Rondo coming back to life

[salwan]

rondo just posted 19pts, 10ast, 6rbs, 3stl on 9/11 shooting in 27 minutes.

4 assists and a basket came in the remaining 4minutes of the game when boston led 83-80. :applause:

mind you, it was against the weak magic, but still encouraging to see.

[navy]

What happened to Jeff Green?

[Nick Young]

stuffing his own stats to the detrement of team play, ball movement and winning, that's the kind of point guard you want to build your team around:lol

[Le Shaqtus]

stuffing his own stats to the detrement of team play, ball movement and winning, that's the kind of point guard you want to build your team around:lol

Not sure how getting assists is a detriment to your team :lol

[jzek]

What happened to Jeff Green?

He only plays well against the Heat.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Not sure how getting assists is a detriment to your team :lol
It is when you're a kobe fan

[navy]

Not sure how getting assists is a detriment to your team :lol

Sometimes ball dominant players have a tendency to over control the ball so their assist numbers are high but the team involvement levels are low.

[outbreak]

stuffing his own stats to the detrement of team play, ball movement and winning, that's the kind of point guard you want to build your team around:lol

once again you have no idea of how basketball is played

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

stuffing his own stats to the detrement of team play, ball movement and winning, that's the kind of point guard you want to build your team around:lol
Except Rondo carried the Celtics down the stretch and closed the game for them.

[Black and White]

stuffing his own stats to the detrement of team play, ball movement and winning, that's the kind of point guard you want to build your team around:lol

:facepalm

[salwan]

It is when you're a kobe fan


:roll: :roll:

[Lord Bean]

Great game from Rondo, but I don't think the stat padding was necessary. They were up by 22 with 3 minutes left, there's no reason he should've been in there.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Great game from Rondo, but I don't think the stat padding was necessary. They were up by 22 with 3 minutes left, there's no reason he should've been in there.
What game were you watching?

[salwan]

Great game from Rondo, but I don't think the stat padding was necessary. They were up by 22 with 3 minutes left, there's no reason he should've been in there.

they were leading by 3 with 4 minutes left when he took over.:biggums:

[Derka]

Yeah, it was Orlando. Still a good effort though. :applause:

[Lord Bean]

What game were you watching?
The Celtics Magic one

[Black and White]

Great game from Rondo, but I don't think the stat padding was necessary. They were up by 22 with 3 minutes left, there's no reason he should've been in there.

Are you sure you aren't talking about LeBron?

[Lord Bean]

Are you sure you aren't talking about LeBron?
No, Maimi didn't play today. I'm not denying that he would've done that had they played today though.

[Black and White]

No, Maimi didn't play today. I'm not denying that he would've done that had they played today though.

22 with 3 mins left tho???

[FatComputerNerd]

Rondo might seriously be the most criminally underrated player in the league.

How soon people have forgotten about his incredible playoff performances. :facepalm

[Lord Bean]

22 with 3 mins left tho???
Guys, leave me alone. My opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's here.

[ballup]

Guys, leave me alone. My opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's here.
On what apples and oranges?

[Sharmer]

rondo just posted 19pts, 10ast, 6rbs, 3stl on 9/11 shooting in 27 minutes.

4 assists and a basket came in the remaining 4minutes of the game when boston led 83-80. :applause:

mind you, it was against the weak magic, but still encouraging to see.


he can play but he's a punk with a bad attitude.

[Derka]

Guys, leave me alone. My opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's here.

You're being a bit obvious here. Knock it off.

[salwan]

he can play but he's a punk with a bad attitude.
:hammerhead:

[Sharmer]

:hammerhead:

You believe he has a good attitude?

[I.R.Beast]

Not sure how getting assists is a detriment to your team :lol
Because when a players dominates the ball and clock as rondo and everything essentially comes off of his "assist", the offense becomes stagnant because the ball isn't moving it's staying in his hands until he hits someone. His assists might be high individually but the TEAM assists suffer, so does the efficiency... With each year of rondo's assisst totals going up and his responsibility increasing my celtics have slipped in the offensive rankings and our offense became progressively more stagnant...

[ImKobe]

Because when a players dominates the ball and clock as rondo and everything essentially comes off of his "assist", the offense becomes stagnant because the ball isn't moving it's staying in his hands until he hits someone. His assists might be high individually but the TEAM assists suffer, so does the efficiency... With each year of rondo's assisst totals going up and his responsibility increasing my celtics have slipped in the offensive rankings and our offense became progressively more stagnant...

So why did Kobe never average more than 6 assists a game? He hogs the ball all the time and almost every possession goes through him when he's on the floor.

Celtics' offense has slipped because Jeff Green has fallen off a cliff. Last 10 games he's been shooting 35% from the field and 33% from 3, cmon son.

[RR#9]

rondo just posted 19pts, 10ast, 6rbs, 3stl on 9/11 shooting in 27 minutes.

4 assists and a basket came in the remaining 4minutes of the game when boston led 83-80. :applause:

mind you, it was against the weak magic, but still encouraging to see.
:banana: Here's hoping he he continues on the same path for the rest of the season (without ruining the tank job of course :oldlol: )

[JGXEN]

So why did Kobe never average more than 6 assists a game? He hogs the ball all the time and almost every possession goes through him when he's on the floor.

Celtics' offense has slipped because Jeff Green has fallen off a cliff. Last 10 games he's been shooting 35% from the field and 33% from 3, cmon son.
Jeff Green is totally garbage, man. In one game, he seems like a legit top 5 SF in the league and the next, he proceeds to shoot 2/17 and turns the damn ball 5 times. :(

[Sharmer]

Jeff Green is totally garbage, man. In one game, he seems like a legit top 5 SF in the league and the next, he proceeds to shoot 2/17 and turns the damn ball 5 times. :(


For all his talent he doesn't have a killer attitude.

But he underwent major heart surgery, so to be doing what he is now, is impressive.

[Rolando]

:applause: Keep up the good work Rondo! But...err....take it easy: A triple dub with a loss is OK too......

[Sharmer]

:applause: Keep up the good work Rondo! But...err....take it easy: A triple dub with a loss is OK too......


Rondo likes to embellish his stats, I see him a hard guy to fit into any system now.

[Rondo]

stuffing his own stats to the detrement of team play, ball movement and winning, that's the kind of point guard you want to build your team around:lol

You're an idiot :facepalm

[Rondo]

Rondo likes to embellish his stats, I see him a hard guy to fit into any system now.

The dude in your avatar was still in the game with about 2 minutes left in a blowout to OKC :oldlol:

[Rolando]

Rondo likes to embellish his stats, I see him a hard guy to fit into any system now.

Yes, he's an a$$hole like Kobe. Lebron, however, is a nice guy (Beta).

[Sharmer]

Yes, he's an a$$hole like Kobe. Lebron, however, is a nice guy (Beta).


Rondo has more thug in him than Kobe or Lebron.

[oarabbus]

Rondo likes to embellish his stats, I see him a hard guy to fit into any system now.



The dude in your avatar was still in the game with about 2 minutes left in a blowout to OKC :oldlol:



:roll: :roll:


Sharmer :facepalm

[Sharmer]

The dude in your avatar was still in the game with about 2 minutes left in a blowout to OKC :oldlol:


That was for team chemistry, to keep the offense in rhythm for the next game.

[Black and White]

That was for team chemistry, to keep the offense in rhythm for the next game.

:biggums:

[finchyyy]

I hope we don't trade him, I really like the Rondo/Bradley back-court.

[Sharmer]

I hope we don't trade him, I really like the Rondo/Bradley back-court.

Two guards that can't shoot.

:lol

[Black and White]

I hope we don't trade him, I really like the Rondo/Bradley back-court.

Ainge won't be hasty to move him, he's slowly coming back to form, he will be good to go come next season, when it comes to rebooting his contract then I think we will hear about possible moves, Jeff Green will get moved before Rondo does

[Black and White]

Two guards that can't shoot.

:lol

Elite playmaker + elite defender

[Sharmer]

Elite playmaker + elite defender

Then you need swingmen or bigs who can shoot, or the system fails, because there's no spacing.

[oarabbus]

Two guards that can't shoot.

:lol


Bradley can shoot. Give him 20 shots and he can make 7 or so :lol

[ballup]

Two guards that can't shoot.

:lol
Really showing that great observation skill of yours aren't you?

[Black and White]

Then you need swingmen or bigs who can shoot, or the system fails, because there's no spacing.

Exactly, which is why Green will get moved, Olynyk can shoot, Sully is a shooter, then Ainge will draft to support these two.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Then you need swingmen or bigs who can shoot, or the system fails, because there's no spacing.
Chandler Parsons?

[Sharmer]

Exactly, which is why Green will get moved, Olynyk can shoot, Sully is a shooter, then Ainge will draft to support these two.


Then your going to sux on the boards because the bigs are away from the basket, especially on the offensive end. You need guards that can shoot, at least the SG.

[Black and White]

Then your going to sux on the boards because the bigs are away from the basket, especially on the offensive end. You need guards that can shoot, at least the SG.

Let's not act like the current roster is close to what is planned. We will get a quality big, just need a C that can rebound, I trust Danny, we have cap flexibility and enough picks to get a 2nd high-ish pick in this draft.

[Sharmer]

Chandler Parsons?


No way Rockets are letting go him. But he would be a great acquisition, don't know how a deal could be done.

[Sharmer]

Let's not act like the current roster is close to what is planned. We will get a quality big, just need a C that can rebound, I trust Danny, we have cap flexibility and enough picks to get a 2nd high-ish pick in this draft.


Danny struck gold when signing the big three, but he's made some disastrous moves after that.

[oarabbus]

Let's not act like the current roster is close to what is planned. We will get a quality big, just need a C that can rebound, I trust Danny, we have cap flexibility and enough picks to get a 2nd high-ish pick in this draft.

I thought you guys were gunning for Gordon Hayward? What happened to that?

[Black and White]

Danny struck gold when signing the big three, but he's made some disastrous moves after that.

What moves are you reffering to?

[ballup]

Let's not act like the current roster is close to what is planned. We will get a quality big, just need a C that can rebound, I trust Danny, we have cap flexibility and enough picks to get a 2nd high-ish pick in this draft.
Our most pressing needs are a wing who can create for himself and a real rim protecting center.

[Black and White]

I thought you guys were gunning for Gordon Hayward? What happened to that?

Reports were that we are, but the interest has since faded. Danny won't overpay him, but we will see in the off-season, it might still be a possibility.

[Black and White]

Our most pressing needs are a wing who can create for himself and a real rim protecting center.

I think thats where the Hayward talks came from, will be an interesting off-season thats for sure

[hawksdogsbraves]

I like Hayward but somebody is going to make a big mistake giving him a big contract this offseason.

[KyrieTheFuture]

No way Rockets are letting go him. But he would be a great acquisition, don't know how a deal could be done.
Doesn't he have that weird contract where they can keep him next year and he's an unrestricted FA or they can decline the team option and he's a RFA this summer? I think Boston can and would offer more money.

[Sharmer]

What moves are you reffering to?


He acquired Green and Kristic after trading Robinson/Perkins. That was a Ok move, because Boston would have had the money to resign Perkins. Then he didn't do enough to sign Kristic.

He's had good rookie in semih erden, 7 footer who was shooting 59% from the field but was very good on the boards and at the basket. He traded him to the Cavs for Luke Harangody and second round pick.


Go back earlier in 2004, to Mike James Trade. He's drafted some terrible picks such as Wallace, paid way too much for a shiity free agents like Troy Murphy. He was no where near the same players as in OSW.

Then in 2012, when he tried to resign Ray Allen, he signed free agent Jason Terry, who was just a duplicate of Ray. Why would Ray resign , if the GM has brought in a player who would water down Ray's role.

It's all history now, but if you go over it. He's just a average GM, he's like to gamble. Why was he trying to trade Rondo for Chris Paul? That trade was never going to work.

[Black and White]

He acquired Green and Kristic after trading Robinson/Perkins. That was a Ok move, because Boston would have had the money to resign Perkins. Then he didn't do enough to sign Kristic.

He's had good rookie in semih erden, 7 footer who was shooting 59% from the field but was very good on the boards and at the basket. He traded him to the Cavs for Luke Harangody and second round pick.


Go back earlier in 2004, to Mike James Trade. He's drafted some terrible picks such as Wallace, paid way too much for a shiity free agents like Troy Murphy. He was no where near the same players as in OSW.

Then in 2012, when he tried to resign Ray Allen, he signed free agent Jason Terry, who was just a duplicate of Ray. Why would Ray resign , if the GM has brought in a player who would water down Ray's role.

It's all history now, but if you go over it. He's just a average GM, he's like to gamble. Why was he trying to trade Rondo for Chris Paul? That trade was never going to work.

All GM's make a bad move from time to time, the Perkins trade was a good one in hindsight because Green has become a quality player, he will package him in a trade for picks or a young guy,

The Erden trade probably was the one really bad move, but thats water under the bridge now,

In regards to the Terry thing, I am curious as to whether or not he knew Allen was moving on.

Since though, he has made a number of good moves, flipping Pierce and Garnetts contracts for picks, Doc for a pick, Lee's contract getting moved (great move), he has stockpiled 17 picks in the next 5 years and got salary cap relief, can't tell me that isn't a bad platform to start with.

[ballup]

He acquired Green and Kristic after trading Robinson/Perkins. That was a Ok move, because Boston would have had the money to resign Perkins. Then he didn't do enough to sign Kristic.

He's had good rookie in semih erden, 7 footer who was shooting 59% from the field but was very good on the boards and at the basket. He traded him to the Cavs for Luke Harangody and second round pick.


Go back earlier in 2004, to Mike James Trade. He's drafted some terrible picks such as Wallace, paid way too much for a shiity free agents like Troy Murphy. He was no where near the same players as in OSW.

Then in 2012, when he tried to resign Ray Allen, he signed free agent Jason Terry, who was just a duplicate of Ray. Why would Ray resign , if the GM has brought in a player who would water down Ray's role.

It's all history now, but if you go over it. He's just a average GM, he's like to gamble. Why was he trying to trade Rondo for Chris Paul? That trade was never going to work.
You mean the Semih Erden and Luke Harangody who are no longer in the league? Wow, such a big mistake. :rolleyes:

Ray's role would have been a bench player because of Bradley, not because of the addition Terry.

[Sharmer]

All GM's make a bad move from time to time, the Perkins trade was a good one in hindsight because Green has become a quality player, he will package him in a trade for picks or a young guy,

The Erden trade probably was the one really bad move, but thats water under the bridge now,

In regards to the Terry thing, I am curious as to whether or not he knew Allen was moving on.

Since though, he has made a number of good moves, flipping Pierce and Garnetts contracts for picks, Doc for a pick, Lee's contract getting moved (great move), he has stockpiled 17 picks in the next 5 years and got salary cap relief, can't tell me that isn't a bad platform to start with.


He's in a good position now, but a lot of that is luck because the Nets where desperate to win now. I just want to see what happens now, he needs to acquire a solid C or PF, but these are scarce in the NBA. He's got two quality guards, so he's definitely got some guards to play with.

Also Ryan Hollins and Greg Stiemsma were quality role playing big men, what ever happened to them ? I think Stiemsma wanted more money in free agency.

There's plenty of skilled shooting big men in Europe, he's better off clearing out roster space and trying to find a big in Euroleague first. It's low risk, but a high reward.

[Sharmer]

You mean the Semih Erden and Luke Harangody who are no longer in the league? Wow, such a big mistake. :rolleyes:

Ray's role would have been a bench player because of Bradley, not because of the addition Terry.


Erden had no luck in Cleveland. He's a big athletic 7 footer and just a rookie, he definitely had talent to work with.

[Black and White]

He's in a good position now, but a lot of that is luck because the Nets where desperate to win now. I just want to see what happens now, he needs to acquire a solid C or PF, but these are scarce in the NBA. He's got two quality guards, so he's definitely got some guards to play with.

Also Ryan Hollins and Greg Stiemsma were quality role playing big men, what ever happened to them ? I think Stiemsma wanted more money in free agency.

There's plenty of skilled shooting big men in Europe, he's better off clearing out roster space and trying to find a big in Euroleague first. It's low risk, but a high reward.

Stiemsma wanted more than Danny wanted to give, he made the right choice letting him walk,

The Nets thing isn't luck, Danny jumped on a chance to off-load the contracts and walked out with picks for 3 years, they would have been moved elsewhere if the Nets deal didn't happen.

I don't see him looking to Europe as of yet, Asik and Gortat will be on the market plus whatever moves he may make before the deadline might indicate what he is planning.

[b1imtf]

Rondoooooooo :rockon:

[Sharmer]

Stiemsma wanted more than Danny wanted to give, he made the right choice letting him walk,

The Nets thing isn't luck, Danny jumped on a chance to off-load the contracts and walked out with picks for 3 years, they would have been moved elsewhere if the Nets deal didn't happen.

I don't see him looking to Europe as of yet, Asik and Gortat will be on the market plus whatever moves he may make before the deadline might indicate what he is planning.

Problem is , for some reason, a lot of players don't want to play in Boston. :confusedshrug:

[ballup]

Erden had no luck in Cleveland. He's a big athletic 7 footer and just a rookie, he definitely had talent to work with.
Semih didn't make the cultural transition well enough and Ainge saw that early. Semih even opted to stay in Europe after the lockout ended.

[ProfessorMurder]

You mean the Semih Erden and Luke Harangody who are no longer in the league? Wow, such a big mistake. :rolleyes:

Ray's role would have been a bench player because of Bradley, not because of the addition Terry.

It's a real shame Harangody isn't in the league. He's a real baller. He was putting up 20/12 in the last two years in the dleague. Looked like Kevin Love out there at times.

He's easily worthy of a roster spot somewhere, just got unlucky and plays in Europe now I think.

[Sharmer]

Semih didn't make the cultural transition well enough and Ainge saw that early. Semih even opted to stay in Europe after the lockout ended.

So did Kristic, they end up making more money over there.

I know Doc said he there was a big language barrier. He couldn't understand English.

[salwan]

You believe he has a good attitude?

sure. he's a hard working player with a ton of heart and a winner's attitude.
I will take that every day of the week and twice on sundays.
he always reaches out to the rookies and his teammates speak about him fondly.

just because he doesn't play-act infront of the cameras like some other players do and because ray allen wanted to be more than a catch-and-shoot guy, doesn't mean that his not a nice guy. he's actually got a nice sarcastic sense of humor.

[ballup]

It's a real shame Harangody isn't in the league. He's a real baller. He was putting up 20/12 in the last two years in the dleague. Looked like Kevin Love out there at times.

He's easily worthy of a roster spot somewhere, just got unlucky and plays in Europe now I think.
I wouldn't trust dleague stats. I cant remember his positive qualities though.

[Sharmer]

. he's actually got a nice sarcastic sense of humor.


:lol

[ballup]

So did Kristic, they end up making more money over there.

I know Doc said he there was a big language barrier. He couldn't understand English.
So how exactly was trading Semih a bad idea if he was going to dip at the end of the season?

[ProfessorMurder]

I wouldn't trust dleague stats. I cant remember his positive qualities though.

I actually watched games when he was on the Mad Ants. He came back from an injury and was dropping 30/15 like nothing for like 7 games.

- Very good position rebounder. Used his body and boxed out.

- Very good mid range.

- Good IQ.

- Bit of a chucker/black hole (when he was in the dleague)

- Never got a handle for the NBA 3.

- Tweener at 6'8". Too slow for 3s, not strong enough for 4s.

He just got unlucky because he was stuck in Boston as a 3rd string PF behind KG and Baby. He could easily have played 4 in some small ball lineups with GSW or something.

[salwan]

:lol

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1136517/rondop.gif

[CelticBaller]

Erden had no luck in Cleveland. He's a big athletic 7 footer and just a rookie, he definitely had talent to work with.
Or maybe Rondo and KG made them look better. They are out of the league for a reason

[houston]

rondo is underrated

[salwan]

8 points, 11 assists, 9 rebounds, 2steals, 4-8 FGM-A

coming back to life

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/837379017.gif

[CeltsGarlic]

Perfect timing,salwan :lol

future rep

[maybeshewill13]

I love Rondo, glad to see him coming back to form :applause:

[salwan]

Perfect timing,salwan :lol

future rep

:cheers: I appreciate man

[Rolando]

Nice game Rondo! :applause:

[Twiens]

8 points, 11 assists, 9 rebounds, 2steals, 4-8 FGM-A

coming back to life

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/837379017.gif
My fantasy team has been waiting all season for this :applause:

[salwan]

last three games:

19 pts, 10 ast, 6 reb, 3stl, 9-11 fg in 27 mins.
8 pts, 11 ast, 9 reb, 2stl, 4-8 fg in 32 mins.
15 pts, 12 ast, 8 reb, 1 stl, 6-12 fg in 37mins.

:pimp:

[BlazerRed]

last three games:

19 pts, 10 ast, 6 reb, 3stl, 9-11 fg in 27 mins.
8 pts, 11 ast, 9 reb, 2stl, 4-8 fg in 32 mins.
15 pts, 12 ast, 8 reb, 1 stl, 6-12 fg in 37mins.

:pimp:
Classic Rondo.

[Rolando]

And still not quite 100%.:pimp:

[cltcfn2924]

Jeff Green is totally garbage, man. In one game, he seems like a legit top 5 SF in the league and the next, he proceeds to shoot 2/17 and turns the damn ball 5 times. :(

Don't forget lack of rebounding. I saw all upside last year, silly me.

[funnystuff]

It is when you're a kobe fan
:roll: :roll:

[cltcfn2924]

He acquired Green and Kristic after trading Robinson/Perkins. That was a Ok move, because Boston would have had the money to resign Perkins. Then he didn't do enough to sign Kristic.

He's had good rookie in semih erden, 7 footer who was shooting 59% from the field but was very good on the boards and at the basket. He traded him to the Cavs for Luke Harangody and second round pick.


Go back earlier in 2004, to Mike James Trade. He's drafted some terrible picks such as Wallace, paid way too much for a shiity free agents like Troy Murphy. He was no where near the same players as in OSW.

Then in 2012, when he tried to resign Ray Allen, he signed free agent Jason Terry, who was just a duplicate of Ray. Why would Ray resign , if the GM has brought in a player who would water down Ray's role.

It's all history now, but if you go over it. He's just a average GM, he's like to gamble. Why was he trying to trade Rondo for Chris Paul? That trade was never going to work.

Rondo for CP3 was fabricated by another GM. The rest of the above, eh, no better or worse than any other GM. The killer was throwing another ring away by not going for Poseys' 3 year deal. I think he threw away a ring there.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Rondo for CP3 was fabricated by another GM. The rest of the above, eh, no better or worse than any other GM. The killer was throwing another ring away by not going for Poseys' 3 year deal. I think he threw away a ring there.
No, what kept the Cs from repeating was KG's knee injury. In 2008 the numbers didn't show it but KG was as good as any big in the league. After that injury I'm not sure I ever saw him dominate a game offensively again. He has pretty much been a jump shooter since then. Not as good defensively either, though still a great defender.

[cltcfn2924]

He's in a good position now, but a lot of that is luck because the Nets where desperate to win now. I just want to see what happens now, he needs to acquire a solid C or PF, but these are scarce in the NBA. He's got two quality guards, so he's definitely got some guards to play with.

Also Ryan Hollins and Greg Stiemsma were quality role playing big men, what ever happened to them ? I think Stiemsma wanted more money in free agency.

There's plenty of skilled shooting big men in Europe, he's better off clearing out roster space and trying to find a big in Euroleague first. It's low risk, but a high reward.

A PF? What the heck is Sullinger?

[cltcfn2924]

No, what kept the Cs from repeating was KG's knee injury. In 2008 the numbers didn't show it but KG was as good as any big in the league. After that injury I'm not sure I ever saw him dominate a game offensively again. He has pretty much been a jump shooter since then. Not as good defensively either, though still a great defender.


Did I say anything about repeat? KG is still the best defensive anchor in the league, even though he hates playing the 5.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Did I say anything about repeat? KG is still the best defensive anchor in the league, even though he hates playing the 5.
You said a ring was thrown away. Do we really need to split hairs here? I'm just saying that Garnett's injury was what really held the Cs back. Posey was valuable but players like him are replaceable. The elite version of KG is not.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

15/12/8 for him last night :applause: a couple of threes, too.

[Upgrayedd]

Wish D-Rose was playing this season like this... :(

[DirkNowitzki41]

15/12/8 for him last night :applause: a couple of threes, too.

His shot looked pretty good last night.. has it improved since he came back?