Dennis Rodman - Basketball Genius?

[Milbuck]

"We were standing in the lay-up line, warming up and shooting, and Rodman was standing back and watching everybody shoot. I said, ‘Hey, come on, you have to participate; everybody’s shooting lay-ups, you have to shoot lay-ups, too.’ And he said, ‘I’m just watching the rotations on the basketball.’ I said, ‘Excuse me?’ He said, ‘Like, when you shoot, your ball spins three times in the air. Joe’s sometimes has 3 1/2 or four times.’

"That’s how far Rodman had taken rebounding, to a totally different level, like off the charts. He knew the rotation of every person that shot on our team — if it spins sideways, where it would bounce, how often it would bounce left or right. He had rebounding down to a science, and I never heard anyone think or talk about rebounding and defense the way he could break it down.

"When you talk about basketball IQ, I’d put Rodman at a genius level."


"I know shooters, but that's not enough," he says. "You have to watch the flight of the ball. Most guys see the shot go up and they turn and look at the rim, waiting for the ball to come off. I watch the ball in the air and make an adjustment if I need to." When Rodman was traded from the San Antonio Spurs to the Bulls in October, he immediately made a habit of rebounding for Pippen and Jordan during practices as they warmed up so he could get a feel for the caroms that came from their shots. "Most of the time Mike's shots tend to come off to the right of the rim, no matter where he shoots it from, but I don't just take that for granted," Rodman says. "I watch his shot in the air, and I can tell if it's off-line to the left or short, and then I go where I think I need to be."

A typical Rodman game would not be instructional-video material. He takes liberties with the fundamentals, sometimes deciding not to box his man out and instead moving to the spot where he anticipates the rebound will come. His relatively slender build works to his advantage here, because he seems to be able to slip through cracks between players. Like a good outfielder, Rodman appears to get a jump on the ball, moving while the ball is still in the air. Because of that ability, Charlotte Hornets vice president of basketball operations Bob Bass, who held the same job with San Antonio when Rodman joined the Spurs, compared him to Willie Mays.

And if Rodman guesses wrong, he has the ability to adjust quickly. "Dennis can jump at an angle, which is not as easy as it might sound," says Bulls television analyst Johnny (Red) Kerr, who averaged double figures in rebounds for eight straight seasons in the 1950s and '60s with the Syracuse Nationals and the Philadelphia 76ers. "Most guys are straight-up jumpers, but Dennis can adjust his body in the air to get to a ball. The only other player I've seen who could do that was Russell."

This league needs another Dennis Rodman.

[Smook A.]

Nobody's gonna read that, tbh

Edit: I read It. Pretty koo

[tpols]

Nobody's gonna read that, tbh
Anyone thats interested in basketball will.. Rodmans gotta be the most underrated high impact player ever

[russwest0]

Holy shit. That is pretty cool.

Greatest rebounder of all time and a damn good defender. Too bad he lacked mental stability.

We do need more guys like that in the NBA.

[russwest0]

Anyone thats interested in basketball will.. Rodmans gotta be the most underrated high impact player ever

Smook is salty because he has beef with Milbuck for some reason

[Sharmer]

This league needs another Dennis Rodman.


I can see why you're a big KG fan, you like dirty players.

[Milbuck]

Smook is salty because he has beef with Milbuck for some reason
It's gotta be because I talk a lot of shit about Harden :oldlol:

[Milbuck]

I can see why you're a big KG fan, you like dirty players.
When did I ever once say I was a KG fan? And come to think of it I never said I was a Rodman fan either, just that the league could use someone like him. Just found this really interesting.

[I<3NBA]

Nobody's gonna read that, tbh
i read it. what you gonna do about it?

[Smook A.]

It's gotta be because I talk a lot of shit about Harden :oldlol:
Yep. I defend my team

[Sharmer]

When did I ever once say I was a KG fan? And come to think of it I never said I was a Rodman fan either, just that the league could use someone like him. Just found this really interesting.

The league could use players like Rodman and KG, minus the dirty plays.

[russwest0]

It's gotta be because I talk a lot of shit about Harden :oldlol:

Welcome to the club :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Most overrated player in the league

[Smook A.]

Welcome to the club :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Most overrated player in the league
Did you not like him when he was on the Thunder?

Most overrated player in the league is paul george. 3rd best player in league, my ass. He's more like the 5th-6th best. Damn good player though

[9512]

While it's admirable rodman plays like this, he probably could've added something on offense so as to not be entirely some liability. Maybe a consistent 18 foot spot up shot or maybe a corner 3 (if he played in today's league). His free throws could've used some improvement...but eh I'm nit picking lol rodman is a top tier rebounder of all time.:cheers:

I do like him being unconventional. I always thought boxing out wasn't always the answer 100% of the time. In my experience playing, if the rebound was missed my coach would chew me out about the blasphemous lack of boxing out costing the team a possession. When really, jumping horizontally was the way to get said rebound.

[russwest0]

Did you not like him when he was on the Thunder?

Nah, thought he was a good 6th man but could never be the starter or provide much value for OKC because he's a ball dominant player that plays zero defense while both Durant and Russ can work effectively off ball and are some of the best defenders at their position.

He's overrated in Houston. No doubt.

[Smook A.]

Nah, thought he was a good 6th man but could never be the starter or provide much value for OKC because he's a ball dominant player that plays zero defense while both Durant and Russ can work effectively off ball and are some of the best defenders at their position.

He's overrated in Houston. No doubt.
Since he's 24 I hope he can change his game. I want him to play better defense and become more of a leader

[Milbuck]

While it's admirable rodman plays like this, he probably could've added something on offense so as to not be entirely some liability. Maybe a consistent 18 foot spot up shot or maybe a corner 3 (if he played in today's league). His free throws could've used some improvement...but eh I'm not picking lol rodman is a top tier rebounder of all time.:cheers:
I really wish he would have, any semblance of an offensive game would've made him one of the most dangerous players of his time, even more than he already was. Especially if he did it during his time with the Bulls, I shudder to think what that 96 team would've done if Dennis had a decent offensive skill set.

He just wasn't that kind of player though. Steve Kerr on Open Court was talking about Rodman once, he mentioned how Rodman got this weird satisfaction from the games where he would have 0 points and 20 rebounds. It was almost like a big '**** you' to the way basketball players were marketed and advertised. He just relished the thought of being unlike anyone else.

[Harison]

There is no question Rodman has off the charts BBIQ, and is a great example why fans shouldn't judge players IQ based on their crazy antics.

[AintNoSunshine]

He's obviously one of greatest rebounders ever, especially taking into account his size, due to his natural instinct, but the first paragraph is so bullshiit.

[Stringer Bell]

It doesn't get mentioned much, but he was an excellent passer too.

[97 bulls]

I really wish he would have, any semblance of an offensive game would've made him one of the most dangerous players of his time, even more than he already was. Especially if he did it during his time with the Bulls, I shudder to think what that 96 team would've done if Dennis had a decent offensive skill set.

He just wasn't that kind of player though. Steve Kerr on Open Court was talking about Rodman once, he mentioned how Rodman got this weird satisfaction from the games where he would have 0 points and 20 rebounds. It was almost like a big '**** you' to the way basketball players were marketed and advertised. He just relished the thought of being unlike anyone else.
Good point. People dont seem to understand that Rodman intentionally didn't score. Not because he couldn't. Sure he was never gonna be a 20 ppg scorer, but he.could've hovered around.12-15 pts and 18 rbds if he chose to. I remember him saying, the Bulls didn't need for him to score, they had Jordan, Pippen, and Kukoc. In hey had plenty of offensive firepower

[r0drig0lac]

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Lebron23]

Rodman has a very high basketball IQ. He seems like a very weird fellow, but dude's IQ and court smarts are off the chart.

[SHAQisGOAT]

To be fair, you don't get to be one of the best rebounders and defensive players ever without a great basketball IQ, not even close.. Don't care how athletic you are or whatnot.

[Rake2204]

I think some of Rodman's techniques become a little overstated at times. I don't think he's alone in much of what was mentioned in the original post. Boxing out really isn't the answer all of the time. The point of rebounding is to garner the ball by any legal (or secretly illegal) means possible. It's just that boxing out can often be beneficial in that pursuit.

In terms of the blurb on ball rotation, wouldn't the number of rotations alter depending upon where the shot is taken, as well as numerous other factors? At that point, would the number of rotations even really matter in relation to one's ability to rebound?

That said, reading a shooter's individual tendencies is very important and again, I don't think he's alone in that frame of thinking. For instance, I had a teammate who used to fire rainbow triple attemps that, if missed, tended to miss long, providing a sky high carom off the back iron. Then I also had someone who had a flatter stroke that'd elicit sharp rebounds that'd very often skim toward the opposite side of the rim. I feel it'd only make sense to study and diagnose the tendencies of one's teammates to that degree.

[ivienthol]

Anyone who's at a genius level of their craft are always a bit off the wall. But he was ahead of the game too. From the tattoos to the flamboyant attitude to great acting/flopping. He also has a case for '96 Finals MVP too. People, especially women, came out to watch Rodman just as much as they did Jordan. He trolled a lot but he also knew the game at the highest of levels that only a few people get to. He doesn't get enough credit for that as a basketball player. Good read thanks.

[BoutPractice]

Also a diplomatic genius who may single-handedly spark a new era in US-North Korea relations.

[aj1987]

Also a diplomatic genius who may single-handedly spark a new era in US-North Korea relations.
:roll: :roll:

[Prometheus]

:applause: Excellent thread. I personally think Rodman is the single most underrated basketball player of all time. And as someone else pointed out, yes he was a tremendous passer. His value was incredible.

[coolhandsteve]

Even me sometimes when I play I don't spend the energy doing all that wrestling on the rebounds when I can just watch the flight of the ball and get in position that way.