Cool Graphics: Lebron vs MJ vs Kobe at age 29

[MichaelCorleone]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BcyLECqCUAAtGOL.jpg:large

[russwest0]

There isn't a single aspect of basketball that LeBron is better than Jordan at.

[Rose'sACL]

those MJ game numbers.truly the goat.

[MichaelCorleone]

I like how Lebron is color black, which represents darkness and cool looking. MJ is color red which represents anger and blood lust.

Kobe is color purple...we all know what purple means.:oldlol:

[Warfan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BcyLECqCUAAtGOL.jpg:large

Magic the GOAT at age 29, 5 rings 8 finals appearances appearances :bowdown: ::bowdown:

[GOATbe]

3 > 1 > 2*

:confusedshrug:

[gin17]

godly averages by jordan, wow. did so much in less than 600 games

[Rose'sACL]

There isn't a single aspect of basketball that LeBron is better than Jordan at.
he is clearly better at making people like you watch every game of his.

[retaxis]

They also all have very similar story lines as well.

MJ lost many times to detroit and boston before he created his 'super team' to finally get over the hump.

Kobe also lost many times to the Kings and Spurs before a combination of Kobe/Shaq/Rick Fox/Horry etc finally got over the hump too

Lebron was 'owning' his conference before the big 3 teamed up (KG, PP, Ray) and he then needed his own team to eventually win it all as well.

[MichaelCorleone]

They also all have very similar story lines as well.

MJ lost many times to detroit and boston before he created his 'super team' to finally get over the hump.

Kobe also lost many times to the Kings and Spurs before a combination of Kobe/Shaq/Rick Fox/Horry etc finally got over the hump too

Lebron was 'owning' his conference before the big 3 teamed up (KG, PP, Ray) and he then needed his own team to eventually win it all as well.
Very cool way of putting it.:cheers: :applause:

[kennethgriffin]

i'l take kobe and jordans skills/tallent over lebrons numbers/espn mvps any day of the week


btw the only number there that truly matters is 3

[Warfan]

They also all have very similar story lines as well.

MJ lost many times to detroit and boston before he created his 'super team' to finally get over the hump.

Kobe also lost many times to the Kings and Spurs before a combination of Kobe/Shaq/Rick Fox/Horry etc finally got over the hump too

Lebron was 'owning' his conference before the big 3 teamed up (KG, PP, Ray) and he then needed his own team to eventually win it all as well.

You mean Utah

[MichaelCorleone]

i'l take kobe and jordans skills/tallent over lebrons numbers/espn mvps any day of the week


btw the only number there that truly matters is 3
Sadly at that time Kobe had 0 FMVP.:(

[Jameerthefear]

Kobe with the 0 MVPS :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Rose'sACL]

i'l take kobe and jordans skills/tallent over lebrons numbers/espn mvps any day of the week


btw the only number there that truly matters is 3
but why is lebron your favorite player then?

[gin17]

They also all have very similar story lines as well.

MJ lost many times to detroit and boston before he created his 'super team' to finally get over the hump.

Kobe also lost many times to the Kings and Spurs before a combination of Kobe/Shaq/Rick Fox/Horry etc finally got over the hump too

Lebron was 'owning' his conference before the big 3 teamed up (KG, PP, Ray) and he then needed his own team to eventually win it all as well.
similar except for the fact that lebron left his old team while jordan stayed put despite losing in his earlier years

[MichaelCorleone]

It's a mistake to not include FMVPs in that graphics though...

Lebron had 2, Jordan 1, and Kobe 0 at that time.

[kennethgriffin]

They also all have very similar story lines as well.

MJ lost many times to detroit and boston before he created his 'super team' to finally get over the hump.

Kobe also lost many times to the Kings and Spurs before a combination of Kobe/Shaq/Rick Fox/Horry etc finally got over the hump too

Lebron was 'owning' his conference before the big 3 teamed up (KG, PP, Ray) and he then needed his own team to eventually win it all as well.

:biggums:







they lost once to the spurs before winning 3 straight titles. and kobes owned the spurs all throughout his career

and kings? wtf lol the lakers ever lost to the kings in the playoffs

the lakers had trouble with utah before winning...

[Rose'sACL]

similar except for the fact that lebron left his old team while jordan stayed put despite losing in his earlier years
lol.jordan had pippen on his team.

[Warfan]

Kobe with the 0 MVPS :roll: :roll: :roll:

Jordan or LeBron wouldn't have won an mvp with prime shaq if they were the same age as kobe :confusedshrug: well maybe if shaq didn't leave and they had a good team in their primes

[kennethgriffin]

It's a mistake to not include FMVPs in that graphics though...

Lebron had 2, Jordan 1, and Kobe 0 at that time.


its a mistake to assume lebrons lockout ring and ray allen saved legacy ring with or without fmvp are on the same level as 2 out of kobes 3 titles with shaq




2001 and 2002 kobe titles >>>>>>>>>>> lebrons crap rings during crap seasons/eras/ring chasing/getting saved

[MichaelCorleone]

Jordan or LeBron wouldn't have won an mvp with prime shaq if they were the same age as kobe :confusedshrug: well maybe if shaq didn't leave and they had a good team in their primes
Ok let's forget about MVP.

Let's talk about FMVP. Why with 3 titles, does Kobe have ZERO fmvp?

[Warfan]

Ok let's forget about MVP.

Let's talk about FMVP. Why with 3 titles, does Kobe have ZERO fmvp?

Because he played with prime shaq the MDE, he still contributed greatly to all 3 rings, more so the last 2

[GOATbe]

its a mistake to assume lebrons lockout ring and ray allen saved legacy ring with or without fmvp are on the same level as 2 out of kobes 3 titles with shaq




2001 and 2002 kobe titles >>>>>>>>>>> lebrons crap rings during crap seasons/eras/ring chasing/getting saved
this:applause:

[MichaelCorleone]

Because he played with prime shaq the MDE
Oh yeah I totally forgot about the TRUE LEADER and MAIN NO.1 OPTION on that LA team Shaq.

Well at least we have Lebron and MJ winning titles as alphas.:cheers:

[HOoopCityJones]

People need to get over it.

You REALLY think if Jordan or Lebron played with prime Shaq would get FMVP over him? Never.

[Warfan]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about the TRUE LEADER and MAIN NO.1 OPTION on that LA team Shaq.

Well at least we have Lebron and MJ winning titles as alphas.:cheers:

so u think LeBron or mj would have won an fmvp with prime shaq at the same age kobe was

[MichaelCorleone]

so u think LeBron or mj would have won an fmvp with prime shaq at the same age kobe was
MJ would win FMVP playing with Shaq and it's not even a debate, MJ is a born alpha.

Lebron would win 2 FMVP, with Shaq winning 1 out of 3 rings. Only Kobe will FAIL to win a FMVP while/winning playing with Shaq.

[retaxis]

You mean Utah
You are right Utah. Kings were the more 'talented' team but Utah put them away the first couple of seasons together.

[Angel Face]

Look at MJ's averages. GOAT! :bowdown:

Kobe's 3 titles at young age :applause:

Lebron's 4 mvp and 2* titles :ohwell:

[russwest0]

its a mistake to assume lebrons lockout ring and ray allen saved legacy ring with or without fmvp are on the same level as 2 out of kobes 3 titles with shaq




2001 and 2002 kobe titles >>>>>>>>>>> lebrons crap rings during crap seasons/eras/ring chasing/getting saved

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Warfan]

You are right Utah. Kings were the more 'talented' team but Utah put them away the first couple of seasons together.

well I thought the kings should of beat the lakers in 02 but u know what happened


MJ would win FMVP playing with Shaq and it's not even a debate, MJ is a born alpha.

Lebron would win 2 FMVP, with Shaq winning 1 out of 3 rings. Only Kobe will FAIL to win a FMVP while/winning playing with Shaq.

so a 21-23 year old mj and LeBron would win a fmvp over shaq who was putting up 35-15 and completely shitting on the other team. ok :rolleyes:

[MichaelCorleone]

so a 21-23 year old mj and LeBron would win a fmvp over shaq who was putting up 35-15 and completely shitting on the other team. ok :rolleyes:
My point is, Lebron and MJ would actually HAVE A CASE over Shaq as FMVPs, actually pose a serious challenge.

Kobe didn't even have a chance at all.:facepalm

[HOoopCityJones]

so a 21-23 year old mj and LeBron would win a fmvp over shaq who was putting up 35-15 and completely shitting on the other team. ok :rolleyes:

Prime Lakers Shaq had one of the greatest peaks of all time , next to MJ.

This dude is delusional if he thinks a 20 something Lebron is winning Final MvP over Shaq :roll:

[retaxis]

similar except for the fact that lebron left his old team while jordan stayed put despite losing in his earlier years
Yeah but thats life. If you are in a good company who is growing and you will get a 'promotion' you will stay.

If you are in a bad company and the company is receding and firing people left and right while hiring idiots, you will leave.

Its not that hard to understand just ask Shaq on why he left Orlando.

[T_L_P]

At 29: Jordan > Bran > Colby

[MichaelCorleone]

Prime Lakers Shaq had one of the greatest peaks of all time , next to MJ.

This dude is delusional if he thinks a 20 something Lebron is winning Final MvP over Shaq :roll:
Rookie Lebron had an NBA debut match of 25/9/6 on 12-20 shooting. Yes Lebron James was THAT GOOD right from the start, he wasn't Kobe, who had to sit on the bench because he wasn't good enough.

Lebron would have a case over Shaq for FMVP. Michael Jordan would be a zero debate, clear case over Shaq.

[Warfan]

My point is, Lebron and MJ would actually HAVE A CASE over Shaq as FMVPs, actually pose a serious challenge.

Kobe didn't even have a chance at all.:facepalm

What case they weren't nearly as good as prime shaq at that age. Why are u trying to diminish kobes rings

[HOoopCityJones]

At 29: Jordan > Bran > Colby>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tim Duncan

If we're telling truths here.

[MichaelCorleone]

Why are u trying to diminish kobes rings
I don't need to. It's ALREADY diminished and tainted because Kobe FAILED to win FMVP, not even one, for all 3 of those rings.

[kennethgriffin]

What case they weren't nearly as good as prime shaq at that age. Why are u trying to diminish kobes rings


in lebran stans minds.. golf scores are how they count rings

-3 > -2 > -1 > 0 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5


notice how lebran babies are less annoying these days... before they tried way harder and actually made people believe leheadband was the best ever... its slowed down since hes started winning... hate to see if bran wins 3 more titles... then therel be none of them left on this forum.. theyel give up on life

[T_L_P]

If we're telling truths here.

Duncan at 29: 3 rings, 3 Finals MVPs
Kobe at 29: 3 rings, 0 Finals MVPs

Sure he was :oldlol:

[jzek]

MJ's steals and blocks numbers = :eek:

More reason why he's the GOAT

[MichaelCorleone]

Duncan at 29: 3 rings, 3 Finals MVPs
Kobe at 29: 3 rings, 0 Finals MVPs

Sure he was :oldlol:
Reality hurts for Kobe stans.:oldlol:

[HOoopCityJones]

Duncan at 29: 3 rings, 3 Finals MVPs
Kobe at 29: 3 rings, 0 Finals MVPs

Sure he was :oldlol:
Come on son , you know my boy was robbed.

:confusedshrug: Either way, Kobe Doesn't blow clutch lay ups vs SHANE BATTIER ina Final either.

He torch guys like that. :pimp:

[jzek]

Why are u trying to diminish kobes rings

Because Shaq GIFTED Kobe those three rings! If LeBron, Wade, TMac, Iverson, insert_player_here played with Shaq during those years, they too would have gotten 3 rings from riding Shaq's coattails... hence, the term GIFT.

How many FMVPs did Kobe win during those 3 title runs?

[MichaelCorleone]

Because Shaq GIFTED Kobe those three rings! If Wade, TMac, Iverson, insert_player_here played with Shaq during those years, they too would have gotten 3 rings from riding Shaq's coattails... hence, the term GIFT.
This.

Those Kobe's rings* were ALREADY diminished and tainted. He was a SIDEKICK, a beta.

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan at 29: 3 rings, 3 Finals MVPs
Kobe at 29: 3 rings, 0 Finals MVPs

Sure he was :oldlol:


to be fair.. kobe didnt have his own team built around him with decent players till like age 29


kobes ranked higher all time than duncan by nearly every person on the planet and he really only had like 4 years to accumulate personal accolades

pretty pathetic considering duncan had his chances on a great franchise focussed on him as the centerpiece with great team mates since day 1.. and still going

really makes ya think

:lol

[T_L_P]

Come on son , you know my boy was robbed.

:confusedshrug: Either way, Kobe Doesn't blow clutch lay ups vs SHANE BATTIER ina Final either.

He torch guys like that. :pimp:

He was not robbed...I'm not gonna act like he was carried or anything, but Shaq deserved all of those FMVPs :confusedshrug:

Sure, Kobe doesn't blow clutch layups...he does this instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWgfx-bXsg4

[MichaelCorleone]

to be fair.. kobe didnt have his own team built around him with decent players till like age 29


kobes ranked higher all time than duncan by nearly every person on the planet and he really only had like 4 years to accumulate personal accolades

pretty pathetic considering duncan had his chances on a great franchise focussed on him as the centerpiece with great team mates since day 1.. and still going

really makes ya think

:lol
Print this picture, frame it and hang it on your basement wall. You need to be reminded that Kobe was a SIDEKICK and a beta for his first 3 rings*

http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/4920970629_7fb8758dbc-jpg.jpe

[gin17]

Because Shaq GIFTED Kobe those three rings! If LeBron, Wade, TMac, Iverson, insert_player_here played with Shaq during those years, they too would have gotten 3 rings from riding Shaq's coattails... hence, the term GIFT.
if dirk, duncan, shaq, jordan, kg played in miami for the past few years they would've three-peated already while playing with bosh and wade. hence the term gift/ring-chasing/beingsavedbyrayallen

[T_L_P]

to be fair.. kobe didnt have his own team built around him with decent players till like age 29


kobes ranked higher all time than duncan by nearly every person on the planet and he really only had like 4 years to accumulate personal accolades

pretty pathetic considering duncan had his chances on a great franchise focussed on him as the centerpiece with great team mates since day 1.. and still going

really makes ya think

:lol

So you're using what the masses think to rank players on all-time lists?

You fail.

Kobe had the GOAT peak for his first three and a better player (Gasol) than Duncan had for his last two.

Again, the '99 and '03...and even the '05 Spurs are worse than any of Kobe's championship teams.

I guess Duncan's impact is just greater than Kobe's was :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

Print this picture, frame it and hang it on your basement wall. You need to be reminded that Kobe was a SIDEKICK and a beta for his first 3 rings*

http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/4920970629_7fb8758dbc-jpg.jpe

dude i literally just posted that reply you just quoted... how on earth did you manage to quote me and actually read anything in under 2 seconds?

you're telling me you refreshed the page... saw my comment... clicked reply... posted a link and a paragraph in under 2 freaking seconds?

:applause: goat virgin/troll/no life...

[Magic 32]

I wonder how eager Lebron fans will be to make these kind of graphs in 6 years. :roll:

[Andrei89]

MJ is the GOAT.

I agree though that lebron > Kirby

Lebron , however, does not > Shaq though

[HOoopCityJones]

He was not robbed...I'm not gonna act like he was carried or anything, but Shaq deserved all of those FMVPs :confusedshrug:

Sure, Kobe doesn't blow clutch layups...he does this instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWgfx-bXsg4

Come on now son, don't change the goal when it suits your argument , you threw season MVPs in the mix and Kobe has been robbed for YEARS when it comes to those awards.

The Finals MVP will always go to prime Shaq no matter who you put next to him.



Rookie Kobe :bowdown:

Look how far you've come my boy.

[MichaelCorleone]

dude i literally just posted that reply you just quoted... how on earth did you manage to quote me and actually read anything in under 2 seconds?

you're telling me you refreshed the page... saw my comment... clicked reply... posted a link and a paragraph in under 2 freaking seconds?

:applause: goat virgin/troll/no life...
No argument as to why Kobe was carried (literally) by Shaq, resorts to insult. What is new Kobetards?:oldlol: :confusedshrug:

[Warfan]

Because Shaq GIFTED Kobe those three rings! If LeBron, Wade, TMac, Iverson, insert_player_here played with Shaq during those years, they too would have gotten 3 rings from riding Shaq's coattails... hence, the term GIFT.

Where was Kobe's FMVP during those 3 title runs?

I don't think kobes first ring was very impressive, but in 01 he put up 30/7/6 and was a top 5 player in the league and an elite defender, same with 02 and he put up 27/6/5. They both needed each other and kobe gave great help to shaq, my point is that mj or LeBron wouldn't win a fmvp over shaq anyway, its disrespectful to just discard those rings.

[T_L_P]

Come on now son, don't change the goal when it suits your argument , you threw season MVPs on the mix and Kobe has been robbed for YEARS when it comes to those awards.

The Finals MVP will always go to prime Shaq no matter who you put next to him.



Rookie Kobe :bowdown:

Look how far you've come my boy.

I only threw Finals MVPs in the mix, 'cause they're all that matters in reality.

37-year-old Duncan :bowdown:

[Jameerthefear]

DAMN. Kobe fans getting slaughtered left and right :roll:

[MichaelCorleone]

I don't think kobes first ring was very impressive, but in 01 he put up 30/7/6 and was a top 5 player in the league and an elite defender, same with 02 and he put up 27/6/5. They both needed each other and kobe gave great help to shaq, my point is that mj or LeBron wouldn't win a fmvp over shaq anyway, its disrespectful to just discard those rings.
Shaq would have won those 3 rings if you replace Kobe with Kevin Martin or Kyle Korver, or anyone that can shoot 3s while Shaq was doubled/tripled.

[LAZERUSS]

No argument as to why Kobe was carried (literally) by Shaq, resorts to insult. What is new Kobetards?:oldlol: :confusedshrug:

You do realize that in the playoff battles involving the Spurs and Lakers in the 00's, that the best player on the floor in the vast majority of those games,...was Kobe, right?

[nashwade]

If number of rings is all that matters....

NORRIS COLE
AGE: 25
RINGS: 2

NC > LB > MJ > KB

[MichaelCorleone]

You do realize that in the playoff battles involving the Spurs and Lakers in the 00's, that the best player on the floor in the vast majority of those games,...was Kobe, right?
Shaq won 3 FMVPs out of those 3 rings, he was THE MAN, he was THE BEST.

Kobe was a sidekick.

[kennethgriffin]

So you're using what the masses think to rank players on all-time lists?

You fail.

Kobe had the GOAT peak for his first three and a better player (Gasol) than Duncan had for his last two.

Again, the '99 and '03...and even the '05 Spurs are worse than any of Kobe's championship teams.

I guess Duncan's impact is just greatest than Kobe's was :confusedshrug:


no i use basic methods to rank players. just saying if 4.599900billion out of 4.599999billion people think kobe is better than duncan.. then its probly true... i'd say theres a 99.999998% chance


my personal method is rings by mvp winners ( with era adjustments ) + stats/records/1st teams with personal playoff matchups factored in


and kobe beats duncan in all my criteria

the main thing is.. their career achievements are quite similar. but duncan was never as dominant an individual player. hes more of a consistant 19-20ppg guy.. which any second rate crap guy can average and get snubbed for an allstar reserve


hes lucky he played such great defense... if duncan didnt have that he'd be chris webber or some jacksh*t gasol

but my real final nail in the coffin is the fact that duncan let tony freaking parker take over his team.. hes been the clear leader since like 2007 or 2008.. he stole a finals mvp too


kobe would never.... EVER let tony parker take his team away... common lol

[Warfan]

You do realize that in the playoff battles involving the Spurs and Lakers in the 00's, that the best player on the floor in the vast majority of those games,...was Kobe, right?

:applause:


Shaq would have won those 3 rings if you replace Kobe with Kevin Martin or Kyle Korver, or anyone that can shoot 3s while Shaq was doubled/tripled.

:roll: alright im done with u bruh

[Meticode]

There isn't a single aspect of basketball that LeBron is better than Jordan at.
Passing.

[MichaelCorleone]

Passing.
rebounding

court vision

basketball IQ

athleticism

Lebron is better than MJ at all of the above too.

[andgar923]

rebounding

court vision

basketball IQ

athleticism

Lebron is better than MJ at all of the above too.
http://supernaturalsnark.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/michael-jordan-laughing.gif%3Fw%3D620

[kennethgriffin]

Shaq won 3 FMVPs out of those 3 rings, he was THE MAN, he was THE BEST.

Kobe was a sidekick.


only thing is.. kobes been twice as successful without shaq as shaqs been without kobe

shaq was able to do his thing till the 4th.. then kobe had to take over.. and when phil subbed shaq out for hackashaq. guess who had to run the show?


they both averaged the same ppg.. kobe was the main playmaker and assist guy. he basically ran point guard.


so the best scorer, defender, passer, ball handler, clutch player on the lakers was kobe...

both were tied in scoring for 2out of 3 titles

both averaged 29-30 in 2001 and both averaged 27-28 in 2002


shaqs only advantage was rebounding and like 0.5 more ppg... and it won him the fmvps




sorry...

[T_L_P]

no i use basic methods to rank players. just saying if 4.599900billion out of 4.599999billion people think kobe is better than duncan.. then its probly true... i'd say theres a 99.999998% chance


my personal method is rings by mvp winners ( with era adjustments ) + stats/records/1st teams with personal playoff matchups factored in


and kobe beats duncan in all my criteria

the main thing is.. their career achievements are quite similar. but duncan was never as dominant an individual player. hes more of a consistant 19-20ppg guy.. which any second rate crap guy can average and get snubbed for an allstar reserve


hes lucky he played such great defense... if duncan didnt have that he'd be chris webber or some jacksh*t gasol

but my real final nail in the coffin is the fact that duncan let tony freaking parker take over his team.. hes been the clear leader since like 2007 or 2008.. he stole a finals mvp too


kobe would never.... EVER let tony parker take his team away... common lol

And many of the most respected opinions would pick Duncan. Here's an example:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

Your criteria and your opinions are bogus. Duncan was never dominant?

He had two more dominant Playoff runs ('99 and '03) than Kobe ever had.

Three of his four championship teams were worse than any of Kobe's.

Yeah, Duncan gave the reigns to Parker, but that's because the game has changed and become more guard-driven. That point is utterly pathetic...Kobe effectively ruined his teams because he needed to be the main guy, and yet you probably think nothing of that, do you?

[MichaelCorleone]

*bunch of bs*
Sorry but give Shaq PRIME Gasol, Odom and Metta "Clutch" World Peace and Shaq would 3-peat again.

I know Shaq will NEVER go 6 for 24 in a game 7 and needing Artest to bail him out.

[kennethgriffin]

And many of the most respected opinions would pick Duncan. Here's an example:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

Your criteria and your opinions are bogus. Duncan was never dominant?

He had two more dominant Playoff runs ('99 and '03) than Kobe ever had.

Three of his four championship teams were worse than any of Kobe's.

Yeah, Duncan gave the reigns to Parker, but that's because the game has changed and become more guard-driven. That point is utterly pathetic...Kobe effectively ruined his teams because he needed to be the main guy.

lol a basketball magazine article ranking voted on by a few nerds is your basis?


ok..

kobe won dime magazine player of the decade... are those writers less qualified?


honestly .. a guy who writes for a paper/message board/website or magazine are all of equal intelligence when it comes to the game of basketball.. and they all have their own personal biased opinions. some outweigh others based on random chance.


i'l never take a percentage vote unless its of people in the many thousands.. when its 10-20 people then theres a chance they could vote lebron ahead of jordan. who knows. theres a few espn guys who have lebron already as goat

[HOoopCityJones]

And many of the most respected opinions would pick Duncan. Here's an example:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

Your criteria and your opinions are bogus. Duncan was never dominant?

He had two more dominant Playoff runs ('99 and '03) than Kobe ever had.

Three of his four championship teams were worse than any of Kobe's.

Yeah, Duncan gave the reigns to Parker, but that's because the game has changed and become more guard-driven. That point is utterly pathetic...Kobe effectively ruined his teams because he needed to be the main guy, and yet you probably think nothing of that, do you?

Duncan has never repeated and it will always hurt him in my eyes.

5> 4

Kobe > Duncan

Only Spurs fans and Kobe discredit fanatics like Bill Simmons and Henry Abbot feel like you. Ask any other Legend or Coach besides Pop who they'd take.

[russwest0]

Passing.

There is more to playmaking than just assists. But even using the weak assists argument, call me when LeBron ever averages 11 assists per game in a finals series.

[T_L_P]

Duncan has never repeated and it will always hurt him in my eyes.

5> 4

Kobe > Duncan

Only Spurs fans and Kobe discredit fanatics like Bill Simmons and Henry Abbot feel like you. Ask any other Legend or Coach besides Pop who they'd take.

And Kobe has only won in bursts when his teams were stacked.

4 as the man > 2 as the man

Ha, the thought that only Pop would take Duncan over Kobe is absurd. I remember when all the guys at TNT ("legends" like McHale and Barkley) laughed at Kobe being voted Player of the Decade ahead of Shaq and Duncan.

[T_L_P]

lol a basketball magazine article ranking voted on by a few nerds is your basis?


ok..

kobe won dime magazine player of the decade... are those writers less qualified?


honestly .. a guy who writes for a paper/message board/website or magazine are all of equal intelligence when it comes to the game of basketball.. and they all have their own personal biased opinions. some outweigh others based on random chance.


i'l never take a percentage vote unless its of people in the many thousands.. when its 10-20 people then theres a chance they could vote lebron ahead of jordan. who knows. theres a few espn guys who have lebron already as goat

And your basis is...what the fans think?

If Duncan was drafted to the Knicks and Kobe was drafted to Milwaukee I'm sure most would agree Duncan > Kobe

[HOoopCityJones]

And Kobe has only won in bursts when his teams were stacked.

4 as the man > 2 as the man

Ha, the thought that only Pop would take Duncan over Kobe is absurd.

ISH, HERE IS TLP'S DEFINITION OF STACKED, REMEMBER THIS DAY

http://www.latimes.com/includes/projects/img/lakers/season_photos/season_2009_2010.jpg


DAMN , THEM DAYS WHEN WE HAD DJ MBENGA AND JOSH POWELL COMING OFF OF THE BENCH, DEFINITION OF STACKED...


:facepalm

[MichaelCorleone]

ISH, HERE IS TLP'S DEFINITION OF STACKED, REMEMBER THIS DAY
DAMN , THEM DAYS WHEN WE HAD DJ MBENGA AND JOSH POWELL COMING OFF OF THE BENCH, DEFINITION OF STACKED...


:facepalm
Prime Gasol + Prime Artest + 6MOTY Odom = Stacked.

[Magic 32]

Prime Artest

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[T_L_P]

ISH, HERE IS TLP'S DEFINITION OF STACKED, REMEMBER THIS DAY

http://www.latimes.com/includes/projects/img/lakers/season_photos/season_2009_2010.jpg



DAMN , THEM DAYS WHEN WE HAD DJ MBENGA AND JOSH POWELL COMING OFF OF THE BENCH, DEFINITION OF STACKED...


:facepalm

You really don't understand the concept of a team being stacked.

I guess none of Jordan's Bulls teams were stacked considering they had Jo Jo White and John Paxson coming off the bench either :facepalm

Then again, your definition of stacked is a rookie Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, a hot-headed Stephen Jackson, David Robinson's carcass, and past-their-being-past-their-prime Kevin Willis/Steve Kerr/Steve Smith.

[HOoopCityJones]

Prime Gasol + Prime Artest + 6MOTY Odom = Stacked.

Prime Artest jumped into the stans.

Odom wasn't 6th man til we got swept the year after.

Just stop posting , Mr. "Lebron recruited Wade to the Heat".



You really don't understand the concept of a team being stacked.

I guess none of Jordan's Bulls teams were stacked considering they had Jo Jo White and John Paxson coming off the bench either :facepalm

There you go again, moving the goal post when it suits your argument.

[T_L_P]

Prime Artest jumped into the stans.

Odom wasn't 6th man til we got swept the year after.

Just stop posting , Mr. "Lebron recruited Wade to the Heat".




There you go again, moving the goal post when it suits your argument.

You literally said LA wasn't stacked because they had no-names coming off the bench...and that can be said for pretty much any team. :facepalm

And you're one to talk about moving the goal post...you magically made Robert Horry a player on the '03 Spurs team...****ing idiot

[MichaelCorleone]

Prime Artest jumped into the stans.

Odom wasn't 6th man til we got swept the year after.

Just stop posting , Mr. "Lebron recruited Wade to the Heat".
Artest in 2010 was the SAVIOR of the lakers, he bailed out Mr "6 for 24" to one more ring.

[HOoopCityJones]

You literally said LA wasn't stacked because they had no-names coming off the bench...and that can be said for pretty much any team. :facepalm

Stacked is the Heat or Clippers.

Stacked is GSW, if their core guys were a few years older.

Stacked is Spurs 2003.

Kobe&Gasol is not stacked.

Odom wasn't consistent, and Bynum was a solid 8 and 6 guy when healthy, which is flat out terrible for his position.

[retaxis]

I don't know why trolls end up discussing the same things day after day after day hours on end..Maybe thats why they never grow up because they are always stuck talking and arguing about the same crap that no one really cares about.

[T_L_P]

Stacked is the Heat or Clippers.

Stacked is GSW, if their core guys were a few years older.

Stacked is Spurs 2003.

Kobe&Gasol is not stacked.

Odom wasn't consistent, and Bynum was a solid 8 and 6 guy when healthy, which is flat out terrible for his position.

I ask for about the fiftieth time:

HOW WERE THE 2003 SPURS STACKED?

Literally, every time I've asked you've either avoided the question or simply said..."Well, they had Tony Parker, Manu and Robinson. Those are Hall of Famers."

You talk all this shit about Odom being inconsistent...Parker was getting benched because he was so inconsistent and he shot 40% from the field.

[MichaelCorleone]

Kobe&Gasol is not stacked.

Odom wasn't consistent, and Bynum was a solid 8 and 6 guy when healthy, which is flat out terrible for his position.
http://replygif.net/i/1126.gif

[HOoopCityJones]

I ask for about the fiftieth time:

HOW WERE THE 2003 SPURS STACKED?

Literally, every time I've asked you've either avoided the question or simply said..."Well, they had Tony Parker, Manu and Robinson. Those are Hall of Famers."

You talk all this shit about Odom being inconsistent...Parker wasn't getting benched because he was so inconsistent and he shot 40% from the field.

You had four players averaging double digits bro.


We were lucky if got that consistently from Odom for a month.

Stop man, those Teams were way more talented than you're letting on. But you don't wanna drop this damn, "Duncan carried one of the least equipped Teams of all time to a Finals" bullish.

This is not even me counting the vets like Kerr, Robinson, Claxton etc.

[MichaelCorleone]

You had four players averaging double digits bro.


We were lucky if got that consistently from Odom for a month.

Stop man, those Teams were way more talented than you're letting on. But you don't wanna drop this damn, "Duncan carried one of the least equipped Teams of all time to a Finals" bullish.
Duncan > Kobe

and look who caught feelings.

[SwayDizzle]

People forget that Kobe paved the way for young guns to enter the league straight out of high school. Kobe has always been Bron's idol. Kobe remains Bron's master.

[MrC1991]

lmfao someone said prime artest tho...

[andgar923]

:roll: :roll:
@ the Lakers not being stacked

They had possibly the best front court (top 2 minimum), and not only that they were multi skilled front court players that fit the triangle offense perfectly. During their runs they usually had the best bench in basketball and YES that includes Walton coming off the bench.

Also, the triangle offense has proved that it doesn't need a traditional PG so that excuse is out the window.

The fact that Odom, Gasol, Bynum were even in the same team is invaluable. Even if they didn't play up to their potential having them on the court alone will win vs 85% of the league since they lack size to compete. The other percent doesn't have bigs that are good enough to compete. So even if Bynum didn't average big numbers, his presence on the court alone was more valuable then what other teams had available. Even when Bynum didn't play and Odom or Gasol had bad games, they still created mismatch problems that created different sorts of issues for teams on both ends.

Are people gonna sit here and argue that having Mo Williams is the same as having a 6'10 point guard in Odom?

F*ck the numbers, the IMPACT and presence is bigger than that.

Odom missing>>> Mo missing

Laker fans..... *ahem* KOBE fans forget how good those teams were and how they usually bailed out Kobrick in key moments and crucial games. Perhaps moreso than other of his peers.

[MichaelCorleone]

People forget that Kobe paved the way for young guns to enter the league straight out of high school. Kobe has always been Bron's idol. Kobe remains Bron's master.
Kobe paved the way for players like Jason Terry and Dwyane Wade to learn and be a beta and let the alpha (Dirk/Lebron) lead the team to the promised land like how Shaq did during the 3-peat.

[andgar923]

People forget that Kobe paved the way for young guns to enter the league straight out of high school. Kobe has always been Bron's idol. Kobe remains Bron's master.
:facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

And your basis is...what the fans think?

If Duncan was drafted to the Knicks and Kobe was drafted to Milwaukee I'm sure most would agree Duncan > Kobe



i never said my basis was what anyone else thinks

i told you my formula before..

but it helps to have majority opinion among fans/coaches/players


and kobe has that by a landslide

even during duncans prime his own coach said kobe was the best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI


but seriously dude. you cant honestly think a guy with similar accolades and far less stats/respect is ahead of kobe..

especially when kobes had a magnifying glass on his entire career. with a ton more pressure on him by the media and fans to succeed. that along with carrying the league as its poster boy

duncan was always flying under the radar. he was never interesting or popular among most nba fans.

duncans boring.. obviously i respect the guy and i like solid fundamentals. but it wasnt really something people bought into


i give way more respect to guys who could take the ultimate pressure and succeeded.

but if you really wanna get down to it


5 championships > 4 championships ( kobe )
7 finals > 5 finals ( kobe )
1 mvp < 2 mvps ( duncan )
2 fmvps < 3 fmvps ( duncan )
4 ASG mvps > 1 ASG mvp ( kobe )
2 olympic gold medals > 1 bronce ( kobe )
16 allstar games > 14 allstar games ( kobe )
11 first team all nba's > 10 first team all nba's ( kobe )
9 first team all defense's > 8 first team all defense's ( kobe )
2 scoring titles > 0 scoring titles ( kobe )
25ppg career > 20ppg career ( kobe )
81 point career high > 53 point career high ( kobe )
35ppg career high > 25ppg career high ( kobe )



4-2 head to head in the playoffs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQxgHgRh95Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP1gQWrEGdE


kobe has more 60 point games than duncan has 50 point games

kobe has more 50 point games than duncan has 40 point games

kobe has more 40 point games than duncan has 30 point games



its actually disturbing how much more dominant on offense kobe is..



offense

kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> duncan



defense

duncan > kobe by a hair



then factor in kobe has 40+ game winning shots.. duncan might have what? 5...


its not even close.. but add this

Sporting News NBA Athlete of the Decade (2000s)[94]
TNT NBA Player of the Decade (2000s)[95]
Sports Illustrated Top 20 Male Athlete of the Decade (2000s) #7 (the only NBA player in the top 10)[97]
Ranked #1 in Dime Magazine's 2012 list of the top 10 greatest players since the year 2000 (published in the September 2012 issue)[99]



want me to go on?

[HOoopCityJones]

Duncan > Kobe

and look who caught feelings.

Oh look it's the village joke. :lol

[MrC1991]

Kobe paved the way for dudes to come outta highschool? Wasn't Moses Malone the first player to come straight out of HS?

[T_L_P]

You had four players averaging double digits bro.


We were lucky if got that consistently from Odom for a month.

Stop man, those Teams were way more talented than you're letting on. But you don't wanna drop this damn, "Duncan carried one of the least equipped Teams of all time to a Finals" bullish.

This is not even me counting the vets like Kerr, Robinson, Claxton etc.

We had 3 players (Duncan, Parker, Jackson). The Lakers had 4 (Kobe, Pau, Metta, Fisher). :facepalm

You literally didn't know who the '03 Spurs were (you though Robert Horry was a part of that squad), so how the **** would know how much talent it had? :facepalm

[Mr Exlax]

Wow all 3 players were really really good at age 29.

[Prometheus]

The temperature in North Dakota right now, measured in degrees Farenheit > the combined IQ of everyone arguing in this thread


Oh and a side note, Kobe had only 2 rings at age 29. 2002 does not count (Tim Donaghy)

[MichaelCorleone]

The temperature in North Dakota right now, measured in degrees Farenheit > the combined IQ of everyone arguing in this thread


Oh and a side note, Kobe had only 2 rings* at age 29. 2002 does not count (Tim Donaghy)
Fixed.

[HOoopCityJones]

i never said my basis was what anyone else thinks

i told you my formula before..

but it helps to have majority opinion among fans/coaches/players


and kobe has that by a landslide

even during duncans prime his own coach said kobe was the best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI


but seriously dude. you cant honestly think a guy with similar accolades and far less stats/respect is ahead of kobe..

especially when kobes had a magnifying glass on his entire career. with a ton more pressure on him by the media and fans to succeed. that along with carrying the league as its poster boy

duncan was always flying under the radar. he was never interesting or popular among most nba fans.

duncans boring.. obviously i respect the guy and i like solid fundamentals. but it wasnt really something people bought into


i give way more respect to guys who could take the ultimate pressure and succeeded.

but if you really wanna get down to it


5 championships > 4 championships ( kobe )
7 finals > 5 finals ( kobe )
1 mvp < 2 mvps ( duncan )
2 fmvps < 3 fmvps ( duncan )
4 ASG mvps > 1 ASG mvp ( kobe )
2 olympic gold medals > 1 bronce ( kobe )
16 allstar games > 14 allstar games ( kobe )
11 first team all nba's > 10 first team all nba's ( kobe )
9 first team all defense's > 8 first team all defense's ( kobe )
2 scoring titles > 0 scoring titles ( kobe )
25ppg career > 20ppg career ( kobe )
81 point career high > 53 point career high ( kobe )
35ppg career high > 25ppg career high ( kobe )



4-2 head to head in the playoffs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQxgHgRh95Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP1gQWrEGdE


kobe has more 60 point games than duncan has 50 point games

kobe has more 50 point games than duncan has 40 point games

kobe has more 40 point games than duncan has 30 point games



its actually disturbing how much more dominant on offense kobe is..



offense

kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> duncan



defense

duncan > kobe by a hair



then factor in kobe has 40+ game winning shots.. duncan might have what? 5...


its not even close.. but add this

Sporting News NBA Athlete of the Decade (2000s)[94]
TNT NBA Player of the Decade (2000s)[95]
Sports Illustrated Top 20 Male Athlete of the Decade (2000s) #7 (the only NBA player in the top 10)[97]
Ranked #1 in Dime Magazine's 2012 list of the top 10 greatest players since the year 2000 (published in the September 2012 issue)[99]



want me to go on?

This settles it TLP :bowdown:

Don't even say Duncan's name around me again.

[MichaelCorleone]

Kobe stans just don't know when to stop do they?:facepalm

Kobe STRUGGLES to stay in the top 10 ranking while Duncan is sitting comfortably at no.5 right now.

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Ducan
6. Lebron
7. Shaq
8. Hakeem
9. Wilt
10. Kareem

[T_L_P]

i never said my basis was what anyone else thinks

i told you my formula before..

but it helps to have majority opinion among fans/coaches/players


and kobe has that by a landslide

even during duncans prime his own coach said kobe was the best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI


but seriously dude. you cant honestly think a guy with similar accolades and far less stats/respect is ahead of kobe..

especially when kobes had a magnifying glass on his entire career. with a ton more pressure on him by the media and fans to succeed. that along with carrying the league as its poster boy

duncan was always flying under the radar. he was never interesting or popular among most nba fans.

duncans boring.. obviously i respect the guy and i like solid fundamentals. but it wasnt really something people bought into


i give way more respect to guys who could take the ultimate pressure and succeeded.

but if you really wanna get down to it


5 championships > 4 championships ( kobe )
7 finals > 5 finals ( kobe )
1 mvp < 2 mvps ( duncan )
2 fmvps < 3 fmvps ( duncan )
4 ASG mvps > 1 ASG mvp ( kobe )
2 olympic gold medals > 1 bronce ( kobe )
16 allstar games > 14 allstar games ( kobe )
11 first team all nba's > 10 first team all nba's ( kobe )
9 first team all defense's > 8 first team all defense's ( kobe )
2 scoring titles > 0 scoring titles ( kobe )
25ppg career > 20ppg career ( kobe )
81 point career high > 53 point career high ( kobe )
35ppg career high > 25ppg career high ( kobe )



4-2 head to head in the playoffs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQxgHgRh95Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP1gQWrEGdE


kobe has more 60 point games than duncan has 50 point games

kobe has more 50 point games than duncan has 40 point games

kobe has more 40 point games than duncan has 30 point games



its actually disturbing how much more dominant on offense kobe is..



offense

kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> duncan



defense

duncan > kobe by a hair



then factor in kobe has 40+ game winning shots.. duncan might have what? 5...


its not even close.. but add this

Sporting News NBA Athlete of the Decade (2000s)[94]
TNT NBA Player of the Decade (2000s)[95]
Sports Illustrated Top 20 Male Athlete of the Decade (2000s) #7 (the only NBA player in the top 10)[97]
Ranked #1 in Dime Magazine's 2012 list of the top 10 greatest players since the year 2000 (published in the September 2012 issue)[99]



want me to go on?

You just said far worse stats.

Duncan in the Playoffs: 21.9 PPG / 12.0 RPG / 3.2 APG / 2.4 BPG
Kobe in the Playoffs: 25.6 PPG / 5.1 RPG / 4.7 APG / 1.4 SPG

Duncan is the clear winner there, son.

And you just used All-Star Game MVPs as a part of your formula :facepalm

And then you used scoring stats....why don't I just compare their rebounding numbers? :facepalm

What Duncan did in '03 is greater than any 40 point streak Kobe achieved...let's be real.

[HOoopCityJones]

You just said far worse stats.

Duncan in the Playoffs: 21.9 PPG / 12.0 RPG / 3.2 APG / 2.4 BPG
Kobe in the Playoffs: 25.6 PPG / 5.1 RPG / 4.7 APG / 1.4 SPG

Duncan is the clear winner there, son.

And you just used All-Star Game MVPs as a part of your formula :facepalm

And then you used scoring stats....why don't I just compare their rebounding numbers? :facepalm

Truth hurts huh?


We had 3 players (Duncan, Parker, Jackson). The Lakers had 4 (Kobe, Pau, Metta, Fisher). :facepalm

You literally didn't know who the '03 Spurs were (you though Robert Horry was a part of that squad), so how the **** would know how much talent it had? :facepalm

You can ignore Malik Rose all you want bro. Idk how you can call yourself a Spurs fan.

[T_L_P]

You can ignore Malik Rose all you want bro. Idk how you can call yourself a Spurs fan.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html

9.3 PPG...are you retarded?

[HOoopCityJones]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html

9.3 PPG...are you retarded?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html

Try again Clown.

10.4

[T_L_P]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html

Try again Clown.

10.4

Oh, I see...you're using regular season stats to skew your argument :applause:

In a title run, the Playoffs are what matters...

[MichaelCorleone]

Had the picture in OP included Tim Duncan, Kobe would look like sh1t compared to his peers. Almost a tier lower than the rest.

[HOoopCityJones]

Oh, I see...you're using regular season stats to skew your argument :applause:

In a title run, the Playoffs are what matters...

Here we go again :roll:


It's cool bro,move that goal post all you want, it's best if we don't debate.

:cheers: though.

[T_L_P]

Here we go again :roll:


It's cool bro,move that goal post all you want, it's best if we don't debate.

:cheers: though.

Why on Earth would the regular season be the thing to look at in two title winning teams?

There's no reasoning with you. You're a Laker fan who thought one of your most important players (Horry) wasn't on your team in a certain year. You think the '03 Spurs are better than the '10 Lakers...regular season or Playoffs.

[MichaelCorleone]

HOoopCityJones hijacking and derailing my thread with dumb arguments.:facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

You just said far worse stats.

Duncan in the Playoffs: 21.9 PPG / 12.0 RPG / 3.2 APG / 2.4 BPG
Kobe in the Playoffs: 25.6 PPG / 5.1 RPG / 4.7 APG / 1.4 SPG

Duncan is the clear winner there, son.

And you just used All-Star Game MVPs as a part of your formula :facepalm

And then you used scoring stats....why don't I just compare their rebounding numbers? :facepalm

What Duncan did in '03 is greater than any 40 point streak Kobe achieved...let's be real.


lol@ rebounding stats.. duncans a center


i'm pretty sure its relative to height/position..

scoring stats/records can atleast be compared between big men and guards

and ontop of kobes 25 to 20ppg advantage career... thats counting kobes first 2 years on the bench

duncan started those first 2 years.. kobe playing behind an allstar eddie jones drops kobes career average down a ton


his career average is actually 27.3ppg


but i ethered you the f*ck out already lmao i'm satisfied with my last response

[Prometheus]

Here we go again :roll:


It's cool bro,move that goal post all you want, it's best if we don't debate.

:cheers: though.

If we use regular season instead of playoff stats, then Andrew Bynum's numbers jump way up and the '09/'10 Lakers are once again "stacked"... so have it your way :D

[T_L_P]

lol@ rebounding stats.. duncans a center


i'm pretty sure its relative to height/position..

scoring stats/records can atleast be compared between big men and guards

and ontop of kobes 25 to 20ppg advantage career... thats counting kobes first 2 years on the bench

duncan started those first 2 years.. kobe playing behind an allstar eddie jones drops kobes career average down a ton


his career average is actually 27.3ppg


but i ethered you the f*ck out already lmao i'm satisfied with my last response

Ha, you said stats...I posted them. And that doesn't even include things not measured by stats (defense, mainly), which Duncan destroys Kobe in.

Why did you round Duncan's 22 PPG down to 20 PPG? What's your agenda?

Kobe chose to come out of high school. He now has inflated totals because of it. You can't pick and chose his statlines.

And if you are, we need to take away Duncan's last 2-3 post-seasons because he's older than Kobe and thus his stats are worse.

[StrongLurk]

The thing about this graph is it actually does favor LEBRON, even though Jordan is the better player. The only way Lebron can get close to Jordan is through winning championships and LONGEVITY. I mean if Lebron can get something like 5 MVPS and 5 championships, and have more points rebounds and assists totals than Jordan, then I wouldn't have a problem putting Lebron on Jordan's level. I mean we KNOW Jordan is the better player and Lebron has a long way to go, but just the fact that Lebron put up 31/7/7 before the age Jordan came into the league isnt a knock on Lebron, which some posters seem to think is:banghead:

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Kobe doesn't belong in that picture.

[MichaelCorleone]

The thing about this graph is it actually does favor LEBRON, even though Jordan is the better player. The only way Lebron can get close to Jordan is through winning championships and LONGEVITY. I mean if Lebron can get something like 5 MVPS and 5 championships, and have more points rebounds and assists totals than Jordan, then I wouldn't have a problem putting Lebron on Jordan's level. I mean we KNOW Jordan is the better player and Lebron has a long way to go, but just the fact that Lebron put up 31/7/7 before the age Jordan came into the league isnt a knock on Lebron, which some posters seem to think is:banghead:
We all know MJ is the GOAT.

Lebron still have the potential to be 2nd GOAT and is on comfortable pace.

The only obvious thing is how far Kobe is from both of them.

[Illuminati]

So basically it shows us what everybody already knew, Jordan > LeBron > Kobe.

[Deuce Bigalow]

MJ did not team up to win those rings, neither did Kobe. So why are we comparing them?

[NumberSix]

MJ did not team up to win those rings, neither did Kobe. So why are we comparing them?
MJ and Kobe didn't play on teams? :wtf:

[OldSchoolBBall]

People need to get over it.

You REALLY think if Jordan or Lebron played with prime Shaq would get FMVP over him? Never.

Jordan certainly would get Finals MVP over Shaq at times. Jordan could EASILY put up a series of like 35/7/8+ ast/53+% FG against, for example, the '02 Nets playing with prime Shaq.

[pauk]

3 > 1 > 2*

:confusedshrug:

Unlike Lebron/MJ none of those 3 Kobe championships came in that same fashion, performance & role as the best player MVP/FMVP of the team and best player in the league.

[ArbitraryWater]

Why even have Kobe in there? Not a fair comparison.

[Prometheus]

MJ did not team up to win those rings, neither did Kobe. So why are we comparing them?

The lose/lose is just unbelievable. Everyone knows that Cleveland would never have been able to put a championship-caliber team around LeBron. So then he would remain ringless no matter how great he became. But since he left to go live in a beautiful climate and play with his best friends, somehow the championships don't count. Unbelievable.

[HOoopCityJones]

The lose/lose is just unbelievable. Everyone knows that Cleveland would never have been able to put a championship-caliber team around LeBron. So then he would remain ringless no matter how great he became. But since he left to go live in a beautiful climate and play with his best friends, somehow the championships don't count. Unbelievable.

This type of shit is crazy to say about a what? 50-60 win Team?

If he had NOBODY they wouldn't of been considered the best those two or three years. :confusedshrug:

[Deuce Bigalow]

This type of shit is crazy to say about a what? 50-60 win Team?

If he had NOBODY they wouldn't of been considered the best those two or three years. :confusedshrug:
Back to back 60+ win teams that had the best record in the league. He could have had free agents come to him. Who leaves your franchise during your prime fresh of back to back best records in the league?

[HOoopCityJones]

Back to back 60+ win teams that had the best record in the league. He could have had free agents come to him. Who leaves your franchise during your prime fresh of back to back best records in the league?

They love to ignore the context.

Like we're just irrational saying homie left his squad while they sucked like dirt, and that's why we see him as a chump, no. Bro left a Top Team in the league to Team up with a conference rival and Draftmates.

Wade was a Top 3 or 4 player and Bosh was a Top 8 PF.

[Prometheus]

This type of shit is crazy to say about a what? 50-60 win Team?

If he had NOBODY they wouldn't of been considered the best those two or three years. :confusedshrug:

They were only a 60 win team because of LeBron. The rest of those teams sucked and you know it.

[NumberSix]

They love to ignore the context.

Like we're just irrational saying homie left his squad while they sucked like dirt, and that's why we see him as a chump, no. Bro left a Top Team in the league to Team up with a conference rival and Draftmates.

Wade was a Top 3 or 4 player and Bosh was a Top 8 PF.
Cleveland is obviously an incompetent franchise. Is there a person alive disputing this?

[Prometheus]

Cleveland is obviously an incompetent franchise. Is there a person alive disputing this?

"They won 60+ games, which is obviously because they had a great roster and not because LeBron carried a bunch of scrubs."

[Calabis]

Jordan or LeBron wouldn't have won an mvp with prime shaq if they were the same age as kobe :confusedshrug: well maybe if shaq didn't leave and they had a good team in their primes

And Kobe wouldn't have 3 chips(Shaq), if he was stuck on a shitty team like Jordan and James were at the start of their careers

[Kingwillball]

Magic the GOAT at age 29, 5 rings 8 finals appearances appearances :bowdown: ::bowdown:


If LEbron can bUmp his career assist average up into the 7's that will looks even more impressive if his career average is 27.1,7.2,7.5 when its said and done.

[Calabis]

Come on son , you know my boy was robbed.

:confusedshrug: Either way, Kobe Doesn't blow clutch lay ups vs SHANE BATTIER ina Final either.

He torch guys like that. :pimp:

Your right, instead he blows an entire series and gets swept by the Mavericks

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kobe if in the same context as LeBron pre 2013, or MJ pre 1992 at the ages of 29 without a Shaquille O'Neal?

Would definitely have better stats. Still wouldn't have any MVPs, and would definitely not have 3 championships.

It's kind of obvious, that even if tied for MJ as most skilled of the three, he's the worst player of these three guys in terms of both individual production and it's affect on winning team basketball.

[D-FENS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BcyLECqCUAAtGOL.jpg:large

If you're comparing, you should start from the same age. I'm not a fan of any of these guys, but it's a stupid comparison

Also, MJ and Kobe won with the only teams they had ever played for, no piggy-backing

[Calabis]

Kobe if in the same context as LeBron pre 2013, or MJ pre 1992 at the ages of 29. Would definitely have better stats. Still wouldn't have any MVPs, and would definitely not have 3 championships. It's kind of obvious, that even if tied for MJ as most skilled of the three, he's the worst player of these three guys.

:applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe if in the same context as LeBron pre 2013, or MJ pre 1992 at the ages of 29. Would definitely have better stats. Still wouldn't have any MVPs, and would definitely not have 3 championships. It's kind of obvious, that even if tied for MJ as most skilled of the three, he's the worst player of these three guys.
Wait how do you know this? Give Kobe a good defensive team like Lebron had in Cleveland especially 07 and Kobe would get MVPs and scoring titles, and I think he could have won a ring with Lebron's 07 cast given the competition that year and if he is at least 22 years old. His team would be locking the opposition down including his ability to play defense better than Bran and on offense you already know what he brings.

[Asukal]

rebounding

court vision

basketball IQ

athleticism

Lebron is better than MJ at all of the above too.

All debatable except for the bolded...

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[catquickspider]

They also all have very similar story lines as well.

MJ lost many times to detroit and boston before he created his 'super team' to finally get over the hump.

Kobe also lost many times to the Kings and Spurs before a combination of Kobe/Shaq/Rick Fox/Horry etc finally got over the hump too

Lebron was 'owning' his conference before the big 3 teamed up (KG, PP, Ray) and he then needed his own team to eventually win it all as well.

That is not similar at all.

Lebron was the only one that needed a super team to win.


It's kind of obvious, that even if tied for MJ as most skilled of the three, he's the worst player of these three guys in terms of both individual production and it's affect on winning team basketball.

is that why Kobe has more rings than Jabron?

Jabron's impressive stats have led to 2 rings and needed a super team to do it. Kobe won 2 rings with a lesser team and with less impressive stats.

stats don't tell the whole story

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wait how do you know this? Give Kobe a good defensive team like Lebron had in Cleveland especially 07 and Kobe would get MVPs and scoring titles, and I think he could have won a ring with Lebron's 07 cast given the competition that year and if he is at least 22 years old. His team would be locking the opposition down including his ability to play defense better than Bran and on offense you already know what he brings.
That's actually a really solid point. You came correct. I flip flop on these two admittedly, all the time on their rank, or standing in the game's history.

Kobe's game compared to Bron pre 2012 was more conducive, even at comparable young ages of say early 20's to winning basketball in the playoffs. His scoring skill, post game, jumper, foot work, mid range junior mints version of Jordan's game is where you win in the playoffs.

And where LeBron was exposed in the 2007 Finals, 2008 v.s. Boston, 2010 v.s. Boston, and the final straw ... the 2011 Finals.

Where as LeBron's style pre 2012 before he developed a form of a mid range / post game was more built for putting up crazy regular season stats, being a ball dominant super freak athlete PG / SF hybrid.

I have a tough time deciding between these two. Both are great, and both kind of let downs at times or in certain situations. Kobe v.s. LeBron will be historically tough to decide. I don't see LeBron winning any rings after this year. It will be extremely difficult even this year. I doubt he gets 5. Kobe's got the rings, Bron's got the MVPs. It's tough. It's similar to the dichotomy between Magic and Jordan, before MJ ended the debate by also winning a ton of championships.

There may never be a definitive answer between Kobe v.s. LeBron. Just preference at the end of the day. Both kind of have odd arguments over one another in different circumstances. Both have had massive success, both have had massive failures. LeBron's the team first guy in playing style, but has more individual accolades. Kobe, the more selfish player actually has more team success ... even being able to fit his talents into an all-time great team as a second option facilitator.

[catquickspider]

That's actually a really solid point. You came correct. I flip flop on these two admittedly, all the time on their rank, or standing in the game's history.

Kobe's game compared to Bron pre 2012 was more conducive, even at comparable young ages of say early 20's to winning basketball in the playoffs. His scoring skill, post game, jumper, foot work, mid range junior mints version of Jordan's game is where you win in the playoffs.

And where LeBron was exposed in the 2007 Finals, 2008 v.s. Boston, 2010 v.s. Boston, and the final straw ... the 2011 Finals.

Where as LeBron's style pre 2012 before he developed a form of a mid range / post game was more built for putting up crazy regular season stats, being a ball dominant super freak athlete PG / SF hybrid.

I have a tough time deciding between these two. Both are great, and both kind of let downs at times or in certain situations. Kobe v.s. LeBron will be historically tough to decide. I don't see LeBron winning any rings after this year. It will be extremely difficult even this year. I doubt he gets 5. Kobe's got the rings, Bron's got the MVPs. It's tough. It's similar to the dichotomy between Magic and Jordan, before MJ ended the debate by also winning a ton of championships.

There may never be a definitive answer between Kobe v.s. LeBron. Just preference at the end of the day. Both kind of have odd arguments over one another in different circumstances. Both have had massive success, both have had massive failures. LeBron's the team first guy in playing style, but has more individual accolades. Kobe, the more selfish player actually has more team success ... even being able to fit his talents into an all-time great team as a second option facilitator.

good post

it will be interesting how Lebron does next year with a lesser team and his age catching up to him

[Lebron23]

I think if Lebron wins his 3rd finals MVP. This is no longer a worthy comparison.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I think if Lebron wins his 3rd finals MVP. This is no longer a worthy comparison.
In pure resume? Sure. But in context? Not necessarily. Especially considering how he won his rings, who they came with, the relative total vacuum sucking up all meaningful competition on the way to a ring in a historically weak conference with major injuries.

This season, with Indiana staring them down for an epic trilogy rematch in the conference finals. Given how stacked they are, and possessing all the tools that is Miami's greatest weaknesses. LeBron will have to perform on a legendary scale to win this year.

2014's ring, if LeBron and co win it again will hold the most weight IMO out of all of them. 2011 would've been their best had he not gone on ghost status because he was shook for not having a reliable mid range / post game to score against great defense.

[Miller for 3]

Mj and Kobe won all of their rings as the main scoring options. Lebron's .5 rings came as Wade's sidekick, and most of the time is the Batgirl to Wade and Bosh. The Cavs won 0 rings before Lebron, and 0 with him. The Heat won 1 ring without Lebron, and .5 in spite of him.

[Deuce Bigalow]

That's actually a really solid point. You came correct.

Kobe's game compared to Bron pre 2012 was more conducive, even at comparable young ages of say early 20's to winning basketball in the playoffs. His scoring skill, post game, jumper, foot work, mid range junior mints version of Jordan's game is where you win in the playoffs.

And where LeBron was exposed in the 2007 Finals, 2008 v.s. Boston, 2010 v.s. Boston, and the final straw ... the 2011 Finals.

Where as LeBron's style pre 2012 before he developed a form of a mid range / post game was more built for putting up crazy regular season stats, being a ball dominant super freak athlete PG / SF hybrid.

I have a tough time deciding between these two. Both are great, and both kind of let downs at times or in certain situations. Kobe v.s. LeBron will be historically tough to decide. I don't see LeBron winning any rings after this year. It will be extremely difficult even this year I doubt he gets 5. Kobe's got the rings, Bron's got the MVPs. It's tough. It's similar to the dichotomy between Magic and Jordan, before MJ ended the debate by also winning a ton of championships.
Comparing them individually I just don't think Lebron was as good as Kobe because I can't imagine a team giving Kobe wide open jumpers like Lebron had in the 2013 Finals. Here was James at his peak averaging 57%FG for the season but shoots 45% while being open? Lets remember that Lebron could not score for the first couple games of that series. It wasn't until game 4 that he scored over 20 points. This is supposed to be peak Lebron he didn't impress me enough to be better than Kobe. And before someone posts his stats in games 6 and. 7, save it because I watched those games and he was shook in game 6 being 3/14 thru 3 quarters if I remember correctly and for some reason I don't know why Popovich rests his starters for the start of the 4th (biggest mistake that cost them the series imo) instead of going for the kill and Lebron got going. And Game 7 Lebron put up huge numbers but he finally started hitting those open jumpers the spurs were giving him, he must have nailed at least 5 wide open 3s that game. And I know they give him room because he is such a good driver to the basket, but still not impressed enough. I feel that Kobe's game is not limited like Lebron's. Sure Kobe can shoot bad sometimes but even with that, his offensive game is stronger than Lebron's given his superiority on the perimeter.