Who were the biggest players Shaq ever tossed/shoved around on the court? - Clips?

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm curious to see footage of Shaq against his biggest opponents and how he used his body against them. He was between 300 and 370lbs depending on the time of his career (mostly 320-350 range). So who were his biggest opponents, and how much did they weigh? I'm talking body weight here. I know he went up against Yao, who when younger was between 280 and 290lbs (eventually filled out to just over 300), and I know he played against Sabonis who was about 290 in the NBA, who else were the big guys he played against, and anybody got any decent footage/clips of these giant vs giant matchups? I'm looking to study their battles for positioning/rebounds/etc on the floor.

[TheReal Kendall]

I don't have any clips but going off my memory Shaq used to beat those guys up.

Shaq threw a lot of bows when he would spin into the defender.

[iamgine]

I'm curious to see footage of Shaq against his biggest opponents and how he used his body against them. He was between 300 and 370lbs depending on the time of his career (mostly 320-350 range). So who were his biggest opponents, and how much did they weigh? I'm talking body weight here. I know he went up against Yao, who when younger was between 280 and 290lbs (eventually filled out to just over 300), and I know he played against Sabonis who was about 290 in the NBA, who else were the big guys he played against, and anybody got any decent footage/clips of these giant vs giant matchups? I'm looking to study their battles for positioning/rebounds/etc on the floor.
Why Shaq tho?

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Oliver Miller? How much did that guy weigh, like 450?

[CavaliersFTW]

Oliver Miller? How much did that guy weigh, like 450?
My understanding is he played between 280 and 315lbs. He'd come into seasons closer to 350 though and sort of play into shape a la Shaq. Was he strong or just fat? Anybody got any clips or games of him against Shaq?

[Leftimage]

Greg Ostertag was pretty big iirc

[IGOTGAME]

Maybe Jahidi White.

[Hoofa22]

He made Sofoklis (Bay Shaq) Schortsanitis look like a baby in a pre season game

Listed 6'9'', 350lbs

[CavaliersFTW]

Let me also open up for 'strongest' players. Really, I'm just looking to see the clips of Shaq going up against the biggest strongest guys of his era. I watch Shaq highlights, I see a lot of people post clips of him bodying up against guys like Dikembe Mutumbo or Chris Dudley, which is nice and all, but those guys were like 235lbs soaking wet, I want to see how Shaq handled the guys who were a strong 260+ or at the very least, guys who (if by chance were smaller than 260) were just notoriously strong and powerful like say, Charles Barkley. I want to see clips/footage of how Shaq used his body and strength against THOSE kind of players. Most of his highlights I've seen are not against guys of that size. And I keep searching and nobody has really made an effort to organize clips like that yet so I'm wondering if any Shaq fans know of clips off hand. Reason I ask is I've seen a lot of clips of Wilt lately against his 'biggest/strongest' competition and he literally could shove them around like rag dolls. I'm hoping to at least verify if the same was true for Shaq, and I kinda just want to see how he was throwing his weight around posting them up and what not.

[Pointguard]

Sabonis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpXIc63PxY4
Dudley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=258RK2F1N_I

Those are ugly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXqiMlFumjk
Dwight Howard

[CavaliersFTW]

He made Sofoklis (Bay Shaq) Schortsanitis look like a baby in a pre season game

Listed 6'9'', 350lbs
I DO remember that actually, that is maybe the best example of Shaq using his strength against another big body that I've seen so far actually, thanks for pointing that one out.

Here it is for others to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft0fBZwRvy8

Shaq weighed 350 during his tenure at the Cavs (he was weighed on his show "Shaq vs" that summer) - they state Sofo was listed at 310 at that time.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Brad Miller, Kevin Duckworth, and Bison Dele

I know Kevin Willis, Brad Daugherty, Patrick Ewing were pretty f'ing big too.

[CavaliersFTW]

Sabonis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpXIc63PxY4
Dudley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=258RK2F1N_I

Those are ugly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXqiMlFumjk
Dwight Howard
Thanks Pointguard, the only one of those that is an example of what I'm looking for is the Sabonis clip, but it is an impressive one thanks, Shaq gets and holds deep position on Sabonis off the ball despite Sabonis (290 at the time) pushing against him.

Showing Shaq vs Chris Dudley would be like trying to show a clip of Wilt vs Rudy LaRusso or Jerry Lucas. Not what I'm looking for for this particular thread. I'm trying to see Shaq vs big and/or notoriously strong players.

Dwight was about 265 at the time of that clip and may actually have had Shaq boxed out but missed the rebound. The play isn't long enough to see them if they battled for position or not we need to see more of that play. After the ball went in Shaq's hands Dwight didn't try to stop him or move him nor did Shaq really try to move Dwight, they were already in their spots from the very beginning of the clip so not much to deduce as far as strength goes there.

*EDIT* Also holy shit on that 3 seconds violation I just noticed that

[Leftimage]

Thanks Pointguard, the only one of those that is an example of what I'm looking for is the Sabonis clip, but it is an impressive one thanks, Shaq gets and holds deep position on Sabonis off the ball despite Sabonis (290 at the time) pushing against him.

Showing Shaq vs Chris Dudley would be like showing a clip of Wilt vs Rudy LaRusso or Jerry Lucas. Not what I'm looking for for this particular thread. I'm trying to see Shaq vs big and/or notoriously strong players.

Dwight was about 265 at the time of that clip and may actually have had Shaq boxed out but missed the rebound. The play isn't long enough to see them if they battled for position or not we need to see more of that play. After the ball went in Shaq's hands Dwight didn't try to stop him or move him nor did Shaq really try to move Dwight, they were already in their spots from the very beginning of the clip so not much to deduce here.

What you're looking for doesn't exist, but I do recall Bynum getting under his skin real good :applause: :applause:

Kobe's reaction to the shove was just lol-tastic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eri9mW56R6k

[CavaliersFTW]

What you're looking for doesn't exist, but I do recall Bynum getting under his skin real good :applause: :applause:

Kobe's reaction to the shove was just lol-tastic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eri9mW56R6k
Why don't you think it exists?

Also, I know Bynum fakes out Shaq on the other end of that play but that's actually not a bad show of strength on Shaq's part in the very start of the clip and sort of what I'm looking for for this thread, Bynum was what, 270 at that age? Shaq waits for him to get off his feet than bodies him for a putback. I want to see more clips like that if people know of them. Ideally a shoving match and battle on the ground that clearly shows mutual fighting for floor space.

[LAZERUSS]

Interesting footage...

http://www.csmonitor.com/1993/0125/25101.html/(page)/2


After the Celtics lost to the Magic, 113-94, Robert Parish said that in his 17-year career, only longtime Chicago Bulls star Artis Gilmore was physically stronger than O'Neal, but that Shaq was more athletic - "and that's a very scary thought," he said in mock seriousness. O'Neal "played very well," Parish continued. He's "very aggressive. He's a good transition player both ways, which is rare in this league. He showed me some things tonight, like the alley-oops. Once his game becomes polished he'll beco me two handfuls. He's already one handful."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPVyKfYCsEU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1utx7OxiaoU

[iamgine]

Let me also open up for 'strongest' players. Really, I'm just looking to see the clips of Shaq going up against the biggest strongest guys of his era. I watch Shaq highlights, I see a lot of people post clips of him bodying up against guys like Dikembe Mutumbo or Chris Dudley, which is nice and all, but those guys were like 235lbs soaking wet, I want to see how Shaq handled the guys who were a strong 260+ or at the very least, guys who (if by chance were smaller than 260) were just notoriously strong and powerful like say, Charles Barkley. I want to see clips/footage of how Shaq used his body and strength against THOSE kind of players. Most of his highlights I've seen are not against guys of that size. And I keep searching and nobody has really made an effort to organize clips like that yet so I'm wondering if any Shaq fans know of clips off hand. Reason I ask is I've seen a lot of clips of Wilt lately against his 'biggest/strongest' competition and he literally could shove them around like rag dolls. I'm hoping to at least verify if the same was true for Shaq, and I kinda just want to see how he was throwing his weight around posting them up and what not.
What about Hakeem, Ewing?

[CavaliersFTW]

Interesting footage...

http://www.csmonitor.com/1993/0125/25101.html/(page)/2




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPVyKfYCsEU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1utx7OxiaoU
I'm aware of these. Wilt literally, I and I do mean literally bumps and tosses the strongest and heaviest players of his era around like rag dolls. Anyone from notoriously strong players like Gus Johnson or Artis Gilmore to the massive and solid bodies known for setting bone crushing screens that most other players simply could not budge like 270lb Wayne Embry, 280lb Wes Unseld, or 290lb Bob Lanier. I've got clips of Wilt getting position and going right through all those guys like they are nothing and they are they just bounce right off him. And this in spite of only about 2% of his career existing on Film. I'd think there should be plenty examples of Shaq seeing as how much more of his career exists on film than 2%, so I want to see more of Shaq against the big guys if people can recall where the best clips are of these kinds of matchups.

[CavaliersFTW]

What about Hakeem, Ewing?
Were either notoriously strong? Hakeem and Ewing were about 240-255lbs, Hakeem used quickness, Ewing liked to stretch the floor. These guys are def decent sized centers but they aren't really in the class of size/strength I'm looking for as far looking for a good shoving match of giants is concerned. They'd be analogous to watching Wilt compete for floor space with Nate Thurmond or Walt Bellamy. I would think they wouldn't stand a chance if they tried to get in a shoving match with Shaq in deep.

[LAZERUSS]

I'm aware of these. Wilt literally, I and I do mean literally bumps and tosses the strongest and heaviest players of his era around like rag dolls. Anyone from notoriously strong players like Gus Johnson or Artis Gilmore to the massive and solid bodies known for setting bone crushing screens that most other players simply could not budge like 270lb Wayne Embry, 280lb Wes Unseld, or 290lb Bob Lanier. I've got clips of Wilt getting position and going right through all those guys like they are nothing and they are they just bounce right off him. And this in spite of only about 2% of his career existing on Film. I'd think there should be plenty examples of Shaq seeing as how much more of his career exists on film than 2%, so I want to see more of Shaq against the big guys if people can recall where the best clips are of these kinds of matchups.

I am not disputing your take on Lanier's size, but just using Lanier as an example...

http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1065131/2/index.htm


"I wouldn't say it's always been the easiest thing being seven feet and black, but never once in my life did I ever feel like I was a misfit," Chamberlain explains. "Athletics probably had a lot to do with that." Still, it is not just that he is extremely tall. Wilt's is a phenomenal, overwhelming presence. Tom LaGarde, who tops out at a mere 6'10", was a member of the 1976 U.S. Olympic team. He remembers being on court before a game in Montreal when Wilt strolled into the arena. Several people on the floor were as tall as Wilt, or nearly so. It didn't matter. Everything just stopped. Everyone just stared. Bob Lanier, 6'10", 270, one of the hugest men anywhere, filled out a questionnaire recently that asked him to cite the most memorable moment in his entire athletic career. Lanier wrote: "When Wilt Chamberlain lifted me up and moved me like a coffee cup so he could get a favorable position."

BTW, Lanier was listed at 6-11 his entire career (not 6-10), and I suspect would be listed at seven-feet with "modern" measurements.

[inclinerator]

shaq>> wilt
deal with it

[CavaliersFTW]

I am not disputing your take on Lanier's size, but just using Lanier as an example...

http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1065131/2/index.htm



BTW, Lanier was listed at 6-11 his entire career (not 6-10), and I suspect would be listed at seven-feet with "modern" measurements.
Yeah I have an audio recording of Lanier re-telling the 'moved me out the way like a coffee cup' story from his rookie season. Lanier was like Barkley, struggled with weight earlier in his career. He came into the league at 300lbs, as a rookie he 'played into shape' to about 286lbs that season. So when Wilt 'moved him like a coffee cup' (Wilt was a Laker) Wilt himself was between 300 and 310lbs, and Lanier was between 286 and 300lbs. If Lanier was cited at 6-10 yet listed 6-11 it means he probably was 6-10 or 6-10 and change without shoes, which means he'd list anywhere from 6-11 (as he did in his own era) or yes possibly even 7 foot if he played today as many in that class of height choose to do.

[CavaliersFTW]

shaq>> wilt
deal with it
That's great, I just want to see footage of Shaq against the biggest strongest of his era. If you've got some, please provide. I'd like to analyze it, so I can draw conclusions of my own on his strength.

[LAZERUSS]

shaq>> wilt
deal with it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ_Dx2KWmnM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0vCaZkULds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZIp4daEO1I


http://articles.latimes.com/1987-03-02/sports/sp-4318_1_wilt-chamberlain/3



"Wilt got hit in the face more than any human I ever saw," McGuire says. "And he never threw an elbow (in retaliation) in his life."

OK, once. Meschery remembers Wilt decking massive Clyde Lovellette with a punch that traveled about five inches. "Lovellette dropped like a dead ox," Meschery said


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075691/2/index.htm


With Chamberlain now doing what everyone expected of him all along, San Francisco fans are coming back. They like him and his perpetual-motion supporting cast, and they like winning. About the only people not happy are the Warriors' opponents. The St. Louis Hawks' 6-foot-9, 240-pound Zelmo Beaty, for example, found out recently that he can no longer take Chamberlain's great strength for granted. Unable to slow Wilt down with conventional maltreatment, Beaty tried to yank his shorts off. Chamberlain, who can press 400 pounds without breathing hard, makes it a point to control his temper, primarily because he is genuinely afraid he might kill somebody. Beaty's unethical yank, however, was too much. Wilt flicked an arm, and Beaty flew across the floor like a man shot out of a cannon. Referee Mendy Rudolph rushed over to him and said: "For God's sake, stay down, man. Don't even twitch a muscle." Beaty didn't twitch, and he is still active in the NBA.

And as Arnold Schwarzenegger about Wilt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzIu7o5NH1k

[LAZERUSS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXbuXGPdoY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrpmGuCmGnc

[CavaliersFTW]

I know Laz, I've even got examples of Wilt's strength on film not widely seen yet, im looking for clips of Shaq at this present time though not Wilt :lol

[LAZERUSS]

I know Laz, I've even got examples of Wilt's strength on film not widely seen yet, im looking for clips of Shaq at this present time though not Wilt :lol

I'm sorry to slightly derail this thread, but it is truly laughable that ignorant posters here honestly believe that Shaq was somehow stronger, or more athletic than Chamberlain.

[iamgine]

Were either notoriously strong? Hakeem and Ewing were about 240-255lbs, Hakeem used quickness, Ewing liked to stretch the floor. These guys are def decent sized centers but they aren't really in the class of size/strength I'm looking for as far looking for a good shoving match of giants is concerned. They'd be analogous to watching Wilt compete for floor space with Nate Thurmond or Walt Bellamy. I would think they wouldn't stand a chance if they tried to get in a shoving match with Shaq in deep.
Wasn't Wilt also Hakeem type who used quickness? I mean Hakeem was no slouch in the power department either.

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm sorry to slightly derail this thread, but it is truly laughable that ignorant posters here honestly believe that Shaq was somehow stronger, or more athletic than Chamberlain.
I can see why some would think that based on assumptions

Assumption 1: Every clip they watch of Shaq bodying someone, is of a player 'bigger/faster/stronger' than the players Wilt played against.

Which is basically the same as

Assumption 2: Every clip they watch of Wilt bodying someone, is of a player 'slower/weaker/less athletic' than the players they see Shaq playing against.

However, I've been watching Shaq highlights, and Wilt highlights under more scrutiny lately. I'm noticing despite my small sample pool of Wilt footage, example after example of Wilt just bumping people out of his way like they are nothing but tissue paper, and this INCLUDES the biggest or strongest players of his era, actually I notice he particularly shows off his strength against Artis in 1972 ASG and Gus Johnson in the 1969 ASG, like he asserted himself more when he played against the guys with notorious strength. The best I've seen of Shaq showing strength against other big or notoriously strong player so far was him maintaining deep position on Arvydas in the clip point guard provided. I've grown bored with seeing him toss around 235lb guys like Chris Dudley or Dikembe Mutumbo. I want to see how he tossed around guys the size of players the Big Dipper was tossing around.

[LAZERUSS]

I can see why some would think that based on assumptions

Assumption 1: Every clip they watch of Shaq bodying someone, is of a player 'bigger/faster/stronger' than the players Wilt played against.

Which is basically the same as

Assumption 2: Every clip they watch of Wilt bodying someone, is of a player 'slower/weaker/less athletic' than the players they see Shaq playing against.

However, I've been watching Shaq highlights, and Wilt highlights under more scrutiny lately. I'm noticing despite my small sample pool of Wilt footage, example after example of Wilt just bumping people out of his way like they are nothing but tissue paper, and this INCLUDES the biggest or strongest players of his era, actually I notice he particularly shows off his strength against Artis in 1972 ASG and Gus Johnson in the 1969 ASG, like he asserted himself more when he played against the guys with notorious strength. The best I've seen of Shaq showing strength against other big or notoriously strong player so far was him maintaining deep position on Arvydas in the clip point guard provided. I've grown bored with seeing him toss around 235lb guys like Chris Dudley or Dikembe Mutumbo. I want to see how he tossed around guys the size of players the Big Dipper was tossing around.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

Chamberlain probably did the above on sheer accident a few times in his career, and with no intentions of doing so.

And the reality was, the NBA would never have allowed Wilt to play that way, either. If he had been allowed to use his enormous strength like that, they would have been carrying players out in body-bags.

Hell, the NBA routinely put up "anti-Wilt" rules during his career. They most certainly would not have allowed Chamberlain to just overwhelm the entire league by sheer force. He would have made a mockery of the league, and within a few years it would have folded.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wasn't Wilt also Hakeem type who used quickness? I mean Hakeem was no slouch in the power department either.
Wilt was not particularly quick no, that was not how he played the game he actually had a habit of gathering the opposite of quick. Wilt's defining traits in his game were strength, when he was younger speed, and also always elevation. Willis Reed was a player that played with quickness, and had power at the same time like Hakeem, both were also about the same weight. If you think Hakeem qualifies as a player with an impressive amount of strength than let's see some good clips of Hakeem and Shaq wrestling for position in the paint there's got to be plenty of those out there.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt was not particularly quick no, that was not how he played the game he actually had a habit of gathering the opposite of quick. Wilt's defining traits in his game were strength, when he was younger speed, and also always elevation. Willis Reed was a player that played with quickness, and had power at the same time like Hakeem, both were also about the same weight. If you think Hakeem qualifies as a player with an impressive amount of strength than let's see some good clips of Hakeem and Shaq wrestling for position in the paint there's got to be plenty of those out there.


Just one part of a ten part series...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcAIrJfI7EM

And all ten parts are pretty much the same...

[PHILA]

How about Anthony Mason? He had the power and quickness to defend multiple positions. I would guess he weighed more than 250, particularly in his later years.


http://i.imgur.com/p6EPLYW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2kc2zwh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BJ0RTeY.jpg

[oarabbus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UeMZ9mYxZM Shaq vs. 315(?) or 303lb Muresan

[Marlo_Stanfield]

who thinks Shaq was stronger than Wilt is clearly, and i mean clearly, INSANE:biggums:

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UeMZ9mYxZM Shaq vs. 315(?) or 303lb Muresan
Damn Muresan looks weak and uncoordinated, but 300lbs is at least heavy, that's the clearest example of Shaq asserting his weight against another heavy player I've seen thus far, thanks :applause:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Zo, Ewing, Daughtery, Hakeem, DRob etc., were all more skilled (and stronger) than most of the centers Wilt (who was dominant, obviously) played against. Shaq would toss Wilt around like a rag doll, just like he did w/ every big he played against.

Don't really see why "tossing" and "shoving" people at some arbitrary weight/height ratio is all that important, or worth studying. Basketball is a skills game. :confusedshrug:

[Jameerthefear]

you aren't allowed to be as physical in the post now as back then

[CavaliersFTW]

Zo, Ewing, Daughtery, Hakeem, DRob etc., were all more skilled (and stronger) than most of the centers Wilt (who was dominant, obviously) played against. Shaq would toss Wilt around like a rag doll, just like he did w/ every big he played against.

Don't really see why "tossing" and "shoving" people at some arbitrary weight/height ratio is all that important, or worth studying. Basketball is a skills game. :confusedshrug:
See, I actually watch who Wilt is playing against, and who Shaq is playing against, and know what you assert is not true.

Nate Thurmond, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Wes Unseld, Bob Lanier, Zelmo Beaty, Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, etc etc etc

And Wilt played those guys a lot more often than Shaq faced any name you could rattle off as far as his better competition goes.

Again, I'm still trying to see how he battles big guys for position, I am trying to make a concerted effort to understand how he used his strength on the floor. Go ahead and write it off as pointless, that's your opinion. I'd like to entertain my curiosity on this topic, rather than just making pure assumptions like you.

[ProfessorMurder]

I watched a couple Magic Shaq vs. Denver Mutombo games. When Mutombo could force Shaq to catch it further away than the block, Shaq had a really tough time. If he caught it within 5 feet you're done. I always found Shaq struggled with length. If you were as big or taller but could stand your ground, you could bother him a bit.

There's a clip of Shaq just brushing off Ewing, let me try to find it.

[CavaliersFTW]

you aren't allowed to be as physical in the post now as back then
In Shaq's era you were allowed to be more physical in the post as opposed to Wilt's time. The clip Laz posted of Dikembe is an example of it, you couldn't dip your shoulder and run people over in Wilt's era, I have clips of Wilt turning his shoulder into Unseld and getting whistled immediately, same with clips of Jabbar turning his shoulder into Wilt, not even power plays, just a simple turn and touch and a whistle was blown. Meanwhile Shaq lifted people with a dipped shoulder. You could get deep position in Wilt's time but it required a much more disciplined use of your legs and behind. Elbows and shoulders we're not okay with the refs in Wilt's time for use as weapons for clearing space inside when you had the ball.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

See, I actually watch who Wilt is playing against, and who Shaq is playing against, and know what you assert is not true.

Nate Thurmond, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Wes Unseld, Bob Lanier, Zelmo Beaty, Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, etc etc etc

And Wilt played those guys a lot more often than Shaq faced any name you could rattle off as far as his better competition goes.

Again, I'm still trying to see how he battles big guys for position, I am trying to make a concerted effort to understand how he used his strength on the floor. Go ahead and write it off as pointless, that's your opinion. I'd like to entertain my curiosity on this topic, rather than just making pure assumptions like you.

You're not the only one who's watched these games, dude. I collect games as a hobby (a member of various websites where you trade/collect them). I've seen just about everything there is regarding the 60's. I can tell you with absolute certainty, the players I listed in bold were FAR less talented than crop I mentioned.

Carry on though.

[PHILA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UeMZ9mYxZM Shaq vs. 315(?) or 303lb Muresan

Also Todd MacCulloch, officially listed at 280 lbs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg95kRGw1cw&t=7m11s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkEIg-0_gD4

[CavaliersFTW]

You're not the only one who's watched these games, dude. I collect games as a hobby (a member of various websites where you trade/collect them). I've seen just about everything there is regarding the 60's. I can tell you with absolute certainty, the players I listed in bold were FAR less talented than crop I mentioned.

Carry on though.
Thurmond, Reed, Unseld, Bellamy are far less talented than Zo, and Daugherty yeah, kindly GTFO because that is horse shit. I can understand if someone points out Beaty isn't on the same level as those guys but :facepalm at mentioning Zo and Daugherty and then saying 'not even close. I don't care about what credentials you think you have, even the statement 'I've seen just about everything there is regarding the 60's' sounds very naive.

[CavaliersFTW]

Also Todd MacCulloch, officially listed at 280 lbs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg95kRGw1cw&t=7m11s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkEIg-0_gD4
Nice, so about Boerwinkles size, good find :applause:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Thurmond, Reed, Unseld, Bellamy are far less talented than Zo, and Daugherty yeah, kindly GTFO because that is horse shit. I can understand if someone points out Beaty isn't on the same level as those guys but :facepalm at mentioning Zo and Daugherty and then saying 'not even close. I don't care about what credentials you think you have, even the statement 'I've seen just about everything there is regarding the 60's' sounds very naive.

How is that "naive"?

http://ihaveplanet.com/
http://www.sport-scene.net/

Tell me which games, that are "out there", aren't listed on those websites. I'll wait.

[ProfessorMurder]

Moves Ewing like nothing at about 2:17, then an unknown dude maybe Charles Jones on the Pistons. That Ewing one shocked me when I first saw it.

http://youtu.be/IKkQoJPOMEw?t=2m16s

[plowking]

Moves Ewing like nothing at about 2:17, then an unknown dude maybe Charles Jones on the Pistons. That Ewing one shocked me when I first saw it.

http://youtu.be/IKkQoJPOMEw?t=2m16s

Nice find.

Absolutely ridiculous strength. Moved a beasty 260lbs center from one side of the key to the other with a single drop step. Ridiculous.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Moves Ewing like nothing at about 2:17, then an unknown dude maybe Charles Jones on the Pistons. That Ewing one shocked me when I first saw it.

http://youtu.be/IKkQoJPOMEw?t=2m16s

Very nice find. Wish there were MORE who uploaded his games, especially his Orlando stuff. Dude was an absolute behemoth.

[CavaliersFTW]

How is that "naive"?

http://ihaveplanet.com/
http://www.sport-scene.net/

Tell me which games, that are "out there", aren't listed on those websites. I'll wait.
There's a helluva lot more out there to see and learn about in regards to players from the 50's, 60's and 70's than just rare game film that gets traded around buddy. Tell me how I got this much footage and testimonial of Elgin Baylor, based on just the content you see on your trading sites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANH50UrlQk8

I've got about 3 or 4 more minutes of Baylor footage now too since this mix, it's due for an update once I'm no longer tied up with other projects. You haven't seen 'enough'. Not if you've formed a conclusion that Brad Daugherty is more talented than Bob Lanier, Willis Reed or Nate Thurmond you haven't.

[plowking]

As strong as all these guys are throughout history, no one can move the oafy, flat footed beast that is Aaron Gray. That guy is just immovable, and I'm not sure its intentional either. Hes just too slow and oafy to be moved.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

There's a helluva lot more out there to see and learn about in regards to players from the 50's, 60's and 70's than just rare game film that gets traded around buddy. Tell me how I got this much footage and testimonial of Elgin Baylor, based on just the content you see on your trading sites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANH50UrlQk8

I've got about 3 or 4 more minutes of Baylor footage now too since this mix, it's due for an update once I'm no longer tied up with other projects. You haven't seen 'enough'. Not if you've formed a conclusion that Brad Daugherty is more talented than Bob Lanier, Willis Reed or Nate Thurmond you haven't.

Clips can be found anywhere. I could probably find most of that stuff, in your mix, within minutes. I'm talking about FULL games. You know, actual perspective and not highlight-mixes that have been edited?

I won't derail your thread any longer, though. Do what you gotta do, man. :cheers:

[ProfessorMurder]

Nice find.

Absolutely ridiculous strength. Moved a beasty 260lbs center from one side of the key to the other with a single drop step. Ridiculous.

Yeah, just crazy. What can you even do to stop that? :oldlol: That's not even prime Shaq either.


Very nice find. Wish there were MORE who uploaded his games, especially his Orlando stuff. Dude was an absolute behemoth.

I've seen a couple pop up on mixmakers in the past, but they're not easy to find.

[ProfessorMurder]

As strong as all these guys are throughout history, no one can move the oafy, flat footed beast that is Aaron Gray. That guy is just immovable, and I'm not sure its intentional either. Hes just too slow and oafy to be moved.

I was going to say that about Fesenko. That f*cker would probably sink if you put him in a pool.

[CavaliersFTW]

Clips can be found anywhere. I could probably find most of that stuff, in your mix, within minutes. I'm talking about FULL games. You know, actual perspective and not highlight-mixes that have been edited?

I won't derail your thread any longer, though. Do what you gotta do, man. :cheers:
lol, right, what takes me years to accumulate you could easily find in 'minutes'. Prentious. Why don't you or others produce these kinds of videos enmass if footage like that is so easy and quick to find :facepalm

Like I said, your conclusions themselves about Bob Lanier, Thurmond, etc being of lesser talent than Brad Daugherty are telling enough of just how much you've 'seen' about players from that era.

[ProfessorMurder]

Cavs, this isn't thread related but off the top of your head who were some premiere players that had recurring foot problems pre-2000?

Brad Daugherty and Walton were all I could think of at the moment.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

lol, right, what takes me years to accumulate you could easily find in 'minutes'. Spoken like a truly prentious prick. Why don't you produce these kinds of videos enmass if footage like that is so easy and quick to find :facepalm

"Your" Wilt clips come from what is available via bio's, edited games, clips from the nba website, stuff I've seen.

and lol @ years. you could buy these 'rare' clips on a stockpile website. Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

[SCdac]

Averaged 23 ppg in roughly a dozen games against Yao... Shame yao was so injury prone and came into the league later than Shaq

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sports_olympics/2004-02/12/xinsrc_22fbdc881c254fb88dde4df2dc144c7b_shaq.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

"Your" Wilt clips come from what is available via bio's, edited games, clips from the nba website, stuff I've seen.

and lol @ years. you could buy these 'rare' clips on a stockpile website. Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.
Quite the contrary. "Daugherty/Zo >>> Thurmond/Reed/Unseld"

How many MVP's Daugherty/Zo got between them again?

Again, I will reiterate why not take all these easy to find clips and start sharing the wealth yourself? If it merely takes you minutes to find what has taken me years. I'm working on a couple videos right now, a Bill Russell video, Oscar, another Gus Johnson video, an offensive highlight of Wilt etc. Why not beat me to the punch, maybe you can finish a couple vids up for tomorrow, since it will only take you a couple of minutes to find most everything you will need?

:coleman:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Quite the contrary. "Daugherty/Zo >>> Thurmond/Reed/Unseld"

How many MVP's Daugherty/Zo got between them again?

Again, I will reiterate why not take all these easy to find clips and start sharing the wealth yourself? If it merely takes you minutes to find what has taken me years. I'm working on a couple videos right now, a Bill Russell video, Oscar, another Gus Johnson video, an offensive highlight of Wilt etc. Why not beat me to the punch, maybe you can finish a couple vids up for tomorrow, since it will only take you a couple of minutes to find most everything you will need?

:coleman:

First of all, that's not what I said. I said, the guys bolded were less talented. Being "greater" than someone is legacy-based (team accomplishments, awards and such).

I have no interest in plucking out clips and editing 50 year old footage for a Youtube montage. I have better things to do with my time. I just find it hilarious you think its some extraordinary feat finding stuff....that's all over the internet. :oldlol:

this is my last post on the subject (srs)

[aj1987]

Quite the contrary. "Daugherty/Zo >>> Thurmond/Reed/Unseld"

How many MVP's Daugherty/Zo got between them again?

Again, I will reiterate why not take all these easy to find clips and start sharing the wealth yourself? If it merely takes you minutes to find what has taken me years. I'm working on a couple videos right now, a Bill Russell video, Oscar, another Gus Johnson video, an offensive highlight of Wilt etc. Why not beat me to the punch, maybe you can finish a couple vids up for tomorrow, since it will only take you a couple of minutes to find most everything you will need?

:coleman:
Didn't Unseld win an MVP averaging 14/18 and Reed 21/13? Brad and Zo averaged similar numbers as Reed a bunch of times.

[CavaliersFTW]

First of all, that's not what I said. I said, the guys bolded were less talented. Being "greater" than someone is legacy-based (team accomplishments, awards and such).

I have no interest in plucking out clips and editing 50 year old footage for a Youtube montage. I have better things to do with my time. You thinking its some extradorinary feat finding stuff that's all over the internet is what's hilarious.

this is my last post on the subject (srs)
I understand the concept of talent, exactly why I find it funny that you think Daugherty was some next level talent, when he quite visibly wasn't any more talented than say, Walt Bellamy :oldlol:

[SpanishACB]

Hey CavsFan

why are strength and athletism records still being broken years after years?

[kamil]

I'm curious to see footage of Shaq against his biggest opponents.

Chris Dudley:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2ez1sf4.jpg

[LAZERUSS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZFUd_MdOa4

[dankok8]

Shaq had legs like tree trunks and thus a stronger lower body than Wilt. A lower centre of mass and the sheer weight of Shaq makes a huge difference in fighting for position. He was simply immovable under the basket.

Also Wilt was almost surely the strongest in his Laker years. In his younger prime years he looked much skinnier and he was only around 270-280 lbs am I right?

http://blog.newscom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/iconphotos010262-5980054_Wilt_.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

Shaq had legs like tree trunks and thus a stronger lower body than Wilt. A lower centre of mass and the sheer weight of Shaq makes a huge difference in fighting for position. He was simply immovable under the basket.

Also Wilt was almost surely the strongest in his Laker years. In his younger prime years he looked much skinnier and he was only around 270-280 lbs am I right?

http://blog.newscom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/iconphotos010262-5980054_Wilt_.jpg
http://www.mcpactions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/focallengtharticle.jpg

sports lenses were only starting to come into their own in the 70's, by the 90's they were extremely high zoom. Wilt only weighed about 10-20lbs more as a Laker than he did as a 76er, and that isn't much on a frame his size. Any visual differences are exaggerated by the development of sports photography lenses and the trend taht shifted from low focal lengths to high focal lengths

Also, Wilt's legs are long, not thin, his legs were just as thick and bulky as Wes Unselds - just much longer.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1203/louisville.hoops.classic.pics/images/wes-unseld2.jpg

I can post pics tonight where they are literally right next to each other, and you can see Wilt's legs are the same volume around.

Where as say, Bill Walton's legs, a guy who genuinely had pretty skinny legs, not so much:
http://a.espncdn.com/media/pg2/2002/0315/photo/s_walton_i.jpg

*EDIT* about his weight:

He probably played at anything from 285-300 from 1963-64 season on (his 5th season onward). That season he showed up to training camp at 320lbs, a combination of strength training and a small gut, he played down to 292lbs that season. 290 is the most commonly cited figure from there on out outside of his listed 275, which was his list weight since the the 1962-63 season and remained his list weight for the rest of his career. But after the 64 season that was always an underrated figure, much like Shaq being listed 325 when he was actually playing at 340+ much of that time. During is Laker years Wilt claims he played between 300 and 310lbs. I've also got an article that states Wilt would lose about 9lbs over the course of every game, just in sweat and calories burned alone. That's probably common for anyone that size putting in heavy minutes, whether it be him or Shaq or whomever. Like I said, 10lbs on a frame that size is relatively small.

[eliteballer]

Priest Lauderdale and Sabonis are probably the biggest he played against.

[CavaliersFTW]

Chris Dudley:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2ez1sf4.jpg
Come on we both know Dudley was not his biggest opponent, Dudley was 235lbs, and not notoriously strong or impressive physically by any means :lol

[jongib369]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BiOw4TWo

For his size :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BiOw4TWo

For his size :applause:

Damn...I knew that Rodman used to clean Shaq's clock on the glass (just inexcusable BTW)...but there were times in that footage when Shaq could barely budge him.

[CavaliersFTW]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1Is1o5zQTYo/UvV9nza76qI/AAAAAAAAE9E/C379mgDvNKo/s640/Sequence%252001.Still024.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FqQbwA5wjJw/UvV25sf2RII/AAAAAAAAE8s/raVj38Rq1qk/s640/Sequence%252001.Still022.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9BQz2QSDXDY/UvV254W3TWI/AAAAAAAAE80/iH-UGQxIiek/s640/Sequence%252001.Still021.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AW2RBzZuNn4/UvV25KPWzLI/AAAAAAAAE8w/oUPRM7gmYpQ/s640/Sequence%252001.Still019.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZTw7swW69eU/UvV25OvBLuI/AAAAAAAAE8g/OpN75cHkWOE/s640/Sequence%252001.Still020.jpg

Wilt's legs next to Wes Unselds, Wes probably had one of the strongest 'base's in the NBA, in his time or any time, which is what enabled him to play center despite being so short. According to my research only 6-7.5 without shoes but played in the NBA with a weight of about 280lbs. Was notorious for setting bone crushing screens and being an immovable object. Wilt takes one big step and brushes Wes off him like a featherweight on that play, and he did it with nothing but his leg power. I know Wilt may appear top heavy at a glance with his huge upper body and his (key word) relatively thin looking lower legs, but I think appearances are deceiving, his quads were still very huge, just as big as Wes Unseld's and in footage he routinely could spread out into a crouch to get extremely low and gain leverage on anyone, including even the shortest widest guys like say, Wes Unseld. I think his legs only LOOK thin on his frame because of how big the rest of him was, and how long his legs were. His muscles were high set on his legs, nearer to his core. He appears to crouch so low when he wants to get position that I'm not even sure he ever had problems with a 'high center of gravity'

So in short I'm not so sure I believe Wilt had any shortages of leg power or leverage. I don't think you get the reputation of being the 'strongest player in history' strictly based on upper body strength, I think Wilt was immensely powerful top to bottom, he could pick guys up with his arms or bump guys back with his legs it didn't matter where his strength was coming from he was just plain strong. Shaq's 'base' as it were, is built more heavily then Wilt's at a glance, but just how his power compares I don't know. Which is why I created the thread, to see what could be turned up regarding Shaq jockeying for position and using a lot of his great physical tools to do more than just bully smaller scrawny opponents like Chris Dudley and Dikembe Mutumbo.

[Euroleague]

He made Sofoklis (Bay Shaq) Schortsanitis look like a baby in a pre season game

Listed 6'9'', 350lbs

Sofo threw Shaq about 30 feet across the floor. Don't go there.

[Euroleague]

I DO remember that actually, that is maybe the best example of Shaq using his strength against another big body that I've seen so far actually, thanks for pointing that one out.

Here it is for others to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft0fBZwRvy8

Shaq weighed 350 during his tenure at the Cavs (he was weighed on his show "Shaq vs" that summer) - they state Sofo was listed at 310 at that time.

Sofo weighed 345 then.

He weighs 355 now.

[jongib369]

http://www.elmoresmithbbqsauce.com/images/slider/vWiltChamberlain2.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmfzl84DY31qcztrfo1_500.jpg

Not to derail the thread, who would defend Shaq better of the two? Idt anyone ever made shaq average below 50%....Something that Thurmond and Wilt could do to Kareem. Style difference but you never know

[LAZERUSS]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/2000208-sports-and-racing-nba/59970492?page=2

[QUOTE]From the book Tall Tales: The glory years of the NBA by Terry Pluto

BILLY CUNNINGHAM: Luke Jackson was 6-foot-10, 275 pounds and considered one of the strongest men in the NBA. We set up an arm wrestling contest between Luke and Wilt. The first time, it was no contest. Wilt just slammed Luke

[LAZERUSS]

In terms of brute stength and power, a prime Chamberlain was significantly stronger than a peak Shaq. About the only time Shaq might have been able to overpower Wilt, would have been a peak Shaq vs a young Wilt. But, there is no way a peak Shaq could have contained a young, much more athletic, Wilt at the other end, either.

What was also interesting was the fact that Wilt got bigger and stronger his entire career, and then even afterwards. Chamberlain was a massive man into his late 50's. Shaq appears to have already had a significant physical decline, and it will interesting to see what he looks like in his 50's.

[MichaelCorleone]

Lazeruss hijacking the thread to post his fairy tales excerpts of Wilt's "strength".:oldlol: :facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

Lazeruss hijacking the thread to post his fairy tales excerpts of Wilt's "strength".:oldlol: :facepalm

What is interesting about these "fairy tales" is that, one, they are virtually endless, and two, virtually no one that was around at the time, ever DISPUTED them. Don't you think that with all of the many players, coach's, and the millions of fans that saw Chamberlain, that at least one legitimate source would have come forward and disputed them?

[LAZERUSS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ_Dx2KWmnM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0vCaZkULds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZIp4daEO1I


http://articles.latimes.com/1987-03-02/sports/sp-4318_1_wilt-chamberlain/3




http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075691/2/index.htm



And as Arnold Schwarzenegger about Wilt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzIu7o5NH1k

For those that somehow believe that Shaq was stronger than Wilt...just take a look at the above links and footage...

[MichaelCorleone]

Shaq would make Wilt cry in an arm wrestling contest.

[AintNoSunshine]

Dude if you're old enough to be a Wilt stan then you should know the answer yourself, he threw everyone around like dolls:facepalm

Sabonis, Yao Ming, Mutombo just to name a few, and I only really catched him in the latter part of his career

[LAZERUSS]

A Wilt in his 50's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU43dTuMuig

[LAZERUSS]

And again, thanks to CavsFan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_93334&feature=iv&src_vid=bU43dTuMuig&v=iwvdsi6gLl8

[CavaliersFTW]

So the best clips I've seen so far against a big opponent was Shaq getting deep position on Sabonis and holding his ground.

The best clip I've seen so far against mid-sized opponent was Shaq bumping Ewing out the way.

There's the dudley and Mutumbo clips but those guys were 235lbs, very lightweight opponents in all objective honesty which we need to keep in mind.

Any of you guys turn up anything else so far?

[ProfessorMurder]

Sofo threw Shaq about 30 feet across the floor. Don't go there.

Prove it.

[MichaelCorleone]

And again, thanks to CavsFan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_93334&feature=iv&src_vid=bU43dTuMuig&v=iwvdsi6gLl8
:facepalm Just look at Wilt's competition. All skinny unathletic white guys.

[Euroleague]

Prove it.

It's on YouTube idiot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwdXDO_99BA

Another brain dead moron that does not know how to use Google........

And maybe it was only about 15-20 feet, but still, it proves the point about how much bullshit some people are talking here about Shaq "throwing Sofo around like a rag doll".

Sofo barely even touched him and Shaq was literally launched into the air.......literally launched into the freaking air........

and yes, freaking Shaq never even looked at him, never even considered even thinking about glancing over there.......he damn well KNEW BETTER.

Sofo is unparallelled.

Shaq would get completely destroyed and he knew it too. He just knew better than to end up like Nenad Krstic and end up with clips all over YouTube of him back pedaling like crazy from Sofo.

[CavaliersFTW]

It's on YouTube idiot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwdXDO_99BA

Another brain dead moron that does not know how to use Google........

And maybe it was only about 20 feet, but still, it proves the point about how much bullshit some people are talking here about Shaq "throwing Sofo around like a rag doll".

Sofo barely even touched him and Shaq was literally launched into the air.......literally launched into the freaking air........

and yes, freaking Shaq never even looked at him, never even considered even thinking about glancing over there.......he damn well KNEW BETTER.

Sofo is unparallelled.

Shaq would get completely destroyed.
Are you talking about the play where Shaq runs into the stands under nothing but his own momentum?

[Euroleague]

Are you talking about the play where Shaq runs into the stands under nothing but his own momentum?

I'm talking about the bullshit about the claims here that Shaq is stronger than Sofo. Shaq is bigger than Sofo by quite a bit, and of course he was a much better player without a doubt.

But Sofo is way a hell of a lot stronger. This whole "pushed, shoved, threw around like a rag doll" thing and bullied and then with Sofo's name put there is absurd.

Sofo would put Shaq on his ass in 2 seconds flat. Sofo would destroy Shaq in a heartbeat. He's way, way, way stronger and tougher and meaner than Shaq is. No freaking way in hell is Shaq going to "throw Sofo around like a rag doll".

WTF are you clowns on?

I am showing you a small example of what happens to anyone, including Shaq, when they start, even once or twice to put a body on Sofo. They get even a SLIGHT touch back from Sofo back on the other end of the court......an example of HIS strength, and they get knocked off the court.

And no, it's not Shaq's momentum.

It's a small and gentle love tap from Sofo.

You think Shaq's elbows are violent?

You have no freaking clue what an elbow from Sofo is like. It will put a 7-2 guy almost through the floor. No one, and I mean NO ONE, bullies Sofo. He's around 345-355 usually in his playing weight and he's mean as hell. He's Kendrick Perkins mean.

But he's strong as hell too. Bench press of 455. Shaq or anyone else in NBA history would be put to the floor in an instant if they tried to bully Sofo.

[oarabbus]

As strong as all these guys are throughout history, no one can move the oafy, flat footed beast that is Aaron Gray. That guy is just immovable, and I'm not sure its intentional either. Hes just too slow and oafy to be moved.

:lol :lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BiOw4TWo

For his size :applause:

Rodman looked like KG after getting through an 8-ball :eek:

[oarabbus]

In terms of brute stength and power, a prime Chamberlain was significantly stronger than a peak Shaq. About the only time Shaq might have been able to overpower Wilt, would have been a peak Shaq vs a young Wilt. But, there is no way a peak Shaq could have contained a young, much more athletic, Wilt at the other end, either.

What was also interesting was the fact that Wilt got bigger and stronger his entire career, and then even afterwards. Chamberlain was a massive man into his late 50's. Shaq appears to have already had a significant physical decline, and it will interesting to see what he looks like in his 50's.


So what are you trying to say, he's the strongest man to have ever lived? He's orders of magnitude stronger than the next strongest basketball players? He could arm wrestle 2 olympic powerlifters with one arm behind his back?

[Euroleague]

Chamberlain always looks more like lanky and wiry strong when he is young and then more like cut and just filled out a bit and certainly classic roided up when he is older than like just a huge monster like a Shaq or Sofo.

There is a lot of bullshit claims about Wilt's strength obviously, at least during his playing days. He never once in any game footage I have seen looks anything remotely resembling to a power player of truly epic monster proportions like Shaq, or even less like Shaq combined into a low center of gravity like Sofo.

He looks more like a 7-2 Joey Dorsey, which certainly is without any doubt a BEAST, don't get me wrong, that's a definite BEAST, more than any current NBA center for sure.

But it's nothing compared to Shaq from a purely physical standpoint power wise and physical strength wise from a brute force aspect, which is what some people here are trying to claim, and trying to claim he was "much stronger than Shaq".

Get real people.

[Fazotronic]

Chamberlain always looks more like lanky and wiry strong when he is young and then more like cut and just filled out a bit and certainly classic roided up when he is older than like just a huge monster like a Shaq or Sofo.

There is a lot of bullshit claims about Wilt's strength obviously, at least during his playing days. He never once in any game footage I have seen looks anything remotely resembling to a power player like Shaq, or even less like Shaq combined into a low center of gravity like Sofo.

He looks more like a 7-2 Joey Dorsey, which certainly is without any doubt a BEAST, don't get me wrong, that's a definite BEAST, more than any current NBA center for sure.

But it's nothing compared to Shaq.

Get real people.

:applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

Chamberlain always looks more like lanky and wiry strong when he is young and then more like cut and just filled out a bit and certainly classic roided up when he is older than like just a huge monster like a Shaq or Sofo.

There is a lot of bullshit claims about Wilt's strength obviously, at least during his playing days. He never once in any game footage I have seen looks anything remotely resembling to a power player of truly epic monster proportions like Shaq, or even less like Shaq combined into a low center of gravity like Sofo.

He looks more like a 7-2 Joey Dorsey, which certainly is without any doubt a BEAST, don't get me wrong, that's a definite BEAST, more than any current NBA center for sure.

But it's nothing compared to Shaq.

Get real people.
Footage and testimonial I have currently indicates otherwise, or should I say, the volume of clips I have of Wilt tossing people around of various sizes and strength currently outweighs what I've encountered Shaq doing, this in spite of significantly less of Chamberlain's career existing on film (only about 2%). Thus I've been asking people to reveal as much of Shaq bullying people around as they know of so I can get a better gauge of his strength.

[sd3035]

I'm talking about the bullshit about the claims here that Shaq is stronger than Sofo. Shaq is bigger than Sofo by quite a bit, and of course he was a much better player without a doubt.

But Sofo is way a hell of a lot stronger. This whole "pushed, shoved, threw around like a rag doll" thing and bullied and then with Sofo's name put there is absurd.

Sofo would put Shaq on his ass in 2 seconds flat. Sofo would destroy Shaq in a heartbeat. He's way, way, way stronger and tougher and meaner than Shaq is. No freaking way in hell is Shaq going to "throw Sofo around like a rag doll".

WTF are you clowns on?

I am showing you a small example of what happens to anyone, including Shaq, when they start, even once or twice to put a body on Sofo. They get even a SLIGHT touch back from Sofo back on the other end of the court......an example of HIS strength, and they get knocked off the court.

And no, it's not Shaq's momentum.

It's a small and gentle love tap from Sofo.

You think Shaq's elbows are violent?

You have no freaking clue what an elbow from Sofo is like. It will put a 7-2 guy almost through the floor. No one, and I mean NO ONE, bullies Sofo. He's around 345-355 usually in his playing weight and he's mean as hell. He's Kendrick Perkins mean.

But he's strong as hell too. Bench press of 455. Shaq or anyone else in NBA history would be put to the floor in an instant if they tried to bully Sofo.


lol let's not get carried away here, Shaq ran out of control into the stands. He may or may not have had to dive into the seats if that poor man's Oliver Miller guy hadn't bumped him

[Fazotronic]

Footage and testimonial I have currently indicates otherwise, or should I say, the volume of clips I have of Wilt tossing people around of various sizes and strength currently outweighs what I've encountered Shaq doing, this in spite of significantly less of Chamberlain's career existing on film (only about 2%). Thus I've been asking people to reveal as much of Shaq bullying people around as they know of so I can get a better gauge of his strength.


guess most shaq fans here in the forum didn't spend enough time collecting pictures of him to compare them to their opponents legs and other... stuff :coleman:

[Euroleague]

Footage and testimonial I have currently indicates otherwise, or should I say, the volume of clips I have of Wilt tossing people around of various sizes and strength currently outweighs what I've encountered Shaq doing, this in spite of significantly less of Chamberlain's career existing on film (only about 2%). Thus I've been asking people to reveal as much of Shaq bullying people around as they know of so I can get a better gauge of his strength.

Shaq's "bullying" was mostly offensive fouls........first get that straight. It was part of the NBA being rigged. You could spend your time a lot more wisely figuring that out.

But you don't seem to grasp it. Wilt might have had the same functional strength as or even been stronger in that way than Shaq, but he did not have the same "strength" through mass and energy, which is what you are falsely implying.

I can tell you for one thing, Shaq did not even have the same strength as Yao did. Go look up any game Shaq and Yao played. Shaq could not overpower Yao at all. He could do not. He could NOT overpower Yao.

A few times in a game, he got him. That was it. But time and time again, Yao held his space and stopped him, even completely rejected the hell out of him.

And numerous times Yao turned his back on him, lowered his shoulder, and went right to the basket and scored on him, often with a power move, or finish, often with a contact, even sometimes with a dunk.

Add it up, and he powered it through Shaq way more than Shaq ever did on Yao. He was significantly stronger than Shaq was.

Compare Yao to Howard..........go ahead.........look at the games......Howard was like a little kid. Yao was abusing him. It was a high school kid playing against a grown man. Howard stood no chance, because Yao was so much stronger.

There is a point at which functional strength, is overcome by sheer mass and energy, and you are obviously incapable of grasping that.

[mehyaM24]

....footage clearly shows wilt was a pansy. strength and power? lmao...please check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4Zrg2aPwFg....footage clearly shows shaq dunking on all centers...every shape and size. wilt? his "power" lent him just 2 rings, one as jerry west's sidekick....you put Shaq in the 60s-70s, he punks everyone, especially wilt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4Zrg2aPwFg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDv4p0p0sZY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOsITDpgeOI

....shaq's power,skill,iq > wilt's

[Euroleague]

Just looking back at those clips, Shaq is lucky he had a 7-8 wingspan. He needed it to barely finish most of the blocks and dunks......

[mehyaM24]

ya,shaq wasnt gifted with yao's height. he still ****ing destroyed him h2h.

[Euroleague]

ya,shaq wasnt gifted with yao's height. he still ****ing destroyed him h2h.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[CavaliersFTW]

Just looking back at those clips, Shaq is lucky he had a 7-8 wingspan. He needed it to barely finish most of the blocks and dunks......
Shaq had a 7-7 wingspan

[iamgine]

Footage and testimonial I have currently indicates otherwise, or should I say, the volume of clips I have of Wilt tossing people around of various sizes and strength currently outweighs what I've encountered Shaq doing, this in spite of significantly less of Chamberlain's career existing on film (only about 2%). Thus I've been asking people to reveal as much of Shaq bullying people around as they know of so I can get a better gauge of his strength.
Well, show us which one do you think is Wilt's most impressive strength feat on the court then.

[SpanishACB]

Why are people discussing strength like it's subjective?

Sofo is a bit stronger than playing Shaq because he has 3 o 4 kilograms over him.

However, in an actual fight, length matters and Shaq is much more athletic.

[ImKobe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsRd8ltKKEI

lmao

[kamil]

Come on we both know Dudley was not his biggest opponent, Dudley was 235lbs, and not notoriously strong or impressive physically by any means :lol

I just needed an excuse to post that gif, lol

[Psileas]

Αfter that Cavs-Olympiakos game, Sofo had reportedly claimed about Shaq: "I thought I was strong, but this guy is really strong". He didn't clearly state that Shaq was stronger than him, but this seemed like an implication of it.

[ProfessorMurder]

It's on YouTube idiot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwdXDO_99BA

Another brain dead moron that does not know how to use Google........

A. F*ck you. I ask you for proof and you call me a name. Glad you're so mature.

B. If that's 30 feet, you must tell women your dick is 2 feet long.

C. Shaq landed funny and did his patented 'I'm diving over people' move to avoid hurting himself and the camera guys. If the hoop support was there he would've just got his balance on that.

[Big#50]

Elbows.

[dankok8]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1Is1o5zQTYo/UvV9nza76qI/AAAAAAAAE9E/C379mgDvNKo/s640/Sequence%252001.Still024.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FqQbwA5wjJw/UvV25sf2RII/AAAAAAAAE8s/raVj38Rq1qk/s640/Sequence%252001.Still022.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9BQz2QSDXDY/UvV254W3TWI/AAAAAAAAE80/iH-UGQxIiek/s640/Sequence%252001.Still021.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AW2RBzZuNn4/UvV25KPWzLI/AAAAAAAAE8w/oUPRM7gmYpQ/s640/Sequence%252001.Still019.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZTw7swW69eU/UvV25OvBLuI/AAAAAAAAE8g/OpN75cHkWOE/s640/Sequence%252001.Still020.jpg

Wilt's legs next to Wes Unselds, Wes probably had one of the strongest 'base's in the NBA, in his time or any time, which is what enabled him to play center despite being so short. According to my research only 6-7.5 without shoes but played in the NBA with a weight of about 280lbs. Was notorious for setting bone crushing screens and being an immovable object. Wilt takes one big step and brushes Wes off him like a featherweight on that play, and he did it with nothing but his leg power. I know Wilt may appear top heavy at a glance with his huge upper body and his (key word) relatively thin looking lower legs, but I think appearances are deceiving, his quads were still very huge, just as big as Wes Unseld's and in footage he routinely could spread out into a crouch to get extremely low and gain leverage on anyone, including even the shortest widest guys like say, Wes Unseld. I think his legs only LOOK thin on his frame because of how big the rest of him was, and how long his legs were. His muscles were high set on his legs, nearer to his core. He appears to crouch so low when he wants to get position that I'm not even sure he ever had problems with a 'high center of gravity'

So in short I'm not so sure I believe Wilt had any shortages of leg power or leverage. I don't think you get the reputation of being the 'strongest player in history' strictly based on upper body strength, I think Wilt was immensely powerful top to bottom, he could pick guys up with his arms or bump guys back with his legs it didn't matter where his strength was coming from he was just plain strong. Shaq's 'base' as it were, is built more heavily then Wilt's at a glance, but just how his power compares I don't know. Which is why I created the thread, to see what could be turned up regarding Shaq jockeying for position and using a lot of his great physical tools to do more than just bully smaller scrawny opponents like Chris Dudley and Dikembe Mutumbo.

Good post. The sports lenses hypothesis sounds plausible especially if the difference in weight is only about 20 lbs. Like you said that amount of weight shouldn't make an enormous difference on a frame that large. Wilt was still immense in his younger years!

Still Shaq was much more willing to use his strength. People on this thread posted him abusing MaCulloch, Muresan, Sabonis etc. who were pretty huge. I'll add some big guys as well.

Vlade Divac - 7'1'' 260 lbs

http://youtu.be/EB8r3vG6_3k

Yao Ming - 7'6'' 310 lbs

http://youtu.be/HDv4p0p0sZY

David Robinson - 7'1'' 250 lbs

http://youtu.be/lI85iVU3xkE

[Euroleague]

Why are people discussing strength like it's subjective?

Sofo is a bit stronger than playing Shaq because he has 3 o 4 kilograms over him.

However, in an actual fight, length matters and Shaq is much more athletic.

You are a funny guy. Shaq would get wrecked in a fight with Sofo. Even freaking Barkley took Shaq down like it was nothing. Sofo would destroy Shaq.

[Euroleague]

Good post. The sports lenses hypothesis sounds plausible especially if the difference in weight is only about 20 lbs. Like you said that amount of weight shouldn't make an enormous difference on a frame that large. Wilt was still immense in his younger years!

Still Shaq was much more willing to use his strength. People on this thread posted him abusing MaCulloch, Muresan, Sabonis etc. who were pretty huge. I'll add some big guys as well.

Vlade Divac - 7'1'' 260 lbs

http://youtu.be/EB8r3vG6_3k

Yao Ming - 7'6'' 310 lbs

http://youtu.be/HDv4p0p0sZY

David Robinson - 7'1'' 250 lbs

http://youtu.be/lI85iVU3xkE

lol at Yao being 310. He admitted he was more like 350 to 360 for most of his NBA career. And it's well known that Shaq was actually more like 360 to 380 during his "prime".

Sofo's "ideal playing weight" varies from 345 to 355. But he's been around 475 or more. Hell, he was around 450 at the 2008 Olympics. Then he was down to 315 at another time.

The "listed weights" thing is a joke to go by.

Even as we know Chamberlain was listed like 235, and was well over 300 for a long time, Jabbar was listed like 225 and was more like around 275 for a long time.

The weight listings are an absolute joke. Stop using that as an argument.

[CavaliersFTW]

lol at Yao being 310. He admitted he was more like 350 to 360 for most of his NBA career. And it's well known that Shaq was actually more like 360 to 380 during his "prime".

Sofo's "ideal playing weight" varies from 345 to 355. But he's been around 475 or more. Hell, he was around 450 at the 2008 Olympics. Then he was down to 315 at another time.

The "listed weights" thing is a joke to go by.

Even as we know Chamberlain was listed like 235, and was well over 300 for a long time, Jabbar was listed like 225 and was more like around 275 for a long time.
:facepalm

Less than 300 for all his FIBA/international listed weights, and he never gained significantly in either the form of a gut or his upper body so please cite your claims. Nobody is going to take your word for it, Ming_7_6.

And 368 is the highest specific figure I've got of Shaq when reported to Lakers camp FAT after an injury. He played down to 325-340 during his Lakers years when he was in decent game form. The first half of his career was played at 300-340. As a fat ass old Cavalier he was 350lbs, probably a little heftier during his Heat years but damn was he fat and didn't look very mobile at that time. If he stepped on the court above 370 at any time during his playing career that wasn't a healthy 370, and it wasn't for very long. Shaq got careless in off seasons and during injuries with his weight but often played himself into shape.

And damn, you think Jabbar was 275!? Holy shit your assertions are just plain crazy I actually research players weights throughout their careers. Jabbar came into the NBA at 231lbs, he retired at 267lbs. More than 3/4 of his entire career was played at about 240lbs, he didn't even start packing on mass until his final few seasons when he was nearly 40. I can cite the shit I say, can you?

[Euroleague]

:facepalm

Less than 300 for all his FIBA/international listed weights, and he never gained significantly in either the form of a gut or his upper body so please cite your claims. Nobody is going to take your word for it, Ming_7_6.

And 368 is the highest specific figure I've got of Shaq when reported to Lakers camp FAT after an injury. He played down to 325-340 during his Lakers years when he was in decent game form. The first half of his career was played at 300-340. As a fat ass old Cavalier he was 350lbs, probably a little heftier during his Heat years but damn was he fat and didn't look very mobile at that time. If he stepped on the court above 370 at any time during his playing career that wasn't a healthy 370, and it wasn't for very long. Shaq got careless in off seasons and during injuries with his weight but often played himself into shape.

You are a nutcase. What part of the listings are a joke and untrue don't you comprehend?

[Milbuck]

You are a funny guy. Shaq would get wrecked in a fight with Sofo. Even freaking Barkley took Shaq down like it was nothing. Sofo would destroy Shaq.
:oldlol: You mean this fat ****ing lard factory?

http://s5.as.com/recorte/20080124dasdaibal_2/XLCO/Ies/20080124dasdaibal_2.jpg

I think if he worked hard, persevered, and fought his Burger King urges, he could one day show up for the fight.

[CavaliersFTW]

:oldlol: You mean this fat ****ing lard factory?

http://s5.as.com/recorte/20080124dasdaibal_2/XLCO/Ies/20080124dasdaibal_2.jpg

I think if he worked hard, persevered, and fought his Burger King urges, he could one day show up for the fight.
Jesus Christ that guy looks like he'd get gassed walking up a set of stairs, how the hell does he play basketball? :oldlol: