So can we agree that the MAVS should have re signed Tyson Chandler

[TheMarkMadsen]

They obviously were delusional in thinking they were going to bring in Howard or Williams.

Dirk can still go, that much is obvious, they have a turrible starting center and are still in playoff contention ( will be bounced out of contention by Memphis IMO)

I think it was smart to not re sign JT, or JJ, they both were getting old and are smaller players which tend to lose value quickly as they age. But damn, I can't help but feel like they really missed an opportunity to build a dangerous playoff team around Dirk & Tyson.

Tyson was the perfect compliment to Dirk and as we've seen before Dirk & the Mavs historically struggle in the playoffs without a defensive stopper. Dirk and Tyson are the perfect fit, both can still go.

So what do you guys think, should Dallas have kept Tyson?

[Akrazotile]

In hindsight, yes.

I can respect the fact that they were forward-looking, and wanted to give themselves the flexbility to go after the leagues most coveted free agents at the time (Paul, Howard, Williams etc. )

[Audio One]

I thought Dirk won it all by himself?

[TheMarkMadsen]

In hindsight, yes.

I can respect the fact that they were forward-looking, and wanted to give themselves the flexbility to go after the leagues most coveted free agents at the time (Paul, Howard, Williams etc. )


I understand this point, but what at the time made them think these guys might actually be interested? Because as far as I remember Howard had absolutely no interest in the MAVS and his choice of teams never really included them.

they took a huge shot in the dark in hopes of having cap space, Tyson & Dirk were the 2 most important players on a championship team that had just beat the dream team Heatles, I thought it was dumb to let him walk then and I still think they should have resigned him.

Dirk & Tyson was a somewhat proven championship core, why break it up with no real back up plan for when they missed on all the big name FA

[TheMarkMadsen]

I thought Dirk won it all by himself?

please don't let this guy bait any of you.

[Akrazotile]

I thought Dirk won it all by himself?


Nah son.

Don't you know the formula that dummies use to figure out how to divide credit for every team that has a won a championship ever?

Batman
Robin
Role players.


Even if logic and intelligent analysis suggests that wasn't actually how it went down, this is how people like OP need to see things, becuase it's very simple. It's sort of like how you can teach a monkey basic addition, but you can't teach him calculus because their brains aren't that developed.

You can't have a discussion about anything intricate on a public board, because the dummies out there need simple formulas, sort of like political slogans.


Batman
Robin
Role players.


The guy who takes the most shots is always batman. Even if he doesn't lead the team in PER, Winshares, etc. and doesn't play defense and chokes all his selfish hero shots. He gets to be batman because shooting looks cool so that's most important.


Batman
Robin
Role players.


Every team ever.

[KrizMiz]

Hell yeah, there is no doubt!

they wanted dwight but failed!

[Bandito]

The guy who takes the most shots is always batman. Even if he doesn't lead the team in PER, Winshares, etc. and doesn't play defense and chokes all his selfish hero shots. He gets to be batman because shooting looks cool so that's most important.
Lebron?

[DirkNowitzki41]

As a Mavs fan.. I agree that we should have signed him. He was the perfect compliment for Dirk, and since we let him go, our biggest need is a defensive minded center who can rebound. Even tho he is overpaid... If we resigned him, I think we win that series vs OKC, and are way more competitive than what we are now

Although.. getting Deron was a very real possibilty, and I think he would have signed with us if Cuban showed up at the meeting. (I dont even think a max contract was offered).. they were only delusional about getting Dwight.

[kenny817]

Not for $60 f*ckin million

Dirk made him the most overrated player of all time

Chandler has played with CP3, Dirk, and Melo

1 of those 3 has been a champion...the other two are NBA career LOSERS

[outbreak]

As a Mavs fan.. I agree that we should have signed him. He was the perfect compliment for Dirk, and since we let him go, our biggest need is a defensive minded center who can rebound. Even tho he is overpaid... If we resigned him, I think we win that series vs OKC, and are way more competitive than what we are now

Although.. getting Deron was a very real possibilty, and I think he would have signed with us if Cuban showed up at the meeting. (I dont even think a max contract was offered).. they were only delusional about getting Dwight.

wasn't there a big thing about deron saying he wanted to go play in dallas and buying a house there or something? I guess they thought if they had deron dwight would follow which is probably a pretty likely scenario as dwight really wanted to play with deron

[TheMarkMadsen]

As a Mavs fan.. I agree that we should have signed him. He was the perfect compliment for Dirk, and since we let him go, our biggest need is a defensive minded center who can rebound. Even tho he is overpaid... If we resigned him, I think we win that series vs OKC, and are way more competitive than what we are now

Although.. getting Deron was a very real possibilty, and I think he would have signed with us if Cuban showed up at the meeting. (I dont even think a max contract was offered).. they were only delusional about getting Dwight.

Cuban missed a meeting? :wtf:

I agree that Chandler is overpaid, but in the context of what he brought to the Mavs, and how he was a huge part in them winning a championship i'm genuinly surprised Cuban wasn't willing to shell out the dough

Cuban spent 10+ years throwing $$$$$ at players to put around Dirk in hopes of winning a championship, and when they finally accomplish this goal, he just..stops trying :confusedshrug:

It kind of pissed me off as a basketball fan, felt like he conceded to being mediocre after winning a chip

[outbreak]

Cuban missed a meeting? :wtf:

I agree that Chandler is overpaid, but in the context of what he brought to the Mavs, and how he was a huge part in them winning a championship i'm genuinly surprised Cuban wasn't willing to shell out the dough

Cuban spent 10+ years throwing $$$$$ at players to put around Dirk in hopes of winning a championship, and when they finally accomplish this goal, he just..stops trying :confusedshrug:

It kind of pissed me off as a basketball fan, felt like he conceded to being mediocre after winning a chip

Not really what happened, he was willing to spend money but noone came to take his money. They thought they needed to improve so cleaned house and had a big obvious sign to free agents that they would pay them and make another run, they took a chance though that free agents would want to come and so far it hasn't panned out at all.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Nah, Mavs weren't going to win a championship again with him anyway. Ok, so you go one round further the past couple years. Big whoop.

Their mistake is thinking they can still compete right now. Should be blowing this shit up, tho, I know Cuban thought he could get better FA for one last hurrah with Dirk. oops.

[I<3NBA]

Chandler was perfect for Dirk because he covered all the holes in Dirk's game.

[DirkNowitzki41]

wasn't there a big thing about deron saying he wanted to go play in dallas and buying a house there or something? I guess they thought if they had deron dwight would follow which is probably a pretty likely scenario as dwight really wanted to play with deron

Yeah.. The one thing no one really mentions is that Dwight opted in with orlando that one year he was about to become a FA... if him and DWill were FAs at the same time then I think they both sign with dallas

So dwight possibly ****ed up Dallas big time


Cuban missed a meeting? :wtf:

I agree that Chandler is overpaid, but in the context of what he brought to the Mavs, and how he was a huge part in them winning a championship i'm genuinly surprised Cuban wasn't willing to shell out the dough

Cuban spent 10+ years throwing $$$$$ at players to put around Dirk in hopes of winning a championship, and when they finally accomplish this goal, he just..stops trying :confusedshrug:

It kind of pissed me off as a basketball fan, felt like he conceded to being mediocre after winning a chip

Yep. He missed the meeting to film an episode of Shark Tank :oldlol: Not even kidding. :facepalm

It also sucks to see Dirk waste a couple of very productive years with mediocre supporting casts on one year deals.. obviously in hindsight, it's easy to be upset at the decision but damn, being mediocre sucks :facepalm Who really knows what the Mavs would look like right now..

[Fazotronic]

smart fans always knew that the mavs only needed a defensiv center to put along side dirk and you get a deep playoff run everytime.
heck dirk alone always brought them in to the playoffs and when he finally gets one, they win the title.

[el gringos]

Restructure by deciding how long you want to be bad. And pick 2 years; then trade for Amare and get out of sanders, mayo, and Ersan.

Sanders, illyasova, ok mayo, Neal

For

Amare, Tim hardaway jr, Felton, 2018 1st rd pick, Aldrich

[imdaman99]

Not for $60 f*ckin million

Dirk made him the most overrated player of all time

Chandler has played with CP3, Dirk, and Melo

1 of those 3 has been a champion...the other two are NBA career LOSERS
Dirk has 0 playoff wins since. I don't like Tyson, since I agree he is overrated, but he is worth a lot to someone like Dirk. Let's relax now. Take him off the Knicks, and give us something for him because I don't care to have him in NY anymore :cheers:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Dirk has 0 playoff wins since. I don't like Tyson, since I agree he is overrated, but he is worth a lot to someone like Dirk. Let's relax now. Take him off the Knicks, and give us something for him because I don't care to have him in NY anymore :cheers:

This MAVS team with Chandler would be dangerous, of course by signing Chandler they might not have the money for Monta, but there a numerous players in the league who can bring 80% of what Monta brings for half the price.

An elite rim protector is the most important piece you can acquire when building around a player like Dirk.

Funny thing is the MAVS searched for a center to put next to Dirk for YEARS, hell they signed Eric Dampier to a HUGE contract, they used to be desperate for centers, then when they finally find one and when a championship the first year, they..let..him..walk..

:banghead:

[bdreason]

It depends. They weren't winning another title with or without Chandler, but they certainly would have been a better team. With the new salary cap rules, I think it's actually better to hover below the cap until you think you have a real chance to compete. Spending over the cap just to make the playoffs doesn't make sense anymore, because you only have a 2-3 year window to capitalize before the repeater tax kicks in.

[Heisenberg]

Chandler needs Dirk to win another ring, thats for sure.

[kenny817]

This MAVS team with Chandler would be dangerous, of course by signing Chandler they might not have the money for Monta, but there a numerous players in the league who can bring 80% of what Monta brings for half the price.

An elite rim protector is the most important piece you can acquire when building around a player like Dirk.

Funny thing is the MAVS searched for a center to put next to Dirk for YEARS, hell they signed Eric Dampier to a HUGE contract, they used to be desperate for centers, then when they finally find one and when a championship the first year, they..let..him..walk..

:banghead:

Same production as Monta for half the price??? WHERE?

Monta is averaging 20 points/6 assists/4 rebounds/2 steals a game

And makes like $7 mil. Please tell me where this player is that produces like this at $3.5 mil

[gasolina]

I might be a minority here. But are we just going to let Chandler slide for not taking that one year deal? I know players have to look out for themselves, but Chandler knew they had something good with Dirk.

He knew the new cap rules would make it difficult for him to get the contract he wanta with Dallas. But somehow uses that as an excuse to wash his hands off his absurd NY deal

Dirk
Tyson
Deron

Man that sounded good in 2012

[Magic731]

I don't blame them at all. I don't know about you guys but I really don't think they would have been able to repeat had they resigned Chandler. No way Miami let them win 2 years in a row. They made the decision with forward thinking in mind, they had won the chip so it wasn't as if that had to act fast to get a team around Dirk before he started to slow down. It's unfortunate that it didn't work out and it's easy for us to sit here now and ask this question but at the time I don't think there was any doubt it was the right decision.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Chandler might be the most overrated player in the league. He's not that good, and resigning him instead of going after those FA would not have come close to guaranteeing a championship level team for Dallas.

[Collie]

The 2011 championship was the perfect storm of the Mavs peaking at the right time, roleplayers stepping up, Dirk going godmode on everyone and a Lebron choke. It was lightning in a bottle that wouldn't have happened again, TC or not.

[ArbitraryWater]

Delusional? I'm sure they weren't far off of getting Howard... game of taking risks, this stuff happens.

None the less, Dirk=GOAT at carrying teams in the playoffs, will do the same this year... trust the holy german

[ArbitraryWater]

Chandler is helly overrated btw. Great defender, not dpoy stuff, but great. On offense? hardly useable.

[BoutPractice]

It was a justifiable gamble. Even with Tyson, their chance to repeat was limited (I think they at least make it to the second round in 2012, but they're unlikely to go past San Antonio, OKC and Miami unless Dirk goes on a legendary Hakeem style underdog run), so they went for a bold "lose in first round this year in exchange for possibly contending for the championship the two following years" approach. It didn't pay off, but it was a really tough call either way.

[eklip]

Chandler is getting paid like a star.

With Dirk's knee injury he couldn't carry the offense like he did in 2011. You have to remember that Dirk + Chandler + Marion would get over $46 million this year. The Mavs had no good players on cheap contracts after the championship and they wouldn't have been able to sign other good players.

Yes, Chandler would be great on this Mavs team, but there aren't many $14 million per year players who wouldn't be great on this Mavs team.

[gasolina]

I don't blame them at all. I don't know about you guys but I really don't think they would have been able to repeat had they resigned Chandler. No way Miami let them win 2 years in a row. They made the decision with forward thinking in mind, they had won the chip so it wasn't as if that had to act fast to get a team around Dirk before he started to slow down. It's unfortunate that it didn't work out and it's easy for us to sit here now and ask this question but at the time I don't think there was any doubt it was the right decision.
Another example would be the 99 knicks. Another perfect storm which resultes not in a ring, but just a finals blowout. And somehow the knicks FO thought Sprewell, Houston, Camby, broken LJ is a contender.

Handed out big contracts to everyone and paid for it for a decade of embarrassment

[DMAVS41]

They obviously were delusional in thinking they were going to bring in Howard or Williams.

Dirk can still go, that much is obvious, they have a turrible starting center and are still in playoff contention ( will be bounced out of contention by Memphis IMO)

I think it was smart to not re sign JT, or JJ, they both were getting old and are smaller players which tend to lose value quickly as they age. But damn, I can't help but feel like they really missed an opportunity to build a dangerous playoff team around Dirk & Tyson.

Tyson was the perfect compliment to Dirk and as we've seen before Dirk & the Mavs historically struggle in the playoffs without a defensive stopper. Dirk and Tyson are the perfect fit, both can still go.

So what do you guys think, should Dallas have kept Tyson?

Absolutely not.

If they had kept Chandler (a player that is very good, but also extremely over-rated, often injured, and overpaid)...our team would actually have been worse outside of 2012...

And even then in 2012 we would have had no chance to win.

We would have been paying Dirk, Marion, and Chandler a combined 45 million a year. That would never have worked to win the title again.

I've tried explaining this to people and they just don't get it. The Mavs only goal is to win the title. Chandler doesn't help you do that at his price. He helps you make the playoffs and have a slightly better team in 12, and then he hurts you in 13 and 14 because you don't have any money left.

So knowing the only goal was to win the title...and not just make the playoffs or win 1 series or something. Chandler coming back would have killed any chance we had.

Have you guys not watched Chandler? Dude has been awful for the Knicks in the playoffs the last 2 years and he's been injured a ton.

[jbryan1984]

Absolutely, I always felt he was the key reason Dallas won that year, not Terry. It really was the year he came around too. He had been in the league all those years with Chicago and Hornets. Always solid but never great. I loved that entire 2011 team though.

[DMAVS41]

Absolutely, I always felt he was the key reason Dallas won that year, not Terry. It really was the year he came around too. He had been in the league all those years with Chicago and Hornets. Always solid but never great. I loved that entire 2011 team though.

Could you explain why?

Because I think the confusion here is about the goal of the Mavs. It's not to just be solid and lose in the first round. It was to win the title.

And you simply aren't winning the title in this CBA with Dirk, Marion, and Chandler eating up like 45 million a year.

Not to mention that the Mavs won in 11 with a very unlikely to be repeated run...it's not like they had players playing at their normal clips. In fact, everyone played better than average.

Also, Chandler has been disappointing in New York. He's been injured and has played truly horrendous in the playoffs.

I think everyone agrees the Mavs would have been better in 12, but after that I just don't see any benefit to having Chandler.

Again. Goal was to win the title...and Chandler at 15 million a season isn't getting that done on and old and aging team drastically in need of scoring help for Dirk.

[Demitri98]

Could've and should've.

[DMAVS41]

Could've and should've.

What team would the Mavs have right now or the last few years.

Have you actually thought about this?

I'd like to hear how the Mavs would have won the championship or even been in contention in 12, 13, and 14 with Chandler at 14 plus million a year.

[DMAVS41]

Chandler is getting paid like a star.

With Dirk's knee injury he couldn't carry the offense like he did in 2011. You have to remember that Dirk + Chandler + Marion would get over $46 million this year. The Mavs had no good players on cheap contracts after the championship and they wouldn't have been able to sign other good players.

Yes, Chandler would be great on this Mavs team, but there aren't many $14 million per year players who wouldn't be great on this Mavs team.

Exactly...and 12...Terry was making like 11 million I think.

So those 4 guys would have eaten up like 57 million of the payroll. All a year older. All likely to play worse. A brutal short schedule and Dirk not being 100%...etc.

Such a long shot to win in 12...and then absolutely no chance to win in 13 or 14.

At least now we have the pieces in place to add someone and be great again. If we had Chandler right now...we couldn't even add much. He'd be eating up too much of the cap.

[brain drain]

Mavs absolutely should've resigned him.

Basically, they were an aging team and the probability that they could make another deep run in the next one or two years afte 2011 was much higher than later simply because it was clear that they can't get another player of Dirks's quality (neither Howard nor DWill have anywhere close to the same impact) and Dirk was already relatively old in 2011.

So the sensible thing would've been to stay in a "win now" mode at any cost, resign Chandler and hope that you can sign some "merry minimum" veterans instead of trying to do a mini-rebuild that would've at least cost a season even if it had worked.

Sometimes I think Dallas for some reason underestimated Dirk's value for the team even right after the championship. I konw it sounds insane, but what other reasoning would lead you to waste the tail end of your 31-32 year old superstar's prime by attempting to reload and losing at least one or two years in the process? It makes no sense at all, unless you think that getting DWill or Dwight can somehow make up for Dirk's decline.

Which is completely nuts, especially if you have these thoughts right after the 2011 playoffs.

[oarabbus]

I thought Dirk won it all by himself?


These kind of posts are just worthless and bring nothing to the table.

No one ever said Chandler's amazing defense wasn't a huge part of that championship. But Dirk went ape sh1t on everyone.

[DMAVS41]

Mavs absolutely should've resigned him.

Basically, they were an aging team and the probability that they could make another deep run in the next one or two years afte 2011 was much higher than later simply because it was clear that they can't get another player of Dirks's quality (neither Howard nor DWill have anywhere close to the same impact) and Dirk was already relatively old in 2011.

So the sensible thing would've been to stay in a "win now" mode at any cost, resign Chandler and hope that you can sign some "merry minimum" veterans instead of trying to do a mini-rebuild that would've at least cost a season even if it had worked.

Sometimes I think Dallas for some reason underestimated Dirk's value for the team even right after the championship. I konw it sounds insane, but what other reasoning would lead you to waste the tail end of your 31-32 year old superstar's prime by attempting to reload and losing at least one or two years in the process? It makes no sense at all, unless you think that getting DWill or Dwight can somehow make up for Dirk's decline.

Which is completely nuts, especially if you have these thoughts right after the 2011 playoffs.

The problem with all of this is that you can't "win now" while paying Chandler 15 million a year.

Seriously...look at what kind of rosters the Mavs would have been saddled with going forward. The only chance they'd have to win would have been 12...and it would have been a much longer shot than even 11.

Which is to say that it was not even in the realm of contender status.

You say people underestimate Dirk and Chandler, but the truth is you are underestimating how much better certain guys played than their normal ability. Dirk, Chandler, Terry, Kidd, Marion, and Barea all played better than normal.

You really think repeating that is likely? That actually is what makes no sense. Thinking lightning is going to strike twice while signing a center to near max for 4 years that can't even average a double double in a new CBA that virtually makes it impossible to improve the team until after the 14 season.

Players decline. Especially older players like the Mavs had in 11. You really think Terry is going to play by far the best ball of his career 2 years in a row? No way...

The only chance for the Mavs to win the title was to do what they did. It didn't work out, but that is besides the point.

[creepingdeath]

The problem with all of this is that you can't "win now" while paying Chandler 15 million a year.

Seriously...look at what kind of rosters the Mavs would have been saddled with going forward. The only chance they'd have to win would have been 12...and it would have been a much longer shot than even 11.

Which is to say that it was not even in the realm of contender status.

You say people underestimate Dirk and Chandler, but the truth is you are underestimating how much better certain guys played than their normal ability. Dirk, Chandler, Terry, Kidd, Marion, and Barea all played better than normal.

You really think repeating that is likely? That actually is what makes no sense. Thinking lightning is going to strike twice while signing a center to near max for 4 years that can't even average a double double in a new CBA that virtually makes it impossible to improve the team until after the 14 season.

Players decline. Especially older players like the Mavs had in 11. You really think Terry is going to play by far the best ball of his career 2 years in a row? No way...

The only chance for the Mavs to win the title was to do what they did. It didn't work out, but that is besides the point.
Dirk didn't play significantly better than during most of his postseason runs. I wouldn't have re-signed anyone except Chandler. And while I don't think Dallas wins a title in 2012, one thing is certain: with Chandler, the Mavs would have beaten OKC..

[Dizzle-2k7]

mark cuban is a FAKE.. A CHUMP.. A STAN...period.

dude had a dynasty in the making and BROKE IT UP because hes too CHEAP.

that core was good for 2-3 title runs (i think they couldve legitimately back2back). cuban broke it up

LMAO, MAVS WILL NEVER BE THE SPURS WHILE CUBAN IS AROUND.
SPurs are smart enough to keep a championship core together. Cuban dismantled it after ONE YEAR LMAO

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[brain drain]

The problem with all of this is that you can't "win now" while paying Chandler 15 million a year.

Seriously...look at what kind of rosters the Mavs would have been saddled with going forward. The only chance they'd have to win would have been 12...and it would have been a much longer shot than even 11.

Which is to say that it was not even in the realm of contender status.

You say people underestimate Dirk and Chandler, but the truth is you are underestimating how much better certain guys played than their normal ability. Dirk, Chandler, Terry, Kidd, Marion, and Barea all played better than normal.

You really think repeating that is likely? That actually is what makes no sense. Thinking lightning is going to strike twice while signing a center to near max for 4 years that can't even average a double double in a new CBA that virtually makes it impossible to improve the team until after the 14 season.

Players decline. Especially older players like the Mavs had in 11. You really think Terry is going to play by far the best ball of his career 2 years in a row? No way...

The only chance for the Mavs to win the title was to do what they did. It didn't work out, but that is besides the point.

The problem is that "we need a guaranteed championship" mentality. Sure it would've been difficult to repeat - but it also would've been difficult with 2 year older Dirk and a 2 year older Shawn Marion. Even if you get Dwight Howard.

And then, there's always the possibility that you don't get the top free agents. Dallas has absolutely no history of attracting top free agents, so you had to figure that in as well.

So, even if you don't have anywhere close to a sure thing for repeating, you do your best to ride the best player in franchise history. And after that you rebuild.

The "new CBA" thing is also ridiculous. They just could've gone over the tax limit and by the time the repeater tax kicked in, the team anyway would've been ready for blowing it up.

And then you tak for Wiggins or whatever.

But you absolutely don't waste the remaining superstar years of the best player in franchise history by pulling some rebuilding nonsense which results in playing without a decent center but a headcase LO, playing with two super-low-IQ guards like OJ Mayo and collison, and now with an overpaid absolute no-defense-Calderon, a Monta that seems to read OJ Mayo's handbook on how to be useless and chasing that elusive 8th spot forever, while never doing the necessary tank job necessary for a rebuild.

Really, the best thing would've been: try it with Chandler and whoever you get for the next 2-3 years, then blow the team up and let Dirk retire or join a good team somewhere else, trying to win another championship.

The way the Mavs have handled this, they've been irrelevant for the last 2 years, will be irrelevant this year, and won't be able to return to relevancy until they rebuild through the draft.

So, by chasing the pipe dream, Cuban essentially turned 2-3 possibly good and interesting years followed by a rebuild into perpetual 8th place chasing.

Good Job.

[imdaman99]

As a Knicks fan, he has underwhelmed. He's hurt so often, not to mention being shit in the playoffs. I feel as if he's been stealing money ever since he's got here. Sure it ain't my money, but it's money the Knicks could have used on someone else (knowing the Knicks... would have been someone terrible lol).

[DMAVS41]

Dirk didn't play significantly better than during most of his postseason runs. I wouldn't have re-signed anyone except Chandler. And while I don't think Dallas wins a title in 2012, one thing is certain: with Chandler, the Mavs would have beaten OKC..

If I said "signficantly" better...that was a mistake, but I do think what he was able to do in all those close games is hardly repeatable.

I mean...16 of the 21 games we played went into crunch time...and Dirk's clutch play was the best of the era by far. We weren't blowing teams out...we were winning tight games against teams that would likely be better the next year...etc. Repeating that seems more than far-fetched...

I just don't see how that is likely to be repeated.

Perhaps about the OKC series, but I certainly don't think you can call it "certain" that the Mavs beat OKC with Chandler.

[DMAVS41]

The problem is that "we need a guaranteed championship" mentality. Sure it would've been difficult to repeat - but it also would've been difficult with 2 year older Dirk and a 2 year older Shawn Marion. Even if you get Dwight Howard.

And then, there's always the possibility that you don't get the top free agents. Dallas has absolutely no history of attracting top free agents, so you had to figure that in as well.

So, even if you don't have anywhere close to a sure thing for repeating, you do your best to ride the best player in franchise history. And after that you rebuild.

The "new CBA" thing is also ridiculous. They just could've gone over the tax limit and by the time the repeater tax kicked in, the team anyway would've been ready for blowing it up.

And then you tak for Wiggins or whatever.

But you absolutely don't waste the remaining superstar years of the best player in franchise history by pulling some rebuilding nonsense which results in playing without a decent center but a headcase LO, playing with two super-low-IQ guards like OJ Mayo and collison, and now with an overpaid absolute no-defense-Calderon, a Monta that seems to read OJ Mayo's handbook on how to be useless and chasing that elusive 8th spot forever, while never doing the necessary tank job necessary for a rebuild.

Really, the best thing would've been: try it with Chandler and whoever you get for the next 2-3 years, then blow the team up and let Dirk retire or join a good team somewhere else, trying to win another championship.

The way the Mavs have handled this, they've been irrelevant for the last 2 years, will be irrelevant this year, and won't be able to return to relevancy until they rebuild through the draft.

So, by chasing the pipe dream, Cuban essentially turned 2-3 possibly good and interesting years followed by a rebuild into perpetual 8th place chasing.

Good Job.

What you don't get is that 8th place chasing vs first round losses are the same thing for this franchise with Dirk nearing the end!

It was championship or bust. At least with not signing Chandler you gave the team a chance to win it all by getting another star or at least getting lucky. With a ****ing 6/8/1 center (yes...that was what Chandler did the last two years in the playoffs) making 15 million a year...you CAN'T win.

And people seriously under estimate how important Kidd was to Chandler's success...not to mention Haywood as well. Haywood would be gone and Kidd was done...

Whatever chance the Mavs had to win in 11...would be followed up in 12 with an even more improbable chance....then having to go through 13, 14, and 15 with Chandler eating up 14 plus million a year.

Our team was in a "no-win" situation...just the way it turned out. Keep Chandler and you don't win...let him go and you don't get a star.

However, our roster currently is way better than it could have been with Chandler. We are not only better this year than we would have been had we kept Chandler, but we will be way better next year as well because of all the extra cap room of not having a 14.5 million dead weight center on the roster.

Sometimes you just can't win the title. Just the way it is. You have to understand that is the only goal for the team with Dirk almost done. If Dirk was younger and we had more time...it would be different. But I can assure you nobody in the Mavs organization is playing to make the first round or 2nd round...they were trying to find a way to get back to being a contender. And unfortunately there was no way that could have happened.

That is the reality of winning it all with an old as **** team with half the players playing well beyond their normal play...and a new CBA kicking in with your center turning down a 1 year 21 million dollar deal...which, by the way, would have actually made Chandler more money in the long run.

So it just gets annoying for people to act like Chandler changes anything for the positive...unless of course you have a different goal than the franchise clearly stated it had. Which would be perhaps getting to the 2nd round in 12...if that was the goal...then bringing Chandler back makes sense. But if it was to go all in on trying to win a title...you don't pay a guy that can't average a double double in the playoffs the kind of money Chandler got for 4 years.

How quickly people forget that nobody in the league even wanted this guy before he came to Dallas. People act like we had Marc Gasol or Roy Hibbert or Howard...LOL

[DMAVS41]

As a Knicks fan, he has underwhelmed. He's hurt so often, not to mention being shit in the playoffs. I feel as if he's been stealing money ever since he's got here. Sure it ain't my money, but it's money the Knicks could have used on someone else (knowing the Knicks... would have been someone terrible lol).

Exactly. Why is everyone ignoring this? He's been shit in the playoffs and has missed significant time the last two years.

That is the sick thing. We offered Chandler a 1 year 20 million dollar deal. If he took it and played as well as he did in 12...he would have gotten a full max deal with any team in the league.

So it would have been 20 million...plus a 4 year full max.

Why didn't he take it? Because he's an often injured and over-rated center...and his value was inflated because of the Mavs title.

People need to stop acting like the Mavs didn't offer him something. We did...a shit ton of money...and he turned it down for security. Don't blame him at all, but he had his chance to stay...and just a year before...he couldn't even find a team that was willing to take him for 1 year before the Mavs.

Maybe he'll come back after next year or something...we can sign him for 5 million a year.

[creepingdeath]

If I said "signficantly" better...that was a mistake, but I do think what he was able to do in all those close games is hardly repeatable.

I mean...16 of the 21 games we played went into crunch time...and Dirk's clutch play was the best of the era by far. We weren't blowing teams out...we were winning tight games against teams that would likely be better the next year...etc. Repeating that seems more than far-fetched...

I just don't see how that is likely to be repeated.

Perhaps about the OKC series, but I certainly don't think you can call it "certain" that the Mavs beat OKC with Chandler.
I agree that Dirk's display of clutchness was very unique. However, his overall level of player wasn't all THAT different compared to most of his runs. That's all I'm saying and I think we can agree on that.

On the other hand, is it likely that Barea or Terry would have repeated what they did in the 2011 postseason? Not at all. With that being said, I still believe that Cuban should have thrown everything he got at Chandler. Yes, Tyson got overrated, especially regarding his defensive impact (for example, the Mavs defensive rating with Haywood as a starter wasn't any different than before). But his locker room presence and the fact that he could handle himself quite well in our offense - may I remind you of Dallas' anemic butter-fingered other centers? - were abilities unseen in a center on any Mavs team of the Dirk era. And come on, these last three years have been a total waste of Nowitzki's prime. Who cares if Chandler's big contract would have locked up the Mavs for another, fourth year? Not to mention that they at least would have had a trading asset for that big free agent the front office has been waiting for years now.

And there is no doubt in my mind that Dallas makes the second round in 2012. In three out of four games, the Mavs choked, sometimes as badly as squandering a 5-point lead within a two-possession time frame. I'm pretty sure that the 2012 DPOTY might have changed the outcome.

[Sharmer]

They obviously were delusional in thinking they were going to bring in Howard or Williams.

Dirk can still go, that much is obvious, they have a turrible starting center and are still in playoff contention ( will be bounced out of contention by Memphis IMO)

I think it was smart to not re sign JT, or JJ, they both were getting old and are smaller players which tend to lose value quickly as they age. But damn, I can't help but feel like they really missed an opportunity to build a dangerous playoff team around Dirk & Tyson.

Tyson was the perfect compliment to Dirk and as we've seen before Dirk & the Mavs historically struggle in the playoffs without a defensive stopper. Dirk and Tyson are the perfect fit, both can still go.

So what do you guys think, should Dallas have kept Tyson?

never liked the Mav's, thought they got lucky, when they won. They can go eat shit, especially the owner Mark Cuban.

[TheMarkMadsen]

never liked the Mav's, thought they got lucky, when they won. They can go eat shit, especially the owner Mark Cuban.


The team who wins a best of 7 series doesn't win due to luck

they dominated after game 2 and wrapped it up in 6

:facepalm

[finchyyy]

If Dwight doesn't opt in the final year in Orlando, I think he definitely goes to Dallas. Would be perfect for him.

[Duderonomy]

Nah son.

Don't you know the formula that dummies use to figure out how to divide credit for every team that has a won a championship ever?



Batman
Robin
Role players.


Every team ever. except the heat had Batman, Robin,Batgirl, Gordon, and all of Gotham.

[DMAVS41]

I agree that Dirk's display of clutchness was very unique. However, his overall level of player wasn't all THAT different compared to most of his runs. That's all I'm saying and I think we can agree on that.

On the other hand, is it likely that Barea or Terry would have repeated what they did in the 2011 postseason? Not at all. With that being said, I still believe that Cuban should have thrown everything he got at Chandler. Yes, Tyson got overrated, especially regarding his defensive impact (for example, the Mavs defensive rating with Haywood as a starter wasn't any different than before). But his locker room presence and the fact that he could handle himself quite well in our offense - may I remind you of Dallas' anemic butter-fingered other centers? - were abilities unseen in a center on any Mavs team of the Dirk era. And come on, these last three years have been a total waste of Nowitzki's prime. Who cares if Chandler's big contract would have locked up the Mavs for another, fourth year? Not to mention that they at least would have had a trading asset for that big free agent the front office has been waiting for years now.

And there is no doubt in my mind that Dallas makes the second round in 2012. In three out of four games, the Mavs choked, sometimes as badly as squandering a 5-point lead within a two-possession time frame. I'm pretty sure that the 2012 DPOTY might have changed the outcome.

But what does Chandler do to stop any of it?

Lets say I agree that we make the 2nd round in 12...so what? So that year isn't a waste because of 1 playoff series win.

There is no way we do anything with Dirk hurt in 13 for the first half of the season. At best it's an 8th seed sweep in the first round with Chandler...although he was hurt/awful in 13.

And this year we would just be way worse with Chandler instead of the team we currently have. Not only is he hurt yet again, but he would have prevented us from getting both Calderon and Ellis. And once again hurts our future as we wouldn't have near the same cap space this coming summer.

Also, Chandler's trade value is not great right now. It would have been after 12 I guess, but why trade him after his best year?

Come on. The Mavs were in a "no win" situation. Getting to the 2nd round (potentially) in 12 is just not worth what we would have had to give up for Chandler.

I agree it sucks that Dirk has had to "waste" these last 3 years, but Chandler just doesn't change anything. Unless getting to the 2nd round in 12 is worth it all...which I just don't think it was on any level.

I think Cuban and Nellie deserve more blame for not going after Gortat early this year. Marion and filler definitely could have gotten that done. Or trying to trade for Asik. Those are moves we should be making right now. We are holding on to Marion's expiring contract for no reason. We should be using that and Larkin and Dalembert's expiring (team option) contract as trade bait for teams looking to unload.

I looked at my post you responded to. I simply said Dirk played above his "normal" play. Which he did...especially looking forward. The likelihood of an aging Dirk repeating that performance was unlikely. In fact, if Dirk had played as well as he did in 11 against the Thunder in the 12 series...we would have won. We just can't sit here and ignore that 12 was going to be a different team no matter what...and so much of what made 11 great was going to be lost not in players, but in performance from guys like Kidd, Terry, and Marion, and Barea, and Stevenson...Peja...etc.

Also, if we are fair to Cuban/Nellie...Lamar Odom ****ed us in 12. We actually had a great roster if he didn't quit on us. Haywood/Mahinmi/Wright were about 90% as good as our center play overall was in 11....and I liked the additions of West and Carter.

I think it's a bit unfair to judge 2012 like many do. If Odom plays at his normal rate...that team could have made some real noise in the playoffs. In fact, I like that 12 roster better than if we had Chandler actually given the play of the replacments for Chandler at center. Odom's crumbling just ruined any chance that team had.

So while I agree we have a better team with Chandler than what we ultimately ended up with in 12 because of the Odom disaster, I don't think it's fair to judge Cuban/Nellie much on that.

But where you lose me, and others do as well, is when we talk about 13 and 14. How would we be better with Chandler in any meaningful way? At best in 13 we make the playoffs as the 8th seed and get rocked. This year we'd already be out of the playoffs with Chandler missing so much time...and our future would be worse.

So I guess I just don't get it...