What Happened To Kyrie

[MannyO]

I haven't been keeping up with the NBA lately, but from what I've been hearing it sounds like Kyrie went from next great Superstar PG in the league to being "average", "mediocre". I see that his scoring has slightly dropped but can anybody tell me exactly what happened to him?

[Meticode]

I haven't been keeping up with the NBA lately, but from what I've been hearing it sounds like Kyrie went from next great Superstar PG in the league to being "average", "mediocre". I see that his scoring has slightly dropped but can anybody tell me exactly what happened to him?
Him and the team has had issues adjusting under the team culture of Mike Brown and making the team play defense. Although they're still below average defensively they improved upon last year.

Irving is not adjusting to his role of being a leader and hasn't shown that he can do that yet.

[Smook A.]

His scoring average has gone down by 2 points from last season. His assists are low for a PG and his FG% has been around 40%. Still the same Kyrie, he just needs a little more confidence and a better Cleveland team to be considered an elite PG

[FatComputerNerd]

What Happened To Kyrie?

Cleveland happened... :hammerhead:

Really though, I think people are rushing to judgement here. The last two years he was praised as the second coming. Now because of some team drama and struggles he's gone through this season he's become everyone's favorite player to hate on.

[MannyO]

Oh I see makes sense, I think this hes just not motivated. I still believe he has it in him he just needs motivation and a better cast. Plus like alot of people are saying, playing in Cleveland isn't helping him either. He's still young he'll get it going.

[RedBlackAttack]

The amount of hate and negative attention this guy is getting this year is completely over the top. Suffice to say the Cavs have not met or approached expectations this year... not mine or most others.

But, the problems with this team go way beyond our best player. It is just a mess right now. These guys don't seem to fit on the court or off it and Brown has done nothing but make things worse so far.

That being said, Kyrie is still just 21 and supremely talented. I still believe that he will eventually be among the league's best. It may just not happen overnight like many thought would happen.

It's funny... at the start of his rookie year, it took the masses far too long to recognize how good this guy was. He was underrated for much of that season. But, when people did finally start to notice him, they went way over the top and just assumed he'd be in the argument for best PG after just two seasons.

Now, many are back to shrugging him off like he's utter trash. It's like people can never moderate expectations. Either a guy is the next coming or complete garbage. There's no in between.

[Illuminati]

Saw on Reddit that Isaiah Thomas (last pick of 2011 draft) is arguably putting up better numbers than Kyrie (1st pick) this season. :oldlol:

Kyrie is overrated. Other than his nasty crossovers, what else can he do?

[Meticode]

After the loss to the Mavs Jason Lloyd posted are record this season compared to last season so far. W'ere only two games better than last season. Unbelievable considering we've had no major injuries whatsoever this season at all. If anything the injury bug as stayed away from this team amazingly.

[FatComputerNerd]

Saw on Reddit that Isaiah Thomas (last pick of 2011 draft) is arguably putting up better numbers than Kyrie (1st pick) this season. :oldlol:

Kyrie is overrated. Other than his nasty crossovers, what else can he do?

His first two years he would take over in the 4th quarter and hit big-time clutch shots. He was also shooting much better percentages, won the three-point shootout, and wowed the nation in that 2012 rookie/sophomore game.

Remember when he was being called "Mr. Fourth Quarter" for a while there?

Don't forget he also won ROTY...

[IGOTGAME]

he has never shown any signs of being able to properly run a team. Said this since his rookie year and the Cavs fans bashed me. Supremely talented ball handler but just not a very skilled passer or playmaker. He will need to really work at it but he does have the talent to be a special player. Cavs fans were trying to blame his faults on his teammates but that just wasn't the case.

[Meticode]

His first two years he would take over in the 4th quarter and hit big-time clutch shots. Remember when he was being called "Mr. Fourth Quarter" for a while there?
Unfortunately not this year though. If anything he's lost more games for us this season in the fourth quarter. :(

[Meticode]

he has never shown any signs of being able to properly run a team. Said this since his rookie year and the Cavs fans bashed me. Supremely talented ball handler but just not a very skilled passer or playmaker. He will need to really work at it but he does have the talent to be a special player. Cavs fans were trying to blame his faults on his teammates but that just wasn't the case.
Good luck running a team with Mike Brown as coach. The team hasn't adjusted to Brown and he's not been the right fit. Obviously some players haven't fight well together.

[IGOTGAME]

Good luck running a team with Mike Brown as coach. The team hasn't adjusted to Brown and he's not been the right fit. Obviously some players haven't fight well together.

yup. not Kyrie's fault. Even though you can put Chris Paul out there with me coaching the team would look just fine running almost ANY offense. Btw...lebron looked fine out there running the offense.

I will concede one point, I haven't been able to watch much basketball this year so I'm not familiar with what Mike Brown has them running.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Some of it is because of the offseason hype for the Cavs, no? Their failing goes on the presumed leader and best player.

[FatComputerNerd]

Unfortunately not this year though. If anything he's lost more games for us this season in the fourth quarter. :(

Hence the turnaround of everyone going from loving him to hating him.

Personally, I think he is being forced to play roles that he is not suited to, and that has affected his game on multiple levels.

He SHOULD have the ball in his hands. He is not Ray Allen, and there is no reason he should be out there in the stupid 3-guard lineup playing off the ball so much.

Obviously the team drama hasn't helped.

[RedBlackAttack]

Some of it is because of the offseason hype for the Cavs, no? Their failing goes on the presumed leader and best player.
That's not some of it... it's 90% of it. The other 10% is his scoring efficiency being down, but his assist/turnover ratio is better than it ever has been. Statistically, he's had a fine season so far. The problem is people were expecting wins this year, rightly or wrongly.

[Project018]

What Happened To Kyrie

-----------

Mike Brown and his offense

[Meticode]

yup. not Kyrie's fault. Even though you can put Chris Paul out there with me coaching the team would look just fine running almost ANY offense. Btw...lebron looked fine out there running the offense.

I will concede one point, I haven't been able to watch much basketball this year so I'm not familiar with what Mike Brown has them running.
It just doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know him and the team isn't caring or they're partying too much or what. Everything that happened during the off-season pointed to us having at least better season than the previous. They hired MIke Brown, which I didn't like, but we were pretty much last defensively under Byron Scott and this needed to be looked at, Irving got ripped and into the best shape of his life, Waiters got in shape during hte off-season, Varejao got healthy, Thompson improved a couple aspects to his game, namely facing up at the basket and his free-throw shooting.

The only thing that's happened is we're 2 wins better than last season so far, Irving is having a worse season statistically speaking, Waiters is having the exact same type of statistically season, Thompson has leveled off and hasn't shown much improve and disappears in games at times.

Now you got rift in locker-rooms and Brown seemingly not controlling his team.

[RedBlackAttack]

yup. not Kyrie's fault. Even though you can put Chris Paul out there with me coaching the team would look just fine running almost ANY offense. Btw...lebron looked fine out there running the offense.

I will concede one point, I haven't been able to watch much basketball this year so I'm not familiar with what Mike Brown has them running.
Anyone who has watched the Cavs this year knows it is a team problem. It goes way beyond one player.

And, Kyrie is not CP3. I always thought that was a dumb comparison. Their games are completely different. Kyrie is a natural scorer and CP3 is a natural playmaker.

[Embers]

An absurd stat

278 shots within 8ft
223 3 point attempts

The discrepancy is absurd for a player who IMO strength should be coming in driving to the bucket and getting to the foul line

4.7 FTA is also a absurd stat. He should be looking to get to the line 10-12 times a game for mine given the wheels he has on the dribble

I think Cleveland need to shift Dion Waiters/CJ Miles and get in a stronger passing guard next to him. Target Lance Stephenson in FA I think.

For today though Irving needs to cut the 3 pointers down, get to the bucket and get to the fricken foul line. It will help the rest of his game too.

[Meticode]

An absurd stat

278 shots within 8ft
223 3 point attempts

The discrepancy is absurd for a player who IMO strength should be coming in driving to the bucket and getting to the foul line

4.7 FTA is also a absurd stat. He should be looking to get to the line 10-12 times a game for mine given the wheels he has on the dribble

I think Cleveland need to shift Dion Waiters/CJ Miles and get in a stronger passing guard next to him. Target Lance Stephenson in FA I think.

For today though Irving needs to cut the 3 pointers down, get to the bucket and get to the fricking foul line. It will help the rest of his game too.
This is questionable because when he goes to the bucket he always falls to the floor and doesn't get a call more times than not. And he's below-average to average at finishing around the rim as well statically. So many times this season I see him pass up a open jumper 16-20 feet out only to drive into the teeth of the defense and throw a prayer up.

HIs decision making has not been good this season.

[outbreak]

I think part of it is just being fed up with the situation, if you've got guys like waiters who are rumoured to have been in trouble for shot selection yet don't get reprimanded and other players not putting in at all you'd eventually get fed up to the point where you may think "why should I put my body on the line trying to drive when I can half ass it and jack up a three?"

[FatComputerNerd]

This is questionable because when he goes to the bucket he always falls to the floor and doesn't get a call more times than not. And he's below-average to average at finishing around the rim as well statically. So many times this season I see him pass up a open jumper 16-20 feet out only to drive into the teeth of the defense and throw a prayer up.

HIs decision making has not been good this season.


Stats aren't everything. Up until all this BS started he was looking like one of the best finishers in the game with crazy Jordanesque layups and whatnot on the regular...while also shooting lights out from everywhere on the floor.

I do think opposing defenses have adjusted too though, and tend to collapse on him more than they used to. That could be another potential factor.

[RedBlackAttack]

An absurd stat

278 shots within 8ft
223 3 point attempts

The discrepancy is absurd for a player who IMO strength should be coming in driving to the bucket and getting to the foul line

4.7 FTA is also a absurd stat. He should be looking to get to the line 10-12 times a game for mine given the wheels he has on the dribble

I think Cleveland need to shift Dion Waiters/CJ Miles and get in a stronger passing guard next to him. Target Lance Stephenson in FA I think.

For today though Irving needs to cut the 3 pointers down, get to the bucket and get to the fricken foul line. It will help the rest of his game too.

This has A LOT to do with the Cavs poor spacing. A stretch 4 who could step out and hit a 17-footer consistently would do wonders for Irving/Waiters. For now, our bigs create a logjam around the rim which has proven very difficult to navigate for our guards. From this point of view, the Bennett pick made some sense. His skillset would be vital to the team's floor spacing if he provided what was expected.

It also hurts that we have no real knockdown shooter in the backcourt. Teams just sit on the drive and say beat us from the perimeter.

[BlackVVaves]

Statistically, he's been regressing in a pretty critical area for a point guard - FG% - every year. Despite this, he continues to go 1 on 5 in many instances throughout the game. I don't know if his individualist attitude permeated through the team, or if the selfish nature of the team cultivated his own gunslinging tendencies, but whatever it is, it's crippling the Cavs to an embarrassing extent.

The Cavs front office has illustrated severe incompetence (in hindsight for some, but not all) in regards to the talent they scouted and acquired. From Earl Clark to Anthony Bennet, nearly all their acquisitions this past off-season, in a year they were seeking to make the jump from lottery fodder to playoff team, were strike outs. As a result, the culture in that locker room and organization is muffled, the team (after half of a season) has no identity, and the Cavs are stuck in their shit.

It's truly a shame to see, the season had so much promise. That Anthony Bennett pick is going to haunt that franchise, it's hard to miss so badly on a pick and not feel the implications soonthereafter. The Pistons were able to build a championship caliber team in a fleeting manner, but it only took a few seasons for their misstep in choosing Darko over Melo or Wade or Bosh to rear it's head. And, their spiral hasn't ended since.

[Embers]

This has A LOT to do with the Cavs poor spacing. A stretch 4 who could step out and hit a 17-footer consistently would do wonders for Irving/Waiters. For now, our bigs create a logjam around the rim which has proven very difficult to navigate for our guards. From this point of view, the Bennett pick made some sense. His skillset would be vital to the team's floor spacing if he provided what was expected.

It also hurts that we have no real knockdown shooter in the backcourt. Teams just sit on the drive and say beat us from the perimeter.


Said all season that Tristan Thompson isnt a starter and is a huge problem for the Cavs. IMO he is also one who has to go

[IGOTGAME]

Anyone who has watched the Cavs this year knows it is a team problem. It goes way beyond one player.

And, Kyrie is not CP3. I always thought that was a dumb comparison. Their games are completely different. Kyrie is a natural scorer and CP3 is a natural playmaker.

I never addressed any of the Cavs problems as a team. I simply stayed on task and addressed the OP, which was about Kyrie.

The use of CP3's name was only to show that there are other point guards(several) who can run a team no matter who the coach is...If it is dumb to point out that Kyrie isn't a good playmaker, which is a significant part of his responsibilities as a basketball player than proceed to call me "dumb."

Btw...you were spewing a very different tune when Kyrie was a rookie in regard to his playmaking potential.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Statistically, he's been regressing in a pretty critical area for a point guard - FG% - every year. Despite this, he continues to go 1 on 5 in many instances throughout the game. I don't know if his individualist attitude permeated through the team, or if the selfish nature of the team cultivated his own gunslinging tendencies, but whatever it is, it's crippling the Cavs to an embarrassing extent.

The Cavs front office has illustrated severe incompetence (in hindsight for some, but not all) in regards to the talent they scouted and acquired. From Earl Clark to Anthony Bennet, nearly all their acquisitions this past off-season, in a year they were seeking to make the jump from lottery fodder to playoff team, were strike outs. As a result, the culture in that locker room and organization is muffled, the team (after half of a season) has no identity, and the Cavs are stuck in their shit.

It's truly a shame to see, the season had so much promise. That Anthony Bennett pick is going to haunt that franchise, it's hard to miss so badly on a pick and not feel the implications soonthereafter. The Pistons were able to build a championship caliber team in a fleeting manner, but it only took a few seasons for their misstep in choosing Darko over Melo or Wade or Bosh to rear it's head. And, their spiral hasn't ended since.

Who exactly should we have drafted over Bennet?

[PleezeBelieve]

Yea, passing on Oladipo, Porter, and McLemore will haunt this team for many years

*sarcasm off*

[FireDavidKahn]

He is the Kevin Love of PG's.:bowdown:

[noob cake]

Just stuck in a shit situation tbh.

Your team can't even make treadmill status. Contention is nowhere in sight.

None of your young teammates have superstar potential. Your team might have drafted the worst first pick of all times.

Your coach is Mike Brown and you live in Cleveland.

You and your SG hate each other.

Even a true professional like Deng thinks that your team is in complete disarray.

You are the face of the franchise, and ignorant posters on basketball forums and idiotic writers are blaming you for the Cavs' lack of success. You know that you are not LeBron, you are not Jordan. You can't will your team to success despite your clutch plays and valiant efforts in the years past. You have lost some passion for the game and are just coasting to pass time.

[Meticode]

Who exactly should we have drafted over Bennet?
Well it's hindsight now, but Noels is the obvious chance you take. We're playing badly right now, it wouldn't matter now if he's playing or not.

[BlackVVaves]

Who exactly should we have drafted over Bennet?


Yea, passing on Oladipo, Porter, and McLemore will haunt this team for many years

*sarcasm off*

Draft Noels and do what Philly has committed to doing - essentially re-molding his offensive repertoire, and red-shirting him for a year. At the very least, you have a guy that can affect the game defensively, and a cheap replacement to Andy when he's gone. Lord knows the Cavs are a struggle defensively.

[RedBlackAttack]

Statistically, he's been regressing in a pretty critical area for a point guard - FG% - every year.

This is probably the biggest mystery of his season, from a statistical perspective. One of the things that made him so unique in his first two years was his ability to score at an efficient rate for a point guard. You just don't see first year PGs scoring in the 20 point range on 48% from the field.

Now, we're seeing why it's so rare... because it is damn difficult.

I can't help but to look at possible causes of his decreased efficiency, though, and I think it is a combination of things. When you really delve into the numbers, here's what you find...

His efficiency actually hadn't fallen at all last year until his shoulder injury midway through March. Prior to that, in the first 49 games of his season, he was averaing 23 points per game on 47% from the field, an elite 41.5% from three and 85% from the line.

So, his overall efficiency was actually up in some key areas 50 games through the season last year and his scoring average was way up.

However, after he came back from the shoulder injury at the end of March, his averaged plummeted to 20 points a game on 38% FG and 30% 3PT for the final 10 games of the season. Those numbers were so bad at the end of the year, it impacted his overall season numbers to make it look like his efficiency was down all year, but that really wasn't the case.

He started this year shooting as poorly as he ended last year. He has had periods of improvement (he was pretty much on fire in December), but that consistency he had over his first two years just hasn't been there.

So, what happened to his game or the way teams were playing him for the first 50 games of last season and his rookie year as compared to his final 10 games last year and all this season?

I think, for one, teams are playing him differently. They're throwing a lot of bodies, looks and traps at him and he has struggled to adapt. There is also a lack of trust in his teammates to make teams pay for their focus on him.

Second, the personnel has changed. The shooting issues that I talked about earlier were not really an issue last year. We had Speights and Ellington... a big man and a wing who could knockdown open jumpers. Defenses had to account for them and it opened things up. Interestingly, when he came back from his shoulder injury, Speights' minutes were pretty much nonexistent. I feel like Kyrie needs a knockdown shooter at the 4 or the 5 to make his penetration game work.

Third, the gameplanning hasn't been there. The team had pretty much given up on Scott in the last 10 games last season and Mike Brown has been a disaster so far this year.

Last, I just don't see the same confidence in his jumpshot that he had in his first two years. Maybe that's because of the increased defensive attention, but even on open looks, I used to feel like every time he got one, it was falling. Now, I expect it to miss.

Very strange for a shooting slump to last this long.

[BlackVVaves]

Well it's hindsight now, but Noels is the obvious chance you take. We're playing badly right now, it wouldn't matter now if he's playing or not.

This.

[RedBlackAttack]

Draft Noels and do what Philly has committed to doing - essentially re-molding his offensive repertoire, and red-shirting him for a year. At the very least, you have a guy that can affect the game defensively, and a cheap replacement to Andy when he's gone. Lord knows the Cavs are a struggle defensively.
I was all about Noel, as most people probably remember. Still, we don't know what he's going to be and the other options that most people were talking about for the Cavs at No. 1 have been pretty awful... Len and McLemore.

Truth is, that draft was not worth tanking for in any way, shape or form unless you lucked into MCW like the Sixers did. Trey Burke has looked pretty decent too. We'll see about Noel. And Oladipo has been OK.

Everyone else? Pretty terrible. If you had a pick in the Top 10 of last year's draft, there was a high probability that you were going to pick a "bust," at least so far.

[BlackVVaves]

This is probably the biggest mystery of his season, from a statistical perspective. One of the things that made him so unique in his first two years was his ability to score at an efficient rate for a point guard. You just don't see first year PGs scoring in the 20 point range on 48% from the field.

Now, we're seeing why it's so rare... because it is damn difficult.

I can't help but to look at possible causes of his decreased efficiency, though, and I think it is a combination of things. When you really delve into the numbers, here's what you find...

His efficiency actually hadn't fallen at all last year until his shoulder injury midway through March. Prior to that, in the first 49 games of his season, he was averaing 23 points per game on 47% from the field, an elite 41.5% from three and 85% from the line.

So, his overall efficiency was actually up in some key areas 50 games through the season last year and his scoring average was way up.

However, after he came back from the shoulder injury at the end of March, his averaged plummeted to 20 points a game on 38% FG and 30% 3PT for the final 10 games of the season. Those numbers were so bad at the end of the year, it impacted his overall season numbers to make it look like his efficiency was down all year, but that really wasn't the case.

He started this year shooting as poorly as he ended last year. He has had periods of improvement (he was pretty much on fire in December), but that consistency he had over his first two years just hasn't been there.

So, what happened to his game or the way teams were playing him for the first 50 games of last season and his rookie year as compared to his final 10 games last year and all this season?

I think, for one, teams are playing him differently. They're throwing a lot of bodies, looks and traps at him and he has struggled to adapt. There is also a lack of trust in his teammates to make teams pay for their focus on him.

Second, the personnel has changed. The shooting issues that I talked about earlier were not really an issue last year. We had Speights and Ellington... a big man and a wing who could knockdown open jumpers. Defenses had to account for them and it opened things up. Interestingly, when he came back from his shoulder injury, Speights' minutes were pretty much nonexistent. I feel like Kyrie needs a knockdown shooter at the 4 or the 5 to make his penetration game work.

Third, the gameplanning hasn't been there. The team had pretty much given up on Scott in the last 10 games last season and Mike Brown has been a disaster so far this year.

Last, I just don't see the same confidence in his jumpshot that he had in his first two years. Maybe that's because of the increased defensive attention, but even on open looks, I used to feel like every time he got one, it was falling. Now, I expect it to miss.

Very strange for a shooting slump to last this long.

Superb analysis. It truly is a mystery as to why Kyrie has struggled shooting in the last year. Is it deriving from several variables, or is it simply his confidence has left him? Defenses are indeed trapping him more consistently, but I think his eagerness to make an amazing play, cross someone over, spilt a double team and make the crowd go "OOOOOOOOO!!!" is as much to blame for his overall struggle as his inefficiency. He should be looking to make a quick pass in those instances (like we see Steph Curry so masterfully doing this season), but he probes too much and it leads to broken plays and a multitude of turnovers and fast break opportunities for the opposition.

Do you think Irving's desire to solidify himself as a supreme 1v1 player has derailed him as a point guard, and player?

[lpublic_enemyl]

Just stuck in a shit situation tbh.

Your team can't even make treadmill status. Contention is nowhere in sight.

None of your young teammates have superstar potential. Your team might have drafted the worst first pick of all times.

Your coach is Mike Brown and you live in Cleveland.

You and your SG hate each other.

Even a true professional like Deng thinks that your team is in complete disarray.

You are the face of the franchise, and ignorant posters on basketball forums and idiotic writers are blaming you for the Cavs' lack of success. You know that you are not LeBron, you are not Jordan. You can't will your team to success despite your clutch plays and valiant efforts in the years past. You have lost some passion for the game and are just coasting to pass time.
Wow.... cavs organization:facepalm

[IGOTGAME]

He is the Kevin Love of PG's.:bowdown:
Let's not insult Kevin Love doe.

[RedBlackAttack]

Superb analysis. It truly is a mystery as to why Kyrie has struggled shooting in the last year. Is it deriving from several variables, or is it simply his confidence has left him? Defenses are indeed trapping him more consistently, but I think his eagerness to make an amazing play, cross someone over, spilt a double team and make the crowd go "OOOOOOOOO!!!" is as much to blame for his overall struggle as his inefficiency. He should be looking to make a quick pass in those instances (like we see Steph Curry so masterfully doing this season), but he probes too much and it leads to broken plays and a multitude of turnovers and fast break opportunities for the opposition.

Do you think Irving's desire to solidify himself as a supreme 1v1 player has derailed him as a point guard, and player?
It hasn't helped and that's one of the reasons I'm still confident he's going to be a top notch player in this league. It's funny, because when his dribble attack works, it looks beautiful. I see him break down even the most aggressive traps and that is a part of his game that makes him special. It's tough for a young player -- or any player -- to know when to use those skills and when to pass off and work for a better position. That's just a maturity thing and it's easy to forget the guy is still just 21. It's not like he's a stupid guy... just immature. I think that is contributing to some of his on-court and off-court issues and I have to think that he'll eventually grow up and see that these things are hurting him as a player.

Immaturity is part of the problem, imo. Not the whole thing though. He really needs to start trusting his teammates a little more and, if he truly can't, then the roster needs to suit his game a little better. He also needs to realize that passing the ball off doesn't mean you're out of the play. If you move the ball sharply, it will eventually come back to you maybe for a wide open shot.

A team like Portland feasts off of those kinds of defenses being overly aggressive and, though he usually passes the ball off quickly, you'll often see Lillard get the ball back for a wide open look with the shot clock winding down.

Everything looks difficult for this Cavs' team right now. They have to fight and scrap for every point. It really shouldn't look this difficult when you have talent, which I still think this roster does. It's just not meshing.