Top20 perimeter defenders ever in your opinion

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Payton
Pippen
MJ
Moncrief
Artest
Rodman
Battier
Frazier
Matrix
Bowen
Pressey
Deng
Iggy
DJ
Kidd
Dumars
Alvin Robinson
Kobe
AK
Hondo

[fpliii]

Nobody's got time for that. Can you change it to top 5 or 10? :cheers:

[97 bulls]

Don't forget Bobby Jones

[aj1987]

You guy Deng and Iggy in there, but no Wade?

It's Alvin Robertson, BTW.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

You guy Deng and Iggy in there, but no Wade?

It's Alvin Robertson, BTW.
Deng and Iggy are way more fundamental and play sound defense than Wade who relies solely on athleticism and highlight plays and gambles A LOT. He prolly makes my top 50 tho.

[Micku]

No love for Michael Cooper?

[Milbuck]

I'd rather have Tony Allen on there than Shane Battier

[Andrei89]

Kobe on that list

:roll: :roll: :roll:

inb4 the gifted All Nba 1st defense because of his name.

[tmacattack33]

Avery Bradley and Speedy Claxton are two great ones who are underrated

[hahaitme]

Deng and Iggy are way more fundamental and play sound defense than Wade who relies solely on athleticism and highlight plays and gambles A LOT. He prolly makes my top 50 tho.

:biggums: We removing points from someone for having good athleticism?

[MastaKilla]

Kendall Gill?

my quick top 5

Payton
Pippen
Artest (prime)
MJ
Kobe

[Milbuck]

Kobe on that list

:roll: :roll: :roll:

inb4 the gifted All Nba 1st defense because of his name.
:oldlol: weren't you like 3 years old when Kobe was in his prime? He was a tenacious perimeter man to man defender in his prime.

[Andrei89]

:oldlol: weren't you like 3 years old when Kobe was in his prime? He was a tenacious perimeter man to man defender in his prime.

I was not three years old and I have seen all of Kobe's prime. But,

Tenacious? GTFO of here with that shit.

Abandon thread

[oarabbus]

I was not three years old and I have seen all of Kobe's prime. But,

Tenacious? GTFO of here with that shit.

Abandon thread

KOBE!

http://www.dvdlink.ca/images/Movies%20Covers/1523/7/1214091407_1214620799.jpg

[Milbuck]

Are people seriously trying to argue that Kobe wasn't an elite defender in his prime? Jameer might not be the only 11 year old on here.

[Black and White]

Are people seriously trying to argue that Kobe wasn't an elite defender in his prime? Jameer might not be the only 11 year old on here.

His current situation is clouding their memory or they really are all 10 years old

[SHAQisGOAT]

I was gonna say solid list but the omission of Michael Cooper and also Bobby Jones(guarding all types of forwards, even some guards and centers, easily more than good enough all-around perimeter D to make the list) somewhat ruins it all, those are big names/great players that should be top10 let alone top20 (in terms of perimeter D, Cooper's top5 imo). And it's Alvin Robertson btw.

My list would be, without giving it much thought (no order at all):

Moncrief
Payton
Cooper
Rodman
Pippen
Bowen
DJ
Frazier
Bobby Jones
MJ
Artest
Dumars
Kidd
Alvin Robertson
Kobe
Hondo

I've got 16 players there - and the best ones are clear - then it would be between Lebron, West, Cheeks, Battier, Kirilenko, Sloan, Tony Allen.... (may be forgetting someone)

[SHAQisGOAT]

No love for Michael Cooper?


Don't forget Bobby Jones


Again, two major omissions that remove much credibility from that list.



Are people seriously trying to argue that Kobe wasn't an elite defender in his prime? Jameer might not be the only 11 year old on here.

Kobe was a great perimeter defender at his best (defensively), let's not kid ourselves, not top 10 worthy considering everything but definitely top20.

[EllEffEll]

Michael Cooper absolutely belongs on this list, and closer to the top than the bottom IMHO.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/michael_cooper_discusses_defending_larry_bird/6523759?linksrc=story_article_yb_original_head_652 3759

And Bobby Jones is in there somewhere too.

And while I think Kobe was an above average defender in his prime, I'm not sure I could assign him a place on this list. I mean, it took him about 16 years to overtake Magic Johnson in steals even though Magic had a much shorter career, AND constantly take sh!t for being a less than stellar defender (to put it mildly).

[Marlo_Stanfield]

1.LeBron
2.Pippen
3. Moncrief


Everyone else:applause:

[navy]

Are people seriously trying to argue that Kobe wasn't an elite defender in his prime? Jameer might not be the only 11 year old on here.
He was good, but honestly he is a slightly overrated defender because he was a superstar and even Phil Jackson said he wasnt very effective even in his prime.

I dont think he has a case for the GOAT list of perimeter defenders if offense is not taken into account at all, in terms of two way players that are defenders he may be top 5.

[kshutts1]

What about Doug Christie? Or was his "prime" too short to be considered on such a list?

[PsychoBe]

http://i.minus.com/iBmpfCNORAZDf.gif

http://i.minus.com/im7wcIel4GOoO.gif

[JohnFreeman]

Kobe on that list

:roll: :roll: :roll:

inb4 the gifted All Nba 1st defense because of his name.
Sadly True. Wade deserves a lot of those

[CJ Mustard]

Are people seriously trying to argue that Kobe wasn't an elite defender in his prime? Jameer might not be the only 11 year old on here.
Kobe was never an elite defender. He was good when he actually tried, but far from elite. And he didn't deserve most of his all 1st team selections. People throw around terms like elite too often. Pippen was an elite defender, Kobe Bryant was never at that level at any point in his career.

[aj1987]

Totally forgot about LeBron. In what world is Deng a better defender than LeBron?

EDIT: NVM. Just saw op's name.

[leMVP]

This thread made me laugh

Kobe!!!!

Kobe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kobe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hahahahahahahhaha

[HOoopCityJones]

Wade fouls people.

Dirty player.

That's not Defense.

Freeman undercover Heat fan confirmed.

[Rose'sACL]

Pippen is the only SF since the 80s began who i would rank above lebron in terms of defense.


His current situation is clouding their memory or they really are all 10 years old
it is pretty funny that you're not mad at OP for not including lebron in that list but you will cry that heat trolls are the worst in every thread whic praises lebron.

[fragokota]

why not top100??? op get a life....

[Rose'sACL]

Wade fouls people.

Dirty player.

That's not Defense.

Freeman undercover Heat fan confirmed.
i thought doing anything to win games is what winners and true alphas do. KG sets a million illegal screens and everyone would have loved to have him on their team.
Bowen was a dirty player but he did his job.

[andgar923]

Kobe is easily the most inconsistent defender I've seen (that gets nods for being great).

Not only is he inconsistent, he's BAD when he's not giving two shits about defense.

And there's many times that even when he wants to play defense that he makes silly mistakes which end up hurting his team.

I think Kobe coasts about 50 percent of the time he's on defense, and plays shitty defense 25% and good the other 25%.

And that's not even when he's on his scoring bursts.

When he's on scoring mode his coasting goes up to 80% easily not giving two f*cks about playing defense.

[HOoopCityJones]

it is pretty funny that you're not mad at OP for not including lebron in that list but you will cry that heat trolls are the worst in every thread whic praises lebron.

Because he's overrated more overrated than Chick-fil-a.

Wade is the one who I see guarding the other Team's best player, not Lebron.

He prefers to block the likes of Tiago Splitter and Deeing up the significantly smaller Tony Parker. Yet only this year he was shying away from guarding Curry.

Hmm, kinda odd for the Leagues best defender.

There's only one guy Ive seen Kobe get done by and that was Iverson in 2000. But that's because Iverson was phucking everything in front of him that game. Lue did a decent job though, but that step over is still nasty til this day.

[andgar923]

Also why no KG?

Yeah I understand that he's considered a big, but he's just as damaging on the perimeter.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe is easily the most inconsistent defender I've seen (that gets nods for being great).

Not only is he inconsistent, he's BAD when he's not giving two shits about defense.

And there's many times that even when he wants to play defense that he makes silly mistakes which end up hurting his team.

I think Kobe coasts about 50 percent of the time he's on defense, and plays shitty defense 25% and good the other 25%.

And that's not even when he's on his scoring bursts.

When he's on scoring mode his coasting goes up to 80% easily not giving two f*cks about playing defense.

But you're talking about Old out of prime Kobe.

Did you really just start watching Basketball in 2011? :biggums:

[Kingwillball]

Ok there is a handful of superstars who belong on list but majority should be guys who specialized as defensive stoppers like tony Allen..anybody putting Kobe in top 5 is ridiculous btw..Lebron would be ahead of Kobe if your talking superstar defenders more versatile gives him the edge.

[HOoopCityJones]

Ok there is a handful of superstars who belong on list but majority should be guys who specialized as defensive stoppers like tony Allen..anybody putting Kobe in top 5 is ridiculous btw..Lebron would be ahead of Kobe if your talking superstar defenders more versatile gives him the edge.


Who has Lebron stopped that isn't a scrub or significantly smaller than him?


You better not say 2012.

[Big#50]

Since 89 when I started watching every ****ing day.

Bowen
Pippen
Artest
Payton
Kidd

[SHAQisGOAT]

Pippen is the only SF since the 80s began who i would rank above lebron in terms of defense.


it is pretty funny that you're not mad at OP for not including lebron in that list but you will cry that heat trolls are the worst in every thread whic praises lebron.

http://cdn.asiancorrespondent.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/KimJongUnAndDennisRodman1-621x325.jpg

Yes, he was more of a SF when he was at his absolute best overall defensively, winning DPOY's with the Pistons.
And if Bobby Jones is considered here, he was definitely better than Lebron, defensively.
Now that I really think about it, peak Artest was above, and Bowen too.
Not even sure I'd take Lebron after them, what about AK47, for example?
So yea, stop with the ignorant posts just because you've only been watching basketball since a few years ago.

[andgar923]

But you're talking about Old out of prime Kobe.

Did you really just start watching Basketball in 2011? :biggums:

Did YOU start watching ball recently?

He's ALWAYS been a low IQ defender that was lazy.

Again... when he 'wants' to play he can be great, specially at preventing the ball. But again, the main issue is his 'consistency'. I have hard time putting somebody on an all time list when they're not consistent.

He also gambles and is too aggressive when he 'wants' to play defense more than one would want him to. Which can be as bad as not playing good defense.

Go watch the games, f*ck highlight mixes. Go watch the games and you'll see him coasting for most of the defensive possessions only bucking down from time to time. He 'rests' on defense to use his energy on offense. He picks and chooses when he wants to play defense, but it should be the other way around.

MJ once said that he picks his spots offensively and rests offensively because most of his energy is concentrated on the defensive end.

I always defend Kobe's great offensive skill set. But his defense is extremely overrated.

[Kingwillball]

Who has Lebron stopped that isn't a scrub or significantly smaller than him?


You better not say 2012.

Lebron has guarded and stopped Drose to boozer on bulls but the thing is he is the biggest SF in the league as he has PF size but is not a true PF so not fair for him to constantly be banging on the block with guys who do that for a living. He can gaurd PFs but gives most 2 and 3 guys serious problems cause of his size and jumping ability along with close out speed.

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ once said that he picks his spots offensively and rests offensively because most of his energy is concentrated on the defensive end.

I always defend Kobe's great offensive skill set. But his defense is extremely overrated.
Yup. Kobe's mindset is the inverse of Jordan. I remember him saying that as well. Which makes Jordan's already superior PPG averages even more impressive given the higher amounts of energy he spent on the other end of the floor than Kobe.

Kobe, has always clearly been more interested in putting up the big time MJ-esque scoring numbers, difficult shots, hero ball, and game winners. Not taking into account that what made MJ so special putting up 32 ppg, was they were winning because he was also totally shutting his man down, while playing great swarming / rotating defense.

Kobe saves energy on defense, for offense. MJ saved energy on offense, for defense. Imagine if MJ had Kobe's mentality even if for a year. Like say the 2006 season.

Terrible supporting cast, being asked to strictly score, relax on defense, and at the absolute peak of your abilities (1991 / 1992 Jordan) ... does anyone honestly think MJ couldn't have been able to put 40 ppg in similar context, with the same mind set Kobe had that year? Especially with the newly enforced league rules for perimeter players in 2006. All those touch call free throws?

My god, I shutter to think what Jordan could have done given similar circumstances, and agenda.

[SexSymbol]

Kobe's top 5 if we're judging the ability to defend, he's one of the most athletically and physically driven players to do it. It's somewhat sad that he had to carry a huge load of team's offense while losing some of that defensive edge, so you can't put him in top 5 or 10 all-time, but anywhere 11-20 is reasonable.

[HOoopCityJones]

Excuse me , but what Amazing wing Players was Jordan shutting down aside from Reggie Miller? If he even managed that.

Pippen was arguably the only other great wing of that era, matter of fact Pippen defended opposing Team's best players.

All of this conserving energy for Defense is BS imo

[SexSymbol]

Yup. Kobe's mindset is the inverse of Jordan. I remember him saying that as well. Which makes Jordan's already superior PPG averages even more impressive given the higher amounts of energy he spent on the other end of the floor than Kobe.

Kobe, has always clearly been more interested in putting up the big time MJ-esque scoring numbers, difficult shots, hero ball, and game winners. Not taking into account that what made MJ so special putting up 32 ppg, was they were winning because he was also totally shutting his man down, while playing great swarming / rotating defense.

Kobe saves energy on defense, for offense. MJ saved energy on offense, for defense. Imagine if MJ had Kobe's mentality even if for a year. Like say the 2006 season.

Terrible supporting cast, being asked to strictly score, relax on defense, and at the absolute peak of your abilities (1991 / 1992 Jordan) ... does anyone honestly think MJ couldn't have been able to put 40 ppg in similar context, with the same mind set Kobe had that year? Especially with the newly enforced league rules for perimeter players in 2006. All those touch call free throws?

My god, I shutter to think what Jordan could have done given similar circumstances, and agenda.
Jordan loved to take quite a bit of possessions off, it seams that you haven't watched a lot of Jordan, after the first rings he only defended with great energy against opponents that he respects, that's basically what Kobe has done to age 34. There's nothing bad with that, it's extremely hard to score 30 points and defend your man well in consecutive games.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Pippen was arguably the only other great wing of that era.
:oldlol:

Perimeter players? Like: Magic, Drexler, Nique, Hill, Penny, Richmond, Mullin, Spreewell, Reggie, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Kidd ... those kind of wing players?

Yup, it was just Scottie Pippen. You've freely admitted you didn't start watching basketball until 1999. Your opinion on anything before means bupkiss.

[HOoopCityJones]

:oldlol:

Perimeter players? Like: Magic, Drexler, Nique, Hill, Penny, Richmond, Mullin, Spreewell, Reggie, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Kidd ... those kind of wing players?

Yup, it was just Scottie Pippen. You've freely admitted you didn't start watching basketball until 1999. Your opinion on anything before means bupkiss.

Half the dudes you're coat tailing on were old men, the other half weren't star level. Chris Mullens? I bet he's in your Top 10 :rolleyes: Pfft Tim Hardaway.

96' sweetie.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Half the dudes you're coat tailing on were old men, the other half weren't star level. Chris Mullens? I bet he's in your Top 10 :rolleyes: Pfft Tim Hardaway.

96' sweetie.
Who was old men in the late 80's through the 90's in that batch?

Chris Mullin was amazing. All the jock riders of Dirk? Mullin was kind of similar offensively. No one said he's in my top ten. On average I'd say the SG spot is better in the 2000s, but that's because of the influence of wannabe Jordans.

You literally made the claim that there was no perimeter stars. MJ faced prime Magic as a young buck and even stole an MVP from him. Should've had it in '89, and '90 too.

Kobe, Wade, VC, are all his wannabe children. His basketball genetic offspring.

We're seriously going to act like Drexler, Penny, Grant Hill, Dominique, and Magic Johnson weren't wingmen during Jordan's era?

[HOoopCityJones]

We're seriously going to act like Drexler, Penny, Grant Hill, Dominique, and Magic Johnson weren't wingmen during Jordan's era?


How did we get to the 80's? I thought we were talking 90's Bulls and Jordan's amazing Defense against the wing players of that era?

[SamuraiSWISH]

How did we get to the 80's? I thought we were talking 90's Bulls and Jordan's amazing Defense against the wing players of that era?
Late 80's and all through out the 90's kiddo. That's the era MJ played defense at a high level. Oh, I somehow managed to forget Gary Payton, Isiah Thomas, and Joe Dumars too. Yea, there was absolutely not great perimeter stars in the 90's besides Jordan and Pippen.

:oldlol:

[HOoopCityJones]

Late 80's and all through out the 90's kiddo. That's the era MJ played defense at a high level. Oh, I somehow managed to forget Gary Payton, Isiah Thomas, and Joe Dumars too. Yea, there was absolutely not great perimeter stars in the 90's besides Jordan and Pippen.

:oldlol:

Oh ok, I was speaking on 90's era bro. I'll give you Gary, but he was more known for his D , so what is there to really stop? He wasn't an offensive juggernaut.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Oh ok, I was speaking on 90's era bro. I'll give you Gary, but he was more known for his D , so what is there to really stop? He wasn't an offensive juggernaut.
He was putting up over 20 a game for the vast majority of his career. I already gave you some of the best perimeter players to ever play just a few posts ago: Magic, Drexler, Nique, Isiah, Penny, Hill, Reggie, Mitch. You claimed those guys didn't play in Jordan's era. That or they weren't perimeter players?

[andgar923]

Excuse me , but what Amazing wing Players was Jordan shutting down aside from Reggie Miller? If he even managed that.

Pippen was arguably the only other great wing of that era, matter of fact Pippen defended opposing Team's best players.

All of this conserving energy for Defense is BS imo

It was harder having to guard somebody like Hornaceck and Ehlo because they were constantly moving and going through screens. Players didn't stay in one spot.

"All of this conserving energy for defense is BS imo" is exactly that...you're opinion.

One more thing...

MJ didn't concentrate on shutting down one player. He was all over the place, trapping, switching off, always alert.... unlike Kobe who preserve his energy on defense.

[SamuraiSWISH]

It was harder having to guard somebody like Hornaceck and Ehlo because they were constantly moving and going through screens. Players didn't stay in one spot.

"All of this conserving energy for defense is BS imo" is exactly that...you're opinion.

One more thing...

MJ didn't concentrate on shutting down one player. He was all over the place, trapping, switching off, always alert.... unlike Kobe who preserve his energy on defense.
:applause:

[PsychoBe]

http://i.minus.com/iBmpfCNORAZDf.gif

http://i.minus.com/im7wcIel4GOoO.gif

just a reminder.

[fpliii]

I don't think MJ from 87-88 through 91-92 conserved much energy on defense. He was going all-out in every game I've seen from those years (regular season or playoffs).

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lebron wasn't even a an above average defender before 2009 :facepalm

[fpliii]

Lebron wasn't even a an above average defender before 2009 :facepalm
That's true.