Pau Gasol, tbh.

[ImKobe]

http://swishnba.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/photo.jpg?w=300&h=300

[riseagainst]

yes. Kobe is a chucker. the most overrated superstar of all time. He was gifted all his rings by good bigs. Gasol was robbed of his 2 fmvps.

[Smook A.]

lol what was wrong with kobe

[AnaheimLakers24]

pau gasol is tied for my 2nd favorite laker of all time. dude deserves any praise he can get

[Magic 32]

In game 1 against the Celtics, Pau was literally posting up Nate Robinson in the 4th, while Kobe had ice bags on his knees.

Same thing happend in Game 6.

Same thing happend in Game 1 against Orlando.

Can we see those stats when the games were close (like say within 10 points)?

I doubt it.

[catquickspider]

That is pretty bad if you only see stats and don't actually watch the games.

Gasol was not scoring against Garnett or Perkins. It was usually off open jumpers, being set up, or garbage points.

[G-Funk]

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/05/120516-lebronkobe-chart3.jpg

[sbw19]

Different players, different roles, different shots. 1/3 of shots Kobe takes in the 4th were 3pointers (he hit 31.3% for the season in the 4th in '09), a fair number desperation or bailout. Gasol shot exactly zero for the season in the 4th.

In '09 23.6% of Kobe's makes in the 4th were assisted, Gasol? 47.7%. And here's the kicker, 27.8% of Kobe's layups were assisted, he converted 58.8% of those,, whereas 60.3% of Gasol's layups were assisted and he converted 56.8%...and 77.6% of his dunks were assisted, he converted 96% of them (156/163) vs Kobe's 51.4% (70/73) & 96% assisted/converted.

[ImKobe]

Still, 30% in the clutch is pretty bad.

[Magic 32]

Still, 30% in the clutch is pretty bad.

4th quarter doesn't necessarily mean clutch.

Example:

Kobe tried way to hard to get to 40 points in game 1 against Orlando.

He was 1-5 in the 4th.

At the same time, he was the reason the game was a blowout after 3qtrs.

36/7/7 in 30 min. (15-29 FG)

[sbw19]

I agree, on paper it is horrid. But context can and usually paint things differently. Iverson shot 39% year he took his team to the finals. On paper that's bad too if you ask me but is why you can't judge a player's performance based on stats alone without watching the game.

[Jameerthefear]

Pay carried Kobe. What else is new?

[Nick Young]

Pau Gasol didnt win a single game in the playoffs before teaming up with Kobe. Not a single game. Kobe goes down injured and Pau Gasol has sucked worse then he ever has.


That's all you need to know about Pau Gasol. He can't shoot as well as he does without Kobe out there getting him easy looks and single coverage on the low block.

[ImKobe]

Pau Gasol didnt win a single game in the playoffs before teaming up with Kobe. Not a single game. Kobe goes down injured and Pau Gasol has sucked worse then he ever has.


That's all you need to know about Pau Gasol. He can't shoot as well as he does without Kobe out there getting him easy looks and single coverage on the low block.

What? Pau's production has gone up this season, Pau is one of the most skilled big men in the league, of course he's not a great defensive player, but he can score and make plays for others from the post, a very underrated big man.

Pau's scored at least 20 points for 10 straight games, he's averaging 22 and 12 with 3 assists per game on 53% FG in those games. It's not Pau's fault that the team is mostly injured and 2nd rounders/d-leaguers get major minutes. But he's still an effective scorer and a good rebounder.

[sbw19]

Yeah, I agree u have to watch the games aswell, but looking at the numbers can certainly show a different story compared to what people remember

That's because volume scorers who create their own offense and take difficult shots are viewed differently. That's why you wouldn't mistake Deandre Jordan for an offensive juggernaut despite him shooting 65% from the field for his career.

[Warfan]

Pau Gasol didnt win a single game in the playoffs before teaming up with Kobe. Not a single game. Kobe goes down injured and Pau Gasol has sucked worse then he ever has.


That's all you need to know about Pau Gasol. He can't shoot as well as he does without Kobe out there getting him easy looks and single coverage on the low block.

He's shooting better from the field this year than last year while scoring more and playing with scrubs, not to mention he was quite a bit better in his prime than he is now. God damn I hate stans



What? Pau's production has gone up this season, Pau is one of the most skilled big men in the league, of course he's not a great defensive player, but he can score and make plays for others from the post, a very underrated big man.

Pau's scored at least 20 points for 10 straight games, he's averaging 22 and 12 with 3 assists per game on 53% FG in those games. It's not Pau's fault that the team is mostly injured and 2nd rounders/d-leaguers get major minutes. But he's still an effective scorer and a good rebounder.

:applause: Here is what an actual lakers fan looks like

[MichaelCorleone]

It's not an unwarranted accusation, Kobe does NOT deserve his FMVPs.:no:

[Lebron23]

I hope the lakers trade him to a playoffs team. Current Gasol is better than 2014 Bynum, Odom, and an injured Kobe. The lakers just sucked outside of Pau gasol. Swaggy P is one of the most overrated starters in the league. Dude is still a very inefficient scorer.

[ImKobe]

That's because volume scorers who create their own offense and take difficult shots are viewed differently. That's why you wouldn't mistake Deandre Jordan for an offensive juggernaut despite him shooting 65% from the field for his career.

It's his shot selection, he scores off put-backs and wide open dunks/layups, he can't create his own offense so he relies on his teammates to get him those looks.

While Kobe is a very gifted scorer, one of the best ever, his shot selection is often poor, especially in clutch situations. Some misses are just bad luck, like the 3 vs the Mavs in 2011 semis Game 1 to win the game, but he often pulls up from 3 with a defender on him, doesn't create enough for his teammates, though you have to give him credit for that pass to Artest to seal Game 7 in 2010. He's now a more willing passer after playing a lot of minutes at PG due to injuries, I think he would have easily averaged 7-9 assists per game for an entire season if he looked for his teammates more.

2012 was a low for him in terms of trusting his teammates, he chucked way too many shots in the regular season and he showed frustration when a teammate got the ball in the clutch instead of him, like Steve Blake's wide open corner 3 miss vs the Thunder in Game 2. And when they lost, he called out his teammates for not playing hard enough, but he's the one who's looking to shoot in close game situations, so he should own up to it when it doesn't go his way. People do realize Kobe's 7-27 on game-winning/tying shots(Playoffs) and hasn't made one since 06 vs the Suns.

And it's the same thing with his defense, he gambles for steals way too often, he doesn't respect the shooter unless it's a big time player, which is why he's a terrific on-ball defender, especially when guarding guys like Wade and Allen.

[ImKobe]

I hope the lakers trade him to a playoffs team. Current Gasol is better than 2014 Bynum, Odom, and an injured Kobe. The lakers just sucked outside of Pau gasol. Swaggy P is one of the most overrated starters in the league. Dude is still a very inefficient scorer.

Very much agreed on the Swaggy P part, he's a very likeable person off the court, but when you watch the games, he only looks to score, doesn't pass nearly as much and doesn't give 100% on the defensive end, and he's not an efficient scorer, either. To me he plays a lot like Kobe at times, but he doesn't have the skillset to do the things that the Mamba does.

[Warfan]

That's because volume scorers who create their own offense and take difficult shots are viewed differently. That's why you wouldn't mistake Deandre Jordan for an offensive juggernaut despite him shooting 65% from the field for his career.

Good point, of course u have to differentiate between someone that's scoring 30 while being the player that the defense is trying to stop compared to someone who is scoring 10 points. I kind of meant to show that even though plenty of kobe fans act like he is a clutch god, im not that surprised if the numbers don't show that he is actually that crazy clutch, and that their opinions or memories from certain games or series are biased. :cheers:

[Warfan]

It's his shot selection, he scores off put-backs and wide open dunks/layups, he can't create his own offense so he relies on his teammates to get him those looks.

While Kobe is a very gifted scorer, one of the best ever, his shot selection is often poor, especially in clutch situations. Some misses are just bad luck, like the 3 vs the Mavs in 2011 semis Game 1 to win the game, but he often pulls up from 3 with a defender on him, doesn't create enough for his teammates, though you have to give him credit for that pass to Artest to seal Game 7 in 2010. He's now a more willing passer after playing a lot of minutes at PG due to injuries, I think he would have easily averaged 7-9 assists per game for an entire season if he looked for his teammates more.

2012 was a low for him in terms of trusting his teammates, he chucked way too many shots in the regular season and he showed frustration when a teammate got the ball in the clutch instead of him, like Steve Blake's wide open corner 3 miss vs the Thunder in Game 2. And when they lost, he called out his teammates for not playing hard enough, but he's the one who's looking to shoot in close game situations, so he should own up to it when it doesn't go his way. People do realize Kobe's 7-27 on game-winning/tying shots(Playoffs) and hasn't made one since 06 vs the Suns.

And it's the same thing with his defense, he gambles for steals way too often, he doesn't respect the shooter unless it's a big time player, which is why he's a terrific on-ball defender, especially when guarding guys like Wade and Allen.

:applause:

[sbw19]

It's his shot selection, he scores off put-backs and wide open dunks/layups, he can't create his own offense so he relies on his teammates to get him those looks.

While Kobe is a very gifted scorer, one of the best ever, his shot selection is often poor...

I don't disagree with notion that Kobe's shot selection is often his achilles heel, it drove me nuts countless times in the past. But this idea that fg% equals offense needs to be rectified. More often than not it's the *threat of scoring* and not scoring itself that makes a player very dangerous late in games. Very very few players gave defenses nightmares the way Kobe in his prime did because of the scoring threat he posed, he could score from practically anywhere on the floor, create his own shot, hit his FTs, and give teammates open looks when he feels like passing (for which believe it or not he's underrated at times.)

[sbw19]

Good point, of course u have to differentiate between someone that's scoring 30 while being the player that the defense is trying to stop compared to someone who is scoring 10 points. I kind of meant to show that even though plenty of kobe fans act like he is a clutch god, im not that surprised if the numbers don't show that he is actually that crazy clutch, and that their opinions or memories from certain games or series are biased. :cheers:

No doubt, Kobe missed his fair share of shots late in games, if numbers say so that's that, if not well he still did. Depends on how you look at it, glass half-full/empty thing I suppose.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The reality is the Lakers can't even get a late first rounder for Pau Gasol. That's what the league thinks of him. Not Kobe stans.

[HOoopCityJones]

If Pau Gasol is really the player some people make him out to be, help us out and Trade one of your young stars for him, he'll contribute right away to a contender. No?

But why?, he's more valuable than Kobe...Said no ever.

[ImKobe]

The reality is the Lakers can't even get a late first rounder for Pau Gasol. That's what the league thinks of him. Not Kobe stans.

It's his contract and his injuries that have kept him from being traded.

[ImKobe]

If Pau Gasol is really the player some people make him out to be, help us out and Trade one of your young stars for him, he'll contribute right away to a contender. No?

But why?, he's more valuable than Kobe...Said no ever.

Would any team trade for Kobe right now?

[KyrieTheFuture]

Would any team trade for Kobe right now?
Maybe the knicks to get rid of Amare's contract.

[Akrazotile]

The funny thing is, these guys were both Lakers.

So youd think "Laker" fans at the very least would be like "Yeah, Gasol was a huge deal for us. If some people say he was more important than Kobe I cant blame them."

Like, imagine Spurs fans trying to literally tear down Tonyh Parker every time he outplays Duncan. Its amazing.

But Kobe has a devoted cult of personality. But these "fans" dont even care about basketball or the Lakers. Their only joy in life comes from continuously working to improve the image of Kobe Bryant among the public at large.


Its really weird.

[gts]

Kobe Bean Bryant...

Only man able to make people he doesn't even know or care about get up on a Saturday morning and argue about his greatness :lol

[HOoopCityJones]

Would any team trade for Kobe right now?

You mean an old and Injured Kobe? Why would they?

It's cute that you think you made a point though.

Who's alt are you btw?

[Akrazotile]

That's because volume scorers who create their own offense and take difficult shots are viewed differently.


Youre completely right about this. They are viewed differently.

Theyre extremely overrated.

[gts]

http://swishnba.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/photo.jpg?w=300&h=300

Was going to point out the false hoods in this logic but realized that's the idiot from England that even admits he doesn't watch the games and gets all his info from youtube..

NVM

[ImKobe]

You mean an old and Injured Kobe? Why would they?

It's cute that you think you made a point though.

Who's alt are you btw?

So, Pau isn't old and injured? :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

It's his contract and his injuries that have kept him from being traded.

He's a giant expiring contract. What's wrong with that? That's exactly what Kwame Brown was when we traded him for Pau in the first place.

[The Iron Fist]

Pau Gasol didnt win a single game in the playoffs before teaming up with Kobe. Not a single game. Kobe goes down injured and Pau Gasol has sucked worse then he ever has.


That's all you need to know about Pau Gasol. He can't shoot as well as he does without Kobe out there getting him easy looks and single coverage on the low block.
Pau hasn't even won a single game in the playoffs wearing a Laker uniform when Kobe wasn't there to guide him. Thats not a good look for all these cats saying Pau carried Kobe.

[The Iron Fist]

What? Pau's production has gone up this season, Pau is one of the most skilled big men in the league, of course he's not a great defensive player, but he can score and make plays for others from the post, a very underrated big man.

Pau's scored at least 20 points for 10 straight games, he's averaging 22 and 12 with 3 assists per game on 53% FG in those games. It's not Pau's fault that the team is mostly injured and 2nd rounders/d-leaguers get major minutes. But he's still an effective scorer and a good rebounder.

Team record again?

[imdaman99]

Maybe the knicks to get rid of Amare's contract.
DONE. Sign me up. :oldlol:

[plowking]

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/05/120516-lebronkobe-chart3.jpg

I see so many of these shot charts, with slight varying definitions that completely boosts one player up or down. You can't even take shit like this seriously anymore. I'm not sure which to believe, which to not, why to view one definition as the right one, and not the other.

There are few players I'd want taking the last shot in a game, and both of these guys are on the list.

[The Iron Fist]

The funny thing is, these guys were both Lakers.

So youd think "Laker" fans at the very least would be like "Yeah, Gasol was a huge deal for us. If some people say he was more important than Kobe I cant blame them."

Like, imagine Spurs fans trying to literally tear down Tonyh Parker every time he outplays Duncan. Its amazing.

But Kobe has a devoted cult of personality. But these "fans" dont even care about basketball or the Lakers. Their only joy in life comes from continuously working to improve the image of Kobe Bryant among the public at large.


Its really weird.

But Pau wasn't more important. Hes proven that time and time again.

[ImKobe]

He's a giant expiring contract. What's wrong with that? That's exactly what Kwame Brown was when we traded him for Pau in the first place.

Lakers also gave Marc Gasol.

People forget Pau netted the Lakers CP3 in 2011, before the small market owners started complaining and forced Stern to veto the deal. Multiple teams have wanted Pau and he's in trade rumors every season, we didn't trade him when his value was at it's highest, what a shame.

[ImKobe]

Pau hasn't even won a single game in the playoffs wearing a Laker uniform when Kobe wasn't there to guide him. Thats not a good look for all these cats saying Pau carried Kobe.

First off, Lakers had no HCA in the Playoffs last year, we played a healthy Spurs team with Andrew Goudelock getting 30 minutes a game in that series :oldlol: and we didn't have a bench. It's convenient for you to use that bs as an argument.

Secondly, where did I imply that Pau carried Kobe? It's is not what this thread is about.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Lakers also gave Marc Gasol.

People forget Pau netted the Lakers CP3 in 2011, before the small market owners started complaining and forced Stern to veto the deal. Multiple teams have wanted Pau and he's in trade rumors every season, we didn't trade him when his value was at it's highest, what a shame.


He's in trade "rumors" because nobody wants him. If he was valued deals would have been made already :confusedshrug: He was in rumors for years before the Lakers traded for him.

[ImKobe]

But Pau wasn't more important. Hes proven that time and time again.

Pau was just as important in the 2010 Playoffs, if you think otherwise you should stop posting. Game-winner on the road vs OKC in Game 6 to end the series(putback after a Kobe brick), averaged 19 12 4 with 2.6 bpg on 48% shooting against Boston, give the man his props.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Everyone knows Pau carried Kirby those two seasons. Nothing to see here.

[The Iron Fist]

First off, Lakers had no HCA in the Playoffs last year, we played a healthy Spurs team with Andrew Goudelock getting 30 minutes a game in that series :oldlol: and we didn't have a bench. It's convenient for you to use that bs as an argument.

Secondly, where did I imply that Pau carried Kobe? It's is not what this thread is about.
And your point is? They still played two games at home. Pau couldn't lead the team to one single win? FOH. Pau is supposedly the reason why the Lakers won b2b according to idiot posters here, but he can't lead his team to one single playoff victory without Kobe in the lineup.

[The Iron Fist]

Pau was just as important in the 2010 Playoffs, if you think otherwise you should stop posting. Game-winner on the road vs OKC in Game 6 to end the series(putback after a Kobe brick), averaged 19 12 4 with 2.6 bpg on 48% shooting against Boston, give the man his props.
I give the guy his props for what he did. But he in no way was the reason LA won b2b.

[ImKobe]

He's in trade "rumors" because nobody wants him. If he was valued deals would have been made already :confusedshrug: He was in rumors for years before the Lakers traded for him.

:oldlol: Lakers haven't traded him because of loyalty and because he's BFFs with Kobe, Cleveland was willing to take him, Phoenix wants him, there just aren't that many teams that need cap relief or who can put together a good deal for his big expiring contract.

[ImKobe]

And your point is? They still played two games at home. Pau couldn't lead the team to one single win? FOH. Pau is supposedly the reason why the Lakers won b2b according to idiot posters here, but he can't lead his team to one single playoff victory without Kobe in the lineup.

And how many Playoff series has Kobe won without Pau and Shaq? I'm waiting.

[ArbitraryWater]

Pau was just as important in the 2010 Playoffs, if you think otherwise you should stop posting. Game-winner on the road vs OKC in Game 6 to end the series(putback after a Kobe brick), averaged 19 12 4 with 2.6 bpg on 48% shooting against Boston, give the man his props.


?? It's like your 2 different characters posting... sometimes its the ultra kobe stan than its the super reasonable fan..

[Yao Ming's Foot]

:oldlol: Lakers haven't traded him because of loyalty and because he's BFFs with Kobe, Cleveland was willing to take him, Phoenix wants him, there just aren't that many teams that need cap relief or who can put together a good deal for his big expiring contract.

Wow a couple of teams would have taken him for nothing,,,

So valuable :roll:

[ImKobe]

?? It's like your 2 different characters posting... sometimes its the ultra kobe stan than its the super reasonable fan..

Hey, I'm a huge Kobe fan, but it would be ridiculous for me to neglect the facts.

[ImKobe]

Wow a couple of teams would have taken him for nothing,,,

So valuable :roll:

And how many teams would give up assets for Kobe? I'm waiting.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Lebron in the 4th quarters of the finals

2007: 14-31 http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=jamesle01&match=single&year_id=2007&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=SAS&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

2011: 7-21 http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=jamesle01&match=single&year_id=2011&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=DAL&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

2012: 9-26 http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=jamesle01&match=single&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=OKC&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

2013: 23-42 http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=jamesle01&match=single&year_id=2013&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=SAS&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg


Kobe in the 4th quarter of the finals

2001: 8-20 http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=single&year_id=&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=PHI&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

2002: 12-19 http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=single&year_id=2002&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=NJN&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

2004: 14-33 http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=single&year_id=2004&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=DET&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

2008: 14-34 http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=single&year_id=2008&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=BOS&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg



Yeah, I agree u have to watch the games aswell, but looking at the numbers can certainly show a different story compared to what people remember

Man this kind of crap is why LeBron and Kobe fans are at war with one another, and Jordan fans just sit back and laugh at us :lol

Who has the Jordan 4th quarter finals stats?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

And how many teams would give up assets for Kobe? I'm waiting.

All of them. He's a legend. Legends = cash. Coach Kobe is more valuable than Pau Gasol the player.

[toooo]

Lets just imagine how good Kobe's stats would be if he cherry picked his shots. Anybody who watches Kobe knows that he's the go to bail-out guy. 1 second left in the shot clock? 360 hook shot from half court. You guys who look at stats.....:facepalm :facepalm

[ImKobe]

All of them. He's a legend. Legends = cash. Coach Kobe is more valuable than Pau Gasol the player.

Knicks might give Bargs and Amare.

[The Iron Fist]

And how many Playoff series has Kobe won without Pau and Shaq? I'm waiting.
We're not talking about series. We're talking games. Pau has not won a single playoff game in which Kobe is not a part of the lineup.

Kobe has won playoff games without Shaq, and Pau.

One
Single
Game



Pau is so great, he can't win one single game without Kobe Bryant in the playoff lineup. 0-7. Think about that.

[The Iron Fist]

Lets just imagine how good Kobe's stats would be if he cherry picked his shots. Anybody who watches Kobe knows that he's the go to bail-out guy. 1 second left in the shot clock? 360 hook shot from half court. You guys who look at stats.....:facepalm :facepalm


They'd rather him pass the ball to udonis haslem, "because its the right play".

Um, no, the right play is the one that wins the game.

[ImKobe]

We're not talking about series. We're talking games. Pau has not won a single playoff game in which Kobe is not a part of the lineup.

Kobe has won playoff games without Shaq, and Pau.

One
Single
Game



Pau is so great, he can't win one single game without Kobe Bryant in the playoff lineup. 0-7. Think about that.

Oh yes, because he had great teammates when playing at Memphis, right?

And who cares about winning a Playoff game when you lose the series. Kobe without Pau & Shaq = 0 Playoff series won, choked a 3 - 1 series lead.

[ImKobe]

They'd rather him pass the ball to udonis haslem, "because its the right play".

Um, no, the right play is the one that wins the game.

Kobe's shot selection is poor. You'd have to be really stupid to defend him in that regard.

I guess these were all right plays

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLMZOVsyw1g

[The Iron Fist]

Oh yes, because he had great teammates when playing at Memphis, right?

And who cares about winning a Playoff game when you lose the series. Kobe without Pau & Shaq = 0 Playoff series won, choked a 3 - 1 series lead.


Its not about caring about winning just one playoff game, its just showing that the man lacks in being able to lead a team. You're gonna tell me Pau is so great, that he can't win one single game without Kobe? Just one game.

But do tell the teammates Kobe had from 05-07. Tell me how great they were and what Kobe elevated them too. Then, remind me how all the media picked the Lakers to finish 11th or 12th in the western conference, missing the playoffs.

[ArbitraryWater]

Hey, I'm a huge Kobe fan, but it would be ridiculous for me to neglect the facts.

:bowdown: Yes :cheers:

[The Iron Fist]

Kobe's shot selection is poor. You'd have to be really stupid to defend him in that regard.

I guess these were all right plays

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLMZOVsyw1g


So what if his shot selection is poor. Hes won many more games than hes lost. It would be a problem if he wasn't a five time champion and one of the greatest players to ever play the game. Greatness isn't always determined by coloring inside the lines.

[ArbitraryWater]

Me and a Kobe fan chatting on YouTube:

"Kobe has down-anchored his FG% by taking injudicious heat-check shots--it's as if he constantly has his own subliminal agenda to test his limits each game, instead of finding a more efficient avenue to win. It's what suffocated the Laker's championship chances in 2004, 2008 (at least with his Game 1 performance, whereat they had a chance to win, and haul in momentum in the second-hald, if a few more possessions were played efficiently), and 2012 (he definitely cost the Lakers at least 2 games with his inefficient, volume-shooting FG%). It still irks me that he never reached the 47%-shooting frontier, which he could have accomplished if a few high-scale volume-shooting performances were unaccounted for."

That's a reasonable Kobe fan right there, why can't others admit this?


My response: Thats true, if Kobe would have cared about his shot selection, I think for his career he could have shot it at 47-48%, he also had the fits&tools to average 7 assists for his career, as well as be an all time great defender... kind of sad that he didn't use all that. Otherwise, 7+ chips, more fmvp's, mvp's and top 5-7 all time possibly.

[ImKobe]

So what if his shot selection is poor. Hes won many more games than hes lost. It would be a problem if he wasn't a five time champion and one of the greatest players to ever play the game. Greatness isn't always determined by coloring inside the lines.

So, Lebron gets no credit for winning 2 rings and 2 FMVPs? You people are ridiculous :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

So what if his shot selection is poor. Hes won many more games than hes lost. It would be a problem if he wasn't a five time champion and one of the greatest players to ever play the game. Greatness isn't always determined by coloring inside the lines.

Dont you realize there was room for doing it BETTER? I mean, Kobe's a 5 time champion, so lets just ignore his flaws? Who argues like that? You guys always find a way dont you..

[The Iron Fist]

Me and a Kobe fan chatting on YouTube:

"Kobe has down-anchored his FG% by taking injudicious heat-check shots--it's as if he constantly has his own subliminal agenda to test his limits each game, instead of finding a more efficient avenue to win. It's what suffocated the Laker's championship chances in 2004, 2008 (at least with his Game 1 performance, whereat they had a chance to win, and haul in momentum in the second-hald, if a few more possessions were played efficiently), and 2012 (he definitely cost the Lakers at least 2 games with his inefficient, volume-shooting FG%). It still irks me that he never reached the 47%-shooting frontier, which he could have accomplished if a few high-scale volume-shooting performances were unaccounted for."

That's a reasonable Kobe fan right there, why can't others admit this?


My response: Thats true, if Kobe would have cared about his shot selection, I think for his career he could have shot it at 47-48%, he also had the fits&tools to average 7 assists for his career, as well as be an all time great defender... kind of sad that he didn't use all that. Otherwise, 7+ chips, more fmvp's, mvp's and top 5-7 all time possibly.


Or, if he cared about stuff like shot selection and fg%, he'd be a very passive player with less accolades. You can't just assume that if he plays one way that its guaranteed success. There is no blue print for greatness in any sport but there are many proven methods.

[ImKobe]

Me and a Kobe fan chatting on YouTube:

"Kobe has down-anchored his FG% by taking injudicious heat-check shots--it's as if he constantly has his own subliminal agenda to test his limits each game, instead of finding a more efficient avenue to win. It's what suffocated the Laker's championship chances in 2004, 2008 (at least with his Game 1 performance, whereat they had a chance to win, and haul in momentum in the second-hald, if a few more possessions were played efficiently), and 2012 (he definitely cost the Lakers at least 2 games with his inefficient, volume-shooting FG%). It still irks me that he never reached the 47%-shooting frontier, which he could have accomplished if a few high-scale volume-shooting performances were unaccounted for."

That's a reasonable Kobe fan right there, why can't others admit this?


My response: Thats true, if Kobe would have cared about his shot selection, I think for his career he could have shot it at 47-48%, he also had the fits&tools to average 7 assists for his career, as well as be an all time great defender... kind of sad that he didn't use all that. Otherwise, 7+ chips, more fmvp's, mvp's and top 5-7 all time possibly.

See, this is a reasonable fan right here :applause:

I think if he won 7 with more than 2 FMVPs he'd be top 3 all-time.


Anyways, people still think this thread is about Kobe being carried by Pau, it's about Kobe's poor shot selection and not giving Pau enough credit.

[ArbitraryWater]

Or, if he cared about stuff like shot selection and fg%, he'd be a very passive player with less accolades. You can't just assume that if he plays one way that its guaranteed success. There is no blue print for greatness in any sport but there are many proven methods.

Right, he takes smarter shots converting at a higher rate, that would surely hurt the team :facepalm Just imagine what they'd do without all his 8-24 efforts, they'd be absolutely lost ...

:coleman: :hammerhead:

[The Iron Fist]

Dont you realize there was room for doing it BETTER? I mean, Kobe's a 5 time champion, so lets just ignore his flaws? Who argues like that? You guys always find a way dont you..


Better for who? For you to gloss over stats? That is just simply not how the guy plays. His way of playing has worked for him more than the majority of the guys in the top ten of all time.

Its like you guys aren't satisfied that he has won more than most in the history of the league. But the guys that play the way you prefer, have more often than not, won less.

[The Iron Fist]

Right, he takes smarter shots converting at a higher rate, that would surely hurt the team :facepalm Just imagine what they'd do without all his 8-24 efforts, they'd be absolutely lost ...

:coleman: :hammerhead:



Smarter shots for who though? You? You aren't even on the floor. How can you sit there on your couch and dictate how a proven commodity on an NBA court should play? What are your credentials to have such say so?

[The Iron Fist]

So, Lebron gets no credit for winning 2 rings and 2 FMVPs? You people are ridiculous :oldlol:
Who said that?

Lebron won his way. Kobe won his way too.

But seeing as how lebron plays "the right way", why is he 2-2 in the finals?

[ImKobe]

Or, if he cared about stuff like shot selection and fg%, he'd be a very passive player with less accolades. You can't just assume that if he plays one way that its guaranteed success. There is no blue print for greatness in any sport but there are many proven methods.

Oh really? Kobe was scoring 30 ppg on high fg% at the beginning of last season and the Lakers were what, 5 or 6 games under .500? Coach puts him at PG for half a season, Lakers finish the season out winning 28 of their last 40 with Kobe averaging more than 7 assists per game for 2 straight months.

[ArbitraryWater]

Better for who? For you to gloss over stats? That is just simply not how the guy plays. His way of playing has worked for him more than the majority of the guys in the top ten of all time.

Its like you guys aren't satisfied that he has won more than most in the history of the league. But the guys that play the way you prefer, have more often than not, won less.

So winning a title means you couldnt have played better? There was no more room for error right? Winning Rings=Flawless?

It has worked, because he has had some great casts... not many other players can go shoot 40% in the Finals and win.. in fact, Kobe is the only one ever to do so. His 40.5% against the Celtics in 2010 is the lowest of any FMVP ever.

Nonetheless, he has had great runs from 2008-2010, but surely there were/are weaknesses, that it seems we cant even adress with a guy like you.. Your love for the players doesnt allow you to see things from an objective standpoint.

[The Iron Fist]

Oh really? Kobe was scoring 30 ppg on high fg% at the beginning of last season and the Lakers were what, 5 or 6 games under .500? Coach puts him at PG for half a season, Lakers finish the season out winning 28 of their last 40 with Kobe averaging more than 7 assists per game for 2 straight months.
Tell me about the rest of his career now.

[ImKobe]

Who said that?

Lebron won his way. Kobe won his way too.

But seeing as how lebron plays "the right way", why is he 2-2 in the finals?

2007 he was what, 24 years old and his teammates were medicore at best, going up against prime Duncan?

2011 Wasn't aggressive enough

You're acting like Kobe was perfect, please, tell me how he played the right way in 2004 and 2008 in the Finals.

[ArbitraryWater]

Smarter shots for who though? You? You aren't even on the floor. How can you sit there on your couch and dictate how a proven commodity on an NBA court should play? What are your credentials to have such say so?

What is this?? So much cop-out BULLSHIT. Now there isn't such thing as "smart shots" ? What am I even trying to argue...

[ImKobe]

What is this?? So much cop-out BULLSHIT. Now there isn't such thing as "smart shots" ? What am I even trying to argue...

The guy is a huge stan, he's not willing to admit to anything, you tell him one thing and he'll bring up something entirely different to avoid answering the previous question.

[ArbitraryWater]

2007 he was what, 24 years old and his teammates were medicore at best, going up against prime Duncan?

2011 Wasn't aggressive enough

You're acting like Kobe was perfect, please, tell me how he played the right way in 2004 and 2008 in the Finals.

This. There was no way he wins in 2007.

2011 was his "screwjob" finals, everybody's had them. Bird's had a few, Kobe's had them, Magic had one I think, Jordan in '96, only peak Shaq never really "blew" a series if I'm correct..

[The Iron Fist]

So winning a title means you couldnt have played better? There was no more room for error right? Winning Rings=Flawless?

It has worked, because he has had some great casts... not many other players can go shoot 40% in the Finals and win.. in fact, Kobe is the only one ever to do so. His 40.5% against the Celtics in 2010 is the lowest of any FMVP ever. Nonetheless, he has had great runs from 2008-2010, but surely there were/are weaknesses, that it seems we cant even adress with a guy like you.. Your love for the players doesnt allow you to see things from an objective standpoint.

Who said winning rings = flawless? And who cares if he played "better"? He won the ultimate prize.

And all champs have had great casts whether it was filled with stars, or role players. Kobe is also the only one who played against that great Celtics defense in the finals. So, yea, I'd expect % to go down once you start facing the elite teams in the playoffs. And where did I say he has no weaknesses? I didn't. You're making things up. Everyone has weaknesses. But none of that matters when you're the last man standing. I wish Kobe would play more like Magic Johnson than Michael Jordan, but he doesn't, and he still has won, multiple times when people said he wouldn't. Instead of sitting there talking about what he needed to do "better", enjoy the show.

[The Iron Fist]

What is this?? So much cop-out BULLSHIT. Now there isn't such thing as "smart shots" ? What am I even trying to argue...


You're arguing against the method of a man who has won more than most in the history of the nba. There is no guarantee your way would work for him. Why does that bother you cats so much?

[The Iron Fist]

2007 he was what, 24 years old and his teammates were medicore at best, going up against prime Duncan?

2011 Wasn't aggressive enough

You're acting like Kobe was perfect, please, tell me how he played the right way in 2004 and 2008 in the Finals.


Wait, so he was good enough with his way of winning to get to the finals, but not good enough to win?:biggums:

[ImKobe]

This. There was no way he wins in 2007.

2011 was his "screwjob" finals, everybody's had them. Bird's had a few, Kobe's had them, Magic had one I think, Jordan in '96, only peak Shaq never really "blew" a series if I'm correct..

Shaq was always solid in the Finals, hard to find a series he wasn't good in during his prime. Even in 2004 he had good numbers, though way lower than they were during the three-peat era.

[ArbitraryWater]

You're arguing against the method of a man who has won more than most in the history of the nba. There is no guarantee your way would work for him. Why does that bother you cats so much?


Soo what is it now, take a pick, could Kobe have played better or not? Because you keep saying "he did it his way", "cant argue winning" etc and then go back to cop out by saying "who says he was flawless"... are we simply not allowed to critisize him and put his runs into context? What is it?

[The Iron Fist]

Soo what is it now, take a pick, could Kobe have played better or not? Because you keep saying "he did it his way", "cant argue winning" etc and then go back to cop out by saying "who says he was flawless"... are we simply not allowed to critisize him and put his runs into context? What is it?


Criticize him all you want. Doesn't take away from what hes done. Where are your criticism posts of Kevin Garnett? Paul Pierce? Wade? Dirk? Magic? Bird? Jordan? Zeke? Wilt? Duncan? lebron?

They all could have played better in the seasons they were champions right?

[ImKobe]

Wait, so he was good enough with his way of winning to get to the finals, but not good enough to win?:biggums:

And again, spinning bs. Lebron got to the 2007 Finals because the Eastern Conference wasn't really that tough, and he had one of the best series ever against the Pistons, the Cavs just weren't good nor experienced enough to beat the Spurs, who had Duncan, Manu and Parker in their primes, coached by Gregg Popovich, the starting PG for the Cavs was a rookie, who got abused by Parker, Spurs just packed the paint and forced Lebron to shoot long-range shots, he wasn't a consistent jumpshooter.


Kobe and Lebron both have had 2 bad Finals series, I don't see why I should even discuss this further.

[secund2nun]

kobe= overrated first round loser without an elite front court.

Kobe is not even a top 20 player of all time.

[ImKobe]

kobe= overrated first round loser without an elite front court.

Kobe is not even a top 20 player of all time.

God I love this troll :oldlol:

[The Iron Fist]

And again, spinning bs. Lebron got to the 2007 Finals because the Eastern Conference wasn't really that tough, and he had one of the best series ever against the Pistons, the Cavs just weren't good nor experienced enough to beat the Spurs, who had Duncan, Manu and Parker in their primes, coached by Gregg Popovich, the starting PG for the Cavs was a rookie, who got abused by Parker, Spurs just packed the paint and forced Lebron to shoot long-range shots, he wasn't a consistent jumpshooter.


Kobe and Lebron both have had 2 bad Finals series, I don't see why I should even discuss this further.


But lebron was successful his way. Kobe was successful in his. What could lebron have done better in the last two finals? Everyone can play better right?

[KyrieTheFuture]

Who said that?

Lebron won his way. Kobe won his way too.

But seeing as how lebron plays "the right way", why is he 2-2 in the finals?
Why would you rather lose in the first round than the finals?

[The Iron Fist]

Criticize him all you want. Doesn't take away from what hes done. Where are your criticism posts of Kevin Garnett? Paul Pierce? Wade? Dirk? Magic? Bird? Jordan? Zeke? Wilt? Duncan? lebron?

They all could have played better in the seasons they were champions right?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GF0cblslyW0/UAdXw6uS-sI/AAAAAAAADkc/RLFQDJcfRg0/s1600/O-Brother--Where-Art-Thou--movies-72431_1024_768.jpg

[The Iron Fist]

Why would you rather lose in the first round than the finals?
The **** kinda question is that?

Would you rather play in the east or the west to be successful? Would you rather play a 50 win team or a 39 win team?

[ArbitraryWater]

Criticize him all you want. Doesn't take away from what hes done. Where are your criticism posts of Kevin Garnett? Paul Pierce? Wade? Dirk? Magic? Bird? Jordan? Zeke? Wilt? Duncan? lebron?

They all could have played better in the seasons they were champions right?

Hm, nah not really. Dirk in 2011 could have played better in the Finals, but Jordan from 1991-1993, Duncan 2003, LeBron 2012, Bird 1984&1986, Magic 1987 were just about as good as it gets... aside from Bird's&Magic's lack of "eliteness" on the defensive end. Could add Wilt 1967 as well.

There is a reason Zeke isn't ranked up there with those or Kobe, he simply wasnt as dominant in his runs.... Same for Paul Pierce, or do you rank him in Dirk's tier all time, because they both have 1 FMVP's and had "their way of doing it" ?... Please dont dodge the question.

How would you call that? Am I now "taking away" from his runs? Its simply putting things in perspective.

And I dont think people would even try to debate that the other player's runs were as great, its just, kobe stans like you, do. Thats why a guy like me needs to (try) discuss it in the first place.

[ImKobe]

But lebron was successful his way. Kobe was successful in his. What could lebron have done better in the last two finals? Everyone can play better right?


What? Lebron was good enough for his team to win the last 2 Finals, same with Kobe. It's only worth criticizing when you don't win, but since both have 2 FMVPs and multiple rings, you can't really take anything away from them. They both know how to win.

[ArbitraryWater]

kobe= overrated first round loser without an elite front court.

Kobe is not even a top 20 player of all time.

Can't go that route, he's won, he proved it. He's borderline top 15.

We can however put those runs in context, dear mr iron fist..

[KyrieTheFuture]

The **** kinda question is that?

Would you rather play in the east or the west to be successful? Would you rather play a 50 win team or a 39 win team?
You're talking about finals record like losing in the finals is for some reason worse than losing in the first round.

[The Iron Fist]

Hm, nah not really. Dirk in 2011 could have played better in the Finals, but Jordan from 1991-1993, Duncan 2003, LeBron 2012, Bird 1984&1986, Magic 1987 were just about as good as it gets... aside from Bird's lack of "eliteness" on the defensive end. Could add Wilt 1967 as well.

There is a reason Zeke isn't ranked up there with those or Kobe, he simply wasnt as dominant in his runs.... Same for Paul Pierce, or do you rank him in Dirk's tier all time, because they both have 1 FMVP's and had "their way of doing it" ?... Please dont dodge the question.

How would you call that? Am I now "taking away" from his runs? Its simply putting things in perspective.

And I dont think people would even try to debate that the other player's runs were as great, its just, kobe stans like you, do. Thats why a guy like me needs to (try) discuss it in the first place.


Dont you realize there was room for doing it BETTER?

GTFOH. Its clear you hold Kobe to a different standard. Its not enough that he won 5 times, he, according to you, should have won 7 or more times, and shot a better %.

Mention anyone else in history though, and "its just about as good as it gets".

Just minutes after saying, "Dont you realize there was room for doing it BETTER?"

:facepalm

Now lets go on to Zeke. He played, "the right way", but he wasn't dominant enough to be on your list.

You just can't make this shit up.

[The Iron Fist]

You're talking about finals record like losing in the finals is for some reason worse than losing in the first round.


The same as people equating losing in the first round in the west to winning in the first round in the east. "can't get out of the first round blah blah blah"
They are not remotely the same. The east many times, has one or more .500 or worst teams in the playoffs. The west, not nearly as much.


But then again, context doesn't matter to you.

[The Iron Fist]

What? Lebron was good enough for his team to win the last 2 Finals, same with Kobe. It's only worth criticizing when you don't win, but since both have 2 FMVPs and multiple rings, you can't really take anything away from them. They both know how to win.
So then what are you crying about then? You guys are yammering on about how Kobe could have done better in his back to back finals run.

[ArbitraryWater]

GTFOH. Its clear you hold Kobe to a different standard. Its not enough that he won 5 times, he, according to you, should have won 7 or more times, and shot a better %.

Mention anyone else in history though, and "its just about as good as it gets".

Just minutes after saying, "Dont you realize there was room for doing it BETTER?"

:facepalm

Now lets go on to Zeke. He played, "the right way", but he wasn't dominant enough to be on your list.

You just can't make this shit up.


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: You DONT think Jordan from 1991-1993, Shaq 200-2002, Bird 1984&1986, etc. are some of the most dominant and flawless runs ever??? WTF, had Kobe converted at some 50% ish he'd be right up there... name me any singificant flaws those guys had during their run. Were they NOT better?

Do you or do you not, have Isiah ranked in the top 10 for leading 2 teams to a title? IF NOT, WHY NOT? Is Paul Pierce ranked among Dirk all time? IF NOT, WHY NOT?


"Mention anyone else in history though and its as good as it gets" Smh just acknowledging some of the greatest runs this game has seen..

But NO, it would be sacrilegious for them to be put above Kobe's!!!
Lets just SIMPLIFY this whole thing, in stead of actually analyzing their play, lets all just go the "they did it their way" "their method was proven to be right" route.... :confusedshrug: :no:

[tpols]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: You DONT think Jordan from 1991-1993, Shaq 200-2002, Bird 1984&1986, etc. are some of the most dominant and flawless runs ever??? WTF, had Kobe converted at some 50% ish he'd be right up there... name me any singificant flaws those guys had during their run. Were they NOT better?

Do you or do you not, have Isiah ranked in the top 10 for leading 2 teams to a title? IF NOT, WHY NOT? Is Paul Pierce ranked among Dirk all time? IF NOT, WHY NOT?


"Mention anyone else in history though and its as good as it gets" Smh just acknowledging some of the greatest runs this game has seen..

But NO, it would be sacrilegious for them to be put above Kobe's!!!
Lets just SIMPLIFY this whole thing, in stead of actually analyzing their play, lets all just go the "they did it their way" "their method was proven to be right" route.... :confusedshrug: :no:
To be fair.. 09 and 10 were not peak Kobe. 06-08 was.. and all those guys you listed not only were two the MDEs but they were at their absolute peaks.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Pau :applause:

Those talking about minutes, Pau actually did not have an advantage.

09 Finals 4th quarter
Kobe - 48 min
Pau - 49 min

Totals of all other stats included in the link as well
http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?GameSegment=&Period=4&PlayerPosition=&StarterBench=&PlayerExperience=&OpponentTeamID=1610612753&VsConference=East&VsDivision=&Outcome=&Location=&DateFrom=&DateTo=&SeasonSegment=&Month=0&LastNGames=0&PlusMinus=N&Rank=N&splits=Y&sortField=PTS&sortOrder=DES&SeasonType=Playoffs&filters=GP*G*3&PerMode=Totals&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&Season=2008-09&columnOrder=PLAYER_NAME%2CGP%2CMIN%2CW%2CL%2CW_PCT %2CFGM%2CFGA%2CFG_PCT%2CFG3M%2CFG3A%2CFG3_PCT%2CFT M%2CFTA%2CFT_PCT%2COREB%2CDREB%2CREB%2CAST%2CTOV%2 CSTL%2CBLK%2CPF%2CDD2%2CTD3%2CPTS%2CPLUS_MINUS

2010 Finals 4th quarter
Kobe - 75 min
Pau - 67 min

http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?GameSegment=&Period=4&PlayerPosition=&StarterBench=&PlayerExperience=&OpponentTeamID=1610612738&VsConference=East&VsDivision=&Outcome=&Location=&DateFrom=&DateTo=&SeasonSegment=&Month=0&LastNGames=0&PlusMinus=N&Rank=N&splits=Y&sortField=PTS&sortOrder=DES&SeasonType=Playoffs&filters=GP*G*3&PerMode=Totals&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&Season=2009-10&columnOrder=PLAYER_NAME%2CGP%2CMIN%2CW%2CL%2CW_PCT %2CFGM%2CFGA%2CFG_PCT%2CFG3M%2CFG3A%2CFG3_PCT%2CFT M%2CFTA%2CFT_PCT%2COREB%2CDREB%2CREB%2CAST%2CTOV%2 CSTL%2CBLK%2CPF%2CDD2%2CTD3%2CPTS%2CPLUS_MINUS

[KyrieTheFuture]

The same as people equating losing in the first round in the west to winning in the first round in the east. "can't get out of the first round blah blah blah"
They are not remotely the same. The east many times, has one or more .500 or worst teams in the playoffs. The west, not nearly as much.


But then again, context doesn't matter to you.
Really? Because I ask you a question I don't care about context. What a simplistic way to avoid defending yourself. I don't only care about LeBron's finals record, I also question why people care about MJ's 6-0 in the Finals. It shouldn't be considered impressive. I'm not gonna sit here and act like the East and the West are equally as competitive but I do think it's overblown because of how atrocious it's been for these last 2-3 years.

[The Iron Fist]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: You DONT think Jordan from 1991-1993, Shaq 200-2002, Bird 1984&1986, etc. are some of the most dominant and flawless runs ever??? WTF, had Kobe converted at some 50% ish he'd be right up there... name me any singificant flaws those guys had during their run. Were they NOT better?

Do you or do you not, have Isiah ranked in the top 10 for leading 2 teams to a title? IF NOT, WHY NOT? Is Paul Pierce ranked among Dirk all time? IF NOT, WHY NOT?


"Mention anyone else in history though and its as good as it gets" Smh just acknowledging some of the greatest runs this game has seen..

But NO, it would be sacrilegious for them to be put above Kobe's!!!
Lets just SIMPLIFY this whole thing, in stead of actually analyzing their play, lets all just go the "they did it their way" "their method was proven to be right" route.... :confusedshrug: :no:You just said that there is always room for doing better. But you're only applying that logic to one person. :facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

You just said that there is always room for doing better. But you're only applying that logic to one person. :facepalm


Nope, never said it. I said "ever heard of room for doing something better?" Regarding Kobe, because you acted like Kobe was flawless.

Even If, why do you attack the least relevant part of my post? These guys couldnt do much more, fact.

[The Iron Fist]

Nope, never said it. I said "ever heard of room for doing something better?" Regarding Kobe, because you acted like Kobe was flawless.

Even If, why do you attack the least relevant part of my post? These guys couldnt do much more, fact.
Kobe was b2b fmvp. Post his finals stats. And BTW, never actedlike kKobe was flawless. Just said his way worked for him.

[HOoopCityJones]

He didn't shoot a good percentage , so what he's done is not impressive.

Plus he's not averaging the same rebounds as Centers.

[ZenMaster]

If Pau Gasol is really the player some people make him out to be, help us out and Trade one of your young stars for him, he'll contribute right away to a contender. No?

But why?, he's more valuable than Kobe...Said no ever.

He WAS the player people made him out to be, I know you want to set it up now in black and white "why isn't Pau as good as you say?"

Because it's 2014 and he's on the tail end of his NBA career, can hardly keep up on defense anymore.

In 2010 and around those years he was flat out awesome, go back and watch the games if you need proof.

[HOoopCityJones]

He WAS the player people made him out to be, I know you want to set it up now in black and white "why isn't Pau as good as you say?"

Because it's 2014 and he's on the tail end of his NBA career, can hardly keep up on defense anymore.

In 2010 and around those years he was flat out awesome, go back and watch the games if you need proof.

Never said he was flat out trash, but better than Kobe ?

:biggums: come on bro idk why you're even quoting me.

[ZenMaster]

Never said he was flat out trash, but better than Kobe ?

:biggums: come on bro idk why you're even quoting me.

Overall in their careers no he's not better than Kobe.

2010 playoffs he was better than Kobe, more important to the team anyways, he has to because he was the best player of everybody through the entire playoffs that year. Again go back and watch, he was good in any aspect of the game and Lakers ran their offense around him.

[Jacks3]

Overall in their careers no he's not better than Kobe.

2010 playoffs he was better than Kobe, more important to the team anyways, he has to because he was the best player of everybody through the entire playoffs that year. Again go back and watch, he was good in any aspect of the game and Lakers ran their offense around him.
He wasn't better than Bryant or even close, and the Lakers certainly did not run their offense through him. :oldlol:

[ZenMaster]

He wasn't better than Bryant or even close, and the Lakers certainly did not run their offense through him. :oldlol:

He was IMO so at least it must have been close, and the Lakers most certainly ran the triangle mainly through him.

[MadSolar]

GTFOH. Its clear you hold Kobe to a different standard. Its not enough that he won 5 times, he, according to you, should have won 7 or more times, and shot a better %.

Mention anyone else in history though, and "its just about as good as it gets".

Just minutes after saying, "Dont you realize there was room for doing it BETTER?"

:facepalm

Now lets go on to Zeke. He played, "the right way", but he wasn't dominant enough to be on your list.

You just can't make this shit up.
The IRON FIST GOING HAM ON THESE BITcHES.:oldlol:

[navy]

Kobe is a chucker, Pau is a big. There is nothing new here.

[Jacks3]

He was IMO so at least it must have been close, and the Lakers most certainly ran the triangle mainly through him.
You have no idea what you're talking about. How was the offense ran though Pau when Kobe was scoring 10+ more PPG, commanding far more defensive attention, and doing a ton more playmaking/creating. Delusional. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

He wasn't better than Bryant or even close, and the Lakers certainly did not run their offense through him. :oldlol:

:oldlol: Delusional Kirby stan, Pau was equally as important as Kobe :bowdown: