Should rings count if you don't win finals MVP

[rlsmooth775]

I don't think you should use rings in a argument over which player is better unless he was the best player on his team.

[Connor B]

I agree. Tim Duncan's ring in 2007 shouldn't mean anything because Tony Parker won MVP. Pau's ring in 2010? Pointless. Ray Allen's in 2013? All he contributed was just the most clutch three in basketball history.

[Inferno]

Dwyane Wade averaged 23/6/5 in 2012. Should that ring not count because LBJ won the FMVP?

[moe94]

If you win a championship and you're not at least the 3rd best player, they should take you out back and off you. I mean, why even live?

[Lebron23]

I value Finals MVP over side kick rings (2nd and 3rd scoring option).

[moe94]

I value Finals MVP over side kick rings (2nd and 3rd scoring option).

Do you also breathe air and walk with your legs? I mean, you're so controversial.

[Inferno]

Do you also breathe air and walk with your legs? I mean, you're so controversial.

:roll:

[Warfan]

U shouldn't really use ring arguments, but u cant completely discredit a ring just because they didn't win fmvp, u have to look at the context (how well they played, how much load did they carry for their team etc.)

[I.R.Beast]

rings shouldnt count when your team is too stacked...

[Warfan]

Do you also breathe air and walk with your legs? I mean, you're so controversial.

:roll:

[fiddy]

MVPs shouldnt count if you're on ROIDs

[redboy]

I value Finals MVP over side kick rings (2nd and 3rd scoring option).
wow i bet you're not biased at all

[JT123]

Dwyane Wade averaged 23/6/5 in 2012. Should that ring not count because LBJ won the FMVP?
Wade only shot 43 percent in that series though. :confusedshrug:

[Inferno]

Wade only shot 43 percent in that series though. :confusedshrug:

Was still the 2nd best player on the team :confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

wow i bet you're not biased at all


Wth the ring logic. John Havlicek would be the 2nd greatest player of all time. He's an 8th NBA Champion and a former Finals MVP. He could have been a 2x NBA Finals MVP. He was one of their best finals performer pre 1969.

Havlicek with 8 > Jordan with 6.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Wth the ring logic. John Havlicek would be the 2nd greatest player of all time. He's an 8th NBA Champion and a former Finals MVP. He could have been a 2x NBA Finals MVP. He was one of their best finals performer pre 1969.

Havlicek with 8 > Jordan with 6.
you are extremely gay

[fiddy]

you are extremely gay
He has iit n his username, location and avy

[redboy]

Wth the ring logic. John Havlicek would be the 2nd greatest player of all time. He's an 8th NBA Champion and a former Finals MVP. He could have been a 2x NBA Finals MVP. He was one of their best finals performer pre 1969.

Havlicek with 8 > Jordan with 6.
the way you post is so mechanical

just like lebron's half court game

[ImKobe]

So, Billups is as good as Wade because he won the FMVP in 2004?

Do we not count the games players play to even make the Finals in the first place, like Kobe's rampages against the Western teams over the years? Do you really think Tony Parker was more valuable than Tim Duncan in 2007? Do you think Pierce > KG because he won the FMVP?

[JT123]

He has in his username, location and avy
Don't make me report you for harassment. :coleman:

[Lebron23]

you are extremely gay


Havlicek was a very good player. Watch some of his games on youtube, and look at his overall productions during his prime.

[JT123]

So, Billups is as good as Wade because he won the FMVP in 2004?
Both players only managed to win one Alpha dog ring.:confusedshrug:

[moe94]

Both players only managed to win one Alpha dog ring.:confusedshrug:

Billups was the alpha of those teams? Billups was hilariously replaceable, if you think about it.

[b1imtf]

Do you also breathe air and walk with your legs? I mean, you're so controversial.
:roll: :roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

Billups was the alpha of those teams? Billups was hilariously replaceable, if you think about it.

There was no real "alpha" on that team, but because they required so much unselfish play... it was wise for the Pistons to keep Billups for as long as they did.

[T_L_P]

There shouldn't be a rule, and context should be applied.

I consider Parker's 2003 ring inferior to Pippen's 1991 ring, for example.

[Smoke117]

Before Scottie Pippen hurt his back in game 5 of the 98 finals everyone had him pegged as the FMVP. They don't win vs the Jazz if not for Pippen, so if his ring doesn't matter than neither does MJ's in 98 and frankly 97.

[TheMarkMadsen]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BESnCrgCAAEHKku.jpg:largehttp://oi51.tinypic.com/2mq3v5i.jpg

[moe94]

What are the percentages, Mark?

[Akrazotile]

What are the percentages, Mark?


Shaq carried 100% of the team.

[fiddy]

What are the percentages, Mark?
55% to 47%, whats the point of comparing a SG to a C?

[TheMarkMadsen]

What are the percentages, Mark?

you do realize they were undefeated through the first 3 rounds at this point

[Akrazotile]

55% to 47%, whats the point of comparing a SG to a C?


Who got the other team in foul trouble more effectively?

[aj1987]

you do realize they were undefeated through the first 3 rounds at this point
Why did you stop with the first three rounds? Include the Finals.

Are people still using the "Shaq carried Kobe" argument? :facepalm Just because Shaq was better than Kobe doesn't mean that he carried him. Both were crucial pieces.

[moe94]

you do realize they were undefeated through the first 3 rounds at this point

No, because I started watching ball in 2013.

Do you consider Kobe 1b to Shaq's 1a?

[fiddy]

No, because I started watching ball in 2013.

Do you consider Kobe 1b to Shaq's 1a?
Arent you born in 94? If my assumption is not wrong you were 7 at that time

[moe94]

Arent you born in 94? If my assumption is not wrong you were 7 at that time

94 isn't my birth date, but a reference to a song. Believe me, I witnessed the early 00s with coherence. :biggums:

[ThePhantomCreep]

I'd take 2001 Kobe over quite a few "lead dog champions", including the 2010 version of himself. He was utterly dominant.

[riseagainst]

people are so narrow minded when it comes to these things. Just because Kobe didn't the FMVP, his rings in 2001 and 2002 are void?

look at the numbers he put up. Those are what 1st options put up.

:oldlol:

[ProfessorMurder]

Unless you're the finals MVP you've got empty stats.

/thread

[MichaelCorleone]

No it shouldn't.

[BlackVVaves]

Do you also breathe air and walk with your legs? I mean, you're so controversial.

Post of the year candidate :roll: :roll: :roll:

[no pun intended]

Do you also breathe air and walk with your legs? I mean, you're so controversial.
lmao

[MichaelCorleone]

To me Kobe has 2 rings.

[Vienceslav]

To me Kobe has 2 rings.
You are a ****ing Kobetard, he has 1 in 2010 Gasol should have been FMVP.

[MichaelCorleone]

You are a ****ing Kobetard, he has 1 in 2010 Gasol should have been FMVP.
True. Sorry I forgot.

[ThePhantomCreep]

True. Sorry I forgot.
A real wordsmith, this one.

[coin24]

You are a ****ing Kobetard, he has 1 in 2010 Gasol should have been FMVP.
:roll: :roll:

Go back and rewatch the series, please tell me how great pau played on the road :lol :facepalm

Kobe was blatantly FMVP in 2009 and 10..



Also bran gets -2 for his shitty performance in 2011, cost wade a FMVP

[MichaelCorleone]

:roll: :roll:

Go back and rewatch the series, please tell me how great pau played on the road :lol :facepalm

Kobe was blatantly FMVP in 2009 and 10..
Cool. So 2 rings for Kobe.:cheers:

[Bandito]

They shouldn't count if you are ugly as fcvk. Sorry Lebron fans...

[MichaelCorleone]

They shouldn't count if you are ugly as fcvk. Sorry Lebron fans...
:lol Kobe fans resorting to this.

[Magic 32]

Do you also breathe air and walk with your legs? I mean, you're so controversial.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1773163/it-s-over-o.gif

[Magic 32]

http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss135/tp9bd3/Tony%20PARKER/cgyu.jpg

http://thecensus.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/kobe.gif

[sbw19]

http://abload.de/img/caron1zsvf.jpg

[cos88]

such an embarassing thread :facepalm it should be deleted before other people outside see it

[retaxis]

:roll: :roll:

Go back and rewatch the series, please tell me how great pau played on the road :lol :facepalm

Kobe was blatantly FMVP in 2009 and 10..



Also bran gets -2 for his shitty performance in 2011, cost wade a FMVP
Doesn't life get repetitive and lonely when you repeat the same thing for so many years? It seems as if people who regurgitate crap over and over again never end up growing up.

[coin24]

Doesn't life get repetitive and lonely when you repeat the same thing for so many years? It seems as if people who regurgitate crap over and over again never end up growing up.

Doesn't logging into your 10 accounts get repetitive and lonely?:confusedshrug:

[I<3NBA]

should sex count if you have a tiny dick?

[NumberSix]

Or how about we just don't use team awards to prop up individuals?

[christian1923]

81 > Finals Mvp

[ripthekik]

Or how about we just don't use team awards to prop up individuals?
what should we use? hairline?

[freshperry]

My goodness this has to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard on this forum.... With somethinf like "whos the greatest of all time?" There is no definitive asnwer therefore people develop their own criteria to determine who they think is the best player. Finals mvp is ONE of the criteria not the ONLY so stop spitting out nonsense like "with that logic" seriously ponder this question before you post again. All crows are black but is everything black a crow? This is the kind of logic you are trying to use to justify your argument....

[Mr Exlax]

Me personally, if I'm comparing 2 players and somebody else brings up rings then I only look at the FMVP. I don't ever bring up rings though. It's a team accomplishment.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dwyane Wade averaged 23/6/5 in 2012. Should that ring not count because LBJ won the FMVP?

Of course not. Or would you say Kobe won 2 titles on his own and Wade won 2 himself?? WHATS WRONG WITH YOU??? BIASED TARD!

KOBE'S CHIPS 09/10 >>> WADE'S 2012!


JEEZUS YOU NEED TO RATE THEM CORRECTLY, WHAT, YOU GONNA GIVE HIM FULL CREDIT FOR 2012?





This whole "count/not count" Shit is ridiculous, they ALL COUNT, THEY'RE ALL members of the title team... you simply rate them based on how much weight they pulled...

FMVP doesnt indicate if your the best player anyway. Of the finals, but not the season. Heck, I would have never given Magic 80 fmvp, willis reed those two, duncan 2005, etc.

[Lebron23]

Me personally, if I'm comparing 2 players and somebody else brings up rings then I only look at the FMVP. I don't ever bring up rings though. It's a team accomplishment.


This

Hakeem and David Robinson both have 2 Championship rings, but Hakeem is rank higher because he's a 2x NBA Finals MVP.

[JT123]

Let's just tell it how it is. No one respects Kobe's first 3 rings, and rightfully so. While Lebron went through years of heartache, sweat, and tears to win his first ring, all Kobe had to do was jump on the back of the most dominant Center of all time. Some players (Lebron) have to start at the bottom and work their way to the top, while other players (Kobe) have everything handed to them from day one. :confusedshrug:

[ImKobe]

Let's just tell it how it is. No one respects Kobe's first 3 rings, and rightfully so. While Lebron went through years of heartache, sweat, and tears to win his first ring, all Kobe had to do was jump on the back of the most dominant Center of all time. Some players (Lebron) have to start at the bottom and work their way to the top, while other players (Kobe) have everything handed to them from day one. :confusedshrug:

Maybe you should go and watch the games before you post on this matter.

And Kobe would be nowhere without his work ethic, he's one of the hardest workers in NBA history, as said by all the other players around the league and the trainers.

And I love how people discredit Kobe during the threepeat era

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg252/jorgepadilla23/SKnFQ.png

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTgrQyDCYAAWb-J.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BESnCrgCAAEHKku.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olqGddqhhHw

He averaged 27 6 5 on 51/55/81 in the 2002 Finals, but let's take that ring away from his resume, shall we?

[I<3NBA]

Or how about we just don't use team awards to prop up individuals?
or how about we don't lionize individuals in a team sport?

fkn retards.

srsly. it's no one's individual win. it's a team win. including the FO, the coaching staff, even the fkng trainers and shit.

all of you here *********ing to individuals in a fkng team sport are really retarded.

[ripthekik]

This

Hakeem and David Robinson both have 2 Championship rings, but Hakeem is rank higher because he's a 2x NBA Finals MVP.
no, it's because Hakeem had less help. Great example where you showed how a player's teammates will make a huge difference in judging players.

If a player wins with more help, their rings are worth less. Hakeem and DRob proved this. Thanks, lebron23.

[Mr Exlax]

This

Hakeem and David Robinson both have 2 Championship rings, but Hakeem is rank higher because he's a 2x NBA Finals MVP.

Bad example because Hakeem was clearly better. He'd be better than DRob with no rings IMO.

[ArbitraryWater]

Maybe you should go and watch the games before you post on this matter.

And Kobe would be nowhere without his work ethic, he's one of the hardest workers in NBA history, as said by all the other players around the league and the trainers.

And I love how people discredit Kobe during the threepeat era

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg252/jorgepadilla23/SKnFQ.png

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTgrQyDCYAAWb-J.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BESnCrgCAAEHKku.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olqGddqhhHw

He averaged 27 6 5 on 51/55/81 in the 2002 Finals, but let's take that ring away from his resume, shall we?


3 pics, all resemble the same thing. the first 3 rounds of the 2001 playoffs... WOW OMGZ YEAH KOBE WAS SO GREATS!!! 2001, nobody could possibly replace the Lakers sweeping their way to the finals, right? 2000, when kobe posted legit role player numbers. 2002, shot 43%? for 27 pts?

Damn LeBron could never fill that hole! :biggums:

If ppl would acknowledge those 3 for Kobe, he'd be top 3-5.. but nobody has him there, they rank him at the edge of the top 10/outside top 10...

[Magic 32]

3 pics, all resemble the same thing. the first 3 rounds of the 2001 playoffs... WOW OMGZ YEAH KOBE WAS SO GREATS!!! 2001, nobody could possibly replace the Lakers sweeping their way to the finals, right? 2000, when kobe posted legit role player numbers. 2002, shot 43%? for 27 pts?

Damn LeBron could never fill that hole! :biggums:

If ppl would acknowledge those 3 for Kobe, he'd be top 3-5.. but nobody has him there, they rank him at the edge of the top 10/outside top 10...

Shaq and Lebron would not get past the 2002 Spurs.

Shaq was limited by his toe problem, so Kobe took over and just destroyed the Spurs on the road (with Bruce Bowen defending him):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8HgzXLQCTM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPWvJ2wr44

I don't think Lebron did this well against Bowen in 2007.

[Bush4Ever]

You should weigh them according to the player's overall level of performance and role on the team.

The problem is that most people cannot think in continuous terms. Rather, they default to discrete labels like "lead dog" or "sidekick".

Not all lead dogs have the same degree of importance, nor are all lead dogs performing at the same level in absolute terms.

Compare Duncan in 2007 vs. Jordan in 1991 for example. While both were the best player on the team, Jordan was clearly more critical to his team's success and he also performed better on the whole. So Jordan's ring was somewhat more meaningful than that particular Duncan ring. You could even compare Duncan 2003 to Duncan 2007 to see the same idea play out.

[ImKobe]

3 pics, all resemble the same thing. the first 3 rounds of the 2001 playoffs... WOW OMGZ YEAH KOBE WAS SO GREATS!!! 2001, nobody could possibly replace the Lakers sweeping their way to the finals, right? 2000, when kobe posted legit role player numbers. 2002, shot 43%? for 27 pts?

Damn LeBron could never fill that hole! :biggums:

If ppl would acknowledge those 3 for Kobe, he'd be top 3-5.. but nobody has him there, they rank him at the edge of the top 10/outside top 10...

So, only the Finals series counts, especially when the Finals opponent was so weak that all the Lakers had to do was dump it to Shaq every time down? Did you even watch the NBA back then? Kobe was the true leader of that team since 2001 and everyone in LA knows that. West had the 3 best teams of the league. The Lakers, Spurs and Queens, the WCF were the real NBA Finals during that time, and Kobe dominated every time. 2001 WCF 33 7 7 on 51% FG, do you really think the Lakers would have won 3 straight without his production against the Western teams, where you had guys like Tim Duncan and C-Webb match Shaq's production?

Shaq had his best series in the Finals, because the Eastern Conference had no one to throw at him, no one to make him work on the defensive end, while Kobe was busy guarding guys like Reggie,AI and Kidd.

People are so disrespectful, acting like Kobe was a non-factor, like he didn't carry the Lakers on the offensive end when Shaq was a liability in the 4th quarter. 2000 WCF Game 7, Lakers are down double digits against the Blazers in the 4th quarter, Kobe goes on a tear and throws the greatest alley-oop of all-time to Shaq to seal the victory and take Lakers to their first Finals since Magic in 91, a near triple double in that game with 4 blocks. But those are role player numbers, right? Especially when Shaq only had 18 points and 9 rebounds in the biggest game of the season. Also remember the Game 4 of the Finals, Shaq fouls out and Kobe carries the Lakers to victory in OT, but Shaq carried Kobe, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzmRk15I7g4

Shaq was great when it came to putting up fantasy numbers, he did that long before joining Los Angeles, he was doing the same thing in Orlando, but he couldn't beat an aging Hakeem on his last legs because he didn't have Kobe.

[Black and White]

This

Hakeem and David Robinson both have 2 Championship rings, but Hakeem is rank higher because he's a 2x NBA Finals MVP.

:facepalm it has nothing to do with Hakeem being a better player?

[ImKobe]

:facepalm it has nothing to do with Hakeem being a better player?

People take things out of context. It should matter what each player did to win the title. Hakeem carried a team to two titles, Robinson was merely a 2nd option in 99 and a role player in 03.

Prime Robinson was one of the best big men we've ever seen, his numbers were ridiculous. So much skill for a guy his size.

You don't just rank players by how many rings they've won. You look at their accolades, their impact on the sport of basketball and their skill levels.

[Black and White]

People take things out of context. It should matter what each player did to win the title. Hakeem carried a team to two titles, Robinson was merely a 2nd option in 99 and a role player in 03.

Prime Robinson was one of the best big men we've ever seen, his numbers were ridiculous. So much skill for a guy his size.

You don't just rank players by how many rings they've won. You look at their accolades, their impact on the sport of basketball and their skill levels.

Exactly, people here are very narrow minded, you have to look at the context and their body of work as a whole.

[Mr Exlax]

Lol I am a Celtics fan, won't expect you to believe it because you are too busy trolling, but check out the Celtics threads from time to time, there just isn't many of them

You're a Celtics fan?

[pauk]

Its true that a championship run is not as significant in context as the one where you actually was the best player in your team.

BUT it can also happen that the best player in your team doesnt get the FMVP, that award is based on only 4 to max 7 games afterall, so the 2nd best player or 3rd best player on that team in that little timefrime is enough to snatch it if he is on fire while you didnt play the best game... see James Worthy with Magic/Kareem for example...

[Black and White]

You're a Celtics fan?

Yep, look under my username, I thought you knew. Hows it going by the way?

[Mr Exlax]

Yep, look under my username, I thought you knew. Hows it going by the way?

You can't be a Celtics fan and like Kobe man! WTF is wrong with you!?!?!?


Oh and I'm good. How's everything going on your end bud?

[ImKobe]

You can't be a Celtics fan and like Kobe man! WTF is wrong with you!?!?!?

Why not? I'm a Lakers fan and I respect the hell out of Tom Brady. Game recognize game.

[aj1987]

Why not? I'm a Lakers fan and I respect the hell out of Tom Brady. Game recognize game.
Brady plays for the Celtics?

[Mr Exlax]

Why not? I'm a Lakers fan and I respect the hell out of Tom Brady. Game recognize game.

Football I don't care about. It's one thing to respect it. It's another thing to be a fan. You're a Laker fan though so you really really ain't shit to me. No offense of course.

[Black and White]

You can't be a Celtics fan and like Kobe man! WTF is wrong with you!?!?!?


Oh and I'm good. How's everything going on your end bud?

He's a dying breed man, last of his kind, I respect his game, but if he comes up against the C's at anytime I always want the C's to crush his team.

Btw, Terrence Jones is legit, I really like what he is doing.

[ImKobe]

Brady plays for the Celtics?

I'm a Los Angeles sports fan, obviously I hate anything related to Boston, as most would.

[Mr Exlax]

He's a dying breed man, last of his kind, I respect his game, but if he comes up against the C's at anytime I always want the C's to crush his team.

Btw, Terrence Jones is legit, I really like what he is doing.

A snitching rapist? I hope they die out. Nah seriously he's one of the most talented players I've ever seen. Much respect to him, but fugg him. I've always hated the Lakers as far back as I can remember. Then he beat out Eddie Jones for the starting SG spot so that made me hate him even more lol.

I'll be completely honest. I had no idea he'd turn out this good let alone good at all lol. I'm still hoping for a coaching change. I think we could get by with Lin and Bev as our PGs.

[Mr Exlax]

I'm a Los Angeles sports fan, obviously I hate anything related to Boston, as most would.

You can respect somebody and not be a fan.

[ImKobe]

You can respect somebody and not be a fan.

Well I'm a fan of Tom Brady, he's one of my favorite QBs in NFL history, but I hate the Patriots almost as much as I hate the Celtics.

[Black and White]

A snitching rapist? I hope they die out. Nah seriously he's one of the most talented players I've ever seen. Much respect to him, but fugg him. I've always hated the Lakers as far back as I can remember. Then he beat out Eddie Jones for the starting SG spot so that made me hate him even more lol.

I'll be completely honest. I had no idea he'd turn out this good let alone good at all lol. I'm still hoping for a coaching change. I think we could get by with Lin and Bev as our PGs.

Hahaha, hey I understand the hate for the Lakers, they are a conference rival.

Yea he has been an amazing find, scary looking forward, Lin and Beverley are sweet, once Lins contract comes up and you can downsize it a little it will be good, how are you looking for capspace??

[Mr Exlax]

Hahaha, hey I understand the hate for the Lakers, they are a conference rival.

Yea he has been an amazing find, scary looking forward, Lin and Beverley are sweet, once Lins contract comes up and you can downsize it a little it will be good, how are you looking for capspace??

To be honest I have no idea how we're gonna do with our cap. I would like to keep Lin for cheap. Hopefully he'd settle for less. I don't know how much we're gonna offer Parsons. I just hope we get a different coach before anything else. I just really really really don't like McHale. He doesn't suck, but I don't see us winning with him.

[Black and White]

To be honest I have no idea how we're gonna do with our cap. I would like to keep Lin for cheap. Hopefully he'd settle for less. I don't know how much we're gonna offer Parsons. I just hope we get a different coach before anything else. I just really really really don't like McHale. He doesn't suck, but I don't see us winning with him.

See the problem is the team is doing well, so there isn't really any reason for the team to look to move McHale for another coach. Parsons will get a contract a little lower than the max imo, prob 14 mil? maybe? Lin should come cheap, I don't see other teams overpaying him.

[AlphaWolf24]

Rings are Overrated , MVP's are Overrated, TS% is Overrated , Longevity is Overrated , Scoring is Overrated , allstars are Overrated , all defense is Overrated....

what really matters is the 30PPG 5AST 5REB club! ( oh yeah Durant is Dominating that STAT)








I guess it's all about it's all about FG%.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

See the problem is the team is doing well, so there isn't really any reason for the team to look to move McHale for another coach. Parsons will get a contract a little lower than the max imo, prob 14 mil? maybe? Lin should come cheap, I don't see other teams overpaying him.
least knowledgeable poste rby far.
Jeremy Lin is a 19/8 guy with elite defense on just about any team other then the Rockets. i can guarantee u a team like the Lakers will offer him at least 10 million a year next FA

[TheMarkMadsen]

Rings are Overrated , MVP's are Overrated, TS% is Overrated , Longevity is Overrated , Scoring is Overrated , allstars are Overrated , all defense is Overrated....

what really matters is the 30PPG 5AST 5REB club! ( oh yeah Durant is Dominating that STAT)








I guess it's all about it's all about FG%.

:applause:

[aj1987]

least knowledgeable poste rby far.
Jeremy Lin is a 19/8 guy with elite defense on just about any team other then the Rockets. i can guarantee u a team like the Lakers will offer him at least 10 million a year next FA
He's by no means an elite defender. He's above average to very good, but not elite.

[Black and White]

least knowledgeable poste rby far.
Jeremy Lin is a 19/8 guy with elite defense on just about any team other then the Rockets. i can guarantee u a team like the Lakers will offer him at least 10 million a year next FA

Lin is quality, but I don't see him commanding the money he is currently on, and certianly not the Lakers.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

He's by no means an elite defender. He's above average to very good, but not elite.
okay i can live with that:cheers:
remember when everyone called him one of the worst defenders in the league entirely based on race??:facepalm
for me his help defense and IQ makes him elite but maybe ur right his man-to man has to improve a bit for being elite.
but dude blocks Center and PF nearly every game and has insane positioning in team defense:rockon:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Lin is quality, but I don't see him commanding the money he is currently on, and certianly not the Lakers.
on the current Lakers team he would average 22/9 without even breaking a sweat.
he now plays in a system absolutely terrible for his strenght and he still put up many Huge performances this season.
i can absolutely see the Lakers take his expiring contract if the dont tank next season and then offer him near max the next FA :cheers:

[Black and White]

on the current Lakers team he would average 22/9 without even breaking a sweat.
he now plays in a system absolutely terrible for his strenght and he still put up many Huge performances this season.
i can absolutely see the Lakers take his expiring contract if the dont tank next season and then offer him near max the next FA :cheers:

Near max? Lin is not worth near max, not to the Lakers at least, they can spend that money elsewhere.

[NumberSix]

I honestly don't see how Lin is a legit NBA starter let alone near-max like someone said.

[coin24]

Its true that a championship run is not as significant in context as the one where you actually was the best player in your team.

BUT it can also happen that the best player in your team doesnt get the FMVP, that award is based on only 4 to max 7 games afterall, so the 2nd best player or 3rd best player on that team in that little timefrime is enough to snatch it if he is on fire while you didnt play the best game... see James Worthy with Magic/Kareem for example...


Nah.. See Lebron James 2013.
MIA games 1-5 and half of 6. Then Ray Allen saved him

Still won FMVP. Even his stans were jumping ship that how pathetic he was playing:roll:

[mehyaM24]

hell no....you're basically saying cornbred maxwell was more valuable than bird in 1981.....LMAO

[Stringer Bell]

Nope. Magic and his 18, 7, and 14 a game in the 85' Finals were worthless because he didn't win MVP, as was 88' when he put up 21, 6, and 13 a game. Same with Kareem in 80' with his 33 and 13 a game.

[Pointguard]

Finals MVP's don't acknowledge defense or all around contribution so if the defense is tight and all around contribution like Ben Wallace/KG/Rodman/Bird/Magic then I say it should definitely count.

[truhooper]

rings count, but you can't be in the GOAT discussion If you don't have more finals mvps than rings :confusedshrug:

[ThePhantomCreep]

rings count, but you can't be in the GOAT discussion If you don't have more finals mvps than rings :confusedshrug:

:wtf:

Number of players with more Finals MVPs than rings:

[NumberSix]

rings count, but you can't be in the GOAT discussion If you don't have more finals mvps than rings :confusedshrug:
How does one attain MORE FMVPs than rings? :wtf:

[truhooper]

How does one attain MORE FMVPs than rings? :wtf:

i meant you can't have less finals mvps than rings

[MichaelCorleone]

i meant you can't have less finals mvps than rings
Like how Kobe is missing 3 FMVP, which equates to him having only 2 rings.

[ThePhantomCreep]

i meant you can't have less finals mvps than rings

Oh I get it, because that only leaves Jordan and LeBron. Nice criteria.

How do you factor two awful Finals losses (2007, 2011)?

[Marlo_Stanfield]

i meant you can't have less finals mvps than rings
i think you can still be GOAT if ur 5 rings 4 FMVPS and it was kind of a fluke or you unselfishly let the hotter guy get the win for your team.
but 3/5 or 2/5 or 0,5/5 like Kobe is uneccaptable :facepalm

[MichaelCorleone]

i think you can still be GOAT if ur 5 rings 4 FMVPS and it was kind of a fluke or you unselfishly let the hotter guy get the win for your team.
but 3/5 or 2/5 or 0,5/5 like Kobe is uneccaptable :facepalm
Don't forget, at one point, Kobe had 3 rings with ZERO FMVP.:facepalm

[ThePhantomCreep]

Don't forget, at one point, Kobe had 3 rings with ZERO FMVP.:facepalm

Yes, needing 9 seasons to finally win a ring in a lockout shortened season (and with a super-stacked team) is so much more impressive.

Actually no, it isn't. At all.

[JohnFreeman]

Should have known a Jan 14 started this thread :facepalm

[Lebron23]

Yes, needing 9 seasons to finally win a ring in a lockout shortened season (and with a super-stacked team) is so much more impressive.

Actually no, it isn't. At all.


Kobe is the greatest player of all time.

1x NBA MVp, and 2x Finals MVp, >> 4x NBA MVP, and 2x Finals MVP at age 29.