This album from 90>>> almost anything today

[andgar923]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/ivan1087/SImQRMphDjI/AAAAAAAAC4k/UmwkUM5kfls/s1600/samples%20ice%20cube%20amerikkkas%20most%20wanted% 20large.jpg

Production not your A-B-C run of the mill sampling, not a simple one note synth playing. The production wipes the floor with almost anything done today (on a technical level).

Spitting is something that even some of today's top rappers will have a hard time spitting. They won't have the proper stamina, verbal dexterity to recite these lines, let alone write them. The flow, delivery, rhyming, lyrics, destroy most of today's rappers.

Ice Cube is a master storyteller that spits vivid tales with humor and great social insight. Simply a legendary album from a legendary and often underrated artist.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Rasheed1]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/ivan1087/SImQRMphDjI/AAAAAAAAC4k/UmwkUM5kfls/s1600/samples%20ice%20cube%20amerikkkas%20most%20wanted% 20large.jpg

Production not your A-B-C run of the mill sampling, not a simple one note synth playing. The production wipes the floor with almost anything done today (on a technical level).

Spitting is something that even some of today's top rappers will have a hard time spitting. They won't have the proper stamina, verbal dexterity to recite these lines, let alone write them. The flow, delivery, rhyming, lyrics, destroy most of today's rappers.

Ice Cube is a master storyteller that spits vivid tales with humor and great social insight. Simply a legendary album from a legendary and often underrated artist.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Bomb Squad and Cube was a really nasty combo

[ArbitraryWater]

yep, lots of the songs on this one are the BOMB.

[andgar923]

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]Bomb Squad and Cube was a really nasty combo

[Black and White]

Lupe Fiasco's the Cool?

[Jameerthefear]

rap is better now then it ever was

[Black and White]

rap is better now then it ever was
:biggums:

[RightToCensor]

Yeezus >

[ace23]

Um

[Jameerthefear]

smh. i'd bump ace's music before i would listen to this.



























okay maybe i wouldn't go that far...

[andgar923]

Lupe Fiasco's the Cool?

I said "almost anything", there are a few exceptions here and there. But it speaks volumes when an album 20 years old is better than damn near everything today.

One would think that as time went on rapping as an art evolved and technology made production superior.

We actually saw the art of rapping improve in the 90s and early 2k (very early). Production leveled off and perhaps dropped a bit (from a a technical standpoint that is) since this album was released.

As an example check out TI butcher this Kane classic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBT2mLIsy8M

Horrible delivery, timing, flow, stamina and it wasn't even a hard song to perform.

Then Black Thought shows us how it's done.

Again, those song are from the 80s.

[ace23]

All these people taking shots at me are going to look kind of stupid when I blow up.

[fsvr54]

The ***** You Love to Hate, one of the greatest hip hop songs

I am partial to Death Certificate though and I even prefer O.G. - Original Gangster to both.

[andgar923]

rap is better now then it ever was

Aint it past your bedtime?

[Jameerthefear]

All these people taking shots at me are going to look kind of stupid when I blow up.
you know i'm playing :cheers:

Aint it past your bedtime?
3:05 PM lol

[L.Kizzle]

All these people taking shots at me are going to look kind of stupid when I blow up.
Let's make a track.

[andgar923]

you know i'm playing :cheers:

3:05 PM lol
It's already past your bed time dude... you won't get in trouble? You have school tomorrow dude.

[ace23]

Let's make a track.
Go ahead. I'll rap over it if it's up to my standard.

[Black and White]

I said "almost anything", there are a few exceptions here and there. But it speaks volumes when an album 20 years old is better than damn near everything today.

One would think that as time went on rapping as an art evolved and technology made production superior.

We actually saw the art of rapping improve in the 90s and early 2k (very early). Production leveled off and perhaps dropped a bit (from a a technical standpoint that is) since this album was released.

As an example check out TI butcher this Kane classic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBT2mLIsy8M

Horrible delivery, timing, flow, stamina and it wasn't even a hard song to perform.

Then Black Thought shows us how it's done.

Again, those song are from the 80s.

Agreed, rap has turned into pure money making, the quality has dropped immensely, smh

[dr.hee]

All these people taking shots at me are going to look kind of stupid when I blow up.

:kobe:

[Rasheed1]

All these people taking shots at me are going to look kind of stupid when I blow up.


:roll:

gotta love your attitude though

[andgar923]

Agreed, rap has turned into pure money making, the quality has dropped immensely, smh

Even when rap was at it's best (90s) it was about money. I think that the difference is the 'art' of rap or the art of being a dope MC isn't the priority.

So yeah, I agree that it's purely about the money being it's the main and at times the only objective. I remember dudes rapped because they wanted to prove how dope they were, being a star or becoming rich wasn't even a thought.

Not to say that there isn't cats out there that don't do it for the love. It's just that the environment is completely different overall.

[andgar923]

Yeezus >

I like Yeezus conceptually, I think production was a step in the right direction (something I've been doing for years tho). It was a bold commercial album that I applaud and admire Ye for doing.

But having said all that, he still can't rap.

Production is good but production on the album I posted is still slightly better (although I personally prefer Yeezus' production, objectively speaking Bomb Squad's is better tho).

Ye is a weak rapper, always has been.

Bad flow, average rhyming (at best), just not a good MCee per se. Specially when compared to Cube who is a master at rhyming, delivery, flow.

[Black and White]

Even when rap was at it's best (90s) it was about money. I think that the difference is the 'art' of rap or the art of being a dope MC isn't the priority.

So yeah, I agree that it's purely about the money being it's the main and at times the only objective. I remember dudes rapped because they wanted to prove how dope they were, being a star or becoming rich wasn't even a thought.

Not to say that there isn't cats out there that don't do it for the love. It's just that the environment is completely different overall.

Also the audience has changed a lot too, the demographic that pays/provides the most money don't appreciate rap for what it was, it's all about how it sounds which is why they all have that "pop" flavour to them, see Drake, Chris Brown (and the people that appear on his songs) etc.

[L.Kizzle]

Underrated album from 1990, Poor Righteous Teachers Holy Intellect.

2nd best LP after Cube's is Mama Said Knock You Out then it''s Tribe Called Quest.

[Kblaze8855]

But it speaks volumes when an album 20 years old is better than damn near everything today.

Not really. You could pick the best albums of any time period and its better than damn near everything from any other era....because most music is crap in any era.

My people and I have been known to throw out a Once Upon A Time in the Projects reference here and there. I have nothing negative to say about the album or pre "You can do it" cube in general.

Im just saying....

Freddie Gibbs has mixtapes better than 95% of what I bought at the flea market and in stores 20 years ago.

Lot of garbage ass early 90s releases were in my collection at one point. I had Phantom of the Rapra....

[step_back]

rap is better now then it ever was

:kobe:

[L.Kizzle]

Not really. You could pick the best albums of any time period and its better than damn near everything from any other era....because most music is crap in any era.

My people and I have been known to throw out a Once Upon A Time in the Projects reference here and there. I have nothing negative to say about the album or pre "You can do it" cube in general.

Im just saying....

Freddie Gibbs has mixtapes better than 95% of what I bought at the flea market and in stores 20 years ago.

Lot of garbage ass early 90s releases were in my collection at one point. I had Phantom of the Rapra....
Who's garbage from the early 90s besides Biz Markie and Tone Loc, lol?

[Kblaze8855]

The most famous rappers that come to mind were not garbage....as is the case now though many act like eveyone who ever went platinum cant rap.

But most of what was out there just wasnt good.

Im not gonna search google for album names to shit I remember playing once and never again when I was a teenager. But it was quite a lot. Before the internet it was hit or miss. You didnt hear the album till one of your friends had it.

Led to a number of poor purchases when id hear one song I liked.

That was always music. Id say music was better in my moms day...least the singers were. She still had cases of records she didnt even like that id play now and then and see why.

Most music is always ass.

[Kblaze8855]

I do remember buying a Digital Underground mixtape in Augusta georgia in the early 90s....it was around the time Humpty Dance came out. I didnt get it for that but dude who was selling it had some song playing I did like.

Shit was garbage. I only remember because I let my cousin in Augusta keep it when we left.

It wasnt a "real" album but some dj tape on digital underground...which was fairly common at the time.

[L.Kizzle]

I do remember buying a Digital Underground mixtape in Augusta georgia in the early 90s....it was around the time Humpty Dance came out. I didnt get it for that but dude who was selling it had some song playing I did like.

Shit was garbage. I only remember because I let my cousin in Augusta keep it when we left.

It wasnt a "real" album but some dj tape on digital underground...which was fairly common at the time.
It couldn't have been Sex Packets or Son of the P because those albums are DOPE!

[ThePhantomCreep]

Gentrification killed the rap star.

[andgar923]

Not really. You could pick the best albums of any time period and its better than damn near everything from any other era....because most music is crap in any era.

My people and I have been known to throw out a Once Upon A Time in the Projects reference here and there. I have nothing negative to say about the album or pre "You can do it" cube in general.

Im just saying....

Freddie Gibbs has mixtapes better than 95% of what I bought at the flea market and in stores 20 years ago.

Lot of garbage ass early 90s releases were in my collection at one point. I had Phantom of the Rapra....

Most music is crap from every era, and every era has good and bad artists... nobody is gonna deny that.

But

The popular artists form the past>>> most of today's
The shitty artists from the past>>> most of the shitty artists from today's era
The dope artists from the past>>> most of the best artists from today

You mentioned Digital Undergound.... them>>> most rap acts today. Humpty Dance (song) is better than damn near every song of its ilk of the past decade.

Back to my main point.

The skills from past artists>>> damn near every artists today.

To be blunt, hip hop has declined in terms of the skill level. Most rappers today concentrate on punchlines and one liners. They usually leave out rhyming, flow, stamina, and writing a song as a whole.

I sit here and listen to Drake, and there's no comparison between Drake and the Cube record I posted. And Drake is considered one of the best rappers in general. And that's not even Cube's best album, he still had that old school 80s rhyming pattern from time to time, yet it's still a bit more complex than the simple rhyme schemes most rappers use today (specially Southern rappers).

This topic aint new and I've demolished any argument. Post today's top selling/top radio plays/ top street bangers and I'll compare them with the same one's from the same month from just about any year from the 90s and the 90s will destroy today's 8/10 times.

Shall we start the game? pick any month from the past decade and post the top hip hop track and I'll counter.

I've stated this a few times and i said it as a joke, but then realized that I was actually on point. But PM Dawn over most of today's rappers..... including Drake. Better flow, better rhyming, better lyrics, better stamina (control) etc.etc.

[Maniak]

All these people taking shots at me are going to look kind of stupid when I blow up.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Akrazotile]

One would think that as time went on rapping as an art evolved and technology made production superior.



I wouldn't think that.

Technology is typically the antithesis of art. Art is human creation. Robots and machines can't mimic the individual elements of emotion, inflection, passion, etc. that an individual singing or playing an instrument can.

That's why you see fewer and fewer instruments on a stage during a concert these days. Nobody wants to take the time to learn harmonica or saxophone or fiddle etc. All these wannabe-rockstars just learn to press little buttons on a machine that make noise, and they come up with gimmicky twitter names and absurd outfits and yell out things like 'DJ Scooby dooby doo IN THE HOUSE YALL, put yo hands 2 gethaaaa", and think they're teh d0pest rockstarz.

That's why music sucks now.

[Dresta]

All these people taking shots at me are going to look kind of stupid when I blow up.
:yaohappy:

[andgar923]

I wouldn't think that.

Technology is typically the antithesis of art. Art is human creation. Robots and machines can't mimic the individual elements of emotion, inflection, passion, etc. that an individual singing or playing an instrument can.

That's why you see fewer and fewer instruments on a stage during a concert these days. Nobody wants to take the time to learn harmonica or saxophone or fiddle etc. All these wannabe-rockstars just learn to press little buttons on a machine that make noise, and they come up with gimmicky twitter names and absurd outfits and yell out things like 'DJ Scooby dooby doo IN THE HOUSE YALL, put yo hands 2 gethaaaa", and think they're teh d0pest rockstarz.

That's why music sucks now.

I agree to some degree.

But we saw hip hop as an art form progress and evolve. We saw styles improve and change, we saw lyrics become more complex and poetic, we saw production get taken to new levels of both sampling and from scratch.

Compare the 70s, 80s and 90s and you clearly see how it evolves.

Today there's little evidence of the art advancing. A vast majority is actually stale and declining. I love music and I want to love rap like I used to, but it doesn't leave me a choice but to just be a casual fan and not a hip hop head.

[Dresta]

Art forms reach their peak and then generally decline, it's the way it is. They start out with connoisseurs being the only people taking an interest, but once it gains popularity you get all the pretenders and pseuds piling in, to the point where it becomes difficult to separate the wheat from the masses of chaff.

[Jameerthefear]

Art forms reach their peak and then generally decline, it's the way it is. They start out with connoisseurs being the only people taking an interest, but once it gains popularity you get all the pretenders and pseuds piling in, to the point where it becomes difficult to separate the wheat from the masses of chaff.
Quiet old man. This generation does everything better then the last. Music is better now then it EVER was.

[L.Kizzle]

I agree to some degree.

But we saw hip hop as an art form progress and evolve. We saw styles improve and change, we saw lyrics become more complex and poetic, we saw production get taken to new levels of both sampling and from scratch.

Compare the 70s, 80s and 90s and you clearly see how it evolves.

Today there's little evidence of the art advancing. A vast majority is actually stale and declining. I love music and I want to love rap like I used to, but it doesn't leave me a choice but to just be a casual fan and not a hip hop head.
New creations for music by use of technology should be used to help and advance, instead it's being used for an easy way out.


Think of when these news sounds and equipment were coming out in the 70s and 80s, they were used as say, extras not to dominate a whole release.


The use of drum machines in the early 70s were used basically as a click track in the background with live drums still being played. Every once in a while, it'll be used throughout a whole song. Take Timmy Thomas's 1972 hit "Why Can't We Live Together." Timmy Thomas: Why Can't We Live Together (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFU-FJzPE80)


New synthesizers like the mini-moog, the TONTO, synclavier, Yamaha DX7, Prophet, ect were used, but were used along with live instruments.


No newer keyboards like the Nord and others are used to just get sounds. You can create a whole album from a keyboard. In the 80's, you would just use a keyboard or just that, different keyboard sounds. Occasionally a drum machine was used. Usually the LINN Drum or the TR-808, if not live drums. You always needed a guitarist. And bass guitar was still used. You'd get a synth bass or moog bass often too. And a horn section and orchestration always live.


Now, the parts are being played on a keyboard. Piano, guitar parts, bass parts, drums sounds, ect all played from a keyboard. Basically, you don't even have to know music theory to make a track these days.

[The-Legend-24]

:roll:

Dustheads stay WOAT.

[Akrazotile]

Today there's little evidence of the art advancing. A vast majority is actually stale and declining. I love music and I want to love rap like I used to, but it doesn't leave me a choice but to just be a casual fan and not a hip hop head.


Well, once upon a time the music industry actually scouted for talent, and then promoted talent to the public. This was in the time before piracy.

With the advent of piracy, pure music became far less profitable. Marketing and gimmicks became a much stronger requisite to making a profit. The mainstream doesn't promote talent anymore, they promote controversy, contrived characters, wardrobe malfunctions, etc. to promote to goobers like B-Low who tune into anything mindless and outrageous, or they just promote handsome models masquerading as singers in order to sell music to the last demographic who actually still pays money for it, tween girls.

Even good underground music is harder to find because new acts take influence from what they were exposed to as youths. More of todays youth are exposed to junk, more of them mimic it when they pursue music.

It's no coincidence that music fell off hard right around the Napster era. Obviously there are some exceptions but the general pattern is clear. There is no reason to promote artists anymore. The only thing worth promoting, from a financial standpoint, is outrage.

[Akrazotile]

New creations for music by use of technology should be used to help and advance, instead it's being used for an easy way out.


Think of when these news sounds and equipment were coming out in the 70s and 80s, they were used as say, extras not to dominate a whole release.


The use of drum machines in the early 70s were used basically as a click track in the background with live drums still being played. Every once in a while, it'll be used throughout a whole song. Take Timmy Thomas's 1972 hit "Why Can't We Live Together." Timmy Thomas: Why Can't We Live Together (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFU-FJzPE80)


New synthesizers like the mini-moog, the TONTO, synclavier, Yamaha DX7, Prophet, ect were used, but were used along with live instruments.


No newer keyboards like the Nord and others are used to just get sounds. You can create a whole album from a keyboard. In the 80's, you would just use a keyboard or just that, different keyboard sounds. Occasionally a drum machine was used. Usually the LINN Drum or the TR-808, if not live drums. You always needed a guitarist. And bass guitar was still used. You'd get a synth bass or moog bass often too. And a horn section and orchestration always live.


Now, the parts are being played on a keyboard. Piano, guitar parts, bass parts, drums sounds, ect all played from a keyboard. Basically, you don't even have to know music theory to make a track these days.

I agree with all this. I don't have a problem with synths and drum machines etc. if they're being used to add layers to the music and the focus on melody isn't lost.

But they're basically being used a substitute. It's like instead of making a delicious sandwhich with six slices of turkey and a slice of swiss cheese and some tomato and jalapeno and dash of mayonaisse, they put one slice of turkey on a piece of bread and put half a jar of mayonaisse on top and call it a sandwich. :confusedshrug:

[andgar923]

Well, once upon a time the music industry actually scouted for talent, and then promoted talent to the public. This was in the time before piracy.

With the advent of piracy, pure music became far less profitable. Marketing and gimmicks became a much stronger requisite to making a profit. The mainstream doesn't promote talent anymore, they promote controversy, contrived characters, wardrobe malfunctions, etc. to promote to goobers like B-Low who tune into anything mindless and outrageous, or they just promote handsome models masquerading as singers in order to sell music to the last demographic who actually still pays money for it, tween girls.

Even good underground music is harder to find because new acts take influence from what they were exposed to as youths. More of todays youth are exposed to junk, more of them mimic it when they pursue music.

It's no coincidence that music fell off hard right around the Napster era. Obviously there are some exceptions but the general pattern is clear. There is no reason to promote artists anymore. The only thing worth promoting, from a financial standpoint, is outrage.

That's something that I never thought of.

It just opened up a new door for me. I'd really like to see any correlation and how illegal downloading affected music in general.

Naturally there's always gonna be good artists, great artists get inspired by great artists. But I wonder if there's talented people that just got inspired by the wrong artists as a result of illegal downloading and thus created crappy music.

How so one may ask?

Crappy artists tend to be popular and easily attainable. As radio stations, and video plays fine tune to appease the masse's thirst for subpar music. Aspiring artists will flock to what is readily available. The quality of what's easily attainable is low so they have no option but to be inspired (can also be subconsciously) by mediocrity,

[Akrazotile]

That's something that I never thought of.

It just opened up a new door for me. I'd really like to see any correlation and how illegal downloading affected music in general.

Naturally there's always gonna be good artists, great artists get inspired by great artists. But I wonder if there's talented people that just got inspired by the wrong artists as a result of illegal downloading and thus created crappy music.

How so one may ask?

Crappy artists tend to be popular and easily attainable. As radio stations, and video plays fine tune to appease the masse's thirst for subpar music. Aspiring artists will flock to what is readily available. The quality of what's easily attainable is low so they have no option but to be inspired (can also be subconsciously) by mediocrity,


Yep, back in the early days of music, all the record labels and music publishers etc. just assumed that if music wasn't good, people weren't going to buy it.

Eventually I think they started realizing people will buy anything if you market it to them, and you started to see an infusion of image and thematic trends into music, although quality music was still important. And then eventually, when a huge chunk of the consumer base (young men) stopped buying music altogether because they were downloading it, there was basically no incentive to find and develop quality artists. It had no impact whatsoever on sales. So the strategy was altered to produce...



http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/47752211/LMFAO.png

[MichaelCorleone]

nah.

[Kblaze8855]

Most music is crap from every era, and every era has good and bad artists... nobody is gonna deny that.

But

The popular artists form the past>>> most of today's
The shitty artists from the past>>> most of the shitty artists from today's era
The dope artists from the past>>> most of the best artists from today

You mentioned Digital Undergound.... them>>> most rap acts today. Humpty Dance (song) is better than damn near every song of its ilk of the past decade.

Back to my main point.

The skills from past artists>>> damn near every artists today.

To be blunt, hip hop has declined in terms of the skill level. Most rappers today concentrate on punchlines and one liners. They usually leave out rhyming, flow, stamina, and writing a song as a whole.

I sit here and listen to Drake, and there's no comparison between Drake and the Cube record I posted. And Drake is considered one of the best rappers in general. And that's not even Cube's best album, he still had that old school 80s rhyming pattern from time to time, yet it's still a bit more complex than the simple rhyme schemes most rappers use today (specially Southern rappers).

This topic aint new and I've demolished any argument. Post today's top selling/top radio plays/ top street bangers and I'll compare them with the same one's from the same month from just about any year from the 90s and the 90s will destroy today's 8/10 times.

Shall we start the game? pick any month from the past decade and post the top hip hop track and I'll counter.

I've stated this a few times and i said it as a joke, but then realized that I was actually on point. But PM Dawn over most of today's rappers..... including Drake. Better flow, better rhyming, better lyrics, better stamina (control) etc.etc.

Nah. You never really have. What you are is what some used to accuse me of(wrongly). Just era biased to an unreasonable extent. Its not even just on music. You do the same shit on basketball. Iremember something about Jordan in his last season on the Wizards being as good as 10/11 Wade.....perhaps some bullshit about Reggie Miller being a better scorer than anyone now except I believe Kobe and Durant.

Just a lot of....non sense.

No offense meant but you really dont strike me as the type its worth having a conversation with on some of these matters.

Funny thing is I had the EXACT same arguments on today vs yesteryear with my uncle damn near 20 years ago.

You do know that people who were our current age in the early 90s thought that days rappers and singers were garbage right?

Biggie, Rkelly, and so on were getting clowned on Comic View like Drake/Wayne/whoever would now.

Id tell them the same thing id tell you. just because Marvin Gaye existed doesnt mean a bunch of people not worth remembering didnt exist with him.

Im never gonna get into most of todays hits. Just isnt my kind of music. But my family wouldnt let me play my Public enemy tapes...thought it was just noise.

Doesnt mean I was listening to garbage. It means 30-40 year olds almost never like what 16 year olds do.

Ive been on ISH since topics like this bashed the late 90s/early 2000s people right up to people posting youtube videos with comments like "When they made REAL hiphop!" on old 50 Cent songs we mocked on here when they came out.

Its just....people getting older.

[russwest0]

every semi-decent or better album from the 90's >>> almost anything today

[Kblaze8855]

Id say far as my tastes....deciding what a good/great song is....

The top 100 songs from 1960-80 would probably rank ahead of the best from 84-04.

But its quite likely thats because the time weeded out the scum history doesnt need and all it leaves to remember are the Al Greens, led zeppelins, Marvin Gayes, Eric Claptons, temptations, Parliments, and Hendrix types.

Give it 20 years....when people forget Future and Gucci existed and pretend this whole era was Andre 3000, Big Krit, Kendrick, Jay Z, Eminem, (they will ease them into this era), and so on....I bet it doesnt look so bad.

Time has a way of smoothing the rough patches.

The best of every era stands up with some of the best from any. Eminem would rap circles around almost everyone to touch a mic....and Anthony Hamilton and Musiq make songs that could be hits in the 60s.

The icons...the real icons....they stand out. On a bit of a pedestal.

Which is why the 60s-70s might always get top billing.

Nas is nice as hell.

History will never place him next to Hendrix.

[Akrazotile]

Nah. You never really have. What you are is what some used to accuse me of(wrongly). Just era biased to an unreasonable extent. Its not even just on music. You do the same shit on basketball. Iremember something about Jordan in his last season on the Wizards being as good as 10/11 Wade.....perhaps some bullshit about Reggie Miller being a better scorer than anyone now except I believe Kobe and Durant.

Just a lot of....non sense.

No offense meant but you really dont strike me as the type its worth having a conversation with on some of these matters.

Funny thing is I had the EXACT same arguments on today vs yesteryear with my uncle damn near 20 years ago.

You do know that people who were our current age in the early 90s thought that days rappers and singers were garbage right?

Biggie, Rkelly, and so on were getting clowned on Comic View like Drake/Wayne/whoever would now.

Id tell them the same thing id tell you. just because Marvin Gaye existed doesnt mean a bunch of people not worth remembering didnt exist with him.

Im never gonna get into most of todays hits. Just isnt my kind of music. But my family wouldnt let me play my Public enemy tapes...thought it was just noise.

Doesnt mean I was listening to garbage. It means 30-40 year olds almost never like what 16 year olds do.

Ive been on ISH since topics like this bashed the late 90s/early 2000s people right up to people posting youtube videos with comments like "When they made REAL hiphop!" on old 50 Cent songs we mocked on here when they came out.

Its just....people getting older.



Honestly doe, I think most objective music fans of any age/era would tell you that each decade before the 00's had a greater preponderance of worthwhile artists and songs than the post-00 era. I understand that everyone has a tendency to favor nostalgia/familiarity but I also think it could be objectively proven that it has been a weak era for music since the advent of illegal downloading.

I like music from the 60s and 70s and I wasn't even born when it was made. So it's not a "back in my day" thing. Sure, there was plenty of throwaway music that didn't stand the test of time but I think comparing honestly, the hits from back then were way better than what qualifies as a hit today.

[Kblaze8855]

You like music from the 60s and 70s for the same reason I do....we dont have to hear what sucked.


Listening to my moms and my friends parents old records....

A LOT sucked.

But why would anyone remember it?

Digging in the crates is like mining for gold. Mostly its just a bunch of useless bullshit...but you hope to see something shiny.

Listening to 30-40 year old music is like going to a jewelry store.

Someone already found it for you....and saved it for others to enjoy.

Thats why current music is always considered worse than back in the day.

In the here and now....you are digging for gold.

In the past....people already found it for you.

I could listen to 10 new mixtapes ill hate to find one I like....or I could pop in Ready to Die...

I dont need to listen to Mc Suchandsuch mixtapes with knockoff Primo beats from 1993 to find a great 90s rapper. I know just where to look for those.


Kinda skews perception.

[Norcaliblunt]

I don't care what era it is radio music sucks because it's overkill. They play the same crap over and over. They never go deep into an artist's catalog. Plus IMO this whole modern corporate produced pop culture and the artist's it has created from the 50's on up has played it's self out. We need another musical revolution to change the whole concept of what we even think of as music.

You can find some cool obscure gems from any era that hasn't played out though you just gotta look.

[Akrazotile]

You like music from the 60s and 70s for the same reason I do....we dont have to hear what sucked.


Listening to my moms and my friends parents old records....

A LOT sucked.

But why would anyone remember it?

Digging in the crates is like mining for gold. Mostly its just a bunch of useless bullshit...but you hope to see something shiny.

Listening to 30-40 year old music is like going to a jewelry store.

Someone already found it for you....and saved it for others to enjoy.

Thats why current music is always considered worse than back in the day.

In the here and now....you are digging for gold.

In the past....people already found it for you.

I could listen to 10 new mixtapes ill hate to find one I like....or I could pop in Ready to Die...

I dont need to listen to Mc Suchandsuch mixtapes with knockoff Primo beats from 1993 to find a great 90s rapper. I know just where to look for those.


Kinda skews perception.


I agree with that, but which artists today can match the quality/quantity of Little Richard, Elton John, the Rolling Stones, Michael/Jackson 5, Aretha Franklin etc. ?

If you isolate the best artists from each era and compare them, I think you will find better music from ones in the 50s/60s/70s than afterward. But that's just my opinion.

[Norcaliblunt]

.or I could pop in Ready to Die...


See I'm the opposite, I'd rather go back and dig through some obscure shit and not listen to Biggie for the millionth time or at least listen to something a little more deep into his catalog. When everything is siphoned the only left is the radio friendly crap usually.

[Jackass18]

Id say far as my tastes....deciding what a good/great song is....

The top 100 songs from 1960-80 would probably rank ahead of the best from 84-04.

Music is pretty subjective, so there's no real right or wrong answer there. Pre-1980 is either missing some genres or doesn't have much from some genres that post-1980 music has. '84-'04 has more variety and also has the familiarity and nostalgia vibe for me. I guess the '60s and '70s would win out over a top 100, but there's probably a lot more songs I like from the '80s and '90s.

[Norcaliblunt]

I agree with that, but which artists today can match the quality/quantity of Little Richard, Elton John, the Rolling Stones, Michael/Jackson 5, Aretha Franklin etc. ?

And the only songs you'll hear from those artists on any mainstream radio station is the same shit you've heard a million times, and nothing different even though they have huge discographies. Plus the reason why those artists seem better is because they were original. Nobody has done anything new in years.

[BrownEye007]

I agree with that, but which artists today can match the quality/quantity of Little Richard, Elton John, the Rolling Stones, Michael/Jackson 5, Aretha Franklin etc. ?

If you isolate the best artists from each era and compare them, I think you will find better music from ones in the 50s/60s/70s than afterward. But that's just my opinion.
No artist from any era is better than Eminem imo. And the 80's and 90's had better music than any of the decades you mentioned. Other than a select few rock groups there isn't much worth listening to from back then.

[PHX_Phan]

I can't really speak from experience since I didn't grow up in the 60's, 70's, 80's and was a kid in the 90's, but I feel like one of the main reasons this era is perceived as weak for music is because the industry doesn't cater to legitimate artists anymore. It seems like all the good acts have to make an accessible pop song just to get any airplay, and pop artists/gimmicks dominate the charts.

Good music just isn't getting much exposure anymore. I think at some point the labels realized that it was more profitable to just manufacture an image, get a poster face and pay people to write their songs.

Maybe it's always been that way, I don't know, but I think this era of music is more reflective of the state of the industry rather than the current pool of talent.

[Dresta]

Quiet old man. This generation does everything better then the last. Music is better now then it EVER was.
The only thing this generation does better is in finding more and more frivolous things that distract the mind and save people from actually thinking about anything. Nearly every ****ing person i see nowadays is immersed in the wonders of the phone or some other bullshit. A population of mindless drones.

[Akrazotile]

I can't really speak from experience since I didn't grow up in the 60's, 70's, 80's and was a kid in the 90's, but I feel like one of the main reasons this era is perceived as weak for music is because the industry doesn't cater to legitimate artists anymore. It seems like all the good acts have to make an accessible pop song just to get any airplay, and pop artists/gimmicks dominate the charts.

Good music just isn't getting much exposure anymore. I think at some point the labels realized that it was more profitable to just manufacture an image, get a poster face and pay people to write their songs.

Maybe it's always been that way, I don't know, but I think this era of music is more reflective of the state of the industry rather than the current pool of talent.


This is what I'm sayin, too.

Yeah, nostalgia can play a part in some things but I think it also just happens to be flatly true that this is a WEAK era for good music.

[ThePhantomCreep]

No artist from any era is better than Eminem imo. And the 80's and 90's had better music than any of the decades you mentioned. Other than a select few rock groups there isn't much worth listening to from back then.

An artist who can't sing or play an instrument. If you say so. :facepalm

[eriX]

just because they dont get exposure doesn't mean there isnt good artist today...

and there is never music thats "better" than another :hammerhead:

[andgar923]

Nah. You never really have. What you are is what some used to accuse me of(wrongly). Just era biased to an unreasonable extent. Its not even just on music. You do the same shit on basketball. Iremember something about Jordan in his last season on the Wizards being as good as 10/11 Wade.....perhaps some bullshit about Reggie Miller being a better scorer than anyone now except I believe Kobe and Durant.

Just a lot of....non sense.

No offense meant but you really dont strike me as the type its worth having a conversation with on some of these matters.

Funny thing is I had the EXACT same arguments on today vs yesteryear with my uncle damn near 20 years ago.

You do know that people who were our current age in the early 90s thought that days rappers and singers were garbage right?

Biggie, Rkelly, and so on were getting clowned on Comic View like Drake/Wayne/whoever would now.

Id tell them the same thing id tell you. just because Marvin Gaye existed doesnt mean a bunch of people not worth remembering didnt exist with him.

Im never gonna get into most of todays hits. Just isnt my kind of music. But my family wouldnt let me play my Public enemy tapes...thought it was just noise.

Doesnt mean I was listening to garbage. It means 30-40 year olds almost never like what 16 year olds do.

Ive been on ISH since topics like this bashed the late 90s/early 2000s people right up to people posting youtube videos with comments like "When they made REAL hiphop!" on old 50 Cent songs we mocked on here when they came out.

Its just....people getting older.

But if you looked at Reggie's game it was (at that point in time) better than most player's offensive game.

A. His shot was better, so right from the start there's that advantage. But he could use screens, set you up, had an abundance of fakes and small moves that'll get you off guard, was sneaky quick, knew how to use his body, had good footwork, had an underrated post game, had a almost unstoppable fadeaway. Shit that most players today either don't have or don't put it together.

B. Older people didn't like hip hop because it was new to them. Old school hip hop heads that grew up with hip hop's inception weren't opposed to Nas, Wu, Tribe, BIG, Pac for the most part. True you may have had some disliking it for the violence and cursing but they eventually came around to it and appreciated the evolution of the art form. I've met some older folks that were like that originally "Today's rappers all talk about violence" but that was mostly their only critique. They recognized that it wasn't the cookie cutter A-B-C rapper from the early 80s they grew up on. Even the old school cats gave tons of props to the 90s rappers. So it wasn't them being nostalgic or wanting to prop up their era. The talent and evolution of the art form was recognized.

You're always gonna have great and bad artists, you're always gonna have artists that are remembered and albums that live on forever in any genre/era.

But if you compare the worse to the worse, the best to the best, the middle of the pack to the middle of the pack, the 90s (hip hop) will win out 8/10 times.

Mediocre artists front he 90s>>> mediocre artists from today

Fruity artist front the 90s>>> fruity artists from today (Drake)

On another note, we do have signs of music evolving tho.

Take EDM for example. We can clearly see the evolution from the Chicago House of the 80s to how it progressed in the 90s and 00s. We can see how it drew from different styles and genres and how technology actually aided in its evolution. There's things that are done today that one wouldn't even think about doing in the past. Even if one doesn't like artists like Skrillex and his ilk, the progression of that style of music is obvious. The technique and skill level has advanced, to be honest most of it may have to do with the software/hardware advancements but its advancements nonetheless.

So it's almost of a cop out when people say hip hop hasn't progressed because music as a whole hasn't, when we see evidence of it in other genres.

Like I stated, you post today's top (music chart) artist and I'll post one from a random 90s year.

[andgar923]

Randoom post...

A threat title in the NBA forum made me think of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB54dZkzZOY

Good music never gets old and can't be denied.

.

[Kblaze8855]

Im not going into Reggie vs the likes of Melo, Lebron, Wade pre decline(this was some time ago) and so on as a scorer...that just....isnt going anywhere. I watched dude score 16 with 70% of his teams plays involving a screen intended to get him a look too many times to act like he was some special scorer. Perhaps the worst ratio of plays run for to points scored in the history of the sport. Dude could barely dribble forward and knock down a pull up in his prime. He wasnt coming off screens because he didnt feel like taking over the way other stars could. He came off a gang of screens because he wasnt good creating his own shot. And ive seen his teammates, his coaches, opposing coaches, HOF commentators, and countless fans point out the same.

Anyway.....

That today vs yesteryear shit really doesnt prove anything. I'll use Redman since ive been listening to him a lot lately. Songs like Cant Wait and tonites Da Nite.....from albums that topped the charts.

Would I rather hear them over some Lil Wayne? Yes. Yes I would.

Does that mean that Waynes wordplay and flow on 6'7'' is worse than Redmans?


Life is the bitch, and death is her sister
Sleep is the cousin, what a ****in' family picture
You know Father Time, and we all know Mother Nature
It's all in the family, but I am of no relation


You know I'mma ball 'til they turn off the field lights
The fruits of my labor, I enjoy 'em while they still ripe
Bitch, stop playin', I do it like a king do
If these ****** animals, then I'mma have a mink soon

Paper chasin', tell that paper, "Look, I'm right behind ya"
Bitch, real G's move in silence like lasagna
People say I'm borderline crazy, sorta kinda
Woman of my dreams? I don't sleep so I can't find her



Compared to:


You wanna see me get cool, please, save it for the breeze
Cause the lyrics and tracks, make me funky like cottage cheese
**** the smooth shit, I get down wit the boom bip
Like Q-Tip, I kick more styles than Bruce shoe's kick
But tonight's the night what I write tonight
This type of funk with the flavor like Mike 'n' Ike's
Hanging out wit my ******, my ******
The Pack Pistol Posse keep they fingers on the triggers
I keep the 40 between my lap, coolin, rollin down the highway
Blunt system pumps cause it's Friday
Roll over to pick my boys up, we raise a lot of noise
Cause, we can do that black, so "Get the Bozack" Jack
Remember, I do the type of evil that men do
Like cursin out my window at a bitch and her friend too
So turn the volume up a notch
And watch the ba-BUMP, ba-BUMP, make ya speakers pop
That's the funk, when it pumps it makes your rump
Jump, jump, jump.. jump, jump, jump
But if you want to see a fly but frantic
Cool romantic, more slicker than my man Rick
You better check the Yellow Pages under smooth shit
Cause Red ain't down for the bullshit


It isnt like someone being objective could call Red more clever....his flow was easily more basic....partly because he didnt have all the computers to mask breath control issues....but ive seen Wayne rap his ass off live. He isnt exactly Big Pun on Yea Baby with engineers removing his heavy breathing.

But id still rather listen to Redman....

Partly because I like 90s production more. But being real about it....todays producers could steal and flip it just as easily. Hell with modern computers?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEObjARFo5o#t=19

They could rob Issac Hayes blind even easier.

But they flip songs a different way. Still sample but there is less of the original than in many 90s songs which were straight up thefts. I loved death row but Dre and Daz pretty much ripped off 30 second snippets of George clinton songs and called it producing.

Does the end result sound better than Wayne to me?

Yes.

But im not gonna act like because the guys now take a different approach its easier or worse.

I think the reason music in general is worse than before the 80s because thats around the time you didnt need real musicians involved. Once the sampling got going, drum kits, and keyboards took over it was mostly just rippingoff real musicians.

And they did it with such disregard...you straight copy a great song and add drums its gonna sound good off the bat.

So the simpler music of the time sounded better to me. I love Pete Rock. How he would flip 6 seconds of this and that....but it is what it is. Steal from a great source you can get a great end result.

But me wanting to hear that simpler non computerized music doesnt make it better...

And the lyrics are often no better either.

Do I feel anyone now is out rapping Nas on Illmatic? No. Do I have younger cousins who think Kendrick Lamar is? Yes. And im not sure how I argue with Rigamortis or whatever. Dude can rap his ass off....and would eat 90% of the people I listened to in the 90s alive just verse for verse or arguing about flow.

Just a different world. I like the one I came up in. My little cousin(about 19-20) cant stand most 90s shit outside Dre, Snoop, and a little Pac.

He genuinely prefers Rich Homie Quon and Kirko Bangs to De La Soul or Main Source. I dont get it....but my cousin Rick(about 50) doesnt get why I put Outkast over Run DMC.

Generational thing.

[dr.hee]

Generational thing.

This

[andgar923]

Im not going into Reggie vs the likes of Melo, Lebron, Wade pre decline(this was some time ago) and so on as a scorer...that just....isnt going anywhere. I watched dude score 16 with 70% of his teams plays involving a screen intended to get him a look too many times to act like he was some special scorer. Perhaps the worst ratio of plays run for to points scored in the history of the sport. Dude could barely dribble forward and knock down a pull up in his prime. He wasnt coming off screens because he didnt feel like taking over the way other stars could. He came off a gang of screens because he wasnt good creating his own shot. And ive seen his teammates, his coaches, opposing coaches, HOF commentators, and countless fans point out the same.



I agree he wasn't the best at creating off the dribble, as say MJ, Mitch, Melo, KD he wasn't as bad as you say he was.

Not the end all but here's a vid of him doing everything I described:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_nVfKndnQo

He didn't become a hall of fame player by simply coming off screens. He was crafty with the ball (as we see in the vid, I can post more if needed).

But my main point at the time that post was made, was to show how he was more versatile than Bron (at that point in his career). Bron wasn't as polished back then. He either drove or took a shot, very little else to his game offensively when compared against Miller. Miller had an array of quick moves, head fakes, step backs, even if they were coming off screens he set you up. THAT was my main point.

As to the music argument

Red's verse may not be as lyrical as Wayne's, but the entire delivery, flow, wordplay (within it's context)>>> Wayne's

Red's rhyme scheme is inherently more complex to pull off. Red was not known to be a great lyricist, he was more of a clever rapper that used his flow/cadence/delivery like Meth.

Regarding production, the production by Bomb Squad in that album is killing damn near everything today. But I did mention that production for the most part is leveled off. What I meant by that is, overall it hasn't decline as much as the rapping aspect (although there's tons of ABC keyboard simple beats).

I remember coming up you had to be good because studio time was expensive. you simply couldn't jump in and waste time. Even if you owned your own gear you had to learn how to use it. And the fact that you had to learn how to use it improved your skill and technique. You had to also go dig, which served as ear training and recognition.

Today computers has made things easier and accessible. Anybody can produce, the knowledge nor the training have to be there. That automatically takes away from the technical aspects. Unless one is a student and masters some of the software which from my experience most hip hop producers don't. Even some of the cats that work on hardware don't have the same technical abilities that earlier producers did due to the advancements of software and hardware integration (for better or worse). Having said that, the advancements make things easier for producers so they can do things today that were harder back then.

So things sorta level out at the end regarding production.

I can appreciate some of today's production ( I actually really dig Drake's production to the point that I study it). Sure it has a different sound, but if we sit there and analyze it, most of it doesn't compare to what the Bomb Squad did. I sit here and Im analyzing the different samples, how they flipped them, the technique used to flip them, the finished product etc. and Im blown. Shit that is even complex for me to duplicate with the software I have at my disposal.

Ask me to recreate some of today's hottest beats, and no problem.

Ask me to recreate a Bomb Squad joint and Im stuck.

As far as it being a generational thing...

I already mentioned that early hip hop heads have praised hip hop from the 90s. Outside the few critical of the violence and cursing, the vast majority acknowledged the evolution.

Im sure there's youngsters that feel their era is superior... but this generation is stupid in general.

When we were young we conceded that certain music and artists from the 60s and 70s were superior :confusedshrug: We still valued and idolized hip hop pioneers. But we were at a intersection and saw it evolve. We went from Doug E Fresh 'All the Way to Heaven' to Binary Star's 'Reality Check'.

[andgar923]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/Radiohead.okcomputer.albumart.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/TheProdigy-TheFatOfTheLand.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/BjorkPost.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/Depeche_Mode_-_Violator.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b1/Oasis_-_%28What%27s_The_Story%29_Morning_Glory_album_cove r.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/Dig_your_own_hole_album_cover.jpg

I'm kinda agreed.

Well... this was mainly about hip hop. We have seen better rock/alt acts than hip hop acts tho.

[Kblaze8855]

Ive watched Reggie Miller in person at his best. Not the mid to late 90s. When he still had the fade. Chicago Stadium Reggie Miller live in person. I have seen more of Reggie than I need to. Stand alone videos prove nothing because they can be made for everyone. I should know...ive made hundreds. Shit I made a Reggie Miller video like 10 years ago and combed through footage of mine ive never seen online to do it. I know his game....well. Just so happens ive seen dozens a lot better. Just wasnt a special scorer. Special if the standard is the average nba guard....

Drop him in the league now hes a notch below James Harden as a scorer. And Harden isnt that good either.

Given equal minutes in a similar situation hes not gonna score much more than Kendall Gill.

As for this:



Red's verse may not be as lyrical as Wayne's, but the entire delivery, flow, wordplay (within it's context)>>> Wayne's

Thats the kinda thing that just just tells me we can make no progress here.

Better word play...that verse vs 6'7''...

There was virtually no wordplay in it.

And this:


Red's rhyme scheme is inherently more complex to pull off.


There was nothing complex. Just a bit of off beat rhyming. Couldnt be more basic. Not like I posted say....Da Goodness. Redman is capable of some complex difficult to mimic flows but Tonights the night is childsplay.

I just like it because I always liked his style and I like the simple ass stolen beat.

So many people around my age can only do what you did there...give some backhanded compliment to acknowledge the obvious(waynes verse being more lyrical) then turn around and hate(it being worse in every other way).

Dude I went to school with was at my house a while back and a mutual fried was playing some Rick Ross song. He right away goes into the fake....cant rap...all this. I play one song. Ask him to forget who it is and listen to the first verse. One of the Mafia Music videos. Ross is on some

"Plenty cream...my women pose like figurines. Whips weaving through traffic the triple black centipedes"

Shit....

Be begrudgingly admits dude can rap and his production is incredible...but he still doesnt like him. Which I dont have issue with. But it forced me to ask...if you never listen to him how did you think he cant rap...and that the songs were bad.

Came down to something he heard in a club somewhere. Bugatti. Ace hood, Ross, and future. He hated the general feel of it. Opinion was...it was more of these new dudes who just cant rap. So I put him on some of Ace Hoods real music....Dreamer. **** the World. He had to admit once more....dude can rap.

Put him on some Gibbs. Another guy who makes songs that make people who barely listen....assume he isnt a good rapper.

He was feeling him. But he goes in hating. And its that way with so many people around my age and older.

Just hate first and never listen. Act like guys making nursery rhymes in the 80s are better just....because.

I try not to do that. Some guys hot right now just....suck to me. But im gonna hear it out.

Gucci is terrible. I live in the south now ive heard every album and mixtape. He has never spit a verse that was worth a second listen. future is just....a joke. He does know how to make a hook...but I cant listen to him for the most part. 2 chains isnt a great writer but hes kinda Snoop like in that he takes lyrics that mean nothing and may just be nonsense and flows it so well it works. Not someone im a fan of but there are songs he makes better.

I can be fair. Lot of guys seem to have lost that in favor of an era they liked coming up.

You are one of them. Music...sports...everything ive heard you discuss. Perhaps it wouldnt seem that way in person....probably just sit down and discuss it over some BBQ and brown liquor with my people we might see more eye to eye. But just the way it comes through in text...you dont seem to be the most reasonable person on these matters.

[BoutPractice]

Amazing album, but it really sells itself, doesn't need outrageous statements in its defence. Every era has its classics, just because the context changes doesn't mean that people are less talented.

Other than typical nostalgia, I'd say politics are no stranger to why "old school" hip hop is put on a pedestal - current hip hop (like indie rock compared to punk) has replaced confrontation against the system with a focus on sound and a sense of collective identity (Afrocentric, gangsta, whatever) with the fragmented inner world of an isolated man (Kanye of course is the poster boy here). Some will find this trend troubling because the injustices that more political rappers were exposing to the world are still going on strong today. The reality hasn't changed much, but the discourse has mostly moved on to other things.