Is 94 Dream a top 5 season all time?

[moe94]

27/12/4/2stls/4blks on 53%

MVP
Finals MVP
DPotY

Lead a team to a championship without any other all-NBA players.

He took a giant shit on the league.

If not, list 5 seasons that are better, all things considered.

[SamuraiSWISH]

That I've witnessed:

Jordan '91
Jordan '92
Jordan '93
Jordan '96
Jordan '97
Jordan '98
Hakeem '94
Hakeem '95
Shaq 2k
Duncan 2k3
Wade 2k6
Kobe 2k9
LeBron 2k12

[moe94]

Is that in order, Samurai?

LAZ is coming.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Top 5 peak imo (i.e. taking only 1 season from each player). Top 5 season is highly debatable. Shaq has 2-3 seasons you could argue, Jordan has 3-4 seasons, Wilt/Russell have some seasons as well. Probably a couple seasons between Lebron, Duncan, Bird that could have a case as well.

[ImKobe]

That I've witnessed:

Jordan '91
Jordan '92
Jordan '93
Jordan '96
Jordan '97
Jordan '98
Hakeem '94
Hakeem '95
Shaq 2k
Duncan 2k3
Wade 2k6
Kobe 2k9
LeBron 2k12

Shaq 2k? You mean 2k1, when the Lakers had the 15-1 Playoff run, but I'd also put in Kobe 2k1, he was equally as important as Shaq during that historic Playoff run with b2b 45+ points 10+ rebs 3 ast in the semis and in the WCF.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BESnCrgCAAEHKku.jpg

[SamuraiSWISH]

Shaq 2k? You mean 2k1
That's why I didn't put 2k1, Kobe was a co alpha and was damn near equally as important at times. 2002, slightly less production, but Kobe was a fellow top five player in the league by that point. I can't include those when someone is playing with a fellow top five player. If LeBron won in 2011 I'd feel the same about that too.

[moe94]

2000 is, unarguably, Shaq's best season.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Is that in order, Samurai?

LAZ is coming.
No one cares about Wilt. And no it isn't in order. Just the best ones I've seen where the best player took his team to the championship and won a ring. If I had to rank them:

'93 MJ
'91 MJ
'95 Hakeem
2k Shaq
'94 Hakeem

2k3 Duncan
2k12 LeBron
'92 MJ
2k6 Wade
2k9 Kobe

2k11 Dirk
'97 MJ
'98 MJ
2k10 Kobe
2k13 LeBron

[Marlo_Stanfield]

That I've witnessed:

Jordan '91
Jordan '92
Jordan '93
Jordan '96
Jordan '97
Jordan '98
Hakeem '94
Hakeem '95
Shaq 2k
Duncan 2k3
Wade 2k6
Kobe 2k9
LeBron 2k12
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :biggums: :coleman:

[ArbitraryWater]

No one cares about Wilt. And no it isn't in order. Just the best ones I've seen where the best player took his team to the championship and won a ring. If I had to rank them:

'93 MJ
'91 MJ
'95 Hakeem
2k Shaq
'94 Hakeem

2k3 Duncan
2k12 LeBron
'92 MJ
2k6 Wade
2k9 Kobe

2k11 Dirk
'97 MJ
'98 MJ
2k10 Kobe
2k13 LeBron

Again, heavily underrating Dirk... There is no way 2011 Dirk should be under 2009 Kobe/2006 Wade...

[moe94]

Again, heavily underrating Dirk... There is no way 2011 Dirk should be under 2009 Kobe/2006 Wade...

Wade is better doe.

In fact, I'd love to here your argument for Dirk.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Again, heavily underrating Dirk... There is no way 2011 Dirk should be under 2009 Kobe/2006 Wade...
My list though ...

[secund2nun]

Kobe and Wade should not be on that list at all. Yep Dirk shits on any version of Wade and Kobe. We all saw what happened to Wade and Kobe when you took away their all star big men (first round losers).

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kobe and Wade should not be on that list at all. Yep Dirk shits on any version of Wade and Kobe. We all saw what happened to Wade and Kobe when you took away their all star big men (first round losers).
Wade didn't have Shaq in the 2006 Finals and carried the Heat to a championship.

Wade didn't have LeBron in the 2011 Finals and still almost carried the Heat to a championship.

[moe94]

Kobe and Wade should not be on that list at all. Yep Dirk shits on any version of Wade and Kobe. We all saw what happened to Wade and Kobe when you took away their all star big men (first round losers).

Yep, Dirk never had any trouble in the playoffs.

Yep, Dirk did everything by himself in 2011. He dragged trash to a championship.

:rolleyes:

[ImKobe]

Wade didn't have Shaq in the 2006 Finals and carried the Heat to a championship.

Wade didn't have LeBron in the 2011 Finals and still almost carried the Heat to a championship.
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Shaq put up the same numbers Pau did in 09 and 10 in 06, though.

[SamuraiSWISH]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Shaq put up the same numbers Pau did in 09 and 10 in 06, though.
Not in the Finals.

[Rake2204]

27/12/4/2stls/4blks on 53%

MVP
Finals MVP
DPotY

Lead a team to a championship without any other all-NBA players.

He took a giant shit on the league.

If not, list 5 seasons that are better, all things considered.I was a big David Robinson fan growing up and I used to think that season was actually Robinson's MVP to lose. Hakeem was clearly worthy, but as a fourth grader at the time, I just thought Robinson had all the momentum he needed to earn the vote.

In terms of statistics, in comparison to Hakeem's 27/12/4/2/4, Robinson churned out 30ppg, 11rpg, 5apg, 3.3bpg, and 2spg. I remember actually being just a tiny bit bummed about Dennis Rodman's rebounding prowess because that was the only thing standing between David Robinson leading his team in every single statistical category that year.

Plus, with this cover in early '94 and the MVP media momentum floating around Robinson all year, I pretty much thought it was a lock

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/1994/0307_large.jpg

In the end, with Hakeem's playoff run, it was hard for me to fight the selection (though fourth grade me still thought Robinson should have been rewarded with the regular season MVP).

Still, 30/11/5/3/2 isn't too shabby by comparison, no?

[moe94]

Still, 30/11/5/3/2 isn't too shabby by comparison, no?

You don't need to hype him up as I love Robinson as much as anyone could. :cheers:

[TheMarkMadsen]

anybody saying Dirk peaked in 2011 needs to be slapped, he was clearly on the decline he was just finally playing next to an elite defensive center, you can put all the great players around Dirk that you want but he isn't getting anything done w/o and elite defenseive center.

Dirk peaked in 06, from 06 on he was capable of leading a team to a championship

besides, peak is just an ambiguous word created for the sake of argument, "peak" means absolutely nothing. Prime is all that matters, consistent play at an elite lever sustained for numerous years over one year of "peak" play

[moe94]

besides, peak is just an ambiguous word created for the sake of argument, "peak" means absolutely nothing. Prime is all that matters, consistent play at an elite lever sustained for numerous years over one year of "peak" play

It just means best season. :coleman:

Dirk was statistically at his best way before 2011 but people like to include playoffs and whatnot. You're right, though. I mean, the same people that say he peaked in 2011 will also say Wade peaked in 09. No consistency, almost like the MVP. I guess that should be done away with, too.

[ImKobe]

Not in the Finals.

Shaq put up 14 and 10 on 61% FG in the finals, very efficient :applause:

Honestly, with Wade abusing the Mavs like he did, Shaq was hardly needed in that series in terms of scoring a lot of points, he only got double digit FGA in 3 of the 6 games

[SamuraiSWISH]

Shaq put up 14 and 10 on 61% FG in the finals, very efficient :applause:
He was normally a 22 - 24 ppg caliber scorer. 10 ppg below his averages. Wade totally carried his big ass in that Finals. Don't play mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise. D-Wade saved the Heat during those Finals. Yes with aid from refs, but the point still stands.

[ImKobe]

He was normally a 22 - 24 ppg caliber scorer. 10 ppg below his averages. Wade totally carried his big ass in that Finals. Don't play mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise.

Shaq was a 20 ppg scorer that season, had a drop in ppg in the Finals because Wade had the ball a lot more because the Mavs just couldn't stop him. Where did I imply that Wade didn't carry the Heat in that series? Of course he did.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It just means best season. :coleman:

Dirk was statistically at his best way before 2011 but people like to include playoffs and whatnot. You're right, though. I mean, the same people that say he peaked in 2011 will also say Wade peaked in 09. No consistency, almost like the MVP. I guess that should be done away with, too.

the problem is people look at box scores to determine a players best season.

Wade in 09 on a better team would produce less statistically but would have been the same player as the actual 09 Wade.

and yeah MVP shouldn't be done away with but it also shouldn't be a end all be all when comparing players for that particular season.

Nash won more MVP's than Shaq & Kobe only b/c of the constant changing criteria.

I was outraged when Wade didn't win MVP in 09, he put up better statistics in almost every category than the eventual MVP and was not given the award. MVP voting criteria changes from year to year, which is why it doesn't hold as much value to me as it may to others.

Dirk in 11 was the same player if not a little worse as Dirk in 06, he just didn't have the same pieces around him to cover up his weakness's.

Thats all it is, building around star players is about building around their weakness's.

[TheMarkMadsen]

He was normally a 22 - 24 ppg caliber scorer. 10 ppg below his averages. Wade totally carried his big ass in that Finals. Don't play mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise. D-Wade saved the Heat during those Finals. Yes with aid from refs, but the point still stands.


i've seen you down play Wade's 06 series multiple times. Yes his stats are great in that series, but watching it at the time you didn't feel like he was impacting the game at an all time elite level as much as you felt the refs were handing him free throws

[ImKobe]

i've seen you down play Wade's 06 series multiple times. Yes his stats are great in that series, but watching it at the time you didn't feel like he was impacting the game at an all time elite level as much as you felt the refs were handing him free throws

It is what it is, he found a way to get to the line A LOT and he exploited that, he did everything to win his team the title and that's all that matters.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It is what it is, he found a way to get to the line A LOT and he exploited that, he did everything to win his team the title and that's all that matters.

He found a way to get to the line that has yet to be duplicated in any playoff series since :oldlol: :oldlol:

he had more FTA than his second option had FGA

[Sarcastic]

No it's not. Jordan, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Oscar, Kareem, Lebron, and probably several others have put up more dominant seasons than Hakeem.

[NumberSix]

That's why I didn't put 2k1, Kobe was a co alpha and was damn near equally as important at times. 2002, slightly less production, but Kobe was a fellow top five player in the league by that point. I can't include those when someone is playing with a fellow top five player. If LeBron won in 2011 I'd feel the same about that too.
Sure. In the same way that sometimes Bosh plays better than LeBron.

[moe94]

No it's not. Jordan, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Oscar, Kareem, Lebron, and probably several others have put up more dominant seasons than Hakeem.

Which ones had MVP, Finals MVP and DPoTY again while leading a team of borderline scrubs to a championship?

His stats aren't even pedestrian and absolutely hang with them, too.

[NumberSix]

Which ones had MVP, Finals MVP and DPoTY again while leading a team of borderline scrubs to a championship?

His stats aren't even pedestrian and absolutely hang with them, too.
To be fair, LeBron should have won DPOY in 2012. Tyson Chandler was 3rd at best.

[moe94]

To be fair, LeBron should have won DPOY in 2012. Tyson Chandler was 3rd at best.

:roll:

[NumberSix]

:roll:
That's somehow funny? All objective evidence points to either LeBron or Dwight being the real DPOY of 2012.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Just an amazing season :bowdown:

Top 10 peak imho. '00 Shaq, '91 MJ, '77 Kareem, '67 Wilt, '86 Bird are top 5 and I don't have a clear top 10 but Dream would most definitely be in it. (would take into serious consideration players like Magic, Oscar, Bron, Duncan, Moses, Walton or Russell...)

[SHAQisGOAT]

:roll:

Pay that no mind, these Lebron fans get crazy.

[Sarcastic]

Which ones had MVP, Finals MVP and DPoTY again while leading a team of borderline scrubs to a championship?

His stats aren't even pedestrian and absolutely hang with them, too.


That's just hardware awarded by voters. Not saying he didn't deserve to win them, but the league was at one of its weakest points that year with the loss of Jordan.

I'm sorry but 27/12 with 4 blocks is not better than a someone that averages a triple double for an entire year, even if he gets awarded more hardware.

[NumberSix]

That's just hardware awarded by voters. Not saying he didn't deserve to win them, but the league was at one of its weakest points that year with the loss of Jordan.

I'm sorry but 27/12 with 4 blocks is not better than a someone that averages a triple double for an entire year, even if he gets awarded more hardware.

He was definitely better than Ewing though, right?

[moe94]

That's just hardware awarded by voters. Not saying he didn't deserve to win them, but the league was at one of its weakest points that year with the loss of Jordan.

I'm sorry but 27/12 with 4 blocks is not better than a someone that averages a triple double for an entire year, even if he gets awarded more hardware.

Really? You're going off era stats? I almost thought you had an argument.

[Legends66NBA7]

Magic and Bird are up there too.

[Y2ktors]

27/12/4/2stls/4blks on 53%

MVP
Finals MVP
DPotY

Lead a team to a championship without any other all-NBA players.

He took a giant shit on the league.

If not, list 5 seasons that are better, all things considered.

It definitely warrants consideration. Wilt's 67 season is definitely top 5.

[Sarcastic]

Really? You're going off era stats? I almost thought you had an argument.


Oh the irony. Hakeem's year will always be known as "the year Jordan didn't play" from that era. 100 years from now, it will be more known for Jordan's absence than for anything Olajuwon did.

[moe94]

Oh the irony. Hakeem's year will always be known as "the year Jordan didn't play" from that era. 100 years from now, it will be more known for Jordan's absence than for anything Olajuwon did.

And if the Knicks won, you'd be here praising Ewing. :coleman:

But yeah, if Jordan didn't retire, he'd 8peat while riding a Pegasus covered in the sweat of a dying unicorn.

[Sarcastic]

And if the Knicks won, you'd be here praising Ewing. :coleman:

But yeah, if Jordan didn't retire, he'd 8peat while riding a Pegasus covered in the sweat of a dying unicorn.


It has nothing to do with the Knicks losing. Hell even if the Knicks won, I would call it "the year Jordan didn't play". I would love the championship, but at the same time you gotta be realistic.

1993 Jordan was coming off his best Finals performance ever. You think he is losing MVP to Hakeem, after being robbed of it the year before by Barkley? :lol

[K Xerxes]

Just an amazing season :bowdown:

Top 10 peak imho. '00 Shaq, '91 MJ, '77 Kareem, '67 Wilt, '86 Bird are top 5 and I don't have a clear top 10 but Dream would most definitely be in it. (would take into serious consideration players like Magic, Oscar, Bron, Duncan, Moses, Walton or Russell...)

Top 5 IMO. I'd argue that peak Hakeem has a bigger impact overall on both of the sides than Bird, who was superior offensively but not really that close to Dream defensively. Of course it's close any way you split it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It has nothing to do with the Knicks losing. Hell even if the Knicks won, I would call it "the year Jordan didn't play". I would love the championship, but at the same time you gotta be realistic.

1993 Jordan was coming off his best Finals performance ever. You think he is losing MVP to Hakeem, after being robbed of it the year before by Barkley? :lol

:facepalm

Jordan didn't play in the 70's, early 80's, or 2000's (well crusty Mike did, but thats just being technical). Are all of the superstars rings from that era tainted, too? You know, because "Jordan didn't play"?

[Sarcastic]

:facepalm

Jordan didn't play in the 70's, early 80's, or 2000's (well crusty Mike did, but thats just being technical). Are all of the superstars rings from that era tainted, too? You know, because "Jordan didn't play"?


No. Were those years a part of his prime, the way 1994 and 1995 would have been?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No. Were those years a part of his prime, the way 1994 and 1995 would have been?

Why not? Jordan didn't play those years, either, sooo...what gives?

[moe94]

No. Were those years a part of his prime, the way 1994 and 1995 would have been?

It's a silly hypothetical. Acting like it goes without saying that he'd win is absolute disrespect to everyone in the league.

[Sarcastic]

It's a silly hypothetical. Acting like it goes without saying that he'd win is absolute disrespect to everyone in the league.


Same thing would happen if Lebron took a year or two off, and someone like Paul George won the MVP.

Hell people make excuses for why Derrick Rose was able to win in 2011, and Lebron still played that year. Is there anyone that doesn't feel Lebron would have won again if he stayed in Cleveland?

[moe94]

Dream is a lot closer to Jordan than those two are to LeBron. Come on, son.

[Sarcastic]

Dream is a lot closer to Jordan than those two are to LeBron. Come on, son.


Only because of the 2 years he had when Jordan didn't play.

[Legends66NBA7]

Oh the irony. Hakeem's year will always be known as "the year Jordan didn't play" from that era. 100 years from now, it will be more known for Jordan's absence than for anything Olajuwon did.

100 years from now there will still be ignorant people, just like there are now. People who look at those seasons in context and don't have an agenda will discuss basketball.

[Sarcastic]

100 years from now there will still be ignorant people, just like there are now. People who look at those seasons in context and don't have an agenda will discuss basketball.


Again, more irony. Moe just referenced era stats, as if they don't count or something, in this exact thread.

[moe94]

Again, more irony. Moe just referenced era stats, as if they don't count or something, in this exact thread.

Oscar > Jordan
Wilt > Jordan
Baylor > Jordan
Pettit > Jordan

[Sarcastic]

Oscar > Jordan
Wilt > Jordan
Baylor > Jordan
Pettit > Jordan


Not sure how you think Pettit had a better year than Jordan, but Wilt, Oscar, and to perhaps Baylor have arguably some of the best seasons of all time.

[Legends66NBA7]

Clyde Drexler
Kevin Johnson (twice)
John Stockton (twice)
Charles Barkley (twice)
Karl Malone (twice)
Penny Hardaway
Dennis Rodman
Patrick Ewing
David Robinson
Shaquille O'Neal

But some how, I'm supposed to care that Hakeem didn't face Jordan for 1 season ? Jordan argument tiring quick.

[moe94]

Not sure how you think Pettit had a better year than Jordan, but Wilt, Oscar, and to perhaps Baylor have arguably some of the best seasons of all time.

dem boards doe :coleman:

I mean, stats are stats, after all.

[Legends66NBA7]

Again, more irony. Moe just referenced era stats, as if they don't count or something, in this exact thread.

I don't care for either of your opinions on the matter.

Just sick of "Jordan this Jordan that" relating to players of his era.

[Sarcastic]

dem boards doe :coleman:

I mean, stats are stats, after all.


You're an advanced stat whore, aren't you? Jordan put up the highest individual PER season of all time. None of Pettit's seasons come close. Certainly Hakeem's 25.3 in 1994 wasn't touching just about every single year of Jordan's prime.

[moe94]

You're an advanced stat whore, aren't you? Jordan put up the highest individual PER season of all time. None of Pettit's seasons come close. Certainly Hakeem's 25.3 in 1994 wasn't touching just about every single year of Jordan's prime.

Wasn't PER created and it showed that Robinson and Dream had the highest so it was reworked to prop Jordan? :oldlol:

[Sarcastic]

Wasn't PER created and it showed that Robinson and Dream had the highest so it was reworked to prop Jordan? :oldlol:


Never heard about that. Link?

[moe94]

Don't quote me on it. I just remember a bunch of users saying that shit to disregard it altogether.

[Deuce Bigalow]

'62 Wilt, '62 Oscar, '67 Wilt have to be in the top 5.