Which One Of You 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists Just Did This?

[DonDadda59]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC6RHKPayb0

I know it had to be one of the posters here. Looking at you Bagelred...

[MavsSuperFan]

****ing truthers...
Dumbest people in the country. And I hate bush.

[longhornfan1234]

Liberals...:facepalm

[miller-time]

It is amazing to think that some people have been stuck in this rut for 13 years now.

[LeGOAT]

Throw that clown in Guantanamo

[russwest0]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Props to that dude.

I recommend all the sheep watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs_quLjUHwM

it's not even some typical lame ass 9/11 video at all. It's satire but the point gets across to anyone who isn't a total moron.

Every US war has started with a false flag operation. The Iraq war was no different.

[KingBeasley08]

That n*gguh was like :wtf: :oldlol:

[LeGOAT]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Props to that dude.

I recommend all the sheep watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs_quLjUHwM

it's not even some typical lame ass 9/11 video at all. It's satire but the point gets across to anyone who isn't a total moron.

Every US war has started with a false flag operation. The Iraq war was no different.
85% of conspiracy theorist are suffering from mental retardation. Maybe if from the chem trails and fluoride :eek: :eek:

[russwest0]

85% of conspiracy theorist are suffering from mental retardation. Maybe if from the chem trails and fluoride :eek: :eek:

Asking questions instead of blindly believing the government = retarded?

[DonDadda59]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Props to that dude.

I recommend all the sheep watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs_quLjUHwM

it's not even some typical lame ass 9/11 video at all. It's satire but the point gets across to anyone who isn't a total moron.

Every US war has started with a false flag operation. The Iraq war was no different.

Suspect #1 Right here doe ^. Reported to Homeland Security.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QnsjpXeq9V8/UJMCg1u96PI/AAAAAAAAAYU/nqKUMAPb4FY/s1600/MoePolygraph1.jpg

[LeGOAT]

Asking questions instead of blindly believing the government = retarded?
Blindly believing fellow retards who make conspiracy videos with zero sources is retarded yes

[ThePhantomCreep]

Liberals...:facepalm

Conspiracy nuts tend to be right-wingers. Alex Jones?

[Akrazotile]

Every US war has started with a false flag operation. The Iraq war was no different.


You're wasting your breath here, man.

The weak don't wanna think about this stuff. The idea of the resulting chaos from exposure to reality terrifies the weak and the insecure. People rather just accept the convenient explanation and keep living their lives in normal and predictable fashion.

I used to be on this 'try to convince everyone' thing too. But the masses aren't meant to be convinced. It just aint gonna happen.

[Akrazotile]

S
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QnsjpXeq9V8/UJMCg1u96PI/AAAAAAAAAYU/nqKUMAPb4FY/s1600/MoePolygraph1.jpg


....Sears catalog. DING!


Now will you unhook me please??? I don't deserve this kind of shabby treatment. BZZZZ!

[ThePhantomCreep]

You're wasting your breath here, man.

The weak don't wanna think about this stuff. The idea of the resulting chaos from exposure to reality terrifies the weak and the insecure. People rather just accept the convenient explanation and keep living their lives in normal and predictable fashion.

I used to be on this 'try to convince everyone' thing too. But the masses aren't meant to be convinced. It just aint gonna happen.

Meh. Conspiracy nuts are the real sheep.

Look how many lapped up the shite served in the Loose Change series. Doctored phone calls? GTFO.

[KevinNYC]

Conspiracy nuts tend to be right-wingers. Alex Jones?

Conspiracy nuttiness affects folks across the political spectrum. It's how human beings brains are wired. A little bit faulty. Which conspiracies you believe might be affected by your politics, but the propensity is there no matter who you are.

[KevinNYC]

It is amazing to think that some people have been stuck in this rut for 13 years now.


Actually the conspiracy nonsense really got going several years afterwards.

Loose Change came out in 2005. It's easier to push the theories when you several years beyond the events and people's memories get hazy, but the emotions are still there.

The insta-false-flag conspiracy is relatively new

[Akrazotile]

Meh. Conspiracy nuts are the real sheep.

Look how many lapped up the shite served in the Loose Change series. Doctored phone calls? GTFO.


Absolutely. If the truth is the starting vector point, the narrative usually diverges from it in both directions. Loose Change was a bunch of confounded and sensationalist silliness.

In these instances, I like to use the forest and the trees analogy. If you're looking at the details of a tree, you are inherently too close up to see the whole forest. If you can see an entire forest, you cannot see the details of each tree.

To understand why things like 9/11 happen, you have to have a general understanding of history, politics, sociology etc. Basically an overview of the forest. You don't need to see a guy signaling from a window on the 84th floor just before the plane hits, or trucks furtively deploying away from the scene after the collapse of building 7 etc. These details are too close up to matter. You're never gonna know the specifics, and frankly they don't matter. Loose Change is basically fictional docu-tainment about theoretical specifics of a broad issue.

Basically the people who believe Loose Change are the ones fixating too much on the details, and the people who dismiss any possibility of conspiracy are just looking away entirely. If you can see the forest for the trees, you understand that a few ragtag radical camel jockeys do not manipulate the actions of the world superpower triumverate of US-Israel-Britain. It is, in fact, just the opposite.

[Norcaliblunt]

This clip from the movie Casino pretty much sums up my opinion on the official 911 story.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JcZHSGyos6g

[MadeFromDust]

Liberals...:facepalm
Them ****ers are wack crazy :eek:

[IamRAMBO24]

People rather just accept the convenient explanation and keep living their lives in normal and predictable fashion.
.

What irks me is these people are completely manipulated by the "authoritarian" fallacy that they don't want to consider any other explanation.

Like one of the arguments asked, "Where are the sources?" How about your observation dumbsh*t? How about a bit of reasoning?

The authoritarian voice can be manipulated, but it is kind of hard to manipulate observation and sound reason.

[Akrazotile]

What irks me is these people are completely manipulated by the "authoritarian" fallacy that they don't want to consider any other explanation.

Like one of the arguments asked, "Where are the sources?" How about your observation dumbsh*t? How about a bit of reasoning?

The authoritarian voice can be manipulated, but it is kind of hard to manipulate observation and sound reason.


Let's say we could find out the absolute truth about 9/11 tomorrow, and for arguments sake let's say it indicted every major politician in the US.

The ramifications would be unthinkable. The entire government would have to be overthrown. How would that even happen? A militia? A revolution? It would be madness. It would be CHAOS.

Nobody really wants that, now especially imagine if you're some simple-minded, slow-witted average american beta. Chaos is the nightmare scenario for the weak and insecure. It means fending for themselves. It means leading their own way. It's terror. Orwell said it best. "FREEDOM IS SLAVERY. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."

The fact is, most Americans both need and want manipulative and abusive leaders who at least keep things ordered, rather than a free-for-all. For most people, the scariest thing of all is chaos. Most people are meant to follow. They need to be led. That's just the way the world works.

[miller-time]

Actually the conspiracy nonsense really got going several years afterwards.

Loose Change came out in 2005. It's easier to push the theories when you several years beyond the events and people's memories get hazy, but the emotions are still there.

The insta-false-flag conspiracy is relatively new

Actually they got going pretty early on. They probably didn't all fall together into a more single theory until somewhere between 03 and 04 and from then it probably took awhile before Loose Change was produced, but I remember very clearly reading about some of the conspiracy theories when I was still doing IT in 2001. Unfortunately I actually got really into it for awhile, it was kind of like an awakening. I never really looked at the world in that way and just took everything for granted. But then after awhile it got really nutty and I got out of it quickly.

[IamRAMBO24]

Actually they got going pretty early on. They probably didn't all fall together into a more single theory until somewhere between 03 and 04 and from then it probably took awhile before Loose Change was produced, but I remember very clearly reading about some of the conspiracy theories when I was still doing IT in 2001. Unfortunately I actually got really into it for awhile, it was kind of like an awakening. I never really looked at the world in that way and just took everything for granted. But then after awhile it got really nutty and I got out of it quickly.

Conspiracy theories backed up with a video and sound reasoning is more powerful than any newscast.

Sure there are some wild ones out there, but it is prob your fault for believing them in the first place.

Guys like Kevnyc disgust me; here we have a video and a logical explanation, but he can't wrap his mind around it because it's not being reported by Fox Channel 9.

This whole authoritarian mindset is by far worse than even the crazy conspiracy nuts. You can literally pull any sh*t out of your a*s and then say it's from a "reputable" news station and these idiots will fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

Americans are just stupid; they would rather be told what to think than to think on their own.

[Akrazotile]

Conspiracy theories backed up with a video and sound reasoning is more powerful than any newscast.

Sure there are some wild ones out there, but it is prob your fault for believing them in the first place.

Guys like Kevnyc disgust me; here we have a video and a logical explanation, but he can't wrap his mind around it because it's not being reported by Fox Channel 9.

This whole authoritarian mindset is by far worse than even the crazy conspiracy nuts. You can literally pull any sh*t out of your a*s and then say it's from a "reputable" news station and these idiots will fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

Americans are just stupid; they would rather be told what to think than to think on their own.


God's joke is cruel.

He gives a man clarity of vision, and then surrounds him with a hundred blind men so he cannot discuss that which he sees.

[DonDadda59]

Conspiracy theories backed up with a video and sound reasoning is more powerful than any newscast.

Sure there are some wild ones out there, but it is prob your fault for believing them in the first place.

Guys like Kevnyc disgust me; here we have a video and a logical explanation, but he can't wrap his mind around it because it's not being reported by Fox Channel 9.

This whole authoritarian mindset is by far worse than even the crazy conspiracy nuts. You can literally pull any sh*t out of your a*s and then say it's from a "reputable" news station and these idiots will fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

Americans are just stupid; they would rather be told what to think than to think on their own.

Straight booty chatter. Suspect #2 reported to the federales.

[Akrazotile]

Straight booty chatter. Suspect #2 reported to the federales.


The suspects are already workin wit the fuzz. This goes deep, on some The Departed type shat.

[ThePhantomCreep]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Props to that dude.

I recommend all the sheep watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs_quLjUHwM

it's not even some typical lame ass 9/11 video at all. It's satire but the point gets across to anyone who isn't a total moron.

Every US war has started with a false flag operation. The Iraq war was no different.


A clip that argues almost entirety from incredulity/lack of imagination. Weak sauce.

[Bandito]

What irks me is these people are completely manipulated by the "authoritarian" fallacy that they don't want to consider any other explanation.

Like one of the arguments asked, "Where are the sources?" How about your observation dumbsh*t? How about a bit of reasoning?

The authoritarian voice can be manipulated, but it is kind of hard to manipulate observation and sound reason.
So I am just to blindly believe in theories that doesn't have any backing up to it just because it is different? A theory doesn't make it a fact either way without any proof of it happening.

[YouGotServed]

Throw that clown in Guantanamo

:roll:

[dr.hee]

So I am just to blindly believe in theories that doesn't have any backing up to it just because it is different?

Yes. It'll make you feel special.

[Bandito]

Yes. It'll make you feel special.
I dont want to be special ed though...

[dr.hee]

I dont want to be special ed though...

Don't think of it as a school. More like summer camp.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/11/10/gitmo460.jpg

[miller-time]

Yes. It'll make you feel special.

I made a post about this awhile back. I think it actually does make you feel special.


I don't think it has to do with hatred of the government, as much as fear of its perceived power or insecurity over ones own lack of power. By being a conspiracy theorist you get to believe you are lifting the veil and gaining some measure of power (by way of knowledge) over the government. People that are lost and feel powerless are suddenly important and perceptive. They are no longer followers and they no longer need to find self worth in mainstream society.

Imagine how special you must feel when you believe that you know something the majority of the population don't!

[dr.hee]

Imagine how special you must feel when you believe that you know something the majority of the population don't!

Agree. That's why, when being confronted with counter evidence making their claims more than shaky, they're resorting to the "You're all brainwashed...stupid sheeple" rhetoric, preserving their worldview of themselves as the enlightened minority surrounded by brainwashed idiots.

Conspiracy theories are the instagram selfie of intellectual conversations. It's making you as unique and special as a duckface photo in front of your bathroom mirror.

[andgar923]

I don't believe everything the truthers spew, but......

Some of us have been warning about the NSA and other shit for decades but were called paranoid tinfoil lunatics.

The government was involved or partially responsible for 9/11.

Either by covering up or by aiding to a degree.

There's far too many conveniences and obstructions for them not to be responsible to some degree.

The gov has shown repeatedly that it doesn't care about its citizens, it has shown repeatedly that it is willing to do what it wants when it wants because most people won't care (even if they do question).

Let's be honest, even if 98% of the population believe that the gov orchestrated the 9/11 attacks what are they gonna do? march outside and answer polls? How is the government gonna respond? by pretending to be forthcoming and make tons of promises which they won't fulfill, just to smooth things over.

At the end of the day, truthers aint gonna do shit. Even then it doesn't matter if the truthers are 100% correct, it won't change a thing.

[dr.hee]

Some of us have been warning about the NSA and other shit for decades but were called paranoid tinfoil lunatics.

So governments have intelligence agencies, big deal. Seriously, this realization is nothing remarkable or profound. Just look at the stuff being pulled off during the cold war without modern technologies, and it's just common sense to know that today, pretty much everything is possible. I mean come on, all it took to hack into some NASA level type of shit or stuff like that is some dude at his laptot. Doesn't mean much if someone figures out that thousands of employees and a multi-million dollar budget kind of makes things even easier. Come on, that's something to be proud of? Nothing new, nothing special.

That's exactly what I was talking about...propping up non remarkable realizations in order to separate oneself from the masses.

[nathanjizzle]

Conspiracy theorist have this mental condition that isn't classified yet. It stems from there own failures in life and a need to feel important or better then people. It is a self defense mechanism that the mind creates. Just like when we see someone that is better than us it makes us jealous and to make ourselves feel better we despise them. Is it a coincidence all conspiracy theorist are pot heads, losers, lowlife? Its just there minds seeking importance. Thatas why they target the people more than the government by calling us names like "sheep" saying that they are "awake" but we are not.

[BRabbiT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC6RHKPayb0



:lol

[andgar923]

So governments have intelligence agencies, big deal. Seriously, this realization is nothing remarkable or profound. Just look at the stuff being pulled off during the cold war without modern technologies, and it's just common sense to know that today, pretty much everything is possible. I mean come on, all it took to hack into some NASA level type of shit or stuff like that is some dude at his laptot. Doesn't mean much if someone figures out that thousands of employees and a multi-million dollar budget kind of makes things even easier. Come on, that's something to be proud of? Nothing new, nothing special.

That's exactly what I was talking about...propping up non remarkable realizations in order to separate oneself from the masses.

You serious?

If you told people that the government was spying on its own civilians, the scope of how they'd do it years ago most would laugh at you. I would know, I used to get laughed at and dismissed. When we'd tell them about the gov tracking our every movement via our cellphones, spying on us through television sets, computers, knowing our exact whereabout through GPS, satellites that could zoom in on you from outer space and know exactly where you were people laughed. Again this was years ago, people didn't believe the government would either do this or had the capability to do so.

You're saying that this is "non remarkable"? f*ck outta here.

Some people even today can't comprehend it.

The government has flat out lied repeatedly, tried to cover its tracks but then exposed over and over.

[dr.hee]

You serious?

If you told people that the government was spying on its own civilians, the scope of how they'd do it years ago most would laugh at you. I would know, I used to get laughed at and dismissed. When we'd tell them about the gov tracking our every movement via our cellphones, spying on us through television sets, computers, knowing our exact whereabout through GPS, satellites that could zoom in on you from outer space and know exactly where you were people laughed. Again this was years ago, people didn't believe the government would either do this or had the capability to do so.

You're saying that this is "non remarkable"? f*ck outta here.

Some people even today can't comprehend it.

The government has flat out lied repeatedly, tried to cover its tracks but then exposed over and over.

See? That's exactly what I'm talking about. The point you're currently defending isn't you "being right"...but this being something "remarkable".

In other words...the main thing here isn't whether your opinion on surveillance is backed up by facts (which it is of course), but the gratification you're getting from perceiving it as some great intellectual achievement. :oldlol:

I also like the simplisic "we" vs. "them" dichotomy...basically generalizing dismissing remarks by the people you've talked to into being the collective opinion of a population of more than 300 million people.


Some people even today can't comprehend it.

Some people can't comprehend that the earth isn't flat and Jesus didn't ride on dinosaurs. Does this make these realizations any more profound and remarkable?


It's very telling how I even agreed with your general stance on surveillance and intelligence agencies...and you completely ignore this and focus on sustaining the illusion of this being a remarkable realization instead. Doesn't matter to you that I share your opinion, what really matters is that you wanna be proud of your realization. Really shows what this is all about for you, lol. You being right is only a part of it, even more important for you self worth is thinking all the others got it wrong.

[andgar923]

See? That's exactly what I'm talking about. The point you're currently defending isn't you "being right"...but this being something "remarkable".

In other words...the main thing here isn't whether your opinion on surveillance is backed up by facts (which it is of course), but the gratification you're getting from perceiving it as some great intellectual achievement. :oldlol:

I also like the simplisic "we" vs. "them" dichotomy...basically generalizing dismissing remarks by the people you've talked to into the collective opinion of a population of more than 300 million people.



Some people can't comprehend that the earth isn't flat and Jesus didn't ride on dinosaurs. Does this make these things any more profound and remarkable?

"Great intellectual achievement"?

I simply stated that people didn't believe us a decade ago. Im not going around parading anything, simply using anecdotal evidence. Would it be preferable if I didn't use first hand account?

People don't believe what they don't want to believe.

If people don't want to believe in evolution and want to believe dinosaurs were being used as vehicles that's actually making my point for me. People with that same mentality that you alluded to are the same that didn't believe what the gov was capable of doing a decade ago (shit even today). That same mentality is also found in those that immediately discredit everything and anything 'conspiracy theorists' offer.

[dr.hee]

"Great intellectual achievement"?

I simply stated that people didn't believe us a decade ago. Im not going around parading anything, simply using anecdotal evidence. Would it be preferable if I didn't use first hand account?

You called it "remarkable"...


You're saying that this is "non remarkable"? f*ck outta here.

Some people even today can't comprehend it.



...and again, I never said you're wrong. Just not that special. Which seems to be more important to you than being right. You're not defending your opinion (which I agree with), but the value you're assigning to it based on the illusion that your realization is remarkable compared to "them", who can't even comprehend it today :oldlol:

[andgar923]

You called it "remarkable"...




...and again, I never said you're wrong. Just not that special. Which seems to be more important to you than being right. You're not defending your opinion (which I agree with), but the value you're assigning to it based on the illusion that your realization is remarkable compared to "them", who can't even comprehend it today :oldlol:

you originally brought up "remarkable" :confusedshrug:

Even then, this is remarkable revelations whether one knew it was possible or not. It isn't about me being correct, its about the revelations themselves.

Whether you want to think of them as "remarkable" or not, that's up to you. You can't deny the impact the revelations were, some of which we may not fully understand today. We may not even have the full scope of what the NSA is doing, perhaps only a small fragment has been disclosed. Yet even in that sense the revelations have been monumental and significant.

[Draz]

Did that really happen lol Dam

[miller-time]

The government was involved or partially responsible for 9/11.

The problem is that for every point they may have gotten right there are a dozen that are either outright wrong, circumstantial, or too vague. And they never seem to delete these from their rhetoric. They lump in already debunked claims as well as yet unproven claims with ones that could be correct which ultimately hurts their cause and their credibility. Any accurate information they have is sandwiched between loads and loads of shit. It makes the whole thing look foolish and desperate and that is why no one is going to take it seriously.

[niko]

The problem is that for every point they may have gotten right there are a dozen that are either outright wrong, circumstantial, or too vague. And they never seem to delete these from their rhetoric. They lump in already debunked claims as well as yet unproven claims with ones that could be correct which ultimately hurts their cause and their credibility. Any accurate information they have is sandwiched between loads and loads of shit. It makes the whole thing look foolish and desperate and that is why no one is going to take it seriously.
This

[dr.hee]

The problem is that for every point they may have gotten right there are a dozen that are either outright wrong, circumstantial, or too vague. And they never seem to delete these from their rhetoric. They lump in already debunked claims as well as yet unproven claims with ones that could be correct which ultimately hurts their cause and their credibility. Any accurate information they have is sandwiched between loads and loads of shit. It makes the whole thing look foolish and desperate and that is why no one is going to take it seriously.

It's part of the ideology. Instead of looking at claims and evidence on an individual basis, they're dividing the world into "we" and "the undeducated masses" with nothing in between. These concepts only exist in their collective imagination, but they need an outgroup for properly defining the ingroup they're getting self-worth from by patting themselves on the back for stating the obvious.

[IamRAMBO24]

The problem is that for every point they may have gotten right there are a dozen that are either outright wrong, circumstantial, or too vague. And they never seem to delete these from their rhetoric. They lump in already debunked claims as well as yet unproven claims with ones that could be correct which ultimately hurts their cause and their credibility. Any accurate information they have is sandwiched between loads and loads of shit. It makes the whole thing look foolish and desperate and that is why no one is going to take it seriously.

This is just a blatant mischaracterization of the group. Sure some people believe in reptillian aliens or a bunch of other crazy stuff, but like Andgar has pointed out, they are not all wrong.

He was right, not too long ago, one of the craziest conspiracy theory was the idea the government was spying on every aspect of our lives.

They were right.

Naysayers were wrong.

That is a convenient fact we should not ignore because it proves 2 things:

1. Conspiracy theories aren't all nutcases.
2. They got it right.

[brooklynsfinest]

This is just a blatant mischaracterization of the group. Sure some people believe in reptillian aliens or a bunch of other crazy stuff, but like Andgar has pointed out, they are not all wrong.

He was right, not too long ago, one of the craziest conspiracy theory was the idea the government was spying on every aspect of our lives.

They were right.

Naysayers were wrong.

That is a convenient fact we should not ignore because it proves 2 things:

1. Conspiracy theories aren't all nutcases.
2. They got it right.
True dis.

[andgar923]

The problem is that for every point they may have gotten right there are a dozen that are either outright wrong, circumstantial, or too vague. And they never seem to delete these from their rhetoric. They lump in already debunked claims as well as yet unproven claims with ones that could be correct which ultimately hurts their cause and their credibility. Any accurate information they have is sandwiched between loads and loads of shit. It makes the whole thing look foolish and desperate and that is why no one is going to take it seriously.

i agree with this.

But one shouldn't dismiss the things truthers do get right, nor should they ignore some of the things that do make some logical sense.

I side in the middle (although leaning towards the truther side a bit more).

The truthers jump to conclusions, mix up evidence, or are flat out wrong at times. But not all of the information is wrong.
Not all of the theories are idiotic.

The government has shown us the ability to lie, coverup, manipulate, orchestrate a shitload of shit throughout history.

The government has a history of selecting its own interests over the citizens they were sworn to serve. They serve the highest bidders.

So while they themselves may not have been directly involved, they're covering up for those that did.

I mean, it aint like a Saudi was held responsible but instead of attacking Saudi Arabia we attacked two different countries, even tho terrorist funding was also said to come from Saudi Arabia itself. It aint like we protected Saudi royalties and dignitaries even tho it was Saudis that bankrolled and orchestrated the attack (for the most part).

Nawwwwww

[Akrazotile]

This is just a blatant mischaracterization of the group. Sure some people believe in reptillian aliens or a bunch of other crazy stuff, but like Andgar has pointed out, they are not all wrong.

He was right, not too long ago, one of the craziest conspiracy theory was the idea the government was spying on every aspect of our lives.

They were right.

Naysayers were wrong.

That is a convenient fact we should not ignore because it proves 2 things:

1. Conspiracy theories aren't all nutcases.
2. They got it right.


Youre tryin to convince people who are born and bred to take the party line. Youre fightin against nature itself. Its an admirable battle but you wont win. Youre only going to frustrate yourself.

Just have to appreciate that the good stuff about society also comes from the fact that people are the way they are. Anything different and we'd have chaos.

No system is perfect. People gonna people. Of course its scary to think 3,000 people could be killed in your own country and most people are afraid to believe it was anybody but a foreign boogieman, but thats just life. If everybody was alpha, we'd have no society, everyone would literally be battling with each other constantly.

Its damned if you do, damned if you dont.

[niko]

i agree with this.

But one shouldn't dismiss the things truthers do get right, nor should they ignore some of the things that do make some logical sense.

I side in the middle (although leaning towards the truther side a bit more).

The truthers jump to conclusions, mix up evidence, or are flat out wrong at times. But not all of the information is wrong.
Not all of the theories are idiotic.

The government has shown us the ability to lie, coverup, manipulate, orchestrate a shitload of shit throughout history.

The government has a history of selecting its own interests over the citizens they were sworn to serve. They serve the highest bidders.

So while they themselves may not have been directly involved, they're covering up for those that did.

I mean, it aint like a Saudi was held responsible but instead of attacking Saudi Arabia we attacked two different countries, even tho terrorist funding was also said to come from Saudi Arabia itself. It aint like we protected Saudi royalties and dignitaries even tho it was Saudis that bankrolled and orchestrated the attack (for the most part).

Nawwwwww
You're on a different topic. Saying we attacked some other country, blamed the, etc. doesn't mean a huge convoluted stupid conspiracy happened that has 29 parts that make no sense and reads like a 60 year old woman decided she's a writer and wrote a James Bond novel.

Bush seized the moment to push an agenda? Bush even knew it was coming? Something like that....you can argue, but not impossible. We knew it was Saudis, but attacking them woudl kill our economy, so blame someone else? Can totally see it. BUT...

Hundreds of people setting up secret explosives in a building thousands of people are in every day, knocking down extra buildings (WTC 7) in a secondary conspiracy the same day, and not one of these people leaking it now even though it would make them a hero? Ridiculous beyond belief.

Not sure who said it on this thread but one of the problems with this theory is people never come up with a plausible theory, instead they try to get mountains of "evidence" that is basically just twisting tons of tiny unrelated (to each other) facts.

Reminds me of a performance review for a crappy employee. They tell you 1,000 small facts, totally don't mean anything, some true, some not, none really provable. And then say, see, LOOK AT THE MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE.

I've always said that I could believe Bush somehow allowed it to happen, or seized on it to do whatever he wanted. But the thought he planned this thousand of person scheme being the moron he is strikes me as very silly.

[andgar923]

You're on a different topic. Saying we attacked some other country, blamed the, etc. doesn't mean a huge convoluted stupid conspiracy happened that has 29 parts that make no sense and reads like a 60 year old woman decided she's a writer and wrote a James Bond novel.

Bush seized the moment to push an agenda? Bush even knew it was coming? Something like that....you can argue, but not impossible. We knew it was Saudis, but attacking them woudl kill our economy, so blame someone else? Can totally see it. BUT...

Hundreds of people setting up secret explosives in a building thousands of people are in every day, knocking down extra buildings (WTC 7) in a secondary conspiracy the same day, and not one of these people leaking it now even though it would make them a hero? Ridiculous beyond belief.

Not sure who said it on this thread but one of the problems with this theory is people never come up with a plausible theory, instead they try to get mountains of "evidence" that is basically just twisting tons of tiny unrelated (to each other) facts.

Reminds me of a performance review for a crappy employee. They tell you 1,000 small facts, totally don't mean anything, some true, some not, none really provable. And then say, see, LOOK AT THE MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE.

I've always said that I could believe Bush somehow allowed it to happen, or seized on it to do whatever he wanted. But the thought he planned this thousand of person scheme being the moron he is strikes me as very silly.

I was trying to show how the US serves its own interests over the people's. Perhaps it was a bad analogy and it was convoluted. At times Im not too clear on what I want to type exactly, so I'll take the blame for it.

[niko]

I was trying to show how the US serves its own interests over the people's. Perhaps it was a bad analogy and it was convoluted. At times Im not too clear on what I want to type exactly, so I'll take the blame for it.
I agree with you, i just think conspiracy theorists take that as "see, it's possible" when the problem to me is the conspiracies often are just too stupid and impossible in execution.

Unrelated, but i also don't get how once an conspiracy theorist sees a "fact", it gets thrown into a pot that seemingly gets closed. It can never come out. It is true, it is part of the solution, it is indisputable even if it makes the remainder of the "conspiracy" seem silly. Like WTC 7. It makes no sense as part of anything. It would be like me plotting to kill you, and kicking over one of your plants too just because. But it is a huge part of the conspiracy.

[andgar923]

I've always said that I could believe Bush somehow allowed it to happen, or seized on it to do whatever he wanted. But the thought he planned this thousand of person scheme being the moron he is strikes me as very silly.

I highly doubt Bush or any president is orchestrating just about anything, specially something that probably took time of careful planning to orchestrate.

Bush may not have even been completely aware of the attacks. Perhaps they kept him completely in the dark :confusedshrug:

Perhaps 20 years from now evidence will be leaked :confusedshrug:

There's been reports of intel leaking, other spy and military agencies having intel, mysterious deaths, etc.etc. But naturally, whenever some of this comes to light people dismiss it.

[cuad]

lmao, that reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWLGH0VHUVs&t=42m

[MavsSuperFan]

I wish all truthers were placed on a cia disposition matrix.

Its so dumb. Al qaeda even took credit for the attack. They claimed the attack and are proud of the attack. In their minds the attack was revenge for American foreign policy in the Middle east. It was revenge for supporting/installing brutal dictators (Eg. Mubarak, Saud Family, the shah, sheikh mohammed, etc), Overthrowing democratically elected governments, and military and financial support for israel.

I cant believe so many americans were amazed that people wanted to attack us. We are that huge guy at the bar that is kind of an asshole sometimes. and 1 day we got sucker punched.
There was an al Qaeda commander that was pissed that crazy people in america were claiming the us government committed the attacks. He was like wtf that was our hard work.

Also the evidence the truthers give is so dumb.

1. the towers must have been brought down in a controlled demolition.
so many problems with this idiocy
- Many experts have already stated how the towers came down was expected. The jet fuel from the planes caused a huge flame. Over time the heat weakened the metal struts and the tower collapsed.
2. the us government must have been complacent in the attacks and would have shot down the planes if they werent.
- no the us air force is not constantly on standby to shoot down commercial planes.
3. the project for a new american century document calling for a catalyzing event similar to pearl harbor to stir the american people proves that the Bush Admin planned 9/11.
-if there were plans for 9/11 it would have leaked by now. the bush admin couldnt hide anything.

[MavsSuperFan]

Youre tryin to convince people who are born and bred to take the party line. Youre fightin against nature itself. Its an admirable battle but you wont win. Youre only going to frustrate yourself.

Just have to appreciate that the good stuff about society also comes from the fact that people are the way they are. Anything different and we'd have chaos.

No system is perfect. People gonna people. Of course its scary to think 3,000 people could be killed in your own country and most people are afraid to believe it was anybody but a foreign boogieman, but thats just life. If everybody was alpha, we'd have no society, everyone would literally be battling with each other constantly.

Its damned if you do, damned if you dont.
Oldskool baller stop being so beta and making alts

[KevinNYC]

I don't believe everything the truthers spew, but......

Some of us have been warning about the NSA and other shit for decades but were called paranoid tinfoil lunatics.

The government was involved or partially responsible for 9/11.

Either by covering up or by aiding to a degree.

There's far too many conveniences and obstructions for them not to be responsible to some degree.

The gov has shown repeatedly that it doesn't care about its citizens, it has shown repeatedly that it is willing to do what it wants when it wants because most people won't care (even if they do question).

Let's be honest, even if 98% of the population believe that the gov orchestrated the 9/11 attacks what are they gonna do? march outside and answer polls? How is the government gonna respond? by pretending to be forthcoming and make tons of promises which they won't fulfill, just to smooth things over.

At the end of the day, truthers aint gonna do shit. Even then it doesn't matter if the truthers are 100% correct, it won't change a thing.

So you're one of those reasonable truthers? Not those crazy nutjobs over there?

[tontoz]

The conspiracy nuts don't even try to make a coherent argument. All they say is "watch this vid" ad infinitum. When one vid gets exposed as a fraud they post another and another.

They are not capable of making a sensible defense of their position.

[KevinNYC]

True dis.

Actually not true dis.

If you think someone in the government knows who andgar923 is and knows he had over 14,000 posts and ISH, you're kidding yourself and vastly inflating your importance.

Can they target and track and spy on folks? Yes, they have that capability. Can they do this in bulk so that they know what hundreds of millions of individuals are personally doing? No.

How many NSA guys do you think are assigned to ISH? Do you think some one reads every game thread? Know who all the Kobe stans are? How many people would it take to read every post on this message board? Do you think they work a standard 8 hour day or they have a team of at least three dedicated to ISH?

Do you think they let everyone in the goverment know their plans? Or do some of the new people still care about their fellow Americans too much. What pay grade do you have to be to before you stop caring about citizens? G-9? Higher?

[IamRAMBO24]

The conspiracy nuts don't even try to make a coherent argument. All they say is "watch this vid" ad infinitum. When one vid gets exposed as a fraud they post another and another.

They are not capable of making a sensible defense of their position.

It doesn't matter dumbsh*t. Fact of the matter is there is a conspiracy theory "The government is spying on us via cell phones, internet, sattelites, entertainment, etc." This was one of the most outlandish conspiracies; everybody shunned it and said this was bullsh*t.

Guess what?

They were right and you were wrong.

You guys can't write off every conspiracy with your bullsh*t excuses anymore. I'm not saying you should accept them all, what I'm saying is they are worth a look no matter how antithetical you are against them.

I mean, if one is 100% factual, and there was such a huge disbelief when it was first presented, how many of them are right that we don't know of? It goes to reason, the possibility of it could be right should at least give it a proper analysis.

You're acting like all conspiracy theorists believe in whatever is thrown at them; in fact, that's not the case; it's really you guys who believe whatever is thrown at you.

Again, they got it right, and you got it wrong, so man up and admit there is some worth to what they are saying (the ones that are legit).

[KevinNYC]

Found the answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBcNpXmr-Ps


On related note there is now something known as the CSI effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSI_effect). This is where jurors expect the same intense amount of forensic evidence as happen on TV. They are more like to discount circumstantial evidence because they are conditioned by TV to expect absolute scientific proof of guilt.

[tontoz]

It doesn't matter dumbsh*t. Fact of the matter is there is a conspiracy theory "The government is spying on us via cell phones, internet, sattelites, entertainment, etc." This was one of the most outlandish conspiracies; everybody shunned it and said this was bullsh*t.

Guess what?

They were right and you were wrong.

You guys can't write off every conspiracy with your bullsh*t excuses anymore. I'm not saying you should accept them all, what I'm saying is they are worth a look no matter how antithetical you are against them.

I mean, if one is 100% factual, and there was such a huge disbelief when it was first presented, how many of them are right? It goes to reason, the possibility of it could be right should at least give it a proper analysis.

You're acting like all conspiracy theorists believe in whatever is thrown at them; in fact, that's not the case; it's really you guys who believe whatever is thrown at you.

Again, they got it right, and you got it wrong, so man up and admit there is some worth to what they are saying (the ones that are legit).



I was talking about 911 dumbshit. That is what the thread is about dumbshit. I don't think i have ever posted anything about NSA surveillance dumbshit, other than criticizing their pre-911 failures.

[tontoz]

Hey buddy, how's your aunt doing? You know, the one who works at the pentagon and was working that very day.


How would you even remember that? She retired a few years after 911.

Too much drama in that family. Her kids/grandkids probably make her wish she was still working.

[IamRAMBO24]

Actually not true dis.

If you think someone in the government knows who andgar923 is and knows he had over 14,000 posts and ISH, you're kidding yourself and vastly inflating your importance.

Can they target and track and spy on folks? Yes, they have that capability. Can they do this in bulk so that they know what hundreds of millions of individuals are personally doing? No.

How many NSA guys do you think are assigned to ISH? Do you think some one reads every game thread? Know who all the Kobe stans are? How many people would it take to read every post on this message board? Do you think they work a standard 8 hour day or they have a team of at least three dedicated to ISH?

Do you think they let everyone in the goverment know their plans? Or do some of the new people still care about their fellow Americans too much. What pay grade do you have to be to before you stop caring about citizens? G-9? Higher?

You're so naive. They track your searches, they track what you buy, they track each and everyone of your posts and link it to your ip, which can be link to your email, etc.

Stop downplaying what they are capable of.

[tontoz]

You're so naive. They track your searches, they track what you buy, they track each and everyone of your posts and link it to your ip, which can be link to your email, etc.

Stop downplaying what they are capable of.


Being capable of doing something and actually doing it are two different things. Actually doing it requires manpower, something i wouldn't expect you to understand.

[IamRAMBO24]

Being capable of doing something and actually doing it are two different things. Actually doing it requires manpower, something i wouldn't expect you to understand.

WTF are you talking about? They have computers that do all the work for them. It is a fact everything you do on the internet is being recorded and analyzed.

[tontoz]

WTF are you talking about? They have computers that do all the work for them. It is a fact everything you do on the internet is being recorded and analyzed.


And who is analyzing the computer reports? If nobody actually looks at them then why would they even matter?

[IamRAMBO24]

And who is analyzing the computer reports? If nobody actually looks at them then why would they even matter?

You're so naive.

:facepalm

[tontoz]

You're so naive.

:facepalm



Like i said, conspiracy nuts can't make a coherent argument. Just stick to posting vids. :lol

[Raymone]

I've yet to encounter an intelligent, mentally balanced conspiracy theorist. Online or off.

[aj1987]

I've yet to encounter an intelligent, mentally balanced conspiracy theorist. Online or off.
Good luck with that.

[step_back]

Everything is open to questioning. You can't blame people for having conspiracy theories. It seems many of you are short sighted. The Allied forces went into Iraq because of "strong" evidence of WMD's which didn't exist so I'd say it's perfectly fine to question the legitimacy of the people in charge of the government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASUAEZdb-dw

[tontoz]

Everything is open to questioning. You can't blame people for having conspiracy theories. It seems many of you are short sighted. The Allied forces went into Iraq because of "strong" evidence of WMD's which didn't exist so I'd say it's perfectly fine to question the legitimacy of the people in charge of the government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASUAEZdb-dw


I agree that questioning them is fine. Their own inspector that they hired to check for WMDs said they weren't there.

But that has nothing to do with 911. They didn't go into Iraq because of 911. As you said their main reason was supposedly WMDs. But lying about WMDs is a far cry from mass murder.

And we actually have hard evidence that they lied about WMDs, which is a relatively small conspiracy relative to the 911 conspiracy theory.

[step_back]

I agree that questioning them is fine. Their own inspector that they hired to check for WMDs said they weren't there.

But that has nothing to do with 911. They didn't go into Iraq because of 911. As you said their main reason was supposedly WMDs. But lying about WMDs is a far cry from mass murder.

And we actually have hard evidence that they lied about WMDs, which is a relatively small conspiracy relative to the 911 conspiracy theory.

Over a million civilians have died in the Iraq war. I don't take that lightly. I also used the Iraq war as an example of why you should question the legitimacy of what the government tells you. Personally I don't think 9/11 was an inside job but years after the attack the government hardly dealt with the issues being asked with transparency.

[tontoz]

Over a million civilians have died in the Iraq war. I don't take that lightly. I also used the Iraq war as an example of why you should question the legitimacy of what the government tells you. Personally I don't think 9/11 was an inside job but years after the attack the government hardly dealt with the issues being asked with transparency.


I agree that i should have said "mass murder of its own civilians".

And i agree that they haven't been transparent. They probably don't want people to know that they should have been able to prevent 911, but didn't because of sheer incompetence.

I think the Bush Administration was akin to a major natural disaster. Their incompetence is well documented which is why i have to wonder how people can actually believe that they successfully pulled of the 911 attacks.

[step_back]

I agree that i should have said "mass murder of its own civilians".

And i agree that they haven't been transparent. They probably don't want people to know that they should have been able to prevent 911, but didn't because of sheer incompetence.

I think the Bush Administration was akin to a major natural disaster. Their incompetence is well documented which is why i have to wonder how people can actually believe that they successfully pulled of the 911 attacks.

This pretty much sums up how I feel about 9/11. I don't think it was an inside job. A huge blunder in national defence that would have cost the Bush administration their jobs which is why they kept quiet.

I also believe had it been a conspiracy it would have involved too many parties for it not to get leaked to the press. Speaking in terms of it being an operation it would have been incredibly structured over months if not years of planning.


The reason why I have this stance is because blindly following every word your government tells you can result in a much bigger problem. I'm definitely not implying that America is in any way the same but Germany blindly followed the Nazi party and listened to their every word for years which led to the bloodiest conflict in world history.

[MavsSuperFan]

Over a million civilians have died in the Iraq war. I don't take that lightly. I also used the Iraq war as an example of why you should question the legitimacy of what the government tells you. Personally I don't think 9/11 was an inside job but years after the attack the government hardly dealt with the issues being asked with transparency.
The vast majority of that is sunnis killing shia and the shia killing sunnis and everybody killing the kurds

[step_back]

The vast majority of that is sunnis killing shia and the shia killing sunnis and everybody killing the kurds

The first 50 bombs from Allied forces that were launched/dropped missed their targets and hit civilians.

Don't be in denial. I understand that the Allied forces don't want to kill or injure citizens however it happens in all wars and currently 90% of deaths in Iraq over the last 10 years have been civilians. To say that the vast majority is civil fighting just sounds like successful propaganda.


P.S Notice how I say Allied Forces. My country is just as responsible.

[DonDadda59]

Everything is open to questioning.

Yes, it should be encouraged too. But when the 'answer' is some nonsensical and logistically impossible scenario then don't be surprised if people don't take you seriously.

The Iraq war and the reasons for it were bullshit, many people knew that from the jump. The 9/11 conspiracy theorists and their claims are even worse cases of pure bull dung.

[ace23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC6RHKPayb0

I know it had to be one of the posters here. Looking at you Bagelred...
Iamrambo making his presence felt.

[KevinNYC]

You're so naive. They track your searches, they track what you buy, they track each and everyone of your posts and link it to your ip, which can be link to your email, etc.

Stop downplaying what they are capable of.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. And your gullibility is showing.

They can do that for targets. Targets.

To do that for general population would take exponentially more cpu power and manhours than the entire US government combined.

You really think they are individually tracking everyone of the 150,000,000 people who go to Google each month? The 130,000,000 people who go to Yahoo? The 100,000,000 on YouTube every month? They know who did every one of the 100 Billion Google searches per month?

[Akrazotile]

You simply don't know what you're talking about. And your gullibility is showing.

They can do that for targets. Targets.

To do that for general population would take exponentially more cpu power and manhours than the entire US government combined.

You really think they are individually tracking everyone of the 150,000,000 people who go to Google each month? The 130,000,000 people who go to Yahoo? The 100,000,000 on YouTube every month? They know who did every one of the 100 Billion Google searches per month?


The question isn't how many people do they do it to on a daily basis, the question is should they be permitted to have free reign to do it at their own discretion? The answer SHOULD be no.

Of course, if a Republican were in office, your answer would also be no. But since a Democrat is in office, your answer is yes.

You are a selfish party-monger, because Democrats pay your "disability" (too fat to bother working) welfare and so they've bought your loyalty. At least give full disclosure dude. Don't purvey a facade of intelligence and objectivity.

[step_back]

Yes, it should be encouraged too. But when the 'answer' is some nonsensical and logistically impossible scenario then don't be surprised if people don't take you seriously.

The Iraq war and the reasons for it were bullshit, many people knew that from the jump. The 9/11 conspiracy theorists and their claims are even worse cases of pure bull dung.

I agree, but not all of the theories are nonsensical. I'm not agreeing with them but some do raise some interesting issues.

Like I said people should question everything. However there is always this backlash and subsequent pounce of the masses if somebody treads on a subject they don't feel should be talked about. Which in my eyes is worse.

[IInvented]

Blindly believing fellow retards who make conspiracy videos with zero sources is retarded yes
phucking idiot

[KevinNYC]

The question isn't how many people do they do it to on a daily basis, the question is should they be permitted to have free reign to do it at their own discretion? The answer SHOULD be no.

The NSA doesn't have free reign to target Americans. And the thesis was that I, myself was being targeted.


Of course, if a Republican were in office, your answer would also be no. But since a Democrat is in office, your answer is yes.

Except they still don't have free reign to target Americans. And it's clear the NSA has far greater oversight than it did in 2005.


You are a selfish party-monger, because Democrats pay your "disability" (too fat to bother working) welfare and so they've bought your loyalty.
Please tell us the last time you earned wages. Waiting for your full disclosure. I'm pretty confident I will pay more in taxes this year, than you have earned.


At least give full disclosure dude. Don't purvey a facade of intelligence and objectivity. You really sound dumbest when you're trying to look smart.

[miller-time]

This is just a blatant mischaracterization of the group. Sure some people believe in reptillian aliens or a bunch of other crazy stuff, but like Andgar has pointed out, they are not all wrong.

It isn't a blatant mischaracterization, it is a generalization. I understand not everyone in the group believes the same things. But by an large the majority of the content providers do keep peddling the same crap. I'm not even talking about the crazier reptilian people, just the more overzealous website and YouTube contributors.

[tontoz]

Please tell us the last time you earned wages. Waiting for your full disclosure. I'm pretty confident I will pay more in taxes this year, than you have earned.

You really sound dumbest when you're trying to look smart.






http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/smack-1.gif (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/tontoz/media/smack-1.gif.html)

[andgar923]

The NSA uses information collected from companies such as telecoms, internet providers, Microsoft, Apple, yahoo, Google, Samsung, LG, etc.etc. etc. they don't need to actually do the heavy work themselves.

They also contract companies to do some of their work for them.

So to think the NSA does all of this on their own and needs an entire island to process and store all of it is very misleading.

[KevinNYC]

The NSA uses information collected from companies such as telecoms, internet providers, Microsoft, Apple, yahoo, Google, Samsung, LG, etc.etc. etc. they don't need to actually do the heavy work themselves.

They also contract companies to do some of their work for them.

So to think the NSA does all of this on their own and needs an entire island to process and store all of it is very misleading.

I don't think you understand how the process works. The telcoms don't analyze anything. They just do a file transfer.

By the way Google just got permission to publish their FISA requests
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-trnSw3iC6eE/Uu_alz42-yI/AAAAAAAAOAY/Yc18_7fJIV4/s1600/Screen+Shot+2014-02-03+at+9.59.12+AM.png

The upshot is surveillance of the general US population is not occurring.

Here's the other tech companies.
[QUOTE]In the most recent period for which data is available, January to June 2013

[IcanzIIravor]

The first 50 bombs from Allied forces that were launched/dropped missed their targets and hit civilians.

Don't be in denial. I understand that the Allied forces don't want to kill or injure citizens however it happens in all wars and currently 90% of deaths in Iraq over the last 10 years have been civilians. To say that the vast majority is civil fighting just sounds like successful propaganda.


P.S Notice how I say Allied Forces. My country is just as responsible.

The vast majority has been Sunni vs Shia and foreign fighters coming in. You can certainly directly lay the initial numbers at the hands of the allies, but they are still bombing, kidnapping and killing each other now. I don't think we should have gone in there and if people remember, it was the NSA actually leading the way into leaking information that damaged the Bush administrations charge to war. I worked at the NSA and there was no love for the Iraq war. The focus was on Afghanistan and AQ.

[Lamar Doom]

Look what you f*cking started Don, LOOK AT IT.




http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QnsjpXeq9V8/UJMCg1u96PI/AAAAAAAAAYU/nqKUMAPb4FY/s1600/MoePolygraph1.jpg



My favorite lie detector related link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYvHpVwIqYY)





.

[travelingman]

You're so naive.

:facepalm

Don't be so dismissive, Hamburger Philosopher. He made a valid point. You should counter it.

#KFCheavythoughts

[ihoopallday]

I recently did some research on Edward Snowdan. Mind = blown. :eek: I read he has top secret info on the 9/11 attacks. Honestly, I don't even know how this country could handle that type of sensitive information.

[brownmamba00]

The vast majority of that is sunnis killing shia and the shia killing sunnis and everybody killing the kurds
:facepalm

iraqis would laugh at this

[CeltsGarlic]

Look what you f*cking started Don, LOOK AT IT.

My favorite lie detector related link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYvHpVwIqYY)


cant handle it :roll: