Andrew Bogut vs Roy Hibbert

[Inferno]

Hibbert unfairly gets all the media hype when Bogut is just as good as, if not better, than Hibbert IMO :coleman:

Bogut: 27 MPG; 8.2 PPG / 10.6 rebounds / 2.0 blocks on 64/35 shooting; ORtg 114, DRtg 95

Hibbert: 31 MPG; 12.3 PPG / 7.7 rebounds / 2.5 blocks on 47/75 shooting; ORtg 105, DRtg 94

This is with Bogut playing 4 minutes less per game, and not being involved in the team's offense as much. Advanced stats have him edging Hibbert out on offense, and having a marginally worse DRtg...

Where's the Bogut hype? Do we have to wait till he's unleashed in the playoffs? :coleman:

[Sharmer]

Bogut is a defensive wall, but he had a lot more hype when at the Bucks, he just become a role player now. Albeit very important one.

[Inferno]

Bogut is a defensive wall, but he had a lot more hype when at the Bucks, he just become a role player now. Albeit very important one.

He should still be getting the same amount of hype as Hibbert does...anchoring the defense of a team tied for 2nd beast in the league :bowdown:

[finchyyy]

Roy really needs to improve he's rebounding. But yes, Bogut is a beast. Will be extremely important come playoff time. Great passer for a big man too.

[JohnFreeman]

Bogut.

[Inferno]

Roy really needs to improve he's rebounding. But yes, Bogut is a beast. Will be extremely important come playoff time. Great passer for a big man too.

:applause:

[Milbuck]

I'd take pre-injury Bucks Bogut over Hibbert, but I really don't know about them in their current state.

Hibbert's impact just cannot be completely represented by stats. Every time I watch the Pacers play, I lose track of how many plays he impacts but doesn't get any statistical reward for - there's just too many. He could literally have 0 points and 4-5 rebounds in a game against Miami and still be the most impactful player on the floor for Indiana.

Bogut has been progressively getting closer and closer to his pre-injury form. And without him I think GS would be pretty average. He's definitely one of the most underrated big men in the league.

It really depends on the matchup.

[Sharmer]

He should still be getting the same amount of hype as Hibbert does...anchoring the defense of a team tied for 2nd beast in the league :bowdown:


He gave Duncan a lot of problems last year. He did get a lot of media attention then, a lot because Duncan was complaining that Bogut was dirty.

Hibbert gets the attention because of the rivalry with the heat, and also because D12 disappointed in LA last season.

[Inferno]

He gave Duncan a lot of problems last year. He did get a lot of media attention then, a lot because Duncan was complaining that Bogut was dirty.

Hibbert gets the attention because of the rivalry with the heat, and also because D12 disappointed in LA last season.


I'd take pre-injury Bucks Bogut over Hibbert, but I really don't know about them in their current state.

Hibbert's impact just cannot be completely represented by stats. Every time I watch the Pacers play, I lose track of how many plays he impacts but doesn't get any statistical reward for - there's just too many. He could literally have 0 points and 4-5 rebounds in a game against Miami and still be the most impactful player on the floor for Indiana.

Bogut has been progressively getting closer and closer to his pre-injury form. And without him I think GS would be pretty average. He's definitely one of the most underrated big men in the league.

It really depends on the matchup.

Bogut's impact also can't be fully represented by stats either, though. Many times our defense just falls apart when he's out.

But yeah, Hibbert also has a huge impact on games. My purpose wasn't to necessarily push the idea that Bogut is clearly > Hibbert, but that Bogut should be getting some hype for anchoring a top 3 defense in the league considering Roy's getting All-Star selections, hype for DPOY, etc.

[Sharmer]

I'd take pre-injury Bucks Bogut over Hibbert, but I really don't know about them in their current state.

Hibbert's impact just cannot be completely represented by stats. Every time I watch the Pacers play, I lose track of how many plays he impacts but doesn't get any statistical reward for - there's just too many. He could literally have 0 points and 4-5 rebounds in a game against Miami and still be the most impactful player on the floor for Indiana.

Bogut has been progressively getting closer and closer to his pre-injury form. And without him I think GS would be pretty average. He's definitely one of the most underrated big men in the league.

It really depends on the matchup.


Pre Injury Bogut use to score away from the basket. He doesn't have the same role with GSW because they got so much shooting depth.

But I agree Bogut at the Bucks before injuries was outstanding.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

If you can promise me a healthy Bogut, I would take him over every center not named Cousins or Noah.

He's managed to stay healthy this year and he's been balling. Been surprised by the amount of athleticism he's shown on some of his defensive rotations and alley oops. This must be the start of a healthy rest of career.
Oops, I jinxed him.

[fpliii]

Hibbert unfairly gets all the media hype when Bogut is just as good as, if not better, than Hibbert IMO :coleman:

Bogut: 27 MPG; 8.2 PPG / 10.6 rebounds / 2.0 blocks on 64/35 shooting; ORtg 114, DRtg 95

Hibbert: 31 MPG; 12.3 PPG / 7.7 rebounds / 2.5 blocks on 47/75 shooting; ORtg 105, DRtg 94

This is with Bogut playing 4 minutes less per game, and not being involved in the team's offense as much. Advanced stats have him edging Hibbert out on offense, and having a marginally worse DRtg...

Where's the Bogut hype? Do we have to wait till he's unleashed in the playoffs? :coleman:

Those basketball-reference.com ORtg/DRtg numbers are just estimates computed from box scores, and aren't actual ORtg/DRtg with Bogut/Hibbert on the court (from play-by-plays):

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=201579&MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame

Hibbert is 105.7/92.9

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=101106&MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame

Bogut is 107.2/98.5.

I think Bogut is a top 5 center though, and will be huge for GSW in the playoffs.

[Inferno]

Those basketball-reference.com ORtg/DRtg numbers are just estimates computed from box scores, and aren't actual ORtg/DRtg with Bogut/Hibbert on the court (from play-by-plays):

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=201579&MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame

Hibbert is 105.7/92.9

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=101106&MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame

Bogut is 107.2/98.5.

I think Bogut is a top 5 center though, and will be huge for GSW in the playoffs.

Ah, thanks for the clarification :cheers:

So yeah Hibbert's defensive impact is bigger, but Bogut should still be getting more hype than he is right now :applause:

[fpliii]

Ah, thanks for the clarification :cheers:

So yeah Hibbert's defensive impact is bigger, but Bogut should still be getting more hype than he is right now :applause:
Bogut's the better offensive center (very underrated passer). Bill Walton's a big fan of his.

Definitely agree, with the Bucks even in his best seasons he got very little hype.

[Milbuck]

Ah, thanks for the clarification :cheers:

So yeah Hibbert's defensive impact is bigger, but Bogut should still be getting more hype than he is right now :applause:
I think the biggest reason he isn't is because most people expected GS to be near the top, pretty much where Portland is at right now. Instead they're hovering in a dangerous spot with Memphis coming for them and Dallas keeping steady.

[Inferno]

Bogut's the better offensive center (very underrated passer). Bill Walton's a big fan of his.

Definitely agree, with the Bucks even in his best seasons he got very little hype.

I think the biggest reason he isn't is because most people expected GS to be near the top, pretty much where Portland is at right now. Instead they're hovering in a dangerous spot with Memphis coming for them and Dallas keeping steady.

Yeah, Milbuck's hypothesis is probably correct. He'll probably get media recognition again if he explodes in the playoffs like he did last year

[bigt]

Bogut's impact probably won't be as recognised until they hit playoffs again, that's when the game slows down and defense becomes more important. Indiana have the advantage of the media right now because they burst out of the gates and are the team to 'dethrone' Miami, and because Hibbert's so important to that he's getting the nods. There's also only 2 teams out East to talk about in a positive light. Chuck Golden State's team out East and Bogut might get more recognition right now

[crunk-juice]

Hibbert "should" be the unanimous DPOY


that trumps anything you can say about Bogut

[oarabbus]

Bogut is a straight up beast :bowdown:

His defense definitely can't be measured in stats, but for different reasons than Hibbert. Hibbert gets allowed to use "verticality" more than any other center (not trying to take anything away from him, he is incredible), but Bogut just makes people want to stay far away from the rim, especially when he's playing nasty.

Like in the Warriors-Clippers game, Bogut blocked the sh1t outta Griffin and played some intense defense on him early, and Blake resorted to shooting jumpers for almost the entire game because he didn't want to approach Bogut. To Blake's credit he did hit a ****load of jumpers though.

But yeah Bogut, especially when playing mean, is a hugely underrated player. Underappreciated oop ability on the Warriors too, Lob City is overrated :coleman:


http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2014/01/31/8422cf421a70a0a33333f624c8309509.jpg

http://i.minus.com/i8MkEXe8w4iAz.gif

[Combat Wombat]

Bogut is a very underrated big man imo. Defensively, he is a top 5, possibly top 3, center in the league. Offensively, he is very good despite what his stats say and like finchyy said, he a excellent passer for a 5.

If Jackson drew up a few plays for him besides living by the three, he'd be putting up more than 8 points.

[MichaelCorleone]

Andrew Bogut for me.:cheers:

[Dro]

Roy Hibbert is horrible and overrated, just like the rest of the Pacers...

[crunk-juice]

Roy Hibbert is horrible and overrated, just like the rest of the Pacers...

except George Hill, that guy can really fly.

[All Net]

Give me Hibbert. He can hurt you offensively which Bogut can't and in the playoffs that's what you want.

However Bogut is great at what he does. We saw what a hurt Bogut did in the playoffs last year.

[JohnFreeman]

:lol Don't worry man we'll see who's better in the finals :rockon:
Bandwagon alert

[SacJB Shady]

Bogut is better than Shaq, but not way better

[mugiwara]

Give me Hibbert. He can hurt you offensively which Bogut can't and in the playoffs that's what you want.

However Bogut is great at what he does. We saw what a hurt Bogut did in the playoffs last year.


Post injury Bogut is far superior to hibbert on offense. What can Hibbert do better then Bogut offensively other then shoot a 15 footer?

[crunk-juice]

Post injury Bogut is far superior to hibbert on offense. What can Hibbert do better then Bogut offensively other then shoot a 15 footer?


Hibbert produces when they need him to.

[Artillery]

Post injury Bogut is far superior to hibbert on offense. What can Hibbert do better then Bogut offensively other then shoot a 15 footer?

RAPM says Bogut's been better defensively than Hibbert but he has a negative impact on offensive. As a result, his overall RAPM is a bit worse than Hibberts.

[kurple]

Hibbert unfairly gets all the media hype when Bogut is just as good as, if not better, than Hibbert IMO
:lol :lol

:facepalm

and no one is allowed to set moving screens like bogut, just sayin

[All Net]

Post injury Bogut is far superior to hibbert on offense. What can Hibbert do better then Bogut offensively other then shoot a 15 footer?

No he isnt

Hibbert can give you 20 on any given night.. Bogut isn't that guy anymore.

[La Frescobaldi]

Bogut has some weaknesses with his defense. He can defend a pick and roll fine but he doesn't handle away-from-the-ball, down-low, blind-side screens.

I did not get to see much of his earlier days and so I'm wondering if this is not really a Bogut weakness, but a very wide-spread coaching problem. Seen it for decades, the typical scenario of a guard turned into a coach who doesn't understand and drill power under the basket.

To me that is the true reason why people say this is a weak era for bigs - the coaches don't know sh!t from shinola about coaching the power game required to excel around the blocks.

That was also a measure of P Jax greatness - he was able to bring out the best of the Bulls (although Cartwright in particular is shamefully underrated) AND he was able to display Shaq's unique passing and power game to it's highest degree. But then coaching is underrated on Ish too so it is what it is

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Greag Oden>>>:banana: :cheers:

[navy]

No he isnt

Hibbert can give you 20 on any given night.. Bogut isn't that guy anymore.
No he cant. He averages 12 points on 46% and he's the biggest guy on the court at all times. His offense is inconsistent. He can beat up teams like Miami, but most of the time he is a non factor on offense.

[KyrieTheFuture]

No he isnt

Hibbert can give you 20 on any given night.. Bogut isn't that guy anymore.
He's only scored 20 or more 7 times this year. He's the biggest guy in the league and can't score worth a damn.

[crunk-juice]

He's the biggest guy in the league and can't score worth a damn.



demonstrably false

[KyrieTheFuture]

demonstrably false
What self respecting center can't score at a higher clip than 50% or more than 13 points a game? Or are you trolling because there is probably some scrub who is bigger than him

[crunk-juice]

What self respecting center can't score at a higher clip than 50% or more than 13 points a game? Or are you trolling because there is probably some scrub who is bigger than him


how often do you watch the Pacers? serious question.

[Rik Smits' Hair]

Roy Hibbert is horrible and overrated, just like the rest of the Pacers...


I couldn't agree more

[aj1987]

Isn't Hibbert 7'2"? How you be that tall and yet average only 8 boards a game?

[crunk-juice]

Isn't Hibbert 7'2"? How you be that tall and yet average only 8 boards a game?


Lance gotta get dem triple doubles

[WallIn]

I'd still take Bogut over Hibbert. Having a 7'2 foot center averaging less than 8 rebounds per game in 30+ minutes is just a disgusting sight

[navy]

Isn't Hibbert 7'2"? How you be that tall and yet average only 8 boards a game?
The Pacers gang rebound as opposed to letting their bigs do it like other teams. Not a big deal, but it hurts Hibbert stats.

No excuses for the offense display by Hibbert though.

[La Frescobaldi]

Isn't Hibbert 7'2"? How you be that tall and yet average only 8 boards a game?

Because in the NBA height has always had virtually nothing to do with rebounding.

Fresco's rebounding rules:

* Positioning, abdomen & lower body strength, and deep knowledge of geometry are vastly more important than height.
Always were, always will be.

* Gaining the inside of your man is not always the correct place to get rebounds. Even elite, NBA level basketball players clearly have never been taught that simple fact... they just see the ball go up, and mindlessly start boxing out. Sometimes feels like watching zombies they are so brain dead.

* You have to understand trajectory of the ball and get to the spot where it's going to bounce - regardless of who's in front of you.

* A teammate who knows how to box effectively - or monstrously - will get a guy lots of easy boards.

* Studies have shown that 65 to 75% of all rebounds are taken below the rim. I suspect those studies were done long ago and that the numbers are much higher than that.

* The very best rebounders seldom leap more than 15 or 18 inches in pursuit of the ball.

* The hand is quicker than the forearm, and the forearm is quicker than the arm.

* Outstanding rebounders are ferocious. Their lust can never be slaked.

* Players who do not study the greatest rebounders are fools.

Thus shall it ever be, and thus you have the knowledge that must be applied but isn't... by Hibbert, Bosh, and many otherwise great players.

[Fresh Kid]

definitely not royina hibberta.

[crunk-juice]

definitely not royina hibberta.



:wtf:

[KyrieTheFuture]

how often do you watch the Pacers? serious question.
Often enough, instead of deflecting **** back to me why don't you back your boy up. I have both stats and the eye test on my side.

[Smoke117]

Bogut is better. He just doesn't score that many points because of how stacked they are offensively.

[La Frescobaldi]

Bogut is better. He just doesn't score that many points because of how stacked they are offensively.

If they trade places how does Bogut do?

What about big Hibs at Golden State ?

[crunk-juice]

Often enough, instead of deflecting **** back to me why don't you back your boy up. I have both stats and the eye test on my side.

I'm not deflecting anything, my point is that stats alone are pretty useless without knowing what is asked of the player.

[andremiller07]

Bogut brings another playmaker while impacting the game on D at a similar level and being a master instigator (knows how to get under peoples skin). Healthy Bogut > Hibbert for me, he's a more complete player and a better athlete.

[houston]

hibbert soooo overrated