3 FG$, 12.3 apg, 3.9 apg, 0.7 spg, 2.7 bpg.

Playoffs

24.7 ppg on 52.9 FG%, 15.4 rpg, 5.3 apg, 0.6 spg 3.3 bpg.

San Antonio beat the Suns, Lakers, Mavericks and the Nets in the Playoffs.


LeBron James


Regular Season

27.1 ppg on 53.1 FG%, 7.9 rpg, 6.2 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg


Playoffs

30.3 ppg on 50 FG%, 9.7 rpg, 5.6 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.7 bpg

Miami Beat the Knicks, The Pacers, The Celtics, and The thunder in the playoffs.

[T_L_P]

Duncan wins this one, only marginally in the Regular Season but considerably in the Playoffs.

He had a pretty mediocre cast -- the Spurs were still a partly rebuilding team; 3% of the GMs predicted the Spurs to win the title in 2003, whereas 75% of them predicted the Heat to win in 2012 -- and he took them to glory.

He anchored both the offense and the defense, and, dare I say it, he received more attention on and off the ball than LeBron did, because LeBron had Wade/Bosh on his team.

[ripthekik]

Duncan never left his team even in a small market
Duncan never had 2 all stars in his championship teams (it was either Robinson, Parker or Ginobilli, only 1 of them)
He always put the team on his shoulders year in year out, never choke in an entire series or quit on his team.

Duncan all day everyday.

[MichaelCorleone]

Duncan never left his team even in a small market
Duncan never had 2 all stars in his championship teams (it was either Robinson, Parker or Ginobilli, only 1 of them)
He always put the team on his shoulders year in year out, never choke in an entire series or quit on his team.

Duncan all day everyday.
Yup Duncan over Kobe in the all time list.

Does that suit your agenda?:confusedshrug:

[riseagainst]

Yup Duncan over Kobe in the all time list.

Does that suit your agenda?:confusedshrug:

sure. So Duncan > Kobe> Lebron. Does that suit your agenda?
:confusedshrug:

[MichaelCorleone]

sure. So Duncan > Kobe> Lebron. Does that suit your agenda?
:confusedshrug:
When did I say Lebron is below Kobe?:confusedshrug:

When all is said and done, the FACT will be:

Lebron > Duncan >> Kobe

[oarabbus]

When did I say Lebron is below Kobe?:confusedshrug:

When all is said and done, the FACT will be:

Lebron > Duncan >> Kobe


Oh, so you can see into the future. Good for you.

[DonDadda59]

Timmy to Raymone- "You ain't shit without your homeboys" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu2k00p3r7g)

True Story. :applause:

[MichaelCorleone]

Oh, so you can see into the future. Good for you.
Actually the future is here.

Lebron = Duncan > Kobe

After Lebron's 3rd/4th ring and FMVP, he'll move into the top 3 all time group.

[rmt]

Look at each player's 2nd, 3rd and 4th options:

2003 Spurs Playoffs

Parker 14.7 pts / 2.8 rebs / 3.5 assts 40.3%FG
SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 rebs / 2.7 assts 41.4%
Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 rebs / 2.9 assts 38.6%

2012 Heat Playoffs

Wade 22.8 pts / 5.2 rebs / 4.3 assts / 1.7 stl / 1.3 blks 46.2%
Bosh 14 pts / 7.8 rebs 49.3%
Chalmers 11.3 pts / 3.9 assts 44.2%

[Inferno]

Look at each player's 2nd, 3rd and 4th options:

2003 Spurs Playoffs

Parker 14.7 pts / 2.8 rebs / 3.5 assts 40.3%FG
SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 rebs / 2.7 assts 41.4%
Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 rebs / 2.9 assts 38.6%

2012 Heat Playoffs

Wade 22.8 pts / 5.2 rebs / 4.3 assts / 1.7 stl / 1.3 blks 46.2%
Bosh 14 pts / 7.8 rebs 49.3%
Chalmers 11.3 pts / 3.9 assts 44.2%

Timmy :applause:

[KyleKong]

Duncan never left his team even in a small market
Duncan never had 2 all stars in his championship teams (it was either Robinson, Parker or Ginobilli, only 1 of them)
He always put the team on his shoulders year in year out, never choke in an entire series or quit on his team.

Duncan all day everyday.

1. Duncan was drafted to a Championship caliber team, why would he leave?

2. That's why Robinsoin, Parker, and Ginbolli were All-Stars during the Spurs title runs, right?

3. Never choked?

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818167/duncanmiss.gif

"Duncan misses from point blank range...he's made that shot a million times."

[rmt]

1. Duncan was drafted to a Championship caliber team, why would he leave?

2. That's why Robinsoin, Parker, and Ginbolli were All-Stars during the Spurs title runs, right?

3. Never choked?

"Duncan misses from point blank range...he's made that shot a million times."

DRob was not an all-star in either 99 or 03. There was no other all-star (except Duncan) in either 99 or 03. Only Manu was an all-star in 05 and only Parker was an all-star in 07. Duncan won all 4 titles without any all-nba team mates.

Maybe you'd be tired too after playing 43:10 (2nd highest after 21 year old Leonard) at age 37. How many 37 years olds would be performing (24 pts / 12 rebs) at that level in the NBA Finals?

[T_L_P]

DRob was not an all-star in either 99 or 03. There was no other all-star (except Duncan) in either 99 or 03. Only Manu was an all-star in 05 and only Parker was an all-star in 07. Duncan won all 4 titles without any all-nba team mates.

Maybe you'd be tired too after playing 43:10 (2nd highest after 21 year old Leonard) at age 37. How many 37 years olds would be performing (24 pts / 12 rebs) at that level in the NBA Finals?

He clearly doesn't understand the concept of choking :facepalm

Choking is having 10 points on 3-12 shooting (Parker). Choking is having 8 points on 3-11 shooting (LeBron). Choking is not missing one shot :oldlol:

[T_L_P]

1. Duncan was drafted to a Championship caliber team, why would he leave?

He was drafted to a championship caliber team, yes, but he could have easily of left when they weren't (2000-2003).

[TheMarkMadsen]

looks like they are about to embrace in a sensual meeting of the lips in that picture

GOAT kiss?

[Sarcastic]

Lebron needs to win a title without Dwyane Wade, otherwise it will hang over him for the rest of his career.

[Leftimage]

Duncan never left his team even in a small market
Duncan never had 2 all stars in his championship teams (it was either Robinson, Parker or Ginobilli, only 1 of them)
He always put the team on his shoulders year in year out, never choke in an entire series or quit on his team.

Duncan all day everyday.

Poor Duncan had to settle for Popovich as a coach and the admiral as a tutor & frontcourt partner :cry: :cry:

What a sad start to a career ! If only he'd been surrounded with young talent like Lebron.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/LeBron-Mo-Delonte.jpg

[rmt]

Poor Duncan had to settle for Popovich as a coach and the admiral as a tutor & frontcourt partner :cry: :cry:

What a sad start to a career ! If only he'd been surrounded with young talent like Lebron.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/LeBron-Mo-Delonte.jpg

Popovich had a 73-73 NBA record before their 99 championship run - not exactly GOAT material.

Do you mean young talent like Mo and Delonte? So what do you call Parker (2nd year), SJax (2nd year) and Manu (rookie) in 2003?

[r0drig0lac]

Look at each player's 2nd, 3rd and 4th options:

2003 Spurs Playoffs

Parker 14.7 pts / 2.8 rebs / 3.5 assts 40.3%FG
SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 rebs / 2.7 assts 41.4%
Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 rebs / 2.9 assts 38.6%

2012 Heat Playoffs

Wade 22.8 pts / 5.2 rebs / 4.3 assts / 1.7 stl / 1.3 blks 46.2%
Bosh 14 pts / 7.8 rebs 49.3%
Chalmers 11.3 pts / 3.9 assts 44.2%
/thread
with a duncan 2003, spurs would have swept Miami last season

[rmt]

r0drig0lac, are my eyes deceiving me or shouldn't Parker in your avatar have a #9?

[Fresh Kid]

03 Tim duncan won fair and square. end of tha damn thread/

[ripthekik]

1. Duncan was drafted to a Championship caliber team, why would he leave?

2. That's why Robinsoin, Parker, and Ginbolli were All-Stars during the Spurs title runs, right?

3. Never choked?

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818167/duncanmiss.gif

"Duncan misses from point blank range...he's made that shot a million times."
dumbass.. in all his championship teams he never had more than 2 all stars at once. Check the facts. Lebron is the only guy who needed 2.

Choking one shot is different from choking an entire series. If one shot is considered a choke, we can make a 3 movie epic series of lebron choking

[La Frescobaldi]

Duncan plays basketball like a man. James flopped his way to a Finals.

That said, Duncan should have dealt some severe body blows to his own teammate at times for disrespecting the game.

[HomieWeMajor]

Duncan
He won in the baggy clothes era

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Look at each player's 2nd, 3rd and 4th options:

2003 Spurs Playoffs

Parker 14.7 pts / 2.8 rebs / 3.5 assts 40.3%FG
SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 rebs / 2.7 assts 41.4%
Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 rebs / 2.9 assts 38.6%

2012 Heat Playoffs

Wade 22.8 pts / 5.2 rebs / 4.3 assts / 1.7 stl / 1.3 blks 46.2%
Bosh 14 pts / 7.8 rebs 49.3%
Chalmers 11.3 pts / 3.9 assts 44.2%

That's a misleading way to look at it. Both Wade and Bosh had worse stats in 2013 but I doubt anybody would say Lebron had a better run that season than 2012.

[rmt]

That's a misleading way to look at it. Both Wade and Bosh had worse stats in 2013 but I doubt anybody would say Lebron had a better run that season than 2012.

What's misleading about it? I'm using the years that the OP used. I'm not the one to choose the year.

[Dbrog]

Duncan basically singlehandedly dethroned the 3-peat Lakers. This is one of the most illustrious seasons in NBA history. There is no contest.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

What's misleading about it? I'm using the years that the OP used. I'm not the one to choose the year.

It's better to just compare Lebron's and Duncan's stats head on instead of using their 2nd and 3rd option's stats to determine who had a better run. It's just more accurate. Like I said, if you did the same comparison between '12 and '13 Lebron, you'll see Lebron's teammates played worse in '13 but that doesn't mean he had a better run.

[Dbrog]

Also, as far as Duncan choking, well he hasn't had many shots to beat the buzzer cause his defense leaves teams too far behind to come down to a last second shot. Still though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Q7i1gz9ks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR7Z1Pq2s5I

I'm not even going to bother listing his stats in closeout games.

[NumberSix]

You should probably only have non-agenda posters giving their answers.

[Im Still Ballin]

Just because your teammates are named All-stars in February doesn't mean they play like all-stars in the playoffs.

Bosh was injured for a large chunk and Wade was questionable and inconsistent. Outside of the big three there was not much else, chalmers, a couple under sized rebounders, an erratic rookie pg and a couple 3 and d players.

The spurs may have not a contributer like Wade, but they sure had a lot more middle order players around the 6-10 point mark, also a much more balanced and potent supporting cast.

Not to take anything away from Duncan, it's very close but i put LBJ's 2011-2012 over Duncans because of the context in which he succeeded. Coming off so much hype and ultimately failure the year before, the Heat and LBJ were the most hated in US sports arguably at the time, and for good reason obviously.

Every time that season when the heat were on the edge, LBJ brought them back. Pacers series; bosh goes down, wade falters, they fall behind 2-1, the all crucial game 4, either 3-1 or evening it up, James (and Wade) answered the critics and won the series. Then the Boston series; 2 games up, lose 3 straight, can you imagine the pressure on the heat, let alone James. We know what happened next. Context matters people, Duncan sure didn't have the pressure that LBJ had.

[RichieW]

Duncan had a worse supporting cast AND had to go through an all time great, three time defending champion Lakers team with Shaq/Kobe.

Timmy in 2003 is more impressive, and it isn't even close.

Having said that if Horry hits the 3 to win it in Game 5 then Lakers probably 4-peat that year. Takes a lot of luck to win a championship, no matter how great the individual players are.

[SuperPippen]

You should probably only have non-agenda posters giving their answers.


So you would definitely be excluded.

[davehos]

Duncan
He won in the baggy clothes era

The baggy clothes era never ended for Duncan.

To troll who said Duncan choked last year ... no, not even close. Ginobili and the 3 point shooters cooling off is what did in the Spurs. Too many turnovers and I wonder if Ginobili had some sort of "undisclosed" injury or drama going on.

He would pass the ball to people who were not there? The turnovers killed the Spurs and they weren't caused by Miami D.

[sportjames23]

So you would definitely be excluded.


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Lord Bean]

I'll have to pick Duncan for this one.

2012 Lebron was one of the best players in the league at the time. 2003 Duncan was one of the best players of all time.

No disrespect to Lebron. He's an all-star and one of the top players in the game today, but we have to give Duncan his credit.

[r0drig0lac]

r0drig0lac, are my eyes deceiving me or shouldn't Parker in your avatar have a #9?
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKiERPIMHoW89moeO7oDZktijjrq3Hf ul7u3sxROgmxuuZfG6p

it was made from that image, your eyes are deceiving you :lol

[J Shuttlesworth]

Look at each player's 2nd, 3rd and 4th options:

2003 Spurs Playoffs

Parker 14.7 pts / 2.8 rebs / 3.5 assts 40.3%FG
SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 rebs / 2.7 assts 41.4%
Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 rebs / 2.9 assts 38.6%

2012 Heat Playoffs

Wade 22.8 pts / 5.2 rebs / 4.3 assts / 1.7 stl / 1.3 blks 46.2%
Bosh 14 pts / 7.8 rebs 49.3%
Chalmers 11.3 pts / 3.9 assts 44.2%
Just curious... how does having a good 2nd/3rd option take away a players indiviual performance? Let's not forget Parker is an FMVP as well

[Bigsmoke]

The answer is LeBron.


Duncan played against easy teams in 03.

Suns
Lakers team that wasn't in championship form
Mavs without Dirk for half the series
49 win Nets

[Bigsmoke]

Just curious... how does having a good 2nd/3rd option take away a players indiviual performance? Let's not forget Parker is an FMVP as well
And Bosh wasn't there for the whole ride

[Big#50]

I don't even like Duncan but come on, shit isn't even close. Never will. 03 Duncan is like 2000 Shaq and and 95 Hakeem. No contest. Lebron is not on that level. Not one of his seasons is. **** off. I'm drunk. I just watched the Seahawks punk another group of men like it was nothing.

[tmacattack33]

Duncan wins this one, only marginally in the Regular Season but considerably in the Playoffs.

He had a pretty mediocre cast -- the Spurs were still a partly rebuilding team; 3% of the GMs predicted the Spurs to win the title in 2003, whereas 75% of them predicted the Heat to win in 2012 -- and he took them to glory.

He anchored both the offense and the defense, and, dare I say it, he received more attention on and off the ball than LeBron did, because LeBron had Wade/Bosh on his team.

Except Bosh was out of action for 2 rounds of the playoffs, and i don't think you can say he was at 80% (or even 70%) or above upon returning for the final round.

[Lebron23]

The answer is LeBron.


Duncan played against easy teams in 03.

Suns 42-40 (0.512)
Lakers team that wasn't in championship form 50-32 (.612)
Mavs without Dirk for half the series 60-22 (0.731)
49 win Nets 49-33 (0.597)

Miami beat better teams in the 2012 NBA Playoffs. The Knicks were 36-30 (.545), Indiana Pacers 42-24 (0.676), Boston Celtics 39-27 (0.590), and OKC Thunder 47-19 (0.721)

The 2003 Lakers only won 50 games. And they were very tired and lacked motivations after 3 straight trip to the NBA Finals, and Lakers 2 star players were having a feud during that time.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Just curious... how does having a good 2nd/3rd option take away a players indiviual performance? Let's not forget Parker is an FMVP as well

4 years after the year in question.

2003 Duncan wins this one.

[Lebron23]

Except Bosh was out of action for 2 rounds of the playoffs, and i don't think you can say he was at 80% (or even 70%) or above upon returning for the final round.


Bosh missed plenty of games in the playoffs. from round 1 up to the 2012 NBA Finals Lebron was the heat's best player, and most consistent playoffs performer.

[Lebron23]

And the Indiana Pacers (9th defensive team), Boston Celtics (no.1 defensive team), and even the New York Knicks (5th best defensive team) were top 10 defensive teams.

2003 Dirk Nowitzi was playing hurt, and he only played 3 games in the conference finals.

[Miller for 3]

Duncan's season actually occurred in an NBA regulated 82 games season. Lebron's came in a fantasy lockout year where they only played 66 games. Many high school teams could compete against NBA teams in only 66 games. Duncan>>>>>>>>>

Better question is like 1999 Sprewell vs. 12 Lebron (Sprewell played against handchecking so he is far superior, but still)

[Lebron23]

Duncan's season actually occurred in an NBA regulated 82 games season. Lebron's came in a fantasy lockout year where they only played 66 games. Many high school teams could compete against NBA teams in only 66 games. Duncan>>>>>>>>>

Better question is like 1999 Sprewell vs. 12 Lebron (Sprewell played against handchecking so he is far superior, but still)


You are really a joke. Duncan also won his first championship in a 50 games lock out season.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Miami beat better teams in the 2012 NBA Playoffs. The Knicks were 36-30 (.545), Indiana Pacers 42-24 (0.676), Boston Celtics 39-27 (0.590), and OKC Thunder 47-19 (0.721)

The 2003 Lakers only won 50 games. And they were very tired and lacked motivations after 3 straight trip to the NBA Finals, and Lakers 2 star players were having a feud during that time.

The 2003 Lakers would have slapped those teams around for fun.

Also, Duncan wasn't pushed to the brink by a team full of 90-year olds (2012 Celtics).

[redboy]

You are really a joke. Duncan also won his first championship in a 50 games lock out season.
you're talking about duncan's '03 season, not his 99 season

[Lebron23]

The 2003 Lakers would have slapped those teams around for fun.

Also, Duncan wasn't pushed to the brink by a team full of 90-year olds (2012 Celtics).


I think a healthy Miami team beat them in 7 games. Kobe and Shaq were having a team chemistry issues, and a 2012 Boston Celtics were the no.1 defensive team in the league. They would beat the 2003 Spurs, 2003 Nets, and the 2003 Lakers.

[Lebron23]

you're talking about duncan's '03 season, not his 99 season


That guy criticized Lebron's first NBA championship. Duncan was also a lockout champion. and Team Duncan only beat one good team in the NBA Finals. 2013 Spurs and 2012 Thunder > 2005 Pistons.

[kNicKz]

2012 Thunder > 2005 Pistons.

I just lost some of my IQ reading that

[ThePhantomCreep]

That guy criticized Lebron's first NBA championship. Duncan was also a lockout champion. and Team Duncan only beat one good team in the NBA Finals. 2013 Spurs and 2012 Thunder > 2005 Pistons.

Holy Homer, Batman! That Pistons team came one quarter short of repeating as champions.

[Lebron23]

The answer is LeBron.


Duncan played against easy teams in 03.

Suns
Lakers team that wasn't in championship form
Mavs without Dirk for half the series
49 win Nets

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2003/story?id=1558464

Dirk sprained his left ankle in game 3.
"The news is not good,'' Nelson said. "His knee is very sore. I don't expect he'll play and I'm not sure if he'll play in this series. We should not take a gamble or a chance on Dirk Nowitzki. I told Dirk he must feel he's totally 100 percent for me to play him again this series.''

The Mavericks lost the game 96-83 and trail in the series 2-1. Game 4 is Sunday night in Dallas.

[Lebron23]

I just lost some of my IQ reading that


2012 Thunder beat some quality teams in the 2012 NBA playoffs. They swept the defending NBA champion, beat the 2009 and 2010 champion in the 2nd round, and beat a very good spurs team in the conference finals.

The Heat match up pretty well with them, and they shut down Harden in the NBA Finals. Everybody was crowning them as NBA Champion after they beat the Heat in Game 1.

[Lebron23]

Holy Homer, Batman! That Pistons team came one quarter short of repeating as champions.


I think the 2012 Miami also would beat them in a best of 7 series. They 2012 Heat were a far better team than the 2005 Heat. A 22 yrs.old Wade, and 33 yrs.old Shaq losses to them in 7 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2005_ECF.html#DET-MIA

[Lebron23]

You guys always wants to discredit Lebron's accomplishments. The guy averaged 34 ppg on 53 FG%, and 12 rpg againt a 98.2 defensive team in the conference Finals.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2012_ECF.html

2012 Boston Celtics: Det Rtg: 98.2 (1st of 30)

2008 Boston Celtics: Def Rtg: 98.9 (1st of 30)

2010 Boston Celtics: Def Rtg: 103.8 (5th of 30)

2005 Detroit Pistons: Def Rtg: 101.2 (3rd of 30)

2003 San Antonio Spurs: Def Rtg: 99.7 (3rd of 29)

[ThePhantomCreep]

And yet the 2008 and 2010 Celtics were clearly superior. 2012 was a lockout year remember?

The quality of opposition was pretty even IMO, but James clearly had the better supporting cast. Edge: Duncan.

It's not like either took the '95 Rockets path the title.

[TMT]

Duncan never had star teammates to the extent of Lebron, and has twice as many rings as him. Oh the things Duncan would have done if he had D-Wade as a teammate. :eek:

[Lebron23]

Duncan never had star teammates to the extent of Lebron, and has twice as many rings as him. Oh the things Duncan would have done if he had D-Wade as a teammate. :eek:


Wade was no longer the same player in the 2013 NBA Season. I think he was still a good 2nd option in the 2012 NBA Season. Wade was playing hurt in the 2013 NBA Playoffs while Bosh was erratic and inconsistent. And a 37 yrs.old Duncan out played him in the finals.

[TMT]

Wade was no longer the same player in the 2013 NBA Season. I think he was still a good 2nd option in the 2012 NBA Season. Wade was playing hurt in the 2013 NBA Playoffs while Bosh was erratic and inconsistent. And a 37 yrs.old Duncan out played him in the finals.

Duncan had the a hell of a year for any 36 year old last season. Miami also had no little interior help to defend him so that also helped him have a great series.

Regardless of Wade's injuries, he's still a star to this day. 2010-12 he was a superstar, afterward he's been all-star caliber still. He played like his old self against the Knicks the other night, proving he's still quite capable. :confusedshrug:

Like I said, Duncan hasn't had nearly the help Lebron has, yet has yielded much higher results in the success aspect of the game.

[Lebron23]

And yet the 2008 and 2010 Celtics were clearly superior. 2012 was a lockout year remember?

The quality of opposition was pretty even IMO, but James clearly had the better supporting cast. Edge: Duncan.

It's not like either took the '95 Rockets path the title.

I think they were all pretty even. Rondo in 2012 is better than Rondo in 2010 and 2008. I think it was the last time the Celtics played their best.

They started to regressed in the 2012-13 NBA Season. Garnett was still a solid defender in 2012 while Pierce still averaged 19.4 ppg on 44.3 FG%

[gin17]

i don't know how anyone can take Lebron23's homer-glasses bait troll shit. looking at his posts in this thread make me feel like he shouldn't be taken seriously in this topic

[Lebron23]

i don't know how anyone can take Lebron23's homer-glasses bait troll shit. looking at his posts in this thread make me feel like he shouldn't be taken seriously in this topic


lebron sucks. Lebron is not even a top 10 player of all time despite being a 4x NBA MVP, 2x NBA Champion, back to back finals MVp, and plenty of NBA Records at age 29.

Rose and Kobe are better than him. Despite having more MVP's than these guys, and having better stats in the playoffs, regular season, and in the finals.

[T_L_P]

lebron sucks. Lebron is not even a top 10 player of all time despite being a 4x NBA MVP, 2x NBA Champion, back to back finals MVp, and plenty of NBA Records at age 29.

Rose and Kobe are better than him. Despite having more MVP's than these guys, and having better stats in the playoffs, regular season, and in the finals.

Again, the Heat were favourites in 2012 and LeBron simply improved on his already great stats.

Duncan took a mediocre team to glory putting up great numbers, playing the best defense in the league, and going through the 3-peat Lakers -- a team that, even with their problems, would still crush any team LeBron faced in 2012.

2012 was an all-time great run, but it's not Duncan's.

[ripthekik]

this thread is a joke :roll: :roll: :roll:

everyone comes in saying duncan and lebron23 got his feelings hurt and started spamming :lol

[Bigsmoke]

Duncan never had star teammates to the extent of Lebron, and has twice as many rings as him. Oh the things Duncan would have done if he had D-Wade as a teammate. :eek:

Good thing Duncan didn't play against that good of teams in his championship run in 2003


The Heat would have been toying with the 03 Nets

[Lebron23]

The Heat also didn't have a home court advantage in the NBA Finals. The Thunder won 47 games while the Heat won 46 games.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Good thing Duncan didn't play against that good of teams in his championship run in 2003


The Heat would have been toying with the 03 Nets

Doubtful. The Heat were pushed to the brink by the geriatric 39-27 Celtics.

The 2003 Spurs had no such troubles.

[Lord Bean]

I'll have to pick Duncan for this one.

2012 Lebron was one of the best players in the league at the time. 2003 Duncan was one of the best players of all time.

No disrespect to Lebron. He's an all-star and one of the top players in the game today, but we have to give Duncan his credit.
This is debatable. I think it's really a tossup between KD and Lebron.

Agreed about the rest though.

[T_L_P]

Doubtful. The Heat were pushed to the brink by the geriatric 39-27 Celtics.

The 2003 Spurs had no such troubles.

:lebronamazed:

[ThePhantomCreep]

The Heat also didn't have a home court advantage in the NBA Finals. The Thunder won 47 games while the Heat won 46 games.

More proof 2003 Duncan > 2012 LeBron

Duncan led his inferior supporting cast to the best record in the league. LeBron, with an embarrassment of riches, did not.

[Lebron23]

More proof 2003 Duncan > 2012 LeBron

Duncan led his inferior supporting cast to the best record in the league. LeBron, with an embarrassment of riches, did not.


You are probably a Kobe stan. who cares?? lebron is gonna have more finals mvp than your hero this year.

[ripthekik]

You are probably a Kobe stan. who cares?? lebron is gonna have more finals mvp than your hero this year.
You made this thread.. and now.. "who cares"?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[TMT]

Good thing Duncan didn't play against that good of teams in his championship run in 2003


The Heat would have been toying with the 03 Nets

What exactly about their path was weak? The NBA was different back then. Teams weren't as stacked full of stars then, but there were still some damn talented teams that the Spurs went through.

They went through the previously 3-peat champion Lakers, no explanation needed, the Suns with Marbury who was balling, a prime Shawn Marion, a young but studly Amare Stoudemire and they even had a veteran Penny Hardaway if I'm remembering correctly. Then they met the Nets in the Finals who were just flying through the Eastern Conference and were definitely talented. J-Kidd, K-Mart, Richard Jefferson, Mutombo, Kittles, far from an easy Finals.

It's easy to judge something if you never really watched the games. :confusedshrug:

[TMT]

The Heat also didn't have a home court advantage in the NBA Finals. The Thunder won 47 games while the Heat won 46 games.

The Finals hca format isn't always as helpful to the team with the better record, everyone knows that. Those three games in the middle really help the lower seed. Just for shits and giggles though, Lebron fouled the crap out of KD at the end of Game 2. One of the worst no calls in recent memory.

BTW, Lebron23, no response to my earlier post? You tend to fold in discussions like this all the time.

[Bigsmoke]

What exactly about their path was weak? The NBA was different back then. Teams weren't as stacked full of stars then, but there were still some damn talented teams that the Spurs went through.

They went through the previously 3-peat champion Lakers, no explanation needed, the Suns with Marbury who was balling, a prime Shawn Marion, a young but studly Amare Stoudemire and they even had a veteran Penny Hardaway if I'm remembering correctly. Then they met the Nets in the Finals who were just flying through the Eastern Conference and were definitely talented. J-Kidd, K-Mart, Richard Jefferson, Mutombo, Kittles, far from an easy Finals.

It's easy to judge something if you never really watched the games. :confusedshrug:

The Suns were Aight. Immature and young.

I also see double standards in your post.

LeBron championship aint shit because he had wade and bosh despite that they were hurt:wtf: the 03 Spurs had everyone healthy. according to your logic, Wade who was playing hurt and needed surgery after the Finals > Parker, Manu, Jackson, Rose, Robinson, Bruce Bowen


Spurs fans were dickriding Bruce Bowen saying he the best perimeter defender and now he is a.... Scrub :rolleyes:

[TMT]

The Suns were Aight. Immature and young.

I also see double standards in your post.

LeBron championship aint shit because he had wade and bosh despite that they were hurt:wtf: the 03 Spurs had everyone healthy. according to your logic, Wade who was playing hurt and needed surgery after the Finals > Parker, Manu, Jackson, Robinson, Bruce Bowen


Spurs fans were dickriding Bruce Bowen saying he the best perimeter defender and now he is a.... Scrub :rolleyes:

Never said anything of the sort. I said Tim Duncan never had a teammate the caliber of Dwyane Wade of 2010-12 if you read my posts, which is very true. Didn't even bother going into the fact that Lebron has had prime Bosh this entire time as well.

The '03 Spurs were also young and immature in some sorts. Parker throughout that playoff run was getting benched for the likes of Speedy Claxton, Manu was a rookie, Robinson was at the very end of his career, Bruce was in his second year with the team and had not yet developed into the elite defender he eventually became.

And to go along with what you said, wasn't the whole Heat team healthy in 2011? :confusedshrug:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Lebron James is a better and more valuable basketball player than Tim Duncan:facepalm
whoever disagrees is borderline insane:biggums:

[Lord Bean]

Lebron James is a better and more valuable basketball player than Tim Duncan:facepalm
whoever disagrees is borderline insane:biggums:
I'll have to disagree with you there. Tim Duncan is a better and more valuable basketball player than Lebron.

[red1]

Close but if we are talking todays league then I will take timmy. Can already imagine how prime duncan would rape todays bigs

[Marlo_Stanfield]

I'll have to agree with you there. Tim Duncan is a better and more valuable basketball player than Kobe.
:applause: :applause:
finally seeing the light:rockon:

[T_L_P]

Lebron James is a better and more valuable basketball player than Tim Duncan:facepalm
whoever disagrees is borderline insane:biggums:

Ha, go back and watch some of those 2003 games and say that again.

Duncan needed to be the team's offensive and defensive anchor. LeBron had more valuable defenders on his team so he could save his efforts for the offense...and even still he had a 23/5/5 Wade on his team...injured or not he was still leagues better than any of Duncan's teammates in '03.

2012 Heat minus LeBron: #1-3 seed in the East, chance of winning it all.
2003 Spurs minus Duncan: probably don't even make the Playoffs.

Shit, even with Duncan in '03 only 3% of the GMs thought the Spurs would win it all

[Lord Bean]

Close but if we are talking todays league then I will take timmy. Can already imagine how prime duncan would rape todays bigs
Can't picture it. It would just be way too hard for him to pull that off without being taken down by security and other players. By the time he got the guy's shorts off, he would've been tackled or knocked out. Not to mention the guy he's going for would probably be wearing compression shorts, etc.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

I'd give Duncan the edge on this but only slightly. I don't see how anyone can say it's not even close. Do people not remember Lebron's game 4 against the Pacers or game 6 against the Celtics? Or outplaying Durant in the Finals? He never failed to deliver that year.

I don't even think 2012 was Lebron's best playoffs run. Statistically, it was easily his 09 season.

[TMT]

Ha, go back and watch some of those 2003 games and say that again.

Duncan needed to be the team's offensive and defensive anchor. LeBron had more valuable defenders on his team so he could save his efforts for the offense...and even still he had a 23/5/5 Wade on his team...injured or not he was still leagues better than any of Duncan's teammates in '03.

2012 Heat minus LeBron: #1-3 seed in the East, chance of winning it all.
2003 Spurs minus Duncan: probably don't even make the Playoffs.

Shit, even with Duncan in '03 only 3% of the GMs thought the Spurs would win it all

Right on point. A lot of these kids never watched the games back in the day. They see who was on the roster and make some very bad assumptions.

Great post. :applause:

[Bigsmoke]

Never said anything of the sort. I said Tim Duncan never had a teammate the caliber of Dwyane Wade of 2010-12 if you read my posts, which is very true. Didn't even bother going into the fact that Lebron has had prime Bosh this entire time as well.

The '03 Spurs were also young and immature in some sorts. Parker throughout that playoff run was getting benched for the likes of Speedy Claxton, Manu was a rookie, Robinson was at the very end of his career, Bruce was in his second year with the team and had not yet developed into the elite defender he eventually became.

And to go along with what you said, wasn't the whole Heat team healthy in 2011? :confusedshrug:

The spurs had a balance of youth and experience.

The word is sacrificing individual goals to win as a unit and that's what the Spurs did. Jackson didn't just get good after he left:rolleyes:

you also gotta realize that the Spurs play at a slow pace.

Duncan never played with wade but... Played with Robinson Iin 98 before he was washed up

[Lord Bean]

:applause: :applause:
I blow men for money:rockon:
How is that in any way relevant to this topic? Get that out of here man.

[TMT]

The spurs had a balance of youth and experience.

The word is sacrificing individual goals to win as a unit and that's what the Spurs did. Jackson didn't just get good after he left:rolleyes:

you also gotta realize that the Spurs play at a slow pace.

Duncan was still the team. The Spurs in their later championships were more balanced, but Duncan deserves much more credit for 2003 than any of the others. Jackson hit some big shots, I'll give you that but it's not like he was Duncan's Ray Allen barely keeping hope alive in an almost lost situation. Duncan led this team completely on both ends of the floor. Like a post I quoted above, the Spurs go no where without Duncan that year, while the Heat without Lebron still have a shot at a top 4 seed in the East and a viable playoff run.

What does pace have to do with anything? They took their advantage, the player with arguably the best post game in the league and they pounded it down to him plentifully during the game. You act like teams are supposed to play fast. :lol

[Bigsmoke]

Duncan was still the team. The Spurs in their later championships were more balanced, but Duncan deserves much more credit for 2003 than any of the others. Jackson hit some big shots, I'll give you that but it's not like he was Duncan's Ray Allen barely keeping hope alive in an almost lost situation. Duncan led this team completely on both ends of the floor. Like a post I quoted above, the Spurs go no where without Duncan that year, while the Heat without Lebron still have a shot at a top 4 seed in the East and a viable playoff run.

What does pace have to do with anything? They took their advantage, the player with arguably the best post game in the league and they pounded it down to him plentifully during the game. You act like teams are supposed to play fast. :lol

Slower pace = individual stats of the players would look less flashy.

[TMT]

Slower pace = individual stats of the players would look less flashy.

Weak argument. The pace of the game doesn't determine how good one's teammates are. Lebron has still had better teammates than Duncan and that's the bottom line. Give prime Duncan Wade and Bosh + those elite three point shooters and you are going to win it every year hands down.

[T_L_P]

Slower pace = individual stats of the players would look less flashy.

So Duncan's stats are now definitely better than LeBron's?

[knicksman]

LOL at this joke of a comparison. Duncan won without any help while lebron

[rmt]

Just curious... how does having a good 2nd/3rd option take away a players indiviual performance? Let's not forget Parker is an FMVP as well

Don't you see the correlation between having an all-star, all-nba team mate like Dwade or an all-star team mate like Bosh to draw attention away from Lebron and give him more space. Did you miss last years OKC when Westbrooke went down and the opponent double-teamed the heck out of Durant? Parker was a 2nd year player four years away from FMVP.

LOL at some of the posts in this thread. Disparaging the 2005 Pistons like they didn't come close to a quarter of being repeat champions. Or downplaying 03 Shaq/Kobe Lakers like an 03 Shaq wouldn't kill 12 Heat big men. Or talking about slow pace like that doesn't "boost" Duncan's lower scoring numbers. Or complaining about how inconsistent DWade was like a 2nd year Parker who was benched in the last quarter of the 03 Finals game for Speedy Claxton wasn't inconsistent. Or that DWade and Bosh were (previous) franchise players compared to 2nd year players like TP and SJax and a rookie Manu.